A Second Reply to an Answer Made by Doctor Whitgift Part 1

The reply to the D. 8. Tract. off Archbishopes / and Bishops.

Unto the first / and seconde division / being beside the question / I answer nothing. Before I come to the third / forsomuch as the place off the Evangelists / which is before / is general / and striketh at all the lofty / and swelling titles off the ministry: I will set it here down in the foreward off the reasons / brought against the names off Archbishopes / &c. as that which speaking against all the smoky names / must needs comprehend thes. In the D. answer therefore / whereby he goeth about to prove that thes words gracious; or bountiful Lord's, make nothing against the great names / and magnifical titles off the ministers: this is the first / that Saint Mark, and Muthewe have no words bearing any such sense. Wherunto I answer / that as yt is a general rule almost throwghowte the scripture / that repetitions are not without some usury / and increase: so in the writings of the Evēgelistes / yt is to be observed almost everywhere. And therefore yt ought not to have been strange / if other Evangelists speaking off the authority only / S. Luke added also touching the titles.

Secondly he answereth / this clawse yt shall not be so with yow, is not referred unto those words (are called bountiful and benefyciall) but unto ambition, and tyrānical dominiō only. whereunto I answer / first that forsomuch as the things there affirmed of the Ministers / and the word off gracious Lord's, is as well affirmed off kings / as the word off bearinge dominion: therefore those words (yt shall not be so with yow) are as well referred unto the words (gracious lords) as unto the word off dominion. Secondly your answer is contrary to the authority yow have alleged out off Calvin. For if yt be true / that thes words bountiful benefactors, be all one with the words off Matthew kings exercise authority over them, and your self grant that thes words (yt shall not be so with yow) are referred unto the dominion / and exercise off authority: yt followeth that they must needs be verified also / off bountiful benefactors.

Thirdly he answereth / that this word bountiful is off no such imperiousnes, but it might well agree to the disciples, and consequently to ministers. Wherunto I answer / that it is no word off empire / but annexed unto yt: and therefore that which cannot agree to the ministers / whom God hath shut from any such dominion. And that it is a word off great porte / and statelines / appeareth forsomuch as not only the Egyptian kings were so called: but as the D. him self confesseth / the Hebrews did so call their princes. Now he must understand / that that Hebrew word which he hath set down (bountiful) was nether given unto the Hebrew princes by flattery off their subjects / nor wrong from the subjects by tyrannous ambition off their princes: but was a title given unto them by the holy ghost. Therefore it is apparent / that S. Luke in those words / ether respecting the custom off the profane kings / or of the good princes of the Jews in 〈◊〉 paste: mente that style was proper to the civil magistrate / and to high for the low countenance off a minister.

Again this title off munificence / and bountifullnes as Aristotle showeth / is much more then liberal: and is not said but of those / which besides a great readiness of mind to give / have also wherewith to bestow great gifts / and that to many. So that yt is no marvel / although this title be given off S. Luke unto princes / as they which for the moste parte / are only hable to use the bounty answerable unto that title. Again where he saith / that thes words off S. Luke are to be expounded by S. Matthew, and Mark, which have for (bountiful) they that are great: yt is manifest by his own confession / that this title off bountiful importeth some great pomp / and outward statelines. And thereby followeth that S. Matthew / and Luke using thes three words (princes, great, kings) to note one thing: yt must needs be that this word bountiful, being as yow say all one with (great) is forthwith all one with the other two words / princes, and kings. Last off all / Calvin giving a reason off the signification off this word / a little after the words yow have alleged / saith that theruppon yt cometh that men pay tributes and impostes, that princes may have to maintain the porte, and magnifycence off their estate. Whereby yow might understand / that this word doth draw withal a more glyttering / and glorious estate / then can agrree to the simplycitie off the ministry off the gospel.

Where also against me making two members of the sentence off our S. Christ / one touching the authority / and domyniō of the civil magistrate / the other touching his title / and name / the D. out of Calvin's words would prove / that they be all onethe must understand that Calu. words are not full enough to carry that meaning. For when he saithe / that S. Luke calleth kings bountiful, in the same sense that S. Matthew saithe they exercise authority: his purpose is to show / that they pertain / and are referred both to the description off his estate / and to put the difference between him / and the minister of the word. For otherwise they cā not be said to he all one / seeing one of thē is verified off the other: and Luke beside this title of bountiful lords, maketh mention off exercisyng authority, and Domynion over them. Therefore if this be an absurd saying (they which exercise authority over them, exercise authority over them): yt is clear that Calvin's meaning is not / to confound one of those with another. and if yt should / yet the Evangelists words will not suffer yt.

Where further he saith / that the name off graciouse Lord being a name off svperioritie, and reverence, may therefore be given to ecclesiastical persons, as well as unto civil: I can see no cord off reason which bindeth thes together. For the name of Kinge / Prince / Duke / &c. names off superiority / and reverence / by his reason may be givē to ecclesiastical persons: which him self denieth. Therefore the D. must seek another distinction then this. Nay let him devide titles off dignity when he will / making as he doth thes two off superiority / and reverence one member: whatsoever he maketh the other / yt will fall within their compass. Furthermore the names off Erles / and Dukes are no more proper to civil magistrates in our country / then the name off gracious lord. For as the one is a note off one lyfted up into high degree / so the other: and as the name off a lord with us / is not the name off an office / but off honor only: so be the names off Dukes / and Erles. For men being borne dukes / and Erles are not therefore borne magistrates: which notwithstanding they should be / if the names off Dukes / and Erles were proper to the civil magistrate.

In the name off Archbishop / the first parte which signifieth a prince / is proper to the civil magistrate / and cannot without robbery / be translated from him unto Ecclesiastical persons. Which is to be shown first in that our Savior Christ / and the Apostles whensoever they speak off the superiority off the ministers off the new Testament / do so carefully avoid that word / with all those which fall from yt / or are derived of yt. Then in that Aristor. saith / the word dominion, doth signify an imperious rule, as Beza observeth: where he showeth that it cannot agree to the ministers of the gospel. Thirdly evē by the D. own confession in this place. For the greek word signifinge a prince / which name he confesseth proper unto the civil magistrate: yt must follow that the name off Archbishop / which is as much as prince off bishops / breaketh upon the possession off the magistrate. whereupon followeth that that name is not only injurious / and tyrannical in respect off the order off ministers / while it challengeth princedome over them: but presumptuous against the magistrate / whyleste yt pulleth that name unto yt / which is proper to him. So that if it were lawful for him / to exercise any superiority over his fellow ministers: yet yt ought to be by another title. My major which yow say is overthrown, hath not so much as felt any attempt. for the ouerthowe thereof were to prove / that the names proper to the civil magistrate / belong unto one minister over another: which is not once endeavored. The minor (which is that a cyuil magistrate is severed from the ecclesiastical persons by lofty titles) hath nothing against yt / but this that gracious lord is common to both civil magistrate, and ecclesiastical person: which is taken for granted / where yt ought to be proved. for all though he say / I may see it: yet he showeth forth no light off reason to make me see yt by. as for that he alledgeth / that in some places he is called Dominus, which hath but small lordship: I have answered yt in another place / where I show that lord with us / cannot be so taken / unless he mean a Christmas lord / our lord off misrule. Now both the propositions standing / the conclusion is moste treue. When as also the title off Grace, is given to ecclesiastical persons / which is given unto the prince / and doth not agree unto any under the degree off a Duke / the next unto the prince: I would gladly know what difference there is / between the titles off ecclesiastical persons / and the civil magistrate / so great that he must needs be very blind which doth not see yt. And where the D. saithe / that ecclesiastical persons may show forth the countenance of their degree: he nether showeth what that is / and must be believed off his bare word / for there is no proof at all. But off the pomp in other things / there shall be (God willing) spoken off afterward.

Wheer the D. saith yt is the point off a Sophister to strive for names off things, where there is agreement off the matter: unto the reasons / and examples I alleged to prove / that the very bare use off certain names is unlawful / although the things noted by them be not / he answereth not a word. And if those examples be not strong enough / to obtain that at his hands: I would know of him which maketh so small account off names / whether a man which confesseth him self mortal / may be called by the name of Jehovah / &c. The answer to the first propositiō is insufficient. I could take exceptions to the examples here aliedged / as that thes words I have said yow are God's, are not given unto magistrates that they should be saluted by the name off God / or that one king should be called the God of England / another the god off France (which were not tolerable / and approaching to the pride off Antiochus) but to this end that the authority which they exercise according unto God / might be acknowledged in them: yet I answer generally / that those speeches be therefore lawful / because the Lord in his scripture hath communicated them with men. wherefor if the D. will prove that the title off archbishop / proper unto our Savior Christ / may be imparted unto a mortal man: he must show that as the name off God / light off the world / &c. is given unto men in the scripture: so is also the name of Archbishope. which when he shall never do / yt ys in vain to pretend thes examples. For as yt had been an intolerable arrogancy for any man / to have ether taken / or given the authority off God unto the sons off Adam / unless he himself had so honored them: so is yt full off presumption / ether to give or take this so high a name / which being the several off our Savior Christ / was never by no word off his / laid out in common unto any simple man whatsoever.

The D. answer unto the second proposition by distinction (the ignorance whereof he doth so often times reproach me with) is full of disorder / and hath nothing sound. first yt faulteth in that yt rendeth a sunder things which cannot be separated / and that two ways: one in separating the government of the church by pastors / doctors / &c. from the spiritual. For when the ecclesiastical ministry hath respect to the sowle / and conscience: when yt is called the ministry off the spirit / spiritual: when they which 〈◊〉 yt / are called ministers in the kingdom off heave •• when the outward preaching / excommunication / and other discipline which they use / be spiritual: this separation off the outward government off the church from the spiritual / and making off them opposite members / doth not distinguish but destroy the government off Christ. Thother is that where our Savior Christ governeth his church spiritually / both with his spirit / and word: he placeth his spiritual government / only in that he toucheth the hearts off his elect, by his spirit. And where our Sau. Christ useth the external ministry off men / not only in distribution off his word / but also off his spirit: the D. maketh thexternall ministry / to serve only for the dispensation off the word / and not off the spirit. whereas he ought to have considered / that as Christ him self sitting in heaven / now teacheth by the mouth of the ministry: so he giveth also his spirit by the same ministry / in which respect yt is called the ministry off the spirit. Seeing therefore the external government off Christ in his church is spiritual / and even that inward touch off the spirit of God / is not ordinarily / but by the subordinate ministries which God hath appointed in his church: yt is manifest that that distinction / that Christ hath no subordinate pastors underneath him in the spiritual government, is false.

And if no man should touche yt / the D. hath given it the fall him self. For where he saith / Christ in the spiritual regiment is the only Pastor: by and by he saith / he is the only archbishop in spiritual government. Which if yt be true: then hath he also in the spiritual government / other bishops underneath him. for he cannot be said arche or chief bishop / but in respect off other bishops under him. And if this distinction were not false: yet is it here idle / and owt off place. for S. Peter owt off whom I cited this testymony / appropriateth to our S. Christ the name of archbishop / in respect off the external regiment: that is to say / in respect that every bishop had a particular charge of ministry underneath him. And where the D. faith / there are other archbishops beside Christ in the external government: seeing he cannot deny / but the authority off Christ in every province / is greater then off his Archbishop: I would gledly know off him / when he hath given the name off Archbishop to another / what name he leaveth unto our Savior Christ / whereby that excellency / and preeminence off authority / may be noted. if yt fall owt that there is no name above an archbishop: I see not how he must not be constrained / to confess that that name is excessive / which being the greatest that can be in ecclesiastical government / is given to him that hath not greatest authority.

The other fault of this distinction is / that yt confoundeth / and shuffleth together the authority of our Savior Christ / as he is the son off God only before all worlds / coequal with his father: with that which he hath given off his father / and which he exerciseth in respect he is mediator between God and us. For in the government off the church / and superiorytie over the officers off it / our Savior Christ himself hath a superior / which is his father: but in the government off kingdoms / and other common wealths / and in the superiority which he hath over kings / and judges / he hath no superior / but immediate authority with his father. Therefore the mouldinge up off the two estates / and gouernementes together / is to lay the foundations off many errors. Last of all admitting this distinctiō / how cometh yt to pass that this point of his / that there are many archbishops in the outward regiment off the church, being that which is denied: is left without any assistance off reason out off the scripture?

Here remaineth only to prove / the title Head off the church / to belong only to our Savior Christ. I must therefore desire the reader to tourne unto the 6. diuis. pag. 181. where the D. confesseth as much as I / that Christ is only the head of the church. If Christ be only head: then that I set down / that the civil magistrate is head of the cōmonwealthe / and not of the church / standeth. But if the magistrate be head off the church: then Christ is not only. Howbeit having for fear off the owtcry off all / made a little courtesy unto the truth: he forth with lifteth up his heel against it / and will have the civil magistrate head also off the church / whereupon must follow infynite absurdities. first the doctrine off the Apostle is by this means clean overthrow̄ / which showeth that this title Head of the church / was given to our Sau. Christ / to lift him above all pours / rules / and domyons / ether in heaven / or earth. Where if this title belong also unto the civil magistrate: then yt ys manifest / that there is a pour in earth / whereunto our Savior Christ is not in this pointe superior. And by the same reason that he may give the civil magistrate this title / he may give him also that he ys the first begotten of all creatures / the first begotten off the dead / yea the redeemer of his people which he governeth. For these all are a like given unto him / as dignities whereby he ys lyfted up above all creatures. And beside that the whole argument off the Apostle in both places / lead to show that this title Head off the church / cannot be said of any creature: yt ys confirmed by the demonstrative article / wherewith the Hebrews esyecially / whom Saint Paul followed / use to tie that which is verified off one / unto him self alone. For he saith he is the head: as if he should say / he and none other is the head of the church. Again if the church be the body of Christ / and of the civil magistrate / yt shall have two heads: which being monstrous / is to the great dishonor off Christ / and his church. So also should come to pass / that the church having the magistrate for head / is accomplished / and made a perfect man without Christ: so that the knittinge of our Savior Christ / should not be an accomplishmente off that which lacked / but an addition off that which is to much. And if the church be planted in a popular estate: then forsomuch as all govern in common / and all have authority / all shall be head there / and nobody at all: which is another monster.

Now if we consider the causes / why our Savior Christ ys called the head of his church (which are that as the head is the higheste parte in a man / above which there is none always joined with the body: so he ys the chiefest / and highest in his church / inseparably knit with yt / and that as the head giveth sense / and moving unto all the body: so he quickeneth / and to gether with understanding of heavenly things / giveth strength to walk therein) I say when thes be the causes: yt ys manifest / thes things nor no one off them / ether agreing / or having any possibility to agree with any creature in heaven / or earth / ether towards the whole church / or towards any partycular assembly: that the name off the Head of the church / cannot be without great violence / given unto any simple creature. And if yt be said that the civil magistrate is a subordinate / and mynisteriall head off the church / as the magistrate being head off the common wealth / hath other which may be called under heads beneath him: he must understand that those heads are appointed / because the chief magistrate cannot be present with the whole body off his people / nor in his own person perform the office of a head unto them all. But forasmuch as Christ is never severed from his body / nor from any parte off yt / and is able / and doth perform that wherefor he is called head / unto all his church: yt ought not to seme strange that there may be a subordinate head in the common wealth / where there can be none in the church.

And as yt hath certain ground in the scripture / that this title of head of the church / is to high to be given unto any man: so hath yt been confirmed from time to time / by writers both old / and new / which have had the honor off Christ in any convenient estimation. Let us therefore see whether this ialousie over the title of head of the church / not only in respect off the whole / but in respect also off a particular congregation / have their approbation. Cyprian saith / there is but one head off the church. The bishop off Salsburie affirmeth the same. Augustine proveth that the minister which baptizeth / cannot be the head off him which is baptized / because Christ is the head off the whole church. And in another place / that Paul could not be head of the churches which he planted / because Christ is head off the whole body. which reason should be nothing worth / if ether Saint Paul / or any other minister might be a ministry all head off the church under Christ. And if the name of ministerial head off the churches which Paul planted / cannot be given unto him which was a governor next / and immediately under Christ in that same kind off government in the which our Savior Christ is head / that is to say spiritual / no not then when there was no Christian magistrate to make challenge unto that title / and to bring yt into doubt / whether yt belonged unto S. Paul / or to him: yt cannot be that the magistrate may take unto him that title / whose gouernmente doth not approach so nere unto our Savior Christ's / as he is head off the church.

And as they have taken away this title from the ministers over their flocks: so have they from Emperors / and princes in regard off their subjects. Ambrose saith / yt ys the greatest honor the Emperor can have, to be called son off the church: and in the same Epistle / a good Emperor is within, not above the chutch. Calvin teacheth that there is but one only head of the church, which is Christ: that the name doth only agree to him, that in that name he can have no substitute upon earth. Where if yt be said / that he mente that off the Pope over all churches: although the disputation be directed against the Pope: yet his reasons are general / and prove that no man may usurp that title. But to clear that matter / in another place he showeth / that it is to much to attribute unto a Kinge the name of the head of the church: and that they are blasphemous, that give him yt Now where he saith here / and repeteth p 301. that in respect off the supreme authority which god hath given unto the magistrate, he may be called the head off the church: the supreme authority over the church / being only given unto Christ: yt must follow that this name only belongeth to him.

Where partly in this diuis. but more fully pag 301. he saith / although in respect of life, and nutriment given, and spiritual blessings poured into the body off the church, our Savior Christ is only head: yet touching the external society, and outward government, the magistrate also may be head off the church: yt is first to be noted from whom this provision was brought him. For as Harding borrowed yt off Pighius: so the D. pourueiers had it from Harding / or frō both. For to overthrow this doctrine that Christ alone is head of his church / this distinction is brought / that according to the inward influence off grace / Christ only is head: but according to the outward government / the being of head is common with him to others. For answer whereunto / I refer myself in parte to that I have written before / off the absurd distinction between the government off the church by the ministry off men / instituted off our Sau. Christ / and his spiritual gouernmente. For that if there be no head but Christ / in respect of the spiritual government: there is no head but he in respect of the word / sacraments / and discipline administered by those whom he hath appointed. forasmuch as that is also his spiritual gouernmente. And even in the outward society / and assemblies off the church / where one or two are gathered in his name / ether for hearing off the word / or for prayer / or any other church exercise / our Savior Christ being in the myddeste off them as mediator / must needs be there as head: and if he be there not idle / but doing the office off the head fully: yt followeth that even in the outward society / and meetings off the church / no simple man can be called the head off it. Seeing that our Savior Christ doing the whole office off the head him self alone: leaveth nothing to men / by doing whereof they may obtain that title. Wherefore whosoever in seeking to profit the church according to his calling / doth anything to the preservation off this body: he doth yt as an eye / an arm / an ear / or as some other member / and not a • head off it.

Now to his distinction owt off Andreas. who after he confesseth that Christ is only head / as he governeth the church with his spirit: addeth / that for so much as the church off God being visible / is not only ruled by the word / but by sword off the magistrate / that there be so many heads off the church / as rulers off countries. Where first let it be observed / that he quoteth no place: peradventure leste some ether words / or circumstance might give the answer. Then that he enhaunceth his credit with the title off a learned man: where for anything I have redd (and I have redd his defense off the real presence against Beza) yt might well have been left out. Howbeit both for his corruption in judgment / and otherwise: I refer the learned reader / to that Ursinus a learned man hath written against him. Whereby he may understand howe this commendation was without discretion / only to serve the present tourne. And I beseech yow Sir / who is this Vergerius whom Andreas reprehendeth: which you have so nakedly set down / clothing Andrue so gorgiously? This is is good reader Petrus Paulus Vergerius / with whom whether the other be once to be compared / ether for sownd knowledge / or innocence off life / I leave to their judgment which have redd / and know̄ them both: and withal whether if an argument of authority be off such weight as the D. will have yt / he hath by this testimony made a hole in his own cause.

In the distinction yt ys first to be observed / that as Andrue dissenteth from the truth: so he doth from Pighius / Harding / and the D. for when he opposeth the government by the sword / unto that off the word / making yt off the word a piece off the spiritual government / and then saith that there be diverse heads off the church in respect off government by the sword: he giveth to understand that his Judgment is / that in respect off the ecclesiastical ministry / our Savior Christ is only head. Which may yet better appear in that he saith / there are so many heads / as rulers of countries: and saith not so many heads as bishops off churches. And if this be not his mind: yt will stand the D. upon / to bring owt other words to declare yt. Now Pigh. Hard. and the D. upon the bare word off Athanasius / will have heads in respect off the ecclesiastical government: they one over all churches / he one in every diocese. Wherein the reader may see / that if this rottē seed take rooting / howsoever the Princes honor be pretended / the fruiete pertaineth also to the bishops. In which distinctiō off bishop head off his / but not of the whole church: albeit the D. would gladly seme to slip from the Papists / yet they will not so parte with him. For beside that I have shown how the godly learned / upon that our Sau. Christ is head / conclude as well against heads of particular churches / as against one head off the universal: this Judgment off his is the deuinitie off two Popish Councils / Constance / and Basil. Where the Bishops (those especially before partners in this robbery off our Savior Christ with the man off Rome / and namely he off Antyoche) displeased that the Pope alone should have all that boutye: to make Roume for them selves / shut his headship up in the compass off his own country: opening their eyes to so much truth / as served their own tournes.

But to come to the point off Andrues distinction: let yt be considered first that our Savior Christ ys in one respect creator / and preserver of man kind / in another redeemer / and upholder of his church. For he created once / and preserveth daily as God coequal with his Father / and holy spirit: but he both redeemed once / and daily gathereth his church / as mediator of god and man. in which respect even yet in his infynite glory he enjoyeth / he is / an shall be under his father / and holy ghost: until having put down all rule / and power / he shall render the kingdom to his Father. Secondly yt ys to be considered / that as our Savior Christ doth thes in dyners respects: so he doth them by diverse means. To wit that as God simply he hath ordained certain means / to serve his providence in the perseruation of man kind: so as God and man / he hath ordained other certain / for the gathering / and keeping off his church. Thes grounds laid / yt is to be considered / whether the exercise off the sword by the magistrate / come from our Savior Christ preserver off man kind / wherein he is coequal to his father: or as mediator off his church / wherein he is inferior. Where forasmuch as our Savior Christ's kingdom was not of this world / and that against horrible disorders in his church / punishable by the sword / he did not (one extraordinary whipping excepted) draw yt: and considering that this lawful ordinance off God / is not only in the church / but without: yt is manifest that our Savior Christ in respect off his mediatourship towards us / exerciseth not the civil sword. For in that he said his kingdom was not off this world / he made an opposition not unto the wicked off the world / as other sometimes but unto Caesars authority / which was the ordinance of God / whereto he was falsely charged to have made claim. And in that he drew not the sword against opē disorders / it argueth that that was without the compass off his vocation: otherwise he would never have suffered the glory of God / to have been trodden under feet. And in that the authority off the sword in heathen princes (although not a like used) is the same ordinance off God that in Christian: thone proceeding off God immediately / and not from our Gauiour Christ as mediator / the other doth likewise. But why should we wrestle further in this point with Andrue? seeing the D. which buildeth of his authority / in confessing that the magistrate is ordained off God immediately / standeth with us that he ys not ordained off our Savior Christ / in respect that he is mediator between God and us. heruppon followeth that the office off the civil magistrate is properly one off those means / which serveth the Lord's providence in the preservation off man kind. Now if the civil magistrate should be the head off the church: he must be an under / and subordinate head off Christ. Consydering that the lord hath committed the government off the church / unto our Savior Christ / and that otherwise there should be two heads off yt / whereof one were not under another: which is absurd. But he is not an under / and subordinate head off Christ / considering that his authority cometh from God simply / and immediately / even as our Savior Christ's: and therefore not the head off the church.

To this disputation pertaineth that which the D. else where in synuateth / off the Magistrate comprised, albeit not expressed in the 12. 1. Corinth. under the word gouernementes: but in another treatise more plainly. in the first place to hale in the Archbishop / in the second to thrust out the elders: which notwithstanding is easily refuted by the same place. for if the civil magistrate should be comprehended under that word off government / and be one off the officers off the church there mentioned: yt should follow that he should be an under officer / not only to the Apostles / but also to Prophets / and Doctors. For S. Paul putteth thes as the principallest ministries in the church: as the degres off first, second, and third declare. But I think the D. will not make him under officer to all thes: therefore he is not comprehended under that division / but is of another sort off officers. Secondly yt should follow / that Christian magistrates were in that time / yt being granted that the offices there reckoned / were already in the church. But the D. saith / that there were then no Christian magistrates: yt followeth therefore by his own words / that the magistrate could nether be expressed / nor contained in those words. if yt be said that although the D. say there were none / yet I / and the truth yt self say otherwise: I answer that all the gifts / and offices there reckoned / were not only then / but were then most plentiful. Considering therefore that the Christian magistrate / was then a gift more rare then at other times after: yt cannot be that he is comprehended under that words Vppon all which yt falleth / that the Magistrate is head off the church as Andreas saith / in respect off that he exerciseth the sword. Likewise it goeth to ground which the D. putteth / that by the same reason the magistrate is head off the commē wealth next under God, he may be also head off the church. Which is a gross petition of the principle / being nothing but the contrary off that I set down.

That out off Chrysostom / that certain women were head off the church off Philippos, will not serve: considering that he speaketh not off any cheifdome in pour / or authority / but off excellency in godliness / and zeal. And the greek word he useth signifying also a sum / needeth not to be taken in signification off head: but that Chrysost. meaning was / that in those weomē / there was as it were a sum off the church / in whose godly virtues / a man might behold the estate off the whole. Nay yt cannot but with great violence there signify a head / for then he should have said / they were heads of the church: and not head. And if it should: yet yt must be understanded / that head there is to say the chief off the women off that church: which is nothing to purpose. for I am sure yt was not Chrysost. mind to prefer them to the Bishops / &c. The cavil also that the magistrate being but a member off the church, is not thereby barred from being head: is unworthy answer / seeing yt is manifest off what members I spake: and the Bishop off Salsbury speaketh even in the same words.

If yt be said / that the magistrates honor ys touched here: I answer that then the Angels them selves are dishonored / which having government of kingdoms / and nations / add also of the churches which they serve: have not / nor owght as I have shown to have / the title off head off the church. Nay those which go about to gratify Princes / with the spoil off our Savior Christ / are found dishonorers of them: as those which leave thē no place in the church of Christ. for if the magistrate be head of the church of Christ / which is within his domyniō thē he is none of yt. For all that church maketh the body of Christ / and everyone of the church fulfilleth the place of one member of the body. So that he that is not of the body / can have no place in the church. if yt be further said that he hath injury / considering that he bringeth such singular comfort / and profit unto the church / establishing the pureness off religion / overthrowing the corruptions / repressing sin / crowning virtue: beside the weight of glory which attendeth for good Princes in the life to come / and that they are honored with most honorable names / which owght more then content the moste excellent servants off God / which are but simple creatures: yt must be also considered / that as the godly magistrate being head of the common wealth / bringeth singular commodity unto the church: so do the godly pastors / which be the church officers / bring singular fruit unto the commē wealth. For whilst they conquer by the word / riot / adultery / covetousness / pride / idleness / &c. whereby diseases / beggary / translations off inheritance from the right heirs / needles dearthes / seditions / rebellions (whereof everyone is an engin able to pull down the common wealth): they may be well called the horse / and chariot of the common wealth. But yet as the pastors cannot therefore be said / officers of the commē wealth: no more can the magistrate / which by vertwe of his civil office giveth singular assistance unto the church / be called properly the church officer. If (as I see) it like some to call magistrates a kind of officers in the church / because they being members / by public calling procure the quiet thereof: they which are disposed may so speak / I will not strive. But why I esteem the title off head of the church / not to agree unto any simple creature / etherin heaven / or earth / I have shown my reasons / let the church Judge.

The questiō is not whether the name of Archbishop is / but whether it owght to be continued: and if the continuance of it in our church / draw such credit / the putting down of it in all other churches throughout Christiandome / must needs bring great prejudice. But it is lawful: therein is the question. Which although he hath often̄ affirmed: yet we are come to an end of the decisiō of this question by the scriptures / and no word brought to confirm it. Wherein ether he is little beholding to his cause / which will minister him nothing to say: or his cause to him which leaveth it thus destitute. For although the reasons against yt should be insufficiēt: yet if he would have this title continue in the church / he should have by showing the lawfullnes of it owt of the word / both persuaded those which have an evil opinion of it / and confirmed them which waver. For the sixth diuis. let the Judgment be the readers. Before I come unto the 7. I will for the cause alleged in the beginning off this treatise / take in here the residue off the 20. off S. Math.

Yowr trans • ation the kings off the Gentiles, whereby yow would prone that he putteth not a difference between the cyuil / and ecclesiastical power / is faulty: as that which without necessity / goeth from the proper signification off the word. For it signifieth naturally / not the Gentiles / but simply any nation / in which signification yt is taken oft in the old / and new testament: and not only when the Israelites are joined together with other nations / but even when the holy ghost speaketh of the Jews a part / he calleth them by the same word here used. Therefore it appeareth / that there is nether any such meaning of the Evēgelistes: and if there were / yet he gaineth nothing. For it is easy to answer that he therefore maketh mention off the Princes off the Gentiles / forasmuch as there was no King / nor sovereign civil principality amongst the Jews. Whereupon our Savior was compelled / to take example off princely authority from the Gentiles. And if there were any small fragments of civil government in the Jews hands: yt was the high priests / and other ecclesiastical persons. Which beside that yt was bastard / and degenerate from the institution off God: it was both more ambitiously sought (as may appear by the ecclesiastical stories) and more tyranically administered / as appeareth in scriptures / then any the most disordered government amongst the Heathen. So that if our Savior would have set forth a patron off ambition / and tyranny in government: he needed not have sought it amongst the Gentiles / when he had it at home.

Yt may be said further / that he taking his example off the civil dominion off the Gentills / would thereby pull owt off the people's heads / that fond opinion amongst them / and the rest off Jews: that they at the coming off the Messias / should be Emperors off all the world / and all the Gentills be their subjects. Especially considering this petition off the sons off Zebedy / was grounded off that idlephansie. And if need required / it were not hard to bring examples off diverse Kings / and principal magistrates amongst the Gentiles / which both came unto their government modestly / and used yt with all equity / and commodity off the subjects; as off the contrary part diverse off the Kings amongst the Jews / whose entry hath not been so honest / nor government so easy. upon which consyderations it may appear / that there was another reason off making mention of the Gentiles Math. 6. then in this place. Last off all / there is nothing answered to the example off our Savior Christ / which doth manifestly ouethrow the D. interpretatiō. For whē as it is certain / that examples are brought to explain the rules which go before / and in the example our Savior Christ opposeth ministering unto others / to this to be ministered unto by others: it must needs follow / that the place which went before / must be understanded simply of dominion / and not tyrannical dominion. for if the example had been sitting unto M. D. meaning: he should have said / as I came not tirannically to be ministered unto / or ambitiously to desire it / but modestly to rule.

The distinction also of the Magistrate / and off the minister / wherein the weight of this cause lieth / is not touched. This division off dominion, is altogether idle. for it is plain that when I say the civil Magistrate is severed by bearing dominion / from the ecclesiastical person: I meant lawful. and when as I deny / that the ecclesiastical person can exercise any dominion at all: what place is there left to this division? for what dominion soever he had proved / to have been lawful for an ecclesiastical person / had been sufficient overthrow of that I set down. And as the division is superfluous: so yt is unskillful. For the two first partes / the rule with oppression, and the rule described 1. Sam. 8. be all one: and the last member comprehendeth all that go before. And so it is not only no good division / but no division a • all. Nether is he any happier in applying off it. for where my second proposition was / that the ecclesiastical person is severed from the civil by bearing dominion: he saith / that is true in the two first significations. Whereby must follow / that ether yt is lawful for the civil magistrate to rule with oppression / or else for the Bishop. For if it be lawful for nether of them: thē one is not severed from the other / in those kinds off dominion. The last section off the 62. page / &c. pertaining altogether unto the question off Bishops bearing civil offices. I will put over unto the proper place. Here the question is only / what belongeth to the minister in respect off his ecclesiastical ministry.

The authority off man in God's cause / weigheth no further then weight is given by reason. Therefore yow should not prejudice the exposition of this place / by Bucer's Judgment: especially / considering it hath counterpois / of other as learned. Howbeit although Bucer followed another interpretaciō thē we: yet yt shall appear he ment nothing less / thē thereby to approve any of this stately Lordlines used of our bishops / and that he is in this cause ours. As for his interpretaciō / for my part although I confess that Princes in providing for the people's under them / do after a sort serve them: yet I deny that our S. Christ meant to note here / Princes duties in their government. And first the circumstance of the place doth confute yt. For when as the disciples gaping after worldly rule / depended of the opiniō conceived / that our S. Christ should be a great king upon earth: it is apparent that his answer / that he came to be a minister and to serve, was to overthrow that phantasye of theirs. as if he should say / yow look to be Lord's under me / and I myself came not to be a lord / or Prince: wherefor your desire of rule under me / is in vain. And if this be the natural sense of those words: then yt is manifest / that this word of ministering / being opposed unto the state of a Prince / this sentence can by no means agree unto civil magistrates.

Further / when he calleth his disciples to the imitacion of his service / and ministry (himself being a minister of the gospelly: it is clear / that he speaketh of such a ministry / as cannot agree unto the civil magistrate. This may yet better appear / by the adiointes / or cleauinges knit unto the ministry: which being such as cannot agree to the civil Magistrate / it followeth that thes words cannot be understanded off both gouernementes. For our S. Christ in his mynistry / did not only serve unto others / but was as a servant: and did not only minister / but was as a minister / that is to say carried the face / and countenance of a servant / in apparel / in diet / in obedience unto the civil Magistrate. Wherunto the Apostle hath regard / when he saith / that our Savior took the shape / and form off a servant. But Princes although they serve the profit off their people's: yet they nether carry / nether is it meet they should carry / the form / and shape off servants / ether in apparel / or diet / or any part off civil behavior▪ but contrariwise it standeth with the ordinance off God / that they should have some outward mark off excellency / above the rest.

Moreover in that our Savior Christ / declareth that the cheiftye of the disciples shall never be so great in the church / but that the highest shall be servant unto the rest: it must needs be that he meaneth another kind off service / then can agree unto the civil Magistrate. For although he be called a minister, and public officer of God for the profit of the people / and it be said that David did minister unto the age wherein he lived: yet that the holy ghost doth ever call them servants off their people / as he saith here his disciples shall be / it cannot be shown. for this word servant / which our Savior Christ attributeth unto his disciples / and S. Paul used in saying that he was the Corinthians servant, signifieth a lower / and more humble kind off service then the other: and is never attributed (as I think) unto the civil Magistrate in respect off his subjects / but only in respect off his subjection unto the Lord. Wherupon followeth / that forsomuch as our Savior Christ speaketh here / of a more humble service then can fall into the Majesty of the civil Magistrate towards his people. this place cannot be understanded off the civil government.

That in the end hath also force / that whereas the Evangelists speaking off principality / and greatness which the Magistrate hath over his subjects / use with full consent the word Prince: when they come to describe the superiority / and greatness which our Saui. Christ will have in his ministers / they also with full consent abstain from it / being proper (as I have shown) to the Magistrate: and set in place thereof a leader, a word off less authority / and by thapostle ascribed unto ministers. Where if he had meant in that later part / to have described the duty off the civil magistrate: he would by all likelihood have kept the same word / saying / whosoever amongst yow shall be Prince / shall be as your servant. Therefore yt is evident / that our Savior meant this sentence off the ministry off the word / and not of Magistrates.

I know well yow say this place is fitly alleged against the Pope, and that in words yow thrust him far away / whom in deed yow cause to approach. But forasmuch as your words serving against the Pope / your reasons are for him: and that his person being changed / his cause is still defended: it behooved me to look / not so much at your defiance in words / as at that maintenance which the course off your disputation bringeth unto him. And let it be now considered / whether your tongue being with the Bishop / your hand be not with Harding. He to prove that the Pope may exercise both civil / and ecclesiastical jurisdiction / bringeth forth the example of Moses both priest, and Prince. The Bishop to confute that / alledgeth this text off S. Matthew. which if it put not a difference between the office of a Prince / and off a minister (as yow say it doth not): then hath the Bishop answered nothing. For the question is not there / whether the Pope may tyrant̄ously / or ambitiously ether seek after / or exercise civil iurisdictiō: but whether he may exercise any at all. Nether is the question / whether the Pope may exercise that authority as a thing belonging unto himself / or of the grant off Princes. For then his rule should be avouched good in sometimes / when the Emperors have willingly submitted them selves / with their scepters unto the pleasure off Popes. As for his reigning in men's consciences, it peteineth not to this place. So that if the D. answer be good: then this place which the Bishop alledgeth / maketh nothing against the Popes civil sword / provided that he seek it not, and that he have it of the kings grant. Which how contrary it is to the Bishops meaning / may easily appear by that which followeth.

If therefore he agree with the bishop (as he saith): he must allow off thes words off Cyprian / Christ by several duties, and distinct honors, hath here set a difference between both the powers. And then doth Bucer's authority fail him: who thinketh that those offices are not distinguished in those words (it shall not be so with yow). and then also is he goen from his strongest hold / that our Savior Christ, did only discern between the affections: when as it is said / that he discerned between the offices. Moreover then must he allow off Bernardes saying: yt ys plain that temporal dominion is forbidden the Apostles, now therefore thow being Pope how darest thow usurp ether the Apostleship being a prince, or the Princehood, being successor off the Apostle? doubtless from the one off them thow art forbidden, &c. And if he allow off this: then falleth he from his conning distinction / off having it ambitiously, and by election. For considering that Bernard saith / he is forbidden it / and speaketh not there against the abuse / but against the use off dominion in a bishop: it followeth that dominion nether falleth into a bishop / in that he is a bishop: nor can be received off him / being offered off the civil Magistrate. The reader therefore may see / that the exposition yow follow off this place / doth quite overthrow the bishops answer / and openeth the Papists mouth which he had stopped.

If this cause should be tried by authority / yow could gain nothing. Not only Calvin / Jewel with the ancient fathers which he alledgeth / but Bulling. Zwingli. Gwalther with a a number of others / do expound it as I have doon: and prove by those places off the Evangelists in plain words / that there is no superiority off one minister over another / and that with fuller words then Calvin useth. And even the very same word Maioritie, which yow say in the margent off the text / is proved by these places: Bullinger affirmeth to be ouertrowen by the same. As for yow / albeit yow pretend Musculus, &c. yet in very deed these answers which yow make / are taken properly owt of Pighius: which hath all those corners / reasons / and shifts / almost word for word / as yow have cowched them here in this treatise.

I report me whether I have spoken to the meaning or no: yow have mustered them by first, second, third, I will also answer them severally. And to the first I answer / that although our Saui. Christ said not, no man owght to be great amongst yow: yet he said as much. for when he saith / the greatest shall be as the least, he that is first, as servant to all: he fetching down the greatest to the least / and making the cheiftie amongst them a service unto them all: taketh away all dominion off one over another. This reason I having answered before / was vnneedfull to be here repeated. so remaineth for him to prove / that if our Savior Christ had meant to take away all dominion off the Apostles, one over another: then he would have said, no man owght to be great amongst yow, and that there was no other way to give owt this sense but this. The second concludeth / that our Savior had no meaning to take away superiors amongst Christians, nothing to this question. For no man denieth / but there owght to be superiors. As for that he interlaceth off Peter • cheifty: it is answered afterward.

The similitudes he useth / cannot win his superiority off one minister over another. For as for heavenly bodies, although one off them be more excellent then another: yet they exercise no dominion one over another. Therefore if it prove anything: it proveth that excellency off gifts amongst ecclesiastical persons / doth not lift them up in authority / and commandment one over another: but only maketh a difference in order / and comeliness. Which we have shown in the beginning to be in ecclesiastical ministry: where we willingly receive order / opposed to confusion: refusing dominion opposed unto subjection. For the heavenly spirits. what will yow allege to prove / that they have dominion one over another? The place of the Ephesians / thrones, domynions, principalities, pours? if yow do: it is boldier then Augustine durst do. But if they be superior one to another: that superiority is answered in the church by superiority off ministers over the people. If they be severed in orders one from another: that is not denied to be in officers off the church. If they exercise dominion one over another: that is expressed in common wealths. So that if the Answ. were able to prove all these / which will be hard for him without Denyses dreams: yet he may see they conclude not a dominion / off one minister over another. The third reason likewise / concludeth not against this cause: and to thes two reasons I answered at large. Which if the Ans. would have taken away: he owght to have shown / that there can be no superiority of one over another in the church / unless one minister be superior to another. but that he passeth slily by / and picketh a quarrel unto the examples.

To his exception against the first example / that there is inequality amongst servants: I answer there is none / but by the masters express appointment. And therefore if he will have advantage thereof: he must prove that it is the Lord's ordinance / that one minister should rule over another. beside that / it is enough to maintain mine answer / off equality off servants in a family / that it is so for the most part: and whē my meaning was of servants left in one / and the same order / yt is owt off time to allege this example. Secondly the inequality there made / is not of one steward over another / but over the family which he ministereth unto: and therefore this similitude maketh to show / that one minister is not ruler over another / but every minister ruler off his flock. Thirdly that similitude off government off the steward, Math. 24. being propounded as a picture to set forth the rule off ministers over their flocks: declareth not only how there owght no government to be erected in the church / but by commaundment off God: but also how far it owght to be from that absolute dominion / or lordly pomp / which the Answ. would bring in. which Musc. a great man with the D. declareth / when he saith: He speaketh after the common faschion: for this was the office of the principal servant, to give every man his diet: he was not appointed to be lord off others.

As for his exception against my other example / of equality off brethren: the inequality which the scripture maketh between the elder brother, and the rest, is nothing les then any rule / or authority to command them: but only a reverence which the younger owght to bear to the elder / which we willingly grant amongst the ministry / that the younger men give place to the gray hears off the elder. Thother preeminence off having two partes off the goods, whereof the younger brethren had but one / is no matter off inequality in authority / whereof only we speak: wherein also we will not deny / but one minister according to his charge off children / may have greater portion then other. And both these exceptions are not taken against my allegation so much / as against the godly writers off our time. Which to prove the equality of authority off the bishop off Rome / with other bishops: have alleged that they called one another brethren, that they were fellow servants.

Dominion here forbidden (saith the Ans.) is not of one minister over another, but over the people: wherein he is greatly deceived. For our Sau. Christ speaking to his 12. disciples according to S. Math. saith whosoever shall be great amongst yow, shall be your minister, and whosoever amongst yow shall be first, shall be your servant: restreining their service off ech off them / unto the residue off their fellows. Again the circumstance in S. Math. and Marck / that the other ten disdained at the two brethren, and which S. Luke expresseth / that the contention was amongst the 12. which off them might seem to be greatest: do manifestly overthrow that saying. For if they had not desired to be above the residue off their fellows: there had been no cause off disdaigne. And the strife was not / what government they should use over the people: but which amongst them selves should be greatest. Wherupon unless we will say / that our Saui. Christ laid his plaster beside the sore / and spake from the purpose off that the cause required: yt must be confessed / that this dominion forbidden / is in respect off one minister over another.

Whereby him that sitteth at the table, he would have the people understanded: he is grossly ouerseen. for so by the testimony off our S. Christ / the people should be greater then he himself: seeing he affirmeth / that he which sitteth is greater then he which waiteth. For noting the dignity off a minister / by that usually annexed unto masters / to sit at the table while their servants wait: he teacheth that forsomuch as he their master / to whom it apperteined to sit / and be waited upon / was unto them rather as a servant waiting / then a master sitting at the table: much more they being fellows / should serve one another. Where yow charge me for not truly translating the Greek word: I appele to the masters off that tongue / whether I have followed the natural etimol • gie. Where yow ad that it signifieth the chief ruler, or guide in every business: I acknowledge yow for no Lexicon / and being in controversy / it owght to have been proved. Stephen doth affirm that they which translate it a prince, have no ground that he can tell off. What cheifty S. Peter had amongst theresidue off the Apostles / shall be considered in a more fit place: it shall be sufficient here to have noted / that the Ans. exposition off the word / first is the same with Hardinges: and my exposition which he here confuteth / alone with the bishops which he confirmeth by good arguments / where he denieth that S. Peter was Prince of the Apostles / or Lord over them / or had power / or dominion over them. Then it overthroweth Musculus. For where he saith that Peter was found in many places to have been chief amongst the rest: the D. by this exposition / maketh him chief simply in all places. Thus it may appear / that your cause findeth small harting at Musc. hand.

Yow say my exposition is contrary to the truth, and judgment off the learned: but yow show only that it agreeth not with certain interpreters judgment / that the truth is otherwise / yow show not. If yow had shown the first / that it is contrary to the truth: the second had been needles. I propounded that doubtfully / and although that significatiō of the preposition hath good warrant owt of the use off that tongue: yet I will not stand at the arms and / with so learned interpreters for it. Howbeit when I give place / yet S. Luke may not give back: who using the simple verbs without the preposition / maketh manifest that there is no peruersenes / or deformity off government noted. for if he should mean to set forth a peruersenes / or deformity off government / and having so many words to do it with / yet did not: I cannot see how he should have been void off some fault. Where yow say he must be expounded by the other Evangelists: that can by no means be admitted. For it cometh often to pass in the greek tongue / that compound verbs are put for simples: but that simples have a compound signification / the use off that tongue will not suffer. For the use off the word in the Acts, and S. Peter: beside that it is not strange for one word in scripture / to be taken diversely: that place maketh nothing to prove this signification. For what word soever S. Luke had used in the Acts: yet forsomuch as that action came from those unclean spirits / it must needs be disordered. Therefore the peruersenes off it / doth not appear in the word / but in the subject from whence it came.

And if a man would make that word to signify a deformity / because that rule was beyond measure: by the same reason the words Prince / Rule / Power / names off lawful authority / should be condemned: For that a scribed unto Devils / they are always tyrannical. And Beza also here alleged / in that place saith / the word noteth not any dominiō there, but only that they gat the upper hand of those exorcistes: which when it may be taken as well in good part / as in the evil: the Answ. can by no means help him self therewith. For that off Saint Peter / where he saith it is manifest that it signifieth violent dominion: I grant that that rule which it signifieth / is violent in a Pastor / but that which is violent in him over his flock / is moderate / and lawful in a Prince over his subjects. and so S. Peter kept the same distinction off government off the civil Magistrate / and the Minister / which he had learned off our Savior Christ. For if he meant by that word / a dominion simply tirannicall: he would have opposed yt unto a moderate dominion / not as he did unto being an example off the flock. As if he should say / yow must not bear dominion over your flocks as Princes / which with diverse notes of their magnificence get authority over their subjects: but yow not having thes means / to get reverence and authority amongst your flocks / must so much the more enforce your selves / to all commendable example off life.

Wherunto agreeth that which Saint Paul writeth unto Timothy: whom he exhorteth to keep up his authority in the church / and deliver himself from contempt which his yowth was subject unto / by being a patron off good works unto his church. And Beza in that place / saying by those words care, and no kingdom ys committed unto Mynisters, and that by that place yt appeareth, that Pastors may not bear rule over their flocks, after the manner off kings: doth sufficiently declare / that the word doth not signify simply a tirannicall dominion / but one such as agreing unto kings / is notwithstanding vnsitting for Pastors. For he saith kingdom / and Kings: not Tyrannie / nor Tyrantes / which he owght to have said / if he would have confirmed your interpretation. Beside that Stephen putteth both the simple / and compound to signify one thing: that is / a simple dominion without any such tail off tyranny / as is here imagined.

Yow may deny if yow will that the snow is white. By (all thes places) must needs be understanded those which Musc. off whom yow speak / doth interpret: but your self had said before / that he expoundeth those three off S. Math. Marck / and Luke: therefore although yow added not three, yet that must needs be understanded. And in this your shift yow break your grammers head: seeing Aristotle teacheth that the number of three, is the least number that this word all can be verified off. Where yow said Christ did not say no man shall be great amongst thē: my answer was that he had said that before, and needed not to repeat it, whereunto yow answer nothing. The place I alleged owt of S. Luke / overthroweth your answer. For if by thes words whosoever will be great, desire off dominion had been only found fault with: then he would not have spokē simply / whosoever amongst yow, without adding anything off ambitiō / or desire to rule: and to this yow answer nothing / but cover your self only with Musc. authority. For where yow say / yow spake as the words be▪ yow understand well that they do not specify any ambitiō / which yow must needs mean / or else yow maintain not your answer. Where yow say, S. Luke's words make against me, as which insinuate that there must be some great amongst them: yow take it otherwise then it is. For if yow will not admit the interpretation I alleged / in referring this greatness unto excellency of gifts one above another: nor Cal. interpretation sauoreth not in your taste, that it is as much as if our Savior should say, your greatness, excellency, and dignity shall be, in submitting your selves unto yow brethren: yet yow will not refuse Bucer / whom yow here build upon. which by great in this place / understandeth him that is elder in age: and proveth it by the word younger, opposed to him. And it is not unlike but one of those reasons / whereby some off those disciples would have grounded their principality over other their fellows / was for that they were auncienter in years. Which soever of thes expositions yow admit: yow see that to be great here / signifieth nothing les / then any dominion off one minister over another.

First the Ans. saith / that I go about to prove that our Savior Christ doth not reprove thambition off his disciples: which is a manifest untruth. For I say that he doth reprove it / and give also larger place to the reproof off their ambition / then he. for where he would have it to consist only in that they ambitiously desired to rule over their fellows: I affirm that he did not only take them up for that / but also that they desired to rule one over another / which was not lawful. Secondly he saith / I have falsified his words, in that I father off him that our Savior reprehended only thambition of his disciples. which I do not / for my words ascribe unto him that he said / they were reproved not only for desire off rule / but for rule to oppress. Then to maintain this quarrel / he affirmeth he said / our Savior reproveth the tirannicall rule off kings off the Gentills: as though that made anything to prove / that he did in his disciples only reprove ambition. For reproof of oppression in kings: was not part off reprehension off the disciples.

Moreover he could not be ignorant by the course off disputation / that when I said / if ambition only were reprehended in the disciples: I meant that, if our S. Christ had forbidden his disciples ambitious desire off rule one over another, and not rule itself: which doth manifestly touch the cause. Thus partly with a manifest untruth / partly with a trifling cavil / which (if it were true) maketh nether whoat / nor kold: it seemeth he would have cast a mist before his readers eyes / that he should not see him give the slip from my first argument in this diuis. For unto this reason / that in that sense off the place which he setteth down, the answer off our Savior Christ should not have benefit: considering the Disciples might have replied, that he forbad tyrannical rule of their inferiors, but they desired moderate, and well ruled government: he answereth not a word. To his answer unto the second reason / that they are called bountiful, which have no sparck of bountifulness: I reply that although that may sometimes come to pass / yet it should have been owt of time / to have made mention of it here in that sense. For if as yow say / our Savior speak here against the tyranny, and ambition of Princes: then it was owt off place to make mention off the flattery off their subjects / which call them by the title off bountiful. For that is rather the fault off the subjects / then off the Princes. If yow say that they desire that title: first the words off S. Luke do not bear it owt: for he saith they are called gracious Lord's / and not they desire to be so called. Then it being a thing not simply unlawful / for a Prince to desire to be called / and counted bountiful / to this end that by that fame men might be more serviceable: although it should be granted to yow / that S. Luke meant that they desire that title: yet forasmuch as there is no stain off ambition / or tyranny in that desire / yow are still behind with your answer.

For your example off the Pope called most holiest, &c. yt is nothing like. For men deceived by error / call him so: and although they say untruly / yet they speak as they think / which cannot be in this case, considering that no man can be abused by a false opinion off his bountifulness / which not only giveth not / but is an oppressor. And although as there are found which knowing the wickedness off the Pope / call him notwithstanding most holy: so there be which knowing the illiberalitie off their Princes / call them notwithstanding bountiful: yet yow should have considered / that S. Luke speaketh not here / how Princes are called off certain particular persons: but by what titles they are called generally / of all their subjects. So that if yow would have spokê to purpose / yow should have shown / that it is a common thing for tyrants / to be called generally of their subjects whom they pill / bountiful: and that which is harder for yow to do / that men will call ministers bountiful / which give nothing. Otherwise the interpretation which yow imagine / hath no place.

To my third reason / that it is not to be thought off all the Apostles, that they desired rule one over another, to the end they might use cruelty, and oppression over their fellows: he answereth not a word. It may be as I have shown / gathered off the scripture / which is not expressed in it: else how take yow upon yow to set down / that the 10. were as ambitious in disdaining, as the 2. were in desiring, seeing that is not expressed? If I be deceived, in thinking that those greek words be all one: I am deceived with the Grecians / for so I have red. And if your authority were any in this case / yet it is suspected: and therefore needed better proof / then your bare word. and albeit it were true / that the one hath sometime a more larger use, then the other: yet hereit appeareth / that the indignation off these Apostles was such / as Aristotle defineth the other word by: that is / conceived off an opinion they had, that those two were not worthy to rule over them.

The words off our Savior Christ in the 20. of S. Math. &c. are spoken unto the 12. only / whom he had set apart for the ministry off the gospel: but his words S. Math. 23. are spoken not only unto them / but unto the common people. Whereupon it followeth / that our Savior joining the people with his disciples / in the dehortations which he maketh here: could not as in the other place / where he speaketh unto them alone / speak off the proper listes / and bounds of the ministry: and therefore there is no cause why M. should be glad, that I agree with him in the exposition off Math. 23. Further / Math. 20. making comparison between the 12. disciples / and Princes: here so far as toucheth the disciples / he maketh comparison between them / and other ecclesiastical ministers. There being therefore things in the state off a commendable Prince / which agree not unto the ministry of the gospel: it followeth that he may be well thought / there not only to have forbidden the disciples ambition / damnable in both estates: but also those things / which being commendable in Princes / agree not unto them. Off the other side / all things commendable in the Pharisees ministry Ecclesiastical / agreing likewise to theirs: it followeth of necessity / that there he must needs speak against ambition only. Unto the next diuis. being reproaches / I answer not: only where he chargeth me with falsehood, because I affirm he saith / the book off common prayer is a perfect rule to govern the church off England by / where nothing is wanting / or to much: I answer that there be not the same words / but when there is nothing he will acknowledge to be off the order of the book / which he maintaineth not / and refuseth to have added things which have their ground off the word: I leave to the reader to judge / whether although my words are with the fullest / yet I am far from his meaning.

Now I return again to his 8 Tract. The Ans. scoffing upon my unskillfulness in logic / saith he can find nether head, nor foot in my reason. Thus I will find both. They which deny the lawfulness of John's ministry / because there was no such ministry contained in the scriptures / thought no ministry lawful / not contained in them: but the Scribes / and Levites did so: therefore they esteemed no ministry lawful / not contained in scripture. Against this he taketh exception / first to the translation / which is altogether friuolus. for beside that both the words may bear that signikication / and it is not unlike but by the article / the Evangelist meant not someone singular Prophet / spoken of in the law beside the Messias / but rather any Prophet extraordinary / to whom the Lord shown himself / ether by vision / or dream: the interpretation which he citeth owt of Beza / altereth not the argument / but rather strenghtheneth it / noting thereby that it was necessary not only to have the function off a Prophet: but off one which was especially noted / and marked owt by the scripture. Secondly where he saith / that if they had asked John whether he had been a Prophet, he would not have denied it, and addeth for proof thereof / our Savior Christ said he was one: he is abused. for our Savior saying that he was greater then a prophet, and that the Prophets endured until John's coming, denieth that he was a Prophet / and maketh his ministry a mean function between the function of a Prophet / and ministry off the gospel: more excellent then the first / and inferior to the other. If he would have had a color off his defense / he should rather have cited his fathers saying of him / which calleth him the Prophet of the highest: but that could not have served the turn nether / For that the word is there taken generally / for those which teach the will off God: which is often as hath been shown.

Yowr third exception / that all the functions are not reckoned up, because they ask him not whether he was a Priest, or Levite: is as vain as the rest for therefore they ask him not / because he taught not being consecrated unto any of them / according to the ecclesiastical order provided in that behalf: and that was one occasion off this embassadge unto John. Last off all / where in the margent he saith / that the Pharisees made false arguments, and that I do the same: he speaketh unadvisedly. for howsoever there was otherwise great ignorance in them: yet that their reason was good herein / it appeareth by that S. John to prove his ministry lawful / brought testimony thereof owt off the scripture: and for that our Savior Christ / meaning to confirm the ministry off John / asketh whether it were from heaven / or off men. In which words condemning all ministries which men institute / and that come not from heaven: he confirmeth the Parises argument / which was that John exercising a ministry not ordained by the law / should have been gilty of breach of the law / if he could not have shown some extraordinary vocatiō. Thus appeareth that there was both bead, and foot in this argument: and that by all likelihood true / which he could not impugn but by untruth. The 8. and 9. diuis. which follow / have (as commonly the rest) nothing but bare sayings: which because I shall meet withal again / I will here pass over▪ only in the eight yt ys to be noted / that he saith it is servile to tie the church off Christ to the patron off the Jews Synagogue. Wherein ether he saith nothing / or he would have understanded more / then he dare veter. For if he mean that the church of Christ may not be in all ordinances / and ceremonies conformable to that off the Jews: it maketh nothing to the purpose. but if he mean that the church hath now more liberty in adding ministries / then the Jews had / as his answer to that I set down doth require: then I see no cause why he should not have so said. But that although he would say / yet he durst not: and therefore spa •• thus vncertenly / that whē I should show the contrary: he in this general speech / might have some corner to hide him in.

Seeing I must needs prove that the crow is black / that is to say / tharchbishoprick a new ministry / thus yt is proved. That which hath diverse efficient causes / is another / and diverse: but there are diverse efficient causes off the ministry off the archbishop / and those expressed in the word off God. That there are diverse efficient causes / is manifest: for that the office off Bishop / Elder / and Deacon being by God himself / the office off the archbishop / was devised / and brought in by man. And although this be proof enough / to them that have their senses exercised in the holy scripture / where in the ministry oftentimes they are called strangers / which have not their offices limited by the prescript off God's word: yet that it may appear how little modesty there is in this strong denial / I will ad others. Whereas a Bishop may be ordained by two / or three other Bishops: the archbishop must be ordained by all the Bishops off the province / ether present / or at the least consenting. Now seeing the ordination is off the form off their ministry / and thes formal causes be diverse: yt followeth that thes offices must needs be diverse. And that the substantial / and essential form of a Bishop / is differente from that off the archbishop / yt is plain also by that they are members off one division / and therefore off necessity differ in the substantial form: as a man differeth from a brute beast / not in circumstance / but in that he is off another nature. And when the D. granteth the effects / and works off the archbishop / to be diverse from those off the Bishop / the one ruling / the other obeing / and that by oth given and taken: it seemeth very strange / that he should deny that it is a new / and diverse office from those appointed in the scripture.

Furthermore / when as the subjects off the Bishop / and Archbishop be diverse / where about they be occupied / the one having one church / or to speak according to his sense / one Diocese / the other a whole province: still it must fall owt / that they are diverse offices. Last off all / forasmuch as offices in the scripture / are perpetual / and the office off an Archbishop may be taken away by men (by his own confession): yt must follow / that they be diverse offices. And if he look when I should conclude a new minis ••• e: beside that yt is all new which is strange / and strange which is not commanded by the word of God: yt coming as shall appear some hundredth years after the Apostles times / whose only authority is able to make the grey hears / and antiquity of a thing be reverenced: it followeth that this word new / if. he nourish any mystery in it / is also truly verified of the ministry of the archbishop.

Timothy, and Tite, shall never be proved to have had any such authority over the rest / and if they had / yet yt falleth not on the archbishops side: seeing they were no Bishops / but Evangelists / as hath appeared. When the church appointed one Bishop to rule over all Ministers, Elders, and Deacons in the same church: yt did appoint a new ministry. and all thes reasons almost / before brought against the newness off the archbishops functions / return upon the head of that institution. And if there be any hold in the Ans. word / he hath otherwhere affirmed / that the office off a Bishop is superior unto the office off a Pastor. if so / it is not the same. But why dare not the D. as well confess / that the church may erect a new ministry? seeing he affirmeth flatly as much in effect, for to prove an Archbishop / he alledgeth / that beside those in the scripture / the church may appoint both names / and offices. now I would gladly know / first whether when the church appointeth an office / that was never before a new office / or no? and then whether a new office be a new mynysterye? And if to erect up an office which was never / be to erect a new office / and a new office be a new mynysterie: it must follow that the church in erecting another office / then is set forth in scripture / erecteth a new ministry. The Ans. is afraid to confess a new ministry / and not afraid to confess a new office: off which superstition I would gladly understand some reason. Now where he would have the care off our Savior over his church in time off the gospel, to consist in that he hath set down the doctrine more plainly in all points, then under the law: this being a doctrine off salvation under the law / that there should be ministers in the church: yt followeth by his own saying / that he hath set yt down more plainly in all pointes now / then under the law. Therefore also this point / how many orders / and degrees off ministry owght to be / considering that that was precisely defined in the law / is more narrowly bounded in the gospel. Thus he defending more in deed / then in words he dare set down: is almost at continual battle with himself / and hath scarce at any time his proofs / and propositions of one measure.

But that I follow not the chase off words / leaving his meaning / where 〈◊〉 any light footing of it to be found: that which he would say / and wherewith his purpose is upholden / cannot stand: that albeit our Savior hath taught the doctrine more plainly now, then under the law: yet it followeth not that he hath performed that in the government off the church. If this be his meaning as I said / there is great injury doon unto the church / great dishonor unto our Savior Christ. For he having at all times doon the office / not only off a Doctor in teaching / but also off a king in prescribing the manner / and form off government unto yt: howmuch soever he is said to have doon less / in appointing the outward government off his church now / then under the law: so much is both he robbed off that part off his kingly office / which God his heavenly Father anointed him unto / and the church spoiled of the fruit which should come unto her thereby. Yt ys therefore a most certain doctrine / that in all things pertaining to the kingdom of heaven / whether in matter off doctrine / or government / the Lord hath in as great specialty marcked them owt / as ether before / or under the law. In civil matters / and things pertaining to this present life / he hath I grant used a greater particularytie with them / then amongst us / framing laws according to the quality of that people / and coontrey: wherein the leaving of us at greater liberty / ys so far from proving the like liberty in things pertaining to the kingdom off heaven / that they rather prove a straiter bond. For even as when the Lord would have his favor more appear by temporal blessings off this life towards the people under the law / then towards us / he gave also polityke laws most exactly / whereby they might both most easily come into / and most steadfastly remain in possessyon off those earthly benfites: even so at this time / wherein he would not have his favor so much esteemed by those outward commodities / is required that as his care in prescribing laws for that purpose / hath somewhat fallen in leaving them to men's cōsultations / which may be deceived: so his care for conduit / and government of the life to come / should (if it were possible) rise / in leaving less to the order off men / then in times past.

And the D. should ether have cut off quite / that part off the Kingly office off Christ / which consisteth in outward government off his church: or else have let yt had the full course. Now when he granteth that beside the doctrine off salvation / he entered into the description off outward government off the church (saying beside the doctrine he ordained there should be not only fit ministers to publish it, but officers to govern the people in godliness) as if in beginning off that description he declared his care over his church / and not •• making an end off it: he signifieth that he declared less care. For if to describe the three offices of government / Bishop / Deacon / and Elder / were an argument off his love / and care towards his church: had not also the adding to off the fourth (if any were) been a token off the same? But if as the Ans. would make us believe / the Lord declared his great care, and love more towards his church, in leaving that office at her arbitrement: then yt should also follow / that in appointing no more but the Deacon / and Elder which governeth only / yea in appointing no officer at all / he should have shown himself more careful / and loving. Which if yt be absurd: that he saith whereof this followeth / is not to be admitted.

Again whereas he granteth that our Savior Christ hath gone through with the doctrine: I would ask off him why in that point he hath made so clean work? Whatsoever he answer here / and what causes soever he assign: he cannot deny but one cause is / the blindness of men to see / and their perverseness of judgment in things pertaining to the kingdom off heaven. Which if it be true: then I would gladly know off him / how they come to be so egleeyed / in the matter off discipline / and government / which are such bussardes in the sight off the doctrine? and how their eyes be opened here / which were shut there? As if we were in less peril off error / in inventing the Discipline off the church: then we should have been in devising the doctrine. or as though it were an easier matter / to find a rule whereby the whole church jointly, then whereby everyone in his several / might be directed.

And if part of this government / and order being propounded / part also is left owt: why rather were not the greater offices / and off more weight expressed / leaving the smaller to the stamp off man's head? for who knoweth not but it is harder / to institute a ministry for the government off a whole province / then for a company cōprised within the territoire of a furlong? to institute a ministry for government / and commandment of both people / and Bishops too / then for the people only? So that off the two virtues required in all sufficient dispensation / faithfulness / and wisdom / and which were both most fully in our S. Christ: by the Ans. account / there was nether. For in that he is made to have described some part off the government / and not all: he is argued of unfaithfulness. in that he is made to have propounded the les / and easier / leaving owt greater / and more difficult: his wisdom is reproached.

Nether may the D. think here to escape / with the distinction off external things variable by circumstances / which else where he alledgeth. For first I have shown that yt is most untrue / that all external things be variable. Thē he must remember / that he making his Archbishops office to begin in the Apostles times / hath drawn owt his continuance unto this time: all which he hath (as he yet doth) accounted off him as a head pillar of the church off God. Now if he be such a profitable officer / both in the purest time off the church / and the corrupt, both in persecution / and peace / under a Christian Magistrate / and under a Tyrāt: yt is clear that this ys an office not variable by circumstance off times / but which our Savior Christ / and his Apostles might have as well established in perpetuity / as he did any off those unchangeable ministries / Bishops / Deacons / &c.

In calling yt a servile tie, to have the whole government at the prescript off God's word: he forgetteth that the greatest liberty / and freedom off Christians is / to serve the Lord according to his revealed will / and in all things to hang upon his mouth. But that he addeth (yt ys to be tied unto the letter, as in the law) first is Papistical / and Anabaptistical: proceeding from a gross oversight / and want of understanding off the Apostles meaning / whē he speaketh of the letter of the law. For whereas the Apostle setteth against the letter of the law / that is to say / the bare commandment do this, &c. the worcking off the spirit given by promise / whereby the law in part is obtained off us / and made healthful which otherwise bringeth death: the Answ. with the Papists / and Anabaptists / opposeth the letter unto that not writ̄ / nor commanded in scripture. When in that sense which he taketh letter (if there were any such) we are as straitly / and precisely bound unto the letter / as ever were the Jews.

The examples brought as exceptions / against the certain / and commanded ministry / are such for the most part / as might seem to have been brought / to set the D. cause in the mockery and lawghter of all men. For yt is well known / that the name off a Scribe: was no name off any certain order, and particular kind off ministry: but a general name given unto the skillful in the law of God. For although we read of some to whom yt ys given / which beside the ordinary function wrote something: yet yt may be easily shown / that they had that name not off writing / but rather because they were expert in the law off God written. Which as yt may be proved by diverse authorities off the scripture: so yt doth by the authority off our Savior Christ manifestly appear. And when our Savior speaking off the times of the gospel / saith he will send Scribes, and yet never heard tell off that there was any certain order / or particular function off Scribes under the gospel: yt ys clear that under title off Scribe / there was never understanded any several degree off ministry. The same is to be aswered unto the name of Doctor of law: that yt was a general name where with they were named / which were learned / or taken for learned in the law of God. Which may appear for that whom S. Math. calleth a a lawyer / or Doctor of the law / S. Marck calleth a Scribe.

To change the Capitain off the Temple into an Ecclesiastical officer, needeth a very strong exorcism. The Temple of Jerusalem being the strongest place in the whole city / and by reason off the height commanding the whole city round about / was by all likelihood taken of the Romans to be their fort / or Cytadell. Considering that Herod had also built a fort there / called Antonia: where they placing their garrisons / did the easilier / and with greater security / hold the Jews in that bondage / which they sought at every occasion to shake off. Herunto lead the profane minds of the Romans / which beside the safety they sought that ways / took pleasure also in profaning the temple off the Lord: ad also the practice off our days / which may serve for confirmation hereof. But howsoever the matter be / this appeareth plainly / that that office was not ecclesiastical / but both a civil / and warlike function. For when S. John beside the servants off the Scribes / and high priests / maketh mention off a band off men: yt may appear that as the servants / and ministers belonged unto the high Priests / and Scribes: so the band belonged unto those Capitaines off the temple / and that they were there as those which had the charge off the band.

The same may yet appear further / by that where he laying hold off certain off the Apostles / put them in prison: after they came owt they confirmed them selves against their threats / by that the fame thing was happened unto them / which was propheceyed of by David / and whereof our Savior had experience: in that both Jews / and Gentiles / and both powers civil / and ecclesiastical rose up against him. Whereby it is clear / they had regard to the owtrage which they suffered / both off the Priests / and Scribes Jews: and of the Capitain off the temple a Gentill. As for the chief of the Sinagoge: they are the same which be called Elders / and Ancients off the church in reformed churches / whereof in every Synagogue / and assembly off the Jews / there was some number (as shall in place appear) called chief / not for that they had over the ministers / but because they had the government off the people. Whether the Seniors off the people, were before the restoring off the captivity of Babylon, shall appear in place not to be much material.

Yt is a certain reason which is drawn from the figures / to the things figured / in this sort. for if they were not like unto them they shadow forth: they should be no figures. I apply not particularly the partes of the Arck / to the partes of the church: but compare generally the building off the one / with the other. Which point also. S. Stephen / and the Apostle to the Hebrews do likewise press. Therefore thalledging off Calvin / against thapplication off every part thereof unto the church / is idle. The exceptions are to small purpose. For when I ask what: I deny not but some things might have been left. for if he had would he might have known / that as the Lord advanced his glory towards his church / and approached unto men by knowledge of him self: so he did more precisely / and particularly set forth all things / pertaining to the church / and government thereof: and that therefore under the gospel / wherein he hath opened the threasures of knowledge / yt must follow that he left things more clear / and certain then before. Yet I will touch the vanity off his exceptions.

For pins, and nails: I would ask him how he can make a cofer without them / especially for the water. And therefore if he had prepared bordes / &c. and not set them together / I think he had not obeyed the voice of God. and it is as much as if he should say / that he was not bidden to take a nedle into his hand / which is bidden to sew. Whether the windows were off glass, or Crystal made not to purpose: so that they gave a clear light (which the word Moses useth signified) it was enough. Howsoever yow were misled by certain expositors / the cover mentioned Gen. 8. is cmmaunded in the making off the Ark / where the Lord also prescribeth yt should be a cubit above the Ark: very fit to shut the waters / that they should not fall continually upon the Ark. The overseer, and master off this work, could be no other then Noa: at whose prescript yt was to be doon / and which was to answer if anything had been doon otherwise then the commandment. The Raven, and dove sent forth, were not things belonging to the building off the Ark: and yet as meat / and drink they are commanded him / forsomuch as they pertained to preservation off his life / which the Lord had given him in charge.

That out of Pellicane, and again and again out off Calvin, are such as granted / conclude not against this cause. That the learned writers say, God charged the Jews with ceremonies of his own, that they should have no leisure to use any other: they never use it to prove that there is more liberty to the church now / then in times past / to devise anything: but it is their buckler which they hold owt against the Papists / who by example of that church / would lode this now with such a multitude off ceremonies. Therefore hē doth not in this allegory follow their authority: but rather clean contrary / walketh herein in the Papists steppes. Which where they are pressed / by this so diligent prescript off all things by the word of God in the old people: answer as the D. that that was doon for the rudeness off that people / and because they were but children / and that it were injury to the church off Christ / to shut her up so short as that was. Where he concludeth of them / that there was only expressed what should be doon in the worship off God, and not in external policy: first there be no such words wheruppon he may pull in that (and not in the external policy). And in deed it is not to distinguish / but to pull in pieces. for what whorship off God can there be in the assemblies of Christiā mē / without the ministry of the word / without external policy / without administration of Sacraments / without praying openly / and with outward sound? all which are external. When Calvin calleth yt spiritual worship, his meaning is nothingles / then to oppose spiritual to all external / doon with mouth / and other partee of the body: but he calleth it spiritual / by comparison off the worship of God under the law / which consisted in corporal washinges / cleansinges apparel / &c. and this is that which ether abuseth him: or wherewith he would abuse other.

And although no singular partes off the Tabernacle / or Temple themselves should set forth unto us / the external policy of the churches: yet whē not only they be described / but yt is prescribed how many kind of officers there should be / and what everyone should do: that might suffice to prove / that if he will needs separate the worship off God / from thexternall policy: yet as the Lord set forth the one / so he left nothing vndescribed in the other. Towching the alteration made by Solomon, and David in sorting the Ministers off the Temple, and other things (another of the Papists reasons / to prove that they may ordain things / beside the prescript off the word): yt is answered in the same chap. the Ans. alledgeth / where yt is said / that all that was doon by commandment of God. And in another place is set forth / that those were instituted by commandment of David / which had commandment off God / brought by the hands off Gad the seer / and of Nathan the Prophet. But seeing the Ans. will not accord with me in this point / of appointing things under the law: let him at least bear himself speak in his former book. God in the old law, prescribed unto his people perfect, and absolute laws, not only moral, and judicial, but ceremonial: nether was there the least thing to be doon in the church, omitted in the law. Let him show how this will agree with that here in the tenth / and 13. diuis. I have shown that it is one thing to be contained / another to be expressed in scripture. Therefore if your cause have no better hold then that: it must go to the ground.

I have shown how this answer / of leaving things to the order off the church, varied by circumstance, &c. cannot stand in the Archbishops case / nor ordinary government of the church. The argument is not off lykes, or payres, but of the smaller unto the great. And although it should be true / that yow say / that the Lord loved the church then as well as he doth now: yet the reason is still of the les unto the great. For if he did so particularly describe the offices / not of such excellency / and weight as the offices / and ministries of the gospel: yt must follow / that he hath much more used that dyligence / in particular description of the ministries hereof. If the 4. off John, mean that our Savior should tell all things necessary to salvation: then the Mynisterie with the degrees thereof / being necessary / and without the which the Lord doth not ordinarily give any salvation at all / yt is clear that he hath also declared all degrees thereof. That owt off Saint John 20. is spoken of the miracles our Savior did / not off his doctrine: and is thrust in by strong hands in this place. The chief amongst the rest off the Mynisters / I might well with S. Paul / call the pillars: and therefore if the Lord should have made no mention off the Archbishops / they keeping such a place as they do: yt is truly said / that the pillars should have been forgotten. If the Magistrate were an officer of the church / and not of the common wealth: there are many places in scripture both old / and new / that describe his office / and all that pertaineth to him at large. Wherof if the Ans. can bring but one for his Archbishop: this controversy is at an end. Here be many (we knows) whereof some are not indebate: and those which be / have no causes annexed with them / whereby other might come to knowledge off them / as well as he. Yt is therefore enough to have mentioned mine answer / without staying in confutation of all those things / which he at all adventures throweth owt / to make up an answer.

He saith it is dangerous to say, that the ministries owght not to be retained, without which the church is fully built: because the Magistrate is thereby shut forth, as well as the Archbishop. Our questiō is / what ecclesiastical ministries are sufficient: the mention therefore off the civil Magistrate / is absurd. Also it is too great ether oversight / or peruersenes / not to understand that an universal rule / is not to be racked to everything: but is true off those things / whereof it is given. Beside that / hereby at unawares he confesseth / that the church may be fully built, and accomplished without a Christian Magistrate: which is against that he saith / the magistrate is the head of the church. His exception (that there is no perfection off unity off the church / by reason off good / and bad mingled) first is nothing to this question: secondly yt is a quarrel not against me / but S Paul whose words I used. Thirdly as the ministries off the word are said to save / and bring us to the kingdom off heaven / because they give both entrance / and advancement thereunto / although we come not to full possession off them / so long as we being in this life / need them still: so they are well said / to bring us to perfectiō of unity / because having begun to knit us together here / they follow still with new increases / until we come to perfection in the life to come. As for that there must be offices, as well to preserve, and keep the perfection off unity, as to build yt, and bring it thereunto: beside that for shift off answer / he is driven as yt were with one breath / to affirm that he denied before / off the perfection of unity: he must understand / that the church is always in building / as long at it is here upon earth / and always in knitting. Therefore if those offices be sufficient to build / and knit: they are perfectly sufficient. and if the archbishops office be to keep the church built / and knit yt is manifest we may spare him here / and that his service must then begin / when all other ministries take end. The next diuis hath for answer (according to the D. custom) only that which I preuēting answered afterwad: saving that he addeth as an exceptiō / that there be Apostles which there reckoned / are notwithstanding by us shut owt from the present estate off this church. as if he understood not that in the founding of the church / thes may be necessary / which afterward are not: which also being entreated off in another place / needeth not here to be repeated.

Yt is Calu. which reasoneth of the place of the Ephesiās / that forsomuch as the Apostle saith / that the church is fully built without a Pope: therefore there owght to be no Pope. and how slenderly soever he seemeth to the Ans. to have reasoned: yet shall yt appear by the vanity of his exceptions against it / coming afterward to be discussed / that yt is weighty. But where he saith / albeit the argument be good against the Pope, yet yt ys not so against the archbishop: unless he can exempt him by miracle / or teach us some other Logic then hath hitherto been heard off / the reason includeth him as well as the Pope. For if it be granted that the Popes office is therefore unprofitable to the church / because S. Paul made no mention off it in the ministries requisite for the building thereof there being like wise no mention off the office off an Archbishop / yt must theruppon follow / that the archbishop also is unprofitable. if there be the same cause: there must follow the same effect. The reason added / off the Pope doing things which the archbishop doth not, claiming things which the archbishop claimeth not, &c. hath no place at all. for the question is not off the abuse / and tyranny off the Pope: but whether as it is unprofitable that one should govern all the churches in the world / so yt be also that he should govern all in a whole province. And by the D. answer the office off Pastors should be unlawful / if they challenge unto them selves things unlawful: and the Popes office good / and lawful / if he bearing rule over all churches / would abstain from those / and such like chalenges which the Ans. setteth down. The contrary whereof is true. For as the Pastors office can by no owtrage of him that exerciseth it / be made unlawful: so the usage of dominion off one over all / be yt never so moderate / and qualified can never be lawful. Last of all / the Archbishop himself / if he should challenge those things in his province / which the Pope challengeth over the world / should be by this reason as unlawful an officer as the Pope. Therefore this difference between the Archbishop / and Pope / being accidental / and not touching the nature off the government whereof we have to inquire / is vnstilfully alleged. Yet it is the hole wherūto the Ans. is compelled diverse times to have his recourse. That the ministry is a matter of saluaciō / that the archbishop is a new ministry / that it is absurd here to fly to thexample off the Magistrate / where the questiō is what Ecclesiastical offices are profitable: is before declared.

The Ans. conclusion off my reply / touching the place to the Ephes. is evil shut up. For where he saith that tharchbishoprick may stand, because that place reckoning up only the ministries of the word, that is a ministry off order, and policy: how could he forget / that the archbishop meddleth with the ministry of the word? and therefore it was necessary to be here mentioned / if the Apostle had given him any place in the church. If he will say / that he hath not only the ministry off the word / but off order also: the answer is at hand / that so had both the Apostles by his own confession / and all the rest off those ministries / as appeareth afterward. Whether therefore the archbishop be considered in his ministry of the word / or as together with that he holdeth the reigns off government / or as one of the most principal ministries of the church: ether he hath his place here to the Ephes. or not a • all. For both all ministries off the word (to speak as the D.) separate from government / and order / and all occupied in the word / and government jointly / and all principal ministries of off the church / are here reckoned up. Everyone then off thes three causes being sufficient / to have made mention of the archbishop: all together put a necessity upon the Apostle to speak off him / if he had been worth the speaking off.

Where he thinketh there was no cause to speak off him, for that he differeth not from a bishop in ministry off the word, but in order, and government only, and that therefore yt is no diverse ministry from the bishops office: by the same reason I may say / that S. Paul needed not to have mentioned Pastors / &c. For the Pastors preached the word / as the Apostles. But if this one difference alhough there were no moe / make the ministry of Apostles / and pastors diverse / that thone hath charge off one only church / the other off a • ry • must follow / that the ministry off an archbishop is diverse from the bishops / thone watching over a whole province / the other over a diocese only. Yea it is plain off that spoken before off the Archbishops new ministry / that there are as many / or moe things whereby he differeth from a bishop: then any of thes ministries S. Paul reckoneth up / differ one from another. His answer to the place off the Corinth. consisteth in that he would prove / that the division off offices there, is perfect. Wherein it it easy to see what extremity my reply (which he calleth a vain shift) drave him unto: and how he could not cover his nakedness here / but with discovering another place as unseemly as this. For amongst his answers to the place off the Ephes. whereby he would prove / that that division is not perfect / this was one in the latin pamphlet / that to the Corinth. S. Paul speaketh off Apostles, Prophets, and Doctors, leaving owt Evangelists, and Pastors: and now to avoid my reply to that answer / he saith / clean contrary / that the Apostle made there a perfect diuisiō of offices. But let us see whether this change be for the better.

Where he saith / Saint Paul did more perfectly devide to the Corinth. then to the Ephes. he is deceived. For even by his own confession / he speaking there of preaching offices only / not off all offices off the church / and there being none other preaching offices / but those which he reckoneth up: yt followeth that he made there a perfect division. In the place to the Corinth. that there is no perfect division / although the D. words he changed / yet his reason he used standeth still: that the Evangelist is not there mentioned, nor Pastor, which were offices in the church. Beside that he keepeth in this refutatiō his old wont: which is to cut the knot / and not to lose yt. For he bringeth reasons of his to prove the perfectiō of the division / without answering mine. And yet his be such / as are unworthy answer. For in the first / beside that yt is untrue / that the Apostle made a perfect division of gifts in the church: if he had / yet it followeth not that he made the same in offices / especially whē he will needs separate offices from gifts. The second reason (therefore yt is a perfect division, because there is added first, second, third) is as simple as the first. for those words are not put there to note the nonebre of offices / but to declare which is highest in degree / and which next / &c. and if they did: yet I never could yet read / that they were notes off a perfect division. His third (because yt hath moe members then that in the Ephes • .) I think he understandeth by this time what strength yt hath: if he remember that which I answered / that the Apostles meaning to the Eph. was / not to devide the offices of the church in general / but those only which handle the word. unless par adventure he think / that he maketh a fuller partition / which divideth both the hands into eight fingers / then which denideth one into five. Martyrs authority doth not help him. For he saith not that he reckoneth all the partes of the church particularly / or how many it hath / which he should have said to help him: but only that he reckoneth up what members the church hath / which he doth that reherseth some.

Whether a bishop be contained under a Pastor / or rather a Pastor under a bishop: shall not now be the question. But yow are inconstant in all your ways / and have one sentence standing / another sitting. For albeit I should agree with yow / that a bishop is a Pastor: yet yow do not agree with your self. For otherwere in stretching owt the Bishops arms / yow have thes words: a bishop is both superior in office, and gifts unto a Pastor. If he be so / he cannot be contained under him: for that which containeth another thing / hath at the least all in itself / which the contained hath. Again if I grant a bishop contained under the Pastor S. Paul speaketh of: yet I will not grant that the bishop yow mean (which having so many churches to rule / hath never a one where he doth the office off a bishop) is contained under S. Paul's Pastor. For seeing his foundation is laid in Jerome's bishop / proved before / and after / not to be of the institutiō of God / but off man: yt cannot be / that our kind of bishop should be comprehended under S. Paul's Pastor. Whereupon also followeth / that the archbishop which hath a necessary relation to that kind off bishop / and cannot stand without him: is not by any means contained under S. Paul's Pastor. The proofs of your division of bishops into archbishops / and those called by the common name of bishops / are as doubtful as that wherefor they are brought.

To prove that the office off an Archbishop was in S. Paul's time / although the name were not / is brought the word Consubstantial▪ which being the common hook off the Papists / to pull in their vnwrittē verities / owght to serve the reader for a watch word / that tharbishops office needing this physic / is sick off the same disease. And for the word itself / although it be lawful / and very convenient / and the council off Syrme did not well in yealding unto the Arians to the displacing of it: yet yt is not necessary / as without which the doctrine off the truth off the divinity off our Savior Christ / cannot be maintained. For to say so / were to accuse the holy writers / S. John especially: which debating that cause against the heretics of his time / Cerinthus / Ebion / &c. did never use it. But what is this unto the Archbishop? let us have but one testimony owt off the word off God off the office off an Archbishop / for the infinite testimonies off the divinity of the son of God: and then this example may help yow. And although the word Consubstantial were not in S. Paul's time: Yet words off the same weight were. If yow can show therefore words of the same value with Archbishop / although yow show not this / yt shall be sufficient: if yow cannot / then this example maketh against yow. Here also is further to be observed / that this answer off the D. off the office of the archbishop being in the Apostles time / although the name was not / is the armor wherewith the Popes title of universal bishop is maintained. For this is Hardinges answer to the bishop / that although the name of universal bishop / was not at the first given to the Pope: yet the authority was. After he flieth to his old refuge of the Prince / and there seeketh cover for the Archbishop: asking whether he shall have no authority in the church, because he was not in S. Paul's time. Although S. Paul had said that our Savior Christ had given princes unto his church immediately after his ascension / as he beareth us in hand he gave archbishops: ether they must have had authority then / or never after. So keeping your similitude / if our Savior gave Archbishops when he ascended / and in S. Paul's time: ether they must have had their authority then / or never after. And the case is nothing like. for if there were no Christian Princes in the Apostles times / they being needful for preservation off the churches: the cause was that it was not in the Apostles power / to ordain Christian Princes. But it was in their power to have provided the churches off Archbishops / if they had been needful: and therefore they had been inexcusable for not appointing them / serving so greatly to the building off the church / as we are borne in hand.

Moreover the comparison is most unfitly made: seeing the civil magistrate is a perpetual office for all times / persons / places: whereas by his own confession / the Archbisop is temporal / and arbitrary. Where also he asketh whether the civil Magistrate shall not have the chief authority in governing the church, because there ys no express mention off him in thes two places: I answer that the Princes authority is established in other places / so that it may flourish without thes. But the Archbishopric / seeing yt ys an ecclesiastical function / ether must be planted by one off thes places / or die in the church considering that there is no ecclesiastical function / which is not here set forth. Yowr collection off my words is evil bound together. for how cleave thes? Some offices instituted off God endured for a time, therefore men may devise new offices. Where lieth the strength of your argument? Whether in this that because God instituted offices for a time / therefore man may: or in this that God did abrogate certain offices / therefore man may institute? Which soever yow say (as yow must needs say one): the absurdity is apparent. for in both the comparison is made / between the authority off God / and thautoritie off man. Betwene whom how great distance there is: so great difference is there between your argument / and a just conclusion. The clean contrary is gathered rather. For as we reason against the Papists / that God did not abrogate his own ceremonies / that men should thrust in others considering that if he would have had ceremonies / he would have taken off his own: so yt may be said / that God did not cut off his own ministries / to make place for others: and that if moe ministries off preaching / and governing jointly had been necessary / beside Doctors / and Pastors: he would rather have kept his own / then takē those which men devise.

Here all shifts / and coulors failing him / and not being once able to lift at this reason: he hath changed my argument. For where I had said yt forth in a plain hypothetical Syllogism: he hath altered yt. But I will offer yt him again, if under Saint Paul's Pastor the archbishop be comprehended, then he is necessary, and commanded by the word off God: but yow say he is comprehended: therefore he is commanded and necessary. Which if it be true: then yow are fallen from your distinction / of things necessary to salvation / and not necessary / off things arbitrary / and commanded by the word off God. But let us see now yow have prepared the argument after your own fashion / and as yow thought yow could weld yt / how yow deal with yt. Yow say first this proposition (Pastors are necessary at all times) is particular. verily the masters / by whom this should be judged / never taught that an indefinite proposition in a necessary matter / is particular. But because yow like not the form which I used / yow shall have it after your own in this sort. All S. Paul's Pastors are necessary: the Archbishop (as yow say) is one off S. Paul's Pastors: therefore he is necessary. Here if yow deny the first proposition: yow have the whole council / and Senate almost of learned men against yow: affirming that those two / Pastor / and Doctor / are amongst the rest perpetual offices. And if to be a perpetual office be verified off the Pastor / which S Paul speaketh of: then it must be verified off all contained underneath / amongst whom yow say the Archbishop is. Secondly the Archbishop being made one off the gifts / which our Savior ascending sent unto his church: if yt were in the power off the church ether to establish / or not to establish him: yt should be in her power to refuse the gifts off Christ. which if it be absurd: that also must be whereof this followeth. Thirdly if the Archbishop be necessary at any time (which must needs be if he be comprehended under S. Paul's Pastor): then goeth to the ground his common refuge / that his office may be instituted / or not / at the churches will.

Moreover if he say that it is necessary / and commanded a • some time / and not at others: what a miserable case is the church in / that hath no certain address owt of the word / when that necessity and commandment beginneth / and when it endeth: when this office is in season / when owt of season? Lastly forasmuch as S. Paul speaketh of offices thē in the chuch / not of those which came after (as the Ans. himself is forced to confess) the Archbishops office must needs have been in the Apostles time. Which if it be true: those times being (as the Answ. hath borne us in hand) so unlike ours: the persons in the church then off so different dispositions from those now / the place also / the gospel being thē in the East partes / where now it is in the West: it must needs follow that this monely office off the archbishop / which ebbeth and floweth / being fit for the Apostles times / is by all likelihood unfit for ours. His distinction unto the second proposition is / that an Archbishop in respect off the ministry off the word, and Sacraments is necessary always: but not in respect of policy, and government. Which is as much to say / as an archbishop when he is an archbishop / is always necessary for the church. For when he hath not the outward government / then by your own rule he is no archbishop: then which speech what can be more absurd? And of this answer followeth / that there is a time when the Pastors have nothing to do with the external policy / and government off the church / but only to administer the word / and Sacraments: and then the church shall be an heap / and not a body / a confused multitude / not an orderly society. Yet in the next section / he giveth the government off the church and order unto the bishops / and archbishops / and will have them part the stake off the Apostles authority which they had in the church. And as this answer is absurd: so yt ys contrary to that he hath set down in his former book / that not only the office off the Archbishop is necessary, but most necessary.

I said before that the Apostle speaketh to the Ephes. off ministries which have to do with preaching the word: but never added (as yow in your Doctors book / and here) and not those which have to do with order, and discipline. Therefore I had nothing forgotten myself, if be would have understanded that which is plain to all the world. for thes two may well stand together / the Apostle spake there only off functions conversant in the word: and the Lord spake of those functions which Preach the word, and administer the government. for the word only / doth not seclude government from those ministries: but shutreth owt all ministries not preaching / as that off the Elder / and Deacon. And yt is one thing to say / the Lord spake there only off preaching ministries: another to say / he spake there of ministries only preaching: which (me thinketh) yow could not be ignorant of. Therefore Saint Paul reckoning up the ministries there / which have together with the preaching of the word / the administration off government / and making no mention off the Archbishop / supposed to have both: yt followeth that yow are yet behind with your answer. I have not confuted my shadow, but your fond fantasy. For if S. Paul speak in that place, of those that have the ministry off the word, and Sacraments only, and not off those which have to do with the order of discipline: yt followeth that Apostles have nothing to do with order / and discipline / forsomuch as they are amongst those / which S. Paul there speaketh of. If this cogitacion never entered into your head: how cometh it to pass / that yt ys found in your papers?

Lastly yow say the administration off discipline, and government in the Apostles, is fallen upon the Archbishops, and bishops, the overthrow off my whole assertion If a man will believe yow speaking / he may: otherwise here is nothing but I said yt. And surely yt must be a very simple hold / that is cast down with this paper shot of bare affirmatiō. but if yow will weigh a little what yow say: yow shall see that if there be any bullet at all in this your saying / yt is charged wholly upon your self. For before yow have said once / or twice that the office, and authority off an Archbishop was in the Apostles times. Which if yt be true / how doth the Archbishop receive his auauritie off order / and government by their death? for having yt before / he cannot receive yt by their departure. Ether therefore this is untrue / that the archbishop exerciseth the same authority which the Apostles: or that which yow said before / that the office off the Archbishop was in the Apostles time: or else this third is true / that he having in the Apostles time / authority which he hath now: by their death obtained beside their former authority / that which the Apostle had also. Which how near it pricketh at the papacye / I leave to everyone to consider. But if the Archbishop will succeed unto the administration off order / and government off the Apostles: why showeth he not his evidence? why bringeth he not forth his records of bequest / off resignation: that it may appear he is not entered as a trespasser.

In that sense which I have shown in another place / I grant it true which Jerome saith / that all bishops succeed unto the Apostles: but show me who speaketh anything off the succession off the archbishop unto them. Nay verily that is flat against the archbishops authority. For if every bishop have that authority in his church / which the Apostles had in all the world: it followeth that there nether needeth / nether can be any archbishop to receive any thereof. And that if any archbishop challenge a greater authority / then is in any one bishop: he pulleth to himself greater authority in his province / then ever the Apostles had in the world. And by the same reason that they be Lord's / and superiors over bishops: they must be lords / and superiors in their province over the Apostles them selves / if they were alive. Considering they rule over those / which in their dioceses have the same authority that the Apostles had. This I speak / not that I think the Bishops had not this authority / from the very birth / and foundation off the function / as touching the government off their churches / or that there came any authority unto them by the Apostles death / which they had not in their times: but that yt may be understanded / that if there were any such succession unto the Apostles government / as the D. phansieth: the bishops are the right beyres / and that not certain (other some shut forth) but everyone as Jerome saith. Although if the archbishop should have an Apostolical authority in governing his province: it hath appeared / and more shall (God willing) that the Apostles government was far from that principality / and rule one over another / which the archbishops challenge over their under bishops. The next division I will not answer. The next unto that / I report me to the reader / whether I have faithfully / and almost servilely bound myself unto his words / in translating thes pieces of his latin pāphlet. For the next also / I having shown that yow placing the Apostles function in preaching / and ministering the Sacraments / not in government: and assigning to the archbishop both Administratiō off the word / and Sacraments / and order and discipline / must needs lay greater weight upon the archbishop / then upon the Apostles: if yow now revoke yt / I am glad. Howbeit ashamed to speak it in so many words / even yet the course off this treatise doth breath nothing else.

This is no answer unto my reason. For if the church without the Archbishop / and Archdeacon / be a body consisting of all the partes / comely knit together / wherein nothing wanteth / nor nothing is to much: then it followeth / that thes offices bring nether ornement / nor accomplishement to the church / but make only an unprofitable knob / and lump off flesh / to the both disfuguring / and hindrance off the growght off the body. And the ministry off order / and policy of the church / being one part off this body: if it be not whole / and complete / but need to be peeced owt with archbishops / and Archdeacons: it must draw with it this absurdity / that there being one member imperfect without them / the body also off Christ is not perfect. And where it ys said / that as in the Apostles times the church was not perfect without them, and Prophets, &c. so it is not now, meaning thereby (as both before / and after hath appeared) that the archbishops should supply the room off the Apostles: I answer that the Argument holdeth not. For considering that the perfection off the body / must be measured by the will off him whose the body is / that is Christ: as when he gave Apostles / Evangelists / &c. he made it appear that he would not have his body perfect without them: so when he took them away from his church / he made it known that the body was perfect without thē. If Apostles / and Evangelists had been put down by authority of man: then yt might have helped yow / that as men put down Mynisteries / so they might supply them with other. But seeing they were taken away by the Lord: this your reason in effect (because God taketh away, therefore men may administeries) hath no strength in it. And where all this drift is / that yow would have the archbishops office come in for the Apostles / and therefore say that their authority over the pastors doth, and must remain in such places, as there be churches: besides my former answer unto this point / yow are again taken in the words off your own lips. For if it must remain: then the office off the archbishop which yow make the vessel to receive this authority in / and whose office (yow say) consisteth in the rule off other pastors, is not variable / and depending off circumstance off time / &c. but perpetual / and constant.

If Bucer speak as yow make him: I can by no means subscribe unto him. For S. Luke saith plainly / that there were many bishops at Ephesus: and giveth the name off bishop to many. That the name off bishop did properly remain in one off them, and improperly in the other / if it have so good authority as the former / I will believe that too: if not / I hold me unto the words off S. Luke. And if the name off bishop doth improperly belong unto those / whom Saint Paul saith the holy ghost had appointed bishops: over the church: I confess that I cannot tell what authority is sufficient / to make that name off bishop proper unto them. And if the name off bishop did not properly belong unto them all / but unto one only: yt followeth that the name also of an Elder / did not properly belong unto them. For the one of them ys as well verified of them / as the other: and there is no more restreint off the name off bishop then of an Elder / unto any one singular person amongst them. And how is this sentence off Bucer here pulled in by the hear? for albeit it were concluded / that one bishop should bear dominiō over the ministers of one church: yet yt followeth not which is here in question / that one also owght to rule over all bishops in a province. The rest is answered.

In deed I deny, but yow affirm that there be still Apostles / Prophets / &c. and therefore by your saying / that order which was then / owght now also to be continued. And although your archbishop were under gownde: yet order in ecclesiastical mynistries remaineth / that the teaching Elders should be a degree above those which govern only / and they above the Deacons. The marck I shoot at is certain / that is to confute your distinction off ministries off the word / and Sacraments only / and ministries off government / and order: and it seemeth I shot so nigh / that I have driven yow away from the marck. For yow wander / and tell us of things that have nether head / nor foot: and which if they were true / make nether hot / nor kold unto this question. For if your learned interpreters, have well defined S. Paul's rule (the Elders which rule are worthy) &c. when they say yt is to serve Christ, and his church faithfully, in doctrine, and integrity off life &c: then it must suffice your Archbishop to do so / and no more. For if yow think that every minister in his church / is barred by that definition from further government / then which consisteth in preaching / administering the Sacraments / uncorrupt life / &c: it followeth that he meddling with moe then those / breaketh the bounds off good government. After yow make another rode owt off the question / bearing the reader in hand / that I would conclude owt off that place equality off ministers when as my purpose was as I have shown / to confute your vain distinction. Which although yow here deny: yet the print off your hand is deeper / then yow can wipe owt by thes so strong / but little honest denials. For unless yow refer this word only, to the secluding off the ministries mentioned to the Ephesians / from the government / and policy off the church: your answer falleth as is before declared. Considering that yow laboring to make a difference between those ministries / and the Archbishops / make none: if they together with administratiō off the word / and Sacraments / handle also order / and government. And although yow had quite left owt the word only: yet thes words (the Apostle doth recite those ministries which are occupied in prayer, the word, and Sacraments: not off them which are instituted for order, and discipline) have that sense which I have given them. For if he speak off those which minister the word / and Sacraments / not off those instituted for government / &c. yt followeth that he speaketh off those which minister the word / and Sacraments only. As he that saith a man is justified by faith / and not by works: saith that he is justified by faith only. The bolt shot upon no occasion / touching the papacy off every pastor in his church, and off shaking off the Princes authority, being that which cometh every hand while / when he hath naught else to say / shall be broken in another place. For the two next diuis. let the reader judge off the writings off both sides.

My words have light enough to have kept yow from this wandering / but that yow take pleasure in untruth. for beside that the scope off my disputation / doth beat yow from that vagarie: my words are plain. For I say not that everyone that occupieth a ministry in the church, hath gifts sufficient for his calling: but every function, or ministry off the church, hath gifts sufficient, &c. And if your understanding be so narrow as yow pretend: understand it by examples. And because our question is of offices necessary for our times / and therefore likewise off the gifts: yow may learn that the office off a Pastor / is (as hath been shown) a several office from the Doctor / because beside the knowledge / and dexterity in teaching / the wisdom / and discretion in governing: yt hath also annexed the grace to move affections / ether to the love of good / or hatred off evil. Likewise the Doctor frō the Elder: because beside the gift off government enough for that function / there is required as I have said ability to teach. The Deacon from the Elder: for that beside faithfulness / and reasonable wisdom / which is sufficient for the gathering / and bestowing of the church money: is required with greater wisdom a singular diligence / as off him whose charge reacheth unto the whole / where the other pertaineth to the poor of the church only: and which is occupied in relieving the poverties off the mind / where the other is off the body. This is that I said / every function hath proper gifts for the execution of it: and that forsomuch as now there is no gift necessary for the ecclesiastical ministry / not contained in thes / and that all thes fall into the ordinary ministry instituted / and specified in the scripture: therefore thes ordinatie Ministries specified in scripture / are sufficient. And as it is a good reason that there are no moe Sacraments but baptism / and the supper / forsomuch as there is no promise off life everlasting not expessed in thes / considering that thone sealeth up / and assureth that we are received into the house off God / the other that we shall befed in it to life everlasting: even so thes ministries / are proved to be sufficient / because all gifts necessary to good order / and conduit off the church / are promised unto them.

Against this is said / that God tieth not his gifts to a certain number off names, but bestoweth them where it pleaseth him. I spake not off all gifts / but of gifts necessary to govern the church with all: and those being necessarily tied unto the offices which have / and owght to have / those names: all other church offices are shut forth / as those which are ether idle / or hurtful. That there are functions necessary Coriath. 12. not mentioned to the Ephesians, and again that the Apostle did not make a perfect division in ether off those places, is only to trifle owt the time. forsomuch as I added expressly / that I grounded my reason off both places jointly besides that it is untrue that Deacons, and widows are left owt to the Corinth. being contained in the word helps. Moreover this is the third contrary sentence / which he hath given off Corin. 12. for in the latin book he proveth / that there is no perfect division there: in this he goeth about to prove by reason / and authority / that it is pecfect: here he saith it is not perfect Such force hath the truth / that yt maketh them all guiddy / and turnesick that wrestle against it: not perfect, perfect, not perfect. so that the very Chameleon itself / could never so soudenly / and into so contrary coulors change itself. Against his exception that there are reckoned up in those places offices which endured for a time: I grant there were so / but those ceasing (as hath been shown) their proper gifts also be gone with them. Where he addeth that he could tell me, that the church hath authority to appoint names, and offices: yt is that in questiō / which he often saith / but never proveth. Towching Readers / it is answered: as for Catechistes / they are to be discussed after.

The argument which yow say is too bad for a boy, is as good as I can make any. I will leave it to the judgment of all which have skill / how yow uncover your self in your exceptions against it. For to omit that I have said / and leave to be judged / of arguments good of particulars: my first propositiō is universal / if this be / the servant that knoweth his masters will, and doth it not, shall be beaten with many stripes: and this / they that do the will of my father which is in heaven, shall enter into the kingdom off heaven: he that is not with me, is against me: those which go after other gods, shall lose their good: and an infimite number moe / to be seen both in holy / and profane writers. But as the ruder sort know not the King / unless he have his crown vpō his head: so the D. hath no marck to know a general proposition by / unless it have this word All, upon the head of it.

Likewise where he saith this word (only) is not to be found in the seconde proposition: He should have understanded / that it is a parte off the principal extremes / and therefore could not enter there. It ys his great want / that he cannot know one term / from another / unless they stand in their natural order. for because he saw not thes words (only are sufficient) in the natural place off the extreme / as one that had no mark to discern the master from the man / but by going before and behind / he takethe one for another. When S. John saithe in the beginning was the word, and by and by after / God was that word, with many such examples both in holy / and profane writ: those that have but a little judgment can tell / that although he changed the natural order / yet those are still the first partes / which are put in the later place: and that it ys as much as if he had said / The word was in the beginning, and the vorde was God. This is therefore the argument, which in the Ans. sight hath no manner off form. Those functions which have all gifts needful / ether for the ministering off the word / and Sacraments / or for the government off the church / only are sufficient: the functions reckoned up off Saint Paul in both the places / to the Ephes and Corinth. have all gifts needful / ether for ministering off the word / and Sacraments / or for government of the church: therefore those functions only are sufficient. Let the reader therefore judge / whether this argument be like unto thes sweepinges / that he hath matched it with. That an archbishop is a new ministry / is declared. Where he saith if no man appoint new offices, but he which can give gifts to discharge them, it should follow, that no man might appoint offices: if he understand as he owght to do ecclesiastical offices / it is that I maintain. if he leap over here (as his custom is) to civil: I have shown that the reason is not like.

Half this diuis. is in the tenth off this chap. where yt hath answer. My argument here (a man may not ad to the ministries, because he may not take away) is first off things apparently like: as those which are likewise forbidden / likewise punished. Then it hath this ground / that they being contrary fall into one subject: except one be naturally in it / as heat in fire. (Which I am constrained to speak of / because I have to do with such a trifler / as would snatch at this exception / although nothing to prurpose.) So that as he that hath authority to make laws / hath also to abrogate / he which may absolve may condemn / he that may bind may loose: so he that hath power to ad / hath also to diminish. But marck what the D. answereth. The question is whether men may ad to the ministries: the mean / and argument whereby I prove they cannot, because it is not lawful to diminish: now when he answereth / that men may ad / doth he not give that for answer which is the question / and take that for his proof / which is to be proved? And as for that which followeth (the added ministries may be helps to ministries instituted off God): yt is likewise in controversy / being as doubtful as the rest. And the Papists may as well answer thus / for the multiplying off their Sacraments: as the D. for increase off the ministries. But forsomuch as thes are your common answers / here is nothing new / or to be wondered at. Unto the second proposition he saith / men may take away offices off God which are temporal (that is enduring for a time) but not perpetual. Wherein he is greatly abused. For nether any man / nor all men in the world / could have put down the temporal ministries off Apostles / Evangelists / &c. which the Lord ordained / unless the Lord himself had withdrawn them: and therefore they so long remained in the church / until he by their death / without raising up any seed unto them (by distribution of those gifts whereby those ministries might be furnished) declared that they had an end.

The Ans. in defense of this forged Doctors / is like unto one which to defend him from the kolde / covereth himself with a wet sack. For before his ignorance might have in part excused him: now by this maintenance off his answer / he hath doubled his folie. For first to make himself clean / he defileth as much as he can / Master Calvin / and the Bishop off Salisbury: both which he nether showeth to have used this Clement / and if they do: yet their use of him / or such like / is so farfrō lessening his fault / that is maketh it more appear. For they use them against the Papists / which for the moste part attributing unto them as great weight of authority / as to the scriptures themselves / are so set up. Which they do also thereby to drive from them: that if they cannot be brought from the confidence they have in such / because they are false: at least they might be brought to mislike them / because they make against them. Likewise when they allege them / they give them such an ear marck / that all may know them forged. But the D. doth use them against those / which hunger for proofs at his hands owt off the word off God / in the matters debated: which have that estimation that is meet should be had / off such filth as that is: which could not give credit unto this authority / without renouncing the profession off the gospel / which we have in common. And in steed off giving him his ear marck: he putteth a night cap upon him / to hide it with. for in steed off alleging off him owt off the epistles / where he appeareth with his horns / and claws plainly: he maketh him come owt of Polidore / as disguised owt off a strange country. and because Polidores words did not muffle him sufficiently / in saying that this was contained in a little summary off Christian religion: he (that Clement might go the better unknown) added / in a book entitled, &c. which I merueil with what face he citeth Polidore for. as if there were no difference between his / and Polidorc • words. And he is not content only to have alleged the authority: but as in a certain / and undoubted victory / he triumpheth / and insulteth upon his adversary: sarie: saying / Peter was not Antichrist, ergo the name off an Archbishop, is not Antichristian.

In the second place he saith / he used them not •• sure grownde • , but as probable testimonies off antiquity of the name. Wherein his hand being with the Papists / is against not only the manifest truth / but all those godly writers / which reject those epistles as upstarts / and lately forged under a hedge. For against them all the D. saith / that it is very probable that they have that antiquity which they pretend. Thirdly / he compareth them with the Canons attributed unto the Apostles: whereof albeit diverse •• e falsely fathered: yet those creeping in at sundry times / were ••• w •• standing some 100. years / before this dross came •• to the church. Whereupon also the corruptions in them / although they • a • ter the walls off the city off God: yet they rase not the foundacions off it / as this Clement doth: nether are they alleged off me (as he pretendeth) but with atteint off the baseness off their birth. And for my alleging off Higinus: I refer me to the indgement off the reader / what a cognizance I have given him there / to be known by.

His last refuge is / that yt is like Polidore meant some other book. not now extant. For confutation off which unshamefast speech / to what end should I other allege the latenes off the time wherein he wrote / or vnfoundnes off his judgment? whereby he having not made half a turn from Popery unto the gospel: might by all likelihood think / that those were Clementes epistles. The weakness off his own proofs do betray him / as those that make more against / then for him. For if he will make difference between a gross epistle / and a little book: the precise distinction tendeth rather to prove a book / then an Epistle. And for the length / it is manifest: considering that Tully calleth such long letters / a volume: and in two or three epistles drawn owt beyond the ordinary / correcteth himself / as breaking the bonds off an Epistle. The same may be said both off the matter handled / and off the manner off handling. Which being nether common / nor familiar if a man will speak as the Latins (whom Polidore followeth) use: they were fitter for a book / then an Epistle. That Clement scarce knowing what difference there is / between the nominative / and accusative case: yt was no merueill if he were ignorant off the difference / between a book / and an epistle: and therefore not unlike / but Polidore helped him in his title. for the next diuis. I am content that the issue declare / from whence the archbishop came.

This is deintie / and tender geere / and such as I cannot deal with. diverse times before his answer hath been / that the archbishops ministry differeth from the Bishops touching order: here he saith / they differ not in order. before to prove that the church might appoint an archbishop / he said / that it might appoint an office / beside the offices off the scriptures: now he is gone from that / saying the Archbishops ministry is no other ministry, but another degree. Also in another place / he to maintain the archbishop saith / the church may ad ministries: here because he is ashamed off that / he denieth that yt is a new ministry. Then forasmuch as his answer standeth in this difference / off ecclesiastical office / and degree / and again between ecclesiastical degree / and order: because I think they were never heard off before / they need some authority off the scripture / at least some Ecclesiastical writers to confirm them. And beside that in ecclesiastical writers / the ministries are separated one from another by degree: the Ans. himself in another place / will have the word degree (when it is said / they get unto them selves a good degree) to signify a diverse ministry from the Deaconship. Likewise in another place / to prove that a Bishop is above a priest / he upon certain authorities concludeth / that in those times there were three degrees off ministers / bishop / priest / and deacon. whereupon yt must follow / that if the Archbishop differ from the bishop in degree ecclesiastical: he must differ in ministry / even as the degree off deacon / being different from the Elder / maketh a several ministry from yt. yea theruppon followeth / that there being then but three degrees in the church / whereof the archbishop was none by his own saying: there was then no archbishop / seeing he maketh him a several degree from them: which is a manifest overthrow off that he defendeth.

In another place to prove Timothy archbishop / he alledgeth that the office off tharchhishops, and bishops be one, because whatsoever is necessary for a bishop, is necessary for an archbishop: which is ridiculous. For then a bishop is all one with an Elder / considering that whatsoever is necessary for an Elder / is necessary for a bishop: and the Evangelists office the same that an Apostles / considering that whatsoever is necessary for an Euang. is necessary for an Apostle. Where to prove the offices all one / he should have said / not only that it is necessary for an archbishop which is for a bishop: but also that whatsoever is necessary for an archbishop / • s likewise for a bishop. Where he saith / they differ only in order, and policy, and therefore all attributed in the Epistle to Timothy the Archbishop, agreeth unto every bishop: thereof followeth that a common (as he is called) not differing in office from our bishop (as himself confesseth after) shall by the same reason / have power to do all things described in that epistle / and consequently make ministers / and put owt as well as our bishops do. Thes things therefore were given owt / or ever they were well thought off: some time the archbishop differeth in office from a bishop / sometime he differeth not: sometime he differeth in order / sometime not: some time in degree / sometime not.

To prove that S. Peter by himself / without the authority off other Apostles / instituted Archbishops / ys brought the example off S. Paul, which made Timothy, and Tite Archbishops: which is to prove one thing in controversy / by that which is likewise. and is all one as if one doubting the suffiencie off his creditor / in steed off some substantial man to assure his debt / should have a banck rowt brought to be bownd unto him. Which manner off reasoning when all men know how absurd it is: it appeareth that the Ans. using it continually / is (as they say) at the end off his rolle. That S. Paul did not appoint Titus / and Timothy of his own authority only / hath before appeared: that he did not appoint thē Archbishops / shall afterward (God willing) be shown. Beside that yt hath been already off Timothy shown / that he was an Evangelist: and the same reason is off Tite.

To my other reason / that S. Peter would not graff the most noble plant (as it is counted) off the ministry off the gospel / in the rotten stock off Archflamines: he answereth that Peter might place Archbishops where the Archflamines were, not in respect off them, but in respect off the city. Which distinction I confess I understand not: only I see / that in this cloud / and mist off confused / and vndistinct distinctiō / he would steal away vnespied. for if in the same cities only where there were Archflamines (as we are borne in hand) and in place off them Archbishops were placed: and as the Archflamines were set to oversee the flamines / so the Archbishops to oversee the bishops: how can it be but they were placed as well in respect off those Achflamines / as off the cities? For they differ not in this point from Archflam. considering that as archbishops were placed in respect off great cities: so were the Archflam. before them. Here also the Answ. floteth in his judgment off Peter. For before he said / he had the chief rule off the ••• stles in all matters: and here / he was not above them in power. so that unless he can mynce us a diversity between superior in rule / and superior in power: yt is clear that he is not the same man here / that he was there.

The lords priests / and Sacrafices were before the priests / and sacrifices off the Gentills. therefore that exception (God instituted priests and sacrifices though the Gentiles had the like) •• vain to prove that there may be Archbishops / as there were Archflamines. A Kinge was necessary for the Israelites, to shadow out to thē the kingdom of our S. Christ: therefore that example is out of place. To prove conformite between the people of God / and Idolaters in things which are not necessary / as the Archebishoprick is confessed / beside that yt ys an evil conclusion / to say there may be conformity between the people off God / and Idolaters in civil affairs / therefore in ecclesiastical: to ordain a biship, and minister being the institution of God / in every church where there was other a flamen, or mass preiste, cannot be said to be framed according to those orders. But to ordain an Archbishop not instituted off God / both in that place where the Archflamen was / and with that rule / and authority over the bishops / which the archflam. had over their flamēs: cannot be imagined / but to have been framed according to that Idolatrous function. If yow will therefore make the like: yow must prove that as yt ys the institution of God / that in every church there should be a bishop / or minister: so yt ys likewise his institution / that in every great city / there should be an Archbishop. The allegation out of master Fox in the next / pertaineth not to this place. For the question is not here / whether the Archbishops came in steed off Arflamines / but wether S. Peter did ordain archbishops in place off the archflamines: which I assure myself yow cannot show out off him.

Here he hath at one push / thrust the archbishop quite out off the church. For if this be a good reason / there were no deacons emongeste the Jews / because they were not specified in the old Testament: then yt is likewise true / that forsomuch as there ys no Archbishop specified in the New Testament / there was no Archbishop in the Apostles times. Againste this take off Peters ordaining off Archbishops in the place off Archeflamens / add this / that the vanity off yt may appear: forasmuch as if there were any Archeflamens in S. Peters time / they were upholden off the Magystrates that lived in those days. And therefore to put down them / and place other in their roumes / there was required S. Peter / beside his keys should have a sword / and an army off men. For the Magystrates being then (as the Ans. himself granteth) heathenishe / and Idolatrous: this alteraciō could never be made / but by strong hand / and at the swords point. The rest / bare affirmations / and confuted in other places / I leave. Whether the Sadducees were collectors for the poor / I will not enter further into: although his reason / off not being specified in the old testament, is insufficient. For yt ys enough if yt be in new or old: considering that the baptisyng off the Israelites in the sea / and spiritual feeding by Manna / and the water following them / being under the old Testament: are only specifyed in the new. beside that his argument is negative off one part off the scripture / which he condemneth in us off the whole.

Agaynste the reason I bring to prove / that there were no Archflamines / ys answered that the matter ys not great yt standeth upon the life off the Archbishop. For if yt be found a Canturberye tale / off Saint Peters placyng off Archbishops in place off Archflamynes: being not off the Apostles planting / We may both boldlyer / and easilier pull him up by the roots. Then he saith / an argument off human autorytye negatyue, ys not good. Wherein I refer myself to that said before in that behalf / and leave yt to every man's consideration / what lykelyhood there ys that there were such / when Tullye dyuiding / and distinguyshing the offices occupied about their God's / maketh no mention off that / supposed to have been cheyf. Where he asketh why the Grecians might not call him Archflamin, whom Tully called Flamen Dialis: I am content / let that be trial. And if he can show me ether Plutarch / or Dyonisyus Halicarnaseus / or any other good greek / or latin ancient writer / that there was any such office: I will move no further disputation in this matter. Therefore I would gladly know of yow / what pr • ph •• e 〈◊〉 they be which make mention off thes Archflamines. For the founteines from which this report cometh / are not ecclesiastical / but papistical.

Last off all / to prove that there were Archflamines / and withal to lay open my unskillfulness in stories, yt is alleged that there were such in England. But how doth he show my unskillfulness / which showeth nothing wherein I prevented him not? I knew well that there were that said so / I alleged them: but with what truth / and fidelity / that ys the question. To deciding whereof beside reproaches / what ys brought? he will say peradventure M. Fox. If thow turn gentle reader the other side off the leaf / wherowt the sentence ys taken: thow shalt understand manifest treachery. for M. Fox disputeth against this opinion / and useth diverse reasons which confute flatly this fable / off the conversion off England by Eleutherius Ambassadors: and setteth down that sentence by way off concession / rather carried against his will by certain stories in this untruth / then led by his own Iudgemente. Note also that the D. ys directly here for Harding / against the Bishop off Sarum / both in this fable / off Eleutherius / and the Archflamines. For touching archflamines he saith / yt ys a mere fantasy, grounded upon an unsavory fable off Clementes, and Anacletus: and that nether the name Archflamines, or protaflamines, is to be found in any ancient allowed writer. and touching the other fable of Eleutherius / objected by Harding as now by the D. he answereth / it is untrue: adding reasons there to be seē. And that this fable whereof Geoffrey Monumetēsis was autor / may better appear: having a little treatise thereof sent me with M. Foxes leaf / well writ̄ in that behalf / that in the profit the church shall receive / the autor also may have some fruit off his trauaill / I will here set yt down.

Geoffrey Monumetensis maketh here in Britayn before Lucius time / 28. flamines / and 3. Archflamines / and when Lucius received the Christian faith / that the 28. flamines were changed into 28. Bishops / and the 3. Archflam. into 3. Archbishops / which had three seats in the three chief cities off the Isle / London / Yorck / and Caerust. Unto London was subject Loegria / unto Yorck Deira / and Albanya / unto Caerusk Cambry • . Thus all the Isle by this story off Geoffrey / should become Christened in Lucius time. But this could not come to pass upon Lucius receiving the Religion of Christ / unless he had been king over all Britayn. Now the manner off the Britaynes was not to have one king alone / but many: as may most plainly appear both before Lucius time / and after / by the old Roman histories / and also by Gildas the Britanie historiographer / who lived about 1100. ago. Diodorus Siculus saith / there are many kings / and Frinces: when he speaketh off Brytain / showing what yt was in the days off Julius Caesar. After whom the Emperor that did attempt to subdue the Brytaines / was Claudius / more then 50. years after that Julius Caesar made war upon them: at which time what the government of Brytanes was in having Kings / thus writeth Dion Cassius. The Britain's were not free, but subject to diverse Kings Now an hundredth year after this almost / which is nigh the time that Lucius is said by Geoffrey to be King of Britayn / thus writeth Cornelius Tacitus. In times past they obeyed Kings, now by Princes they are distracted with factions, and partes taking, nether is there any other thing more profitable for us against most mighty nations, then that they take no common counsel: yt is seldom that two or three cities come together, to withstand a common danger. so whilst they fight severally, they are ouercommed wholly. This writeth Tacitus / son in law off that Lucius Agricola / who had the rule off this Isle 8. years continual in the reign off Domitian the Emperor: and therefore could not but well understand / the manner off the Britain's in having at once many Princes / given to tumults.

Now in the days off Seuerus the Emperor / who reigned by and by after this time / in which Lucius ys said King of Britain's: hear what ys reported by a writer even off that age / and which was for the most part / in the wars off the Romans himself. Amongest the Brytaines, the people for a great part have the rule. To conclude Gildas himself / in his invective Epistle against the Britain's / maketh mentiō of diverse kings / as living all at one time, but admit this were true / that Lucius was King alone over all Brytaine: yet was he under the Roman deputy / and could attempt no change of Religion / specially the Romaine / and so universally as ys supposed / but with his allowance: the Brytaines having among them at that time / so valiant a Roman deputy called Albinus / of whom Seuerus then Emperor / stood him self in some awe / and durst attempt no wars abroad / before he had first joined in sure amity with him. For to have flamines was proper to the Roman religion: but Druids proper to the Brytaines. Which if at any time the Romans did put away / to establish their own flamines (which doth not yet appear by any history) yet that could they not do over all Britain according to Geffreis story / but only so far as their own province did extend. For over all Britain they were never Lord's: seeing that a Roman (which saith he wrote that he saw) writeth thus. Part off this Island, is a little less then half owres: which when Seuerus would wholly subdue, he entered into Calidonia. For a little before thes words / he maketh the Britain's consist of two kinds of people / whom be calleth Meatas / and Calidonios / and that the Romans had in their power / only the Meatas.

Again consider what was the life off the Britain's in the days of Seuerus the Emperor / who lived a little after that Lucius ys said King off Britain: and it will appear most plainly / that the Brytaines had not only no such show off a general / and open Christian church established among them / as setteth forth Geoffrey: but also that they were far from any little taste off Christ. For thus yt ys written off them. They live in tents naked, their wives are common, &c. Ys it like that a people that abuseth wines in common / had such a constituted form of a Christian church / as Geoffrey giveth to understand? or was there ever such barberousnes off going naked off men / and women / where the word off God was taught? which commandeth not only modesty / but semelynes. It is therefore rather true / which that old father Gildas / their own country man speaketh off them: the Britain's received the faith off Christ, even from the coming off Christ, and in the days off Tiberius the Emperor: but that was not publicly nor universally by authority off Prince / but off some few / and off those how? Of some Koldly, off some soundly. and how long? until the times off Dioclesian the Tyrant: which was after Lucius / at least 132. years.

But if we will narrowly exact this story of Geoffrey / yt will hardly fall owt / that Lucius himself became a Christian / according to his delivering off the sterie. For he saith yt came to pass by means off Eleutherius / woe was made bishop off Rome in the days of Commodus the Emperor / anno 180. and yet maketh Lucius to die an 156. so by that reckoning / Lucius became Christian after he was dead / at least xxiiij years. Further if we well marck / after what long blindness off time / this story cometh to light / and in what defect off any old / and good writer to keep the memory thereof: I dare warrant yow / yt will prove but a fable. The time when this is said to be doon / lacketh a good deal off 200. years after Christ: a thousand years after this we have no known writer / nether off our own / not foreign / that maketh any little report off this change off Archflaminrickes into archbishoprickes / until the time off Geoffrey: who was made bishop off S. Ass / in the day off Henry the second. And from whence fetcheth he this story? yt may be some will say / he had yt off the old Britain's / and was by him only turned into latin. but how likely is this to be true? when old Gildas dealeth thus plainly / in report off his own country monuments. The monuments of writers, if there were any, be ether burnt by fire of enemies: or by nauy of citisens exiled, carried far off, do not appear.

But if any man will say / perhaps this book of Geoffrey was one off those so carried away / and afterwards found he woteth not where / was brought home again: this besides it is off yt self but a conjecture / ys also plainly refuted by Geoffrey himself: who writeth story almost off 200. years after Gildas / and hath the bistorie off Bede in some places / even word for word. That I speak nothing off his untruth / and toto childish errors in many places / especially when he maketh report off any matter of ancient time: which might be some argument also / to draw from him opinion off antiquity. After that Geoffrey had once coiued this story / there lack no writers which also make mention thereof: but so as they make some change off his report. As Platina / who maketh but 25. flamines. and 3. Archflamines: belike moved by the Epistle off Gildas / who maketh the number of all the cities in Britain / to be but 28. although he allege for his autor Ptolomey. Thus far this autor: upon all which matter may appear / what folies they be which the D. auowcheth for truth / and wheruppon he hath laid the foundation off his archbishop.

Yow shall not be hable to show that the bishops which the Apostles planted were other, then which with thelders had the oversight of one particular congregation: and therefore your proofs are always by other things / as dowtefull as the question in hand. And if that were true / yet maketh it nothing for the archbishop. For what synewes are in this argument? The Apostles placed bishops in every city, therefore an Archbishop overseer off them in every province. After he saith / if by a pillar of Antechriste yow understand him or him: as if I had not sufficiently shown whō I mente. Who can patiently answer this wandering where the way is so plainly beaten? and this is his common practice to piece out his answer. Thirdly he saith / he may take reports off Antiquities from the papists: no man hindereth him. But if he will take their report in their own cause / and in a matter invented to advance the credit of the romishe seat / that whilst Peter is made the founder of Archbishops / and Patriarckes / the Pope his supposed successor / might have the stewardship off them / and they be the easilier holden in his obedience: if I say he will believe such stories / yt is to be feared leste it be the Lord's anger against him: whereby it is just that they should believe lies / which will not believe the truth. And if the sentet of the archbishop had so occupied his sense / that he hath not smelte this frawde of the papists / and the cause hereof: he might have learned it of Gratian / who carrieth this whole fable unto that ende.

Yow wipe not away the filthe off the times wherein Volusianus wrote / and him yow purge not: who (by that he is so deep in his mass) appeareth to have been defiled with it. And where yow say / yt is not like that he would write anything in that matter, which he had not certainly learned of worthy writers: I pray yow what worthier writers could there be in this behalf / then Denis bishop off Corinth / and Euseb? I am sure he could not fetch further then thes. So that from whom soever he took yt (if he received yt of any): yt is clear he received yt off those / which being further off the Apostles times / can have no credit herein / further thē they show forth the authors of their report. but to make reume for the archbishop / we must believe those things as certain / which nether are now / nor yet were thē extante whē Eusebius wrote / which gathered his story off writers before his time: and not only testimonies which never were / but whereof the bare names are not to be found. Whereas the manner of writers is / when they allege any thing that the former times had not spoken off / as at the finding of some great treasure / to note the means how that fell into their hands.

Against the authority alleged out off Eusebius / that Denys was bishop / is opposed that it is a negative argument of autorisie: which is an engine to wringe out off the churches hands / a singular means which all the writers of our times / use against the forgeries off the Papists. For when they reason against the forged Epistles / against Chrisostomes leytourgie / against the bastard writings of Augustine / &c. that there are things contained in them which no writer of that age wherein they are supposed to have writ / maketh mention off; the D. hath taught an easy answer / that yt is an evil argument off authority negatively / and that yt followeth not that there were no such things then / because they were not mentioned in their writings. Likewise when the bishop of Salis. made this challenge after performed / that yt could not be shown owt off any allowed writer 600. Yeares after Christ / that there was any mention off such / and such things maintained by popery: the Answ. hath with one word / wiped away the profit off all those travails. for yt may be answered / that such things were / although none made mention of them. The Papists in their defences have hard foreheads: but I think there is scarce found amongst thē / that would not blush at such an answer. Yet this is almost the salve for all sores / namely where I have shown / that in none of the writers within certain hundred years after Christ / which have filled their books with the mention of bishops / there is any the lease mention of an Archbishop. Againste which riot off answer oftentimes repeated / yt shall be sufficient once here to have spoken generally.

Now I come to that more proper to this place / that histories are not so curious in calling men by their several titles: because we use to call the bishops of Canturbery, and York, oftener by name of bishop then archbishop. But he should understand / that yt is one thing to speak after the common sort: and another to write to the approbation of the learned. And when there ys no kind of writing so narrowly bound to the observation of circumstances off place / time / person / as a story: yt must bring a great mist in it / to put no difference between a bishop / and an Archbishop: considering that that pertaineth to the policy off the church / whereunto they had regard. So that although he use some liberty off speech in other places: yet in this place yt was more insufferable / and that so continually / in Denys twice / in James / in the bishop of Rome / of Alexandria / &c. he might without reprehension have spoken so once / or twice: but him perpetually to call all Archbishops bishops / I think yow will hardly persuade any man off judgment. And if there had been any such titles allowed: yt would have appeared in the superscriptions off bishops to archbishops. At least the lower degrees off Deacons / and Elders would have acknowledged it / as both duty / and honest civility requireth: otherwise if the archbishops had been froward / they would not have red the letters. But not Eusebius only / Denys the Bishop / who wrote unto the church off Athens / so called him even in that place / where (if he could truly) he would have awakened those of Athens / with the honorable mention off Denis their former archbishop: and not have let pass that weight off authority / to have made his admonition more sounding.

Furthermore if Eusebius had spoken so improperly: he is yet to be charged with further confusion. For he assigneth him a parish / which is a territory belonging unto a simple bishop: and not a province / which is an archbishops kingdom. If therefore he confounded archbishop with bishop: at least he should have spoken dinstinetly off their charges. Last off all / how idle a pharisie this is off Denises archbishoprick / may be considered forasmuch as Euseb. in both places by me alleged / calleth him the first bishop off Athens. And that he was first in those partes may easily be seen / for that it was the wisdom of the holy ghost / to settle first the Gospel in the mother towns / and head places of dominion • : that from thence it might have passadge to places rownd about / as the practice in the Acts doth declare. Now if he were the first bishop chosen after the conversion of Athens: by the D. saying he was made Archbishop / before there were any other bishops to oversee. But forasmuch as the archbishop is in the number of those which hang of other / and that there could be no archbishop where there were no bishops / nor bishop where there were no churches rownd about: it is brought to pass / that there being no bishops in those partes / at that time when Saint Paul ordained Denys bishop: he can by no means be thought to have ordained him archbishop. And that which I have said in this point against the archbishoprick off Denis (the last only excepted) is to be understanded off James / Titus / Timothy / &c.

If a spade be but a spade / and a fig but a fig: then a bishop is but a bishop. Then also Erasmus saying (alleged pag. 405.) that Timothy was a bishop / and nowhere that he was an archbishop / affirmeth that he was but a bishop. Nether doth this make against, but for me. For if Erasmus speaking but of two / called one of them archbishop: is it like that Eusebius speaking of so many / supposed archbishops / called never one of them by their proper name? nether will I stick to confess / that Erasmus deceived with the corruption of times wherein he lived / spake as he thought: imagining Titus an Archbishop / as left in Creta an Isle / and Timothy a simple bishop / as left in one city. But it is good to observe by the way / how the Ans. building with one hand / overthroweth with the other. For let all men that have but a grain of salt / judge how likely it is / that Timothy was Archbishop: whē so many writers both old and new / yea some in those times that archbishops were / speaking of him: not one calleth him archbishop / but all bishop / as in his treatise may appear. but thus their tongues must be confounded / that build up Babylon. As for Titus whom Erasmus calleth archbishop / to make his authority of any weight / he must needs raise that title ether of some name given unto him in the scripture: or of some effect which he was known to excute / proper to an archbishop: or else off some ancient writer. But he could not raise it of any title the scripture giveth him / there being none such: nor off anything Titus did / forasmuch as there is nothing doon off him / which the Ans. affirmeth not to be common to every bishop / nothing prescribed to him / which was not prescribed to Timothy / whom Erasmus calleth simply bishop: nor off any ancient writer / there being none brought / nor as I am persuaded can be brought: therefore it is clear / that Erasmus calling Titus archbishop hath no weight: as one which spake according to the corruption off time / wherein he lived.

The rest of this diuis. is answered before: for the next / let yt be judged how yow have overthrown that alleged / touching Timothy / and Tite being Evangelists. I will also refer to the readers judgment / what vnlearnednes yt ys to confute authority by better authority: and in what place the D. will have us receive men's authority / when he will not have them controlled by other men. How by this means he that hath the first place to speak / may stop the mouth off all that follow: forasmuch as yt shall be unlawful for them / ether owt off the authors which the first speaker alleged / or any other / to oppose a contrary sentence. How also this being so unlearnedly doon off me / is notwithstanding learned in him: which hath used it diverse times. I leave also to be judged / how to the purpose he hath alleged thes examples off Justice, and chief Justice, seeing I helped him with this kind off division: and yt might have easily appeared that my argument was / that forsomuch as the Scoliast called them simply bishop: therefore yt could not be thought / that he esteemed them archbishops / which is opposite menber in this division. Last of all how absurdly ys it said / that he which calleth an archbishop a bishop / speaketh properly? Whē he that hath little more then learned his Grāmer / knoweth that it is a Trope / wherein the general is taken for the special: which is contrary to proper speech.

To the first reason / I have shown what might lead Erasmus / to cal Titus archbishop over Crete / and not Timothy over Ephesus. To the seconde / I am content that my reason off framing titles according to times, be nothing worth: if Erasmus in a matter off divinity / and having the veil off corrupt times to hinder his sight / could not be deceived: which erred in many things, and in those he saw was often more Cretian / thē Christian. The third (Erasmus did not give Titus a title according to the custom off that age wherein him self lived, for that there was then no bishop of Crete, • s there was of Rome when Vincentius lived) ys senseless. Consydering that my answer is apparent / that in speaking of Titus / he applied him self to the custom which had prevailed in all places / off calling the bishops off the metropolitan cities / archbishops: which this answer towchech not. Let him show one approved autor for the name of archbishop / or patriarch once only used in Eusebius time / or before / to note the superiority off one bishop over all his fellows / and we will all clap our hands unto him: if he cannot / then yt ys shame to say / those names were usual in Eusebius time. That Nicephorus spake no otherwise off Victor then yow have set down / yt is all one to me: which pourposed to show that he spake otherwise / then ether Eusebius / or the truth would suffer / having regard unto the times wherein he lived So that my untrue reports off authors, are such as they are no more beficiall to my cause / then if I had used their very words. For my answer made unto Volusianus / and Erasmus / that men use to speak / and to think for the moste parte of things past / by the measure off things present: if yt had no examples to warrant yt with / yet yt is so manifest / and sensible / that I durst barely leave yt to the conscience off all. and if the D. would give the rule of his tongue / but a little into the hand of his conscience: I doubt not but he would also confess yt? Howbeit we have a manifest example in the Centuries / which confessing there was no Metropolitan in Cyprians time / call him Metropolitan Another in Cornelius / whom M. Philpot calleth patriarch of Rome: whē all know that there was no patriarch many years after him. Last off all / when yt happened unto me to call Cyprian Metropolitan / which am an enemy to that estate (as I am also charged therewith by the D.) following therein the custom off the times which followed: how much more might that befall to others / which had no such combat with that office? That next containing vain excuses / to salve ether his ignorance / or his unfaithfulness / I have answered. His escape that James called bishop by Eusebius (to whom may be adjoined Jerome) yet might be Archbishop, I have confuted. The plenty off testimonies for the Archbishop, brought now / hideth not his poverty in his first boke. for all may know that this harvest cam in sithens. For the expositiō of Irenaeus / which interpreteh (they, everyone severally: if they severally ordained bishop everyone in his circuit / so it be understanded with the churches consent, as is before declared: I am well content.

If the error off my argument had been so gross, as your sight had perceived yt: I had been sure to have heard of yt. Whatsoever / and how many causes soever yow assign of appoincting an archbishop: yet this is a perfect division off the subject / that forsomuch as the Archbishopric (if any owght to be) must needs be both in some person / and place: not found by thapostels ordination which knew the best government / nether in that person / nor place both most fittest / and moste likest to receive yt: yt must follow that yt owght not to be. As for your exception off the time: first yt is your manner that yow might be thought to have store off answer / to make four off one. for whereas the time, and persons to be governed, the suppression off sects, and peace off the church▪ are put for several causes: yt ys manifest that one time maketh no difference off government from another / but in respect off the persons governed: nor the persons them selves / but in respect of their contentions / and alteracion of disposition. Then it shall appear after / that the times off persecution such as those) were the fittest for that office: if that had been convenient.

This Archbishop said to be the officer off order / confoundeth all order / and changeth all: an Evangelist into a bishop / a bishop into an Archbishop / an archbishop into an Apostle / an Apostle into an Archbishop which folies are before confuted. If S. John were Archbishop / or did an Archbishops office in those places / where he abode: then the other Apostle. in their circuites did the like / and were likewise Archbishops over them / and the bishop there. so it followeth that ether there were no Archbishops in the Apostles times: or if there were any / they had nothing to do / their offices being not yet fallen / but in the Apostles hands. And if the Ans. will needs have S. John's antoritie / the pose to measure owt the Archbishops authority yt must follow that forasmuch as he had the care / and ouersighte of all churches in the world: the Archbishop must have the same. For the next section / lett the reader judge / whether I have delte sincerely: and whether in saying Anaclete, and Anicete are but suspected, although he ad (not without just cause) he leave to them some credit. For the next also (of the year wherein the Nicene council was holden) being not to purpose / although I could maintain the account I followed / I will leave the Ans. in his earnest disputation: whose practice is to handle trifles earnestly / and earnest things triflingly

The leap is as great as I have said / and consequently as dangerous to the archbishops neck. For yt falleth still forth / that for the space off 300. years from the time off the Apostles / there is no syllable in any one approved autor / off any ether archbishop / or Metropolitan. for as for the Canons attributed unto the Apostles (those only excepted which are to be found in their writings) being as is agreed amongst men off any judgment / gathered off diverse councils in sundry times: that which is here alleged off the Ans. was by all likelihood drawn owt off the council off Antioch / having almost the very words thereof saving as yt cometh to pas / yt being somewhat later / is somewhat worse. The council of Antioch / a good while after that of Nice / cannot make the fall off the archbishop les dangerous. As for the fable off Archbishops in England in Euleutherius time / yt is before confuted. So that if a Metropolitan were all one with an Archbishop: yet he is destitute of the testimony off the purest / and best times. Where the D. thinketh those words off the council off Nice (Let the ancient custom be kept) will save his neck, and his body from harm: he is deceived. For this word ancient / being in number off those / which have relation / and depend of others: signifieth a greater / or smaller time according to the things wherewith it is compared / or hath relatiō unto. so that that may be / and often is called ancient / which is but of very few years: and which other sometime cannot be so called / without a greater number. The bishops therefore comparing that decree / with other made at that time / and not before / called that an ancient custom.

And yt can be no strange kind off speech for the ministers being assembled together / to speak off a matter continued a score off provincial Synods / and holden in the space off 10. years / after this sort: In such and such things, we will keep our old custom. And that yt could not be long before the council off Nice beside no testimony to the contrary ▪ Aeneas Sy • uius giveth this for us: before the Nicene council every bishop lived unto himself, and small regard was had to the bishops of home. But admit yt had been so before the council off Nice / 20. yea 30. years yet by your own count / there is no mention off him all that time which I have affirmed / which is 300. years after our Savior Christ's ascension. Now therefore that the auncientie off the Metropolitan / appeareth not by this council to be other / then I alleged: Let us see what credit yt ought to have to prove that this decree off theirs was good. For thereunto the D. regardeth when he saith / the notable, and famous council off Nice, must be off all wise, and learned men next unto the scriptures reverenced, &c. It is sure that having regard to the decision off the different / touching the perfect unity off substance / of our Savior Christ with God the Father / it giving sentence upon the infallible word off God / is worthy to be reverenced. But if the D. will have their soundness in that point / autorise the rest / and that our reverence to yt should close up our mouths / from demanding from whence the other canons come / what ground they have: yt is that which we can by no means consent unto.

And that yt may appear how justly we call this canon off the council / unto the touch stone of the word off God / let it be considered what is ordained off them in the 12. and 23. Canons after Ruffin: where they prescribe seven years unto one fallen in. to Idolatry / all which time (although very repentante) they forbid him the supper off the lord: where also yt keepeth out one which coming from the war retourneth thither again / by the space off thirtene years / &c. which severity (to let pas the rest) as yt is against the rule of S. Paul: so yt could not but put a halter in the deuiles hand / to snare a noneber of souls with all. what corruption there was further at that time / ether by ignorance / or ambition / may appear by that if one Paphenutius had not been: they had all concluded against the honorable society off bishops / elders / and Deacons with their lawful wives. If the Ans. say / thes errors were but the errors off those bishops only / but the canon off a Metropolitan hath beside their allowance / the approbation off the former times also / so that although their single authority be not hable to way yt down / yet helped with the ancient custom before / yt will carry yt away: I answer that in the same council appeareth / that to those chosen unto the ministry unmarried / yt was not lawful to take any wife afterwards: only being married before entrance into the ministry / it was lawful for them to use the benefit of that mariadge. And Paphenutius showeth / that not only this was before that council: but was an ancient tradition of the church / which both him self / and the rest off the council rested in. whatsoever credit therefore in any respect / cometh unto the Metropolitan by this sixth canō: the same in every: point cometh to this so great a corruptiō / that nether single ministers might mary / nor those which entered married / might after death of their wives mary again If the fame of the council cannot wipe away the infamy of this: nether can it of that: and if the ancient traditiō of the church / do not autorise the one: nether can ancient custom / autorise the other.

The Ans. before / for one only error touching rebaptising / casteth away the whole council of Carthage: I will not deal so rowghly with the council off Nice only I desire that their authority be lifted up no higher / then yt hath state off the word off God. Howbeit it must not be let goo in this canon off Nice (which is the overthrow of all that the Ans hath said before) that saying this was old custom, it confesseth thereby that it was no ordinance of God whereas if it came from S. Peter / Paul / &c. they would have said according to the institution off the Apostles. it is also worthy to be observed / that the jurisdiction the Metrapolitanes had in their provinces / was before only voluntary / and vncōstrained: for that this was the first time / that any law passed of yt: which noted off me in another place / is here well confirmed. so that thes words the old custom, which the D. putteth so great affaince in / if he make his accōpts well / shall be found to have been a reed of Egypt unto him: whereupon he leaning / is not stayed but pricked.

To prove that the name off archbishop was not before the council off Nice / nor within three hundred years after the ascension off our Savior / I show that there is no mention off him in Theophilus / Ignatius / Clemens Alexandrinus / Justin / Martyr / Irenaeus / Tertullian / Origin / Cyprian / in the histories owt off which Eusebius gathereth his story / nor in Eusebius / nor (in a word) in no allowed writer / nether Greek nor latin / within that space. The D. asketh whether the council off Nice, Antioch, Epiphanius, &c. be not as good? all which are both later writers then those I alleged: and after the 300. years before assigned. So that to prove the antiquity off the name off Archbishop / and Metropolitan / he saith in effect / yt is all one to allege the stories / and writers which came after / as those which went before: and to prove that thes names were with in 300. years after Christ / he alledgeth stories / and other writers which testyfie thes titles to have been after 300. years: which how absurd yt ys / all men understand. And what likelihood off truth yt hath / that thes names were within 300. years / and od / when as not one only writer having so often occasion to speak off them / doth once name them: it may be considered partly of that the bishop writeth. For as he asked Harding / was there no man in the world for the space off 600. years, hable to express the name off universal bishop: So I ask the D. was there none in the world by the space off 300. years / and od / hable to express the metrapolitans name? no man for the space almost of 400. years / hable to express the archbishops name? partly also I leave yt to be considered / off that I have said before.

Then he must understand / that as those stories / and writers he alledgeth / make nothing to prove that antiquity which he supposeth: so they being further from the Apostles times / and nearer unto the time off Antichrist / are not off so good credit / to prove the lawfullnes off that ether office / or name / as if they had had testimony of the purer times. moreover off thes six authors which he maketh mention off / two wroote after 400. years: all the rest wrote from about 350. years / unto the prick off 400. And although he hath brought owt so small a number: yet he must be fain to cut off half off them / as those which make no mention off the archbishop. for nether Chrysostom / nor Jerome / no not Ambrose (as shall appear) in their so great works / make any mention off him. Where I shown that as the ced •• off Liban cannot be hidden amongst the Box trees, so the archbishop could not have been hidden in the ancient writings amongst the other Mynisters: and further / that if he were, he was contemned off them, which once would not defile their pen by writing off him: the Answ. as though thes pertained not to the matter / under color of calling them frumpes, passeth by them whereas a few such frumpes will break the archbishops back / if they be not better looked unto.

The Ans. can never be holden in the rails off any lawful form off disputation. All men see that whatsoever he heapeth up / toucheth not my reply. For he owght to improve the signification which I have set down / off the word Metrapolitan bishop: which is, to be nothing else then bishop of that city, which yt pleaseth the Emperor, or Prince to make chief: and therefore that • f the office swell no more then the name / there is great difference between his / and the archbishops name. This because he could not do / the signification being so clear: he starteth a side / and goeth about to prove / that Metropolitan and Archbishop are taken for the same. when the question is not here how they are taken / but what the words signify. If he had shown that the word metropolitan bishop / is as lofty in signification / as the word archbishop: then he had spoken to the purpose. Beside this / in a matter that is in controversy amongst writers / he maketh his profess by bare authorities: the controversy being not only between the Ciuili •• s, and Canonistes, but also between others off our time.

Likewise it is to be observed / how evil he hath peeced thes together / bringing in M Calvin contrary unto Master Fox / in that the one maketh a Metropolitan / and Archbishop to differ from a Patriarck / the other maketh them all one. M. Fox also to differ from himself: which in the second place alleged out off him / maketh difference between a metropolitan / and primate: in the third / maketh them all one. Beside that also he is beside the forowgh off his cause / he gaineth not that which he goeth abowght. For let us admit that a metropolitan / and Archbishop are taken for the same: yet thereof followeth not / that the name off an archbishop was in the church as soon as the name of Metropolitan. For although a Prophet / and a seer be all one / astranger / and an enemy in war betokened one thing: yet nether have the words the same signification / nether were they all at one time / but came one after another. For I would gladly know whether yt seem unto him / that all thes titles Metropolitan / Archbishop / Primat / and Patriarch / came in at a clap. if there be no likehoode in this: yt followeth that his authors meaning is not / that thes names were all at the council off Nice: but after they crept into the church / were attributed unto one / and the same office off metrapolitanship / specified in that council. For the authority over other bishops / which is gone about by this Nicene council / to be proved like to that of our archbishops: that I make not with the Answ. a confusion off all / I will (God willing) show in place / how the Nicene / and Antiochen Metropolitan / have beside the name / almost nothing in common with our Archbishops.

Here will be no confession: yt was not enough for the Answ. before to allege thes forged canons without correction / yea with commendation: but even now also detected / rather then he will yield to the truth / the commē enemy must have the advantage. He will not forsooth greatly stick in the defense of thes canons: then he will not give them quite over. There is no small controversy (he saith) about the number of canons of this council: and a little after / there is great difference in writers for the number of the canons. Let him name one (Papists excepted) that ever moved controversy about this number of 70 and 80. canons which he talketh off. Athanasius in an Epistle that he as some think writeth, &c. what some are those? Pighius / Hosius / Harding / and their likes / and they do but say yt: for that they did think so / there being nether color / nor shadow off truth in that so kold a devise / yt is hardly to be thought. He saith after / he hath done nothing strange in alleging thes canons. I grant: for he hath those spoken of before / to keep him company. And in the next diui. to make up the matter / he alleged not those canons as the vndowbted canons of the council off Nice, but as probable. Is it in deed probable / that there was such filthe in the church / in the time of the Nicene council / as those canons you alleged make mention of?

The reasons whereby he would bring some credit unto thes canons / are to light. For where he reckoneth up certain things found in other writers / not contained in those canons: he should have known that there might be other things handled in that council / which were not brought into canons. For example / that which he reciteth out off Ambrose / touching the second marriage off the clerckes, was talked on in the council / as I have shown before: but yet there was no canon made off yt / as may appear by the stories before alleged. For yt was brought in / not as a thing whereof they would consult: but alleged as a reason by Paphnutius / to bar that which they would otherwise have decreed. As for the council off Arles: yt speaketh not off the council off Nice / but only off a great Synod: and to restreigne that to that council / is but a frierly note / which the gatherer off the councils maketh / to get some credit to those 70. canons / which the Ans. would thrust upon us. There were things alleged in the council / which those nigh the times wherein yt was holden / might come to the knowledge off by report off those present at the council: which make nothing for proof off a greater number off canons▪ For it is not like that the Canons of the Nicene council / whereof every Bishop through the world (as the Bishop off Salisbury proveth) had a copy / were lost. And if there were such a number as he would have us believe: yet when the ancient writers which follow so nere the council / or lived in that time / could not come to the knowledge off them: ys it like that this upstart / not led with any desire off search off antiquity / but as appeareth with a deuelishe appetite of advancing the seat off Antechriste / should discover such a hoard of Canons? But if this new recorder seem unto you to have brought the other canons to light: then belike he hath those yow cite owt off the Council off Arles / off Jerome / and Ambrose. if not (wherein I refer the reader unto the Canons / not having the book:) then yt might have been argument / that those canons came not owt of any store house off learned monuments / but owt of his one forge.

Yow say yow agree with the bishop off Salisbury in his reply against Harding touching the canon he alledgeth. The truth is that you have done the best yow can / to ouerthrowt the whole defense off the bishop in that behalf: which standeth in proof that those be counter faicte / and that there were no other canons off the Nicene council / then are commonly extant. And where yow say / Hardinges canon must needs be counterfaict, because yt is contrary to the canons off that council, but that which you have alleged, and in those points which you have alleged them, to be of the same substance the. 6. and 7. first those new canons being off one litter / if you give credit to one / yow cannot take yt away altogether from the rest. Secondly all those canons which are not contrary to anything determined in the council off Nice / have by this answer gotten that credit / which the authority / and name of the Nicene council can give them. So that a number off wicked things which the Council off Nice spake not against / contained within thes canons / are commenced by the Ans. for decrees off the great Nicene Council / which were long after decreed in the Popes kitchen.

Thirdly where he saith the: 25. 26. 27. differ from the 6. and 7. but in number, and not in substance: beside that he taketh still for granted which he should prove / he imagineth all those learned fathers of that Council / des ••• ute of judgment / and common sense: which in setting down one / and the self same canon four times / might worthily have been esteemed as bablyng dyuines / as Bat • us a Pocte. And if the Council had been so grossly ouerseen: yet how cometh yt to pass / that that escaped the abridgers? Which are said for shortness sake / to have brought the 80, Canons into 70. Last of all / to make this answer good / the reader must believe / 〈◊〉 only that some of thes canons which this forger hath added be true / and some false: but (for as much as in the Canons alleged / the D. now seeth that all in them contained / cannot befathered of the Nicene council) that in the same canon / one piece is trwly / and another falsely fathered. As if we should not only not take thē for bretheren / which were begotten of one father: but in one / and the same child / to esteem that the head / and the foot is base / and the arms / and legs with the rest off the body / begotten in lawful matrimony. Thus yt cometh to pass / that as the deformity off the visadge is not helped / but made worse by peinting so the D. fault / which might have had some excuse in that he was abused / by this vain defense is inexcusable. Where upon I will leave to the reader (which followeth in the next diuisi.) whether upon light credit unto some dissembling papists, he received thes things without examination: and whether in avoiding that / he maketh him self guilty off a greater fault.

Where have I refused ambrose for an historical witness? pertaineth this to the story / whether an Archbishop be profitable for the church / or no? whether he were or no / pertaineth: but whether meet / or unmeet / is without the bounds off story. Yow had set down that Ambrose allowed of an Archbishop: provoked by me / you cannot show off his allowance. And yet because yow put me in remembrance off the story witness / whē I considered that nether the rest of his writings / nor other writers off the same auncientie / and quarters / as Jerome / and Augustine / mention an Archbishop: yt made me suspecte greatly / that there was corruption in that place. After seeing howe proudly / and swellingly he speaketh off bishops / and howe basely off kings / saying the bishops are gold, and kings in comparison off them but lead, and kings must put their nekes under the knees of the bishops, and kiss their right hand (which speeches are • a • unlike Ambrose style of kings): considering also that Erasm. nippeth that book in the head / I assure myself that yt is a false Ambrose / and therefore that testimony to be of no force. Wherein I am yet further confirmed by Ambrose own testimony / who saying it is comely, that there should be equality in the churches: which taketh away bishops dominion. For seeing that cannot be understanded off the whole company of the church: yt is manifest that it must be restrained unto the ministers thereof. and saving this advantage / I answer to the next diuis. that yt shall appear after how strange the name off the Archbishop was at that time.

For that alleged out off the Centuries / Ambrose was Metropolitan off diverse churches joined together: besides that yow take that for granted which is in controversy / that is to say that the name of Metropolitan / and Archbishop be all one: yow ought to have shown the reasons whereby they say so. For seeing they have not that they wrote by revelation: in a matter of controversy they ought no further to be believed / then they show reason. Otherwise I can oppose also authority which saith in plain words / Ambrose was a bishop not of a whole province, or of many cities, but off one only city. whose testomony yet is so much more off credyt / then that off the Centuries / as by a nearer sight into Ambrose. works which he reuewed / he was better able to give judgment in this matter: then they which occupied in reading off so many / could not perform that diligente in all / which he in that autor he especially labored in.

That I said of the Archbishop (if any were) ruling the action wherein the bishops were ordained / and after the action ended having no more authority thē the rest / is vnconfuted / by any writer yow allege. Calvin (the ignorance of whose writings, with all otther, yow object unto me) doth not only not speak against yt: but saith in some respect more then I. For I speak this only of the Archbishop / alleged owt of the counterfaict Ambrose: but he (as I have shown) saith generally of those ancient times / that the office off the Archbishop was rarely used. And that I said not (as yow use) withow reason: but with those reasons which yow lifting at / cannot move. For where I shown yt not hke that one Archbishop ordained bishops / but other bishops with him / whose voices he gathered / the ancient councils expressly forbidding that: yow say yow shown yt not strange at that time, for a bishop alone to ordain ministers. Which thing howe untrue yt is / I refer myself to that before said. And if yow had shown yt: yet yow making difference between a minister / and a bishop / in proving that one bishop only ordained ministers / have not proved that one bishop ordained bishops. And in saying that Ambrose is to be understanded, of that done by all bishops in all places: yow make them all gilty off breach off canons off the general councils in that behalf. Which how untrue yt is / may likewise appear by that before said. Then how vain is yt / that for that the people had to do in the bishops election, one bishop alone without other his fellows, did ordain? After he asketh. Where is now my distinction of election, and ordination. Firste I declared that they being for the moste parte distinguished / are sometime taken for one. Secondly I have uttered no word whereby it is once touched. Thirdly if I had taken yt away: yet: he same toucheth not this matter / as he saith / but nether showeth / nor can show how. only having nothing to answer / he speaketh in the clouds: where he is so far from being understood of others / that I think he understood not him self.

His answer (Ambrose mente not off the Archbishop in the province where him self was bishop) is first upholden by flat begging of diverse things in controversy: as whether an archbishop / and metrapolitan be all one / whether Ambrose were metropolitan / and whether being / he had authority him self to forbid such disorders. Secondly that he alledgeth to remove yt from Ambroses province / maketh rather against him. For if that corruption he complained of / were in all places: then it was in his province also: Where he saith I am deceived, that I think he wrote his book for his own diocese only: my words import no such thing. yt is enough for me if in the province where he was / this corruptiō had place: the further he will strech those words / the depelier he woundeth the government off the archbishop. But this is more then duty / unto that counterfaicte Ambrose.

What truth this devise hath / I am content yt be judged of the reasons before alleged. my quotacion off the Centuries, was easy to find? if yow had not help of the table / the time yt self would quickly have directed yow. yt is in the begin̄ing of the chapter which yow alleged / so that if yow had red anymore then served for your tourne: yow should have found how he affirming / that in those days there were but three principal degrees off the • lergie / bishop / elder / and deacon: alledgeth for proof Ambrose. The name off Archbishop out off Sozomen. maketh not against this. considering that he writing about the year 430. calleth Simeon Archbishop / according to the time wherein he wrote / and not wherein Simion lived. Nether doth the place off Epiphanius (alleged after out of the Centuries) make against this. For albeit the name of Archbishop was in his time / which lived ether in Ambroses time / or somewhat before: yet there is no likelihood that it was then received in the latin churches / seeing none off their writers of those times / once make mention off that name. And it is certain that it being a Greek name / was first received in the Greek churches / and Easte partes / or ever it came into the latin / and weaste.

Now for this great show the A. bringeth into the stage / they are scarce worth the looking on: they shall have therefore a short answer. their authority shall be considered after / being here altogether out off place / and contrary to the little off his chapter / and (according to the old custom off repetitions) propounded after: I here therefore deal only with the names. And first for that off Metrapolitan: yt is shown that it is not the same in signification with the Archbishops: yt is confessed that it was in the time off the council off Nice / before which yt cannot be shown / in any allowed writer. for where the D. citeth the Centuries / which call Cyprian which was before it / Metrapolitan: they do so call him according to the custom of times which followed / as is before proved owt off their own testimony. As for the name of Primat / the first tidings of it is a great while after 400. years: which is without our cōpas. for the name off an Archbishop / the first mention alleged off him in any council / is nere upon 500. years.

Where yt is said / the name of an Archbishop is attributed unto Athanasius: he should have told who doth attribute that name / and then he had had his answer. For nether in his works / nor in any ancient writer that speaketh of him / is it found. Indeed a Lou • nist doth so call him: but he hath no credit in this cause. Where he alledgeth that the name of Archbishop is found in the 2. Apology of Athanasius: if he show▪ Athanasius him self speaking so in his own language / I believe him: if he cannot / he must change his style / and in steed off Athanasius / say the translator off Athanasius. And beside that the Emperor set one John a Miletian / ether heretic / or schismatic to be more then quarter master with him: if yt be true that he hath so earnestly disputed before / that an archbishop, and Metrapolitan be all one, Alexandria being the metrapolitan city only / and the bishop thereof the only metrapolitan: yt must needs fall owt / that where this other Archbishop is supposed off the D. to have been / there could be no archbishop / and consequently that that is the translators fault.

There remaineth only Epiphanius, the first off ancient writers that gave this name place in his writings. I am content therefore let this be the first flight off that name in to the church: which being about the year off our Lord 389. at what time Ephanius flourished / near upon 400. years: yt is apparent that both the Ans. ys greatly ouershot / which would make us believe this name to have been from the times of the Apostles: and that I kept myself within my bounds / in saying the name off Archbishop cannot be shown in any allowed writer, by the space off 300 years after Christ. As for that he would prove yt to have been in Peter the bishop of Alexandrias time, which was before the Nicene cocell, because Epiph. doth call him Archbishop: yt hath been often answered / that that title was not of the Person / but of the times wherein Epiphanius wrote. For when the writers before him / and those in Peters time / speaking off Peter call him bishop always / and not archbishop / and not him only / but Achilles / Alexander / and Athanasius / which succeeded him: ys there any man of so smail judgment / as not to understand that this alteracion off title / came off the alteracion off times? So we see that off all the testimonies the Answ. hath mustered / there is not one that hath stricken one stroke / in the quarrel off that antiquity off the name off Archbishop.

The two next sections / I leave to the Judgment off the reader: saving that besides the vanity off thexcuse of Basils poverty / joined with untruth / considering that Basil had not been so small a while bishop in one place / and other / but he might have gotten some wull on his thread bear gown / if the fleese off his Archbishopric had hand yt: yt shall appear (God willing) that as this poverty accompanied the bishops in perfequution: so the ordenary of all godly bishops off those times / and long after / which lived in great peace / was as far from this lordly estate / as the honest frugality off diverse ministers with us / is from the riotous porte off a bishop. As for my narrow search off a comma, whereof he speaketh his pleasure: he might know that althowge a comma be but a little prick: yet yt often maketh a great matter. The greatness off the metrapolitanship of Basil over Capadocia, was scarce a plowghe land in comparison off that which yow imagine. I for there were at the least two Metrapolitanships in Capadocia: one in Caesaria / where Selladius which succeeded Basil was bishop / another in Nissa / where Gregory Basils brother was. Beside that / if it were true yow say after / that Pontus pertained unto the Bishop of Constantinople: Capadocia being in yt / Basil was his underling / and therefore no cause why he should be called so great a metrapolitan, as yow pretend.

Here destitute off all defense / he flieth from the cause unto by matters / partly vain / and partly false: which I will void in as few words as I cā / before I come to the point off the cause. Where he saith Simeon the archbishop was a bowte the council off Nice, and therefore no cause to accuse those times, more then the former examples, and for proof alledgeth that he was martyred by Sapore: if yt he true that is written / Sapores beginning his reign about the year of the lord 310. and reigning 70. years / yt might be well for anything yet alleged / that he was martyred about the year 380 and if we follow his account / yet yt is answered. Where he saith I declare my unskillfulness, in saying the bishop of Constantinople challenged not the preeminence over all: let yt be noted that the hunger he hath to reprehend my unskillfulness / presseth him so violently / that feeding one yt so gredyly / he hath not so soon swallowed / as he is compelled to regorge / and lay them up again. For in the next sentence reprehending me as if I had said / that the bishop off Constantinople challenged the title off universal Patriarch in the council off Calcedon / he plainly affirmeth he did not challenge yt: yet I say not that he challenged that name / but only that he might ordain bishops off Asia, &c. Where he would prove my unskillfulness, because Pelagius / and Gregory Bishops off Rome / write against the Bishop off Constantinople for that cause: in deed so he may easily find him self talk / if when I speak of the bishop of Constantinople which was in the time off the Calcedon Council / he talk off the Bishop off Connstantinople more then 100. year after. Whether this be ether to trifle / or not to know thes things the knowledge whereof he so often challengeth / let the reader judge. Again he saith / the name off universal bishop, was offered unto the bishop off Rome in the council off Calcedon, and notwithstanding saith / yt was first given unto the bishop of Constantinople in the Council of Constantinople, being long after: Which are things unlikely. For he making the Bishop of Rome / to begin his claim to that title / so longe before: yt is not to be thought / that being then offered him / he would refuse yt. Which if yt were true / the bishop of Constant. could not be the first that had that title given him / in the Council of Constant. long after.

But your lodes man here as in other places / hath seduced yow. For this was taken owt off Pighius / and objected off Harding against the bishop off Salisbury: unto whom alleging for the proof thereof the Epistles off Pope Gregory / the bishop answereth / he could not refuse that which was never offered him. And the truth is / that not only there is no such offer to be found in that Council / but things plainly repugnant. For yt saith expressly / the bishop off Constantinople shall have equal preuiledges with Rome. And the same Council giveth the same honor throughout unto the bishop off Constantinople / which yt gave the bishop off Rome: saving that because yt was the first seat off the Empire / yt is content that yt shall have the first place. The same also may appear by the second provincial Council off Constantinople / where this is repeated owt off the Calcedon Council. Now seeing this council made the Bishop of Constantinople equal in privileges / and honor with the Bishop off Rome: yt must needs be a mere fable off Pope Gregory / the Papists / and our D. that this Council offered unto the Bishop off Constantinople / the title off universal Bishop. Thus with my unskillfulness, I am constrained to make up the gap / the D. layeth open unto the Papists.

Where he saith Constantinople required nothing, but according to the 6. canon off the Council of Nice: he greatly erreth. For first the privileges of the church of Antioch / in that council were clean dashed / and the whole state off the church being divided into the rule off four / that is the bishop off Rome / Constantinople / Alexandria / and Jerusalem: the churches were brought into miserable servitude / which may appear by the Council off Constantinople: which decreeing this afterward / autoriseth the canon off that matter / by the council off Calcedon. Secondly whereas the Council of Nice reserved to every province her privileges / and honor whereof this was parte (as appeareth by other decrees) that the bishops of every province should choose their metropolitan: he off Constantinople toke a way thes privileges / from the greatest parte off the churches throw owght the whole world: considering that he had by this council / th appointing of the Metrapolitans off parte of Europe / and of all Asia / saving a little corner wherein they had pinned up the bishop off Jerusalem. Thirdly yt is clear / that not only at the time of the Nicene Council he had no such large dominion: but his Jurisdiction long after / was shut up within the bands off Thracia only / without having anything to do ether in Pontus / or Asia: as appeareth clearly both by Socrates / and by a former council off Constantinople. Thus may the Answ. great skill / for the show whereof he hath thus ranged from the cause / easily appear.

Now let yt be considered what is answered unto the argument / whereby upon the words of the council off Carthage (the bishop of the first seat, should not be called the chief off the Preistes, or the high preiste, or any such thing) I concluded the title off the Archhishop forbidden. He saith that was made against the bishop off Rome, and the meaning off that Council was, that no bishop should be called by the name off universal bishop: which is first directly against that he hath said before / off the title off the universal bishop / offered in the Council off Calcedon unto the bishop of Rome. For if Rome desired not that title / yea refused it offered: then there was no such cause off the decree off the African Councils / to bridle it in the title off universal bishop. Secondly this exposition bringeth manifest force to the councils words. For if the name of an Archbishop be not sufficiently forbidden / by thes words (Prince off the priests) which in the councils language confounding preiste / and bishop / is all one with the name off an Archbishop: yet it is forbidden by those words which follow / no bishop shall be called by any such name. And if that be not sufficient / 10 stop the way against such trifling cavils as thes: yet the words that follow (he shall only be called the bishop of the first seat) are so plain that he must have a very hard forehead / that will go about to owtface them.

Moreover Gratian addeth as a parte off this canon: but universal bishop, let not the bishop off Rome himself be called. Whereby is manifest how vain the D. shift is. For unless he had in the former words / mente all other bishops: there can be no place for thes / no not the bishop off Rome. and unless the council had meant some other thing then universal bishop / by thes words chief preiste: there is no place for thes / universal bishop. For if we should follow the D. exposition / we should make the council speak after this sort: the bishop off Rome shall not be called universal bishop: but universal bishop, no not the bishop off Rome him self shall be called. Which when yt ys absurd / we must needee hold that this Council provided / not only against the ambitiō of the bishop off Rome / but off all other: and not against the puff of the name / of universal bishop only / but against the smokeie title off Archbishop / Patriarch / &c.

Furthermore / in another council which confirmeth the canons off this / it appeareth plainly / that that canon was made especially for the African churches / for the provinces off Numidia / Mauritania / and Tripolis. For Aurelius / and Musonius presidents off that Council / in their Epistle to the Bishop off those provinces / charge them that they had not kept those canons: and show how some covered them selves by ignorance off them. And not only the council off Carthage / holden somewhat more then 400. years after Christ / forbiddeth thes lofty titles: but the council off Carthage whereat Cyprian was / within 200. and od years after Christ / is found off the same judgment with this / that no bishop should be called bishop of bishops So that to avoid this argument / the Answ. must be compelled to say / that the bishop of Rome claimed the title off universal bishop / within about 200. and 50. years after Christ: which although he dare much / I think he dare not answer. Again / he may understand that he hath the bishop for party. For he alleging owt off Origin / that the ministers in the very time off persecution whileste he lived / passed the owtrage off worldly Princes: addeth that for that cause / this canon of the Council of Carthage which I have set down / was made. Gyuing plainly to understand / that it was to kill the yche off ambition in the whole order off ministry: not as he beareth us in hand / only in respect off one person. And if there be any credit to be given unto Gregory / there were nigh 600. years at the lease run owt / or ever the bishop there / made claim unto this title. For he saith / no bishop off Rome until his time, had taken to himself that title off singularity, or would ever consent to be called by so profane a name, off universal bishop.

Now let us see his reasons. The first is / Celestinus bishop of Rome, claimed the hearing of matters in the African churches, as appeareth by the African Council But how doth he not see that the Council off Carthage / the Canon whereof I alleged / was before that council? His answer therefore is / that the Council off Carthage by way off Propheceye / decreed against the ambition off Celestinus / not then bishop. And although this be absurd / yet that which followeth is yet more: that this canon should be to provide against the ambition of the bishop of Constantinople, which challenged the name off universal bishop / about two hundred years after this canon made. To understand faults so particularly / and provide remedies so especial against them before they be / requireth a higher watch tower / then any council off bishops could ever clyme into. And as for the African council / nether in the words alleged by the D. nor any other off that Council doth it appear / that the Bishop off Rome claimed the title off universal bishop. But as Julius bishop off Rome had doon at the Council off Antioch / he owtreached in claiming the hearing off causes / which pertained not unto him. In which respect the Council made a special chapter / that whosoever should appeal beyond the seas / should not be received into communion off any in Africa. Which chapter is not the 6. but 92. nether is it off titles, and names, but off jurisdiction.

Where he saith / there were as haughty names in those times, as off Primat, and for proof provoketh unto the greek copy off that Council off Carthage: there is no advantage in the Greek copy / which only maketh mention off one first amongst the bishops: and he is greatly deceived if he think / that to be first bishop / is as much as to be Prince off Bishops. For the Bishop off Rome in respect of the three other Patrigrckes / was first: yet not their Archbishop / but only had the first place in their meetings. Especially seeing the Council doth flatly forbid / that the first bishop amongst them should be called by that name / but only bishop off the first seat. For that owt of master Fox / that thes names Archbishop, &c. are not forbidden by this canon: I refer the reader to his own works / with this remembrance that I have shown in the former book / how Master Fox counteth thes degrees ambitious. As for the name high priest owt of Ignatius: if need were it may be shown both by reasons / and authority / that he is not off that auncientie the D. supposeth. Beside that he giveth it not to any one especially / but to all a like.

Affording yow four witnesses, I allowed yow one to many / two off them being counterfaicte. And if he will have parte off those decrees lawful / and parte bastard: he must show that this was off Samasus / owt off some other then off this forger. Whether off thes true bishops was first / maketh nothing to this question: yt is certain those yow have alleged / are counterfaictes. But because Jerome which lived in the true Samasus time / maketh mention off an archdeacon / let yt be granted to the D. which he desireth: doth he think that Damasus mouth was so holy / that with once naming an Archdeacon / he could sanctify the office forever? yes for he was a virtuous, learned, and godly bishop. But I have shown that amongst men / the best ground beareth th • sseis. Yea what if the D. praise / whereof he is so liberal when yt serveth his tourne / be to high / and it be found that he was not so godly as he pretendeth? what if although the tyranny were not so great / as in his counterfaicre Damasus time / yet this Damasus off whom he would father tharchdeacon / spake in the Dragons voice: when he shameth not to write that the bishop off Rome's sentence was above all other / to be attended for in a Synod? whereby still appeareth how dangerous yt ys / to fetch example off government from those times.

To that I alleged off the names off Acoluthes / and Subdeacons / &c. ancient / and yet not convenient: he answereth / peradventure they were profitable. So the profit off tharchdeacon being yet upon the die / and in doubt: we must notwithstanding have him thrust upon us. To that off Monks auncienter then thardeacon / he answereth nothing: but that yt followeth not if they were unlawful, that tharchdeacon is so. but yt followeth well that if the monk / with others are antichristian / notwithstanding their auncientie: that yt is an evil proof yow use / that the archdeacons &c. are not Antichristian / because they were ancient: wherein stand all your proofs. Whereas he saith / his purpose was only to show the antiquity of thes names, and therefore I do him wrong, which require he should have brought the approbation of thes authors touching them: both he hath undertaken to prove / that thes names are not against the word / and after he concludeth upon thes restimonies / that thes names are not only ancient, but allowed off the best, eldeste, worthieste writers, and councils. So appeareth that my accusatiō is just / and that he toke upon him to great a bourden. As for the auncientie off the name Archdeacon / yt is not shown before almost 400. years after Christ: which times howe corrupt they were / hath in parte / and will after more appear.

Can there be plainer words to prove that the Archdeacon was no minister / then those whereby Sozomene putteth difference between an Archdeacon / and an elder / making them several members? And where he saith / by that reaso • the Archdeacon should be no deacon, nor the bishop no preiste, considering that thes are there likewise distinguished: I merueill that he will dally after this sort. For although under the name off Deacon / and priest / tharchdeacon / and bishop be comprehended: Yet who understandeth not / that as when bishop / and archbishop are compared together / one doth not / nor cannot comprehend the other: so deacon / and Archdeacō / there expressly compared / are opposed members / and cannot be comprehended one of another. For Deacons being divided into archdeacons / and those called by the common name of Deacons / likewise priests into bishops / and which are cōmenly called priests (unless we will imagine that Sozome could not tell how to speak) we must needs take them for distinct members. Further if the Archdeacō be comprehended of any the rest of members in this place / it is under the Deacons: and if he be contained under a priest also / then both the Deacon which comprehendeth an archdeacon / must be contained under priest / and Sozome is yet more ridiculous / which of one only custom hath made four. Beside that / Jerome opposing an archdeacon unto an arch elder / or in your language archpriest / saying every church hath her archdeacon, and archpriest: declareth manifestly / that the archdeacon was no priest. And by Gregory's epistle / which writing unto the archdeacon off a certain church / maketh the title unto the Deacō off such a church: appeareth that the Archdeacon was not a priest / but a Deacon.

It is a simple exception against the Council off Urbane / that it is not to be found in the tome off Councils, especially when I cite it but for a story witness: seeing there are some Councils of more weight owt off that book / then some in yt. When Sozome tieth the archdeacon to the church of Alexandria / as well as the Elders / and Deacons / unless he wll say that the Elders / and Deacons were not tied unto that church: he must confess that the archdeacon was. Which if it were not clear by Sozome / is manifest by the words of Jerome / and Gregory before recited. Where he saith / we have no archdeacon not tied to one church: seeing he is called the archdeacon off such a shire / and hath his office not in one / but a hundred churches: I leave it to the readers Judgment / with what boldness he determineth to owtface all truth. Likewise I leave to his judgment / whether Jerome's words (which to declare the manner off the bishops election / bringeth for example the choice of the archdeacō by the Decons) be clear to prove that I have alleged thē for: and how frivolous he is in his shifts / as though it were so strange a thing / for the soldiers to choose their Capitaine: and how he taketh it for granted / that it is not material who chose the archdeacon / which is before confuted: and last of all / how well he concludeth / that forasmuch as a bishop is above a Deacon, therefore he is above the whole college off Deacons. Likewise how soundly he hath answered unto the 2. next sections: which to avoid the subjection off the archdeacon unto the minister / is driven to deny that an Archdeacon is a Deacon / which notwithstanding affirmeth that an Archbishop / is a bishop: yt being also before shown / that Gregory calleth an archdeacon Deacon / and being more clearer then the day / that as the archelder was both an Elder / and under any bishop: so the Archdeacon was a Deacon / and of right under any Elder. Considering that Jerome speaketh of that Deacon / at whose testimony an Elder was made: which one may easily understand / to have been an archdeacon.

I leave the things before handled / off Residence on a certain place for every minister: here is question only / what likelihood our Deans have with the old. Which because the D. will not perceive / I must be compelled to show Augustine's wodes to him better. First therefore the Deans were monks (for often monks one was Dean) and consequently not ministers: when it is manifest by stories / that the old monks were not only no ministers of the word / but not so much as within any order ecclesiastical. Secondly it was a reproach for those monks / and Deans to be in any city / or great town: seeing that a city was a prison unto monks / and agreed unto them as dry land unto fish. Thirdly their profession was to labor / and to gain their living by hand: nether was it lawful for them otherwise to live / so that he that did not labor / was esteemed as a thief: beside that / their diet was very homely / and gross. Hitherto I think there is nothing like with our Deans. Now where the Answ saith / the Deans were set over the other 9. Monks, and so in their rule resemble ours: he forgetteth that their rule was but in provision for meat / and playing the part off their Cater / whereof they made account unto the Father. Of whom there was no cause the D. should make mention here: but that he finding no deanly authority in this poor Dean / would fain make it owt in the father: whilst he would make the reader believe / that the Father / and Dean / were all one.

Where he saith / thes were godly societies which Augustine speaketh off: I will not deny but that Jerome / and August. with others commend them / as it is not hard to show that discommend them: but that they were so (what show soever they bore) being instituted besides the warrant off the word / I utterly deny. Wherein I will refer myself to the treatises off diverse learned mē / which have handled that matter: that I be not compelled here to set vpō this vermin / which the Ans. raiseth again from hell / to help the office off the Dean. it is enough to have shown / that beside the name / and institution without warrant of God's word / they have nothing in common. As for the unspeakable profit he saith they bring unto the church, it is but his custom with riotous / and ouerrunning words / to supply the beggary of his reasons: and yt is confuted in another place. There remaineth one testimony pertaining to this question off the archbishop / taken owt of Beza / whereby the Ans. would prove thes names good / and holy. Wherunto before I answer / to the end yt may appear that the D. doth but hunt after words / contrary to men's constant practice / and manifest writings: I am compelled here to open / what Beza's judgment is off them.

First I have shown before / how he holdeth that the name of dominion, whereof the Archbishop / and archdeacon be made / doth not agree unto the ministry. Secondly / in another place he so far misliketh / that any should be called archbishop / that he saith the order which for policy sake was taken in the ancient church, that one only amongst the Elders of every church, should have the name off bishop, or president, was the first foundation which the devil laid off tyranny in the church. After it came to Metrapolitanes, which they call archbishops: