A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1

Caput 3, Diuis. 1.

THat the reader may have clearer light / to judge of our writings on both sydes in the rest off this controversy / and that we may be better furnished of weapons / against this great leuie off pretended authorities; two questions seem necessary to be decided / before we come unto them. The one / whether the word off God hath ordained that in every several congreation there should be a bishop: which the Answ. doth flatly deny / and further saith / yt appeareth out off certain ecclesiastical writers, and the exampels off Timothy, and Titus, that the Apostles appointed bishops, only in principal towns and cities. The other is / whether there were allowed in one city / 2. or moe bishops: which likewise he flatly denieth can be shown to have been from Christ •• time, and that the whole practice off the prymitiue church is against yt. If thes things be shown to have been ordained off the Apostles: yt must follow that this institution off God / banished by Satan / owght to be called home / an that all authority off men / and custom exalted against this / must yealde thē selves prisoners. Likewise if these be shown / the truth of expositiō of the testimonies of the moste ancient writers / shall better appear: whereby we have shute the bishoplike authority in the circuit / and roundell of one church: which the Ans. would have extended unto a realm / or diocese. And so shall come to pas / that they which having all their senses possessed of the custom of thes later / and corrupter times / when they read or hear off a bishop in the scripture / or in the moste aunciēte writers / conceive forthwith a bishop of the same mould that ours be / shall a great deal easilier correct their error. For if a bishop in the Apostles time / and off their institution / was the bishop off one church only: by all likelihood those times which followed next after them / kept them nearest unto that image: whereupon will fall out / that this usurped authority of bishops over their fellow ministers / did by little and little increase / according to the measure of time further from that wherein thapostels lived / and nearer unto that wherein Antichrist was fully settled. which things although they have light enough in them selves: yet to clear this matter better / there shall be (God willing) set down certain testimonies of the most ancient times: whereby as by certain traces / the truth off thes things may be easilier found owt.

The first that every particular church should have her bishhop / is manifest by Paul to Timothy. For seeing the description of a bishop which he giveth / doth agree unto the minister of every congregation / and nothing there required in the one / which is not in the other: it followeth that the minister off every congregation / is the bishop thereof. For the description agreing with every of them: the things described must likewise. Secondly / unless he do by this description off the bishop / set forth the nature off every minister of the word in his congregation: in describing the offices off the church / he hath left owt the principalest members / and was more careful in describing the Deacons ministry / not occupied in the word / then the preaching ministries, but that is absurd: yt must follow / that he understood them by the name off bishop. Furthermore S. Paul's bishop was appointed to the same place / whereunto his Deacons: but his Deacons were assigned to a particular congregation / as appeareth both by the use of the scriptures / and also by that after this corruption entered / that every church had not her bishop: yet it had her Deacons / as is to be seen by that alleged of the Deacons off the churches off Mariotes. S. Paul also there assigning the charge / and care of the bishop / over the church of God / must ether give him charge over the whole body of the catholic church: or over one particular congregation: or of the faithful company of one house. but he extendeth not his charge over all the Catholic church / for that were to make a Pope / not a bishop: nor restraineth him to the faithful of one howshoulde / considering that he opposeth the government off his house / to the government of the church: yt followeth therefore that he appointeth him to one particular church. That by this word church / must be understanded one of thes three significacions / yt standeth upon this ground: that in none off S. Paul's other Epistles / or S. Luke's writings / that word church is ever used otherwise / and never signifieth the church ether off Province / or Dioces. For when the Apostles utter the company off believers in such a circuit: they always speak in the plural number / and call them the churches of such / and such a place. And if it can be shown that this word is taken in them / for the faithful in a whole province / or diocese: I will give over the hold of this argument. If (as I persuade myself) that cannot be doon: then the church assigned unto S. Paul's bishop / is a particular congregation.

Moreover S. Paul writing to Tite / to appoint Elders through every town / which were unblameable: addeth because a bishop must be unblameable. Wherupon ether every town must have a bishop: or his reason is not well knit. For he should both give his rule off one thing / and his reason off another: and it should come to pass / that those churches which have no bishops / might lawfully have slanderous / and spotted bishops seeing his only reason why elders of every town owght to be without reproach / is because a bishop must be so. Again where it is said that Paul / and Barnabas appointed by voice elders in every church / ether beside the ancients off the church the Bishop was ordained: or else the famous cities of Antioch / I conium / and Listra / in the number of those churches there mentioned / received no bishop. But the Ans. him self affirmeth / that the Apostles ordained bishops, in the principal cities, and towns: therefore under thes words ▪ they ordained elders by voice in every church, ys understanded that they ordained bishops in every church. For S. Luke using the same words to set for the the ministry off all other churches / wherewith he settethe forth the ministry off those famous cities / unless he will deny there were Bishops there: he must off necessity grant / that the other churches had their bishops as well as they.

Last off all unless yt be the institution off God / that every particular congregation should have her bishop: in that largies / and bountiful liberality of ecclesiastical ministers / which S. Paul showeth our Savior Christ bestowed upon his church after he was ascended / nothing falleth to the lot of the partilar churches. But yt ys horrible injury unto the liberality off Christ / so to shut his hand which he opened so wide: therefore it must needs be / that our Savior Christ gave every church her Bishop as for the apostles / Evēgelistes / and Prophets / beside that their ministry was not straightened unto particular churchs: they are (as before hath been shown) ceased. There remain therefore of the ministries there reckoned / the Pastor / and Doctor: whereof whether the bishop be the same with the Pastor / as some think / or whether he contain both Pastor / and Doctor / as other some esteem: it ys manifest that ether every particular church must have a bishop ▪ or else none of those ministries there recited. For if it be said that taking a bishop for the same with a Pastor / the particular congregations having the Doctor / may have one off them / although they have no bishop: it is easy to answer / that if the Pastor most necessary / and whom the church can worst spare / do not belong: the Doctor can les be thought to appertain to a particular church. And thus far owt of the scriptures / for proof of a bishop in every particular church: yt followeth to show the traces of this institution in the primitive church / which succeeded next unto the Apostles.

The same the D. supposeth the true Ignatius / writeth thus: Every church should have her altar, and every church her bishop. And lest peradventure the D. should interpret / every church, every diocese / or province: beside that I have shown that signification of church was unknown unto those times / the authors meaning is clear to the contrary / when he saithe / every church should have her communion table, which he calleth improperly an altar. Unless therefore the D. will say / that his meaning is there should be but one communion table in a whole diocese / or province: this hole is stopped up against him. And if (as he would make us believe) this was John the apostles scholar: then amongst the testimonies of men / this may worthily bear the bell. If not (as I for my part think): yet the later he is / the longer is proved this order of having a bishop / in every particular congregation / seeing he showeth what the face off the church was / in those times when he lived. Epiphanius proving a bishop / and preaching Elder to differ (which cometh after to be examined) saith: where (not as the Pope / and the Answ. in what great city soever) there was found any worthy to be bishop, there a bishop was appointed: yea and where there was not to fournish both bishop, and preaching Elder, there the apostles made a bishop, and left the Elder. So that by his Judgment / bishops were in greater number then / then preaching Elders. That the same was also in Cyprians time / shall appear (God willing) in the places after to be handled owt off him. From his time unto the Council off Nice / we have the story of Eusebius: wherein as in a glass we may see / that the church in this point was little altered Considering that he assigneth the bishops charge / continually (for anything that ether the Ans. showeth / or I can gather) to one church / or to the churches in one city only. Which may better appear in that his bishops / are so often times called the bishop off a parish (as hath been shown) and that he confoundeth a parish with a church / a pastor with a Bishop (as shall appear): so that unless the Answ. will say / that there was in those times but one parish / church / pastor / in compass off a province / or diocese: he must be constrained to confess / that every particular church for the moste parte / had a Bishop.

And although after time of the Nicene Council / there is no doubt but that as the Bishops had more occasions of enlarging their bounds / through the disordered zeal off the godly Emperors / so they let not slip those occasions: yet if we consider the estate off the church / what yt was about 400. years after Christ: we shall find that bishops were not the tenth parte so thyn sown / as ours be now. If a bishop ran in to any slander / and the slander pressing him he could not assemble a great number of bishops: to the ende he should not remain in that slander / the Council off Carthage was off advise / that his cause should be heard off twelve bishops / and his own bishop. And another / that if an elder were accused / he might call 6. bishops frō the places hard by / and likewise a deacon three: which together with their own bishop should have authority to hear / and determine the causes in debate. Now if for every accusation of a bishop / there were assembled 12. bishops at the least / and that when the matter required haste: for every accusation of an elder six / and off a Deacon three / beside their own bishop: and that those might be taken in places hard by: all men may understand / that there was more neighbourhood in bishops then is now / and that yt behooved that those bishops dwelte within no great compass / which might be assembled with such commodity. For if we should imagine the same condition off bishops then / which is now: how evil advised should the Council have been / to cause so many bishops to come so far / with so great charges / with such longe absence from their churches / with such delaie / and suspense off the purgation off them / whose speedy dispatche stood so greatly upon the glory off God / and edification of their churches? Herof yt may easily be seen / that this blessing and gift of God in having off a bishop / rained not only upon great cities / and great towns: but even over little borowghes / and villages where there was a sufficient congregation / hable to maintain this ministry off the word.

And although there be diverse causes / why the ancient stories do not so often make mention / of the bishops of uplandish towns / as that in those times of persecution / a number off them did scarcely yield one sufficient company / hable to maintain the ministry off the word: and that by all likelihood the countrymen rownde about / made their resort unto the good towns next them / which had a bishop: and for that the stories for the moste parte / keep the memory only of the moste famous bishops / which by godly policy off the church / were placed in the moste peopled towns: yet notwithstanding yt ys not hard to show diverse / which are expressedly called bishops off small towns / or villages. As off one Zor • cus Bishop of the village of Coman: of Mares / Bishop of a small town / called Dolicha: of Asclepius / Bishop of a small town in Africa; and of others / which partly I have already shown out off the testimony off Jerome / and partly shall be shown (God willing) in discouse off Cyprians testimonies. I leave also to speak of Gregory / bishop of a small city / called Naz • anzum: of another which was priest of the Castle Cumane / that is Bishop: both which are as well forbidden / as to have a bishop in a village. I followeth to show upon what causes / and by what means the church so fruictfull in Bishops became afterward so barren. whereof albeit yt is moste certain / that the principal cause was the wrath off the lord / who angry with his church / sent such a dearthe: yet the doings off men which God had disposed of wisely / for the accomplishement of his counsel touching the man of sin / were partly unadvised / partly proceeding off ambition: and that not always after one sort / but taking increase / and gathering strength with the time. So that the ambition which at the first was kept in some awe / and restraincte / in the ende brake out / and shown yt self as yt were bare faced.

In the African Council / yt appeareth that before a certain law made of the Emperor / wheresoerver and in what diocese soever there was a church off Donatists converted unto the Catholic church / that those proselytes / and conuertes had a Bishop of their own: and the Council there confessethe / that they deserved so to have. Wherupon yt folowethe / that how many churches so ever off the Donatists were converted: so many Bishops at the lease / there might be in one only diocese. And if this were a good law and equal (as the Council confessethe): what cause can be assigned / why yt should be taken away / as appeareth yt was afterward? In the second Council of Carthage yt was decreed / that those dioceses which had no bishops should have none: and those which had / should keep their proper Bishop Notwithstanding if the number off the faithful should increase in that diocese / that the people desyring a Bishop / if the bishop of the diocese consented thereunto / might have another bishop. Now in that the Council ordained that there should be no bishops in that diocese / where there had been none: yt is apparāte that their dioceses were not the twētithe parte so large as ours. For is there any likelihood / considering the number off the bishops before proved / that the Council would decree that there should be no bishop within 30. or 40. miles / as it is with us? And when it ordeineth that in that diocese where there was a bishop already / the number of the faithful increasing / there might be at the instance off the churches / and consent of the bishop other bishops ordained: yt uttereth the cause why diverse parishes round about / were the diocese of one bishop: namely for that here and there / in this and that town / there was scarce gleaned out a sufficient number / off those which having given their names to the gospel / were hable to make one sufficient congregatiō to maintain the ministry. And therefore ordained / that whē the harueste of the faithefull should be more plentiful in those places: then also counsel might be taken / off moe Bishops.

Wherupon we may gather / this to have been a cause of this scarcity / that it being left always in the discretion off the Bishop / whether he would have any moe Bishops: through Ambicion yt came to pass / that the number off Christians increasing / they would not suffer the people to have moe bishops / but ordaining them Elders / and Deacons / together with the name off the Bishop / retained unto them selves a great parte off the authority / and government to other belonging. And this ys that which that excellent Martyr of God William Tyndale / shortly noted: when the multitude off Christians increased, and the church was endowed with great possessions: the bishops made thē substitutes, which they called priests, and kept the name of Bishop unto them selves. And how vnhappely it was left in the Bishops choice / ether to suffer another bishop to be instituted or no / in his diocese: may appear by this shameful ambition / which even thē began to show yt self. For so far was yt / that they would depart with any already gotten: that they assayed to encroche (and sometimes by strong hand) upon the bounds off others: as appeareth by the manifold debates / which they had one with another / about their precinctes / testified in the book of Councils.

Another cause off this dearthe was / an order taken amongst thē / that where in Afric there were great swarms of Donatiste heretics / and other strangers from the churches: as every Bishop gained those foreners unto the church / so he enjoyed them. Which thing extended not only unto every ones own diocese: but also to other dioceses / if the other Bishop were somewhat sluggishe in that behalf. which what a great prophanacion yt was of the gifts of God / no man of any judgment in the word of God / can be ignorant. For seemeth it a meet thing / that for the blessing off God given unto their preaching / they should be made rulers off all those people's which they gained? And what differeth this from simony: but that as one selleth the gifts off the holy ghost for monie / so this made march andrise off them for honor / and money both? And verily having before a competente stock / in this point they did not so much get disciples unto Christ / as to them selves: nor so much enlarge his kingdom / as their own: not do the office of pastors / as of hirelinges / and st • pendarie soldiers bente upon the spoil.

Another cause off this scarcity was / that as they provided / that there should be no bishops where were none before: so they decred / that in dioceses where there were / if after the death of the bishop / the people of that church had rather yield them selves subject unto another bishop / then choose a new: that it should be lawful for them so to do. And theruppon / yt is very like that diverse churches (when good bishops began to be rarer / then wedges of gold) seeing any one which behaved him self more tolerably: yielded them selves unto him. Not much unlike those times off the Lord's indignation / which the Prophet speaketh of / wherein a number of women laid hold off one man. Beside that it is not unlike / but the stately pomp off bishops having taken deep root) the people did not unwillingly quite the estate of a bishop: and as off an evil neighbor / and one which lay to heavy upon them / were glad to be rid off him. yt might be also the people's fault / which (as our experience teachethe to much) rather then they would beat the charge of maintaining a sufficient ministry off their own: were content to yield up their privilege off having a bishop / to receive with abatement off their charges / a ministry they cared not what.

Last of all / when Satan had lifted up the son of perdition into his fear / and had made a full conqueste off all sincerity off religion: yt was flatly decreed / that yt should not be lawful to ordain any Bishop / ether in villages / or small city: leste through the multitude / bishops should wax vile / as I have alleged in the former book. Wherupon cometh here to be considered / what ys answered: that I be not compelled there to renew this question again. His answer is / that I have falstfied the place, that I have not redd the Epistle, that if I had, having any modesty I would never have so written To let the rest goo / and withal his unworthy reproach / so often repeated / for saying Boniface to Zechariah, in stead off Zacharias to Boniface / seeing the quotation in the margent is right: I say to let thes go / consider wherein I have used falsehood Y • ys first assigned / in that where the words off the Epistle are / leste the name off a Bishop should wax vile: I said / leste they should wax vile through the multitude. If I have falsified in adding through the multitude: what truth / or faith hath the Answerer used / in adding / because the contemptiblenes off the place, often times bringeth contempt off the person? This addicion off words ys greater then mine / and no more found in the Epistle then mine: whose interpretation is more aggreable unto the mind off the writer / his that the danger off contempt was conceived by reason off the place, ormine that it was by reason off the multitude: let the reader judge.

Which that he may he may the easilier do / let it be considered what Jerome writeth / where speaking off the pride off the Deacons: he assigneth the cause that they were so much set by / to have been their fewnes / and the cause why the Elders were so light made of / because they were moe in number. For the abundance of any commodity / doth so commonly bring down the price of it / that there is no nation I think where it is not in proverb / that rare things are greatly esteemed: as contrariwise things off excellent / and necessary use / are through their multitude called vile. Which is declared there by example of Poley / a common / and vile herb in those countries: and yet for the rarenes more esteemed in India / then pepper. Of the other side where he saith / they were not placed in villages▪ or small cities, because the smallnes of the place doth make the person often times contemned, in steed that it is meet the bishop should be reverenced: by that reason there should be no minister of the word in those places at all. For it behooveth that the minister also have the reverence of his people / which becometh the embassadour / and steward off Christ: and if the bishop look for more / he pricketh at a further marck / then ever the word off God set up. But how cometh it to pass / that the bishop off Canturbery is more esteemed / then the bishop off London: and he off Winchester / then he off Norwich / if the place cause the estimation of the Bishop? When gentlemen / and noblemen build their houses more commonly in small towns / and more solitary places: doth the Ans. think that they lose any of their estimation thereby? Also by this reason it owght to be forbidden / that Justices off Peace, and Quorum should dwell in country towns / and commanded to dwell only in great towns / lest they be contemned off the people. But beside that it is contrary to the wisdom of God in the scripture: the Pagans which never saw that light / could tell that the places do not make men honorable, but men the places. And Jerome saith / the bishop off an obscure city, hath as much authority as he off the most famous. If the D. answer / that it owght to be so / but it is not / through the folie off certain: if that were granted / yet yt is unmeet that the ministry should be according to the evil disposition off certain. for then forsomuch as yowth is subject to contempt / it should be unmeet to choose a young man (of what gifts soever) unto the ministry.

Thother falsehood the Ans. chargeth me with / is / for that I gather off this canon, that in times paste there were bishops in several parishes, and small towns, when there was no bishop before off any parish. yt seemeth that his understanding cannot be so simple / but that he may perceive if there were no other proof / that those canones made so often for the forbidding of ordaining of bishops in villages / and small cities / proceeded thereof / that the churches in villages / and small cities / had their bishops as other places had. For to what purpose do they defend yt / but that yt was used? And wherefor was that law so often renewed; unless there had been resistance / and unless the churches refused to subject themselves / to such a wicked order? if men make not laws but vpō erperience of things which they mislike: how much les do they renew them again and again / but upon gainsaying? And in that Boniface which wrote unto Zacharias / had appointed those three bishops in small parishes / and towns: all understand that yt was no new thing then / to have bishops in such places. But because he closethe his eyes / and will not see things set before him: at lease let him grope them. The false Damasus / and very Antichrist / writing of this matter / inueiethe vehemently against the appointinge off Bishops in villages / which he calleth country bishops. And yt appeareth plainly in that Epistle / that they had the self same authority in all things / which city Bishops had. There he saith also / that yt was forbidden that there should be any bishop ether in small city / or in village / or Castell: leste the name and authority of a bishop / should wax vile. And therefore commandeth / that those bishops off villages being disgraded off their Bishoprics / should be thrown down to the order off preisthoode. Here the D. may understand / that even in the time off Antichrist / this order off every church having her bishop / was not so abolished / but that there were remnantes off it in diverse places / and some which maintained the liberty wherein God had sed them / against that owtrage off Satan: who because he would make off bishops young Princes / and saw that every parish was not hable to maintain that pomp / went about with robbery off the rest / to lift up the head off one. Heroff yt may be seen what cause the D. hath / to charge me with the falsifiyng of the Popes words / and how his habilite to defend the Popes decree / doth not answer his desire.

As for the reasons I brought to prove / that the placing • off bishops in villages, and small cities, could no more bring them in contempt, then the shininge of the son, or falling off the rain in villages as well as in cities, breedeth contempt off those benefits: or the name or authority of father, given to poor men as well as riche, maketh that ordinance off God nothing set by: he answereth not a word. Where I further alleged the foresight / and wisdom of God / which should receive a great wound if in instituting for every church a Bishop / he should not have foreseen this inconvenience / which the Ans. upon the Popes authority meinteineth: he askethe when and where? I have (I trust) shown him now both. although he if he had ether understood / or remembered what he wrote before twice / or thrice / when with Jerome he propoundeth unto us / that Bishop / and elder were all one by God's word: he should not have fall̄ into this extreme boldenes / of denying everything which is enemy unto his unadvised assertions. For if yt be the institution off God / that every church should have a teaching elder / and that elder (according to Jerome's saying allowed off him) were a bishop: yt must needs follow / that to have a bishop in every church / ys the institution of God. And because the D. boweth so casely under the authority of men / that he estemeth it the best proof: let him understand that this was the judgment off two of the moste famous mē / which our lande brought forth thes many years. And the same also executed for the testimony off the truth off god: whereof one of them amongst other things / suffered also for this cause now in hand.

^a The sixte Article which M. Barns was condemned for / is this: I will never believe, nor can never believe, that one man may by the law off God, be bishop off two or three cities, yea off an whole country: for that yt is contrary to the doctrine of S. Paul, which writing unto Titus, commandeth that he should ordain a bishop in every town: proving that by the word elder / the Apostle meaneth a bishop. M. Hooper showing that one man may not have two lyuinges / addeth: but this is claw me, and I will claw the. If the bishops permitted not their priests to have 2. benefices, it may fortune the priests would likewise say, the bishop should be bishop but of one city. And in deed so it should be: and till magistrates bring thē to that point, it shall he as possible to hear a bishop wade godly, and simply thorough the scripture in all case off religiō, as to drive a camel thorough the eye of a nedle. A great pity it is to see, how far the office off a bishop is degenerated, from the original in the scripture. It was not so in the beginning when bishops were at the best, as the Epistle to Tite testifieth: that willed him to ordain in every city of Crete a bishop. And in case there were such love in them now, as was then towards the people: they would say them selves, there were more to do for the best off them in one city, then he could do. They know the primitive church had no such bishops. until the time off Sylvester the first, &c. Off thes things partly / and partly of that which shall be hereafter (God willing) spoken / I leave yt to be esteemed off the indifferente reader / with how small ether knowledge / or conscience the D. hath affirmed that yt can nether be shown by scripture / nor confirmed by any ecclesiastical writer / or practice off the primitive church: that ether every church should have her bishop / or that there should be bishops in villages / and small Cyties.

Thother off the two questions remaineth / whether yt can be shown by scripture / and by examples off the primative church ▪ that there were in one church moe bishops then one. which we might in parte have been eased off / if the answ. having fallen out with the truth / were not likewise fall̄ out with him self. For he approving off the testimony off Jerome / which affirmeth elders / and Bishops all one / and that the elders off a church chose one amōgeste them / which only kept the name of bishop: doth withal necessarily affirm / that before the time that this ordinance was established / there were diverse bishops in one church. And in saying the word bishop is not commonly used / but for him that in degree is above the rest: he at unawares confesseth / that there were diverse bishops in some churches / although not commonly. But because he hath a faculty in denying / and affirming without showing any reason / and that his word is no bond to tie him with all / when yt maketh against him: some thing also must be spoken / touching this matter. And seeing I have shown that he is by S. Paul's determination / a Bishop / which is ap • e to teache / and to exhort / to convince false doctrine / and reprove corrupt manners; and that the Ans. cannot deny but one such always is not sufficient / for some churches especially where the commodity of assemblies is so good / that every day the word off good ys to be preached: yt cannot be denied but that there both may / and owght to be moe bishops in a church (much more in a city) then one.

And that this was the institution off God / it appeareth by the practice of the churches in thapostels times: at Philippos / where Paul expressly / saluteth diverse bishops: at Ephesus / frō whence certain bishops sent for / came to Miletū. Likewise in the church off Thessalonica there were diverse Presidentes / the same (by the D. divinity) that Bishop / or Archbishop. And as it was in those churches: so yt ys like to have been in other off great resort to hear the word off God / and ability to enterteine a more plentiful ministry. Nether let him (as he is wont) oppose unto the manifest words off the scripture / Ambroses exposition upon the place to the Philippians / nor that which goeth under Jerome's name upon the same. For as for Ambrose / a child may see how violently he forceth the text: and what inconvenience he runnethe into / to make yt agree with the custom off his times / wherein this order was for the moste parte / worn owt. And as for the other / he is a coūterfaicte / and so marked not only because he contrarieth that which Jerome did plainly teache: but also for that the form off writing / is far off another complexion.

Yt cannot be denied but that this order of God was strickē at by diverse canons off Councils / and that as this was the first attempt / which the devil gave to abridge the number off Bishops in the church: so yt was more ancient then that other / off robbing the villages / and small Cyties off their bishops. Upon what rotten grounds this abuse crept in / cometh afterward to be considered: here yt is to be noted that this corruption was not so general / but that often times yt admitted exception. And notwithstanding both custom / and Canons in that behalf: good men upon occasion made no conscience / to ordain two bishops of one city. Euseb. maketh mention of Narcissus / and Alexander Bishops at ones in one parish. and if yt be true which he reporteth / that the same was by revelation from heaven: yt ys a good argument / that this voice was as yt were a repeal off that custom / which had been brought in contrary to the first institution off God. Yt is writ̄ off Augustine / that he was made bishop off Hippo / both by the instant request off Valerius / then another bishop there / and by the consent off the Metra politane Bishop off Carthage. And albeit in consideration off the canons made to the contrary / Augustine was loath to take the charge: yet instantly required / he accepted yt. Augustine him self also was off advise / that in those places where was a Donatiste Bishop / and a catholic / if the Donatiste returned unto the unity of the church / then he should be received into the fellowship off the bishops office with the catholic bishop. Where he putteth only thes exceptions / if the people will suffer yt: if because yt is not accoustomed, the people will bear it. Whereby is clear / that notwithstanding it was forbid̄ by canons: yet he thought yt not unmeet / to have two bishops in one church / if the people would bear it. and if he were of this advise / notwithstanding the councils to the contrary: how much more would he have thought it meet if the church had required / and made suit for it?

Also it is not to be forgotten / that although this corruption off giving the name bishop to one in a church / from the rest to whom it did off right belong / be ancient: yet godly men misliked it / and by all likelihood broke it of. Which Jerome's words do apparently import: this custom was in the church off Alexandria from S. Mark, until Heraclas, and Dionysius. For unless there were some change then: why would he not rather have said / from S. Mark until his time? considering that all that time / there was continual succession of church / and bishops. Therefore belike those godly men / seeing the mischief like to ensue of that custom / and understanding that things owght to be called to the apostolick institution: changed that custom. Furthermore it is diligently to be considered / that this order off having one only in every church to have the name of Bishop / overspread not the church soudenly / and at a clap / but entered by little and little: so that it is like there were diverse ages past / or ever this had a general passage / thorough all the churches in the world. By all which it may appear / how the Ans. is abused in saying / it cannot be shown from Christ's time, that ever there were two bishops in one church. Thes things being thus laid / let us now come to Cyprians Testimonies.

Caput 3.

VNto the first division / I have answered. In the second / to prove that Cyprian speakethe off an Archbishop / the D. concludeth thus. yt is the principal office of the archbishop, to provide that peace, and unity be kept in the church, &c. but the office off him whom Cyprian describeth, is to keep peace in the church: therefore Cyprian speaketh of an archbishop. This argument is caste in the same moulde that those / which he hath untruly compared my reason unto before: and yt hath almost more faults / then words. But that the simplest may see his dealing / yt is to be understanded / that as the pretence off institution off the Archbishop was to keep peace / and suppress schisms: so the only pretence off translating the name off bishop / from many in one church unto one only / was the same: as appeareth by the place off Jerome after discussed. To let pass therefore that I have proved / and will after more appear / that there was then nether Archbishop / nor Metropolitan / and for disputation sake to imagine Archbishops then: yet when both the name / and office Cyprian speaketh of / agree unto him which governeth in every church / or (to speak as the D. speaketh) diocese: and the office only without the name / agreethe to the Archbishop: yt must needs be meeter • o refer Cypcians words to the Bishop / then to the Archbishop / seeing that there be more cords off reasons to pull them that ways / then the other. At the lease yt is clear / that the Argument off the A. is faulty: seeing yt was not only the principal office off the Archbishop / to provide for peace / &c. but the same also was the principal office off the Bishop / as that under pretence whereof / that kind off Bishop was instituted.

Where he cometh to his old hole / that although the name be not there, yet the office is: I refere myself unto that written before in that be half. Howbeit here yt appeareth how he spake without book / saying all writers before the Nicene Council, make mention both off their names, and offices: when as Cyprian one off them / hath no word off them. Where he saithe Cypr. speaketh off Cornelius, who had government off all the province: that is the question / which because he could not prove / he taketh granted. Where he addeth Cyprian had the charge, and oversight off all churches in Africa, and for proof alledgeth the 4. book, 8. Epistle: he is abused / for Cyprian doth say no such thing. He speaking there off himself / and off his fellow bishops assembled in Council / saithe in this sort: but because our province is spread forth larger, and hath both Numidia, and Mauritania joining. he saith not my province, but our province: which is manifestly referred unto all the bishops assembled / as the course off the epistle declareth. Nether doth he there speak off any jurisdiction / or oversight which he had more then another Bishop: nether yet off two Mauritanias / as the D. saith / but off one only. Yt appeareth therefore that the water where he drew this / was trowbled: and from whence soever he have yt / Eusebius is off more credit in that matter. Who speaking of Cyprians large dominion / shutteth him with in the precinctes of Carthage: saying / he was bishop of the parish which was in Carthage. And allthowgh it be clear that Cyprian had no such jurisdiction / yet to the end this unfaithful dealing may better appear / let it be considered what was the estate off the church in Africa / about 150. yares after: when there were Metrapolitanes which had oversight over Provinces / and this weed of Ambitiō had spread yt self much further in the church. In the Council of Afric yt appeareth / that Aurelius which longe after succeeded Cyprian in the church of Carthage / had not him self any jurisdiction over ether Mauritania / or Numidia: for that as he was bishop off the first seat off that province wherein Carthage was: so Xantippus was Bishop of the first in Numidia / and Nicetius of the first in Mauritania. I omit that Mauritania was divided from Carthage by sea: so that (contrary to the D. interpretation) men must have passed the sea for decision off causes. Whereby appeareth what a fable yt is / that Cyprian was Metropolitan off those three provinces / when everyone had a several Metropolitan.

Where he citeth Gregory Nazianzen, that Cyprian ruled not only the church off Carthage, but Afric, Spain, and almost the whole easte partes: yt is to be observed / that where the D. seeketh by sea and lande / in every corner for bishops of the largest spread / and lōgest arms: at the last he hath met with one / which hath more then he would gladly should be known. for otherwise why hath he concealed the rest of Gregory's sentence? Why hath he cut of the feet off yt? why hath he pared Nazianzens words? Because I have not the book: I will set it down / as the bishop of Salisbury hath done. Cyprian was a bishop, the mightiest and noblest off all bishops. For he had rule not only over the church off Carthage, and Afric, which until this day is famous off him, and by his means: but over all the weast, and in a manner over all the East, likewise over both Northe, and Southe. Thus appeareth he hath in this place / left out both sowthe and North partes off the world / and for that the Bishop turneth weast / he turneth Spain. where if he cōplain of the bishops translatiō (although I doubt not but the bishop had reason / seeing Hesperia / is opposed unto the East): yet if it should note any one several country / yt is like to note Italy. For so Jerome writeth / that they used in times paste, to call Hesperiam Italy: especially whē it ys uttered simply / without adding utter most. now all may understand that Gregory's meaning was not / that Cyprian was ruler off all churches in the world / in that sense the D. meaneth / and that he had authority off an archbishop over all churches in the world: but that he was famous amongst all / and sought unto for coūsails frō all partes. Whereby appeareth / that the jurisdiction bishops had in times paste / out off their certain congregacions / was nothing but a reverent estimation / purchased by opiniō of singular learning / and godliness / whereby others willingly / would both ask / and follow their advise / in government off their churches.

And if the D. will have Cyprian archbishop / and Metropolitan over all thes places: let him answer what shall becomme off his exposition / whereby he would have every Archbishop in his province / to have peereles authority / without controlemēt of any other Archbishop? what off the Province of Italy, ascribed unto Cornelius? what off that whereby he saithe / none ought to go over sea, for trial off causes? for although we follow his vain off interpretation in all thes / and for a bishop understand an archbishop / for a church a Province / for the particular place where the quarrel riseth / all that circuit which is not parted by sea: yet this one assertion off his / that Cypriane was Metropolitan of almost all the Easte, Weaste, Northe, and Sowthe, overthroweth whatsoever hath been said in any off those points. For the wyde throat off Cyprians Archbishopric / hath swallowed up all the rest / and made them all but Suffragans: and by / this reckoning / not only men must pass the sea / but many seas / to have ende off their causes. Last off all / iff yt be true he beareth us in hand: let him tell us why the Bishop off Rome may not have a souueraintie over all churches / as well as he phansieth off the bishop off Carthage? considering they are in the same / and felowlike degree. Therefore unless he will overthrow all / that ever he hath gone about to establish / in this cause: and unless in trauailinge with the Archbishop / he will be delivered off a Pope / and a Pope off the largest cyse / and longest last: he must be compelled whether he will or no / to expound this word governed, by consailed, or excelled, or some other word as kolde / and as vnconfortable to the office off a Metropolitan / or archbishop.

Why Illiricus calleth him metropolitan, I have shown. He saithe I forget myself, which call him in one place metropolitā: they are selie contradictions always which he chargeth me with. For he might have remembered that I said / that this word metropolitan doth signify nothing but bishop off the chief City: in which sense I can easily aforde Cyprian to be a Metropolitan / without any great hindrance off my cause / or help off his. I pass the next diu. having nothing but importunate / and shameless begging of things in controversy. As that Cornelius had a province under him, that Cyprian was Metropolitan, that the place off Cyprian is trwly expounded off an Archbishop, that I give the Papists advantage, in saying that the place maketh as much for a Pope, as an archbishop, that is to say nothing for ether. Unto the next / I have answered where I laid open the vanity off his answer / that writers pass by the title off archbishops: saving that it is to be noted / that where the D. hath before affirmed in plain words / that the name off Pope was common to all bishops: here to give some color unto his answer / he would make us believe that the name off Pope was common not unto all, but to many bishops, &c. what M. Fox saithe in that behalf / I refer yt to the reader. That the name off Pope was common to all bishops / besides the testimonies I alleged before / may be seen in the bishop of Salisbury / and M. Beza: which both affirm the same.

As the D. could frame no argument out of Cyprians place / for the office off the archbishop / without begging: so he cannot answer the reasons against the Archbishop out off Cyprian / without the same. For where I shown that the whole people mentioned of Cyprian / being not the people of a diocese / or Province / were notwithstanding those which Cyprians bishops governed / and therefore that they were not over a diocese / or Province: he answereth that if I hadred any stories, I might understand, that bishops were chosen only by the Cytisens of that place, whereof they were called bishops, and by no other in their Province, or diocese. Which is a gross answer. For although the stories off later times (wherein yt is not denied but thes offices were) make such mentiō: yet what is that to our cause? whose controversy is whether yt were so in Cyprians times / as in times that followed. If he can show any ecclesiastical story off like auncientie with Cyprian / that maketh mention off such election: then he saith somewhat: if he cannot / he doth to much abuse the time / and the reader. And certainly if Cypriā said had no more / but the people choose thē bishops: yet (without contrary proof) he owght by all reasonable understanding / be judged to speak off all that people / over which he had government. but when he addeth all the people, he leauethe no controversy. And in the same place he saithe: for the due making of Electiōs the next bishops of that Province where the place is void, must come unto the people over whom the bishop is set: and the bishop owght to be chosen in the presence off the people. Vppon which words yt may thus be further reasoned: that people in whose presence the Bishop was chosen / was that over which the bishop was set: but the bishop was chosen in the presence off the people off one congregation: therefore the people over which the Bishop was set / was the people off one congregation. The first propositiō is manifest by Cyprians words / (the people over whom the bishop was to be set, owght to be present for election off the bishop). The seconde is also clear: forsomuch as it could not be with any convenience / that all the people off a diocese / or Province / should meet always for the choosing of their bishop / especially in time of persecution. And therein I will refer myself to the judgment of the reader / how absurdly the D. saith afterward: all the people of a province or diocese, might meet then without peril, or inconvenience. And where he saithe there were such metinges at Synods in those times: he is abused / considering that the churches met not / but their governors: and not all / but certain out off every quarter / as he might easily know by the practice off all times. For although it was not denied unto private men to be present at Councils: yet yt was very rare that they were found there in any number / unless vpō some notable controversy: and that not by appointment or order takē / as in thelectiō of their bishop / but only at their pleasure.

And if yet the D. be off that boldness / that without any proof owt of antiquity / he will expound this word all, by some, or (as he doth in the next diuis.) by many: and whole by parte, and that the smallest parte: and people by cytizens, to the open violence off Cyprians words: yet that all his starting holes may be stopped / let us further examine the place of Cyprian / out of which he would confirm the office off the archbishop. Neither have heresies, or schisms risen of other occasion, then of that the priest of God is not obeyed, nether one priest for the time in the church, and one judge for the time in steed off Christ thought vpō: to whō if the whole brotherhood would be obedient &c. To shape an archbishop / or bishop such as is with us / out of this place / the D. is compelled to expound this word church, by Diocese, or Province, Which if it be truly down: then thes words also (the whole brotherhoode) must be expounded of all those which are in the Province / or diocese. For both the whole brotherhood are those which belong unto that church: and if there should be any moe in Cyprians church / thē those contained in thes words (the whole brotherhood): yt were no remedy against heresies / and schisms / to have the whole brotherhood obedient unto the preiste. If I can therefore show / that thes words the whole brotherhood, signify only one particular assembly: yt must follow that nether Cyprians bishop is an Archbishop / nor the church there specified / a diocese / or Province / but only a particular congregation. In the next sentence therefore / yt is said: in the election off Sabinus, the bishopric was given him, by voice off the whole brotherhood. Now considering that the whole brotherhood did choose Sabinus / and yt is certain that nether the whole Province / nor diocese chose him: yt is manifest that thes words whole brotherhood, with Cyprian signify not the people off a diocese / or Province / but off one particular church.

Again in Cyprians words (heresies rise, and schisms begin, off this that the priest off God is not obeyed) is another argument to prove / that by priest must needs be understanded / the minister in every several congregation. For seeing obedience unto this priest / hindereth the beginning / and seed off both heresies / and schisms: and this cannot be if obedience be given only to one bishop in adioces / or archbishop in a Province / unless also every minister in his particular congregation be obeyed: yt must follow / that the priest Cyprian speaketh of / is the minister off every particular congregation. For otherwise the remedy against heresies / and schisms (which his words promise) doth not follow. For it is diligently to be weighed / that Cyprian saith not / heresies / and schisms therefore continue in the church / or therefore are not taken away / because the priest is not obeyed: but rise, have their seeds, and first beginning because, &c. Whereas if he would have set forth a bishop of a diocese / or archbishop of a Province: he should have said / the causes why heresies / and schisms are continued: and not why they rise. Considering that the virtue off thes offices / is fancied to compose / and decide schisms / and heresies: and that although the people be by them cured off their heresies / and schisms / when they are fallen into them: yet they cannot by their teachinges / be kept from entrance into them / being so far off / and seldom or never hearing their voice.

Moreover / as it is said here / there is one priest in the church: so in another place / there owght to be but one pastor in one place, and again / every pastor hath a portion off the floock committed unto him, whereof he must give account unto the Lord. If therefore he will not suffer this one priest in the church, to be applied to moe then the bishop off the diocese / and the archbishop off the Province: yt must follow that in Cyprians time / there were no pastors off particular churches. For one pastor / and one priest or Bishop / being all one in Cyprians language: there can be no moe off the one / then off the other. Last off all / it may appear by the council of Cathage in Cyprians time / that there were diverse Bishops off villages / and small towns. For off the number off Bishops there assembled / the names off their towns whereof they were bishops / being there set down / are scarce four / or five that are to be found (as I think) in any Cosmographer / which reckoneth up the principal cities / and towns off Africa: and namely there is express mention off one Ianuarius / bishop off a village called Caesars village. Thus I trust yt ys clear / that by one church, one priest, nether an archbishop of a Province / nor bishop off a diocese / but only a minister / or bishop off one particular congregation / is signified. Thaccusacions off passing forgery, &c. deserve no answer.

I have nowhere reasoned, that one should not be rightly chosen bishop, if any be absent that have interest in thelection: my reason is / that forsomuch as all the people off Cyprians Bishop / was by the Ecclesiastical discipline appointed to be present at his choice / and by no good order off discipline the whole diocese / or Province could be so appointed: therefore the whole people off Cyprians Bishop / was nether the people off a diocese / nor Province. And where yow have (to show the vanity of my assertion) translated almost half a side: let the reader consider to what purpose. For where he noteth that Cornelius was made bishop, by testimony of his fellow bishops thorowghowt all the world: I cannot tell for what cause he should note it. Unless yt be that because the bishops thorowghowt the world testified their agreement by letters unto his election / occasioned thereto for that Novatus denied it to be lawful: therefore it is not unlike / that the people of a whole diocese / or province were present in proper person / at the choice off the Bishop / and archbishop. And if he meant that: he is far short of his reckoning: nether is it made up by his third note / which I think tendeth to the same end. For where it seemeth that by thes words (and good men) he would have it thought there were other people beside the citizens off Rome / at Cornelius election: the words are / of ancient priests▪ and good men in the college: referring the word college, to good men / as well as to priests. So that by good men he ether meaneth those ancient priests / or some other ecclesiastical company: where the Answ. restreining college unto the Priests only / would have his reader think / that the people off the Province were gathered thither / to choose Cornelius archbishop. But this is a wonderful change / that he which before esteemed it inconvenient / that a several congregation should • meet to choose their pastor: is now brought into such streightes / that he seeketh to make the whole diocese / or Province assemble / for choice off their pastor. His other note (that Cornelius passed thorough all ecclesiastical offices, &c. unto the bishopric) is idly put. Whether a preacher was the same with a bishop: belongeth to another question / and is altogether owt of season here. For although an Elder which ruled only / were inferior unto a bishop: yet thereby followeth not / that an Elder which preached / was so. Where he saith / I falsefie Cyprian, and that yt is too great boldness to say, Priuatus was condemned by 90. Bishops of one Province: the truth is / Cyprian saith not they were off one Province. But forsomuch as Priuatus was off the same Province with Cyprian / and controversies rising in every Province / were for the moste part voided by bishops of the same: unless a general Council can be shown / a Provincial is presumed. beside that / it is unlike that Cyprian / to then tent he might draw Priuatus into greater hatred / would have omitted that circumstance off General Council / if it had been. And where he asketh / what if there were so many bishops in one Province? whether yt he cōciuded thereof / that every several congregation / had her bishop: I answer that if there were 90. Bishops in one Province off Afric / and that were observed then / which ether the moste common practice off all times hath taught / or which was ordained after ward in the Councils off Afric / that the Bishops off every Province being parted into two / or three companies / out off every off them certain should be sent in the name off the rest / whereby a greater number remained at home / then came to the council: and that be also remembered / that there were diverse places / where there were Nouatian Bishops: and further that the moste parte of towns / and cities being heathen / and Idolatrous had no bishops at all / as yt was in those days: Ad hereunto that in Stephen Bishop off Rome's time / which lived in the same time with Cyprian / there were innumerable catholic bishops: Lastly in those times of persequutions / the number off them which professed the Gospel in one town / being for the moste parte sofewe / that four or five of the next towns / were scarce sufficient to make a competent assembly / hable to maintain the ministry: I say all thes things considered / and bound up together: I think yt will appear unto the indifferente reader / that every congregaciō where the word of God was preached / and sacraments administered / had a several bishop. For if they had been such bishops as ours / although the whole world had been Christian: a little Arithmetic would have served / to count them. Where he saith / the Patriarch off Antioch, had 160. Bishoprics vndernethe him: if all those were in one only Province / I am glad to hear of it. If by a Province he mean the fourth parte of the world / the Patriarch having then gotten under his gripes / so many metropolitaneships: yt was no marvel although the bishops vndernethe him / drowned as many bishoprickes. Besides that it is ridiculous / to allege this example which was long after / against thestate of Cyprians Bishop. Where he saith / by keeping back the place off Cyprian, I give suspicion off forgery: I know not how I could have given him more particular knowledge of it, then in telling him / that yt was in the same Epistle / out off which both he alleged his sentence / and I my answer.

First I requiring authority to prove / that by the word church ys understanded a Province: he answereth all learned writers so expound yt. He dealeth but hardly which having all: will not vouchsafe to show one. for as for those which he maketh show of afterward: yt shall appear how little they serve his purpose. His next answer is / that it is no vnacustomed thing to call the church through a province, by name of the metropolitan seat of the province. If this were accoustomed / and in those times wherein Cornelius / and Cyprian lived (for otherwise yt is nothing): why doth he let his cause fall / for want of showing yt. For where he saithe / he hath shown yt before: there is no word founding that ways. And Eusebius saying that he did fulfill the office off a Bishop in the city of Rome / will not suffer the D. to lurk in that corner: unless peradventure he will say / the church in the city off Rome / was spread thorough the whole Province. And when Ruffine showeth / that the Bishop of Rome about a hundred and fifty years after (at what time the Bishops had spread the wings of their dominion) had but the churches in the suburbs / and round about Rome: is it a like thing / that Cornelius had rule off all churches of Italy? For although the custom / which the Nicene Council speaketh of / should have been even from Cornelius time: yet yt is clear / that Cornelius had not government off the churches off all Italy / but only of those in the suburbs of Rome. For answer unto thes bare / and bold sayings▪ I refer myself partly to that before spoken / that thes words must be understanded nether off Province / nor diocese / but only of particular assemblies: partly / to that which followeth.

After I saying / that forsomuch as Cornelius, said to have banished one owt of his church, could not banish him owt of the Province, therefore church and Prouīce be diverse: he answereth / though he could not banish him owt off the province, yet he might excommunicate him, frō the cōgregatiō thorowghowt the Province. wherein beside that he still presupposeth an archbishop / which is in controversy / whilst he giveth Cornelius power to excommunicate / thorough the whole Province: he is also deceived / that thinketh by thes words / is meant that Cornelius did excommunicate Felinus. For he was excommunicated before / by the Bishops off Africa: so that Cornelius had not to do / to excommunicate him. Where for confirmation of his answer / he asketh / whether he forcibly shut him owt of the local church of Rome: I answer / that if he had remembered that there were then doorekepers / to withstand those that cut from the church / would enter in: he should not have thought it so strange a thing / that Heretics were shut forth from the local church: especially seeing he seemeth to have allowed dorekepers / as officers necessary for those times. And although it were permitted unto heretics by Cornelius / and his fellows / to enter into the local church: yet he might have considered / that when they offered them selves unto the lords table / Cornelius with his assistance owght to see them removed. Seeing therefore this not suffering of Felicissimus to enter into the church / is no excommunication / (as the D. saith) and carrieth necessarily with yt / that which Cornelius could not do / through the Province / but only in place where he was present: yt must follow / that by the word church, where this was done / a particular place must be understanded / and not as is supposed / ether diocese / or Province.

Where I shown / that forasmuch as by church is mente the place, where the poenitents confessed their faults, that being nether diocese / nor Province / but a particular congregation / the word church also must note a particular congregation: the D. answereth / that forsomuch as Novatus denied forgiveness unto the fallen, the meaning off Cyprian is nothing else, but that Novatus did not receive thē, into the general and catholic church off Christ. Wherein he hath clean overturned the meaning off Cyprian / which is not to show (as he saith) that Novatus would not suffer those that had fallen / to be received into the lap of the church (which thing was notoriously known of it self): but to show / what were the impieties which waited upon that heresy / amongst which he placeth this / that thereby public confession off faults / to be made in every particular congregation (a singular exercise off piety / and true worship of God) was quite taken away. And wherefor in translating my words to no purpose / nor to no advantage off his / hath he passed by so slyly those words / the threshoulde off the church? For if by confession of faults in the church / Cyprian mean the general / and catholic church off Christ: I would gladly know off him / whether the catholic church off Christ have a threshould: and if it have / where he will assign it.

Last off all / where as out of thes words off Cyprian / they dare nor approach the threshould off the church, but wander abroad in the Province, I conclude that the word church, cannot be taken for the Province / being opposed unto yt: he answereth / that Cyprian doth oppose there / the church unto heretics / and not unto a Province. This is strange / that by a church / Cyprian must mean a Province: and by the word Province, he must not mean a Province. and in saying / they roued about the Province to deceive, and spoil the brethren: yt is clear that by Province / are not understanded the heretics in the Province; for brethrē be not heretics. Where he would give to understand / that the Province (if yt be Christened) being the church, cannot be opposed unto the church: in deed if by opposed, were mē te contrary / he had said truly. but when by opposed, or set against / he could not be ignorant but I mente that which was diverse: he might have known / that as a Christian diocese may be opposed unto a Christian Province: so a particular Christian church / may be opposed unto ether off both.

I would yow would omit nothing which might make for your purpose: but I would wish that yow would not repeat one thing so often. For if they had no good taste at the first: surely by this often seathing / they are altogether unsavory. Cyprians matter is answered: the division of ecclesiastical functions into three degrees / bishop / Elder (as yow say priest) and Deacon / I have shown to make flatly against yow. There remaineth here / that I answer unto Demetrius. which was about the year off the Lord 291. Who if he were bishop off so many churches / as is supposed: there is the greater likelihood / that in Cyprians time there might be bishops of the same breed. First if I grant that he had such a superintendence / over all the parishes off Alexandria and Egypt / as Cyprian is said of Gregory Nazienzen / almost over all the world: that is / that for his learning and godliness / he was sought to off all the bishops of those partes: the Answ. seeth he can gain nothing thereby / to settle ether his bishop / archbishop / or Metropoliran. But I answer / that he hath unfaithfully reported Eusebius / yea and that also pretending to set down the authors words: as appeareth / for that he hath set them in latin. Eusebius very words are thes. Laetus was then governor off Alexandria, and the rest of Egypt: and Demetrius then, newly after Iuliane, received upon him the Bishops office off the parishes there. Here yt appeareth that Eusebius saith / that Laetus the magistrate / governed both Alexandria, and Agypt: but speaking of the Bishopric off Demetrius / only saith / he was Bishop off the paris hes there. which when by common construction / yt may be as well referred unto Alexandria only / or unto the rest off Egypt only / or to both together: yt was to great boldness / not only to gather this sense of Eusebius / but also to bring him in so speaking. But that the word there, cannot be referred unto the rest off Egypt / but only hath relation unto the parishes off Alexandria / and that as there are no such words as yow ascribe unto Eusebius / so there can be no such sense as yow Imagin: yt may easily and clearly be understanded off that before / and after. For if nether the bishops of Alexandria before Demetrius / nor those after him unto the times wherein Cyprian / and Cornelius lived / had that Jurisdiction over Egypt which yow Imagin: then by all reasonable understanding / yt must be esteemed that this word (there) owght to be restrained unto Alexandria.

Abilius / the third Bishop off Alexandria after Mark had been in that church / about the year of our Lord a 100. Eusebius affirmeth to have been bishop off the parish off Alexandria, but of the other partes of Egypt maketh no mention. He saith the same off Primus / succeeding him in that bishopric off Alexandria: the same off Iustus / which succeeded Primus: the same of Eumenes which succeeded him: the same off another Mark which succeeded him: the same of Celadion which succeeded him: the same off Agrippa / whō also he calleth Agripinus which succeeded him. And where speaking off all the former he said / they were bishops off the Parishe off Alexandria: off Iuliane which succeeded Agripinus he saith / he governed the churches in, or at Alexandria uttering the same thing by diverse words. Unto this Iuliane succeeded Demetrius / off whom is said as before hath been shown, yea off those which succeeded Demetrius / as famous / and as renowned as he: there is no such thing. For off received the ministry which was at Alexandria: likewise of Dionisius which succeeded Heracles / that he received the government of the churches which were at Alexandria which Dionysius lived about the times off our Cyprian / and Cornelius / which we have presently in hand.

When therefore the Bishops of Alexandria so famous / are not red to have had bishoply authority off any Province / but are contained within the circuit off one city / until the time off Cyprian / and Cornelius: yt appeareth not only that the D. hath been abused in thes words off Eusebius: but that this owght to be another mark to know / that nether Cyprian / nor Cornelius had any Bishoplicke authority at all / further then the cities wherein their churches were. And withal appeareth the cause / why Euseb. did no more particularly / restrain the bishopric off Demetrius unto Alexandria: namely for that he had so often spoken before of the precinctes of that bishopric. The next diu. hath nothing worth answer: being only that which I in few words subscribed unto. Sauing this / that Cyprian was Pupianus bishop: which maketh nether hot / nor kolde unto this question: seeing that Pupianus was no bishop / but one that sometime had been off Cyprians church. But of answer to my argument (that forasmuch as Cyprian condemneth the pride of Pupian, for that his deed was like, as if one should be appointed bishop of a bishop, or judge of judge: there is no news. whereas if yt were not a proud thing / to be bishop of a bishop / &c. Cypr. did with no good advise / set out the fault of Pupian by those words. And that Cyprian complaineth not off any wrong done to him as archbishop (which the Ans. afraid to affirm / would have his reader think.) but only as he was Bishop yt appeareth manifestly by diverse places / in that he denieth that he pressed him with further authority, then that which all bishops had by succession unto the Apostles. That Cyprian did not object this, to appointe him self bishop of a bishop, as a proud name, but as a proud deed: is a poor exception. for if yt were a proud deed / to exercise the office off bishop over a bishop: yt must be also a proud name / to be called the bishop: off a bishop.

The Answ. words carry no meaning with them / to conclude that which this cause requireth. For what meaneth this / one bishop off a Province, had no authority over another, but were equal? what is this to my reason? which is, that forsomuch as the godly writers prove the equality off the bishop off Rome with other bishops, for that they called one another fellows, and brethren: the bishops off dioceses, and metropolitans calling one another fellow bishop, fellow in office, brother, &c, do thereby declare that there was none which ruled over another. For unless the reason be firm in the one: yt is not good in the other. But he answereth further / Cyprian in calling the bishops off his Province fellow bishops, and brethren, declared thereby the function to be all one. So may the Papists answer / that the Bishop off Rome called the Bishops his fellows / and brethren / because they had the same function / and not in that for policy sake they were not subject unto him. But as that / so this is an absurd answer. The Godly writers use not this reason / to prove that other bishops exercised the same ministry off the word and Sacraments / with the bishop of Rome (which the Pope himself confesseth): but to prove that they were not under / but off the same authority with him / which he denieth. The next answer (Cyprian in calling them 〈1 page duplicate〉 〈1 page duplicate〉 fellow bishops declareth his humble spirit) is I doubt not / although I cannot presently note the place / another buckler off the Papists against this reason. As if true humility did hinder any / to take that honor which his lawful office ether in church / or common wealth doth put upon him.

He further answereth / that S. Peter calling the Bishops, and Pastors to whom he wrote fellow Elders, was notwithstanding higher in degree then they. I grant: but I deny that therefore S. Peter could exercise dominion over them. When it is said that fellow bishop importeth equality: yt is not meant so much for honor / as for equality in authority that one hath over another. For in honor the bishop off Rome had some preeminence over the Alexandrine / &c. yt being granted him to have the first seat in meetings / which notwithstanding had no dominion. Therefore this maketh directly against the dominion off Archbishops. For if Peter in degree off ministry above the pastors / in calling them fellow elders renounced dominion over them: how much more owght they forbear to use dominion over those / with whom they carry the same yoke / and degree off ministry? To that owt off Cyprian (none of thē toke himself bishop off bishops) he answereth / he meaneth the title off universal bishop: which how absurdly it is spoken / may appear by that ^a before spoken off the African Council. His second answer is a pinch at Cyprians authority / for that thes words were uttered off him in that Council, where an error was decreed, whereof hs was chief autor. Where he might with as good right / reject all that ever Cypriā wrote. For albeit this were spokē in that Council: yet yt no more pertaineth / nor hath no more acquaintance with that error / then this that we are justified by faith alone. If he would conclude that Cyprians authority is no sufficient proof / considering that being a man he might err in this pointe / as he did in another: it is that we willingly grant / and therefore call / and cry upon the D. as loud as we can / that the whole cause may be tried by the scripture: from which he flieth / as Darckenes before the face off the light.

His third is: by thes words none taketh on him to be the bishop off bishops, he mente that one bishop should not tyrannically rule over another. which is untrue: for Cypr. addeth that / as an either thing likewise forbidden. So that where he saith / none doth ether make him self bishop off bishops, or bind his fellows by tyrannical fear: the D. off two sentences maketh one / and Cyprians or, he expoundethe that is to say. But doeth he not see / how still he ministereth weapons unto the Papists / by this frivolous answer? for unto the godly learned writers / alleging this place to prove that the bishops off Rome have no authority over other bishops / the Papists may answer with the D. that all that is mente off tyrannical authority. Fouthly he saith / thes words Every bishop hath ftee liberty, and free judgment off his own power, are not mente off jurisdiction, but of judgment, and opinion. As if there were les danger / in letting a bishop hold what opinion he thinketh good / without controlment of another bishop: then in letting him govern his church as him seemeth best / without the same controlment. So that herein the D. flying from the smoke / falleth into the fire. The vanity off which answer appeareth also / by that in another place where he saith: there is but one bishopric whereof every bishop holdeth one part, wholly, fully, in all respects. Likewise in an other place he saith / he holdeth his bishopric off Christ, who is the chief bishop. And most plainly it is confuted by that I have alleged owt off Cyprian: Where in express words / he referreth this freedom off power which every Bishop hath / not (as the D.) to the bishops opinion, but unto the government off his church.

Where for confirmation off thes answers he saith / otherwise a bishop should be exempted from all controlment off Synods, and other, as well as of archbishops: the answer is easy. For although Cyprian say no one Bishop can be judged off another bishop: yet he denieth not but he may be judged off the church. And although no one bishop have authority over him: yet a Council off bishops may correct him. And that this is one off those judgments off Christ Cyprian meant off / and that in those words he doth not reserve the judgment off the bishop offending / unto the day of the general judgment: may be shown by that he saith / Christ set thē bishops in their charges. As therefore Cyprian calleth the placing off a bishop in his charge by the church / by the elders thereof / and the next bishops / the placing of Christ: so he meaneth that judgment given against a bishop offending / by the church / and Synods / is the judgment of Christ. That owt off Cyprian / wherein the weight off the argument lieth (every Bishop must rule his own flock himself, as he that shall make account off his deed unto the Lord) he passeth by. After to the words off Cyprian (that nether he, nor his fellows used compulsion towards any, appointed any law to any: seeing that everyone set over the church, hath in government thereof free disposition of his own will / werof he shall give accoumpte unto the lord: (he saith /

/ and therupō according to his custom / picketh a quarrel to translate the whole sentence: Yet nether showeth one word / nor can show left out / to make for him / against me. Only he saithe vndowtedly Cyprian in saying he would not deal with other bishops, &c. meaneth those churches and bishops which he had nothing to do with: which is very strange / seeing he hath before made him archbishop / almost ouerall the world.

After he saith / he would not have suffered them if they had been off his own charge: which is a gross begging off that in question. for yt is debated whether he had any bishops under his charge. And what manner off interpretation is this / we do violence to none, nor appointe laws to none, that is to none in other Provinces? and every bishop hath power of the government of of his own church, that is every bishop out off Cyprians province? what a kold saying should this be / that nether he / nor any of his fellows / used violence towards bishops off other Provinces? With whom they having so small intercommuning / could scarce use violence if they would. Or to say they appointed no laws / to whom they had no color to give any? And as this interprepretacion having lien in the Ans. rack / is pulled owt of all the joints; so that it is utterly false / may appear by that before alleged / owt off the Council off Carthage: Where words of like effect are uttered by Cyprian / unto the bishops off the same Province he was of. Last of all / because I may not have that credit which the Ans. to understand this place off Cyprian: yet I trust he will believe Musculus. Who of this place / and others concludeth / that when Cyprian wrote, he did never so much as think off the power off Patriarchs, off Metropolitans, off the bishop off Rome: but esteemed that all bishops owght to have like care, and power, everyone in his own church. So beside this testimony / that Cyprians priest was nether Patriarch / nor Metropolitan: he hath also that he was bishop of one church / which is that I have affirmed. For the authority which the archbishops / and bishops have ▪ there is another place: yt is sufficient here to show / that they had no jurisdiction one over another in Cyprians times. That owt off Cyprian / touching ministers sacrificing: is before answered.

To Cyprian saying / the unity off the church is interteined by consent off bishops one with another: the D. answereth / they agree never the worse by having a superior above them Albeit they agree never the worse / yet if they agree never the better: he owght as an unprofitable tree / which occupieth place in the lords orchard / be rooted owt. Althowgh it shall (God willing) appear / that the Archbishops office is the knife which cut the cords off unity: which both was / and otherwise might have been maintained / amongst the bishops. The first reason why the archbishop is necessary / is: because there may be one to assemble them together. As though that was not doon before that office was heard off: or it could not be doon conveniently without an archbishop / by appointing one amongst them at every off their Synods / who should have authority to call the Synod following. Which is likewise answer to his next reason / of putting them in mind off their duties. Al this may be seē / not only by practice of reformed churches in diverse places / France especially (where Synods are assembled from all partes of the realm twice a year / notwithstanding all that dominiō of one minister over another / pulled up by the rotes): but also in the primitive church / by that recited of one Malchion. Who being a simple Elder (so far from the estate of a •• Archbishop / that he was not Bishop) was president in the Council off Antioch / assembled against Samosatenus heresy. If a simple Elder might govern the Bishops: yt shall be to great shame for them / not to suffer them selves to be governed for the time by one of their own order / without making an archbishop. Whereby appeareth how intolerable the D. is: which condemneth this order as inconvenient / confused / disordered.

Where he saith / it cannot be but a great help, that one have chief care of prescruacion of unity: the office off an archbishop can put no further care for the church upon any / then the Lord putteth on him by virtue off the office off bishop. For if the government off his own church / take not up all his thowghtes / and cares: whatsoever is left / is due unto other churches by ordinance off the lord. Forsomuche therefore as every bishop in the Province by calling off God / careth to the uttermost of his power / for the churches wherūto he is associated / and the archbishop can do no more then what lieth in his power: it followeth that there can be no calling off men / which can ad unto his care for this unity. If he say that this institution off men / causeth the care commanded off god / the rather performed: first yt is untrue. for although the ordinances off men / may give a prick to the doing off things outward: yet they are not hable to move the conscience / and inward affections / whereof the care he speaketh off / is a fruit. Then if it had such force / as to awake his care: yet that should be with no advantage unto the churches of the Prounce / forsomuch as that would give occasion unto other bishops / off diminishing theirs: whilst they fancy with them selves a straiter bond / to provide for the unity off the church in the archebishop / then in them selves. And so the care by this means revived in one / should die in a great number. where he addeth / as yt is in other societies: yt hath been shown that our Savior Christ / forbad that rule off one minister over another in the church / which may be used in the common wealth. Althowghe I have answered further unto this pointe / where those societies are particularly specified.

Where he asketh / what if the bishops were divided amongst them sel ues? who should compound their controversies? He hath his answer / that he may call them together / in whose hand the last Synod left that authority? And what if the archbishop him self draw out off his trace / and be ether divided from all the bishops / or from the better / and sounder parte / standing this goodly order, who shall range him? And when the D. saithe that the archbishop cannot deal for appeasing off controversies / but by persuasion: and that composition which is made by entreaty off parties / may be made conveniently by equals / what needethe there any superior archbishop? How untruly the Ans. writeth / off the archbishops and bishops authority in our church / to hyde the horns off their immoderate power / both in this diuis. and that before: the eyes / and ears off all men are witness. But as he serveth the archbishops / and bishops in this defense: so for recompense off his pains / he maketh them wait upon him: and having now set them on horseback by and by for shift of answer / he maketh them light / and go a foot with their fellows.

Cyprian saith the cause must be heard, where the fault was committed. the D. that is to be understanded of the Province, or diocese. as if it were not heard within the province / and diocese: when yt is heard within that particular church / where the controversy groweth. Therefore to make good his answer / thus he must interpret thes words (there where the fault was committed it shall be heard): wheresoerver in the Province / or diocese the fault is committed / yt must be heard at the archbishops or bishops palace. The first interpretation is contrary to the propriety of speech. For seeing matter rising in a particular church / is said properly to rise there where yt was done / and cannot but improperly / and by figure be said to rise in the Province / or diocese: yt is manifest that Cyprian is made without any necessity / to sprake improperly. As for the next interpretation / yt is clean contrary to Cyprians meaning. For when he will have the matter there handled / where they may have both accusers, and witness. that can be by no means understood off the Archbishops / or bishops consistory. For the parties have not their witnesses / and accusers there / whether they are cōstreined with greaate charges / and longe iorneis to transporte them. Where he saith Cyprian speaketh against those which went from Africa into Italy: I prevented that / showing the reason is general / and serving as well against those / which will pull their causes unto their hearing which dwell a 100. or 200. miles off them / as against those which carry them from one country to another: whereunto he answereth nothing. For if there should be a bare opposition / between Afric / and Rome / and not rather between the place where the controversy riseth / and that far of: as lawful as yt ys for him to say / Cyprian meaneth not a particular church where the cause riseth, but the diocese, or Province: so lawful ys yt for me to say / that he meaneth nether diocese / nor province but only that quarter which maketh the fourth parte of the world. So that by this means / the cause rising in Mauritania / may be judged in Ethiopia: which is more then 10. times farther a sonder thē Rome frō Carthage. And consequently yt should follow / that any controversy rising in the church off England / may be determined at Rome being a parte off Europe / as at the place (by his answer) where the cause rose.

Where he saith / there ys no Province with us where both the accusers, and witnesses may not be brought: I grant / if they come and leave their business at home: if they die not by the way: if the parties be able to bear their charges. And with thes conditions they may be brought further. And by this exposition off the Ans. the trial made in passing the seas / which the council off Africa after forbad / may be a great deal more commodious / then the archbishops. For they which dwell by the seaside / may both with more ease / and less charges have end of their matters in Calais / Deep / Ireland / and Flaunders / then at Canterbury. Yea the trial from Carthage unto Rome / is much easier: seeing there was but three days journey between Rome / and Carthage. As appeareth by that Cato / to induce the Senate of Rome to desiroy Carthage: held owt a fig saying, that was but the third day, sithēs that fig grew in Carthage. Therefore Cyprians argument (by his interpretation) is not worth a shoe buckle / to prove that they owght not to fly from Carthage to Rome the passage being easter / then from one end of a Province to another. Especially making such large Provinces as he doth: that is / one to contain 160. bishoprickes, belike such as ours. Where he saith / this reason may serve as well againest Westminster hall: leaving that as impertinent unto this question / it shall be sufficient to answer / that besides that there be many causes ended in lower courts / hold̄ almost in every village: he owght to understand / that ecclesiastical causes are to be handled with greater speed then civil: matters of conscience / more then of the pourse: the title of heavenly inheritance / more then the earthly: of the life to come / then of this. So that although the trial of civil causes for the whole realm / were (as he saith) necessary a • Westminster: yet the same reason will not stand in ecclesiastical.

In all thes places which the Ans. hath brought owt off Cyprian / Eusebius / Socrates / it is manifest that one bishop, is opposed unto heretic bishops. Whereby may appear how like it is which I have alleged / that by one bishop / is understanded not the unity off number / but off truth in religion. And that there be no doubt hereof / let Cyprians words be considered. That there should be another altar appointed, and a new priesthood besides one altar, and one priesthood, it cannot be. Whatsoever he be which gathereth inn another place, scattereth: yt is adulterous, yt is wicked, yt is sacrilege, whatsoever the rage off men doth institute, whereby the ordinance off God is broken. Now except the Ans. will say it is wicked / against the word of God / adulterous / to have two bishops in one city: yt must follow that Cyprians words do not bar many bishops to be in one city. And what if it be shown / that not only in Cyprians time / but in Cyprians church there were diverse bishops? Augustine speaking of the Donatists / which separated them selves from the church / for that they saw certain faults unpunished therein / saith: How did then Cyprian, and other the Lord's corn in that church (meaning Carthage) of unity eat the Lord's bread, and drink his cup, not with the people only, or common sort off the Clergy: but with the bishops themselves, which were covetous ketchers, and which shall not possess the kingdom off heaven? I would gladly understand what Bishops they were like to be / with whom Cyprian did celebrate the supper off the Lord. were they not Bishops off the church off Carthage? If they were: it appeareth I have not so vainly expounded Cyprian / as the Ans. would bear his reader in hand. And although the D. be not able to prove / that there was but one only bishop in a city in Chysostomes time: yet I grant that was observed in the moste places.

Whether I am able to show that from Christ's time there were two Bishops in one city, before appeared: now appeareth what a vain crack it was / that all the godliest, and best learned expound Cyprians words off an Archbishop, when not one can be found to testify it. Yet to the end he may have something to maintain this brag / he goeth about to make the writers differ from them selves. For if this place be off the authority that every bishop hath in his diocese (as writers do flatly affirm / in so much that the bishop off Salisbury bringeth in Cyprian speaking after this sort: For every bishop (saith Cyprian) within his own diocese, is the priest of God, &c): then yt cannot be understanded of an Archbishop. For the authority Cyprian speaketh off / being the highest / and such as could not be controlled of any other bishop: yt must necessarily seclude tharch bishops authority / which is above a bishop. And as the Answ. to make Cyprians place serve his turn / was compelled to expound Priest archbishop, church Province: so to make the bishop and M. Fox help to bear owt his folies / he must expound diocese Province / and Bishop archbishop. And what man̄er of proof is this / to conclude the greater by the less? if of an archbishops authority he had concluded a bishops / it had been more probable: but off a bishops to conclude an archbishops / and off dominion over a diocese (as he pretendeth) to conclude dominion over one Province / is far owt off square. The next is answered in the beginning.

The first place is / that the bishop upon that of Cyprian, saith: confusion, and sects rise in a Province, or diocese, where the Bishops authority, &c. Here because the bishop maketh mention off Province: he concludeth that he speaketh off an archbishop. As if his words may not well be taken / that the confusion of secres ensueth in a whole Province thorowghowt / because the bishops authority which be therī / is despised. For beside that I have shown that the bishop cannot (saving his former sentence which he soft repeateth) expound Cyprians place off an archbishop: if he had in this place meant an archbishop / it had been easy to have coupled him with his Province / as he doth the bishop with his diocese. He asketh me what I call him, that hath government off a Province? I ask him where the bishop off Sal. saith / Cyprians place is to be understood of that bishop / which hath government off a Province? doth the only mention of the word Province▪ infer an Archbishop? If he prove an Archbishop / and Province relatives / so that a man cannot name the one / but he must understand the other: he saith something. Ad also that the Ans. dealeth unfaithfully in this place. For the bishop making his conclusion both off Cyprian / and of a place off Honorius / Emperor: he propoundeth it as the conclusion of Cyprians place only. Whereas if he could conclude off thes words (within a province) an archbishop: yet yt were easy to answer / that the bishop put in those words / in respect of the place cited owt of the Emperor / and not in respect off Cyprians. Considering that within a dousen lines after / he affirmeth / that Cyprians place is understanded off thautoritie off a Bishop within his several dices: and by whole Brotherhood, a company within a several diocese.

For that off M. Nowell pag. 33. beside that whatsoever he speaketh there / is not upon this place of Cyprian / but of another: I have shown in the former book / that chief Prelate ys not always used for a bishop. And that it is not altogether unlike but M. Nowell might mean so / appeareth by that the D. citeth owt off the 62. and 63. pag. wherehe taketh chief priest and bishop, for the same. Howbeit because the autor him self ys alive / and knoweth best what he meaneth: I am well content the meaning off his words be such / as himself shall best like off. Out off M, Fox he cannot find so much as a fig leaf / and therefore telleth us how he saith, Rome was a patriarchall church, and therfofore not unlike but Carthage was also: how by a diocese is meant a Province, and forsomuch as he allowed an archbishop, yt is like he expounded Cyprians place of an archbishop. The only rehearsal is too long a confutation. In the end are recited at large the words of M. Philpot. which attributing unto Cyprian a diocese / declareth that he esteemed him a bishop / not an archbishop. For that he calleth him the Novatians chief Bishop: yt is far from the estate of an archbishop. He might well call him so in respect of his singular learning / and piety: or in that he was bishop off the chiefest place in Afrik. And the same may be said off Cornelius being Patriarch. For otherwise in authority he could not be: seeing himself confesseth / that patriarches were appointed at the council off Nice / about 150. years after. Albeit the truth is / that the appointment of those 4. patriarchall seats / was not by the Council off Nice / but off Calcedon. Nether doth it follow that if Cornelius were a Pairiarch / therefore he was Prince off many bishops: unless he will say that because Tertullian calleth Philosophers Patriarchs off Heretics, and Jerome Tacianus, the Patriarch of Encratites: therefore Philosophers / and Tacianus bore dominion over the Heretics / or Encratites. He might be so called in that he was chief father of the church off Rome / where he executed his office: as Jerome witnesseth off the Jews Rabbin's to have been called Patriarchs: yet they had no government / or rule / but in the several Synagogues where they taught.

Now it appeareth the Ans. cannot bring so much as one seely testimony / to prove this place of Cyprian understood of the archbishops / or metropolitans authority: besides that alleged of Muscu. flatly denying that Cyp. thought of any Archbis. or Metrop. but only of every Bishop in his own church: I will ad the testimony of Bucer / who affirmeth the very same that I. Showing against the Pope / that Christ only is universal bishop / he assigneth this reason: For he is present with his sheep, and with every of them, and feedeth thē until the end of the world: and for this cause putteth ministers in his place, and that to every church her several minister. For he did not only give Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, and ministers off many churches once: but giveth also daily unto every church off his her ministers, Pastors, and Doctors: and both instructeth, and leadeth them with his spirit, that they may serve their ministries, himself only giving increase unto their planting, and watering. For unto everyone off them, he hath appointed a proper portion off the flock, as S. Cyprian testified by warrant off tradition off Christ, and his Apostles: and that with this condition, and power, that everyone together with his presbytery, and Clergy should rule his whole flock, as one which should make account off his own act: not unto the Pope off Rome, but to the Lord. which is the Prince of Pastors. Amōgest whō, no man might appoint himself bishop of bishops, or judge another, or be judged of another: whereupon the judgment of the bishop belonged unto Synods, not unto one bishop, as long as the policy off the church given by thapostels, stood. Therefore bishops were equal, not only in power of the keys (by which fable Latomus would elude the place of Cyprian) but also in use, and degree off power, and jurisdiction. In the end / shutting up all that he had said off the metropolitans / he saith: This is the sentence off the catholic church, concerning the power of bishops as well off Rome, as others, grounded on the word off God, approved by canons, observed off all true bishops. Wherein Bucer affirmeth that this portion off the flock which Cyprian speaketh off / is the charge off every minister in his several church: and that by institution off Christ / and his Apostles / no minister or bishop can have another bishop to judge him / but that if there be a fault in him / it is to be judged by Synods. Thus I leave to the readers judgment / how it was more easy for the Ans. to say / the godliest, and learnedest writers expound the place of Cyprian of an archbishop: then to show it / when it cometh to proof. And although he fall flat under the bourden undertaken in his first book: yet as though he had not half his lode / he hath charged himself a fresh. For where before he said / the godliest, and learnedest expound this of an archbishop: now he saith / all learned writers expound it as he doth. It were well there were some reasonable proportion / between the tongue and the hand. for it cannot be but a fowl fault / to be so long tounged / and so short handed.

Before I come to Jerome's testimony / the order off times for the better understanding off this cause / requireth that those both authorities / and examples be answered / which the Answerer hath alleged / both before / out off the Council off Nice and Antioch / and after / pa. 470. &c. The next to the times off Cyprian / is Dionysius Alexandrinus: which (saith he) had under his iurisdictiō all the churches in Pentapolis, as Athanasius testifieth in a certain epistle, Apolog 2. First / there ys no such thing in all that book / nor in no epistle contained therein. The place he meaneth of / is in an epistle he wrote concerning Dionysius judgment / against the Arian heresy. Then / yt ys not said (as he reporteth) that all the churches of Pentapolis were under his jurisdiction: but only that he had care of those churches, or (as the translators words be) the care of those churches apperteined unto him. Which what little or no weight they have to prove archepiscopal iurisdictiō: shall be seen when we come to the place / where the sense of this to have care, ys discussed. In the mean time yt is to be observed for better trial of this matter / which I have before noted out of Eusebius: that he succeeded in the bishopric off Alexandria unto his predecessor / without attributing unto him any further charge. And when as Euseb. declareth / that he writing unto the churches in Egypt / wrote unto them by the bare name of the brethren which were in Egypt, without any title betokening any bond / or knot off ministry towards them: and off the other parte writing unto the churches in Alexandria / entitleth that writing an exhortation unto his flock: he declareth evidently / that he esteemed Alexandria his proper charge / and that (saving that both in respect Egypt was his country / and the peace of his own church was folded up in the welfare of yt) his care for Aegipte was general / as for other churches.

And the very testimony which the Ans. hath alleged / if yt be weighed: doth sufficiently declare how far Dionysius was / front that antoritie ever the churches off Pentapolis / which he imagineth. For there ys shown / bow when he understood off certain bishops there / leavened with the heresy of Sabellius: he sent messengers to them to call them back from their heresy. And when they went yet forward more impudently: what jurisdiction doth he exercise against them? doth he cause them to appear before him? send owt the sentence off excommunication / remove them from their charges / suspende them / at the lease until some trial off their amendment? none off all thes: but saith / he was by this stubbernes off theirs, compelled to write against them. And yet if Dionysius might have used this authority / he would no doubt: and if he had / Athanasius would by no means have let it pass. For if he could have alleged / that Dionysius had ether deposed / suspended / or excommunicated those Sabellian bishops: yt had been a singular means to have stopped the mouthe off the Arians: which would have borne men in hand / that Dionysius favored Sabellius heresy / and consequently also theirs. And touching the government off his own church in Alexandria: how far yt was from that lordlie dominion / the bishops / and archbishop use now: may appear in that he calleth the elders off the church off Alexandria / his fellow elders.

After folowethe one Gregory / which he avoucheth out of Euseb. 7. li. 24. to have governed all the churches through Pontus first / this word all, is not found there. Secondly / yt is utterly untrue that he saith / he governed all the churches. For Eusebius joineth Athenodorus with him / as his match in all pointes. So that if there were any archbishop there / it was two headed: contrary to the archbishops institution / supposed of his patrons. Thirdly / yt appeareth in another place / where Eusebius speaketh of them again / that they were not bishops off all the churches of Pontus / but had only their parishes / or churches in Pontus. And the cause why Euseb. made mention of those only / was (as is there apparent) because they were the moste famous amongst the Bishops in those partes: and therefore by all likelihood chosen out off the rest / were sent unto the Council off Antioch / gathered 〈1 page duplicate〉 〈1 page duplicate〉 〈1 page duplicate〉 〈1 page duplicate〉 against the heresy of Sabellius. Therefore he which is said off the D. to have been ruler off all the churches off Pontus / is found to have but one only parish in that circuit.

Peter / Bishop off Alexandria followeth: which having regard unto the time wherein he died / was only about eight years / before the Council off Nice. So that the Answ. in saying he was 20. years before, must be understanded of the time he entered into his bishopric. Of him Epiphanius saithe / he had the administracion of all the churches of Egypt, was archbishop. What manner off archbishoprick / and government this was / may be gathered by that that Epiphanius saithe / Miletius was archbishop likewise, and had the government together with him. And not that only / but that Miletius occupied the seconde place in the archbishopricke with Peter. Whereby Epiphanius giveth to understand / that there was the third and fourth / and consequently as many archbishops / as there were bishops off name / and estimation amongst them: which beside their own / procured the good off other churches round about. This is further confirmed in that Epiphanius (as rendering the cause why he calleth Miletius Archbishop / and to have the seconde place after Peter) saithe / Miletius seemed to excel the other bishops in Egypt: And where yt is said / that Miletius was under peter: yt is to be understanded that he was under him in honor / and not subject unto him as unto a commander / or as to one which had dominion over him: as yt shall appear by the Council off Nice after / and as the discourse of Epiphanius story / plainly showeth. For where as between Peter / and his adherents off the one parte / and Meletius and his fellows off the other / being shut in in prison for testimony off the truth / there fell a controversy about receiving those which had fallen in time off persecution: Peter (as Epiphanius reporteth) desired, and made supplication unto Miletius, and the rest saying, let us receive them, and appoint them a penance. And when he could not gain his cause by prayer / and supplication: he spread out a veil in the middaste off the prison / and proclaimed by a deacon / that as many as were off his side▪ should come unto him: and those which were off Melitius parte, should go to him. Wherupon a few joined them selves unto him, the greater number remaining with Melitius. In which count off Epiphanius / there is nether any authority / or dominion pretended by Peter over the rest / nor any subjection acknowledged off the other. but there is to be seen contrariwise all felowlike behavior of one towards another. And unless this be the property of an Archbishop / to be autor off a horrible schism / and rente in the church (whereas yt ys vaunted off him / that he compoundeth schisms made by other) there appeareth nothing in Peter in that whole action / Archbishoplike. If the Answ. say / the prison was no place where he could exercise his archepiscopal authority: the reply is easy / that he might as well exercise yt there / as owt off prison. For yt being a time off persecution / he could use nowhere any other constreint then by the ecclesiastical censures: and those (having as appeareth a company with him in prison) he might as well use there / as being at liberty.

Hitherto I trust hath appeared / that there hath been not so much as any footing / or kold sent ether off archbishop / or metropolitan such as ours: yt followeth to examine that owt off the Nicene Council, which bringeth the first tidings of the Metropolitans. Where we having confessed that there were Metropolitans / denied that they were like ours how truly / resteth to be considered. First / that which the Answ. can most pretend owt off this Council / for jurisdiction off Metropolitans over Bishops off the same Province / is the bishop off Alexandria, owght to have power over the bishops in Egypt, Libya, and Pentapolis. Thes are the sounding words / and which carry the greatest noise off Metropolitan authority. If therefore it fall owt that thes words to have power / bring more show in the eye / then weight in the balance: then the Answ. is greatly fallen from his hope / which thinketh to reap of this peace / dominion off the Metropolitan over other bishops. The words which the D. turneth to have government, signify in that place nothing but to ^g have chief dignity, or honor Which is apparent / for that the same thing being attributed unto Rome / Antioch / and other metropolitan churches / is uttered by the word honorable reward, the same that dignity in the next canon where be speaketh off the bishop off Jerusalem: as it is also noted off Villerius / where he confirmeth this signification off the word / preeminence, owt off Plato. This may be further understanded / by that Beza writeth upon thes words / he gave all these which believed in him this dignity, or prerogative, that they should be called the children off God.

Now what this dignity / and preeminence was / may easily be seen by that the bishop of Rome having preeminence, or dignity over the bishop off Constantinopel / Alexandria / &c. had nothing thereby more then they / saving only the first place in their meetings Seeing therefore thes words translated to have power, signify nothing but to have honor, which consisted only in having the highest place: by thes words off the Council groweth nothing to the Metropolitan / but only to sit in the highest place at meetings. This may also appear by the same ^h Council / where yt is said / that if there rise disorder in any church which is not compounded, it owght to be decided at the provincial Council, which was therefore to be holden twife every year: in which faults were to be corrected, not by the Metropolitan / but by the bishops together. And because the Council here referreth us / to that accoustomed before: yt is to be considered what that was / so far as we have testimony. The bishops assembled at Nice / brought their quarrels one against another / and offered them to the Emperor: which they would not have doon / at least so generally / if there had been any such order taken off referring their debates to the Metropolitan. The Emperor likewise receiving their bills / and answering that it pertained not unto him to decide those matters: sendeth them not to their Metropolitans to be judged / but adiourneth them to the judgment off God. Yet if there had been any such authority ecclesiastical off the Metropolitans: the Emperor / as he was very religious in those observations / would not by all likelihood / have failed in that.

Likewise writing jointly to Alexander bishop / and Arius Elder off Alexandria / amongst other things he saith: it was not meet they should rule so great a people, being divided among them selves. Where it is to be observed / that howsoever thes words so great a people be taken / whether for the church off Alexandria / or for all Agipt / &c. the Bishop governed not alone / but by consent / and advise of the Elders of that church. Then if the Ans. will refer this government to the whole countries off Egypt / Libya / &c. and take it in that signification he doth / for bearing dominion, and commanding the rest: not the bishop only / but every Elder off Alexandria / had commandment not only over the Elders / but over the bishops them selves off other churches. Which if it be absurd: that whereof it followeth / must be likewise. This is all that I find the Nicene Council giveth to the Metropolitan above the rest: how little it is / and how small a part off that the Answ. presumeth / let the reader judge. That he owght to be no bishop, which is made without consent off his Metropolitan, is a very seely prerogative: seeing yt was the order of the church in those times / that all the bishops off the Province / should be at the making off a Bishop. And as the election off the people was void / if the Metropolitan were not at it: so was it also if there were not three bishops at the least present. Let us see now whether the practice of the Metropolitanship / will fall owt anymore fanourable for this pretended jurisdiction.

Athanasius followeth: on whom the D. would fasten this archbishopricke: first / because Ischaras submitted him self unto him by lettres. As if everyone which hath offended another / doth by his submission acknowledge him an archbishop / whom he hath offended: and as if Ischaras owght not to have done as much unto any bishop in the Province / if he had belonged unto his parish / as he did unto that of Athanasius. Secondly because Arsenius, and those off his diocese, wrote lettres off submission unto Athanasius. The print off the diocese is so deeply set in the D. head / that whatsoever he meeteth with / he turnethe into yt. For there is there no mention off diocese / but off a city. As for the submission he maketh / yt is not to Athanasius / but unto the ecclesiastisticall canons: only he acknowledgeth him Metropolitan / and that without his sentence he will make no Ecclesiastical decree pertaining unto the church: which we deny not. For we confess that there were then Metropolitans. and as Arsenius could not make any decree to wching the whole church in the province: no more could Athanasius without Arsenius: as hath been before owt off the former book declared. But that he was subject unto Athanasius, there ys not a word: the clean contrary is to be plainly seen. For Arsenius in his fare well writeth thus; we and those with us, salute the whole company off sacred men which are in thy jurisdiction. by which words he manifestly exempteth him self / frō the jurisdiction off Athanasius. Wherupon yt must follow / that the office off Metropolitaneship in those days / implied no subjection / nor authority to command / over other bishops in his province. And Athanasius in calling the bishops there / his fellow ministres often times: declareth in what place he had them / not as subjects / but as his fellows. And that the A. escape not with that Popish shift / that Athanasius thereby did declare his humility: yt is to be seen in that book / that the other bishops do more then half a dosen times / call him their fellow minister, barely / without other title. Now if Athanasins not off right / but off his great humility called himself their fellow minister: yet the other bishops in so calling him / when they were subject unto him / and at his commandment / are to be charged not only as void off Christian humility / but also as forgetful even off all common civility / and good manners.

That added off Athanasius visiting off Mariotes, and the Provinces there, as they are called: pertaineth nothing unto this question. for there were no bishops in that place: and what he did in that behalf did not as Archbishop / but as Bishop: that territory belonging unto Alexandria. And not only Archbishops / but bishops / yea Elders visited the parishes off other bishops. As for that the parishes in the territory off Mariotes, had never • bishop, but belonged unto Athanasius: beside that I have shown that corruptions had greatly prevailed at that time / it is to be observed that it is there put as a strange thing / and unwonted that one bishop should have so large ground. For unless that be the authors ende: there was no cause why he should have used that kind off speech. Which may better appear / forsomuch as Socrates speaking off this story / interlaceth the same sentence: when as speaking off the places off bishops else where / he never mentioneth any such thing.

The canons off Arles Council, off that attributed unto the Apostles, and of Antioch follow. The first / hath nothing not granted / and serveth for filling only. The second / supposed of the Apostles / ys the same with that of Antioch. That off Antioch / is first unfaithfully translated / after untruly gathered upon. For where the Council saith / that the Bishop praesident in the Metropolitan city: should have care of the Province, because all men which have business use to come from all places, to the Metropolitan city. he hath pag. 332. turned the words off the Council upside down / putting in steed off because all men &c. wherefor all men, &c. making that the effect which it maketh the cause / and the cause which it maketh theffect. The Councils meaning is / that forsomuch as men do usually for other business / resort to the Metropolitan city: therefore the bishop of it was most fit / to whom controversies should be browgt. He translateth also for parish, diocese: and so in steed that the council supposeth the bishop to have under his charge often times / beside those in the town he dwelleth in / certain villages which resort unto his church / as in Hitchin / and diverse other places with us: he to be sure to put in enough / supposeth by his translation / that the bishops had a diocese / and their places beside. If by diocese he mean such as ours: I would gladly know / what those places were / which the bishops had beside their dioceses: when as in the largeste spread of bishops / they were notwithstanding tethered within the compass off other dioceses. If by it he mean a parish / such as every minister with us is assigned unto: why useth he diocese, to deceive the reader / especially when the Councils words pulled him to the word off paris he? If he will excuse this later fault / and lay yt upon the translator of the Councils / which turneth Parish. Dioces: he confirmeth at unawares that which I said / that at the first a diocese and parish were often confounded. Howbeit that the Councils words cannot bear that significacion / as we take Dioces / is before declared.

Upon thes words he gathereth / the hishops are subject unto the metropolitan, and that the council willeth them to be so: which is very untrue, for there is no word in that canon / that proveth subjection / much less expresseth. As for the honor which they should give him: I have shown what it is out off the Council off Nice: the care for other churches in the Province cometh after to be considered. For the bringing off matters unto him / which they could not ende at home: yt appeareth by diverse places / that they were not brought to him to determine / but only to make relation off / unto the provincial council: and that he could ende no matter / but which advise off other Bishops in the same Province. In the African Council yt was decreed / that if a bishop striving with another about the territories, entered into them without having resolutiō of the other bishops: although he had the people's consent, and Metropolitans letres, he should leese his cause. In the Council of Sardis / about the same time with that off Antioch / the bishops call their Metropolitan, brother, and fellow bishop. What Lordship and dominion can be gathered off thes things / I know not.

And that this was the first institution off Metropolitans which I have alleged / and that I have herein not straied from the meaning of the Councils / may appear by the testimonies off others / which have spoken off this matter. Calvin saith: they were instituted, for preseruatiō only of the policy: and what that was / he showeth by the bishop / the same in his own church / which the Metropolitan in the Province. That yt was as the office off a President in a Council, to propound matters, togather the voices, &c and to put that in execution, which was decreed by the rest: denying flatly that he had any dominion over the Elders off the same church, and affirming that he him self was subject to the company of the elders The same therefore by his judgment / must be the state off the Metropolitan / towards other Bishops. Bucer saith / there were certe in bishops assigned to the chief seats, whereof they had a singular care: which did not be have themselves as bishops over the bishops off those dioceses, but if any of them faulted: admonished him as one brother doth another, as one fellow, and companion in office doth another. And if the bishop admonished, ether did not, or could not amend the fault: he made relation of the whole matter unto the Synod. After he showeth that at the first the excellency, and preeminence off the bishop off Rome, Constantinople, and Alexandria, &c. was not off power and jurisdiction, but of knowledge, zeal, care, and help of others: which those chief bishops did so yield unto the churches, that they left the whole right off the bishops office, equal with that they thē selves executed, unto every bishop. Bullinger / after he had proved all dominion / primacy / and maioritie / forbidden by our Savior Christ unto the minister / saith: From the beginning the Apostles, and ministers off the churches which followed the rule off the Apostles, governed their churches equally, without that one was preferred before another (which he offereth to prove by many testimonies): and about the council off Nice, and a little before, Metropolitans by man's ordinance not to be contemned, were received: which should as it were be presidentes unto the rest, or rather serve all the rest in calling Synods. And yt was very warely provided, that he should not be called the primate, leste any man should think, that he was superior unto other in power, but in order only.

Wherein almost all the points off the Archbishop / and Metropolitan / debated between the Answ. and us / are contained. For first / he denieth that there was any preferment of one minister above another / in the Apostles times. Secondly he saith / the office off the Metropolitan came in a little before the Council off Nice. Thirdly / that it was not lawful for that metropolitan to be called primate. Fourthly / that he had no power over the rest / but served only for keeping of order in meetings. All which things we affirm / and the D. denieth: and that not without a triumph. As for that he saith / this institution of man is not to be despised it appeareth that he meant not to commend it / but only to signify that if yt had remained in that simplicity it might have been the easlier borne: especially / considering they have no such order off Metropolitans / with them. The B. off Salisbury / unto Harding objecting that the primates had authority over inferior bishops / answereth: they had it by agreement, and custom, but nether by Christ, nor by Peter, nor Paul, nor by any right off God's word. Whereby not only ys confirmed / that which I propounded / off my not variyng from the godly writers: but also falleth the D. dream / that they were instituted by the Apostles. Yea further appeareth / that their institution with authority over other / was unlawful: as that which hath no manner warrant owt off the word off God.

Having answered the Councils / I return unto Jerome's place / as yt is set down off the Ans. He saith / it is a poor refuge to discredit the autor. I spared the autor / casting part of the error vpō the times wherein he lived: which I proved corrupter and further from the truth left by the apostles / by a reason which he could not so much as wrangle with: although as touching the proof off an archbishop / or bishop such as ours / I am content the Ans. set up his credit as much as he will. He saith / there is no difference between Cyprians bisbop, and Jerome's. Seeing he will needs have it so / let one measure be off both: and thereby I trust shall appear / off that which I have spoken before / that Jerome's bishop is lower by head and shoulders / then they for whom his authority is holden owt. Howbeit if in Cyprians time / the bishop only had not the laying on of hands / and ordaining him that was chosen to the ministry by the church / but the Elders: and he did nothing in his church, or parish but with advise of the Elders thereof: yt appeareth that Jerome's bishop / although differing only from another minister / in ordaining Elders / and Deacons / had somewhat encroched upon the bounds off the presbitery / more then Cyprians Lastly he saith / for the corruption off times, this kind of bishop was devised. I willingly give testimony unto those governors / or at least the most off them / that they had a good meaning in that invention off man: but that it was remedy against the corruptions / I deny. And to the reasons before alleged for proof thereof / let this be added: that even from the first day / wherein this devise was established / the corruption in the church was not deminished / but grew / and got strength by little / until the whole face of the earth was covered / and the power off darkness / in the fullness off Antichrists kingdom / wholly settled. Likewise / that the first resistance by any settled church against that corruption / was by those which abolished that devise off man / and received the order in the Apostles times / touching the equality off ministers. As the Bohemians / Merindoles / the churches in Germany / and Geneva: whose standard bearers (as partly hath appeareth / and more hereafter shall) fowght against this stately dominion both of bishops / and archbishops

The next diuis. I leave to the readers judgment / referring him to that answered in the beginning. In the next / as one whose forehead is more hard then Adamant / he shameth not still to affirm / that this manner off bishop, and archbishop was in the Apostles time: notwithstanding the autor owt off whom he draweth his proofs / confesseth that at the first there was no difference between a bishop and an Elder: and that after it was decreed / that in every church one only should have the name of bishop. If it were the first institution that they should be one / and the first institution be the Apostles institution: it was the Apostles institution that they should be all one. if the Apostles did revoke this institution off theirs: show their hands / bring forth their evidence. Jerome prouethe by diverse testimonies off scripture / that a bishop and elder were one / according to S. Paul. Therefore if the D. avoid this authority: he must show us the Apostles authority in writing. for herein yt is true that the law saith / matter of writing and record, cannot be avoided but by that of as high a nature. He gathereth that this order of bishops / and archbis. was in the apostles times / because there were schisms then. I have by this reason proved in another place / that th •• e were no archbishops: where if he had any thing / he should have spoken. And how is he bewitched which seeth not the words of his autor? For when Jerome saith / this came by custom: he evidently declareth that •• was not by determinacion of the Apostles. The same declareth Augustine when he saith / the office of a bishop was greater then off another minister, as touching the names off honor, through a custom off the church, which now hath got̄ the upper hand. Likewise when Jerome saithe / this preferment of the bishop is not by any necessity of law, but for that yt was granted to honor him withal: yt ys manifest that yt was not by the Apostlels determinacion. For if yt had been their institution: yt had been necessary.

After admitting yt was after the Apostles / he proceedeth to answer Tertullian which saithe / that ys true which is first, that ys false which is later. But how cometh yt to pass / that he anwereth not that alleged out off our Savior Christ's ^e words: which calleth the Pharisees unto the first institution? that was belike to hard for him to byte upon. And the answer unto Tertullian is absurd. For he bringeth him in reasoning as he useth: that is / proving the thing in controversy / by that a like doubtefull. For if the rule of Tertullian extend yt self no further / then unto things he there speaketh of / and in debate: his reason is no reason / but a giddy turn about / wherein altowghe great pains be taken / yet there is no grownde gotten. Whereas Tertullian prove the / that Praxeas judgment of our Sau. Christ was therefore naught / because yt was new / and new because yt was not agreing with that given by the scripture. Moreover his answer to the place / presumeth that the government off the church is not a matter off faith / and salvation: which is the question. And as for his Phantasies he resembleth my reason with / they have nothing like. For beside that there were Christian magistrates / baptisinges in churches / communion ministered unto more then 12▪ in thapostels times / and off their allowance: the Apostles never taught that there should be no Christiā magistrates / no baptisinges hut in rivers / no eating off things strangled / &c. (the contrary off all which they plainly taught / ordaining only that the Gentiles should support the Jews / in strangled things / abut they rawght that a bishop and traching elder be all one / and never allowed that one Pastor should take the name off a bishop from all his fellows within 40. miles compass. The testimony owt off Tertull / maketh way for Montanus heresy: whereof I have spoken before.

Unto the next diuis. he answereth not. For yt being plain that the Apostles taught / that a bishop and elder were all one: because he had nothing to answer / he leueth that / and runnethe back to that handled in the beginning / off the equality off ministers. As for the testimony out of Zwingli: first yt is untrue / that the Anabaptists object this place against Zwingli, which I have pressed him with: secondly / yt is untrue that they objected unto him in the like case which we do. for in all their controversies with him / they have not one of those pointes now debated. And where he saith / Tertullian's words serve not / because thes degrees are not against the truth: let him deny if he dare / that this is the truth off God / that a Bishop / and another minister off the word / be all one. Then let him answer whether thes sayings (a bishop / and another minister off the word are all one: a bishop / and another minister off the word be not all one) be opposed / and set one against another. If he can deny none off these / then it ys justly concluded: that this invention off man / which hath made a bishop to differ from another minister off the word / is against the truth.

Because I love not that compass off words / which the D. delighteth in / I concluded shortly / and yet sufficiently to the understanding off any / that doth not willingly blindefolde him self. My argument ys: The best deciding off controversies, was in the apostles time: but that was not by archbishops: wherefor the best deciding of controversies, is not by archbishops. for proof that yt was not by archbis. / I set down that there were no archebishops then. Unto this deformed face off reason (as he calleth yt) let us see how formally he answereth. Firste he saith / we are not bound to the form of government, used by the Apostles: and therein referreth him self to that he hath / and shall say: where also let him take his answer. Secondly / that although the Apostles had not the name off Archbishops / yet they had the office: which I have shown to be a shift of the Papists. Then yt is to be observed / how he proveth that thapostels had the office of an archbishop / and in what good logic. Archbishops have the direction off many churches, the ending off controversies, &c. the Apostles had the same: therefore the Apostles were archbishops. by this reason a man may prove not only diverse / but contrary things to be all one: seeing contraries have diverse things wherein they agree. So that first this kind off reasoning hath the fault of those ridiculous arguments / which the D. propoundeth pag. 316. secondly yt taketh for granted / which is the question. For he presumeth that the Archbishops office keepeth the church in godly quietness: which is debated. Thirdly / to prove the Apostles authority in the churches (which is not in question) he hath made a great muster of testimonies: to prove the archbishops / not a word. After he citeth Ambrose / to prove that Apostles are bishops. Yt is great merueill if he keep good order in the church / for whose establishement the Answ. is constrained / thus to confound / and make a broile off all: and it is before confuted.

Howbeit admitting that the bishops succeed unto the Apostles in preaching the word / and governing the church: I have shown how that is a whip to drive the archbishop clean owt of the church off God. And this is here to be observed / that when it is said the bishops succeed unto the Apostles &c. that must be understanded off the Apostles bishops / and such as they instituted. For what bishops have better right to succeed the Apostles / then they? But those were (as I have shown) bishops off singular congregations / bishops which had no superiotitie over their fellowbishops / as Jerome doth confess. In the end he saith / If I can prove by good authority, that one was governor amongst the 12. Apostles: it shall not seme strange to have an archbishop over a Province. If upon this that one had government of 12. assembled in a particular place / he can conclude that there should be one governor off the ministers in a Province: I can with better reason conclude / that there may be one to govern all the ministers in the world. For if because one governed twelve / therefore one may govern all in Province: then because one may govern all in a Province / I will conclude that one may govern all in the world. As touching the number off those which are governed / there is not so much difference between the ministers off a Province / and the ministers off the whole church: as between 12. and the ministers off some whole Province. Towching the distance off place / yt is as much between a Province / and the whole extent off Christianity: as between a particular place off an acre breadeth / and some Province. Wherefore this reason is more favorable to the Pope / then to the Archbishop. Peters superiority shall be after seen: where also this sentence of Jerome shall be answered. Only here let it be observed / that the Answ. hath borrowed this reason off Pope Anaclete / which alledgeth it to prove Archbishops. And it is brought also of Pighius against the protestants / which denied that there owght to be any archbishops: as shall appear hereafter more at large.

The place off Calvin / is handled afterward: Bucer's upon the Ephes. I have answered. That owt off his book de Reg. Ch. the same in effect / hath the same answer. Howbeit it is here to be noted / how the D. thorough greedy desire off seeming to say somewhat / putteth down with one hand that he setteth with the other. For to the maintenance off the archbishop and bishop / here be brought two testimonies / one of Jerome / the other of Bucer clean contrary. If Jerome say true / that the superiority off one Bishop over another is by custom, not by institution off God: then is that untrue pretended out off Bucer / that it pleased the holy ghost yt should be so. For if it be off the holy ghost it is the institution of God. The D. therefore must forgo one off thes / seeing that both will never draw in one forowgh. The contrariety with myself, which the gloss chargeth me with / is for that pag. 349. I said owt off Eusebius / that as long as the apostles lived, if any went about to corrupt the doctrine, they dit it in the darck: and here (owt off the Apostle) I affirm / there were heresies, and schisms. Wherein what contrariety there is / and what a trifler this is / let the reader judge. saving that if there were any contrariety: it is not mine with myself / but Eusebius with the Apostle.

The Answ. would gird up his Archbishop in smaller room / that he might seme les grown owt off faschion. He saith therefore / the archbishop when a schism, or heresy riseth, determineth yt according to the law established by the church. Wherein he speaketh absurdly / considering that the church can make no other rule / whereby he may proceed in decision off schisms / and heresies: then in referring him to the rule off the scripture. So the sum off this answer is / the Archbishop may not determine the matter at his pleasure / but according to the word off God. As though the question were / by what rule controversies should be decided: and not by whom. For when the controversy at Antioch was referred to the Apostles / &c. in Jerusalem: it was not permitted unto them otherwise to judge off it / then according to the word. Now therefore let it be observed how aptly the D. answereth. To abat • the swelling authority off the Archbishop / I allege that in deciding controversies / yt is not permitted to any one to determine what is the will off God in that behalf. The D. saith / the archbishop must determine by the word off God. As though if the matter had been committed to S. Paul only / it should not have been with the same bond off keeping him to the word: yet yt was not so committed / as I have alleged. And if he think more succor for him in the words he used / the archbishop must determine according to the rule of the church: it is certain also that the company of Apostles / and Elders in Jerusalem / and what company soever meeteth together about the ending of such matters / is subject unto all lawful and commendable orders off the church / provided for the more orderly proceeding in that behalf. So that there being nothing here alleged by the D. which agreeth not unto the Apostles / and Angels themselves: the excessive authority off the archbishop doth still appear / in that he alone endeth controversies / which in the Apostolic church was not committed but unto many.

For as for that in the next diuis. (he compoundeth not controversies by himself alone) unless he mean that he hath his servants the Chaunceler / and Archdeacon / or some other off his own ch •• s • ▪ the book set owt by the archbishop of late / doth declare the contrary: and the experience off his visitacions / and deposing off ministers doth openly convince him of untruth. If he say he is not alone / he hath them following him: he must understand / that because ether the archbishop carrieth their voices under his girdell / or if they use the freedom which is meet / yet the approbacion dependeth upon the archbishops beck: he can no more account them to be diverse / then a mā and his shadow following him. And where in his former book he saith / the chief office off an archbishop is to compound contentions, schisms, &c. here being put to his shift / he changeth his speech / saying / it is his principal office to provide that contentions, &c. be cut of. Where he addeth / or else with the Princes consent he setteth an order in a provincial Synod: If there be any Synod / ether to take the judgment owt off his hand / or control the sentence given by him / it is like to be sore against his will. So that the remedy off this mischief / dependeth only upon the Cyuill power: which if ether yt be enemy to religion / or entangled with the present heresy (as hath / and may hereafter come to pass): the church being without remedy must languish / and pyne away.

He saith / this example of the matter carried to Jerusalem, proveth that every parish within yt self, hath no absolute authority to end controversies, but it behooveth to resort unto the chief church: the contrary whereof appeareth. For in that they both debated the cause amongst them selves / and when they could not agree / decreed to send yt to Jerusalem: yt ys sufficiently declared that they had authority to end it amongst them / and that yt was not wrunge from them by necessity off law / or pretence off higher authority: but voluntarily sent up to Jerusalem. Althowgh for this place in hand yt ys sufficient / that the deciding off controversies hung not upon the mouth off one man / were he never so sufficient: but were referred unto thassemblies of the Auncients / and ministers of the word. As for his old shifts of the weakness of negative arguments of authority, and of examples of the scripture, and thapostolike church: their folie is opened before. Here he taketh on against my unskillfulness in the scriptures, which referred that unto ministers which is spoken off all the church. Howbeit if he had cōferred the text / he should have found that thapostle speaketh of the Prophe thes / and not of the whole church. For he biddeth that two or three of the Prophets should speak, and the other (that is to say Prophets) should give judgment. Which appeareth by the reasō added / the sprite off the Prophets is subject to the Prophets. Therefore the D. corrupteth the place / and the argument to prove that not one minster / but many owght to determine of doutfull causes / is untouched.

Where I pressed him with this / that unity is fully maintained by the ministries which God hath ordained▪ he asketh how oft I will allege it. If it be a fault in me / to allege one place often upon diverse occasions: what is it in him to allege one thing so continually / upon the same occasion? If he would have opened his eyes / he should have seen that I used an argument proper to this place / and not used before. For where he pretendeth the archbishop was ordained to keep unity: I show that without him / unity is perfectly kept: whereunto he answereth nothing but as before. But I will serve his taste / and give him change. For the Apostle a little before exhorting to unity / bringeth also this reason: one body, one spirit, one hope, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God, &c. Whereby appeareth that the apostle took thes ones, to be sufficient to keep the people off God in unity. And if to have an archbishop had been so necessary: the apostle should have foully forgotten himself / having so fit a place to speak of him. And as this is aptly opposed / against the pretended peace by a Pope: so is yt likewise / against that surmised to be brought by the archbishop.

Where I ask / what buckler we may have to hold owt against the Papists, which come upon us with the name of traditions off the apostles, if we admit that there were archbishops ordained by them, whereof the scripture maketh no mention: he answereth there can be no danger in them, so they be not made necessary to salvation, but such as receive alteracion. Which although it be clean contrary to that he said before / where he bindeth us to observation of them / as I have shown: yet it shall be sufficient here to let him understand / that he hath utterly barred himself from this answer / for that he saith / this ministry of the Archbishop is necessary, yea most necessary. Now if it be most necessary, for preservation of unity off the church: yt is plain that it is necessary also for the salvation of yt. For the next diuis. I have shown how absurdly the D. defendeth this roving: where let the reader judge what difference there is / between our archbishop and Jerome's bishop / which differed nothing from a common minister / but that he had the ordaining off ministers. And here I call once again upon him / to show any godly and learned writer / which expoundeth this place of Jerome off an archbishop: to see if he be any happier in this place / then he was before in Cyprians. The Bishop off Salisb. affirmeth / that the very meaning off Jerome is, off every bishop in his diocese: and Harding in the end beaten down with the light off the place / is compelled to confess it. The next I leave to the reader to judge / by that alleged on both sides.

The D. saith / I refuse Jerome in a matter off story, yet I deny no part off his story: wherein he seemeth to have lost all commensense. For who (in whom there is any light off judgment) would say it is matter off story / whether the appointing off one in every church over the rest, is remedy against heresy or no? I • pertaineth to the story that one was placed over the rest at such time / and place as is set down by Jerome / likewise that the cause that moved them to bring in this custom was for preservation off peace: and none off thes is denied. but whether this cause were well assigned / and whether this supposed to preserve peace / banished godly peace: is the question. If this be a matter off story: story hath a larger kingdom then ever I heard off. Yet this he doth as absurdly charge me with after / in Iustines testimony: where likewise I deny no part off his story. If this be to discredit men / to say / their authority owght not to weigh further, then yt hath weight ether off scripture, or some reason grounded thereof: then I have discredited all writers from the Apostles time. For by thes weightes / I have esteemed the best. But I leave to be considered / what a popish tyranny he goeth about to bring into the church: which lifteth the credit of any / be he never so godly and learned / above that which I have here alleged

Where he saith / I confound Monarchy with Tyrannie, in that I ask whether the church be not in as great danger, when all is doon at the pleasure off one, as when one pulleth one piece and another another: yt is but a vain shifting hole. For although thes words (at the Pleasure and lust off one) be for the moste part spoken by way off dispraise / and I willingly confess I used them / because this Ecclesiastical monarchy / seldom or never deserveth better: yet my words following declare / that my comparison is between the Ecclesiastical government off one / and off many not between one governing tyrannically / and many moderately. For supposing that both the Archbishop / and those which govern in common be godly / and catholic: I affirm that he being one / is sooner drawn into error then many / sooner ouercaried with his affection then a godly company. In answer whereof / and reasons wherewith this is confirmed / the D. falleth flatly into that / wherewith he chargeth me. For in steed that he should have marched many godly / and learned ministers with one / he matcheth him with the multitude / and commē sort: and in steed off comparing one ruling by law / with many governing by the same / he compareth him with a lawles company: and in steed off comparing a little water with much of the same kind / he compareth a little conduite water closed up in lead, with much fennish and muddy. Which what leaden answers they be / let the reader judge. For in this path of reasoning which he walketh in / a man may prove it better to have but one eye / then two: because some see better with one / then other some with both.

His answer to that off preferring contention before wicked peace, that we have the true doctrine, and right administration of Sacraments, &c. and therefore no contention is to be moved: is as much to the question as if he had answered off the wether. For the question is not of the estate off our church / but off all generally: nor whether we have the truth of doctrine / &c. but by what way yt ys best kept. His answer to the similitude of fire stricken by flintes, is more fond. For I showing by yt / that contention is better then wicked peace: he answereth / the fire stricken may be in such a time that it may consume the whole country, and that it is madness to light a candell at noon days. As if the fire off the truth which I spake off / and so called off our Savior / can consume anything but straw / stuble / &c. or the Apostle were not glad that the truth came forth / allthowgh by contention: or it were noon day when the heavens thorough ignorance / and errors are like an haircloth / which is the time I spake of. And where having shown that the archbishop is not fittest to keep the church in possession off the truth / I admit by way off disputation that he were the fittest: adding that forsomuch as he hath as great force to keep men in error when they are fallen into it, this in commodity owght to drive us to some other government: he answereth / a monarchy being the worst kind of government when it ruleth by affection, ceaseth not to be lawful when it ruleth by laws. Where first / I refer the reader to that before / that it is one thing off the form off church government / another of the commont wealth: which is answer to all thes slanderous speeches here repeated.

Secondly / the church receiveth greater damage by an Archbishop keeping yt in error: then the common wealth by any outrage off tyranny. For there can be no tyranny in the government off the common wealth so extreme / wherein there is not something tending to preservation off it / and consequently off the church. But in the government off an Archbishop fallen from the truth / and in the swinge off his uncontrolled authority keeping the truth under: there is nothing but destruction and ruin / without step or footing off the favor off God towards the upholding off the church. Seeing therefore tyranny in the common wealth is not so great an enemy unto the common wealth / as a church tyrant unto the truth: there is better cause to have a Monarchy in the common wealth / then in the church: as that which cannot stray so far as the other / from the end whereunto it was ordained. Moreover / the cause why the Monarchy in common wealth cannot be condemned / is / for that it is one off those gouernementes / which God hath established / and allowed by his word. But the Archbishopric (to let pas that yt is contrary to the word off God) yt is sufficient in this consideration / that yt hath no allowance off the same. For thereupon followeth / that although the abuse off those things which God hath approved / cannot destroy the lawful use off them: yet this which hath no further allowance then of the mouth off mē / may upon experience off evil husbandry in the church matters / be worthily rejected. So yt may be seen / that although the Ans. would make one case off a Magistrate / and archbishop: yet there is as far distance between them / as between heaven and earth. Yt resteth to show / that the archbishopricke hath been so far from nourishing the church peace / that yt hath been the knife wherewith all the stringes / and knottes thereof have been cut in peaces. Againste which the Ans. alledgeth / first the testymonies off Cyprian, and Jerome. Wherein beside that I have shown / that they help him not: yt is before declared / that nether Cyprians bishop did anything at all / nor Jerome's (the ordination excepted) but by common consent off all the elders. Not only because they were at making off the church laws (under which wrinckel the D. would hide the excess off the archbishops authority): but also for that they had felowlike authority / in the deciding off controversies which rose in their several churches / according unto the laws.

After / where I quoted certain places out off the decrees / and other Canons / to prove the contention for thes offices: the Ans. acknowledgeth nothing there / that carrieth any sound that ways. Albeit the sound was clear enough / if he had not been deaf of that ear. For to what ende both in the Nycene Council (where the Metropolitans are first hard of / and when they were yet in the cradell) and in many other holden more then 200. years after / are there found so many canons / for the acknowledging off the authority off one Metropolitan in every Province? For the honor which he should have / the name he should be called by / for the place where they should sytte at their meatinges / for the bounds of their circuit? do not all thes declare / that there were which were enemies to that authority: and that those which were lyfted up into yt / had continual war one with another / who should be the first / who the greatest / who of largeste spread? What meaneth yt also that they changed the seats so often? so that the second / or third at one Council / was fourth at another / and none at the third: and contrariwise he that was none before / was chief afterward? What also that the teritoiries appointed by one Council / were abbridged by another / enlarged again by a third? Ys there any man of so small conceit / which doth not hereby understand / that this lifting up of one above the rest / was a bone caste of the devil to cause the ministers fall owt one with another: whereby place was made to heresies of all sortes / to the utter undoing of the church / and quenching off the gospel? And if the D. had been off so narrow understanding / that upon so often / and so diverse decrees in this behalf / he could not conceive the contentions / which this did breed: yet express words off histories / which testify generally of the cōtentions for those preeminences / of Councils (as it may appear by the canons off the Aphrican council which I have alleged: of the Tauritan / which showeth that the Frēshe bishops / strove which church should have the Metropolitāship / and how the bishop of Arles / and Vien̄a fell owt for the same) were ready to have informed hī of the truth in this behalf. Yea in the discourse of the Council of Nice / whereon the chief credit off the Metropolitan dependeth / he might have redd how almost all the Bishops assembled there / had quarrels one with another. Which when they were not (as doth appear) for diversity off judgment in religion: yt is easy to understand / that they were for the causes above rehearsed. And if he could be ignorant of all thes: yet our stories at home / which specify the combats / and going together by the • ares for thes causes / offered unto him a plentiful proof off all thes things. Whherby yt appeareth / that this Metropolitaneship was the very apple off contentiō / in schambling for which / the church was miserably hailed in peaces. Therefore forasmuch as the Apostle showeth / that the truth is kept by the bond of unity / and yt being moste manifest that thes smokie titles off honor / were cause off contention: yt followeth that so far they are from that pretended / off being bulwerckes against heresies / and schisms: that they were the principal hooks that pulled them in.

The Papists say that there may be a bishop of all the whole church / because there may be of a province: I / that there can be nether off one / nor other. They would establish the Pope by the Archbishop: and I overthrow the Archbishop by the Pope. This is great joining with the Papists. If I would take the advantage off your own words / first that there is the same reason of one over a diocese, and over a Province, and a gain that forsomuch as one was over 12. therefore one may be over a whole province: I need not seek for further defense / as I have there declared. But against this M. Calvin, and M. Nowell be brought: which say there is not the same reason, off one over the whole church, and over a province. let yt be so. For the one is a more prowder title / then the other: breaketh in further into the the prerogative of Christ / then the other. And if the church must needs be accombred ether with Pope / or Archbishop: let us grant so much to the archbishop / that to avoid the Popes iron furnaies / we would be content to grind in his myll: and to a void the scourge off the one / pass by the whip off the other: yet heroff followeth not / but that yt ys true I have set down. For although they are not in all pointes a like / nor every reason which concludeth the one / concludeth the other: yt hindereth not but there are certain reasons / which conclude both a like.

That this pointe off keeping peace in the church / is one off those which requireth as well a Pope over all the Archbishops / as an archbishop over all the bishops in a realm: I will go no further then to the causes yourself have assigned. For where I show that unity may be kept without an Archbishop / yow assign two causes / for which in keeping unity yt is meet to have an Archbishop: the one / to call the bishops together when there is variance: the other / to put them in mind of their dewties. And if an Archbishop be necessary for calling of a provincial council / when there is cause off assembly / and when the bishops are divided: yt is necessary there be also a Pope which may call the general Council / when there is division between the Archbishops / another cause of general Council. For whē the churches of one Province be divided from other / and the archbishops are at variance: as yow ask me / so I ask yow / who shall assemble them together? who shall admonish them off their dewties, when they are assembled? If you can find a way how this may be done without a Pope: the way is also found / whereby the church is disbourdened off the Archbishop.

Of the authorities yow allege / nether affirm that the government of an Arbishop over a Province / is convenient: only they affirm that there is more likelihood in the one / then in the other / and that there were archbishops in the church when there were no Popes. if one should conclude that because a man may touche the moon with his hand / therefore he may touche the son̄e: and yt be said for answer / that although yt be possible to touche the moon / yet it followeth not so of the son̄e: who is there of so little judgment which would gather of this answer / that one may touche the moon with his hand? And as this proveth that one may overthrow one impossible thing by another / without teaching ether off them possible: so that I have alleged 467. pag. pertaining to this matter (off one which against him that would allegde Jacob's two wives, to prove he might have as many as he list, should answer that although he might have two: yet yt followeth not that he may have as many as he list) proveth that one may overthrow one unlawful thing by another / without teaching ether off them lawful: which the D. calling yt a ieste, answereth not. And yet yt ys manifest that thes he his reasons / both here and there: which may in deed worthily be jested at: albeit there is no word in the example I brought / that carrieth the countenance off a ieste.

Unto that I brought of greater necessity off unity in the whole church / then in ane Province: there is nothing answered. here he saith I am greatly deceived, considering that the Pope claimeth his temporalities by Constantine, and his supremacy by Peter. If he listed he might have understanded / that diverse Papists which handle that matter off supremacy / allege Constantine's donacion for his temporalities only. I said not that the Pope maketh his claim only by Constantine. Althowgh yt may be shown that Sozimus (who yow say claimed the supremacy over all the church) made his claim not by Peter / nor by any authority off scripture / but by the Council off Nice / confirmed by the Emperor Constantine. Where he saith my supposition touching one Caesar over all the realms which have churches, is but supposed: I marvel that he is ignorant / that Constantine in the ende off his reign / had the Empire whole in his hands: and that all the churches had rest under him: that the Emperor off Rome is called lord off all the earth, Lord off all the world. So that if he would have appointed one bishop over all provinces under him: the bishop of his appointment should have had more then double the jurisdiction / that the Pope ever had / when his kingdom was largeste: the Pope him self making no further claim / then over the churches which bare the name off Christ / as Pighius him self confesseth. Wherupon followeth that his answer often alleged / to put a difference between the archbishop and Pope (the one taketh it to him self, the other hath yt of the gift of the Prince) is not worth a straw.

Where I show that the sufficientest minister, finding enough to do in one only congregation: no man can be hable to welde the government off all the churches in a Province: he answereth / that lack off will, or skill of some busy Pastors, to dispatch controversies which them selves be authors off, letteth not but that bishops, and archbish. may be sufficient for their charges. I make my argument off all / and he answereth off some: I of the moste fit / and sufficient pastors / and he off unfit. If he have any better answer / we will attend after yt: if not / then the archbishop is here again taken by default. And when ether he must needs let his Archbishop fall to the ground / or else deny that men off greatest gifts have found enough to do in the government of one congregation: being both unwilling to grant the one / and ashamed to deny the other: yt is manifest he crept into this corner. When I show that as the patrons off the Archb. may allege the supply off Archdeacons, Chancelors, &c. in their absence: so the popes advocates may pretend his deputacion off Cardinals, &c. he answereth / that the office off bishop, and Archbishop may be well excuted so far as yt is convenient for the estate of the church: which ys that in question.

Where likewise otherwhere I alleged to this purpose / that his bishop, and Archbishop having their charge assigned by him the same with a common pastor, the government only excepted: are thereby bound to pastoral preaching, and ministering off sacraments in all the parishes off their jurisdiction, which is impossible: he staggereth to and fro / saying the bishop hath to procure his diocese, ys much as in him lieth: whereas he is charged / for laying hand to more then he can gripe: He addeth / according to the laws of the church: he is afraid to say off God. that they preach where, and when they see yt moste convenient: by that rule never also / and nowhere: if in their sight yt be convenient. That yt followeth not because the archbishop is bound to minister the word, and Sacraments, therefore he must do yt in all the parishes of his province: which followeth well. For the bishop appointed by the holy ghost / is commanded to feed the whole flock committed unto him / even with the same feading Saint Paul fedd the Ephesians: that is / with preaching so plentifully / that all might understand the whole will off God. Whereupon followeth / that his charge is not to feed where / and when he seeth good: but to feed / and that to sufficiency all the people off his charge: as he that shall answer for the blood off all which perish / for want of sufficient instructiō by his mouth. And if there be (as he saith) the same deutie off the Archbishop towards his charge / as off the bishop towards his: the same followeth in him. for the charge off his Province being a like committed unto him: by the same reason he is bound to preach in one parte / he is bound in all: if not in all / in none.

Now to return: where he saith / preaching, ordaining ministers, and suppressing herysies is not committed unto the Archdeacon, Chauncelor, &c. but such as by rules off the church are permitted them: first / yt is his continual fault / that he should prove by the law off God / he proveth by the laws of our church / yea and by those which remained off the estate which was in popery. I might much better allege the laws off the reformed churches / which have abolished them. And if he will against the reasons brought / oppose authority / and binding me for my proofs within the compass off the word off God / wander him self in the broad feilde off men's laws in question: yt is time to shuite up the disputation / which is maintained by such gross begginge. Secondly how will he prove / that he may set over his charge unto another: or that yt ys more lawful / to commit other things pertaining unto his office / then those which he reserveth unto him self? Or if he may commit yt / whether he may commit yt to tharchdeacon / so far under degree of the ministry off the Archbishop / to whom those things belong: or to Chancelors / &c. which have no entrance into the ministry by any ecclesiastical institution. all which are shown unlawful / in the book of discipline lately set forth. And why may not the Pope cōmmunicate his charge with his Cardinales / as well as the archbishop with his Suffragans / &c? If he can show no word why he may do it / but it be only upon constitution off the church / that he casteth the overplus off his bourdē / vpō the neck of his Chancellor / &c: by the same reason the universal bishop / may discharge himself upon his deputies.

Where he saith / the universal bishop cannot ordain ministers, preach, and suppress heresies so well thorough all the church, as an archbishop in a Province: I have shown that albeit one be granted more impossible then the other / yet this also is impossible: which is sufficient to prove that in hand. And that is here confessed / when he is constrained to lay one part off his duty upon his Suffragans shoulders / another upon his archdeacons / &c. All which if he be able to bear himself: why doth he drive them unto others? Let the church at least be discharged off thes bourdens. If not: why hath he taken it upon him? If the Pope deserve condemnacion / for taking more upon him then he is able to do: the Archbishop / and bishops which bear him company in this point / cā not be separated from it. So this reason brought against the Pope / standeth fast against them. Moreover as the Pope cannot dispatch his matters in the whole church / so well as an Archbis. in a province: so can nether an Archbis. in his Province / so well as a bishop in his diocese / nor he in his diocese / so well as in a particular cōgregaciō / do the duties of a bishop. So that this answer no more shutteth owt the Pope / then the archbishop / or lordly bishop. But he saith / the archbishop may have conference with his archdeacons, and Chauncelours, which the Pope cannot. He seemeth to have forgotten the conference by letters / and intelligence which the Pope hath had from time to time / so particular / and precise off churches furtheste off him / as if he had been in the bosom off them: which pointe Master Tyndale hath well set forth. And would to God there were the tenth part off the fruit off the archbishops conference unto the good off our church / which hath been off the Popes to the overthrow thereof. And if conference by mouthe be necessary: Rome is not so far but as it hath been / so it may be had. For besides that stories aforde us diverse examples / off churches which have sought the appeasing off their controversies / from places further removed then Canterbury is from Rome: the marchandrise off unity / owght to be so precious / that we should not doubt to sails for yt unto the Indes / and Garamantes. so that if there be such a mystery in the number of one / to keep unity: the distance of place owght not to hinder this monarchy off the whole church: if for no other cause / yet for this / that when the archbishops (of whom hangeth forsoothe the churches pea •• ) are fallen owt: there may be some to accord them. That as the ministers have lord bishops / and they the archbishops: so the archbishops might have a Pope / in reverence off whose authority / they might easelyer be conjoined. And in deed by so much more yt is necessary in this respect / there should be a Pope over the archbishop / then ether archbis. over bishops / or bishops over ministers: as the rēte / and diuisiō in thē being chief / is more hurtful then when it falleth amongst those in lower places. For when schisms and heresies light amongst them / they spread so much further / as they with the arm / and power off their authority / are hable to flinge them further then the other. The differences between the Pope and the archbishop, serve but for stuffing. for I excepted in my reply / the corruptions off doctrine: and yow owght to have understanded / that superiority of one bishop over all in the catholic church / chosen by consent / doth not necessarily draw thes accidents of contempt of Princes, of making their decrees equal with the laws of god, &c. Yow should therefore have made your comparison / between an universal Bishop chosen / and not breaking in violently / meinteining the truth / and not fighting against yt / &c.

Unto that I alleged / that things passing by voice in the church of Alexandria, the distinction off bishop from the rest off the elders in the church there, might come in without Saint Marckes consent, he saithe nothing. And in deed if he had obtained that which he would so fain / that this alteration was made in S. Marckes time: yet he shall never obtain this / that S. Mark had his hand in that change: unless he will say / the Apostells / and Apostolical men were authors off all things done in their time / in every singular congregation. Unto that I said / the words (from Saint Marcke) may be taken rather exclusiuely, to shut out S. Mark: he answereth / that none off judgment will grant that: where notwithstanding he that hath any judgment doth easily understand / that the words have many times that significaciō; and that they are so here: I am content it be tried by the other reasons propounded. I alleged that S. Marck cannot be autor off that distinction, because he making those things diverse, which the holy Gost made one, should make the story he wrote suspected. He answereth / yt ys certain thes were no otherwise distinguished, then the holy ghost appointed them: which I have shown how shameless yt ys. Then / that my collection is ungodly, to imagine so off the gospel written by the Euangeliste. As if I did not in plain words / deteste all suspicion of the untruth off that Gospel: and therefore caste away his false surmise / which might give occasion thereof. He saith / thereby appeareth at the least that yt was ancient. I deny not: but yt is manifest also / that there were other corruptions in some places of the church / as ancient.

The Answ. (as his custom is) taketh his pleasure off me / because upon the words off Jerome (this custom was at Alexandria) I gather that yt was not in other places. As if yt were not manifest that Jerome noteth where yt began: and if it had beginning at Alexandria / yt was there when yt was not in other churches. If it had had further passage at that time; Jerome should have done yt injury in cōcealing yt. For it would have made much for the credit off that distinction. Which I alleging in the next diuis. the Ans. saith nothing unto. Nether is there any so rude an idiote / which knowethe not that a notable / or unwonted thing said off one man / place / or time / is spoken emphatically / and excludeth all other. But as the D. will not understand a general proposition / unless yt have the sign (all, or every) before yt: so he will not understand that any thing is appropriate unto another / unless yt have thes words only, alone, &c. And it is clear how intolerable the D. is in his insultations / seeing Jerome in saying that this custom gat ground by little, and little, declareth the truth of my collection. And where he answereth to that I objected off the confounding oftentimes off priest / and bishop / that the bishop is a priest, but not contrariwise: he first answereth not to the argument. For this is not to be confounded / when off two things one is verified of the other / but the other cannot return / and be verified of his fellow. Secondly / his answer is overthrown by his exposition of the place of Cyprian / which by one priest in the church, understandeth one only bishop in a church. for thereby it followeth / that ether there was but only one priest in the church of Carthage: or else thes words bishop and priest, were all one: so that whosoever was one / was the other. The next division hath not a word to purpose. for authorities are quoted / to prove that the Apostles appointed Bishops in diverse churches / which no man denieth: yea I have namely alleged yt before

Where I show that forsomuch as the Archdeacon is reproved of Jerome / for preferring him sefe before an elder / because the scripture maketh him inferior unto the elder: by the same reason / a bishop is to be reproved / for that he preferreth himself before an elder / which the scripture maketh his equal: he answereth / he seeth no sequel, nor likelihood. notwithstanding I trust there is none that hath but his common sense / which doth not easily understand / that yt is no more lawful for those which are ordained equals by the scripture / to lift them selves one above another: then yt is lawful for him that is appointed to be under / to exalte him self above his superior. for although he be in greater fault / which being under exalteth him self above / then he which magnifieth him self above his equal: yet as the ordinance off God cawseth. the one to be unlawful / so yt doth the other. The seconde answer is / there may be degrees amongst the ministers, notwithstanding all this, for that Jerome saithe there was a degree. This is a very blunt answer. I allege both authority off the scripture / and Jerome's own reason against the distinction off one bishop from the rest: and he answereth that the distinction is good / for Jerome so saith. Thirdly / although Jerome confess that a bishop and an elder be all one by the scripture: yet he confesseth superiority off a bishop before another elder. but he saith they are all one by the scripture: and that the bishop is superior by custom. And here he stitchethe in a parenthesis. For after he had alleged Jerome / confessing that a bishop and an elder are all one by scripture: he addeth (as they be in deed touching the ministry). Therby desirous (as yt seemeth) to abuse his simple reader / in making him believe that Jerome mente / that there was by the scripture difference in policy / between a bishop / and another minister: which overthroweth the whole intent of Jerome. For he showeth that this difference (which the D. in other places termeth / for order, and Policy) between a bishop and another minister / was not by the scripture / but by custom: and began at Alexandria. And seeing Jerome putteth a difference / between the bishop specified in S. Paul / and the bishop in his time: if the Answ. say that S. Paul's bishop differed frō another minister / as touching order / and policy: I would gladly know of him / how Jerome's bishop and he which is now / differeth from another minister. If he answer (as he hath done before) that they differ not as touching the ministry, but as touching order and policy: thē he putteth no difference between S. Paul's bishop and Jerome's / which is overthrow of all that Jerome saith / and he hath flatly affirmed: where he maketh Jerome's bishop instituted by the church / after the Apostles times.

After he blusheth not to say / that Jerome maketh a difference between S. Paul's bishop / and another minister. For although he broilethe / and mingleth all upon a heap / thinking through confusion off all / to cause his treachery not to be seen: yet after he doth plainly utter yt / in answering Chrysostom's words / the same with Jerome's. But before I come to his reasons whereby he would prove this: I will set down the words off Jerome / whereby his vnhoneste dealing may be better perceived. First he saith / a ministre that is to say a bishop: and a little after / the Apostle doth plainly teache; that a bishop and a minister are all one. And in an other place / a Bishop and a minister are the same: again / although with the ancient fathers, bishops and elders were all one. Here appeareth manifestly / that Jerome saith / a bishop and another minister be all one with the Apostle / and with the ancient times: that he expoundethe one by the other / that he turneth one off them upon another. for as he saith that bishops be ministers: so he affirmeth that ministers be bishops.

Now of the two reasons / to prove that Jerome put a difference between a bishop / and an elder / this is the first: the one is a name of age, and the other of dignity. which is as much to say / as they differ in deed / because they differ in name: and that the ancients / and elders off the people off Israel / were not their governors / because the name aff ancients is a name off age / and the other of honor: or as if the eldest brother were not the heir / because the one is a name of age / the other of honor. Whereas Jerome's purpose is plainly to show / that although the names be diverse: yet the things are all one. And if there be any dignity shut up in this name bishop / the ministers are partakers of it: considering that he affirmeth that they be bishops. And if there be any inferiority noted / by the name off elder: the bishop hath his parte in yt / for so much as he is an elder. Althowghe the truth is / that by the word (dignity) Jerome mente nothing but an office: and called the name off bishop / the name off a dignity / because the office drawethe dignity with yt. And because of reverence which the younger give to thelder / as also for that ministers and bishops / were often taken from them which were well grown in age: they were called elders. So that although the name (elder) be the name off age: yet yt draweth as much honor after yt / as the name off bishop.

His other reason is: Jerome saithe an elder is contained in a bishop: which he bringeth as a proof to show / that Deacons are therefore under elders / because elders and bishops be all one with S. Paul. So that he hath not only depraved Jerome's mind: but drawn his words to a clean contrary sense / of that he meant. for even / by the same words whereby Jerome would prove they be all one he would prove them diverse. And although Jerome's manner of speech here be somewhat hard for that purpose / considering that things which are all one / cannot properly be said to contain one another: yet both by his plain words in other places / and manifest suite off his disputation / he made his meaning so well known / that no man (unless willing) could stumble at his phrase. And if the D. will thus hunt at syllables: yet this speech off Jerome's is so far from helpinge him / that yt doth utterly overthrow all his hold he snatcheth at. For where he upon thes words in a bishop is contained an elder, would conclude that every bishop is a minister, but not every minister a bishop: all men see that in taking Jerome by the lips without considering his meaning / the contrary off that the D. gathereth / doth follow: that every minister is a bishop / but not every bishop a minister. For that which is contained under another / is more particular / and les then that which doth contain: as because the king is contained in the magistrate / therefore every Kinge is a magistrate / but not every magistrate a Kinge.

And albeit yt be no marvel / although he which striveth with the truth / should be stricken with such a guiddines off spirit / that he should not be hable to discern / not only between the morning / and noon days / but not between noon days and midnight: yet because the smattering in logic which this book maketh show of / might be so much as not to be so grossly abvsed: in casting with myself wherefor he should allege this / in the ende yt came to my mind / that by thes words (the elder is contained in the bishop) he would have understanded / that the elder is contained under the bishops government. If he mean so / there is as great oversight in his grammar / as before in logic: ogicke: considering that the tongue (as I suppose will bare no such sense / certain ys that the autor will not suffer yt. For he assigneth as reason why thapostle did not speak of the elder / for that an elder is contained in the bishop: and therefore speaking of thone / he needed not to speak of the other. Whereas if he should mean / that he would not speak of an elder / because he was in the government off the bishop / to order as he thought good yt had been a witles saying / unworthy of Jerome (considering that thapostle speaketh of a deacon which is under a bishop). Which shall be answer to his like dealing with Chrysostom. That Jerome speaketh of an archdeacon in that place / I have before declared.

But the D. asketh / why I went about to deface Jerome, if he nether make for our ether bishop, or archbishop? for that there could be no other cause but this. I have shown that I saved him his due / and convenient honor: the cause why I gave the reader warning / to try him by the rule off the word off God / was because he seemeth in some places to alowe that distinction off bishop from an elder / which is diverse from the institution off the Apostle. After he setteth down his places often before repeated / and asketh whether I think those mente of every pastor in his parish. I have shown how although upon occasions before recited / there were not in every congregation at that time a bishop: yet there were in diverse. he saith further / that the pastor in every congregation from the beginning, had his authority over his flock without any such constitution. I grant he had his antoritie / but not so sovereign / as after he obtained by this evil custom: considering that he had an equal parte of government / with those joined with him in the administracion off the church. And this although yt be debated between us: yet the D. frameth his answer as though there were no such thing. For albeit for the moste parte there were no moe pastors thē one in a parish: yet there were moe elders. And albeit Ier. speak of those elders which had the ministry of the word: yet •• at excludeth not those / which were only for government.

Where he saith moreover / the care of the whole flock was committed unto him I see not how he can conclude thereof / that the bishop was over a whole diocese such as ours. yt might rather be concluded / that he had charge off one only congregation: considering that although him self alone were thought hable to care for one congregation: yet there is none which would think himself alone / able to care for a whole diocese. And beside that the churches should be in miserable case / if none should care for thē but every bishop in his diocese: let the D. stretch owt the bishops jurisdiction as far as he can / yet I have shown owt off the Emperors letters to the bishop of Alexandria / that the elders off the same church where he abode / had aioynt care with him over all. Which is also confirmed by the testimony the Ans. hath alleged owt off M. Fox: where not the bishop only / but his church also / is said to have the oversight off the precinctes which pertained unto him. And Jerome himself / showing that the elders owght to govern in common with the bishop, cannot be thought to give unto the bishop the whole care of the church / as peculiar unto him alone: unless a man will make him contrary to himself. For if they have the government in common with him: they have the care in common / for so much as there can be no government without care. So that where Jerome saith / the care off the whole church was committed unto one: yt must be understanded so / as yt may be level with his other saying: especially whē he saith / that a bishop differed from his elder, only in ordinaciō.

Which may appear by the practice off the churches / about the time wherein Jerome wrote. For it was ordained that the bishop should not judge off any matter, but in presence off his clergy: if otherwise, his sentence should be void. Whereby appeareth / that another canon permitting the judgment off subdeacons, and other inferior orders unto the bishop alone, must be understanded / alone without other bishops / not without other assistance. Which is also clear / considering that the Council opposeth the decision off their causes / unto that off elders and deacons: which was to be doon by six and three bishops / beside the bishop off whom they were accused. This government in commē appeareth also / in that when one off the clerckes would go ether to the widows, or virgins, he must have as well the leave off the elder, as off the bishop. Likewise / that it was ordained / that the deacon should acknowledge himself, as well the minister unto the elder, as to the bishop. Here it is also to be observed / what that ordination was / wherein only / the bishop differed from the elder: how poor a thing. For beside that it cannot be understanded off the election / which was common to him with the people / and the eldership: yt was decreed that when there was a bishop to be ordained, two bishops should hold the book over his head, one other bishop should pronounce the blessing, and the rest of the bishops with thelders present, should all lay on their hands. So that ether there was another order at Rome / thē is here appointed; or else the bishops preeminence was only to pronounce the blessing / and hold the book / the elder having as good right to lay on his hands / as he. Where he saith / his place against the Luciferanes, with another owt off his epistle, is more clear: he bringeth no reason at all / nether are there any words to enforce that. Unless by church one understand diocese, or Province such as ours / which I have shown to be far from the use of those times: or unless we grant that there can be no schisms / nor heresies in a particular congregation / whereof there is to good experience: or that yt is impossible there should be many elders in one church / which I have declared / and shall (God willing) declare further to be untrue: I say unless thes prove an archbishop / or a lord bishop: there is nothing in those words off Jerome. And yet the D. that he may help his weak reasons with strong words / must upon thes conclude yt impossible, to expound Jerome's words otherwise, then off bishop, or archbishop such as ours.

Where he concludeth upon that the elders chose one amongst them whom they made bishop, as the captain is chosen of the the soldiars, that therefore the bishop was over diverse congregations: there is no likelihood off reason. And where to give yt some / he threapeth two things at my hand / the one that this word elder, signifieth only a minister off the word, the other that every minister of the word had his several flock: he doth but dalie. For he knoweth well that I hold that the word elder / reacheth to such as govern only: and that there were in diverse congregations more then one / which preached the word of God. Where he saith / those which I call obscure villages, were little cities, such as with us, Eli, or Peterborowgh: I leave it to the reader to judge / how much I have therein squared from Erasmus / who calleth them peevish little Towns. Where he saith / he callethe them base cities: I am content the reader take which he liketh best. For both in proper speech cannot be true: for to cal a town / and a little town / and a peuishe little town / a city: is not for any thing I know / wonted. Howbeit I will not here strive: yt is sufficient that I have shown / that there were bishops in other places which were no cities. And even in this the D. letteth fall the Popes decree / which he defendeth in another place: which forbiddeth as well to place bishops in base / and small cities, as in uplandish towns.

And albeit the D. be not hable by thes words of Jerome / nor by any other which he hath brought / to prove that the bishop had any further reach / then unto one only church: yet (forsomuch as yt is not here question off the victory / but off truth: nor what the Ans. is hable to prove / but what may be proved) I will not deny but in Jerome's times / the bishops upon occasions before off me alleged / had enlarged their bounds in such sort / that there were certain congregacions which belonged to their oversight / and whereof they were called bishops. But I appele first to the institution off God / and use of the purer times after the Apostles: and then I answer / that a diocese was not the twentieth part of that which they have now. As appeareth by that alleged before owt of the Councils / and by that Jerome saith / that their elders under them governed in common with them: which they could not have doon unless they being hard by / had made one body with them. For nether could the bishop do anything in his congregation / without the elders: nor they in theirs / without him / but they made one Senate amongst them. The practice whereof is yet to be seen in certain reformed churches▪ where the elders off certain small parishes round about / make one body off Senate with the elders off the principal town / meeting together once at the least every week. Sauing that they have altogether abolished that evil custom / which wrong the name of bishop from all the rest unto one / and granted the ordination to him alone: there being one amongst them which hath only this above the rest / when they assemble together to propound matters / gather the voices / giuethe exhortations / and that also for a time / and not during his ministry. I have shown that the argument / wherewith the Ans. would off a bishop conclude an archbishop / and off one over a diocese one over a whole Province is too bad: and it is not here to be repeated. This place requireth to show / that albeit the Metropolitan was now received in the East partes: yet ether he was not in the most partes off the weast / where Jerome was: or Jerome did not acknowledge him. Wherein I will first propound my arguments / and after answer to his objections.

And first even with the self same places he would prove the archbishop / is he overturned: as of that against the Lucifer. For if it be certain (which I have shown) that Jerome speaketh off the authority that every bishop hath in his precincte / and plain by Jerome's words / that the authority he speaketh off there / is such as not only hath no superior / but no mate: yt must follow / that above the bishop which Jerome propoundeth / there can be no archbishop. Again where he affirmeth that the bishop, elder and deacon under the gospel are in the same place, that Aaron his sons, and the Levites were under the law: yt may be concluded that forasmuch as every bishop in his charge / hath the same authority Aaron had / and yt is certain that there was no ecclesiastical authority over Aaron: therefore by Jerome there owght to be none above the bishop in every church. Moreover upon that he saith / that all bishops succeed unto the Apostles / yt may be reasoned / forsomuch as the bishops have the places off the Apostles in their several churches / and it certain that the Apostles had no dominion one over another / but equal authority▪ as both hath been / and shall be (God willing further shown): that bishops owght not to have any bishop to whom they owght to be subject.

Beside this / speaking off the orders in the church in his times / he reckenethe up deacons, archdeacons, elders, archelders, and bishops. If there had been any Archbishops where hē was / or he had allowed of any: there could never have been so fit a place to have spoken off him / considering that his purpose was / to show those degrees which were. Seeing therefore he maketh no mention off him: yt is apparent that there was none / or that he allowed off none. Moreover he putteth this difference between the Montanistes / and the Catholics: that Catholics had their bishops as the successors off thapostels, giving unto them the first place: but the montaniste heretics had in the first and chiefest place Patriarchs, in the seconde certain which they called Cenones, so that the Bishop with them / occupied but the third. Now if the bishop was the higheste degree in the catholic church / and if to have a Patriarch (which the D. saith is all one with a Metropolitan, and Archbishop) over the bishop / was in Jerome's judgment worthy off this reproach: I leave yt to the readers judgment / what was Jerome's opinion off the office off an Archbishop: and whether the same blot which he marked in the rowte off Montanistes / be not in our church / where there is above the bishop both a Patriarch off England / and a Patriarch off all England. But because the D. will not suffer him self to be bound with any cords but off authority: I will annex his authority / off whom he would seem to have borrowed the greatest pillor off the Archbishop. Musculus therefore after he had alleged the sentence off Jerome to Euagr. off equality off the Bishop off Rome / and Eugubium / &c. concludeth thus: Jerome when he wrote that, did not think off the power off the patriarches, metropolitans, and primacy off the bishop off Rome: but esteemed that unto every bishop, did belong the same care, and power in his ovne church.

Now to the Ans. shifts. The first is out off Jerome to Rusticus / that every ecclesiastical order is subject unto her governors: whereof I would gladly know what he concludeth. If an Archbishop: there is no apparance. And the Ans. being so bountiful in translating / hath here cut off the sentence in the m • ddle: for what purpose / let other judge. my answer is therefore / that he must prove by Jerome that there was an archbishop / or that Jerome allowed off one: before the sentence off Jerome can profit the Archbishop. His seconde is / that the testimony off Jerome touching the equality off the bishops, doth not hurt the authority off the Archbishop: considering that it is not denied but that every bishop, and minister are equal as touching the ministry, but not in order, and policy. which distinction although I have confuted / and shown also immediately before / that it is clean against the mind off Jerome: yet here yt is to be observed / that as his argument out off the place against the Luciferanes for the Archbishop / ys borrowed of the Papists: so this shift is Hardinges / whereby he would avoid the force off the bishops answer. Harding saith that touching honor, dignity, and power off bishoply order and office, and off pristhood, as good, and as great a bishop in that respect is the one, as the other: and the bishops off thes little towns, have as great a merit in regard off any their virtues, and as great power concerning the order off priesthood as the bishop off Rome, &c. Yet touching power and authority off regiment, the Patriarchs off Constantinople, &c. be above the bishops off other dioceses. The bishop to this shift answereth with Erasmus / who saith that Jerome seemeth to match all bishops together, as if they were all equally the Apostells successors. And further alledgeth another place of Erasmus: where out off that place off Jerome he affirmeth plainly / that the bishop off Rome is above other bishops, only by riches. If by riches only: then not by government / as Harding and the Ans. affirm. And where Harding under this word merit / would hide himself as doth the Ans. the bishop answereth / by merit is mente without all question preeminence: which he D. alledgeth / is used off Harding against the bishop: so yt ys Latomus (another Papists) shift against Bucer. unto whom Bucer answereth: the Bishops were in every respect at the first, equal one with another: as is before alleged.

And where otherwhere he pretendeth allowance of this Popish distinction / by the godly writers: the truth is nothing so. For as touching Calvin / he hath openly depraved him. He only showeth upon 2. Cor. 10. verse. 8. that there are diverse degrees off ministers / and that one is above another / as an Apostle above a pastor / which is confessed: but that one pastor is above another / which is the question / he hath not a word. That owt of Heza / is only a recital what was done / not what he allowed: considering that (as hath been shown) he utterly condemneth those offices off Lord bishop / Archbish / &c. beside that in showing that they came in process off time after the Apostles: he hangeth the D. cause on the hedge which would have this distinction in the time of the Apostles. Nether hath Hemingius this distinctiō / where the D. supposeth / he only saith that they are equal as touching spiritual regiment. What they be in external / he referreth to another place: which when the D. bringeth / he shall have answer. And whensoever yt cometh I think yt will overthrow his before: that there are some ministries of the word and Sacraments only, some for government also. for although he allow a government unto him he calleth bishop / larger then to another minister: yet (I think) he cannot show that he shutteth owt the other out off the external government. Ad also / that I have shown / that even when thes smokey offices came first in / nether the Doctor / nor pastor were severed from government off their several congregation. For that wherein the metropolitan then exceded the pastor / was a preeminence or honor without authority: so that even then / yt was an evil distinction / off certain ministers off the word and sacraments only, and certain which did govern.

His third answer is owt off the B. off Salisbury: which affirmeth that there were archbishops in Jerome's time. But it is to observed / that that assertion off the bishop / proceeded off mistaking Jerome / and some oversight. Which is clear by that in another place / the bishop auowcheth owt off Jerome • o Nepotian / archbishops: where there is no mention off Archbishop in any sort. And although the place which the bishop vouchethe / be in the Epistle unto Rusticus: yet there is no mention off an Archbishop / as I have before declared. This assertion therefore cannot help the D. which hath no better ground. His last proof is Erasmus / who saith that metropolitans have some dignity above other bishops: another of Hardinges bucklers against the bishop in the same place. Where yt is manifest / that Erasmus kept his old custom / off carrying fire in the one hand / and water to quench yt in the other: and tempered the truth with some leuaine off the corruption off those times / thereby to procure safety unto him / and to his books: whilst those which could not abide to look upon the truth barefaced / might at the lease bear yt being muffled If the Ans. will make his owtecries / that I discredit the autor when I cannot answer them: beside that I discredit not moe then he / I refer me unto the conscience off all men / whether yt be true which I have said. And yet do I not say the tenthe parte / off that which I could allege written off him / by men off excellent learning / and zeal.

But let yt be considered / how both corruptly contrary to the mind off Jerome / and vnconstantly contrary to that him self hath written off this place / he hath blinded thes together. For if it be true that he hath said / that Jerome's meaning is / that the bishop off Rome differeth from other bishops only in riches: then it is manifest that in authority / he differeth not from the bishop off Eugubium / a small town in the same province. And where he saith / that Jerome in making the bishop off a base city equal with the rest, referreth that to the deacons which in some places were preferred before the elders: who seeth not but that speaking against the truth / he was so amazed / that words coming from him / reason stickethe yet in his pen. For what reason is there / that Jerome should therefore say the bishop off Eugubium was equal unto the Bishop off Rome, notwithstanding the bishop off Rome were his superior, because the deacon was preferred in Rome before the elder? What give is here to join thes together? or what cause was there that Jerome should speak basely off the metropolitans authority over the bishop / because the deacon was preferred before the elder? ys there any reason that because the deacon did injury unto the elder: therefore Jerome should speak sparingly of the metropolitan / • nd do him injury also? moreover if this was the occasion why he spake so off a bishop / because certain deacons were preferred before the elders: considering that that custom was only at Rome (as Jerome himself declareth) why should he make the bishop off Tanais / a small town in Egypt / equal with the bishop off Alexandria / the metropolitan city there? and the bishop Rhegium / equal with the bishop off Constantinople? For seeing that mischief off the preferment off Deacons before the elders / was not in other places then in Rome there was no cause why he should speak thus off thē / if that had been the cause which Erasmus alledgeth?

Where he addeth / when Jerome saith the bishops and elders were equal, that is to be understanded, that the elder was equal with the bishop in that they were both preferred unto the deacon: I marvel the Ans. is not ashamed to allege that saying / without all color off truth. For I have alleged diverse other places out off Jerome where he speaking absolutely / without respect off any deacon / affirmeth the bishop and elder all one in the beginning. And what a ridiculous disputation doth he make Jerome to hold? For it is all one / as if a mā after longe discourse to prove Londē and York equal: in the ende should conclude / that York were equal with London / because they be both greater then Nuington. Now let the reader judge / what unworthy outcries the D. useth / both before and after / off guilful dealing, and shifting the place of Jerome, thereby to drown the voice of the truth: and whether I have interpreted it according to his natural meaning / and as other godly / and learned have done: and whether he contrarily / to maintain his first saying / hath used shifts partly popish / ouerthrowinge the answers off those which have travailed against popery / as well as mine: partly fond / and childish / which he would bear owt with Erasmus authority / without any weight off reason. Likewise how he after dallieth in his longe translation / and repetition of Jerome / to no purpose. That a doctor differeth from a pastor / hath been shown, that he is inferior unto him appeareth / not only because the Apostle placeth him after / where he doth moste exactly set down the order off preaching ministers: but also that the gifts required for that office / are (as hath been shown) less. whereunto may be added the practice off the elder churches / which esteemed the doctor always under him whom they called bishop or Pastor. That the elder which governeth only is inferior to the Doctor: appeareth both in that his gifts be fewer / and that the Apostle giveth more honor to him / then to the elder. That Deacons are under those elders: for that their charge is to serve the tables only / and therefore but a part off the church / where the elders government is over the whole. Likewise for that the deacons charge / being in things pertaining to the nourishement off the body: must give place to that off the elders / whose watch is over the souls. Al which (the ministry off the Doctor only excepted / which is shut up commonly in the bishop) is confirmed by continual practice off the church: which upon all occasions off speaking off this ministry / placeth the bishop before the elder / and the elder before the deacon. and precisely the foresaid Ignarius / showeth that the deacon is under the elder / thelder under the bishop: where that thelder which only governeth and not only he which teacheth is understanded (at which hole the D. would creep out) shall be after in proper place declared. So appeareth that order in the ministry / and diversity off degrees are defined off by the word of God: and that even in the Ecclesiastical ministry / there is inequality although all pastors be equal amongst them selves: and withal that order standeth without the archbishop / or any other devised ministry.

Chrysost. brought by me / is shamfully corrupted / and the corruption opened in the former diuis. his allegations (there owght to be rulers in the church, and order to punish faults) so erksomly repeated / are Idle: yt being confessed / and withal shown / that there is none off those but are done without his ether bishop / or Archbishop. where having no reason he falleth to exhortation / that I would not stand in my conceit, but think the government off his bishop better then that laid forth by us: if he can compound with the word of God / with the reformed churches Apostolical / and present / with the purest writers old and new: I with my conceits (as he speeaketh) will be ready to hold the archbishops stirup. That he affirmeth the form off government wherein one is above all, necessary in our common wealth: although I have shown that I greatly allow of it / yet that yt is necessary / and that the Prince / and Parlemēt can not upon occasion alter yt / especially without breach off the law off God / which only maketh the necessity we speak of / ys an untruth / apparent to all that have ever tasted off holy / or human letters. And although yt seemeth he hath covenanted with himself / to speak all he supposeth may please: yet his knowledge answering not his w • ll / he is found here to abridge the authority off the civil pour / which he thought to have stretched owt / and to bind it to that which the lord left at the liberty thereof.

Where he saithe / the external government off the church under a Christian magistrate, must be according to the kind and form of government used in the common wealth: it partly hath / and further (God willing) shall appear / that the government of the church debated is certain by the word off God / and unchangeable. As for his bolt so soon shot / and with so small drafte of reason: yt is brokē with the wind off his own mouth. For where he maketh the external government through out his whole book / at the pleasure of the Prince / which is his principal hold: here he teacheth that yt is not in the princes pour unless she will ether put of / or devide her crown with others / to put down the archbishop. for the external government off the church (saith he) must be according to the kind, and form off government off the common wealth. Whereby also followeth / that where the popular estate / or the rule of the best beareth swaie; they cannot although they would / have an archbishop. yea herupon followeth / that ether the Canterbury / or York archbishop must leese his head. For yt is concluded off his high divinity / that as there is but one prince in the whole Realm: so there must be but one Archbishop. His reason (the Prince cannot else be supreme governor off all estates, and causes ecclesiastical:) to say no more / is senseless / and hath no knot with that whereunto yt belongeth. As if when Roome had both Emperors / and consules / the Emperor could not be chief governor off the consuls / because the Consuls were equal amongst themselves. I confessed yt inconvenient, that there should be one Caesar over the world / but that yt may be: he alledgeth Calvin that yt is moste absurd: to what purpose? what contrariety is here? yt is enough for me that there may be / and that lawfully / a Prince of larger extent of dominion / then the archbishop of his archbishopricke / although the prince would grant yt him: which utterly overthroweth his cause / and this being alleged off me afterward / is clean passed by. For his defense consisteth in this / that the Popes widenes off jurisdiction over churches / ys unlawful / because he hath yt not of the gift off Princes: and in this that the external government of the church / must be according to the form / and kind off government in the common wealth. Which is also manyfestly confuted there / whence he hath borrowed this temony. For there he addeth that although yt were granted / that there might be one Caesar over all the world: yet yt followeth not that there may be one bishop over all the churches. which notwithstanding must needs follow / if the external government off the church / must be according to that form / and kind off government used in the common wealth. ^a For the distinction which supposeth certain ministers of the word / and Sacraments only / and certain to have to gether with the administration off them / the government also: I refer the reader to that before written. his vain cavil that I desire to be uncontrolled off any but off God, is answered.

The D. accuseth me off falsehood, for that I charge bim with citing Augustine, and Crysostome at large. Towching Augustine: that he was so alleged appeareth / first pag. 583. and both he / and Chrysostom pag. 296. Where he saith he used that large quotacion, only once in Muscul. Cyril. and M. Fox: he could hardly do yt oftener in the two last / considering that as I remember / he alledgeth them once only. but touching Muscul. beside the place I charge him with / he left his adversary twice to his wide works. Where he remembereth not that he sendeth to any other writers, but with places quoted as particularly as he could: his memory which is so miraculouse at other times / is here but miserable. To help yt / beside this place off Cal. he sendeth to his Institutes / without any further restreinte as appeareth pag. 132. again pag. 74. in his former book: for he hath quoted yt in this later. Likewise that Damasus calleth Stephen Archdeacon / without any direction pag. 344. Also alledgeth Gratian / Polidore / Volateran / without any restreinte 589. pa. I omit that he sendeth towards the end off his book / to the large feilde off godly interpreters: that diverse times he giveth the book only / where he might give the chap. the chap. only where he might give the section: all which are contrary to that he setteth down. Whereby may appear what a hard mouth he hath / and howe I speak sparingly off this kind off allegation off his.

Charged here by his fond allegacion off Cal. Institut. he answereth / I knew there were sundry editions. I did so: but whether yt be absurd that he should leave both the best / and moste usual to take that which is worse / and in the hands of few (unless he mente to play under the boorde / that men should not understand) I leave to the readers judgment. His reason (he had noted yt, labored it, and was acquainted with yt) is very simple. For is yt meet that because he had made his book a little heuier with yncke / he should be wedded so to yt / as to neglect the common commodity? how he is acquainted with yt I know not: but I trust yt hath / and shall appear / that there is no more friendship between him and his book in thes matters / then between light and darkness. But yt is folly to reason with him: for he addeth Doctorlike / that he both hath, and will so use yt still. Howbeit how cometh yt to pas / that even in his former book he hath alleged the later edition? belike ether that was some tributary allegacion: or else the latter was better to him there then his noted one. Howe unjustly he chargeth me with uncertain direction / in ether all / or the moste off thes he setteth down: I leave to be judged off that I have said in that behalf. The rest off this diuis. with the next / is nothing but bare / and bold affirmations / reproaches / and repetitions. The next to it hath nothing but trifling and unlearned questions / before answered. That set down off the inconvenience off many speaking together / according to the proverb (many may sing but not speak at once) is not (as he saith) needles, but made way to the necessity of having one which otherwise equal / should have some preeminence in that action. The next hath nothing but railing words / with repetition off repetitions / and that beside the matter: considering that the cautions I put off the moderator in the assembly off ministers / I put not as always observed off the D. Bishops / and Archbishops / but as those which ought to be. In asking