Defense of the Translations of the Scriptures into the English Tongue
MART. 21. This being a thing so plain as nothing more in all the holy Scriptures, yet your itching humor of deceit & falfehood, for the most part doth translate still, images, images, when the Latin, and Greek, and Hebrew have diverse other words, and very seldom that which answereth to image. For when it is image in the Latin, or Greek, or Hebrew, texts, your translation is not reprehended: for we also translate sometimes, images, when the text of the holy Scripture requireth it. And we are not ignorant that there were images, which the Pagans adored for their gods: & we know that some idols are images, but not all images, idols. But when the holy Scriptures call thē by so many names, rather than images, because they were not only images, but made idols: why do your translations, like cuckoes birds, sound continually, images, images, more than idols, or other words equivalent to idols, which are there meant?
FULK. 21. In deed there is nothing more plain in all the holy Scriptures, thā that the worshipping of Images, of all sortes, is forbidden▪ but that our itching humor of deceit, and falsehood, (as it pleaseth you to speak) hath corrupted the text, to establish any false opinion of the use of Images, it is not yet proved. But now you set upon us with 13. Hebrew words, and 9. Greek words at ones, which we for the most parte do translate still Images, Images: and you say we sound with Cuckowes birds continually Images, Images, more than Idols or other words equivalent to Idols. How many times the word Image is sounded, I never had care to seek, and now I have no leisure to number, but I am sure Idols and Idolatry, in that translation in which least, are named above forty or fifty times. But to a conscience guilty of worshipping of Images, contrary to the express commandment of God, the very name of Images must needs sound vnpleasantly. That we have no greater change of words to answer so many of the Hebrew tongue, it is of the riches of that tongue, and the poverty of our mother language, which hath but two words, Image, and Idol, and them both borrowed of the Latin and Greek: As for other words equivalent, we know not any, and we are loath to make any new words of that signification, except the multitude of Hebrew words of the same sense coming together, do sometimes perhaps seem to require it. Therefore as the Greek hath fewer words to express this thing than the Hebrew, so hath the Latin fewer than the Greek, and the English fewest of all, as will appear if you would undertake to give us English words for the 13. Hebrew words. Except you would coin such ridiculous inkhorne terms, as you do in the new Testement, Azymes, Prepuce, Neophyte, Scandale, Parasceue, and such like.
MART. 22. Two places only we will at this time ask you the reason of: first why you translate the Hebrew and Greek that answereth to Statua, image, so often as you do? Whereas this word in the said tongues, is taken also in the better part, as when Jacob set up a stone and erected it for a title, pouring oil upon it: and the Prophet saith, Our Lord's altar shall be in Egypt, and his title beside it. So that the word doth signify generally a sign erected of good or evil, and therefore might very well (if it pleased you) have some other English than, image. Unless you will say that Jacob also set up an image: &, Our Lord's image shall be in AEgipt: which you will not say, though you might with more reason than in other places.
FULK. 22. Seeing you ask, why we translate the Hebrew word Matsebah so often an image? It had been reason you should have told us howe often we do so, or at least noted some place, where it cannot signify an image. We know the word being derived of the verb Iatsab that signifieth to stand, may be taken for something erected, that is no image, but a pillour, or as your Latin text calleth it a title, in both the places by you noted Gen. 28. Isaiah. 19. and else where Gen. 25. 2. Sam. 18. But whensoever we translate it an image, the circumstance of the place so requireth, as 2. Reg. 10. where it is said, that Baals images were taken out of his temple, broken and burnt. For they were images of Baal, that were worshipped in his temple, and not titles or pillours. Likewise 2. Reg. 17. where it is said, that the Ishmaelites made unto them selves, Statuas, images, and groves under every high hill and under every thick tree: as appeareth by Ezekiel. 6. where they be called Gillulim idols, which had the similitude of men, as Baalim and such other.
MART. 23. Secondly we demand, why your very last English Bible hath (Esa. 30. 22.) For two Hebrew words, which are in Latin Sculptilia and Conflatilia, twice, images, images: neither word being Hebrew for an image: no more than if a man would ask, what is Latin for an image, and you would tell him Sculptile. Whereuppon he seeing a fair painted image in a table, might happily say, Ecce egregium sculptile. Which every boy in the Grammar school would laugh at. Which therefore we tell you, because we perceive your translations endeavor and as it were affectate, to make Sculptile and image all one. Which is most evidently false and to your great confusion appeareth Abac. 2. v. 13. Where for these words, Quid prodest sculptile quia sculpsit illud fictor suus, conflatile & imaginem falsam: Which is according to the Hebrew and Greek: your later English translation hath, What profiteth the image? for the maker thereof hath made it an image, and a teacher of lies.
FULK. 23. If it had said, the graven images of silver, and the molten or cast images of gold, I know not what advantage it had been to you, or loss to us. But neither word (you say) is Hebrew for an image. Alacke this is poor sophistry, when all the world of Hebricians know, they are Hebrew for nothing else, but for graven or cast images, and by the figure Synecdoche, are taken generally for images of what making or matter soever they be. And the question is not, by what art images are made: but to what use, and howe they be used, that they may be condemned for unlawful. This I take to be the cause, why the interpretour neglected the difference of the Hebrew words, which sometimes is not observed, & in English impossible always, & unprofitable to be kept. As for your own conceit, whereat you think boys might laugh, I leave it to yourself. For if we were asked, what is Latin for an image, we could answer somewhat else than Sculptile. But if a boy should ask Pesilim or Massecath in this place of Isaiah doth signify, we would not answer a graven thing, or a molten thing, least he might show us the mantilltree of a chimney, and a brass pot hanging over the fire, and demand further whether Isaiah in this text spake of them, and all such things as they are. But it is most evidently false (you say) that Sculptile and Image are all one, and this appeareth to our great confusion, Abacuc the second &c. But I say to your shame, it will appear by this very text, that Pesel and Massecah signify one and the same thing and that most evidently. For thus the textis, What profiteth the Image ( Pesel ) for his maker iots • ro, hath made it, or (as you will have it) hath graven it Pesalo: what followeth now, but Massecah an Image? you had rather say Conflatile a molten Image. But then you must remember, that the maker of it by grauing, made it a molten Image, which is a strange piece of work, except you will say, that first he did caste it, and then he did grave it, but say which way you will, the same Image is called Pesel and Massecah without difference. The last words are vmoreh shaker, and a teacher of lies. For which words your translation hath Imaginem falsam, a false Image, whereas Moreh never signifieth an Image. But of that afterward.
MART. 24. I would every common Reader were able to discern your falsehood in this place. Firste, you make Sculpere sculptile, no more than, to make an image: Which being absurd you know (because the painter or embroderer making an image, cannot be said Sculpere sculptile) might teach you that the Hebrew hath in it no signification of image, no more than Sculpere can signify, to make an image: and therefore the Greek and the Latin precisely (for the most part) express neither more nor less, than a thing graven: but yet mean always by these words, a graven idol, to which signification they are appropriated by use of holy Scripture, as Simulacrum, idolum, conflatile, and sometime imago. In which sense of signifying Idols, if you also did repeat images so often, although the translation were not precise, yet it were in some parte tolerable, because the sense were so: but when you do it to bring all holy images into contempt, even the image of our Savior Christ crucified, you may justly be controlled for false and heretical translators.
FULK. 24. I would every common reader were able to discern your foolish malice in this place. For first while you cavil at the Etymology of the words, which the Prophet regardeth not, you make him say, that the ••• h • o • er thereof, hath graven a graven thing, a •• cl • ea thing. Secondly, where you say, that the Hebrew word Pes •• hath no signification of an image in it, leaning to the bare de •••• tion from the verb Pasal, you control the only use of it, which is to signify an image, or idol, whether it be graven, or molten, or by what workmanship soever it be made, which you confess to be the sense of it. But when we do it (you say) to bring all holy images into contempt, we may justly be controlled, for false and heretical translators. First we know no holy images, made with hands at this time so accounted, but they are all profane and abhominable idols. Secondly, if the translators purpose were evil, yet so long as the words and sense of the original tongue will bear him, he cannot justly be called a false and heretical translator, albeit he have a false and heretical meaning. As you Papists have in your late translation of the new Testament: yet where you translate, either according to the words, or according to the sense, no equity can condemn you for false translators.
MART. 25. As in this very place (which is another falsehood like to the other) conflatile you translate image, as you did sculptile, and so here again in Abacucke (as before in Isaiah is noted) for two distinct words, ech signifying another diverse thing from image, you translate, images, images. Thirdly, for imaginem falsam, a false image, you translate another thing, without any necessary pretense either of Hebrew or Greek, avoiding here the name of image, because this place telleth you that the holy Scripture speaketh against false images, or as the Greek hath, false phantasies, or as you translate the Hebrew, such images as teach lies, representing false gods which are not, as the Apostle saith, Idolum nihil est, And, Non sunt Dij qui manibus fiunt. Which distinction of false and true images you will not have, because you condemn all images, even holy and sacred also, and therefore you make the holy Scriptures to speak herein accordingly to your own faasie.
FULK. 25. Seeing the Prophet regardeth not the Etymology of the words, but useth both for one and the same Image, no nor regardeth the matter whereof it is made, as appeareth in the next verse, where he calleth this Idol wodde, and stone, which cannot be molten, every reasonable man may see, that the word Massecah doth in this place signify generally an Image, which is made to be a teacher of lies. And whereas you repeat, that the two words doc signify each another diverse thing from Image, because the one signifieth a graven thing▪ the other a molten thing, you speak without all shame, and sense of honesty: for Pesel signifieth not every graven, carved, or hewn thing, but only an Image. For who would say, that a mortar, or a gutter of hewn stone were in Hebrew to be signified by the word Pesel, or a pewter pot, or a dishe, by the word Massecah; Seeing the use of the Hebrew tongue therefore hath appropried these names only to Images, it is great frowardness, & no learning to quarrel about the etimologie or derivation of them. As this name building in English, is taken only for houses: as when we say here are goodly buildings, which if a man would extend according to the derivation, & showing nothing else but walls of brick or other matter, praise them for goodly buildings, he should be thought to speak straungly in our tongue, & yet according to the derivation, building may signify anything that is built. But for Imaginem falsam, a false image, you charge us to translate another thing, without any necessary pretence, either of Hebrew, or Greek. Such affirmations will make us think meanly of your knowledge, in the Hebrew tongue. For what I pray you else, cā Moreh in this place signify, but a teacher? or where is it ever taken for an image, as your Latin text hath, or a fantasie, as the Greek readeth. Turn over your dictionarie, and Hebrew concordance, and see if you can find it used for an image▪ or an idol. At least wise, give credit to Isidorus Clarius, who thus writeth in his notes upon the text. Quod ait imaginem falsam, in Heb. est docen • , vel annuncians mendacium. That he saith a false Image, in the Hebrew it is teaching or showing forth a lie The distinction you make of true and false Images, is vain for this purpose: for all Images that are used in religion, are false, and teachers of falsehood, which you with Gregory say are Laye men's books; but what shall they teache saith Abacuc and Jeremiah, but lies and vanity? where note that Jeremiah calleth the Image woodde, by Synecdoche, signifying all Images made with hands, of any matter. Again he saith, every artificer is confounded in his Image, because it is false which he hath made, and there is no breath in it. In which verse it is to be observed, that he useth first the word Pesel, saying Mippasel and afterward Nifco, for the same Image made by the artificer, without distinction of grauing or melting, at leastwise for the sense, though the words be diverse. Even so your vulgar Latin translator useth Sculptile, conflatile, imaginem & simulachrum, for one and the same thing. The Scripture therefore telling us that all Images are false, because they being void of life, are set up to represent the living, it is not our fantasie, but the authority of God's word, that causeth us to reject your fantastical distinction, of true and false Images.
MART. 26. Wherein you proceed so far, that when Daniel said to the King, I worship not idols made with hands ( 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 ) you make him say thus, I worship not things that be made with hands, leaving out the word idols altogether, as though he had said, nothing made with hand, were to be adored, not the Ark, the propitiatory, no nor the holy cross it self, that our Savior shed his blood upon. As before you added to the text, so here you diminish and take from it at your pleasure.
FULK. 26. That (thing) is put for idol, I confess it to be a fault in some translations, but in the Geneva Bible it is reformed. Contempt of the authority of that Apocryphal chapiter (as it seemed) did breed that negligence. Where you write, that he should by saying, I worship not things made with hands, have denied the Ark, and the propitiatory to be worshipped, it is very true, for neither of both was to be worshipped, as they were made with hands, but God was to be worshipped where they were, and those things to be reverently esteemed, as the sacraments, of God's presence. As for the cross whereon Christ died, I see no cause why it should be worshipped, if it were to be had, but rather, if it were worshipped, it should be served as the brazen serpent was. None of the Apostles made any account of it: Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathia, if there had been any matter of religion in it, might have preserved it, and not have suffered it to be buried in the earth, with the two other crosses▪ as the story of the invention, saith, if it be true. At the finding whereof, Helena as Saint Ambrose writeth, Regem adorauit non lignum vtique, quia hic gentilis est error & vanitas impiorum. She worshipped the King, not the tree verily, for this is an Hethenishe error and vanity of ungodly men. De obit. Theodosij.
MART. 27. But concerring the word image, which you make to be the English of all the Latin, Hebrew, and Greek words, be they never so many and so distinct, I beseech you, what reason had you to translate 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , images, Sap. 15. verse 13. doth the Greek word so signify? doth not the sentence following, tell you that it should have been translated, graven idols? for thus it saith. They judged all the idols of the nations to be God's. Loe, your images, or rather, loe, the true names of the Pagans gods, which it pleaseth you to call, images, images.
FULK. 27. I think you are not able to prove, that we make, image the English to all the Hebrew words, though you boldly affirm it. But in the place by you mentioned, I suppose they translated the Greek word graven or carved images, rather than idol, because the writer in that place, Sap. 15. 13. speaketh of the first framing and fashioning of those images, which though the purpose of the workman be never so wicked, yet cannot properly be called idols, before they be abused by them that worship them.
MART. 28. But (to conclude this point) you might, & it would have well becomed you, in translating or expounding the foresaid words, to have followed S. Jerome, the great famous translator, and interpreter of the holy Scriptures: who telleth you two senses of the foresaid words: the one literal, of the Idols of the Gentiles: the other mystical, of Heresies & errors. Sculptile, saith he, & conflatile: I take to be perverse opinions, which are adored of the authors that made thē. See Arius, that graued to him self this idol, that Christ was only a creature, and adored that which he had graven. Behold Eunomius, howe he molted and cast a false image, and bowed to that which he had molten. Suppose he had exemplified of the two condemned heretics, Jovinian, & Vigilantius also: had he not touched your idols, that is, the old condemned heresies, which you at this day adore?
FULK. 28. It becometh us best in translation, to follow the original text, and as near as we can, the true meaning of the holy Ghost. As for the two senses, which Hieronym telleth, stand whole and untouched, for our translation. There is a difference between a translation, and a commentary. In commenting upon the text, they that see it convenient, may apply the idols of the Gentiles, & the worship of them, to the heresies of our times, of the Papists, Anabaptists, Libertines, and such like, as the Apostle doth by similitude to covetousness. As for old condemned heresies, which you charge us to worship, as idols, you are able to prove none, whatsoever you bable of Vigilantius, and Jovinian, neither of both do we follow in any error, much less in any heresy.
MART. 29. These only (I mean heresies and heretics) are the idols and idolaters (by the ancient Doctors judgment) which have been among Christians, since the idolatry of the Gentiles ceased, according to the Prophets. Therefore S. Jerome saith again: If thou see a man that will not yield to the truth, but when the falsehood of his opinions is once shown, perseuereth still in that he began: thou mayst aptly say, Sperat in figmento suo, and he maketh dumb or deaf idols. And again, All Heretics have their gods: and whatsoever they have forged, they adore the same as Sculptile, and Constantile: that is as a graven and molten idol. And again, He saith well, I have found unto myself an idol: For, all the forgeries of heretics are as the idols of the Gentiles: neither do they much differ in impiety, though in name they seem to differ. And again, Whatsoever according to the letter is spoken against the idolatry of the Jews, do thou refer all this unto them, which under the name of Christ worship idols, and forging to them selves perverse opinions, carry the tabernacle of their king the devil, and the image of their idols. For they worship not an idol, but for variety of their doctrine, they adore diverse God's. And he put in very well, which you made to yourselves: for they received them not of God, but forged them of their own mind. And of the idol of Samaria, he saith, we always understand Samaria, (and the idol of Samaria) in the person of Heretics, the same Prophet saying, WOE BE TO THEM THAT DESPISE SION, AND TRVST IN THE MOVNT OF SAMARIA. For Heretics despise the Church of God, and trust in the falsehood of their opinions, erecting them selves against the knowledge of God: and saying, when they have divided the people (by schism,) we have no part in David, nor inheritance in the son of Isaiah.
FULK. 29. Not these only, but the idols of the Simonists, Valentinians, Gnostici, Carpocratits, Collyridians, and such like, made with hands, of Christ, and his mother, of Paul, and Simon, and Selene, and Pythagoras, &c. and such other, were idols of false Christians, since the idolatry of the Gentiles gave place, by the judgment of Irenaeus, Epiphanius, and other ancient doctors. And whatsoever you cite, or can cite out of Saint Jerome, against the idols of heresies, agreeth most aptly to yourselves, the Papists, who worship not only idols made with hands, but also the idols of your brains, which are abhominable heresies.
MART. 30. Thus the Reader may see, that the holy Scriptures which the adversaries falsely translate, against the holy images of our Savior Christ, and his Saints, to make us Idolaters, do in deed concern their idols, and condemn them as idolaters, which forge new opinions to them selves, such as the ancient fathers knew not, and adore them, and their own sense and interpretation of Scriptures, so far and so vehemently, that they prefer it before the approved judgment of all the general councils and holy doctors, and for maintenance of the same, corrupt the holy scriptures at their pleasure, and make them speak according to their fancies, as we have partly shown, and now are to declare further.
FULK. 30. Thus the Reader may see, that when you have caviled, quarrelled, falsified, and slandered, as much as you can, to charge us with false translation of the Scripture, concerning images, you can find nothing worth the nothing: but if some small oversight, through negligence, or perhaps the Printers fault, hath escaped, you make a great matter of it, although it be corrected by our selves in other translations, and when all other matter faileth, you return to your accustomed vein of railing, and reviling, which in no wise man's judgment, deserveth any answer, because it is so general.
CHAP. IIII.
The ECCLESIASTICALL use of words turned into their ORIGINAL and PROFANE signification.
Martin.
WE spake a little before of the double signification of words, the one according to the original property, the other according to the usual taking thereof in all vulgar speech and writing. These words (as by the way, we shown before, upon occasion of the Adversaries grant) are to be translated in their vulgar and usual signification, not as they signify by their original property. As for example: Major in the original signification▪ is greater. But when we say, The Major of London, now it is taken and soundeth in every man's ear, for such an Officer: and no man will say, The greater of London, according to the original property of it. Likewise Episcopus, a Greek word, in the original sense, is every overseer, as Tully useth it, and other profane writers: but among Christians, in Ecclesiastical speech, it is a Bishop. And no man will say, My Lord overseer of London, for my Lord Bishop. Likewise we say, Seven Deacons, S. Stephen a Deacon. No man will say, Seven Ministers, S. Stephen a Minister. Although that be the original signification of the word Deacon. But by Ecclesiastical use and appropriation being taken for a certain degree of the Clergy, so it foundeth in every man's ear, and so it must be translated. As we say, Nero made many Martyrs: not, Nero made many witnesses: and yet Martyr by the first original property of the word, is nothing else but a witness. We say Baptism is a sacrament: not, washing is a sacrament. Yet Baptism and washing, by the first original property of the word is all one.
Fulke.
WE have also answered before, that words must not be always translated, according to their original and general signification, but according to such signification, as by use they are appropried to be taken. We agree also that words taken by custom of speech into an Ecclesiastical meaning, are not to be altered into a strange or profane signification. For such vanities and novelties of words, the Apostle prohibiteth, whereof the popish translatiō of the New Testament is fraught full. Notwithstanding our meaning is not, that if any Greek terms, or words of any other language, have of long time been usurped in our English language, the true understanding of which is unknown at this day, to the common people: but that the same terms may be either in translation, or exposition, set out plainly, to inform the simplicity of the ignorant, by such words, as of them are better understood. Also when those terms are abused by custom of speech, to signify some other thing, than they were first appointed for, or else be taken ambiguously for diverse things: we ought not to be superstitious in these cases, but to avoid misvnderstanding, we may use words according to their original signification, as they were taken in such time, as they were written by the instruments of the holy Ghost. As for example, if a Bishop be mistaken by the people, either for such an idol as the Papists used to make of their S. Nicolas bishops, or else for a great Lord only, that rideth about in a white rochet, they may be told, that the name of a Bishop describeth his office, that is, to be an overseer of the flock of Christ, committed to his charge. Likewise if the word Deacon, be taken for such an one, as at a popish mass standeth in a disguised tunicle, holding a patten, or some other Idolatrous bable used of them: the people must be taught, that this name signifieth a minister, which was ordained not to serve the Popish altar, but the poor men's tables, that is, to provide for the poor, and to see the Churches alms bestowed upon them. Also if the name of Martyrs be not understood, but taken only for them that are tormented and rent in body, as the common speech is to say, of men & beasts, that they are martyred, whē their bodies are wounded and mangled: here it is needful to show, that the Saints that suffered for Christ, had their name of their witness or testimony, not of their pains & torments. The name of Baptism is so common to Christians, that it need not to be changed into washing: but yet it may and ought to be explicated unto the unlearned, what this word doth signify, which is no profane signification, but a true and general understanding of the word, which is used of the Evangelist for other washings than the Sacrament of Baptism, and so, you are enforced to translate it, Marc. 7.
MART. 2. Now then to come to our purpose, such are the absurd translations of the English Bibles, and altogether like unto these. Namely, when they translate congregation for Church, Elder for Priest, Image for Idol, dissension for schism, General for Catholic, secrete for Sacrament, over-seer for Bishop, messenger for Angel, embassadour for Apostle, minister for Deacon, and such like: to what other end be these deceitful translations, but to conceal and obscure the name of the Church and dignities thereof mentioned in the holy Scriptures: to dissemble the word schism (as they do also Heresy and Heretike) for fear of disgracing their schisms and Heresies, to say of Matrimony, neither Sacrament which is the Latin, nor mystery which is the Greek, but to go as far as they can possibly from the common usual and Ecclesiastical words, saying, This is a great secrete: in favor of their heresy, that Matrimony is no Sacrament.
FULK. 2. Absurde trāslations of the English Bibles, you say are congregation for Church, Elder for Priest, Image for Idol and such like. The word Church being ambiguously taken of the people for the place of assembly, & the assembly it self, it was as lawful for us to cal congregation, as for you to call it assembly, Acts 7. This word Priest, commonly taken for a sacrificer and the same that Sacerdos, and so by you translated: there was good occasion to use the word Elder, for which you use Senior, or ancient in your translation, which is a name of authority, as overseer is of diligence, minister of service▪ pastor of feeding all which names set forth a true Bishop, Pastor, and Elder, and if you will needs have it, of a true Prieste Of Image for Idol is said enough in the next Chapiter before, Schism I know not how English men should understand, except it were englished by dissension, division, rending, or some such like Of general for Catholic, we shall speak anon. Secrete for Sacrament, we use, because we would retain the ecclesiastical use of this word Sacrament which is to signify the seals of God's promises, and not confound it, with every holy or unholy secrete thing. The Greek word mystery, which you would enjoin us to use, was in the time of the first translation more unknown, than that we could well have used it, except we would have followed your vein, in vanity and novelty of terms, Praepu • e, neophyte, gratis, depositum, &c. or else made general and common the proper use of this Ecclesiastical term Sacrament, to every mystery, and called the Sacrament of preaching, of publishing the Gospel to the Gentiles, of the seven stars, as you do, and yet in the Sacrament of the whore of Babylon you leave it and call it mystery, Apoc. 17. v. 7. as you should be enforced to do, if you would translate the Old Testament out of Latin, Dan. 2. diverse times, except you would call Nabuchadonosors dream, a Sacrament, and Dan 4. where the king saith, that to Daniel no secrete is impossible; meaning unknown, or not understood, you would say, no Sacrament, & Tob. 12. you would translate Sacramentum regis abscondere bonum est. It is a good thing to hide the kings Sacrament, where you should say secrete, and where the English phrase would hardly bear you to say the kings mystery. Of the other terms, in the places by you quoted, it shall be sufficient to speak. But I have rendered reasonable causes of these terms hitherto: so that no mā, but mad with malice, would think we conceal the name of Church, & dignities thereof, in hatred of them, or do dissemble the names of schism & heresy, in favor of those abominations, which are as well set forth to their detestatiō, in the terms of dissention and sects: as for the name Sacrament, we find not in the Greek but mysterium we translate a secrete or a mystery, as the word signifieth, which nothing favoreth the pretended Sacrament of Matrimony.
MART. 3. S. Paul saith as plain as he can speak, I beseech you brethren, that you all say one thing, and that there be no schisms among you. They translate for schisms, dissensions: which may be in profane and worldly things, as well as in matters of religion. But schisms are those that divide the unity of the Church, whereof they know them selves guilty. S. Paul saith as plainly as is possible, A man that is an Heretike avoid after the first and second admonition. They translated in their Bible of the year 1562, A man that is an author of Sectes. And where the Greek is, Heresy, reckoned among damnable sins, they say, Sectes: favoring that name for their own sakes, and dissembling it, as though the holy Scriptures spake not against Heresy or Heretics, Schism or Schismatikes.
FULK. 3. S. Paul in deed speaketh plainly in Greek, but if you speak English & say schisms, forty thousand of the people in England will swear they understand you not. But schisms (you say) are those that devide the unity of the Church: dissensions may be in profane and worldly things. Verily all schisms devide not the Church, for they were not all the Church, of whom it is said in S. John 9. There was a schism among them: for I think the best of the Pharisees, were scarce good members of the Church. Again where S. Paul doth say, least there should be a schism in the body. 1. Cor. 12. He speaketh of the natural body, whereunto he compareth the Church. S. Paul also saith, as plainly as he can speak in Greek. 1. Cor. 11. v. 18. I hear that there be schisms among you: yet your vulgar Latin translator is bold to say Scissuras, cuttings or rendings, where you are bold to go from your Latin text and call them schisms. And for explicating the Greek name of heresy, by sects, why should we be more blamed▪ than the vulgar Latin translator, who commonly translateth it Sectas, and namely Gal. 5. 2. Pet. 2. Acts. 24. diverse times, 26. and 28 in all which places you yourselves translate sects. Is it because he, or you favor heresies and heretics? will you never leave this foolish wrangling, which always turneth you to the greater discredit?
MART. 4. As also they suppress the very name Catholic, when it is expressly in the Greek, for malice toward Catholics and Catholic religion, because they know, them selves never shall be called or known by that name. And therefore their two English Bibles accustomed to be read in their Church (therefore by like moste authentical) leave it clean out in the title of all those Epistles, which have been known by the name of Catholicae Epistolae ever since the Apostles time: and their later English Bible (dealing somewhat more honestly) hath turned the word Catholic into General: saying, The General Epistle of James, of Peter, &c. As if a man should say in his Creed, I believe the general Church, because he would not say, the Catholic Church: as the Lutheran Catechisms say for that purpose, I believe the Christian Church. So that by this rule, when S. Augustine telleth that the manner was in cities where there was liberty of religion, to ask, Qua itur ad Catholicam? We must translate it, Which is the way to the General? And when Saint Jerome saith, If we agree in faith with the B. of Rome, ergo Catholici sumus: we must translate it, Then we are Generals. Is not this good stuff? Are they not ashamed thus to invert and pervert all words against common sense, and use and reason? Catholic and General or universal (we know) is by the original property of the word all one: but according to the use of both, as it is ridiculous to say, A Catholic Council, for a General Council: so is it ridiculous and impious to say, General for Catholic, inderogation thereof, and for to hide it under a bushel.
FULK. 4. I do not know where the name of Catholic is once expressed in the text of the Bible, that it might be suppressed by us, which are not like to bear malice to the Catholic Church, or religion, seeing we teache, even our young children to believe the holy Catholic Church. But not finding the word Catholic in the text, you run to the title of the seven Epistles, called as commonly Canonical as Catholic or General. But Eusebius belike testifieth that they have been so called ever since the Apostles time, lib. 2. cap. 22. I marvel you are not ashamed to avouch such an untruth. Eusebius speaking of his own time, saith, they are so called, but that they have been so called ever since the Apostles time, he saith not. And so far off he is from saying so, that he pronounceth the Epistle of S. James in the same place, to be a bastard, and speaketh doubtfully of the Epistle of S. Jude. But whereas in one translation we use the word General for Catholic, you make a great may game of it, showing your wit and your honesty both at once. For these 5. of James, 2. of Peter, one of Jude, and the first of John, which are properly & rightly so entitled, have that title, because they are not sent to any particular Church, or persons, but to all in general, as the Greek scholiast truly noteth.
MART. 5. Is it because they would follow the Greek, that they turn 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , general? even as just, as when they turn 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 image, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 instruction, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 ordinance, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 dissension, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 sect, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 secrete, and such like, where they go as far from the Greek as they can, and will be glad to pretend for answer of their word, sect, that they follow our Latin translation. Alas poor shift for them that otherwise pretend nothing but the Greek, to be tried by that Latin which them selves condemn. But we honor the said text, and translate it Sects also, as we there find it, and as we do in other places follow the Latin text, and take not our advantage of the Greek text, because we know the Latin translation is good also and sincere, and approved in the Church by long antiquity, & it is in sense all one to us with the Greke: but not so to them, who in these days of controversy about the Greek and Latin text, by not following the Greek, which they profess sincerely to follow, bewray them selves that they do it for a malicious purpose.
FULK. 5. It is because we would have the Greek understood, as it is taken in those places, when we turn Catholic general, Idolum, image, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , instruction, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , ordinance, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , dissention, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , sect, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , secret, and such like. And where you say, we would be glad for our word sect, to pretend to follow your Latin translation, it is a fable. For in translating sect▪ we follow the Greek as truly, as your Latin translation doeth, which if it be true and sincere, as you confess, what devilish madness possesseth your malicious mind to burden us with such purposes, as no reasonable man would once imagine or think of, that we should use that term in favor of heresy, and heretics, whom we think worthy to suffer death, if they will not repent, and cease to blaspheme, or seduce the simple.
CHAP. V.
Heretical translation against the CHURCH.
Martin.
AS they suppress the name, Catholic, even so did they in their first English Bible the name of Church, it self: because at their first revolt and apostasy from that that was universally known to be the only true Catholic Church: it was a great obiectiō against their schismatical proceedings, and it stuck much in the people's consciences, that they forsook the Church, and that the Church condemned them. Wherupō very wi • ily they suppressed the name Church in their English translation, so, that in all that Bible so long red in their congregations, we cannot once find the name thereof. Judge by these places which seem of most importance for the dignity, preeminence, and authority of the Church.
Fulke.
HOwe can we suppress the name Catholic, which the holy Scripture never useth, as for the name of Church, I have already shown diverse times, that for to avoid the ambiguous taking of that term, it was at the first less used, but never refused, for doubt of any objection of the Catholic Church against us: the profession of which, being contained in our English creed, howe could we relinquish, or not acknowledge to be contained in the Scripture, in which we taught, that all articles of faith necessary to salvation are comprehended? But we are content to be judged by those places which seem of most importance for the dignity, preeminence, & authority of the Church.
MART. 2. Our Savior saith, Upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. They make him to say, Vpō this rock I will build my congregation. Again, If he hear not them, tell the Church: & if he hear not the Church, let him be to thee as an Heathen and as a publicane, they say, Congregation. Again, who would think they would have altered the word Church in the Epistle to the Ephesians? their English translation for many years red thus, Ye husbands love your wives as Christ loved the congregation, and cleansed it to make it unto him self a glorious congregation without spot or wrinkle. And, This is a great secrete, but I speak of Christ & of the congregation. And to Timothy, The house of God, which is the congregation of the living God, the pillar and ground of truth. Here is no word of Church, which in Latin & Greek is, Ecclesia Dei viui, columna & firmamētum veritatis. Likewise to the Ephesians again, He hath made him head of the congregation, which is his body. And to the Hebrews they are all bold to translate: The congregation of the first borne, where the Apostle nameth heavenly Jerusalem, the city of the living God, &c.
FULK. 2. In the first English Bible printed, where it was thus translated, Math. 16. upon this rock I will build my congregation:
MART. 3. So that by this translation, there is no more Church militant and triumphant, but congregation, and he is not head of the Church, but of the congregation: and this congregation at the time of the making of this translation, was in a few new brethren of England, for whose sake the name Church was left out of the English Bible, to commend the name of congregation, above the name of Church. Whereas S. Augustine telleth them, that the Jews Synagogue, was a congregation: the Church, a convocation: and that a congregation, is of beasts also: a convocation, of reasonable creatures only: and that the Jews congregation is sometime called the Church, but the Apostles never called the Church, Congregation. Do you see then what a goodly change they have made, for Church, to say congregation: so making themselves a very Synagogue, & that by the property of the Greek word, which (yet as S. Augustine telleth them most truly) signifieth rather a convocation?
FULK. 3. A strange matter that the Church militant and triumphant should be excluded, by using the word congregation: when by it nothing is signified but the congregation or Church militant and triumphant: and that Christ should no more be head of the Church when he is head of the congregation, where the difference is only in sound of words, not in sense or meaning. Your vain and ridiculous surmise, why the name of Church should be left out of the Bible, I have before confuted: showing that in every Bible it is either in the text, or in the notes. But S. Augustine telleth us (say you) that the Jews synagoge was a congregation, the church a convocation: & that a congregation is of beasts also, a convocation of reasonable creatures only. But S. Luke in the person of S. Stephen telleth us, and Augustine telleth us as much, that the synagoge of the Jews is called also Ecclesia: which signifieth the church and congregation. That Congregatio the Latin word, may be of beasts also, it skilleth not, for the church of Christ is called also a flock, and sheep of his pasture. But he that should say in English a congregation of beasts, might be taken for as wise a man, as he that said an audience of sheep. And whereas S. Augustine, telleth you, that the Jews congregation is sometime called the church: what is the cause that you do translate it, the assembly, Act. 7. even as you do the congregation of the Idolatrous Ephesians, Act. 19? But further (you say) Augustine telleth us, that the Apostles never called the church congregation. It is a world to see what foolish fetches you have, to deceive the ignorant. Augustine saith the Apostles never called our assembly Synagoga, but always Ecclesia: and yet he is a little deceived: for S. Paul calleth our gathering together unto Christ 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , but Congregatio, a congregation, he saith not. And although he make a nice distinction between the words Congregation & Conuocation, yet all men which know the use of these words, will confess no necessity of a Jewish synagoge, to be implied in the word congregation more than in the word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , which of the holy Ghost is used for an assembly or gathering together, either of Jews, Christians, or Gentiles. And therefore it seemeth the translator used the word congregation, which is indifferent for all, even as the word Ecclesia is used both in the Greek, and vulgar Latin.
MART. 4. If they appeal here to their later translations, we must obtain of them to condemn the former, and to confess this was a gross fault committed therein. And that the Catholic Church of our coūtry did not il to forbid & burn such books which were so translated by Tyndale and the like, as being not in deed God's book, word, or Scripture, but the Devils word. Yea they must confess, that the leaving out of this word Church altogether, was of an heretical spirit against the Catholic Roman Church, because then they had no Caluinisticall Church in any like form of religion & government to theirs now. Neither will it serve them to say after their manner, And if a man should translate Ecclesiam, congregation: this is no more absurdity, than in steed of a Greek word, to use a Latin of the same signification. This (we trow) will not suffice them in the judgment of the simplest indifferent Reader.
FULK. 4. We need not to appeal to the later translations, for any corruption or falsification of the former, no nor for any mistranslation. For seeing the spirit of God (as I have said before) useth the word Ecclesia generally for a company of Christians, Jews, and Gentiles, the translator hath not gone from the truth, and use of the Scriptures, to use the word congregation, which signifieth indifferently all three. Wherefore there needeth no condemnation, nor confession of any gross fault herein committed, except you will count it a gross fault in S. Luke, to use the word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 without any scrupulousity for all three, as the translator doth the word congregation, and you in two significations the word assembly. Neither can your heathenish and barbarous burning of the holy Scriptures so translated, nor your blasphemy in calling it the devils word, be excused, for any fault in translation, which you have discovered as yet, or ever shall be able to descrye. That stinking cavil of leaving out of the Bible this word Church altogether, being both foolish and false, I have answered more than once already. It is not left out altogether, that in contents of books and chapiters, and in notes of explication of this word congregation is set down. Neither could there be any purpose against the Catholic Church of Christ in them that translated and taught the Creed in English, professing to believe the holy Catholic Church. As for our hatred of the malignant Antichristian Church of Rome, we never dissembled the matter, so that we were afraid openly to profess it, what need had we then after such a fantastical manner (as is fondly imagined) to insinuate it.
MART. 5. But, my Masters, if you would confess the former faults and corruptions never so plainly, is that enough to justify your corrupt dealing in the holy Scriptures? Is it not an horrible fault so willfully to falsify and corrupt the word of God written by the inspiration of the holy Ghost? May you abuse the people for certain years with false translations, and afterward say, Loe we have amended it in our later translations? Then might the Heretike Beza be excused for translating in steed of Christ's soul in hell, his carcas in the grave. And because some friend told him of that corruption, & he corrected it in the later editions, he should nevertheless in your judgment, be counted a right honest man. No (be ye sure) the discrete Reader cannot be so abused, but he will easily see, that there is a great difference in mending some oversights which may escape the best men: & in your gross false translations, who at the first falsify of a prepensed malice, and afterwards alter it for very shame. Howbeit, to say the truth, in the chiefest & principal place that concerneth the Churches perpetuity & stability, you have not yet altered the former translation, but it remaineth as before and is at this day red in your Churches thus, Upon this Rock I will build my congregation. Can it be without some heretical subtlety, that in this place specially and (I think) only you change not the word congregation into Church? Give us a reason and discharge your credit.
FULK 5. You are very hardly, & in very deed maliciously bent against us, that you will accept no confession of faults escaped, never so plainly made. As for corrupt dealing in the holy Scriptures, and falsifying of the word of god▪ you are not able no not if you would burst yourself for malice, to convict us. And therefore look for no confession of any such wickedness, whereof our conscience is clear before God, and doth not accuse us. As for Beza's correction of his formen translation, Act. 2. v. 27. if your dogged stomach will not accept, he shall notwithstanding with all godly learned men, be accounted, as he deserveth, for one who hath more profited the Church of God, with his sincere translation, and learned annotations, than all the popish Seminaries, and Seminarists, shall be able to hinder it, iangle of gross & false translations, as long as you will. But the chiefest & principal place that concerneth the Churches perpetuity, is not yet reformed to your mind. For in the Bible 1577. we read still Math. 16. upon this rock I will build my congregation. If Christ have a perpetual congregation, built upon the foundation of the Prophets, and Apostles, him self being the corner stone, his Church is in no danger ever to decay. Yet you ask, whether it can be without some heretical subtlety, that in this place specially, and (as you think) only, the word congregation, is not changed into Church. It is an homely, but a true proverb: the good wife would never have sought her daughter in the oven, had she not been there first her self. You are so full of heretical subtleties, and traitorous devises, that you dream of them in other men's doings, whatsoever cometh into your hands: yea, where you yourself can have no probable imagination what to suspect. And therefore we must give you a reason, in discharge of our credit For my part, I know not with what special reason the translator was moved, but I can give you my probable conjecture, that he thought it all one, (as in deed it is.) to say my congregation, or my Church. For what is Christ's congregation, but his Church? or what is Christ's Church, but his congregation? And yet to put you out of all fear, the Geneva translation hath the word Church, that you make so great account of, as though it were not an indifferent word to the true Church, of true Christians, and the false Church of malignant Heretics: being usurped first to signify the congregation of Christians, by a Metonymy of the place containing, for the people contained. For the etymology thereof is from the Greek word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , which was used of Christians for the place of their holy meetings, signifying the Lord's house, therefore in the northren, which is the more ancient English speech, is called by contraction Kyrke, more near to the sound of the Greek word.
MART. 6. What shall I say of Beza, whom the English Bibles also follow, translating actively that Greek word, (which in common use, and by S. Chrysostom's, and the Greek doctors exposition, is a plain passive:) to signify, as in his annotations is clear, that Christ may be without his Church, that is, a head without a body. The words be these in the heretical translation, He gave him to be the head over all things to the Church, which (Church) is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all. S. Chrysostom. saith Beza, (he might have said, all the Greek & Latin ancient fathers) taketh it passively, in this sense, that Christ is filled all in all, because all faithful men as members, & the whole Church as the body, cōcur to the fullness & accomplishment of Christ the head. But this (saith he) seemeth unto me a forced interpretation. Why so Beza?
FULK. 6. That Beza translateth the participle, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , actively, it is plain, both in the text of his translation, & in his annotations. But that he doth it to signify, that Christ may be without his Church, that is a head without a body, it is a shameless slander. His words, upon which you weave this cobweb, are these. Omnino autem hoc addidit Apostolus, vt sciamus Christum per se non indigere hoc supplemento: vt qui efficia • omnia in omnibus reuera: nedum vt suppleatur à quoquam, nisi quatenus pro immensasua bonitate Ecclesiam dignatur sibi quasi corporis instar adiungere.
MART. 7. Mark his Doctors whom he opposeth to the fathers, both Greek & Latin. Because Xenophon (saith he) in such a place, & Plato in such a place, use the said Greek word actively. I omit this miserable match, and unworthy names of Xenophon and Plato, in trial of S. Paul's words, against all the glorious Doctors: this is his common custom. I ask him rather of these his own Doctors, how they use the Greek word in other places of their works? how use they it most commonly? yea how do all other Greek writers either profane, or sacred, use it? What say the Greek readers of all Universities? Surely, not only they, but their scholars for the most part, cannot be ignorant, that the use of this word, & the like, is passive, though sometime it may also signify actively: but that is so rare in comparison of the other, that no man lightly will use it, & I am well assured, it would be counted a fault, & some lack of skill, if one now in his writings that would express this in Greek, God filleth all things with his blessing, should say, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 : and, The wine filleth the cup, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 . Ask them that have skill, and control me▪ Contrariwise, if one would say passively, All things are filled with God's blessing, The cup is filled with wine, Such a prophecy is fulfilled. What mean Grecian would not say, as S. Chrysostom here expoundeth this word, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , using it possiuely?
FULK. 7. Mark howe malice carrieth this man almost into madness. For who but a mad man would think, that Beza opposeth profane writers to Ecclesiastical doctors, for understanding of the Scripture? The mean verb 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , which the meanest Grammarian in the world knoweth to be taken both actively & passively by the Grammar rule De verbo medio, Beza proveth out of Xenophon, and Plato, that it is and may be used actively. Why not therefore in this place of S. Paul, where both the sense requireth it, that one thing be not repeated twice without necessary cause, and the construction of the word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 calleth for it, which otherwise is left at randon, without any government? Seeing therefore we have the common rule of Grammar, and the example of eloquent writers for use, I marvel what M. Martin meaneth to waste so many words about so clear a matter. No man that knoweth anything, doubteth but that 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 may be, and is often taken passively: But seeing it is also found to be a verb mean, who need to be afraid to use it actively (having Xenophon and Plato for his warrant) yea even in those examples you put of God's blessing filling all things, or the wine filling the cup, if any man would speak so. But if because the word is more usually taken passively, men would refrain so to speak, yet why should we think that S. Paul did not use it actively? when the active signification is more agreeable, both with his words, and with his meaning. But least you should think Beza is alone, which taketh it actively, what say you to Philippus Montanus one of your own profession, which in his animaduersions upon Theophlyactes translation, by him corrected, saith upon this place 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 qui adimplet, vel adimpletur, verbum enim est medium, passive autem videtur accipere Theophylactus.
MART. 8. Yet (saith Beza) this is a forced interpretation, because Xenophon forsooth and Plato (once perhaps in all their whole works) use it otherwise. O heretical blindness or rather stubbornness, that calleth that forced, which is moste common and usual: and seeth not that his own translation is forced, because it is against the common use of the word. But no marvel. For he that in other places thinketh it no forced interpretation, to translate 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , to be contained, Which neither Xenophon, nor Plato, nor any Greek author will allow him to do, & 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 carcas, & 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 . providence, & 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , them that amend their lives, may much more in this place dissemble his forced interpretatiō of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 . But why he should call S. Chrysostom's interpretation forced, which is the common and usual interpretation, that hath no more reason, than if a very thief should say to an honest man, Thou art a thief, and not I.
FULK. 8. I have shown how it is enforced, because in taking the participle passively, you must either be enforced to admit a plain soloecisme, where none needeth: or else you must hardly understand the preposition 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 to govern, the accusative 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , as Montanus telleth you in Theophylact, and as Oecumenius doth, & the sense will be no more than is contained in the word Complemenium. Whereas by taking it actively, the wonderful goodness of Christ shineth toward his Church, who although he needeth nothing to make him perfect, as Chysostome saith, but supplieth all things in all things, yet it is his gracious pleasure, to account him self imperfect without his Church, which he hath united to him as his body, in which he is not perfect without all his members.
As for your vain and tedious repetition, like the Cuckowes song, of Beza's misprisions, I will not stand so often to answer, as you are disposed to rehearse thē: Only I must admonish the reader, of a piece of your cunning, that in repeating the participle, you change the temps, and for 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , you say 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , as though it were the preterperfect temps, which cannot be taken, but only passively. I know the Printer shall bear the blame of this oversight, but in the mean time it maketh a little show, to a young Grecian, that considereth it not.
MART. 9. Is it forced Beza, that Christ is filled all in all by the Church? doth not S. Paul in the very next words before, call the Church the fullness of Christ, saying, Which is the fullness of him that is filled all in all? If the Church be the, fullness of him, then is he filled or hath his fullness of the Church, so that he is not a maimed head without a body. This would S. Paul say, if you would give him leave, and this he doth say, whether you will or no. But what is the cause that they will not suffer the Apostle to say so? because (saith Beza) Christ needeth no such complement. And if he needeth it not, then may he be without a Church, and consequently it is no absurdity, if the Church hath been for many years not only invisible, but also not at all. Would a man easily at the first imagine or conceive that there were such secrete poison in their translation?
FULK. 9. You should urge Beza with a Latin Epistle, seeing you are so earnest in the matter. I have told you that the sense of Chrysostom is true, but not flowing easily from the words of S. Paul. That Christ hath his fullness of the Church, it is granted by Beza upon the word Plenitudo or Complemenium, as you cannot be ignorant, if you have red Beza's Annotations, as you pretend. But you charge Beza to say, that Christ needeth no such complement. Beza's words are as I have set hem down before, Vt sciamus Christum per se, non indigere hoc supplemento, that we may know that Christ of him self, needeth not this supply. Is this all one, with that you report him to say? No his saying was too long for your thievish bed, and therefore you cut of Perse of him self, or by him self. What say you? Dare you affirm that Christ of him self in respect of his divine nature, hath need of any complement? That Christ hath had always a Church since the beginning of the world, and shall have to the ende, Beza doth plainly in an hundredth places confess: neither can it be otherwise proved by this translation, nor vet (by Beza's words that Christ of him self is perfect and needeth no supply) but that it pleaseth him to become the head of the Church, as of his body, which his divine and merciful pleasure, seeing it is immutable, Christ cannot be without his Church, nor the Church without him. Yea as Beza in plain words affirmeth, this is our whole hope and consolation, that Christ esteemeth him self an imperfect head, and maimed of his members, except he have his Church adjoined to him as his body.
MART. 10. Again, it cometh from the same puddle of Geneva, that in their Bibles so called, the English Bezites translate against the unity of the Catholic Church. For whereas them selves are full of sects and dissensions, and the true Church is known by unity, and hath this mark given her by Christ him self, in whose person Solomon speaking saith, Vna est columba mea, that is, One is my dove, or, My dove is one. Therefore in steed hereof, the foresayed Bible saith, My dove is alone: Neither Hebrew nor Greek word having that signification, but being as proper to signify one, as Vnus in Latin.
FULK. 10. He that hath any nose may smell, that this censure cometh from the stinking puddle of Popish malice. For he that saith my dove is alone. Cant. 6. 8. doth a great deal more strongly aduouche the unity of the Church, than he that saith my dove is one. For whereas Solomon saith in the verse going immediately before. There are three score Queens, and four score concubines, and of the damsels without number, if you add thereto my dove is one: it may be thought she is one of those last mentioned. But if you say as the Geneva Bible doth, but my dove is alone, and my undefiled is the only daughter of her mother: Now the church is excepted from all the rest of the Queens, concubines, and damsels. And where you say, the Hebrew hath not that signification, I pray you go no further, but even to the same verse, and tell me whether the sense be, that, she is one of her mothers daughters, or the only daughter of her mother? Here therefore (as almost everywhere) you do nothing, but seek a knot in a rush.
MART. 11. But we beseech every indifferent Reader, even for his souls health to consider that one point specially before mentioned of their abandoning the name of Church for so many years out of their English Bibles: thereby to defeat the strongest argument that might and may possibly be brought against them and all other Heretics: to wit, the authority of the Church which is so many ways and so greatly recommended unto all Christians in ho'y Scriptures. Consider (I pray you) what a malicious intention they had herein. First, that the name Church should never sound in the common people's ears out of the Scriptures: secondly, that as in other things, so in this also it might seem to the ignorant a good argument against the authority of the Church, to say, We find not this word (Church) in all the holy Scriptures. For as in other articles they say so, because they find not the express word in the holy Scripture, so did they well provide, that the word (Church) in the holy Scriptures should not stay or hinder their schismatical and heretical proceedings, as long as that was the only English translation, that was read and liked among the people: that is, so long till they had by preaching taken away the Catholic Churches credit and authority altogether, among the ignorant by opposing the Scriptures thereunto, which them selves had thus falsely translated.
FULK. 11. We trust every indifferent Reader will consider, that they which translated the Greek word Ecclesia, the congregation, and admonished in the notes that they did by that word mean the church, and they which in the creed might have translated Ecclesiam Catholicam, the universal congregation, taught all children to say, I believe the Catholic church, could have no such devilish meaning as this malicious sclaunderer, of his own head doeth imagine. For whoever heard any man reason thus. This word church is not found in the Scripture, therefore the church must be despised, &c. Rather it is like (beside other reasons before alleged) that those first translators, having in the old Testament out of the Hebrew translated the words Cahal Hadath, and such other for the congregation (where the Papists will not translate the church, although their Latin text be Ecclesia, as appeareth, Act. 7. where they call it assembly) thought good to retain the word congregation, throughout the new Testament also, least it might be thought of the ignorant, that God had no church in the time of the old Testament. Howsoever it was, they departed neither from the word, nor meaning of the holy Ghost: nor from the usage of that word Ecclesia, which in the Scripture signifieth as generally, any assembly, as the word Congregation doeth in English.
CHAP. VI.
Heretical translation against PRIEST and PRIESTHOODE.
Martin.
BVt because it may be, they will stand here upon their later translations, which have the name Church, (because by that time they saw the absurdity of changing the name, & now their number was increased, and them selves began to challenge to be the true Church, though not the Catholic: and for former times when they were not, they devised an invisible Church) If then they will stand upon their later translations, and refuse to justify the former: let us demand of them concerning all their English translation, why and to what ende they suppress the name Priest, trāslating it Elder, in all places where the holy Scripture would signify by Presbyter and Presbyterium, the Priests and Priesthoode of the New Testament?
Fulke.
IF any error have escaped the former translations, that hath been reformed in the later, all reasonable men ought to be satisfied with our own corrections. But because we are not charged with oversights and small faults committed either of ignorance, or of negligence, but with shameless trāslations, willful & heretical corruptions, we may not acknowledge any such crimes, whereof our conscience is clear. That we devised an invisible church, because we were few in number, whē our translations were first printed, it is a lewd slander. For being multiplied (as we are God be thanked) we hold still that the Catholic church, which is the mother of us all, is invisible, and that the church on earth may at sometimes be driven into such straits, as of the wicked it shall not be known. And this we held always, and not otherwise. Now touching the word Presbyter, and Presbyterium why we translate them not Priest, and Priesthoode of the New Testament, we have given sufficient reason before: but because we are here urged a fresh, we must answer as occasion shall be offered.
MART. 2. Understand gentle Reader, their wily policy therein is this. To take away the holy sacrifice of the Mass, they take away both altar and Priest, because they know right well that these three (Priest, sacrifice, and altar) are dependentes and consequentes one of another, so that they cannot be separated. If there be an external sacrifice, there must be an external Priesthoode to offer it, an altar to offer the same upon. So had the Gentiles their sacrifices, Priests, and altars: so had the Jews: so Christ him self being a Priest according to the order of Melchizedek, had a sacrifice, his body: and an altar, his Cross, upon the which he offered it. And because he instituted this sacrifice to continue in his Church forever, in commemoration and representation of his death, therefore did he withal ordain his Apostles Priests at his last supper, there & then instituted the holy order of Priesthoode and Priests (saying, hoc faecite, Do this: ) to offer the self same sacrifice in a mystical and vnblouddie manner, until the worlds end.
FULK. 2. In denying the blasphemous sacrifice of the popish mass, with the altar, & priesthood, that thereto belongeth, we use no wily policy, but with open mouth at all times, and in all places, we cry out upon it. The sacrifices, priests, and altars of the Gentiles, were abhominable. The sacrifices of the Jews, their priests, and altars, are all accomplished and finished in the only sacrifice of Christ our high Priest, offered once for all, upon the altar of the cross: which Christ our Savior, seeing he is a Priest, according to the order of Melchizedek, hath an eternal priesthood, and such as passeth not by succession, Heb. 7. Therefore did not Christ at his last supper, institute any external propitiatory sacrifice of his body and blood, but a sacrament, joined with the spiritual sacrifice of praise, and thanks giving. Which sacrament being administered by the ministers thereto appointed, the sacrifice is common to the whole Church of the faithful, who are all spiritual priests, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, as much as the minister of the word and sacraments.
MART. 3. To defeat all this, and to take away all external priesthood and sacrifice, they by corrupt translation of the holy Scriptures, make them clean dumb, as though they had not a word of any such Priests, or Priesthood as we speak of. Their Bibles (we grant) have the name of Priests very often, but that is when mention is made either of the Priests of the Jews, or of the Priests of the Gentiles (specially when they are reprehended & blamed in the holy Scriptures) and in such places our Adversaries have the name Priests in there translations, to make the very name of Priest odious among the common ignorant people. Again they have also the name Priests, when they are taken for all manner of men, women, or children, that offer internal and spiritual sacrifices, whereby our Adversaries would falsely signify that there are no other Priests, as one of them of late freshly avoucheth, directly against S. Augustine, who in one brief sentence distinguisheth Priests properly so called in the Church, and Priests as it is a common name to all Christians. Lib. 20. de Ciuit. Dei, cap. 10. This name then of Priest and Priesthood properly so called (as S. Augustine saith) which is an order distinct from the Laity and vulgar people, ordained to offer Christ in an unbloody manner in sacrifice to his heavenly father for us, to preach & minister the Sacraments, and to be the Pastors of the people) they wholly suppress in their translations, & in all places where the holy scripture calleth them, Presbyteros, there they never translate Priests, but Elders. And that they do observe so duly and so warily, and with so full and general consent in all their English Bibles, as the Puritans do plainly confess, and M. Whit. gift denieth it not, that a man would wonder to see how careful they are, that the people may not once hear the name of any such Priest, in all the holy scriptures,
FULK. 3. Now you have gotten a fine net to dance naked in, that no ignorant blind bussarde can see you. The maskes of your net be the ambiguous and abusive significations of this word Priest, which in deed according to the original derivation from Presbyter, should signify nothing else, but an Elder, as we translate it, that is, one appointed to govern the Church of God, according to his word: but not to offer sacrifice for the quick and the dead. But by usurpation it is commonly taken, to signify a sacrificer, such as 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 is in Greek, and sacerdos in Latin, by which names, the ministers of the Gospel are never called by the holy Ghost. After this common acception, and use of this word Priest, we call the sacrificers of the old Testament, and of the Gentiles also: because the Scripture calleth them by one name Cohanin, or 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , but because the Scripture calleth the ministers of the new Testament by diverse other names, and never by the name of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , we thought it necessary to observe that distinction, which we see the holy Ghost so precisely hath observed. Therefore where the Scripture calleth them 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , we call them according to the etymology, Elders, and not Priests: which word is taken up by common usurpation, to signify sacrificers of Jews, Gentiles, or Papists, or else all Christians, in respect of spiritual sacrifices. And although Augustine, and other of the ancient fathers, call the ministers of the new Testament, by the name of sacerdotes, and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , which signify the ministers of the old Testament: yet the authority of the holy Ghost, making a perfect distinction between these two appellations, and functions, ought to be of more estimation with us. The Fathers were content to speak in Latin & Greek, as the terms were taken up by the common people newly converted from gentilitie, but yet they retained the difference of the sacrificing priesthood, of the one, and the ministerial office of the other. This may suffice therefore to render a reason, why we use not the word Priest for Ministers of the New Testament: not that we refuse it in respect of the etymology, but in respect of the use & common signification thereof.
MART. 4. As for example in their translations. When there fell a question about circumcision, They determined that Paul and Barnabas should go up to Jerusalem unto the Apostles and ELDERS, about this question. Act. 15. And again, They were received of the congregation and of the Apostles and ELDERS. Again, The Apostles and Elders came together to reason of this matter. Again, Then pleased it the Apostles and Elders with the whole congregation to send &c. Again, The Apostles and Elders and brethren send greeting &c. Again, They delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the Apostles and ELDERS. If in all these places they had translated Priests (as in deed they should have done according to the Greke word) it had then disaduantaged them this much, that men would have thought, both the dignity of Priests to be great, and also their authority in Councils, as being here joined with the Apostles, to be greatly reverenced and obeyed. To keep the people from all such holy and reverent cogitations of Priests, they put Elders, a name wherewith our holy Christian forefathers ears were never acquainted, in that sense.
FULK. 4. In all those places by you rehearsed, Act. 15. and 16. your own vulgar Latin text hath seniores, which you had rather call ancients (as the French Protestants call the Governors of their Churches,) than Elders, as we do. That Popish Priests should have any dignity or authority in Councils, we do flatly deny: but that the Seniors, Auncients, Elders, or Priests (if you will) of the New Testament, should have as much dignity and authority, as God's word doth afford them, we desire with all our hearts. That our Christian Forefathers ears were not acquainted with the name of Elders, it was because the name of Priest in their time, soūded according to the etymology, and not according to the corruption of the Papists: otherwise I think their ears were as much acquainted with the name of Elders, which we use, as with the name of Auncientes, and Seniors, that you have newly taken up, not for that they differ in signification from Elders, but because you would differ from us.
MART. 5. But let us go forward. We have heard often and of old time, of making of Priests: and of late years also, of making Ministers: but did ye ever here in all England of making Elders? Yet by these men's translations it hath been in England a phrase of Scripture this thirty year: but it must needs be very strange, that this making of Elders hath not all this while been practiced and known, no not among them selves in any of their Churches within the realm of England. To Titus they make the Apostle say thus, For this cause left I thee in Creta, that thou shouldest ordain ELDERS in every city, &c. Again of Paul and Barnabas: When they had ordained Elders by Election, in every congregration. Act. 14. If they had said plainly as it is in the Greek, and as our forefathers were wont to speak, and the truth is: Titus was le • t in Creta to ordain Priests in every city: and, Paul and Barnabas made Priests in every Church: then the people would have understood them they know such speeches of old, & it had been their joy & comfort to hear it specified in holy Scriptures. Now they are told another thing, in such newness of speeches and words, of Elders to be made in every city & congregation, and yet not one city nor congregation to have any Elders in all England, that we know not what is profane novelty of words, which the Apostle willeth to be avoided, if this be not an exceeding profane novelty.
FULK. 5. When you have got̄ a bable, you make more of it than of the tower of London, for you have never done playing with it. It must needs be a clarkely argument, that is drawn from the vulgar speeches of making Priests, and making Ministers. Those Priests or Ministers, that are made among us, are the same Elders that the Scripture in Greek calleth 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , and the Bishops letters of orders, testifying of their ordination, call them by none other name, but by the name of Presbyteri, which the Scripture useth: which term though in English you sound it Priests, Elders, Auncients, Seniors, or Ministers, which is the common people's word, it is the same office which is described by the holy ghost, Tit. 1. and in other places of Scripture. As for the profane novelty wherewith this word Elder is changed, we will consider of it in the next section.
MART. 6. That it is novelty to all English Christian ears, it is evident. And it is also profane, because they do so English the Greek word of ordaining (for of the word Presbyter we will speak more anon) as if they should translate Demosthenes, or the laws of Athens concerning their choosing of Magistrates, which was by giving voices with lifting up their hands. So do they force this word here, to induce the people's election, and yet in their Churches in England the people elect not ministers, but their Bishop. Whereas the holy Scripture saith, they ordained to the people: and whatsoever force the word hath, it is here spoken of the Apostles, and pertaineth not to the people, and therefore in the place to Titus it is another word which cannot be forced further, than to ordain and appoint. And they might know (if malice and Heresic would suffer them to see and confess it) that the holy Scriptures, and fathers, and Ecclesiastical custom, hath drawn this and the like words from their profane and common signification, to a more peculiar and Ecclesiastical speech: as Episcopus, an overseer in Tulite, is a Bishop in the New Testament.
FULK. 6. The name Elders used in our translation, is neither more novel to English ears, nor more profane to godly ears, than the name Auncients, which your translation useth. And yet I think the Apostle 1. Tim. 6. spake not of novelty to English ears, but of that which was new to the ears of the Church of God. But the word Elders (I ween) must be profane, because we English the Greek word of ordaining, as if we should translate Demosthenes, or the Laws of Athens concerning the choosing of Magistrates. Doth not this cavil redounde more against the holy Ghost, to accuse his style of profaneness, which useth the same words for the ordaining of Priests, that Demosthenes or the laws of Athēs might use for choosing of their Magistrates? But this word we enforce (you say) to induce the people's election, and yet the Bishop, not the people, elect our ministers. We mean not to enforce any other election than the word doth signify. Neither doth our Bishops (if they do well) ordain any Ministers or Priests without the Testimony of the people, or at leastwise of such as be of moste credit where they are known. Where you urge the pronowne, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , to them, as though the people gave no consent nor testimony, it is more than ridiculous: and beside that, contrary to the practice of the primitive Church▪ for many hundredth years after the Apostles, as also that you would enforce upon the word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , used by S. Paul, Tit. 1. as though that word of constitution, did exclude election. That the word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 by the Fathers of the Church since the Apostles, hath been drawn to other signification than it had before, it is no reason to teach us howe it was used by the Apostles. Election is an indifferent thing, the election of Bishops, Elders, or Priests is an holy thing, the holiness whereof is not included in the word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 but in the holy institution of Christ, and authority by appointment delivered, by imposition of the hands of the Eldership.
MART. 7. And concerning 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 which we now speak of, S. Jerome telleth them (in c. 58. Isaiah.) that it signifieth Clericorum ordinationem, that is, giving of holy orders, which is done not only by prayer of the voice, but by imposition of the hand: according to S. Paul unto Timothy, Manus cito nemini imposueris. Impose or put hands quickly on no man. That is, be not hasty or easy to give holy orders. Where these great etymologistes, that so strain the original nature of this word to profane stretching forth the hand in elections, may learn another Ecclesiastical erymologie thereof, as proper and as well deduced of the word as the other, to wit, putting forth the hand to give orders: and so they shall find it is all one with that which the Apostle calleth imposition of hands, 1. Tim. 4 2. Tim 1: and consequently, for, ordaining Elders by election, they should have said, ordaining or making Priests by imposition of hands: as else where S. Paul, 1. Tim. 5. and the Acts of the Apostles (Act. 6. and 13.) do speak in the ordaining of the seven Deacons and of S. Paul and Barnabas.
FULK. 7. The testimony of S. Jerome whom you cite, you understand not, for speaking there of the extension of the finger, which the septuaginta translate 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , and God requireth to be taken away: he saith, Many of our interpreters do understand it of the ordination of Clerks,
MART. 8. But they are so profane and secular, that they translate the Greek word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 in all the New Testament, as if it had the old profane signification still, & were indifferent to signify the ancients of the Jews, the Senators of Rome, the elders of Lacedemonia, and the Christian Clergy. In so much that they say, Paul sent to Ephesus, and called the Elders of the Church: Act. 20. and yet they were such as had their flocks, and cure of souls, as followeth in the same place. They make S. Paul speak thus to Timothy, Neglect not the gift (so they had rather say than grace, lest holy orders should be a Sacrament) given thee with the laying on of the hands of the Eldership. or, by the authority of the Eldership. 1. Tim. 4. What is this company of Eldership? Somewhat they would say like to the Apostles word, but they will not speak plainly, least the world might hear out of the Scriptures, that Timothy was made Priest or Bishop even as the use is in the Catholic Church at this day. Lette the fourth Council of Carthage speak for both partes indifferently, and tell us the Apostles meaning, A Prieste when he taketh his orders, the Bishoppe blessing him and holding his hand upon his head, let all the Priests also that are present, hold their hands by the Bishops hand upon his head. So do our priests as this day, when a Bishop maketh priests: and this is the laying on of the hands of the company of Priests, which S. Paul speaketh of, & which they translate, the company of the Eldership. Only their former translation of 1562. in this place (by what chance or consideration we know not) let fall out of the pen, by the authority of Priesthood.
FULK. 8. We desire not to be more holy in the englishe terms, than the holy Ghost was in the Greek terms. Whome, if it pleased to use such a word, as is indifferent to signify the ancients of the Jews, the Senators of Rome, the Elders of Lacedemonia, and the Christian Clergy, why should we not truly translate it into English?
But I pray you in good sadness, are we so profane, and secular, Act. 20. in calling those whom Saint Paul sent for out of Ephesus, Elders? What shall we say then of the vulgar Latin text, which calleth them Maiores natu? as though they obtained that degree by years, rather than by anything else? and why do you so profanely, and secularly call them the Auncients of the Church? Is there more profaneness and secularitie in the English word Elders, than in the Latin word Maiores natu, or in your Frenchenglishe term, Auncients. Surely you do nothing but play with the noses of such as be ignorant in the tongues, and can perceive no similitude or difference of these words, but by the sound of their ears. But now for the word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , used by Saint Paul, 1. Tim. 4. which we call the Eldershippe, or the company of Elders, I have shown before, howe it is used by Saint Luke, in his Gospel, cap. 22. and Act. 22. You say, we will not speak plainly, lest the world should hear, that Timothy was made Priest, or Bishop, even as the use is in the Catholic Church at this day. And then you tell us out of the Council of Carthage, 4. cap. 3. that all the Priests present should lay their hands on the head of him that is ordained, together with the Bishoppe. We know it well, and it is used in the Church of England, at this day. Only the term of Eldership displeaseth you, when we mean thereby the company of Elders. But whereas the translators of the Bible, 1562. call it Priesthood, either by Priesthood they meant the same that we do by Eldershippe: or if they meant by Priesthood, the office of Priests, or Elders, they were deceived. For 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 signifieth, a company of Elders, as it is twice used by S. Luke, and oftentimes by the ancient writers of the Church, both Greeks and Latins.
MART. 9. Otherwise in all their English Bibles, all the bells ringe one note, as, The Elders that rule well, are worthy of double honor. And, Against an Elder receive no accusation, but under two or three witnesses, 1. Tim. 5. And, If any be diseased among you, let him call for the Elders of the Church, and let them pray over him, and annoint him with oil, &c. Jacob. 5. Whereas Saint Chrysostom out of this place, proveth the high dignity of Priests in remitting sins, in his book entitled, Of Priesthood, unless they will translate that title also, Of Eldershippe. Again, they make S. Peter say thus: The Elders which are among you, I exhort, which am also an Elder, feedeye Christ's flock, as much as lieth in you, &c. 1. Pet 5.
FULK. 9. In these three texts you triumph not a little, because your vulgar Latin text hath the Greek word Presbyter. The high dignity of Priests, or Elders, in remitting sins, we acknowledge with Chrysostom, in his book entitled of Priesthood: which seeing it is 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , we will never translate Eldershippe. But we may lawfully wish, that both Chrysostom, and other ancient writers, had kept that distinction of terms, which the Apostles and Evangelists did so precisely observe. In the last text, 1. Pet. 5. your vulgar Latin saith, Seniores and Consenior, yourselves in English, seniors, and fellow senior. What trespass then have we committed, in saying Elders, & fellow Elder, or an Elder also?
MART. 10. Where if they will tell us (as also in certain other places) that our Latin translation hath Seniores, and maiores natu: we tell them, as heretofore we have told them, that this is nothing to them, who profess to translate the Greek. Again we say, that if they meant no worse than the old Latin translator did, they would be as indifferent as he, to have said sometime Priests, & Priesthood, when he hath the words Presbyteros & Presbyterium: as we are indifferent in our translation, saying Seniors and Auncients, when we find it so in our Latin: being well assured that by sundry words he meant but one thing, as in Greek it is but one, & as both Erasmus, & also Beza him self always translate it, keeping the name Presbyter & Presbyteri: of whom by reason they should have learned, rather than of our Latin translator, whom otherwise they condemn. And if they say, they do follow them, & not him, because they translate not Senior, & major natu, but the word Presbyter, or 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , an Elder, in all places: we tell them, and herein we conuent their conscience, that they do it to take away the external Priesthood of the New Testament, and to suppress the name Priest, against the Ecclesiastical, & (as now since Christ) very proper & usual signification thereof, in the new Testament, councils, & fathers, in all common writing and speaking: specially the Latin Presbyter, which grew to this signification out of the Greek, in the foresaid places of holy scripture.
FULK. 10. I have told you already, & you could not but know, that it should be told you, that seeing we translate none otherwise, thā your vulgar Latin trāslator, we are no more to be blamed of falsehood, corruption, profaneness, novelty, thā he is, who professed to traslate the Greek as much as we do. But if we had meant no worse (say you) than he, we would have been as indifferent to have said sometimes priest & priesthood, where he hath the word Presbyteros, & Presbyteriū. I answer, Presbyteriū he hath but once, and for that you have Priesthood once, as you confessed before. And if the name Priest were of the same understanding in common English, that the word Presbyter is, from whence it is derived, we would never have sought more words for it, than we do for the words Bishoppe, Deacon, and such like.
The words Presbyter, and Presbyterium, you confess, that Beza doth always use, and so do we, when we write or speak Latin, but we cannot use them in English, except we should be as fond as you in your gratis, deposi • um, and such fantasies. And to tell you plainly, as our conscience beareth us witness, we will never dissemble, that we avoid that word Priest, as it is used to signify a sacrificer, because we would show a perfect distinction, between the priesthood of the law, and the ministry of the Gospel: between Sacerdos, and Presbyter, a sacrificer, and a governor of the Church. And I appeal to your own conscience, whether if the English word Priest, were as indifferent as Presbyter, and sounded no more towards a sacrifice, than either Presbyter, or your own English words, Auncient, and Senior, whether (I say) you would make so much a do about it, for to have it in all places of the Newe Testament, where 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 is in the Greek. But seeing your popish sacrificing power, and blasphemous sactifice of your Mass, hath no manner ground at all in the holy Scriptures, either in the original Greek, or in your own Latin translation, you are driven to seek a seelye shadow for it, in the abusive acception and sounding of the English word, Priest, and priesthood. And therefore you do in the seconde section of this chapiter, in great earnest affirm, that Priest, sacrifice, and altar, are dependents, and consequents, one of another, so that they cannot be separated. If you should say in Latin Sacerdos, sacrificium, altare▪ or in Greek 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 be such consequents, we will all subscribe unto you: but if you will change the first word, and say Presbyter, sacrificium, altare, or 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , every learned man's ears will gloe, to hear you say, they are dependents and consequentes inseparable. Therefore we must needs distinguish of the word Priest, in your Corollary, for you mean thereby Sacerdotem, we grant the consequence of sacrifice and altar, but if you mean Presbyterium, we deny that ever God joined those three in an inseperable bande, or that Presbyter in that he is Presbyter, hath anything to do with sacrifice, or altar, more than Senior, or Maicr natu, or Auncient, or Elder.
MART. 11. Insomuch that immediately in the first Canons and Councils of the Apostles and their successors, nothing is more common than this distinction of Ecclesiastical degrees and names, Si Episcopus, vel Presbyter, vel Diaconus, &c. If any Bishop, or Priest, or Deacon do this or that. Which if the Protestants or Calvinists will translate after their manner thus, If a Bishoppe, or Elder, or Deacon, &c. they do against them selves, which make Presbyter or Elder a common name to all Ecclesiastical persons: and not a peculiar degree, next unto a Bishop. So that either they must condemn all antiquity for placing Presbyter in the 2. degree after a Bishoppe, or they must translate it Priest as we do, or they must make Elder to be their seconde degree, and so put Minister out of place.
FULK. 11. The distinction of Episcopus▪ and Presbyter to signify several offices, we grant to be of great antiquity, albeit we may not admit the counterfeit Canons of the Apostles, nor the Epistles of Ignatius, for such men's writings as they bear the name to be. We make Presbyter, or Elder, a common name to all Ecclesiastical persons, none otherwise, than you do this word Priest. For Deacons with us, are not called Presbyteri, or Elders. As for the distinction of Bishops and Elders names, which the Scripture taketh for the same, doth no more condemn all antiquity in us, than in you. Who acknowledge that the Scripture useth those names without distinctiō, in your note upon Act. 20. v. 28. where they are called Bishops, which before ver. 17. are called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 ,
MART. 12. And here we must ask them, how this name Minister came to be a degree distinct from a Deacon, whereas by their own rule of translation, Deacon is nothing else but a Minister: & why keep they the old and usual Ecclesiastical name of Deacon in translating Diaconus, and not the name of Priest, in translating Presbyter? Doeth not Priest come of Presbyter as certainly and as agreeably as Deacon of Diaconus? Doth not also the French and Italian word for Priest come directly from the same? Will you always follow fancy and not reason, do what you list, translate as you list, and not as the truth is, and that in the holy Scriptures, which you boast and vaunt so much of? Because yourselves have thē whom you call Bishops, the name Bishops is in your English Bibles, which otherwise by your own rule of translation, should be called an Ouerseer or Superintendent: likewise Deacon you are content to use as an Ecclesiastical word so used in antiquity, because you also have those whom you call Deacons: Only Priests must be turned contemptuously out of the text of the holy Scriptures, & Elders put in their place, because you have no Priests, nor will none of them, and because that is in controversy between us. And as for Elders, you have none permitted in England, for fear of overthrowing your Bishops office and the Queens supreme government in all spiritual things and causes. Is not this to follow the humor of your heresy, by Machiauels politic rules without any fear of God?
FULK. 12. Here I must answer you, that we have no degree of Ministers distinct from Deacons, but by vulgar and popular use of speaking, which we are not curious to control. Otherwise, in truth, we account Bishops, Elders, and Deacons, all Ministers of the Church. It is no more therefore, but the common speech of men, which useth that word, which is common to all Ecclesiastical persons, as peculiar to the Elders, or Priests. Why we keep the name of Deacons in translating Diaconus, rather than of Priests, in translating Presbyter, I have told you often before. The name Priest being by long abuse of speech applied to signify Sacrificers of the old Testament, called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , we could not give the same name to the Ministers of the New Testament, except we had some other name whereby to call the Ministers of the old Testament, wherein we follow reason, and not fancy, for it is great reason, we should retain that difference in names of the Ministers of both the Testaments, which the holy Ghost doth always observe. But you follow fancy altogether, imagining that Priests only are put out of the text, because we have no Priests. Whereas we have Priests as well as we have Bishops, and Deacons, and so are they called in our book of common prayer indifferently Priests, or Ministers. And where you say, we have no Elders permitted in England, it is false, for those that are commonly called Bishops, Ministers, or Priests among us, be such Elders as the Scripture commendeth unto us. And although we have not such a consistory of Elders, of government, as in the Primitive Church they had, and many Churches at this day have: yet have we also Elders of government to exercise discipline, as Archbishoppes, and Bishops, with their Chauncellours, Archdeacons, Commissaries, Officialles, in whom if any defecte be, we wish it may be reformed according to the word of God.
MART. 13. Apostles you say for the most parte in your translations (not always) as we do, and Prophets, and Evangelists, and Angels, and such like, & wheresoever there is no matter of controversy between you and us, there you can plead very gravely for keeping the ancient Ecclesiastical words, as your master Beza for example, beside many other places where he bitterly rebuketh his fellow Castal • ons translation, in one place writeth thus: I cannot in this place dissemble the boldness of certain men, which would God it rested within the compass of words only. These men therefore concerning the word Baptizing, though used of sacred writers in the mystery or Sacrament of the New Testament, and for so many years after, by the secrete consent of all Churches, consecrated to this one Sacrament, so that it is now grown into the vulgar speeches almost of all nations, yet they dare presume rashly to change it, and in place thereof to use the word washing. Delicate men forsooth, which neither are moved with the perpetual authority of so many ages, nor by the daily custom of the vulgar speech, can be brought to think that lawful for Divines, which all men grant to other Masters and professors of arts: that is, to retain and hold that as their own, which by long use and in good faith they have truly possessed. Neither may they pretend the authority of some ancient writers, as that Cyprian saith, TINGENTES, for BA • PTIZANTES, and Tertullian in a certain place calleth SEQVESTREM, for MEDIATOREM. For that which was to those ancients as it were new, to us is old: and even then, that the self same words which we now use, were familiar to the Church, it is evident, because it is very seldom that they speak otherwise. But these men by this novelty seek after vain glory, &c.
FULK. 13. If in any place we use not the name of the Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Angels, and such like, we are able to give as sufficient a reason why we translate those words according to their General signification, as you for translating sometime Baptismata, washings, and not baptisms, Ecclesia the assembly and not the Church, with such like. Therefore as Castaleo & such other Heretics, are justly reprehended by Beza, for leaving (without cause) the usual Ecclesiastical terms, so when good cause or necessity requireth not to use them, it were superstition, yea and almost madness sometimes in translating to use them, as to call the Pharisees washings Baptismes, or the assembly of the Ephesiā Idolaters the Church, yet both in Greek and Latin the words are Baptismata, ecclesia.
MART. 14. He speaketh against Castaleon, who in his new Latin translation of the Bible, changed all Ecclesiastical words into profane and Heathenish, as Angelos into genios, Prophetas into Fatidicos, Templum into fanum, and so forth. But that which he did for foolish affectation of fineness and style, do not our English Calvinists the very same when they list, for furthering their Heresies? When the holy Scripture saith idols according as Christians have always understood it for false gods, they come and tell us out of Homer and the Lexicons, that it may signify an image, and therefore so they translate it. Do they not the like in the Greek word that by Ecclesiastical use signifieth, penance, and doing penance, when they argue out of Plutarch, and by the profane sense thereof, that it is nothing else but changing of the mind or amendment of life? Whereas in the Greek Church, Poenitentes, that is, they that were in the course of penance, and excluded from the Church, as Catechumen, and Energumeni, till they had accomplished their penance, the very same are called in the Greek 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 .
FULK. 14. That Castaleo did for foolish affectatiō of fineness, you slander us to do for furthering of heresy. And here again with lothsomnes, you repeat your rotten quarrel of idols, translated images, which was to discover your abhominable idolatry, cloaked under a blind & false distinction of images and idols. The word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , we translate repentance, as you do sometimes, when you cannot for shame use your Popish term penance, by which you understand satisfaction for sin, which in diverse places you are enforced to give over in the plain field, and to use the term repentance: as in the fifth of the Acts. This Prince and Savior, God hath exalted with his right hand to give repentance to Israel and remission of sins, likewise Act. 11. where the Scripture speaketh of God giving repentance to the Gentiles. And when you speak of Judas, you say also repenting him, so that the repentance of Judas, and that which God gave to Israel, and to the Gentiles is uttered in one term, whereas else you have almost everywhere penance, and doing of penance. Where you say we make repentance nothing but changing of the mind, or amendment of life, you speak untruly, for not every changing of the mind is godly repentance, neither is only amendment of life all repentance: but there must be contrition, and sorrow for the life past. That in the Greek Church they that were Catechumen, and Energumeni, were called 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , such as are in repentance it maketh nothing against the true use of the Greek word, as it is used in the Scriptures. We know the discipline of the Church appointed an outward exercise of praying, fasting, and other humbling, for a trial, and testimony of true and hearty repentance, which was sometimes called by the name of repentance by a Metonymia signi, which he that will enforce by that name to be partes of true and inward repentance, is as wise as he that will contend the Iuy bushe to be a parte of wine, because some men seeing it hang over the house, will say, loe here is wine.
MART. 15. They therefore leaving this Ecclesiastical signification, and translating it according to Plutarch, do they not much like to Castaleo? Do they not the same, against the famous and ancient distinction of Latrîa, and Dulîa, when they tell us out of Eustathius upon Homer, and Aristophanes the Grammarian, that these two are all one? Whereas we prove out of S. Augustine in many places, the seconde Council of Nice, Venerable Bede, and the long custom of the Church, that according to the Ecclesiastical sense and use deduced out of the Scriptures, they differ very much. Do they not the like in Mysterium and Sacramentum, which they translate a Secrete in the profane sense, whereas they know how these words are otherwise taken both in Greek and Latin, in the Church of God? did they not the like in the word Ecclesia, when they translated it nothing else but congregation? Do they not the like in 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , which they translate, ordaining by election, as it was in the profane court of Athens: whereas S. Hierons telleth them, that Ecclesiastical writers take it for giving holy orders by imposition of hands? Do they not the like in many other words, wheresoever it serveth their heretical purpose? And as for profane translation, is there anymore profane than Beza him self, that so often in his annotations, reprehendeth the old translation, by the authority of Tully, and Terence, Homer, and Aristophanes, and the like profane authors? yea so fondly and childishly, that for Olfactum, which Erasmus useth, as Pliny's word, he will needs say, odoratum, because it is Tullius word.
FULK. 15. In translating the Scripture, we use the word repentance, in the same signification, that the scripture useth 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 . In other Ecclesiastical writers, we can nevertheless understand it, as they mean it. Concerning that unlearned distinction of Latria and Dulia, we do rightly, to show out of profane writers, that it is vain, and that the terms signify all one, and you yourself confess in your marginal note, that sometimes in the Scripture 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , do not signify the service and honor that is proper to God, as for 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , is in more than an hundred places, used for the service & honor proper to God. S. Augustine you confess afterward, knew well but one tongue, & therefore he is no meet judge of distinction of Greek words. Bede followeth Augustine's error. The idolaters of the 2. Nicene council, were glad of a cloke for the rain, contrary to the property of their tongue. As is proved by Eustathius, Aristophanes, Xenophon, Soudas, and by later writers, no Protestants, Laurentius Valla, and Ludouicus Viues. Mysterium we translate a secret, or a mystery, indifferently, the word signifying no more an holy secret, than a profane and abhominable secrete, as the mystery of iniquity, the mystery of Babylon. For the words Ecclesia, and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , we have said sufficiently, and very lately. To use Tullius words, when they answer the Greek, as properly as any barbarous words, or less commendable words, I know not why it should be counted blame worthy in Beza, or in any man, except it be of such a Sycophant, as liketh nothing, but that which savoreth of his own spittle.
MART. 16. But to return to our English translators: do not they the like to profane Castaleo, and do they not the very same that Beza their Master so largely reprehendeth, when they translate Presbyterum, an Elder? Is it not all one fault to translate so, and to translate, as Castaleo doth Baptismum, washing? Hath not Presbyter been a peculiar and usual word for a Priest, as long as Baptismus for the Sacrament of regeneration, which Castaleo altering into a common and profane word, is worthily reprehended? We will prove it hath, not for their sake, who know it well enough, but for the Readers sake, whom they abuse, as if they knew it not.
FULK. 16. If it be as great a fault in us to translate Presbyterum, an Elder, as for Castaleo to translate Baptismum, washing: your vulgar translator must be in the same fault with us, which so often translateth Presbyteros, seniores, or maiores natu, which signify Elders, and not Priests: it is a vain thing therefore that you promise to prove, that Presbyter hath been a peculiar, and usual word for a Priest, as long as Baptismus for the Sacrament of regeneration. For peculiar you can never prove it, seeing it is used in the Scripture so often, for such Elders & Ancients, as you yourself would not cal Priests. So that if you did translate the whole Bible out of your own vulgar Latin▪ you must translate Presbyter thrice, an Elder or Auncient, for once a Priest.
MART. 17. In the first and second Canon of the Apostles we read thus, Episcopus à duobus aut tribus Episcopis ordinetur. Presbyter ab vno Episcopo ordinetur, & Diaconus, & alij Clerici. that is, Let a bishop be consecrated or ordained by two or three Bishops. Let a Priest be made by one Bishop. See in the 4. Council of Carthage the diverse manner of cōsecrating Bishops, Priests, Deacons, &c. Where S. Augustine was present and subscribed. Again, Si quis Presbyter contēnens Episcopum suum &c. If any Priest contemning his Bishop, make a several congregation, and erect another altar, (that is, make a Sehisme or Heresy) let him be deposed. So did Arius being a Priest against his Bishop Alexander. Again, Priests and Deacons, let them attempt to do nothing without the Bishop. The first Council of Nice saith, The holy Synod by all means forbiddeth, that neither Bishop, nor Priest, nor Deacon &c. have with them any foreign woman, but the mother, or sister, &c. in whom there is no suspicion. Again, It is told the holy Council, that in certain places & cities, Deacons give the Sacraments to Priests. This neither rule nor custom hath delivered, that they which have not authority to offer the sacrifice, should give to them that offer, the body of Christ. The 3. Council of Carthage wherein S. Augustine was, and to the which he subscribed, decreeth, That in the Sacraments of the body & blood of Christ, there be no more offered than our Lord him self delivered▪ that is, bread and wine mingled with water. Which the sixth general Council of Constantinople repeating and confirming, ad doth If therefore any Bishop or Priest do not according to the order given by the Apostles mingling water with wine, but offer an vnmingled sacrifice, let him be deposed &c. But of these speeches all Councelles be full: where we would gladly know of these new Translatours, how Presbyter must be translated: either an Elder, or a Priest.
FULK. 17. I think you have clean forgotten your promise so lately made, that this word Presbyter hath always been peculiar for a Priest, you bring many testimonies, some counterfeit, some autenticall, in which the name of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and Presbyter is found, but that in all them it is peculiar for a Priest, you show not at all. Some color it hath of that you say, in the 14. Can. of the Nicene Council, & Carth. 3. c. 24. repeated Const. 6. where mention is made of sacrifice and offering, for so they did improperly call the administration of the Lord's supper, in respect of the sacrifice of thanks giving that was offered therein. After which phrase also, they called the Ministers 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and Sacerdotes, sacrificers. So they called that which in deed was a table of wood an altar, and the inferior ministers Levites, by which it appeareth they did rather allude to the names used in the old Testament, than acknowledged a sacrificing Priesthood, that might as properly be so called, as the Priesthood after the order of Aaron was. Sometime they used the name of sacrifice & Sacerdos generally, for religious service, & the minister of religion as the Gentiles did. And hereof it is that we read often▪ of the sacrifices of bread and wine,
MART. 18. Do not all the fathers speak after the same manner, making always this distinction of Bishop and Priest, as of the first and second degree? S. Ignatius the Apostles scholar doth he not place Presbyterium as he calleth it, and Presbyteros (Priests, or the College of Priests) next after Bishops, and Deacons in the third place, repeating it no less than thrice in one Epistle, and commending the dignity of all three unto the people▪ doth not S. Jerome the very same, saying▪ Let us honor a Bishop; do reverence to a Priest, rise up to a Deacon? And when he saith, that as Aaron & his sons & the Levites were in the Temple, so are Bishops, Priests, and Deacons in the Church, for place and degree. And in another place, speaking of 〈…〉 ages done by the Vandals and such like, Bishops were 〈…〉 Priests slain, and diverse of other Ecclesiastical o •• ers: Churches overthrown, the altars of Christ made stables for horses, the relics of Martyrs digged up, &c. When he saith of Nepotian, fit Clericus, & per solitos gradus Presbyter ordinatur: he becometh a man of the Clergy, and by the accustomed degrees in m 〈…〉 at? a Priest, or an Elder? when he saith, Mihi ante Presby ••• ū sedere non licet &c. doth he mean he could not sit above an Elder, or above a Priest, himself as then being not Priest? When he▪ & Vincentius (as S. Epiphanius writeth) of reverence to the degree, were hardly induced to be made Presbyteri: did they refuse the Eldership? What was the matter that John the B. of Jerusalem, seemed to be so much offended with Epiphanius & S. Jerome? was it not because Epiphanius made Pauliamus, S. Jerome's brother, Priest within the said John's Diocese?
FULK. 18. Before the blasphemous heresy of the Popish sacrifice of the Mass was established in the world, the fathers did with more liberty use the terms of sacrifice, and sacrificing Priests: which improper speeches, since they have given occasion in the time of ignorance, to maintain that blasphemous heresy, there is good reason that we should beware how we use any such terms, especially in translatiō of the Scriptures. Al the rest of the authorities you cite in this section, & 500. moe such as they are, speak of Presbyter or 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 which words we embrace: but of the English word Prieste, as it is commonly taken for a sacrificer, or against this word Elder, they speak nothing, for in all those places, we may truly translate for Presbyter an Elder.
MART. 19. When all antiquity saith, Hieronymus Presbyter, Cecilius Presbyter, Ruffinus Presbyter, Philippus, I •• encus, Hesychius, Beda, Presbyteri: and when S. Jerome so often in his Cataloge saith, Such a man Presbyter: is it not for distinction of a certain order, to signify that they were Priests, and not Bishops? namely when he saith of S. Chrysostom, Johannes Presbyter Antiochenus, doth he not mean, he was as then but a Priest of Antioch? Would he have said so, 〈…〉 had written of him, after he was Bishop of Constantinopl 〈…〉
FULK. 19. Al this while here is nothing for the English word Priest, in that respect we avoid it in trāslatiō, nor against the word Elder, which we use, by which we mean 〈…〉 other thing, than the Scripture doth give us to vn 〈…〉 d by the word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 . As for the distinction of Episcopus, & Presbyter which came in afterward, you yourself confessed as we heard of late, that it is not observed in the Scriptures, but the same men are called Episcopy, which before were called Presbyteri. And according to that distinctiō, you can allow but one Bishop of one city at once: yet the Scripture in diverse places speaketh of many Bishops of one city, as Act. 20. the Bishops of Ephesus called before Presbyteri, Elders, also he saluteth the Bishops and Deacons of Philippi, Phil. 1. where your note saith, that, In the Apostles time, there were not observed always distinct names of either function of B. & Priest. Would you have us to translate the Scripture with distinction of names which the holy ghost maketh not, nor your vulgar Latin observeth, nor you yourself for shame can observe? And if we should have translated for Elders, Priests, that distinction taken up after the Apostles times, or the writing of the Scripture, had been never the more confirmed.
MART. 20. But of all other places, we would desire these gay translators to translate this one place of S. Augustine, speaking of himself a Bishop, and S. Jerome a Priest. Quanquam enim secundū honorū vocabula, quae iam Ecclesiae vsus obtinuit, Episcopatus Presbyterio major fit: tamen in multis rebus, Augustinus Hieronymo minor est. Is not this the English thereof? For although according to the titles or names of honor, which now by use of the church have prevailed, the degree of Bishoppe be greater than Priesthood, yet in many things, Augustine is less than Jerome. Or, doth it like them to translate it thus, The degree of Bishop is greater than Eldership, &c? Again, against Julian the heretic, when he hath brought many testimonies of the holy doctors, that were all Bishops, as of S. Cyprian, Ambrose, Basil, Nazianzen, Chrysostom: at length he cometh to S. Jerome, who was no Bishop, and saith: Nec sanctum Hieronymum, quia Presbyter fuit, contemnendum arbitreris, that is, Neither must thou think, that S. Jerome, because he was but a priest, therefore is to be contemned: whose divine eloquence, hath shined to us, from the East, even to the West, like a lamp, and so forth to his great commendation. Here is a plain distinction of an inferior degree to a Bishop, for the which the Heretike Julian did easily contemn him. Is • ot S. Cyprian full of the like places? is not all antiquity so full, that whiles I prove this, me thinketh I prove nothing else, but that snow is white?
FULK. 20. Of all other importune and unreasonable judges, you are one of the worst, that would enforce us to translate the Scriptures, which you confess observeth not the distinction of Bishops, and Priests, according to the fathers, which do almost always observe it. If we should translate those sentences of S. Augustine, we might use the word Priest, for Presbyter, and priesthood, for presbyterium, and if we use the words Elder, and Eldership, what offense I pray you, were it, when by these names we understand nothing, but the same function & minister which Augustine doth? That Episcopus, a Bishop, was of very old time used, to signify a degree Ecclesiastical, higher than Presbyter, an Elder or Priest, we did never deny, we know it right well.
MART. 21. In all which places, if they will translate Elder, and yet make the same a common name to all Ecclesiastical degrees, as Beza defineth it, let the indifferent Reader consider the absurd confusion, or rather the impossibility thereof: if not, but they will grant in all these places, it signifieth Priest, and so is meant: then we must beat them with Beza's rod of reprehension against Castaleon: that we cannot dissemble the boldness of these men, which would God it rested within the custom of words only, and were not important matter, concerning their heresy. These men therefore touching the word Priest, though used of sacred writers in the mystery of the new Testament, and for so many years after, by the secret consent of all Churches, consecrated to this one Sacrament, so that it is now grown to be the proper vulgar speech almost of all nations: yet they dare presume rashly to change it, and in place thereof, to use the word Elder delicate men forsooth (yea worse a great deal, because these do it for heresy, & not for delicacy) which neither are moved with the perpetual authority of so many ages, nor by the daily custom of the vulgar speech, can be brought to think that lawful for divines, which all men grant to other masters & professors of arts, that is, to retain & hold that as their own, which by long use, & in good faith, they have truly possessed. Neither may they pretend the authority of any ancient writer (as that the old Latin translator saith, Senior, & Seniores) for that which was to them as it were new, to us is old: & even then, that the self same words which we now use, were more familiar to the Church, it is evident, because it is very seldom that they speak otherwise.
FULK. 21. I see no impossibility, but that in all places where we read Presbyter, we may lawfully translate Elder, as well as Priest, and make it still in Scripture, a common name to all Ecclesiastical degrees, at least, to as many as the Scripture maketh it common, without any absurdity or confusion. And albeit in the fathers, we should translate it Priest, because they understood by the name Presbyter, a distinct degree from Episcopus: yet the saying of Beza against Castaleo, could not by any wise man be applied to us. For Castaleo changed the name of the Sacrament Baptismus, by which both the Scriptures, and the fathers uniformly, did use to signify one, and the same Sacrament: whereas the name of Presbyter, in the Scripture, signifieth one thing, and in the fathers another. For in the Scripture it is taken indifferently for Episcopus, and Episcopus for Presbyter: but in the fathers these are two distinct degrees. Therefore he is worthy to be beaten in a Grammar school, that cannot see manifest difference between the use of the word Baptismus, which being spoken of the Sacrament▪ in the Scriptures, and fathers, is always one and of Presbyter, which in the Scriptures is every Ecclesiastical governor, in the fathers one degree only, that is subject to the Bishop.
MART. 22. Thus we have repeated Beza's words again, only changing the word Baptism into Priest, because the case is all one: and so unwittingly Beza the successor of Calvin in Geneva, hath given plain sentence against our English Translatours in all such cases, as they go from the common received and usual sense, to another profane sense, and out of use: as namely in this point of Priest and Priesthood. Where we must needs add a word or two, though we be too long, because their folly and malice is too too great herein. For whereas the very name Priest, never came into our English tongue, but of the Latin Presbyte • , (for thereupon Sacerdos also was so called, only by a consequence) they translate Sacerdos, Priest, and Presbyter, not Priest, but Elder, as wisely, and as reasonably, as if a man should translate, Praetor Londini, Maire of London: & Major Londini, not Maire of London: but Greater of London: or Academia Oxoniensis, the University of Oxford: and Vniuersitas Oxoniensis, not the University, but the Generalitie of Oxford: and such like.
FULK 22. Beza's words agree to us, as well as Germans lips, that were nine mile asunder. For if this english word Priest, by custom of speech, did signify no more than the Greek word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , we would no less use it in our translations, than Bishops and Deacons: which offices though they be shamefully abused by the Papists, yet the abuse of the words, maketh no confusion between the ministers of the law, and of the Gospel, as this word Priest doth, by which the Jewish sacrificers are rather understood, than preachers of the Gospel, and ministers of the Sacraments. But whereas the etymology of this English word Priest, cometh from Presbyter, you charge us with great folly and malice, that for Sacerdos, we translate Priest, and for Presbyter, Elder. To this I answer, we are not Lord's of the common speech of men, for if we were, we would teache them to use their terms more properly, but seeing we cannot change the use of speech, we follow Aristotels council, which is to speak, and use words▪ as the common people useth, but to understand and conceive of things, according to the nature and true property of them. Althoughe for my parte, I like well of the French translation, which for 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 or Sacerdotes always translateth sacrificateurs, sacrificers, and for Presbyteri, where they signify the Ministers of the word and Sacraments, Prestres, Priests. But this diversity being only of words and not of matter, or meaning reasonable men will take an answer, fools and quarrellers will never acknowledge any satisfaction.
MART. 23. Again, what exceeding folly is it, to think that by false and profane translation of Presbyter into Elder, they might take away the external Priesthoode of the New Testament, whereas their own word Sacerdos, which they do and must needs translate Priest, is as common and as usual in all antiouitie, as Presbyter: and so much the more, for that it is used indifferently to signify both Bishops and Priests, which Presbyter lightly doth not but in the New Testament. As when Constantine the Great said to the Bishops assembled in the Council of Nice, Deus vos constituit sacerdotes, &c. God hath ordained you Priests, and hath given you power to judge of us also. And Saint Ambrose, When diddest thou ever hear, most clement Prince, that lay men have judged Bishops. Shall we bend by flattery so far, that forgetting the right of our Priesthoode, we should yield up to others, that which God hath commended to us? And therefore doeth Saint Chrysostom entitle his six books De Sacerdotio, Of Priesthoode, concerning the dignity and calling not only of mere Priests, but also of Bishops: and S. Gregory Nazianzen handling the same argument saith, that they execute Priesthoode together with CHRIST. And S. Ignatius saith, Do nothing without the Bishops, for they are Priests, but thou the Deacon of the Priests. And in the Greek Liturgies or Masses, so often, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , Then the Priest saith this, and that▪ signifying also the Bishoppe when he saith Mass. and S. Denys saith sometime Archisacerdotem cum sacerdotibus. The high Priest or Bishoppe with the Priests: whereof come the words 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , in the ancient Greek fathers, for the sacred function of Priesthoode, and executing of the same.
MART. 24. If then the Heretics could possibly have extinguished Priesthoode in the word Presbyter, yet you see, it would have remained still in the words Sacerdos & Sacerdotium▪ which themselves translate Priest and Priesthoode: and therefore we must desire them to translate us a place or two after their own manner: first Saint Augustine speaking thus, Q • is vnquam audiuit sacerdotem ad altare stantem etiā super reliquias Martyrum▪ dicere: offero tibi Petre, & Paul vel Cypriane? Who ever heard that a PRIEST standing at the altar▪ even over the relics of the Martyrs, said, I offer to thee Peter, and Paul, or Cyprian? So (we trow) they must translate it. Again, Nos vni Deo & Martyrum & nostro, sacrificium immolamus, ad quod sacrificium sicut homines Dei, suo loco & ordine nominantur, non tamen à sacerdote inuocantur. Deo quippe, non ipsis sacrificat, quamuis in memoria sacrificet eorū, quia Dei sacerdos est, non illorū. Ipsum vero sacrificium corpus est Christi. We think they will and must translate it thus. We offer sacrifice to the only God both of Martyrs and ours, at the which Sacrifice, as men of God they (Martyrs) are named in their place & order: yet are they not invocated of the Priest that sacrificeth. For he sacrificeth to God, and not to them (though he sacrifice in the memory of them) because he is God's Priest, and not theirs. And the sacrifice it self is the body of Christ.
FULK. 23. 24. Nay, what exceeding folly is it to think that an external sacrificing office, can be established in the New Testament (which never calleth the Ministers thereof, Sacerdotes, or 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 ) because men of later time have improperly transferred those terms unto the Elders or Priests of the new Testament. Certainly among so many names as the Scripture giveth them, if sacrificing for the quick and the dead, had been the principal parte of their function, as by you Papists hath been accounted: is it credible, that the holy Ghost would never have called them 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , as well, yea, and rather than the Sacrificers of the old Testament? Seeing therefore the holy Ghost had made such a broad difference, between their names, and offices, those ancient fathers that confounded those names, which the spirit of God would have to be distinct cannot be excused: although they never dreamed of the mischief that followed, that the altar of the cross being overthrow̄, & the only & sufficient sacrifice, which Christ our high Sacrificer offered once for all, being judged imperfect, a new altar, a new sacrifice, and a new sacrificing Priesthoode should be set up in the steed of it. Wherefore the improper speeches of the ancient writers, are no warrant for us, either to translate the Scripture according to their improper speaking, or to set up a new sacrifice and function of sacrificing, contrary to their meaning. They named sacrifice and offering, but they meant not propitiatory sacrifiee, but only of prayers, or praises and giving of thanks. They named 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , and Sacerdotes, but they meant according to the general etymology of those words, such as were occupied in distributing holy things, not such as should verily sacrifice the body of Christ again to his father, but offer the sacrifice of thanks giving in the Sacrament of the Lord's supper, which after a certain manner (as Saint Augustine saith) is called the body of Christ, when in deed it is the Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ. And it is called the sacrificing of the body of Christ, not in truth of the thing, but a signifying mystery▪ as Gracian citeth out of Jerome.
MART. 25. Likewise when Saint Ambrose saith▪ The consecration ( of the body of Christ ) with what words is it, and by whose speech? Of our Lord Jesus. For in the rest that is said there is praise given to God, prayer made for the people, for Kings, and others: but when it cometh that the venerable Sacrament must be consecrated, now the Priest useth not his own words, but he useth the words of Christ. And S. Chrysostom in very many places saith, The sacred oblation it self, whether Peter, or Paul, or any meaner Priest whatsoever offer it, is the very same that Christ gave unto his disciples, and which now the Priests do make or consecrate Why so I pray thee? because not men do sanctify this, but Christ him self. which before consecrated the same. And again, It is not man that maketh the body and blood of Christ, but he that was crucified for us, Christ: the words are uttered by the Priests mouth, and by God's power & grace are the things proposed, consecrated. For this, saith he, is my body. With this word are the things proposed, consecrated.
FULK. 25. These testimonies are heaped up without any need, for the improper usage of these words 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , or Sacerdos in the ancient writers, we do acknowledge: but in the holy Scripture you are not able to bring one place, where Presbyteri of the new Testament are called Sacerdotes, or 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 . Wherefore of the improper applying of these names, to the Ministers of the new Testament, can follow no consequence of external sacrifice, or altar which you urge, except sacrifice and altar be likewise used improperly, as where the table is called an altar, the bread & wine a sacrifice, as in Irenaeus lib. 4. cap. 32. where also he saith, that the sacrifices do not sanctify the man, but the conscience of the man being pur • , sanctifieth the sacrifice, and causeth God to accept it as of a friend cap▪ 34. Which cannot in any wise be true of the natural body of Christ.
MART. 26. And so be these places, where them selves translate Sacerdos a Priest, they may learn also how to translate Presbyteros in S. Jerome saying the very same thing, that at their prayers, the body and blood of our Lord is made. And in another place, that with their sacred mouth, they make our Lord's body. Likewise when they read S. Ambrose against the Novatians, that God hath granted licēc • to his Priests to release & forgive as well great sins as little without exception: & in the Ecclesiastical history, how the Nouatian Heretics taught that such as were fallen into great sins, should not ask for remission of the Priest, but of God only: they may learn howe to translate Presbyteros, in S. Jerome, and in the Ecclesiastical history, where the one saith thus: Episcopus & Presbyter, cùm peccatorum audierit varietates, scit qui ligandus sit, qui soluendus: and the other speaketh de Presbytero Poenitentiario, of an extraordinary Priest, that heard confessions, and enjoined penance, who afterward was taken away, and the people went to diverse ghostly fathers, as before. And especially Saint Chrysostom • ill make them understand what these Presbyteri were, and how they are to be called in English, who telleth them in their own word, that Sacerdotes, the Priests of the new law have power, not only to know, but to purge the filth of the soul, therefore whosoever despiseth them, is more worthy to be punished, than the • ebell Dathan, and his complices.
FULK. 26. Where S. Jerome useth the word Presbyteri, we will make no great courtesy to translate Priests: knowing that when he saith, at their prayers, the body and blood of Christ is made, he meaneth the Sacrament of the body and blood: of Christ, as he him self saith in another place.
MART. 27 Now then (to conclude this point) seeing we have such a cloud of witnesses (as the Apostle speaketh) even from Christ's time, that testify not only for the name▪ but for the very principal functions of external Priesthood, in offering the sucrifice of Christ's body & blood▪ in remitting sins, and so forth: what a pe •• ish, malicious, and impudent corruption is this, for the defacing of the testimonies of the holy scriptures tending thereunto, to seek to scratch advantage of the • ord Presbyter, and to make it signify an Elder, not a Priest: Presbytenum Eldership rather than Priesthoode: as if other new fangled companions that would forge an Heresy that there were no Apostles, should for that purpose translate it always legates: or that there were no Angels▪ & should translate it always Messengers: & that Baptism were but a Iudaical ceremony, & should translate it washing: which Castalio did much more tolerably in his trāsiatiō than any of these should, if he did it only of curiosity & folly. And if to take away all distinction of clergy & lai • y the Protestants should always translate clerum▪ lotte or lotterie, as they do translate is for the same purpose parish and heritage: might not Beza him self control them, saying, that the ancient fathers transferred the name clerus to the College of Ecclesiastical Ministers?
FULK. 27. A cloud of testimonies in deed you have heaped together, not as the Apostle did to uphold the certainty of faith: but to obscure the light of truth. For our translation of 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 an Elder is true, clear & plain, without ambiguity. Insomuch as the vulgar Latin interpreter▪ who as it seemeth was a Greciā, & therefore useth gladly many Greek terms, doeth yet translate this woe • d almost twice as often̄ senior or major natu, as he doth Presbyter, whē he speaketh of the ministers of the gospel. How the ancient writers applied unto thē improperly the name of sacrificer, as unto the sacrament the name of oblation or sacrifice, I have spoken already sufficiently. Our translation therefore is nothing like your vai 〈…〉 supposal of of new fangled companions, which to 〈…〉 ▪ Apostles, Angels, and Baptism, would turn the words into Legates, Messengers, & washing. Whereas we have no purpose to deny any office or function of the Church appointed by Christ, but to distinguish in name, as his spirit in the Scriptures doth always, the sacrificers of the Old Testament, from the Ministers of the new Testament. The word Clerus, 1. Pet. 5▪ which we translate parish or heritage, yourselves in your notes of that place confess, to comprehend in signification all Christians, which you are not able to prove, that in S▪ Peters time it was transferred unto the college of ecclesiastical ministers, as Beza saith it was afterward: wherefore it is one of your accustomed slaūders, to say we translate it so of purpose, to take away all distinction of Clergy and Laity, when all men know, that wheresoever our Churches are established, we retain the distinction, and so think it necessary always.
MART. 28. But all • s, the effect of this corruption and heresy concerning Priests, hath it not wrought within these few years such contempt of all Priests, that nothing is more odious in our country than that name: which before was so honorable & venerable, & now is, among all men? If ministry or Eldership were grown to estimation in steed thereof, somewhat they had to say but that is yet more contemptible, and especially Elders and Eldership, for the Queens Majesty and her Counsailours will permit none in government of any Church in England, and so they have brought all, to nothing else, but profane lai • ie. And no marvel of these horrible inconveniences, for as the Sacrifice and Priesthoode go together, and therefore were both honorable together: so when they had according to Daniel's prophecy, abolished the daily sacrifice out of the church, what remained, but the contempt of Priests and Clergy and their offices, so far forth, that for the holy Sacrifice sake, Priests are called in great despite, Massing Priests▪ of them that little consider, or less care, what notable holy learned fathers of all ages since Christ's time, this their reproach toucheth and concerneth, as by the testimonies before alleged is manifest, and whereof the Reader may see a peculiar Chapter in the late Apology of the English Seminaries.
FULK. 28. A meruaylous corruption, for us to cal them Elders, whom you in your translation call Auncients, and the vulgar Latin before us both called Seniores. But what is come to pass I pray you by this wonderful corruption? The name of Popish Priests is so contemptible, that nothing is more odious in England. And good cause why: both for their blasphemy against God, and traitorous practices against the honorable state of the realm▪ and our most gracious Queen. But Elders and Eldership (you ween) is more contemptible because the Queens Majesty & her Counsailors will permit none in government of any Churches in England, and so they have brought all to nothing else, but profane Laity. This traiterous slander of yours, is as true, as all the rest. For although the Queens Majesty and the Counsaile do not permit such consistories of Elders for only discipline and government, as be in some other Churches, yet do they not only permit, but also maintain and reverence, such Elders, being signified by the Greek word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 as are necessary for the government of the Church in doctrine, Sacraments, and discipline to the salvation of God's people. The daily sacrifice mentioned in Daniel, was the Morning and Euening sacrifice of the old Law, whereunto your blasphemous sacrifice of the Mass hath no resemblance. You may not therefore look to recover the credit of Massing Priests, by that sacrifice, which being once instituted by God, was at length taken away by the only sacrifice of Christ's death: Against which all the Apologies in the world shall never be able to defend your Massing Priesthood. As for the chapter of Allens Apology, whereunto you refer us, containeth certain quotations, & a few sentences of the ancient writers which have been answered an hundred times, to justify massing Priests, but all in vain, for never shall he prove, that any one from the Eldest which he nameth unto Beda, which is the youngest, was such a Massing Prieste in all pointes, as those traitors are, which by the Queens laws and edict are proscribed and prohibited. I mean not for their manners, but for their Mass and all opinions incident thereunto.
CHAP. VII.
Heretical translation against PVRGATORIE, LIMBVS PATRVM, CHRIST'S DESCENDING INTO HEL.
Martin.
HAVING now discovered their corrupt translations for defacing of the Churches name, and abolishing of Priest and Priesthood: let us come to another point of very great importance also, and which by the wonted consequence or sequel of error, includeth in it many erroneous branches. Their principal malice then being bent against Purgatory, that is, against a place were Christian souls be purged by suffering of temporal pains after this life, for surer maintenance of their erroncous denial hereof, they take away and deny all third places, saying that there was never from the beginning of the world any other place for souls after this life, but only two: to wit, heaven for the blessed: and hell for the damned. And so it followeth by their heretical doctrine, that the Patriarchs, Prophets, and other good holy men of the Old Testament, went not after their deaths, to the place called Abraham's bosom, or Limbus patrum. But immediately to heaven: & so again by their erroneous doctrine • it followeth, that the fathers of the Old Testament were in heaven, before our savior Christ had suffered death for their redemption: and also by their erroneous doctrine it followeth, that our savior Christ was not the first man that ascended and entered into heaven: and moreover by their heretical doctrine it followeth, that our savior Christ des • ended not into any such third place, to deliver the fathers of the old Testament out of their prison, and to bring them triumphantly with him into heaven, because by their erroneous doctrine they were never there • and so that article of the Apostles Creed concerning our savior Christ his descending into hell, must either be put out by the Calvinists, as Beza did in his Confession of his faith printed An. 1564. or it hath some other meaning, to wit, either the lying of his body in the grave, or (as Calvin and the purer Calvinists his scholars will have it) the suffering of hell pains & distresses upon the Cross. Loe the consequence and coherence of these errors and heresies.
Fulke.
WE may be bold to say with S. Augustine, We believe according to the authority of God▪ that the kingdom of heaven is the first place appointed for God's elect, and that hell is the seconde place, where all the reprobrate & such is be not of the faith of Christ, shall suffer eternal punishment. Tertium penitus ignoramus, imo nec esse in scriptures sanctis inuenimus. The third place we are utterly ignorant of, yea and that it is not, we find in the holy Scriptures. But hereof it followeth, say you, that the godly of the old Testament, went not after their deaths to Abraham's bosom, or Limbus patrum, but immediately to heaven. Of Limbus patrum. which is a border of the Popes hell, I grant it followeth▪ but of Abraham's bosom it followeth none otherwise, than if I should say, Gregory Martin went into Chepeside, Ergo, he went not to London. That the fathers of the Old Testament were in Heaven, before our Savior Christ had suffered death for their redemption, it is no inconvenience: for his death was as effectual to redeem them that lived before he suffered actually, as them that live since, because in God's sight, he is the Lamb that was slain from the beginning of the world. And the fathers that were justified by faith in his blood, received the same crown and reward of righteousness, that we do being justified by the same means. And yet our Savior Christ was the first man, that in his whole manhood ascended and entered into heaven, into the fullness and perfection of glory which is prepared for all God's elect, to be enjoyed after the general resurrection. That our Savior Christ descended into no prison after his death, we verily believe, and yet we do also constantly believe the article of our Creed, that he descended into hell, by suffering in soul the pains due to God's justice, for the sins of all whom he redeemed, and by vanquishing the Devil, and all the power of hell, in working the redemption of all the children of God. If Beza in his confession had clean left out that article, which is untrue, he had been no more to be blamed than the auctors of the Nicene Creed, and many other Creedes in which it is not expressed, because it is partly contained under the article of his sufferings, partly it is in parte of the effect and virtue of his death and redemption.
MART. 2. These now being the heretical doctrines which they mean to avouch and defend whatsoever come of it: first, they are at a point not to care a rushe for all the ancient holy Doctors, that write with full consent to the contrary (as themselves confess, calling it their common error) secondly, they translate the holy Scriptures in favor thereof most corruptly and willfully, as in Beza's false translation (who is Calvin's successor in Geneva) it is notorious, for he in his new Testament of the year 1556. printed by Robertus Stephanus in folio, with Annotations, maketh our Savior Christ say thus to his father, Non derelinques cadauer meū in sepulchro, Thou shalt not leave my carcass in the grave, Act. 2. For that which the Hebrew, and the Greek, and the Latin, and S. Jerome according to the Hebrew, say: Non derelinques animam meam in inferno, as plainly as we say in English, Thou shalt not leave my soul in hell. Thus the Prophet David spake it in the Hebrew▪ Psal. 15. Thus the Septuaginta uttered it in Greek, thus the Apostle S. Peter allegeth it, thus the holy Evangelist S. Luke in the Acts of the Apostles, cap. 2. recordeth it, and for this, S. Augustine calleth him an infidel that denieth it: yet all this would not suffice to make Beza translate it so, because of certain errors ( as he heretically termeth them) which he would full gladly avoid hereby, namely the Catholic true doctrine of limbus patrum, and Purgatory. What need we say more? he translateth animam, a Carcase: (so calling our Savior Christ's body, irreverently, and wickedly) he translateth infernum, grave.
FULK. 2. That many of the Christian fathers held this error, that the godly of the Old Testament were not in heaven before Christ's death, it is no cause why we should be afraid to confess the truth, revealed to us out of the holy Scriptures, to the glory of God. And if the wrong or ambiguous translation of one Hebrew word Sheol, deceived them, that were for the most parte ignorant of the Hebrew tongue, what reason were it that we should not in translation reform that error? But as for Beza's first translation of the Greek word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 dead body, and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 grave, I have answered at large, Cap. 1. sect. 31. where also it is shown howe vainly you take hold of the English word carcase, to charge Beza with irreverent calling of our Savior Christ's body, when it was dead, because he calleth it in Latin Cadauer.
MART. 3. Neede we take any great labor to prove this to be a foul corruption, or that it is done purposely, whē he confesseth that he thus translateth because else it would serve the Papists? Which is as much to say, as, the word of God if it be truly and sincerely translated, maketh in deed for them. For the first part, we will not stand upon it, partly because it is of it self most absurd, and they are ashamed of it: partly because it shall susfise to confute Beza, that two other as famous heretics as he, Castalio and Flaccus Illyricus write against him in this point, and confute him: partly also, because we speak not here universally of all heretical translations, but of the English corruptions specially, & therefore we may only note here, how gladly they also would say somewhat else for, soul, even in the text, if they durst for shame: for in the margent of that English translation, they say, or life, or person: thereby advertising the Reader, that he may read thus, if it please him, Thou shalt not leave my life in the grave, or, Thou shalt not leave my person. As though either man's soul or life were in the grave, or, anima, might be translated person, which the self same English Bible doeth not, no not in those places where it is evident that it signifieth the whole person. For though this word soul, by a figure, is sometime taken for the whole man, yet even there they do not, nor must not translate it otherwise than soul: beause our tongue beareth that figure as well as Latin, Greek, or Hebrew: but here, where it cannot signify the whole person, it is wicked to translate it so.
FULK. 3. If you take more labor than you are well able to bear, yet shall you prove it no heretical corruption. As Castaleo, and Illyricus, the one an heretic, the other a schismatic, have inueyed against Beza, so hath he sufficiently confuted them. But to our English translation, where in the margent, they say, life, or person, when in the text they say soul: what doeth this offend you? They render the usual English word for the Greke word, but they admonish the reader, that the word soul in this place signifieth not the soul separated from the body▪ but either the life, or the whole person. Because that although the body only be laid in the grave▪ yet according to vulgar speech and sense, the whole man is said to be buried, and his life seemeth to be enclosed in the grave, according to which popular and human conceit, the Prophet in that Psalm speaketh, as appeareth in the later parte of that verse, which is all one in sense with the former. Neither wilt thou give thy holy one to see corruption: where corruption which is proper only to the body is there spoken generally of the whole man. If this expositiō please you not, yet you have no cause to find fault with the translation, which in that place is according to the common and ordinary signification of the Greek word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , soul. Which as it is sometime taken for the whole person, as you note, Act. 7. 14. So is it here, as the later parte of the verse doth most plainly declare.
MART. 4. But as for the word grave, that they put boldly in the text, to signify that howsoever you interpret, soul, or whatsoever you put for it, it is not meant according to S. Augustine and the faith of the whole Catholic Church, that his soul descended into Hell, whiles his body was in the grave: but that his soul also, was in the grave, howsoever that is to be understood. So making it a certain and resolute conclusion, that the holy Scripture in this place speaketh not of Christ's being in Hell, but in the grave: and that according to his soul, or life, or person, or (as Beza will have it) His carcase or body: and so his soul in Hell, as the holy Scripture speaketh, shall be, his body in the grave, as Beza plainly speaketh, & the Bezites covertly insinuate: & white shall be black, and chaulke shall be cheese, and everything shall be anything that they will have it. And all this their evident false translation, must be to our miserable deceived poor souls, the holy Scripture and God's word.
FULK. 4. The Greek word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 well beareth to be translated in some places a grave, & here the later part of the verse, speaketh of corruption, which cannot be understood to be but in the grave, & so doth S. Peter understand it, saying▪ that David the Patriarch died and was buried, and his sepulcher remaineth with us unto this day: and S. Paul upon the same verse of the Psalm saith, he saw corruption. Both the Apostles therefore interpreting this verse of the resurrection of Christ, we think it in deed a resolute conclusion, that the Scripture in this place, speaketh not of Christ's being in hell, which we acknowledge in the article of our Creed, but of his burial and resurrection. Your trifling of white and black, chaulke and cheese, may seem pleasant Rhetoric to gross ears, whom you seek to fill with such vanities. But the wiser sort, that are acquainted with figurative speeches, will think it nothing strange, if words be not always taken in their usual & proper signification. That the Hebrew word Nephesh, which the Prophet in that verse of the Psalm useth, is taken diverse times in the Scripture for a dead body, I have before proved more plainly, than ever you shall be able to deny: where you may, if you be disposed to sport yourself, use your figurative comparison of white & black, chaulke & cheese, but you shall sooner of white make black, of chaulke cheese, than you can possibly avoid the clear light of those texts, which was seen even of your own vulgar Latin interpretours.
MART. 5. Where we cannot but marvel, why they are afraid to translate the words plainly in this place, of his soul being in Hell: Whereas in the Creed they admit the words, and interpret them, that by suffering Hell pains upon the Cross, so he descended into Hell, and no otherwise. Why did they not here also keep the words for the credit of their translation, and afterward (if they would needs) give them that gloss for maintenance of their heresy? This mystery we know not, and would gladly learn it of the Puritan Calvinists, whose English translation perhaps this is. For, the grosser Calvinists (being not so pure and precise in following Calvin as the Puritans be, that have well deserved that name above their fellows) they in their other English Bibles have in this place discharged them selves of false translation, saying plainly. Thou shalt not leave my soul in Hell. But in what sense they say so, it is very hard to guess: and perhaps them selves can not tell yet what to make of it, as appeareth by M. Whitaker's answer to F. Campion. And he is now called a Bishop among them, and proceeded Doctor in Oxford, that could not obtain his grace to proceed Doctor in Cambridge, because he preached Christ's descending into hell, and the Puritans in their second admonition to the Parliament, pag. 43. cry out against the politic Calvinists, for that in the Creed of the Apostles (made in English meeter, and song openly in their Churches, in these words: His spirit did after this descend, into the lower partes, to them that long in darkness were, the true light of their hearts, ) they favor his descending into Hell very much, and so consequently may thereby build Limbus Patrum, and Purgatory. And the Puritans in their second reply against M. Whitgifts defense, pag. 7. reprehend one of their chiefest Caluinisticall martyrs, for affirming (as they term it) a gross descending of our Savior Christ into Hell. Thus the Puritans confess plainly their heretical doctrine, against Christ's descending into Hell.
FULK. 5. By confessing in our Creed, that Christ descended into hell, you might know, but that you had rather be ignorant, that you might marvel still, that we purposed not in translating this place, to deny that article, as you falsely slander us: but because this place might seem unto the ignorant, to confirm the error of Christ's descending into Limbus patrum, as it doth not, if it be rightly understood, it was thought good of some translators, (that seeing this verse must have the same sense in the Greek Sermon of Peter, that it hath in the Hebrew Psalm of David, and the Greek word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , used by the Evangelist, in steed of the Hebrew word Sheol, may bear to signify a grave, as the Hebrew word doth moste usually,) by translating it the grave, to show that this verse in Greek, maketh no more for that error of descending into Limbus, than the same doth in Hebrew. As for your distinction of gross Calvinists and Puritans, it may be packed up among the rest of your quarrels, and slanders. What Master Whitaker hath written in his answer, to Frier Campion, he is able to explain unto you him self, if you do not understand him. That the Bishoppe of Saint Asaph did once favor your error in some parte, and for that was misliked of the University of Cambridge, it is as true, as that afterward reforming his judgment at Oxford, where he proceeded, he was also incorpored Doctor at Cambridge. The English meeter upon the Creed, except it be drawn to an allegory, in my judgment, cannot be defended, which judgment I declared openly at Paul's cross fourteen or fiueteene years ago. Master Latimers error of Christ suffering torments in hell, after his death, is justly reprehended, by whom soever it be. By all which, I know not what may be rightly gathered, but that we flatter not one another in errors, but if any among us be deceived, of what account or credit soever he be, we spare not to reprove his error, preferring God's truth before all worldly and private respects of friendship, countenance, credit, and whatsoever.
MART. 6. The truth is, howsoever the politic Calvinists speak, or write in this point, more plausibly and covertly to the people, and more agreeably to the article of our faith, than either Calvin, or their earnest brethren, the Puritans, do, which write and speak as fantastically and madly, as they think: yet neither do they believe this Article of the Apostles Creed, or interpret it, as the Catholic Church, and ancient holy fathers always have done, neither can it stand with their new profession so to do, or with their English translations in other places. It cannot stand with their profession: for then it would follow that the Patriarchs, and other just men of the old Testament, were in some third place of rest, called Abraham's bosom, or Limbus Patrum, till our Savior Christ descended thither, and delivered them from thence, which they deny in their doctrine, though they sing it in their meeters. Neither can it stand with their English translations: because in other places where the holy Scriptures evidently speak of such a place, calling it Hell, (because that was a common name for every place and state of souls departed, in the old Testament, till our Savior Christ, by his Resurrection and Ascension, had opened heaven) there, for Hell, they translate Grave.
FULK. 6. The truth is, howsoever you slander us with odious names of schism, and diverse interpretations, we all agree in the faith of that article, and in the true sense and meaning thereof. As also we consent against your errors of Limbus patrum, or any descending of Christ into that fantastical place. As for Abraham's bosom, we account it no place of descent, or going down, but of ascending, even the same that our Savior Christ upon the cross, called Paradise, Luc. 23. saying to the penitent thief, this day thou shalt be with me in Paradise, which of Saint Paul is called the third heaven, 2. Cor. 12. saying, that he was taken up into the third heaven, whether in the body, or out of the body, he knew not, (but he was taken up into Paradise, and there heard words that could not be uttered, which it is not lawful for a man to speak. And that Abraham's Bosom is a place far distant from hell, that only text where it is named, Luc. 16. doth evidently declare. First the Angels carry the soul of Lazarus into Abraham's bosom, he might as well have said Hell, if he had meant Hell. But Angels use not to go down into Hell. Secondly, it is a place of comfort, for Lazarus was there comforted. Thirdly, there is a great Chaos, which signifieth an infinite distance between Abraham and the riche glutton, which utterly overthroweth that dream of Limbus, which signifying a border or edge, supposeth that place to be hard adjoining to the place of torments. Last of all, if the Article of our faith had been of Limbus Patrum, or of Abraham's bosom, we should have been taught to say, he descended into Limbo patrum, or he descended into Abraham's bosom, which all Christian ears abhor to hear. The word Sheol used in the old Testament for a common receptacle of all the dead, signifieth properly a place to receive their bodies, and not their souls: and therefore most commonly in our translations, is called the grave.
MART. 7. As when Jacob saith, Descendam ad filium meum lugens in infernum: I will go down to my son into Hell, mourning: they translate, I will go down into the grave unto my son, mourning: as though Jacob thought, that his son Joseph had been buried in a grave, whereas Jacob thought, and said immediately before, as appeareth in the holy Scripture, that a wild beast had deucured him, and so could not be presumed to be in any grave: or as though, if Joseph had been in a grave, Jacob would have gone down to him into the same grave. For so the words must needs import, if they take grave properly: but if they take grave improperly, for the state of dead men, after this life, why do they call it grave, and not Hell, as the word is in Hebrew, Greek, and Latin? No doubt they do it, to make the ignorant Reader believe, that the Patriarch Jacob spake of his body only, to descend into the grave, to Joseph's body: for as concerning Jacob's soul, that was by their opinion, to ascend immediately after his death to heaven, and not to descend into the grave. But if Jacob were to ascend forthwith in soul, how could he say, as they translate, I will go down into the grave, unto my son? As if according to their opinion, he should say, My sons body is devoured of a beast, and his soul is gone up into heaven: well, I will go down to him into the grave.
FULK. 7. A proper quidditie you have found out of Jacob, supposing his son to be devoured of wild beasts: yet saith, I will go down unto him mourning, which you think cannot be into the grave, because he did not think he was buried. But you must remember, it is the common manner of speech, when men say in mourning, they will go to their friends departed, they mean, they will die, although their friends perhaps were drowned in the sea, or their bodies burned, or perhaps lie in desolate places unburied: So Jacob's descending to the grave, signifieth no more, but death, by which he knew he should be joined to his son in soul, though he were not in body. The name of grave is used, because it is usual, that dead men are buried, though it be not universal. And that the grave is taken commonly for death, it appeareth by that phrase, so often used in the Scriptures. He slept with his fathers. and was buried, which being spoken indifferently of good men, and evil, cannot be understood of one place of their souls, but of death, which is common to all, and is proper to the body, not unto the soul, for the souls of the departed sleep not. The like is to be said of the phrase used in Gen. of Ishmael, as well as of the godly Patriarchs, he was laid up to his people. And lest you should please yourself too much in your childish conceit of Joseph's being devoured, whereof yet his father was not certain. You shall hear howe Isydorus Clarius translateth the same place, in his Bible censured by the Deputies of Trent Council, Descendam ad filium meum, lugens in sepulchrum. I will go down to my son, mourning, into the grave. This is one of the places which he thought mere to be corrected, according to the Hebrew, and in other places, where he is content to use the old word Infernus, he signifieth in his notes, that he meaneth thereby Sepulchrum, the grave. And in deed this word Infernus signifieth generally any place beneath, as the Greek word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , which the Greek translators used for Sheol, the Hebrew word, signifieth a place that is dark, and obscure, where nothing can be seen, such as the grave or pit is in which the dead are laid, which therefore of Job is called the land of darkness, and the shadow of death.
MART. 8. Gentle Reader, that thou mayst the better conceive these absurdities, and the more detest their guileful corruptions, understand (as we began to tell thee before) that in the Old Testament, because there was yet no ascending into heaven, the way of the holies (as the Apostle in his epistle to the Hebrews speaketh) being not yet made open, because our savior Christ was to dedicate and begin the enteraunce in his own person, and by his passiō to open heaven: therefore (we say) in the Old Testament the common phrase of the holy Scripture is, even of the best men, as well as of others, that dying they went down ad inferos, or ad infernū: to signify that such was the state of the Old Testament before our savior Christ's Resurrection and Ascension, that every man went down, and not up: descended, and not ascended: by descending I mean not to the grave, which received their bodies only: but ad inferos, that is, to hell, a common receptacle or place for their souls also departed, as well of those souls that were to be in rest, as those that were to be in pains and torments. All the souls both good and bad that then died, went downward, and therefore the place of both sortes was called in all the tongues, by a word answereable to this word, hell, to signify a lower place beneath, not only of torments, but also of rest.
FULK. 8. Where you reason that there was no ascending into heaven, because the way of the holies was not yet made open, when the first tabernacle was standing, you abuse the Reader, and the Scripture. For the Apostles meaning is, in that verse, to show that to the great benefit of Christians, that first tabernacle is fallen, because that now we have more familiar access unto God, by Jesus Christ. For whereas the High Priest only, but once in the year, and then not without blood, entered into the second moste holy Tabernacle, because the way of the Holyes, that is unto the Holiest, or sancta sanctorum, was not then opened, now our Savior Christ having once entered into the holiest place, by his own blood, and found eternal redemption, we have by him without any ceremonies, sacrifices, or mediation of any mortal Priest, free access unto the throne of grace, even into the holy place, by the new and living way, which he hath prepared for us. But all this is to be understood of the clear revelation of the mercy of God in Christ, which was obscurely set forth unto the fathers of the old Testament, and not of the effect & fruit of his passion, which was the same for their salvation, that it is for ours. Neither have the souls of the faithful, since the coming of Christ, any other place of rest, than the fathers had before his incarnation, God providing most wisely, that they without all the rest of their brethren, that shall be unto the worlds ende, shall not be made perfect. And whereas you say, that all the souls of good and bad, then went downward, you are controlled by the wise man, Eccles. 3. Where he speaketh in the person of the carnal man, doubting of that which is not comprehended by reason, but beleened by faith: who knoweth whether the spirit of man ascend upward. And more plainly in the last chapter of that book, where he exhorteth to repentance, showing in the ende that though dust return to the earth from whence it was, yet the spirit returneth to God that gave it. It returneth to God therefore, it goeth not down. For who would abide to hear this speech, the souls of the faithful went downewarde to God, yea went into hell to God. Nay returned downward into hell to God that gave them. That common receptacle therefore of the dead was the receptacle of their bodies, which all first or last, returned to the earth from whence they were taken. And where you say that place was called in all tongues, by such a word, as signifieth a lower place beneath, it is true of the common receptacle of their bodies, but not of their souls. For the soul of Lazarus was not carried by the Angels into hell, but into Abraham's bosom, which was not only a place of rest, but also of joy, and comfort, contrary to torments: between which and hell, was an infinite distance. Who would call that a common receptacle, when there was an infinite distance, vnpassable from one to the other.
MART. 9. So we say in our Creed, that our savior Christ him self descended into hell, according to his soul: So S. Jerome speaking of the state of the Old Testament, saith: Si Abraham, Isaac, Jacob in inferno, quis in caelorum regno, that is, If Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were in hell, who was in the kingdom of heaven? And again, Ante Christum, Abraham apud inferos: post Christum, latro in Paradiso, that is, before the coming of Christ, Abraham was in hell: after his coming, the thief was in Paradise. And least a man might object, that Lazarus being in Abraham's bosom, saw the riche glott • n a far of in hell, and therefore both Abraham and Lazarus seem to have been in heaven: the said holy doctor resolveth it, that Abraham and Lazarus also were in hell, but in a place of great rest and refreshing, and therefore very far off from the miserable wretched glutton that lay in torments.
FULK. 9. We say in our Creed, that Christ descended into hell, which being an article of our faith, must have relation to such benefit, as we receive by his descending, namely, that thereby we are delivered from the pains of hell. But that he should descend into Limbus patrum, to fetch out the fathers, which before you said were in prison, now you say in rest, we neither say it in our Creed, neither doth it pertain unto us. But Jerome is cited as a favorer of your opinion, who, I confess in some parte held as you do, but not altogether. For thus he writeth in Epitaph. Nepos. After he hath given thanks to Christ for our redemption by his death.
MART. 10. His words be these in effect: If a man will say unto me, that Lazarus was seen in Abraham's bosom, and a place of refreshing even before Christ's coming: true it is, but what is that in comparison? Quid simile infernus & regna caelorum? What hath hell and heaven like? As if he should say, Abraham in deed and Lazarus (and consequently many other) were in place of rest, but yet in hell, till Christ came, and in such rest, as hath no comparison with the joys of heaven. And S. Augustine disputing this matter sometime, & doubting whether Abraham's bosom be called hell in the Scripture, and whether the name of hell be taken at any time in the good parte (for of Christ's descending into hell, and of a third place where the Patriarchs remained until Christ's coming, not heaven, but called Abraham's bosom: he doubted not, but was most assured) the same holy doctor in another place, as being better resolved, doubted not upon these words of the Psalm. Thou hast delivered my soul from the lower hell, to make this one good sense of this place, that the lower hell is it, wherein the damned are tormented▪ the higher hell is that, wherein the souls of the just rested, calling both places by the name of hell.
FULK. 10. I have set down his very words in deed, which being well weighed, make nothing so clearly for your phātasied Limbus, as you would have mē ween. You say Augustine doubteth whether Abraham's bosom, in the Scripture be called hell, Ep. 99. & de gen. ad lit. lib. 12. ca. 33. But there he doth utterly deny it, & in Ps. 85. as by his words cited before appeareth, he doubteth. So that where he flatly denieth, with you he doubteth, & where he doubteth, with you he is better resolved. Wherefore this matter of Abrahā, & the faithful being in hell, is no article of faith, except you will say that S. Augustine was not resolved in the articles of our faith, who touching the third place, whatsoever at diverse times he speaketh doubtingly in his Hypognosticon, he affirmeth resolutely, that he findeth in the scriptures, that there is none.
MART. 11. And surely of his marvelous humility and wisdom, he would have been much more resolute herein, if he had heard the opinion of S. Jerome, whom he often consulted in such questions, and of other fathers, who in this point speak most plainly, that Abraham's bosom or the place where the Patriarchs rested, was some part of hell. Tertullian, (Li. 4. adverse. Marcion.) Saith, I know that the bosom of Abraham was no heavenly place, but only the higher hell, or, the higher part of hell. Of which speech of the fathers, rose afterward that other name, Limbus patrum, that is the very brim or uppermost and outmost parte of hell, where the fathers of the old Testament rested. Thus we see that the Patriarchs themselves were as then in hell, though they were there in a place of rest: in so much that S. Jerome saith again, Ante Resurrectionem Christi notus in Judea Deus, & ipsi qui nouerant eum, tamen ad inferos trahebantur. that is, Before the Resurrection of Christ, God was known in Jury, and they themselves that knew him, yet were drawn unto hell. S. Chrysostom upon that place of Isaiah, I will break the brazen gates, and bruise the iron bars in pieces, and will open the treasures darkened, &c. So he calleth hell, saith he, for although it were hell, yet it held the holy souls, and precious vessels, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Mark that he saith, though it were hell, yet there were the just men at that time, till our savior Christ came to deliver them from thence.
FULK. 11. As wise & humble as he was, he was not ready to yield to every opinion of Jerome, as his Epistles writ̄ to Jerome do declare. Neither was Jerome sore solute in this matter, whereof he speaketh under a cloud▪ and in an Allegory, as it is plain, where he saith the bodies that were raised at the resurrection of Christ, were seen in the heavenly Jerusalem, whereas it is certain they were seen only in the earthly Jerusalem actually. But he meaneth, the effect of Christ's redemption, was acknowledged either in the Catholic Church, which is Jerusalem above in one sense, or else that they shall be seen in the new Jerusalem & blessed felicity of the godly at the worlds end: whereof a testimony was given in that sight of their appearing and particular resurrection known at Jerusalem on earth. But you cite another place out of Tertullian lib. 4. aduersus Marcionē, and in the margent you say, Loco citato, but I wote not where. And these be Tertullian's words, if you be an honest man. I know that the bosom of Abraham was no heavenly place, but only the higher hell, or the higher parte of hell. I see you will be as bold with the ancient doctors works, as you are with my poor writings, whom you make to say even what you list. In the last Section before you said S. Augustine Epistol. 99. & de gen. ad lit. Lib. 12. Cap. 33.
MART. 12. Therefore did Jacob say, I will go down to my son unto Hell. And again he saith: If any misfortune happen to (Benjamin) by the way, you shall bring my gray head with sorrow unto Hell, which is repeated again twice in the Chapter 44. by which phrase the holy Scripture will signify, not only death, but also the descending at that time of all sortes of souls into hell, both good and bad. And therefore it is spoken of all sortes in the holy scripture, both of good and of bad. For all went then into hell, but some into a place there, of rest, others into other places there, of torments. And therefore S. Jerome saith, speaking of hell, according to the old Testament, Hell is a place wherein souls are included: either in rest, or in pains, according to the quality of their deserts.
FULK. 12. Jacob said he would be joined to his son by death, as in the other text you bring, it is more manifest, than the Sun at noon days. For Jacob speaking of his graye head, must needs mean of his body, and therefore of the grave, and not of Hell. So in the 3. Reg. 2. which you quote, David chargeth Solomon, that he suffer not the gray head of Joab, to go down to the grave in peace, and that he shall cause the hoary head of Shimei to go down to the grave with blood, which by no means can be understood of his soul going to hell, which goeth not with blood, although it is plain enough by the word hoary head, that he meaneth his body in age, or his old body. And this text Pagnine, in his Dictionarie, thought necessary to be understood of the grave, although he make the word Sheol indifferent to signify Hell, and the Grave. That all went to Hell, some to rest, and some to torments, it was first devised by Marcion, the Heretike. But Saint Jerome is once again cited in Oseam cap. 13. where he saith, that Hell is a place wherein souls are included, &c. by which you see that he speaketh not of Limbus, wherein souls were included before Christ, but of such a place wherein they are now included, taking the word Infernus, generally for any place▪ that receiveth the souls of the departed, as he saith most plainly him self, in the same place: Quicquid igitur separate sratres, infernus est appellandus. Whatsoever doth separate brethren▪ is to be called hell. Augustine is quoted, to multiply a lie, and for nothing else, as I have shown before.
MART. 13. And in this sense it is also often said in the holy Scriptures, that such and such were gathered, or laid • o their fathers though they were buried in diverse places, and died no: in the same state of salvation, or damnation: In that sense Samuel being raised up, to speak with Saul, said, To morrow thou and thy sons shall be with me. That is, dead, and in hell, though not in the same place or state there: in this sense all such places of the holy Scripture as have the word Inferi, or Infernus, correspondent both to the Greek and Hebrew, ought to be, and may be most conveniently translated by the word, Hel. As when it is said, Thou hast delivered my soul from the lower hell, Psal. 85. v. 13. that is, as S. Augustine expoundeth it, Thou hast preserved me from mortal sins, that would have brought me into the lower hell, which is for the damned. Which place of holy Scripture, and the like, when they translate grave, s • e how miserably i • soundeth: Thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest grave. Which they would never say for very shame, but that they are afraid to say in any place (be the holy Scriptures never so plain) that any soul was delivered or returned from hell, lest thereof it might follow by and by, that the Patriarchs, and our Savior Christ, were in such a Hell.
FULK. 13. That which is spoken indifferently of the elect, and reprobate, must needs be understood of that which is common to both, that is, corporal death. How can it be verified of their souls, that they were laid to the fathers, when between the godly, and the wicked, there is an infinite distance: but the earth, the grave, or pit▪ is a common receptacle of all dead bodies. That Samuel, which being raised up, spake to Saul▪ might truly say of his soul, though not of all his sons, that he should be with him in hell, for it was the spirit of Satan, and not of Samuel, although counterfeiting Samuel, he might speak of the death of Saul, and▪his sons. As for that verse of the eighty and five Psalm, whereupon you do falsely so often allege S. Augustine's resolution, what absurdity hath it, to translate it, from the lowest grave, or from the bottom of the grave: whereby David meaneth extreme danger of death, that he was in, by the malice of his persecuting enemies Saul and his complices. But we are afraid to say in any place, that any soul was delivered and returned from hell. We say that the souls of all▪ the faithful, are delivered from hell: but of any which after death is condemned to hell, we acknowledge no return. And these words are spoken by David while he lived, and praised God, for his deliverance, which might be not only from the grave, but also from hell, saving that here he speaketh of his preservation from death.
MART. 14. And that this is their fear, it is evident, because that in all other places where it is plain that the holy scriptures speak of the hell of the damned, from whence is no return, they translate there the very same word Hell▪ and not grave. As for example, The way of life is on high to the prudent, to avoid from Hell beneath. Loe, here that is translated Hell beneath, which before was translated the lowest grave. And again, Hell, and destruction are before the Lord, howe much more the harts of the sons of men? But when in the holy Scriptures there is mention of delivery of a soul from Hell, then thus they translate: God shall deliver my soul from the power of the grave: for he will receive me. Can you tell what they would say? doeth God deliver them from the grave, or from temporal death, whom he receiveth to his mercy? or hath the grave any power over the soul? Again when they say, What man liveth and shall not see death? shall he deli • er his soul from the hand of the grave?
FULK. 14. I have shown before diverse times, that although the Hebrew word Sheol do properly signify a receptacle of the bodies after death, yet when mention is of the wicked, by consequence it may signify hell, as the day signifieth light, the night darkness, fire heat, peace signifieth prosperity, and an hundredth such like speeches. But where you say that Prouerb. 15. v. 24. that is translated hell beneath, which before was translated the lowest grave, Psalm. 85. v. 13. You say untruly, for although in both places there is the word Sheol, yet in that Psalm there is Tachtyah, in the Proverbs Mattah, for which if it were translated the grave, that declineth, or is downewarde, it were no inconvenience. In the other texts, you trifle upon the word soul, whereas the Hebrew word signifieth not the reasonable soul, which is separable from the body, but the life, or the whole person of man, which may rightly be said, to be delivered from the hand or power of the grave, as the verse. 48. doth plainly declare, when in the later parte is repeated, the sense of the former, as it is in many places of the Psalms.
MART. 15. If th • y take grave properly, where man's body is buried: it is not true either that every soul, yea or everybody is buried in a grave. But if in all such places, they will say they mean nothing else but to signify death, and that to go down into the grave, and to die, is all one: we ask them why they follow no • the words of the holy Scripture to signify the same thing, which call it, going down to Hell, not going down to the grave? Here they must needs open the mystery of Antichrist working in their translations, and say, that so they should make Hell a common place to all that departed in the old Testament, which they will not▪ no no • in the most important places of our belief concerning our Savior Christ's descending into Hell, and triumphing over the same. Yea, therefore of purpose they will not, only for to defeat that parte of our Christian Creed.
FULK. 15. We cannot always take the word grave properly, when the Scripture useth it figuratively. But if we say, to go down to the grave, and to die is all one, you ask us why we follow not the words of the holy Scripture. I answer, we do, for the Scripture calleth it grave. and not hell. Where is then your vain clattering of the mystery of Antichrist, that we must open? Because we will not acknowledge that heretical common place, invented by Marcion the heretic, we purpose to defeat the article of Christ's descending into hell. A monstrous slander, when we do openly confess it, and his triumphing over hell in more triumphant manner than you determine it. For if he descended into that hell only, in which were the souls of the faithful, which was a place of rest, of comfort, of joy, and felicity, what triumph was it to overcome such an hell, which if you take away the hateful name of hell by your own description, will prove rather an heaven than an hell. But we believe that he triumphed over the hell of the damned, and over all the power of darkness, which he subdued by the virtue of his obedience and sacrifice. so that it should never be able to claim or hold any of his elect, whom he had redeemed.
MART. 16. As when the Prophet first, Osee. 13. and afterward the Apostle, 1. Cor. 15. in the Greek, s • y thus▪ Ero mors tua ô mors, morsus tuus ero inferne. Vbi est, mors stimulus tuus? vbi est, inferne, victoria tua? O death, I will be thy death: I will be thy sting▪ ô Hell. Where is, ô death, thy sting? where is, ô hell, thy victory? They translate in both places, O grave, in steed of, ô Hel. What else can be their meaning hereby, but to draw the Reader from the common sense of our Savior Christ's descending into hell, & conquering the same, and bringing out the fathers and just men triumphantly from thence into heaven? which sense hath always been the common sense of the Catholic church & holy Doctors, specially upon this place of the Prophet. And what a kind of speech is this, and out of all tune, to make our Savior Christ say, O grave I will be thy destruction? as though he had triumphed over the grave, & not over hell: or over the grave, that is, over death: and so the Prophet should say death twice, and Hell not at all.
FULK. 16. S. Jerome whom you quote in the margent, to prove that all the Catholic Doctors understood this text of Osee, of Christ's descending into hell, and thereby reprove our translation, which for hell saith grave, after he hath repeated the words of the Apostle 1. Cor. 15. upon this text, thus he concludeth. Itaque quod ill in resurrectionem interpretatus est Domini, no • aliter interpretari nec possumus nec audemus. Therefore that which the Apostle hath interpreted of our Lord's resurrection, we neither can, nor dare interpret otherwise. You see therefore by Jerome's judgment, that in this text, which is proper of Christ's resurrection, it is more proper to use the word of grave, than of hell. How vainly the same Jerome interpreteth the last words of this chapter, of spoiling the treasure of every vessel that is desirable▪ of Christ's delivering out of hell the most precious vessels of the Saints, &c. I am not ignorant, but we speak of translation of the 14. verse, which being understood of Christ's resurrection, it argueth, that the grave is spoken of, rather than hell. As for the repetition of one thing twice for vehemency, and certainties sake, is no inconvenient thing, but commonly used in the Scriptures.
MART. 17. Why, my Masters, you that are so wonderful precise translatoures, admit that our savior Christ descended not into Hel beneath, as you say, yet I think you will grant that he triumphed over Hell, and was conquerer of the same. Why then did it not please you to suffer the Prophet to say so at the least, rather than that he had conquest only of death and the grave? You abuse your ignorant reader very impudently, & your own selves very damnably, not only in this, but in that you make grave, and death, all one, and so where the holy Scripture often joineth together death and Hell▪