Defense of the Churches and Ministry of England

Fr. IOHNSON.

In our former answer to this argument, we omitted the proposition, not because of the certainty of it every way (as the Replier dreameth) but until we might see by his defense of the assumption how to take it, as thē we noted. Now therefore (having seen in his reply the unlearned, ungodly, and unconscionable pretences, by which he would seem to defend the Assumption, when in deed he doth nothing else but cast a miste before the eyes of the simple): we give him to understand, that the whole argument is lame and faulty in every parte thereof. The Proposition is not absolutely true, as it appeareth he understandeth it, by his defense of the Assumption. The Assumption is not only false, as we proved in our former answer, but also lacketh a foot whereon it should go, if it were perfect and entier.

For whereas in the Proposition, mention is made, not only of the making of a true Christian, but also of a company so gathered together: he should (in the Assumption, if he would have had it sound and perfect) not only have assumed, that the doctrine &c. is sufficient to make a true Christian: but have added also, that their assemblies be cōpanies so gathered together. Which being not done, both the Assumption wanteth one of the feet, and the conclusion inserreth more then was in the premisses, and so the whole silogisme is faulty and disfigured.

Thus might we, without any further answer, return this argument to the first framers of it, to be better fashioned: Yet in hope, that they may be brought (through the blessing of God) to receive the love of the truth, that they may be saved, and with their gifts no more to plead for, and deck the whore of Babylon, & to help forward the building & beautifying of Zion, we will more particularly lay open to them, the weakness of this his reply.

And first, whereas he affirmeth, that the Proposition is most certain, & yet in his defense of the Assumption, he declareth, that he so taketh it, as whatsoever amongst them, be jointly together held, and joined with that, which otherwise might make a ture Christian, or a true Church: yet notwithstanding, they are so to be reputed, as if there were no such additions or commixtures: we answer that in this sense, the Proposition neither is, nor can be absolutely true, as it ought to be, if they would have their argument good. For who knoweth not, that such things may be joined with Christ, as abolish from Christ. And again, that Christ and Antichrist cannot accord together. Either therefore the Proposition is not general, but admitteth limitations, and then is not the Argument good: Or if it be general, without any limitation, so as whatsoever be added too (or cōmingled with) that which otherwise might make a true Christian, or a true Church, yet it hindereth nothing at all: Thē is it not absolutely true in such understanding, as may appear by the former exceptions, & diverse other that might be alleged.

Next touching the Assumption, besides that it is lame, as before is shown, it is also untrue, as in our former answer appeareth. Some balm in deed this man bringeth to cure it: but it hath no other effect, save only to manifest to us so much the more, that the soar of their Assemblies cannot be healed. In our former answer, we first took 3. Exceptions against them, comparing together their profession and practice, then we alleged 9. Reasons, directly concluding the falsehood of the Assumption.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 1. Excep.

HOw fit or unfit the said description of a visible Church (mentioned in the 19. Article of the said book) is, we neither did, nor do examine. Only because this is their own profession, and we see their practice is contrary unto it, we did therefore from hence take our first exception, requiring of them, to show their assemblies to be such, or else to know, that their own description, is a witness against themselves.

Now in their reply, have they according to the particulars of that description, justified their Church-assemblies? nothing less. Let this therefore be first observed. But what then have they donne? Surely this. First pretending as if they repeated our exception, and their own description, they leave out diverse perticulers, of special moment there expressed, as first, where the visible Church is described, to be a congregation of faithful men, they leave out these words (of faithful men) belike knowing that their Congregations, which are holds of all foul spirits, and cages of every unclean and hateful bird, cannot therefore justly be accounted congregations of faithful men. Secondly, where the description speaketh, that the Sacraments be duly ministered: they leave out the word (duly:) because it crosseth their women's Baptism, private Communion, receiving of the most profane and their seed, &c. Lastly, where in the description it is reqaired, both for preaching the pure word and due administration of the Sacraments, that they be donne according to Christ's ordinance: they leave out altogether these words (according to Christ's ordinance:) belike because this clause quite overthroweth both their Antichristian Prelacy, from which all the inferior Ministers amongst them receive power and authority to preach, and minister the Sacraments, and their Priesthood and Deaconery, wherein they all administer, and their stinted imposed prayers, exhortations, crosses on the forehead, questiones to the infantes, use of the same words in English in ministering the Lord's supper, which the papists used and still use in Latin, not retaining the words of Christ's institution, and such like.

Now thus having left out such perticulers as were of spetiall moment against them, they next demand wherein their practice is contrary to their profession, and description of a visible Church, in what things that of necessity are requisite? We answer, in all the particulars of that description aforesaid.

For first, their Church-assemblies, are not congregations of faithful men, but a confusion of all manner of people though never so wicked and profane. The Prelates and Formalistes affirm, that their Church is full of Atheists, Papists, Idolaters, Drunkards, Whoremōgers, & such like. The forward Preachers likewise aver, that in their church are swarms of Atheists, Idolaters, Papists, erroneous & heretical sectaries, Witches, Charmers, Sorcerers, Murderers, Thieves, Adulterers, Liars, &c. Finally, that a mā may be anything amongst thē, saving a sound Christian. These things being so, as both their estate and writings bear witness: let themselves judge, whether their Assemblies can be accounted Congregations of faithful men, or no: which is the first point of the description aforesaid.

Secondly, in the same description is required, That the pure word of God be preached, according to Christ's ordinance. But amongst them, are allowed besides the word of God, the Apocrypha books: and instead of preaching the word, the reading of Homilies: as may appear in that book of Articles alleged by themselves. Yet who knoweth not, that in those books, are diverse untruths, errors, contradictions, blasphemies, and such like? So far are they from being the pure word of God, or agreeing therewith. Moreover, when and where the word is preached among them, it is done by virtue of a false office and calling, never appointed by Christ. And the Ministers that preach it, do in their constitution stand always subject, to be silenced, suspended, excommunicated, and degraded by the Prelates and Ordinaries, to whom (when they are made Priests,) they promise, and (when they enter upon a benefice) they swear, Canonical obedience. Neither are they suffered any further to preach the word, and truth of God, then agreeth with the Articles, Injunctions, aduerticements, and caveats, in that behalf provided. If any preach the word of God any further, they are subject to be silenced, banished, & put to death. That these things accord with the ordinance of Christ, or with their own description of a visible Church, we suppose themselves will not for shame affirm it.

Lastly, in their description it is required, That the Sacraments be duly ministered, according to the ordinance of Christ, in all things, that of necessity are requisite to the same. Now by the ordinance of Christ, in the administration of the Sacraments, there are necessarily required 1. A lawful Minister. 2. A lawful people. And thirdly, A lawful administration, according to the Testament of Christ: In all which, their practice is conerarie to the ordinance of Christ, and their own description aforesaid. Their Ministers all of them are either Prelates, Priests, or Deacons (which amongst them is a step to the Priesthood:) none of which Christ hath ordained in his Testament for the work of his ministry. Their people are not separated from the world, but stand in confusion with it, and in subjection to the Antichristian Prelates and Prelacie: And therefore cannot be deemed a true church of God, & the people of Christ, unto whom in such estate the Sacraments (which are seals of the covenant of grace) do appertain, and may be administered. Finally, their administration is acçording to the inventions and precepts of man, with stinted prayers, exhortations, Epistles and Gospels: and besides those in Baptism, crossing on the forehead, & questions to the infant: in the Lord's supper, translating, and using out of the Mass book, other words then the words of Christ's institution, and such like, as may be seen at large in their book of common prayer, which is picked and culled out of the Mass book, full of all abominations, as themselves have published heretofore.

These things we have ben forced thus to mention at large, both because they twice demand (as if they knew not themselves) wherein their practice is contrary to that description aforesaid: and because they blush not to affirm, that all the Christian world seeth and confesseth their practice to be aggreeable to their profeession in that book. Whereas the contrary is most true.

Touching which, what themselves have heretofore written to the contrary: See in the Admonitions to the Parleament, Replyes of T. C. against D. Whitguift, Demonstration of Discipline, &c, And what the reformed Churches profess to the contrary: see in the French, Belgic, and Heluetian Churches, and in the Harmonie of confessions, Sect. 10. & 11. which would be too long to set down at large in this place: Neither is it needful, seeing it is most evident in the books and places alleged, whether we refer the Reader.

Thus also it appeared, what just cause we had, to put them to prove their assemblies, to be such, as themselves describe visible Churches to be: Which, seeing they have not yet done, and seeing their practice is contrary to their profession, as now (at their request) we have shown in the perticulers aforesaid: If they still be minded as before, we do also still ask, where and what are their proofs, touching the perticulers mentioned in their own description of a visible Church.

Their similitude of a Landlord and Tennaunt, is against themselves, so wortthy and Clercklike is their reply. If any have usurped, or otherwise made a false clame never so long, to a piece of land or other possession: may they not justly be called upon to show their title & bring fourth their evidence? Let the Judges givē sentence. If I deny their clame and title to be such, let him show their evidence from the Apostles writings: Let us from thence see their evidence for the offices of Archbs., Lordbs., Suffraganas, Archdeacons, Chauncelers, Commissaries, Officials, Priests, Parsons, Uicars, Cnraets, &c: For their entrance into their Offices, according to their Cannons, and Book of ordering Priests and Deacons, and of consecrating Archbishops and Bishops: For their administration by their stinted imposed Liturgy, and by their Popish Cannons, Officers and proceedings: For their Churching of women, praying over the dead, Holy days to Saints and Angels, Fastes on their Eaues, &c. For their maintenance by Tythes, Chrisomes, Offerings, &c. For their confused communion of all sortes of people, though never so wicked, in the body of their Church, &c. Let them (I say) show us evidence for those, from the Apostles writings, if they deny their claim to be such, as we have noted. Otherwise if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them, neither any right to that they challendge.

Where they say, we held part of their possession with thē heretofore: If they mean, that we with them received the beasts mark, and drunk of the cup of Babels abominations, we deny it not: but acknowledge God's mercy, that passing over our sins, hath given us grace and strength at his commandment, to forsake that way of Antichrist, and to come out of that spiritual Babylon, to salvation of our souls, which mercy we wish also unto these men, that so being saved from this froward generatiō, they may become the sons and daughters of the Lord almighty in Christ our Savior.

Touching their Article, Preaching, Sacraments, Ministration, &c. enough is said before. Only where they say, they see not themselves wherein they fail, touching Preaching or Sacraments, in things necessary, It is too impudent untruth, as their former writings do and will always testify to their faces, which we will not stand here to relate. That shall suffice which we have touched before, which till it be answered, it will be found that our first exception hath both reason and weight in it whatsoeuerthey do or can pretend to the contrary.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 2. Excep.

COncerning our Second Exception, it was propounded by way of demand, requiring that they would show us, if they held Jesus Christ to be the Prophet, Priest, & King of his Church, to be obeyed in his own ordinances only and in no other, howe then their practice agreeth with this profession. One would have thought that here it had been good and needful (if they could) to have cleared this point by the Scriptures and the Testament of Christ, and from thence to have manifested, that their Ministry, worship, ministration, government, &c. which are called in questiō, are no other then the Lord Jesus Christ, (that Prophet, Priest and King of his Church) hath in his Testament given and appointed thereunto. And have they not done this? Surely no. What then do they say? First they tell us, That touching this point, their profession and practice now is so as before time it was with M. Cranmer, Ridley, Latimer and their Cogregations. But what of this? Can the persons or age of thes whom he nameth, nay can any person or ages prejudice the truth? Were not they subject to error at all? or must their errors bind us: Did not John Hus (that worthy champion of Christ) and others also of the Martyrs in former times, say and hear Mass, even to their dying day, not seeing the abomin ations thereof? And did not diverse of thē acknowledge, some the Popes calling and Supremacy, some 7. Sacraments, some Purgatory, some Auricular confession, and such like grievous errors, &c, And yet notwithstanding died most constantly for the truths which they saw and testified, some for one, and some for another, as God manifested the truth unto them: As may be seen at large in their several Histories in the Acts and Monumentes, whether we refer the Reader. But may we now so profess and practice in these things as they did? Or if we should, were their ignorance and errors a sufficient defense for us? yet thus would this man bear us in hand. But moreover, let him tell us, if Master Latimer and others, did not forsake the Prelacie and functions they had before-time received? And Master Ridley at his death repent that he had been so earnest for the remnantes of Popery in his time retained? Besides also, who knoweth not, that when Master Cranmer, Ridley, Latimer, &c. died Martyrs for the truth of Christ, they neither had them selves, nor joined in spiritual communion with such as had the Prelacie and Manisterie now pleaded for? And not that only, but were also members of that persecuted church in Queen Mary's days, which was separated from the rest of the Lande, as from the world, and joined in covenant, by voluntary profession, to obey the truth of Christ, and to witness against the abominations of Antichrist, As they also did even unto death, in the truth which they saw, though otherwise being but as it were in the twilight of the Gospel they had their wants and errors. Yet who is so blind or besotted, as not to see that their errors may not be our rules, neither can be our warrant, but rather that we ought after their example, faithfully to stand, in, and for, what so ever truth God revealeth unto us by his word, And that otherwise, those holy Martyrs should rise in judgment against all such, as either withhould the truth in unrighteousness, or in any respect refuse to walk therein. Finally, seeing GOD hath given us his word, to be the light of our feet, and rule of our lives and religion: What mean these men to lead us from it, to the aberrations of any men whatsoever? Should not all people inquire at God, or would they have us go from the living to the dead? From God and his word to men and their errors? Doubtless this is that whereunto they would bring us, and whereby they mislead their followers, as will yet further appear by that which followeth. For what say they next?

Secondly, they tell us, and they wish it to be noted, (as we also do) That Christ's ordinances be of two sortes, either written or unwritten: the first necessary: the second arbitrary: the first touching doctrine, that is, touching faith and the inward opinion only: these (say they) are written: the second touching outward orders in the Church, and all outward gōuernement, and ceremonies: These, they say, are not written, but arbitrary at the appointment of the Church and Magistrate. Thus (they say) they hold and practice, and think no Scripture is against it.

[ 1] In answer whereof, First we ask what scripture they have for this? [ 2] Secondly, we allege against it, the scriptures quoted in the margent, whereunto many other might be added. [ 3] Thirdly, let it be observed, that them selves here grant and cannot deny, but all the outward government and ceremonies of their Church, are invented and arbitrary at the pleasure of man, and not written in the word of God. Wherevpon it followeth, that they are none of Christ's, and therefore not to be joined unto in the worship of God, as afterwards more fully will appear. [ 4] Fourthly, see howe near they are driven that are glad to run back into the Papists tents, where yet they know there is no succor. Before they pleaded possession time out of mind: now they tell us of ordinances unwritten, &c. are not these mere popish shifts, even the old worn arguments of antiquity and unwritten verities, so often and so much stood upon by the Papists? Alas that these men should plead to be true Christians, and ye thus openly take parte with Antichrist! What shall we say to these things? Surely God is just and will verify his word, where he saith, "That they which receive not the love of the truth, that they may be saved, he will send them strong delusions, to believe lies, that they may be damned. [ 5] Fifthly, note howe he maketh the ordinances touching outward government and ceremonies, to be no matters of faith, neither writ̄ at all. Surelie this is strange divinity. It is an ordinance not only concerning the inward, but also the outward government of the Church, that Christ is Lord and King thereof: It is therefore no matter of faith? It concerneth the outward government, whether the Pope be (under Christ) head of the church or no? Doeth it not therefore concern faith? Public prayer, preaching of the Word, and hearing of it preached, administration and receiving of the Sacraments, are matters concerning the outward government and orders of the Church: do they not therefore touch faith? Admonition and exhortation concern also the outward government of the Church, do they not therefore concern faith? Finally, by this divinity, the Sacraments of Baptism and of the Lord's supper, being ceremonies, shall be no matters of faith at all amongst them.

But here they stay not, but add moreover, That the outward orders, government, and ceremonies of the Church, be arbitrary at the appointment of the Church and Magistrate, and not certain nor written in the book of God. Whervpon it followeth, that it is not certain nor taught in the scriptures, but arbitrary at the Churches & Magistrates pleasure: Whether Christ, or the Pope of Rome or of Cāterburie, be head and Archbishop of the Church of God: Whether Jews only of the tribe of Levi, may now minister the holy things of God in his Church: Whether Christ have given any gifts, and set any offices in his Church for the Ministry and guidance thereof: Whether prayer must be in a known or unknown tongue: Whether the teaching and ruling Elders be to be had and honored: Whether the church may excommunicate: Whether the Popes, or any other Prelates excommunication be to be regarded: Whether there be two, or three, or seven Sacraments: Whether the Passover, Circumcision, and other ceremonies and sacrifices of the Law, be now to be used: Whether the Heathenishe sacrifices and worship be to be joined withal: Whether cream, oil, salt, spitle, crossing and conjuring, be to be used in Baptism: Whether the bread only and not the cup, is to be given to the lay people (as they call them:) Whether holy water, holy ashes, holy palms and such like, be of the holy things of the church: Whether the Jewish and Popish vestimentes, fasts, and holy days are to be observed: and a thousand such like, which are all of them, concerning the outward orders, government, and ceremonies of the Church. By these men's Divinity, these and infinite such like, are unwritten and vncerten, but left only to the pleasure of the Church and Magistrate. Moreover, if it please them, the Princes and civil Magistrates may them selves be the public ministers of the word, Sacraments, and censures of the Church: any that will may without a calling take upon him to be a public officer in the church: Women may baptize, or administer the Lord's supper: The Jewishe, Romish, or Heathenish priesthood may be retained: Auricular confession may be used: The Keys of the kingdom of heaven, may be appropriated to the Pope of Rome, or the Prelate of Canterbury, or any other whom soever: The Prelates and their Officials excommunications do bind in heaven: The Apochriphall books and Decretal epistles are canonical scriptures: The Papes Portuis and the English book of prayer taken out of it, are the true and lawful worship of God: The Prelates and Priests are the true and lawful Ministers of God: Orders, penance, extreme unction, matrimony, &c. are the Sacraments of the Church: Cap, Surplis, Cope, Tippit, Rotchet, &c. are ornaments of the Ministry. Finally, all rags and trumperies of the Romish religion, are good and lawful, if it please the Church and Magistrate. For why? They concern the outward government, orders and ceremonies of the church: And touching them (say these men) Christ hath not left any ordinances written, certain, or perpetual, but left them at the arbitrary appointment of the Church and Magistrate. Is not this strange Divinity? Yet they stay not there neither, but as men that have bent their tongues like bows for lies, they fear not to add moreover, that when the Church and Magistrate appointeth any ordinances, (whether these or any other) touching the outward government & ceremonies of the Church, we are to account them to be Christ's own ordinances, who hath left this liberty to the Church for to use. O shameless mouth: O unchristian heart: Can any Papist or Atheist say more? or can any desire a more evident proof then this, that these men and assemblies thus holding, professing, and practicing (as here them selves affirm) cannot in this estate by the word of God, be deemed med true Christians and Churches. [ 6] Sixthly, observe howe yet moreover they seek shifts, & would color the matter, pretending That the things which concern outward government and ceremonies, are not of the foundation simply. But this will help them no more then the other. For first we ask, are they of the foundation at all, though not simply? If they be, then seeing they are not written, not certain, nor perpetual (as here is affirmed) it will follow, that neither the whole foundation is written certain, or perpetual: neither the Apostles were faithfuull and skilsull master builders in the laying thereof. If they be not, then why is this word (simply) added, as if they granted that they were of the foundation, though not simply as they speak. Secondly we ask, whether the outward government and ceremonies ordained by Christ for his church under the Gospel, be not of the foundation, as much as the outward government and ceremonies appointed by Moses for the Church under the law? Or if they be, whether they are not as faithfully set down by Christ, as the other were by Moses, and as carefully to be observed by us, as the other were by the Jews, or rather much more, inasmuch as Christ the Son is worthy more glory and honor, then Moses the servant. Thirdly we ask, what foundamentall points Moses and Aaron with the rest of the Jews joining with them, held: that Corah, Dathan, Abiram, and their companions held not: Differing from them and erring only touching the Priesthood and Ministry which concerned the outward orders & government of the Church: was therefore Corah, Dathan, Abiram, and their companies in that estate the true Jsraell of God? Or were not the other truths they held by this means frustrate and of none effect unto them? Nay, were they not therefore wholly to be separated from, and left to the judgment of God, which overtook them and all that joined unto them? Yet was their error only in matters of order and outward government of the Church. This may suffice to convince the adversaries untrue assertions in this place. To that of Master Cranmer and Ridley &c. is answered before.

For conclusion therefore, this we add, concerning this point. That all such assemblies and people, as hold, profess, and practice, (as doth the Church of England) these abominations following: They cannot by the word of God, be esteemed in such estate truly to hold Christ, their Prophet, Priest, and King: Towit, The confusion of all sortes of people (though never so wicked) and their seed in the body of the Church: The offices and callings of other Archb. and Lordb. then Jesus Christ: also of Archdeacons, Chancellors, Commissaries, Officials, Priests, half Priests, Parsons, Uicars, Uagrant and Mercinarie Preachers, &c. The entrance into the Ministry by another way, and by other Lord, then Jesus Christ: The executing of it under those strange Lord's, & leaving it at their pleasure: The preaching of the word, administration of the Sacraments, and governing of the Church, by virtue of the offices and callings afore said, & according to the Popish Canons and constitutions: The power of Excommunication in the Prelates alone and their Officials: The confounding of Civil and Ecclesiastical offices and authority in the Ministers of the Church: The forbidding of Marriage at certain seasons: The imposing and using of stinted devised Liturgies: The English Portuis, taken out of the Popes latin word for word (save that a few of the grosest things are left out) yet keeping the same frame and order of Collectes, Psalms, Lessons, Pater nosters, Pistles, Gospels, Versicles, Respondes, &c. Appointing holy days to all Saints and Angels, to the Virgin Marie, John the Baptist, Mark, Luke, and twelve Apostles severally: together with Fastes on the Eaues and on Ember days, Fridays, Satterdayes & Lent: Prescribing the Ministers to pray over the dead, over the Corn and Grass at some seasons of the year, and over Women at their Courching or purification: Ioyninge them also to marie with the Ring, which they make a sacramental sign: And to Baptise likewise with the sign of the Cross, with Godfathers and Godmothers, with questions demanded of the infant that cannot speak nor understand: Giving power, to Women to baptize: And ordaining that the other Sacrament of the Lord's Supper be celebrated kneeling, as when they receive their maker: and with change of the words of Christ's institution, taking in steed of them, the words of the Popes Mass book, translated into English, &c. Finallie, the upholding of these and all such amongst them only by carnal weapons, of imprisonment, death, confiscation of goods, banishment, and such like. The assemblies (I say) and people which hold, profess, and practice (as doeth this Church of England) the abominations afore said, concerning the outward order and government of the Church, whatsoever truths they hold besides, yet can they not by the word of God, be deemed truly to hold the Lord Jesus, their Prophet, Priest, and King, in such constitution of a church. Neither therefore can they in this estate by the word of God be accounted true Christians, nor the true constituted churches of Christ: & this is the question between us and our adversaries. [ 7] 7. Lastly, let the godly and indifferent Reader! judge, whether it will not follow upon this answer in this place: First, that the Scriptures are not sufficient for the building up and guidance of the Church here on earth: Secondly, that the men of God cannot by the Scriptures be made absolute and fully furnished to every good work: Thidlie, that Christ him self in whom the treasures of wisdom and knowledge are hid, yet was so foolish, careless and unfaithful, as having an house and kingdom (which is his Church) he hath not in his word appointed unto it, any offices, laws and orders, for the due governing and ordering thereof: Finallie, That the Hierarchy, Worship, Sacraments, Traditions, Canons, and whatsoever constitutions of Antichrist, concerning the outward orders and government of the church, being appointed by the Church and Magistrate, are to be accounted Christ's own ordinances: O shameless impiety: Doubtless this is that same strange passion, and mere desperatnes, wherewith afterward unjustly they charge us: which we will not prosecute, as it deserveth, but exhort them only, to take heed least that woe come upon them which is written: Woe unto them that speak good of evil, and evil of good: which put darkness for light, and light for darkness: that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter. Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight, Esa. 5.20.21.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 3. Excep.

Our third Exception was this. Whereas they referred us to their book of Artieles 1562. were quired that they should show by the Scriptures how the 36. Article there mentioned, which is of the book of consecrating Archbiships and Bishops, and of ordaining Priests and Deacons: And howe also the 6. and 35. Articles of that book, enjoining the Apocrypha books and Homilies, to be read in the Church by the Ministers distinctly and diligently. Howe these, J say, do agree with the Gospel of Christ, and true Christianitis.

Now I pray you, have they shown us these things by the Scriptures, as we desired: nothing less. First therefore mark this here and everywhere also in their reasons and answers, that though we call never so much to them for proof and evidence from the Scriptures, yet they never bring it, but labor to put it off with other shifts & devices of their own: As if our consciences were to be built upon their fancies, and not upon the written word of God. But what do they say to our demand? First they tell us, These things do not utterly destroy true Christianity. Secondly, they grant notwithstanding, that they agree with it as black doeth with white, that is, they are clean contrary unto it: For this their similitudes do import. Now whereas they allege, That these things destroy not true Christianity, We answer, That even that Hyerarchie, worship, constitution, and government, which they profess and practice (as appeareth by those and other their Articles and injunctions in our former answer alleged, to which yet we have received no answer) being directly Antichristian, do utterly destroy true Christianity. so as the people and Churches so professing and practicing, cannot in that estate by the word of God be judged true Christians, or the true constituted Churches of Christ. And touching the similitudes here used, besides that which we have noted before, we add moreover, that they are not against us, but against them selves, in as much as comparing the doctrines of the Gospel, which they profess, with the whiteness of an Ethiopians teeth: And their Antichristian Ministry, Worshop, courts, and confusion of people, with the blackenes of an Ethiopians body. This and such like similitudes do fitly declare their estate. And the approving of the black constitution of their church Assemblies, by some white doctrines of the Gospel which they profess: Is even as if they should reason thus: An Ethiopian is white of his teeth: therefore he is a white man. A black Raven is white of his bill: Therefore a black Raven is a white bird.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 1. Reason.

HIs answer here is First concerning the Proposition of this reason, then concerning the Assumption: Concerning the Proposition: First [ 1] he saith, Our speech is improper, that Christ and Antichrist is there amongst them joined together. Secondly, he taketh vpō him to expound our words and meaning to be thus, Christ and some outward ceremonies and orders of Antichrist. To this we answer: First, that it is meet that we (not he) expound our own meaning, which together with the propriety of the speech, will afterwards appear in our defense of the Assumption against his answer thereto. His answer therefore concerning the Assumption is this: First, That the things among them which we charge to be of Antichrist, they think to be Christ's own: For proof whereof, here ferreth us to his answer to our Second exception going before, whether also we refer the Reader for answer to him again. Secondly, forgetting him self, he granteth that in deed they be orders of Antichrist: yet that they are but as the blackness of the Swannes bill to the rest of the body. Well then by his own confession they are of Antichrist, and therefore not Christ's own, as before he said and labored to prove. Thus at once both he contradicteth him self, and overthroweth that which he answered before to our Second exception.

This were sufficient to manifest their deceitful and evil dealing: But that it may more fully appear, specially seeing be would dazzle the people's [ 2] eyes with these mincing words ( of some outward ceremonies & orders of Antichrist, comparing them with the blackness of the swans bill as if they were but a few, and of small moment, Therefore will we reckon up some of their Antichristian enormities and abominations (for it vere infinite to number them all): And then let the Reader judge of his inswere and their estate, whether it be not more like the black Raven with a white bill, then the white Swan with a black. Sorie we are that we should thus trouble the Reader, or our selves: specially considering that already we have mentioned diverse of the particulars following: But seeing we are constrained hereunto by their sly and colorable answer in this place, therefore can we not but do it, for the clearer manifestation of the truth, & better discovering of their deceiptfulnes. In which respects we entreat the Reader also, to take in good parte, and duly to weigh the repetition and recapitulation following.

Antichristian abominations yet retained in England.
• 1 The confusion of all sortes of people in the body of their Church, even the most polluted and their seed being members thereof.
• 2 The offices and callings of Arch L. Bishops.
• 3 Lord Bishops.
• 4 Suffragans.
• 5 Prelates Chauncellours
• 6 Deans
• 7 Subdeanes
• 8 Prebendaries
• 9 Cannons
• 10 Petty cannons
• 11 Chaunters
• 12 Virgerers
• 13 Pistlers
• 14 Gospellers
• 15 Queristers men and boys
• 16 Organistes
• 17 Organ Flowers
• 18 Arch deacons
• 19 Subdeacons
• 20 Deacons, or half priests
• 21 Priests
• 22 Parsons
• 23 Vicars
• 24 Curates
• 25 Vagrant & Mercinarie Preachers
• 26 Churchwardens
• 27 Clerks and Sexions
• 28 Chaplaynes
• 29 Doctors of Divinity
• 30 Bachelours of Diuini.
• 31 Doctors and
• 32 Proctors in the Prelates courts
• 33 Commissaries
• 34 Officials
• 35 Registers
• 36 Summoners with the rest of that Antichristian and viperous generation
• 37 Their Ministration of the word, Sacraments, & government of their church by voriue of the offices aforesaid
• 38 The titles of Primate, Metropolitan, Lord's grace, Lordship, &c. ascribed to the Prelates.
• 39 The inferior Prelates swearing obedience to the Metropolitical seas of Cāturburie & York.
• 40 The inferior Ministers when they enter into the Ministry promising obedience to the prelates their ordinances: and when they are inducted to benefices, confirminge it with their oath
• 41 The Deacons and Priests presentations to a Lord Bishoppe by an Archdeacon
• 42 Their receiving of orders of the Prelates, or their Suffragans
• 43 Their Pontifical, or Book of consecratinge Bishops, and of ordering Priests & Deacons, taken out of the Popes Pōtificall, where their abuse of scripture to that ende their Collects, Pistles &c. may be scone
• 44 Their making and being made Priests, with blasphemy, the Prelates saying to them whom they make Priests, Receive the Holy Ghoste, whose sins ye forgive, they are forgiven, &c.
• 45 Their confoundinge of Civil and Ecclesiastical offices and authority in Ecclesiastical persons
• 46 Their retaining and using in their public worship, the Apocrypha Books, which have in them diverse errors, vntruethes, blasphemies, & contradiction to the canonical scriptures
• 47 Their stinted prayers, and Liturgy, taken out of the Popes Mass book, with the same order of Psalms, Lessons, Collectes, Pater Nosters, Pistles, Gospels, Versicles, Responds, &c.
• 48 The Cross in Baptism
• 49 The Hallowed Ponte, Questions to the Infants at Baptism
• 50 The Godfathers and Godmothers promisinge that the child doeth believe, forsake the Devil and all his works, &c.
• 51 Weomans baptizinge of children: which main teyneth that heresy, that the children are damned, which die unbaptized.
• 52 Their howselinge of the sick, and Ministring the communion to one alone
• 53 The Ministring it, not with the words of Christ's institution, but with other taken out of the Popes Portuis
• 54 Their selling that Sacrament for two pence, to all comers
• 55 The receiving of it kneeling, which maketh it an Idol, and nourisheth that heresy of receyuinge their maker, of worshipping it, &c.
• 56 Their Ring in Mariadge, making it a Sacrament all sign, and Mariadge an Ecclesiastical action: thereby nourishinge the Popish heresy, that Matrimony is a Sacrament
• 57 Their praying over the dead, making it also a parte of the Ministers duty, and nourishinge the heresy of prayer for the dend
• 58 Their churching or purifying of Women, then also abusing that Scripture, The Sun shall not burn them by day, nor the Moon by night
• 59 Their Gang week, and praying then over the corn and grass
• 60 Their forbidding of marriage in Gang week, in Advent, in Lent, and on all the Ember days: which the Apostle calleth a doctrine of Devils, 1 Tim. 4.1, 2, 3.
• 61 Their Saints, Angels, and Apostles days, with their prescript service
• 62 Their fasts, and abstaining from flesh on their Eaues, on Frydayes, Saturdayes, Ember days, and all Lent through
• 63 Their dispensations from the Prelates courts of Faculties, to eat flesh at these times: Which dispensations also have this wholesome caluse in them, sana conscientia, (that is, with a safe conscience:) plainly showing, that they make it a matter of conscience. This is another doctrine of Devils, noted in the scripture before alleged 1 Tim. 4.
• 64 Their Dispensations in like manner to marry in the times among thē forbidden, which are noted before
• 65 Lycenses from the same authority, to marry in places exempt
• 66 Dispensations also from thence for Boys and ignorant fools to have benefices
• 67 Dispensations likewise for Nonresidents
• 68 For having Two, Three Four, or more benifices, even tor, quot, that is to say, as many as a man will have and can get.
• 69 Tollerations
• 70 Patronages of, and presentatiō to benefices with buying and selling of aduousons
• 71 Their institutions into benefices by the Prelates, their Inductions, Proxes, &c.
• 72 Their suspensations, absolutions, degradations, depriuations, &c.
• 73 The Prelates Chauncellours, and Commissaries courts, having power to excommunicate alone, & to absolve
• 74 Their penance in a white sheet
• 75 Their commutation of penance and absolving one man for another
• 76 The Prelates confirmation, or Bishoping of children, to assure thē of God's favor, by a sign of man's devising
• 77 The standing at the Gospel
• 78 The putting off the cap, and making a leg when the word Jesus is read
• 79 The ring of peals at burials
• 80 Beadmen at buriah, & hired Mourners in mourning apparel
• 81 The hanging & mourning of churches & heerses with black at burials
• 82 Their absoluinge the dead, dying excommunicate, before they can have (as they say) christia burial
• 83 The Idol Temles.
• 84 The Popish vestments, as Rochet, Horned cap, Tippet, the Surplise in parish Churches, & Cope in cathedral churches
• 85 The visitations of their Lord Bishops and Archdeacans
• 86 The Prelates, Lordlie dominion, revenues and retinew
• 87 The Priests maintetenance by Tithes, Chrismes offerings, &c.
• 88 The oaths ex officio in their ecclesiastical courts, making men swear to accuse them selves
• 89 The Church Wardens oath to present to the Prelates, all the offenses, faults and defaults committed in their Parishes, against thir Articles and Injunctions.
• 90 The Prelates rulinge of the Church by the Popes cursed canon law
• 91 Finally, their imprisonning, banishing, such as renounce and witness against these abominations a foresaid, and the rest yet retained among them.

Thus being constrained, we have repeated and reckoned up diverse of the Antichristian enormities still remaining & practiced in their church: By which the Reader may better see and judge, both of the sleightnes of their answer in this place, and of the black constitution of their church. As also comparing these and the book by him alleged together, it may hence appear that our speech is proper; and fitly declaring their estate, when we said they join Christ and Antichrist together: And therefore his answer in this place to be frivolous and of no weight.

[ 3] Next he cometh to the proof of our Proposition, which was confirmed by these scriptures, 2 Cor. 6.14, 15, 16. with Ezek. 43.8. & 2 King, 17 33, 34, 40, 41. The Proposition which we proved by these Scriptures, was this.

That which joineth Christ and Antichrist together, cannot make a true Christian.

Now let even the adversaries them selves judge, Whether these Scriptures do not so evidently prove this Proposition, as none can deny it, but such as are Wilfully blinded, and strive against the light of their own consciences But what saith he of these scriptures here alleged? Forsooth That they are wholly mismatched. And why so? Because the ioyninge there forbidden, is unto such Idolatry, as cannot stand by any means with Christian faith, and breaketh most directly the First commandment: whereas their transgression is but against the Seconde, and may stand with true faith, as he supposeth in Cranmer, &c. First, this answer of his, concerneth our Assumption, whereas those scriptures were the proof of the Proposition. But to let this pass, let us consider the answer it self, howe worthy and clerk like it is. These scriptures (he saith) forbid joining to such Idolatry, as cannot stand with Christian faith, and breaketh most directly the First commandment. 1. If this were so, what then? Do they not therefore forbid joining to Antichristian idolatry, and that false worship which breaketh the second commandment? 2: Secondly, he cannot deny, but as we judge of their way and estate, so it is a transgression against the Second commandment. Now, Samuel saith, Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and transgression is wickedness & idolatry. See then what advantage he getteth by his own answer? 3. Thirdly, as the Pagans Idolatry breaking the First commandment, cannot stand with true Christian faith, so neither can the idolatry and false worship of Antichrist breaking the seconde. To that of Master Cranmer, &c, is already answered in pag. 13. whereunto may be added, that their case now, is nothing so as theirs was then: both for that they suffered to death for the truth which they saw, And because the things now controverted, were not then so called into question and convinced against them by the scriptures, as now they have ben against these: neither were then by them so resisted and persecuted as they are by these men nowadays, even unto bands, bannishment, and death it self: Otherwise we might justify the callings and estate of the Monks and Friars, and of the most Popish Priests and Prelates, and the having communion with them in that estate, because diverse such have ben Martyrs, and laid down their lives for the truth which they saw, who yet never doubted of the lawfulness of their callings and estate in this behalf, which then were not so called into question, nor convinced by the scriptures, to be unlawful, as since they have been. 4. Fourthly, as there is a double Jdolatrie and false worship the one against the First commandment when any have others besides the true God for their God: the other against the Second commaundment, when any having the true God for their God, yet worship him not as he hath commanded, but after the inventions and prescriptions of men: So also these scriptures alleged, and the whole course of the word of God, condempneth the joining and having fellowship with either of these, as well this which is against the Second commandment, as that which is against the First. See the Reasons alleged by the Apostle: Are they not strong and weighty against joining together righteousness and unrighteousness, light and darkness, Christ and Belial, whether it be in the breach of the First or Second commandment? Saieth not the Lord there, That his Church is his Temple, in which he dwelleth and Walketh, and therefore requireth of them that they be his people, his sons and daughters, separated from the world, and touching no unclean thing: whether it be of Antichrist against the Second, or of the Heathen against the First commandment? And touching the place of Ezekiel, who seeth not, that he speaketh directly of the breach of the Second commandment, in joining together in the worship of the true God, their thresholdes with God's thresholds, and their posts with God's posts, that is, their inventions with God's ordinances: which though it be done to the name and for the service of the true God, yet saith the Prophet, Jt is abomination in the sight of God, and they that do so worship him, set a wall between God & them selves, and defile his holy Name with their abominations. Loe here the use and fruit of joining together the inventions of men (chiefly of Antichrist that man of sin) with the ordinances of God in his worship and service. As Master Jacob and his complices like this, so let them hold on in pleading for it, and practicing of it. The third place alleged, is out of 2 King. 17. where also it is most plain, that the scripture speaketh of the breach of the Second commandment. For there is set down that the Samaritans worspipped the same God, and after, the same manner that the Israelites of the Ten Tribes did, that were carried from thence: That is, they worshipped the true God, but not as he had commanded, but by having Images of sundry sortes, by which they thought God was represented, as of old they thought of the calf that Aaron made, and by other inventions devised by the Israelites in their defection, and joined to God's ordinances for the worship and service of him. That this was the sin of those Samaritans against the Second commandment, will appear, by comparing together with this chapter, these scriptures following, to which we refer the Reader, Ezra 4.1, 2. with Exod. 20.4, 5, 6. and 32.1, 4, 5, 6. Jug. 17.2, 3, 4, 5, 13 Ezek 20.39. Hosea 2.16. Amos 5.21, 22, 23. & 8.14. 1 Kings 12.27. and 18.21. and 21.29. and 22.12, 24. Isaiah 10.11. John 4.19, 20, 25, 26, 29, 30. By these also, as by that of Ezekiel likewise may appear, howe false it is, that he further saith, They did not so much as profess the written law to be their rule, neither for outward order, nor their inward doctrines of faith. If this were so, howe could it be true, which Ezekiel saith of them, of whom he speaketh, that they set their posts and threshalls by God's posts and Treshalls, that is, their inventions by God's ordinances. Howe also was it that the Samaritans, spoken of 2 King. 17. sacrificed to the true God, even the Lord God of the Jews, offering unto him burnt offringes, and meat offringes, and peace offringes? Or howe came it, that they still used circumcision, and weyted for the Messias to come, as he was promised in the written word of God: yea knowing also and believing, not only that the Messias would come which is called Christ, but also that when he came he would tell them all things? The corinthian infidels in deed, as the rest of the Heathen, knew not the true God, nor his written word. But it was not so with the Samaritans or Ten tribes of Jsraell fallen from Judah, as is evident by the scriptures and reasons before alleged. To that which he next addeth to their professiō & practice, Referring us to his answer in pag. 11, 12, 18 to our Second Exception going before, we have there answered already, pag. 12. 13. and will not therefore repeat it.

Only this we add moreover, That seeing the public constitution of [ 4] their Assemblies, and estate of their Ministers & people therein, is a most impious transgression of the Second commandment, which the Lord himself calleth spiritual whoredom against him, yea grievous iniquity and hatred of him, threatening to visit it upon the Fathers and children so remaining, to the Third and Fourth generation: Therefore both by it are the truths which they profess, made frustrate unto thē in this estate. Neither will it help them to pretend that it is their error in judgment, (For what abomination is there that might not thus be coloured?) But seeing their public profession & practice is (at the best) a joining of Christ and Antichrist together, as hath been shown before, therefore neither can they by the word of God be deemed in this estate, to be true Christians, on true constituted Churches. And the Scriptures applied to prove this consequent, are fitly alleged, as hath been seen. Falsly therefore it is, that he saith, We sinned against the Third commandment, in the application of the scriptures aforesaid. That is their own common custom, and lamentable sin, to break the Third commandment, in taking the name of God in vain, not only by falsifying and perverting the scriptures, but also by their Ministration of the Word, Sacraments, and Government of the Church, by virtue of such offices and callings as Christ never appointed in his word thereunto, but were first devised, and still are retained by Antichrist, that son of perdition. Hitherto of his answer concerning the proof of our Proposition.

To the proof of our Assumption, he answereth not a word: which yet most of all required answer, if he would in deed soundly defend their estate, as he pretendeth. That their profession and practice joineth Christ & Antichrist together, we shown in pag. 28 &c. by their Articles, Canons, Injunctions, Aduertisements, &c. published at sundry times, & by their present Ministry, Worship, and Church-government, according thereunto. If this be not so, why brings he not warrant, for these particulars from the Testament of Christ, and so take away the proof of our Asumption? If this be so (as by his silence he granteth and we are sure he cannot show the contrary by the Scriptures) then our Assumption standeth firm, and consequently in this constitution, they cannot be accounted true Christians, nor their Assemblies so gathered, true constituted Churches.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 2. Reason.

Our Second Reason is as you see: now what proposition doth he deny? Truly none at all. What defense bringeth he of their book of common prayers, and the particulars therein: Of their Prelacie, & other Ministry received from them according to their book and Pontifical: Of their Canons and Excommunications, &c. Surely none. What then doth he answer? Forsooth he referred us to his anuswer before in the last exception. Whether also we refer the Reader with this note, that there he shall find nothing, either for answer of any proposition of this argument, or for defense of their false worship, Praelacie, Ministry, and Church government called into question. Is not this then a worthy and Clerck like answer? And have not these men (think you) good proof for their present estate and Church constitution: Which thus leave it altogether without defense, even when it most needeth, and as it were, beg geth their help and succor, if they could afford it any. But now having no answer to any parte of our argument, yet he bids us note, that this Scripture (Mat. 15.) here alleged, is verified of such as were then of the true visible Church, with whom Christ himself and his Apostles both in Christ's time, and after his death, did sometime join and communicate. This therefore he saith maketh for them and against us most notably.

1 But first let him tell us: if many things, which are verified sometimes of the members of a true Church, may not also fitly be applied, and alleged against a false Church, and yet not justify their estate and constitution, neither make for them, but against them altogether. Otherwise he condemneth at once all the Martyrs heretofore, who usually alleged this very Scripture against the false worship of the Romish Church, as him self cannot he ignorant. Yet in his learning it seemeth the Papists might well have answered the Martyrs again, that this Scripture was verified of them that were of the true visible Church, and therefore made for them, and against the Martyrs most notably.

2 Secondly, when he saith, this Scripture is verified of such as were of the true visible Church with whom Christ and his Apostles communicated: Let him also tell us, whether he meaneth that Christ and his Apostles communicated with them in their vain traditions. If he think they did, that very Chapter showeth the contrary: besides that the whole Scriptures testify, that Christ was altogether free from sin, which he could not have been, if he had joined with them in those their inventions. If they did not, (as it is without all question) then what doth this help those men, who all of them join and communicate with the false worship of these assemblies?

3 Thirdly, we answer, that his note is not worth the noting, being nothing at all to the purpose for the question in hand. For first, who knoweth not, that in the Jewish Church, the doctrine publicly professed & practiced by their law, did not appoinct or ratify any of those vain traditions, but utterly forbid them? Whereas contrarily, the very doctrine publicly professed and practiced by law in England, appoincteth and ratifieth the false worshiping of God by the inventions of men: Secondly, those vain traditions aforesaid, were the personal sins of some particular men in the Jewish Church not publicly established by law, nor generally received and practiced in that Church: Zacharias and Elizabeth, Simeon, Anna, Mary, Joseph, and Christ himself, and his Apostles, with many others, kept the ordinance of God given by the hand of Moses, and observed of that Church. Neither did they join or pollute them selves with that vain worship aforesaid: whereas in the church of England, the false worship thereof devised by men, even by that man of sin, is not the personal sin of some particular men in it, but is publikelie established by law, and generally receyned and practiced in these assemblies, of all the members thereof. So then this scripture maketh nothing for them, but against them most notably.

Now, whereas in the margent, he wisheth the Reader to mark a contrariety with our selves, by comparing this and our 6. Reason together: we also refer it to the Reader to judge, whether there be not even an harmony with this, and a confirmation of it. Hitherto of the defense of our second Reason.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 3. Reason.

TO this our Third Reason, His First answer is, That he denieth the Assumption: which is as much in plain terms, as if he had given the holy Ghost the lie, who by the Apostle Paul affirmeth it, Gal. 5.2, 3, 4. As in the proof of the Assumption we shown before. But for the more evidence of the truth, we will set down the proof of the Assumption in a Syllogism, thus:

If a Galatian submit to Circumcision, though he hold all the truths of the Gospel professed in England withal, yet be notwithstanding abolished from Christ, and fallen from grace, Then is he not in this estate a true Christian.

But the former is true, as the Apostle testifieth, Gal. 5.2, 3, 4.

Therefore also the latter.

Next he answereth, That the Galatians were then true Christians, and their Assemblies, Churches, Gal. 1.3. Therefore (saith he) this reason is naught. But he may not thus run away with the matter and deceive himself and his simple favorers. The question is not, whether any Galatians were true Christians, or any of their Assemblies, true churches. For whoever doubted of that? But this is the question: Whether a Galatian holding all the truths of the Gospel now professed in England, and withal submit to Circumcision, were in that estate a true Christian Or putting the case that there were whole Assemblies consisting of such: Whether those assemblies then in that case were by God's word to be deemed the true churches of Christ. The Apostle testifieth and saith, no: This man saith, yea. Now whether of these two we shall believe, let all men judge. But what is it then that the Apostle termeth the assemblies of the Galatians true churches? Gal. 1.2. This man showeth the reason him self, the light of the truth is so clear and manifest. There were but some of the Galatians (saith he) that were infected with this error of Circumcision. True in deed (say we) & of such only is the suppositiō made in the case afore said: But the churches of Galatia (saith he) generally were not such, but held the saving faith sound: which also is most true, they being set in the way and order of Christ Jesus: and therefore though there sprang up some heretics and schismatics amongst them (which is the lott and trial of the true churches of God in all ages) yet was there not cause to break the Communion with those assemblies, but to proceed with them in the faith, and order of Christ, and to cut off and cast out such troublesome leaven from amongst thē. Now this being duly weighed, it is nothing for, but altogether against, the having of communion, with the assemblies of this Lande, which are not set in the way and order of Jesus Christ, (as were those churches of Galatia) but in the Apostasy and confusion of Antichrist, as hath ben at large declared before, in the defense of the former Reasons, where also that of Master Cranmer, Ridley, &c. is answered.

F. JOHNSON his Defense of his 4. Reason.

HEre the light of the truth doeth so dazzle the Answerers eyes, as he freely confesseth he cannot deny any whit of our Reason. And yet forsooth the Argument is too bad. But why so? There is (he saith) an equivocation in it, and therefore he will distinguish. But First we [ 1] tell him, there is no equivocation at all in the words, but they are all plain, to him that hath a single eye, and will understand the truth. Therefore his distinction here is idle & frivolous. Yet see also between what things he doeth distinguish? Forsooth between the whole function and exercise of public worship performed in the Turkish or Popish Assemblies, and between the outward manner of calling to their Ministry, and the outward ceremonies used amongst them.

An absurd distinction touching the matter in hand: For first, who knoweth not, that these latter are of the very same nature with the former: Are not their outward callings and ceremonies false, Anticristian, & accursed before God, as well as the rest of their worship and service? Or hath God in his word given any commandment more for these then for the other? Secondly, who seeth not, that the argument here, is not of whatsoever thing is used among the Turks and Papists, but of the Ministry and worship which they have devised and executed: As in particular, of the public offices of Ministry retey ned among them, of their manner of calling, and entrance into them: of their administration of them: of their stinted imposed Liturgy: their ecclesiastical government, cannons, proceedings, &c. All which in the church of England are taken out of that golden cup of abominations, whereby Antichrist, That man of sin, hath made the Nations of the earth to be drunken: as may appear by comparing their Pontificalls, Canons, and constitutions together. If this man will needs be otherwise minded, then let him prove the particulars aforesaid, by the Testament of Jesus Christ.

Furthermore also, mark here, that he granteth, the doctrine of faith [ 2] contained in their book of Articles, cannot make him a true Christian, that holdinge them, doth withal receive and join unto the public worship, performed in the Turkish or Popish Assemblies. This he saith he granteth as most true, Wherevpon it followeth, even by his own confession: First, that such thingh then may be joined with the doctrines of faith received among them, as they in such estate cannot be deemed true Christians, or true Churches, Neither the truths which they hold, be auaylable to them. Secondly, that therefore the Proposition of his First and main Argument, is not general, but admitteth limitation, & so his greatest defense is of no weight, as before is shown in the beginning, in our answer to that Proposition. Thirdly, that his answer to our Seconde Exception before alleged, is of no force, howsoever here and everywhere he refer us to it. For which also we refer the Reader, to that which is said in that place, in defense of the Exception aforesaid, As also for the allegation of 2 Cor. 6.14. unto that which is said concerning it in defense of our First Reason before alleged.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 5. Reason.

THis he saith, is an absurd comparison. So belike (if his grave judgment might go for good payment) the manifold allusions which (in describing the spiritual Babylon, the Spirit of God maketh to-the material Babilō of the Chaldeans) were to be accounted absurd allusions and comparisons. As also the often alluding, and likening together, the holy things of the Law, with the holy things of the Gospel, and the transgressions then with the transgressions now, which are so often used in the Scripture: Are in his account absurd allusions and similitudes. Secondly, he saith the Proposition is most false. Which we answer is most true and most plainly taught and declared in the fifth of Daniel's prophesy, verse. 1, 2, 3, 4. and Levite. 23. as we alleged before, when we first propounded the reason, Wherevnto we yet have received no answer. So soundly he defendeth his cause.

Thirdly he saith, The scriptures quoted (Dan. 5.1, 2, 3, 4. compared with Pro. 9.17, 18. Revel. 17.4, 5, & 18, 4. and 14, 8, 9, 10, 11. ) are idly and vainly applied. But howe shows he this to be so as he saith? Very profondlie, I warrant you. For he bids us see the answer to the allegations in the First Reason: And this is all the proof he brings. Well: we have seen his answer to the allegations there, and find: First, that those scriptures here alleged, are not so much as once mentioned there. Secondly that his answer to the allegations there set down, is most friuoulous and of no weight, but against him self, as there we have declared.

Lastly, in his propounding of our Reason otherwise then we had done (which in deed is a thing very ordinary, though nothing commendable in them) it seemeth, that being not able to answer any parte of our Reason, as we had set it down, yet he thought to help himself by this exception, that the Material vessels of Jerusalem were not of the like power and virtue to sanctify the Heathen Babylonians, as the true doctrines received among the spiritual Babylonians, are to sanctify them. But he shall find, if he will consider and compare together the Scriptures here alleged, that the golden vessels being holy to the Lord, and taken out of his Temple, did as much sanctify the Chaldean Babylonians and their Feasts: As the holy doctrines (vessels as it were of the Lord's Temple) had among the spiritual Babylonians, do sanctify them and their constitution, That is, neither of their Estates and Assemblies are sanctified thereby at all. For saith not the Lord, That the setting of men's posts and thresholds, (howe much more of Babylon's enormities) by his Postes & Thresholdes, that is by his truths and ordinances, is so far from sanctifying, as it defileth his holy Name, yea is abomination in his fight, and setteth a wall between him and them that do it? Saith not the scripture also, that the true doctrines in the false church are among them as stolen waters and hid bread, which though they be sweet & pleasant, yet there also is the mouth filled with gravel, and the guests of those feasts and assemblies, are so far frō being sanctified by those truths in that estate, as they are before God even dead men, and in the depth of hell.

To conclude this point, hath not an Angel from heaven proclaimed it with a loud voice, that the spiritual Babylon, (notwithstanding any truths she holdeth yet) is so vnsanctifyed and abominable, as she is become a cage of all unclean and hateful birds, and that all her children and Merchants that will not depart out of her, shall receive of her plagues and damnation, and drink of the wine of God's wrath, yea of the pure wyne, which is poured into the cup of his wrath, and be tormented in fire and brimstone, before the holy Angels and before the Lamb for evermore. Loe here their fearful estate, which this man will needs accompt holy and acceptable before God.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 6. Reason.

THis our 6. Reason, he neither propounded as we did, nor answereth directly, and soundly unto any part of it. But that the nakedness of his answer, and light of the truth may better appear, we will propound the Reason more shortly in a Syllogism, thus.

The people and assemblies, whose Ecclesiastical constitution is such as to them in that estate the Couenantes, holy things, and service of God do not appertain, they cannot in such constitution by the word of God be deemed true Christians or true Churches, whatsoever truth they profess besides.

But such is the Ecclesiastical constitution of the people and assemblies of England, as unto them in that estate the Couenauntes, holy things, & service of God do not appertain.

Therefore the people and Assemblies of England, cannot in that constitution, by the word of God, be deemed true Christians, or true Churches, whatsoever truths they profess besides.

The people and Assemblies whose Ecclesiastical constitution is such, as they worship God after a false manner, never appointed by himself, nor approved in his word: their constitution is such, as unto them in that estate, the couenaunts, holy things, and service of God do not appertain.

But such is the Ecclesiastical constitution of the people and Assemblies of England, as they worship God after a false manner, never appointed by him self, nor approved in his word.

Therefore the Ecclesiastical constitution of the people and Assemblies of England, is such as unto them in that estate, the Couenaunts, holy things, and service of God, do not appertain.

The Proposition was proved by the example of the Samaritans, and Christ's speech and sentence of them in such estate, John. 4. and 2 King. 17 Whervnto he answereth nothing to any purpose, save that, what he saith, is against him self. For where he granteth That the Samaritans, and Balaam knew and believed the Messias should come, yea and that the Devils know and believe there is a God, and that Jesus is the Christ, the holy one of God. Who seeth not, that most excellent truths may be acknowledged, and yet they which so profess, be not therefore in their estate true Christians or true Churches, to whom the Couenauntes, holy things and service of God appertain? Where next he saith, The Samaritans believed not in the Messias, it will be heard for him to prove it, seeing he taketh belief in Christ so, as it is had in the spiritual Babylon and her daughters, and seeing also the Samaritans professed and beleened, not only that the Messiah should come, but even he which is called Christ, & that when he came, he would declare unto them all things. Jn so much as when Jesus was come, & had spoken but to a woman of Samaria, the scripture witnesseth, that many of the Samaritans of that city believed in him for the saying of the woman, which testified, he hath told me all things that ever I did, John 4.25, 26, 29, 30, 39. Thirdly, where he saith, The Samaritans joined Heathenish Idols with the God of Israel, which wholly destroyed the truth in them which they held. By this again it is evident, even in his own confession, Both that such things may be joined with the doctrines of truth, as in that estate, they which profess those truths, cannot be judged true Christians, or true churches, to whom the promises and holy things of God do belong: And that therefore also, the Proposition of his principal and main Argument first propounded, is not general, but of necessity admitteth limitations: So as then his main defense falleth to the ground, as already we have noted both in the beginning of this writing, in the answer to that Proposition afore said: and again in the defense of our Fourth Reason a little before. Moreover, in that he saith, the Samaritans joined Heathenish Idols with the God of Israel. (2. King. 17.) If he mean, that they worshipped the Idols them selves, sacrificing to them, and accounting them to be God's as well as the God of Israel, and so brake the First commandment, as before he affirmed in his answer to our First Reason: then we take it, that here again he is deceived, as there we have shown. The scripture saith, they worshipped & sacrifized to the Lord God of Israel. So as their sin was against the Second commandment, in that worshipping the true God, they did it in, and by those Images, as also by other devices of their own, and traditions of their predecessors. That this was their estate and sin, besides that it appeareth in that chapter alleged, it is also most plainly set down, first by them selves, in that book of Ezra, where they speak unto the Jews of the captivity that built the Temple, saying:

We will build with you, for we seek the Lord your God as ye do, and we have sacrificed unto him since the time of Esar Haddon King of Asshur, which brought us up hither. Then also between Christ and the woman of Samaria, Joh. 4. where it is manifest, that the contention between the Jews and the Samaritans, was not whether only the true God was to be worshipped, but both of them agreeing in that, whether the solemn place of his worship was in Jerusalem, or in the mount of Samaria, &c. Lastly, by this man's own confession, when he saith in this place, that the Israelites under Jeroboam at Dan and B • thel, served not Pagan Idols, but the true God after their own devices. For the scripture testifieth, that the Samaritans worshipped the same God, and after the same manner that the Nations did which were carried from thence. Now the nations that were carried from thence, were the tenns Tribes that fell away from Judah to Jeroboam: which likewise feared the Lord & served their Jmages, that is, God in and by their Images as now also the Samaritans did that were come in their steed. Hitherto of his answer, which may seem to concern the Proposition of the latter Syllogism.

The Assumption was shown by this, that these assemblies being commingled together of all sortes of people, they have also for the worship of God among them, a counterfett Ministry and service, devised by man's which he rightly understandeth, as we also do, of their Hierarchy, and other abominations (before rehearsed) which deceitfully hear again he would smother up under the name of ceremonies. Touching which flight of his, sufficient is said before in the handling of our First Reason. But what now saith he here, concerning the Assumption or proof of it? Doeth he deny it? No. What then doeth he say for their counterfeit Hierarchy, worship, &c. Surely nothing but this, That their Assemblies in England have not their consciences convicted in these, as the people under Jeroboam, could not but have their consciences convicted then, touching their worship and Priesthood. But first, if this were so: is this any just defense of their Ministry, worship, or estate, that they yet see them not to be unlawful, as it could not be, but they under Jeroboam saw theirs to be? If this were a sufficient reason, might not the grossest Papist plead likewise for their Ministry, worship, and estate, as also the Usurers, extortioners, and persecutors, for them selves and their wickedness? By this reason, God should not have sent Lions among the Samaritans, because yet, they knew not the manner of worshipping the God of Jsraell, neither had their consciences convicted therein. But Christ hath taught us otherwise, that even that servant, which knoweth not his Masters will, and yet committeth things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten, though with fewer stripes, then he that knoweth and doeth it not. And even of those Jsraelites aforesaid the Lord him self testifieth that they were destroyed for lack of knowledge. So then neither can this people's ignorance (which he pleadeth) be a sufficient defense for their estate. Or if it could, yet it seemeth they of Israel aforesaid, might as well have alleged for them selves, seeing the Lord witnesseth of them that there was no knowledge of God in the lande. And thus the obiectiō also here brought by him self, remaineth still vnaunswered. Now where he saith, that Aaron's Line were the only Priests and Levites, he is also mistaken herein, In deed Aaron's Line only were the Priests, but the Levites were generally of the Tribe of Leuie, though not of Aaron's line. But to let this pass: We would know of him a sufficient reason, why the true worship and ministry appointed by Christ in his Testament, should not be as well known unto them in these days, as in the defection of Israel? He saith They could not but know, that Jerusalem was the only place, and Aaron's line the only Priests. Have not these the scripture as much as the other had? Or hath not Christ the Son, been as faithful in the house of God, and as plainly set down his will for his true worship and Ministry in the time of the Gospel, as Moses the servant was and did for the time of the Law? Yea and have not these by the word been made manifest to the consciences of men in these days? And even to the high Court of Parliament, representing the whole body of the Land as the other were to the Israelites in the time of their defection? Finally, doeth not this Land stand in as open rebellion against, and forsaking of the true Ministry, worship, and order, appointed by Christ to his church now, as the other did then, (if not more open and grievous) not only for the causes aforesaid, but because also they have received and still retain a false ministry, worship, and confusion of the man of sin, that son of perdition, and capital enemy of the Lord Jesus Christ? And yet moreover, least they should lack anything of the other, and not every way far exceed them, do also persecute unto bands, exile, & death, such as bear witness to the truth of Christ, against their abominations aforesaid. By this then it appeareth, that the adversary here, neither hath justified their estate in respect of the Apostate Israelites, nor answered the objection which him self framed against their present constitution: which therefore we will here set down as he propounded it.

The Objection was this.

The Israelises under Jeroboam at Dan and Bethel served not Pagan Idols, but the true God after their own devises, which yet resembled the ordinances at Jerusalem. 1. King. 12.32. Amos 4.4. How be it they were false worshippers, only for their false ministry, & outward false worship, for all that they believed in the God of Jerusalem rightly. Therefore so these of England, only for their false Ministry and outward worship.

This is his own Objection and Reason, unto which he hath given no sufficient answer, as before hath been shown. So that it still remaineth upon himself as a testimony against their present estate. This we neither did, nor needed to propound, as a several Reason, amongst those which we set down, because it is of like nature with those we mentioned amongst ours in the Second and Sixt Reasons before alleged.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 7. Reason.

HEre the adversary being not able with any color to deny the consequent, of our Reasō neither to justify their present Ministry, worship Cannons, Articles, Injunctions, &c. (which yet he must do, & still we call for it, if he will justify their present estate): yet being desperate sure, for else he would never have done it, he feareth not to gainsay the Assumption, that is, the very words and testimony of the scripture it self, 1. Tim. 4.1, 2, 3. The Apostle saith, that they which forbid Marriage & Meats, are departers from the faith, This man saith no. Now, whether of these shall we believe? But what color hath this man for his denial? Forsooth this: That they which do so, do not depart from the faith totally, and that the Apostles meaning is, that in these points they depart from the faith, but not absolutely and wholly. So by this man's conceit, none may be accounted departers from the faith, that depart only in some points, but they which do it totally from all. And thus then may no heretics or Antichrists that ever have been, or shall be in the world, be judged departers frō the faith, because they depart from it but in some points, and not absolutely from all. Thus in one word hath he justified at once the Arians, Nestorians, Sabellians, Papists, Familistes, Anabaptists, and whom not? because they depart but in some, not wholly from all points of faith. Js it not great pity that Antichrist hath so long wanted this stour Champion, that can thus in one word, justify his forbidding of meats and marriage, yea and his most detestable Hyerarchie, and superstitions? Now by this man's learning, all the Martyrs & writers heretofore, that by evidence of this scripture convicted the Synagogues of Antichrist to have departed from the faith, and therefore separated from them: were utterly deceived. Nay and the Apostles them selves were wholly mistaken, when speaking of Antichrists church and Religion, they call it a mystery of iniquity, speaking lies through hypocrisy, privily bringing in damnable heresies, and having a show of godliness, but denying the power thereof, And Johns eyes also it seemeth were not matches, when he saith, he saw in the whores forehead, (that is in Antichrists church and Religion) a name written, A mystery, great Babylon, the mother of whoredoms, and abominations of the earth. For we would know of this deep Clerke, howe Antichrists church and religion should justly be accounted a mystery of iniquity, and truly be said, to speak Lies in hypocrisy, also privily to bring in Damnable heresies, and to have a Shew of godliness: if they did absolutely & wholly depart from the faith, and not only from some pointes thereof? But over and above all, it seemeth by this reason, that not only the Apostles were mistaken, in giving us sure marks howe to know false teachers and false religions, 1 Tim. 1.2, 3. 2 Pet. 2.1. 2 Thes. 2.7. 2 Tim. 3.4. Revel. 17.5. But also Christ him self, when he said, Beware of false Prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravening wolves. And again If any shall say unto you, Loe, here is Christ, or there, believe it not: For there shall arise false Christ's and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, so that (if it were possible) they should deceive the very elect. Now if they should totally depart from the faith, what sheep's clothing, J pray you, should they have to come in? Or howe should either them selves be said to come in the name of Christ, affirming their Religion to be Christ's, and showing signs and wonders to draw men thereunto: Or the elect to be in such unspeakable danger to be deceived by them? This might suffice to show the falsehood and impiety of his answer: But we will note a few things moe therein. It being granted him, that the popish forbidding of marriage and meats, if they were not worse, doeth not make them departers from the faith totally: yet let him tell us, if holding never so many truths besides, yet forbidding these, they could by the word of God truly be said in that estate to hold the faith of Christ, and to be true Christians. If they could not (as the Apostle "testifieth) then is this answer in this respect also nothing to the purpose, but against him self, both for the popish forbidding of meats and marriages, and for the English Hyerarchie, and other abominations amongst them received from the Papists, which under color of this answer here he would defend. Again, where he saith, That the Papists fall frō Christ in other points besides the aforesaid, Namely, 1 The Papal supremacy. 2. The sacrifice of the Mass. 3. Justification by works: which England now is far from. Let him tell us: First, whether in this sense the Papists can for these be said to depart from the faith totally? If they cannot, then what weight is there in this for defense of their estate, that the Papists could not also allege for them selves, to wit, that in these points they depart from the faith, but not absolutely and wholly. Secondly, let him tell us, whether there are not other points but these three in the papists religion, which make them in their estate to be departers frō the faith, and consequently false Christians and false Churches? If there be (as he cannot deny it) then of what weight is his answer to defend the present constitution of these people and assemblies (for whom he pleadeth) seeing there are diverse other things besides these, that do and may cause, that they may not be deemed true Christians or true Churches in that estate.

Many heretics heretofore have, and at this day do reject these three aforesaid, are they therefore in their estate to be accounted true Christians or true Churches? So then, his manner of reasoning here for their defense, is, as if the Adulterers, to justify their course of life, should allege thus: We are no 1. Blaspemers, 2. no Persecutors, 3. No Murderers, as such and such are: therefore we depart not from the way of life, but our estate and course of life is good, and such as may be continued in. But the scripture teacheth otherwise, saying: Whosoever shall keep the whole Law, and yet faileth in one point, is guilty of all. For he that said, Thou shalt not commit adultery, said also, Thou shalt not kill. Now, though thou doest no adultery, yet if thou killest, thou art a transgressor of the Law: and contrariwise. So that whatsoever sins the Adulterer be far from, yet (as Solomon saith) He that committeth adultery with a woman, faileth in heart, and destroyeth his own soul. The same is the case of all spiritual Adulterers likewise: who (what so ever sins they be far from) yet in the worship of God, run a whoring after their own inventions, embracing the bosoms of strange women, & drinking of their cup of fornications. Thirdly, let him show us sufficient warrant frō the scriptures, why (setting these three aside) the other popish Hyerarchie and abominations received amongst them, cannot be judged to make them in such estate, departers from the faith, and therefore false Christians and false Churches, whatsoever truths they should hold beside. If he cannot (as who seeth not, that it cannot be donne?) then by this also it appeareth, that his answer • here is of no force for defense of their estate, but against it, as we have declared before.

Corah, Dathan, Abyram, and their partakers, were far from the Abominations of the Heathen, they held also all the points of faith, that Moses and Aaron held, differing only from them, and departing only from the faith, in a matter concerning the Priesthood, whereof also they shown their reasons why they were so persuaded: yet will he not deny, we suppose, but that they departed from the faith, and were in this estate neither to be accounted true Israelites, nor their assemblies true Churches, with which communion might be kept. If he should, the scripture it self would witness against him herein, Numb. 16.26. Now compare case with case, and time with time, and the estate of these people and Assemblies of England, will be found far more grievous, as we have already shown both in the defense of our Second Exception before, and in other Treatises to which yet we have received no answer.

To conclude this point, if their Abominations in England were far fewer then they are, yet so longe as they retain that poisonful leaven of their Hyerarchie and worship, we must tell them as the Scripture saith, and experience teacheth: That a little poison bringeth death unto the whole pot of pottage. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. And a few dead flies cause the oynctment of the Apothecary to stink and putrefy. Although indeed their abominations are not a few, but swarm in abundance amongst them, some whereof we have rehearsed before in the defense of our First Reason, where the Reader may take a view of them.

Now in the next place, fearing belike that the evidence of the scripture we alleged, could not by these shifts of his be avoided, but that still the reason deducted from thence stood strong against them, as we have shown it doeth: therefore he would have us now pass by them, and not apply this scripture to them, or their mother Church of Rome, but understand it of Martion the heretic, and Tatianus, of whom he saith, that they absolutely condemning marriage and certain meats, might indeed even therein wholly fall from the faith, somewhat like to Balaam, Judas, and those Apostate Israelites lately spoken of, namely for having their consciences convicted and seared with an hot iron: And thus (saith he) are they in no comparison with them of England: Well, But first if his former answer were of any weight, it might be asked, why then the followers of Martion and Tatianus, might not likewise have defended them thus, & said, that their departure from the faith, was but in some points, not wholly from all? Secondly we answer, that if this scripture was verified as he granteth) in Martion and Tatianus, for their condemning of marriage and meats, then we must needs also think it verified in the Romish whore, and her apostate children, which are fallen into the very sins, that are here mentioned. Teh Apostle mentioneth Martion and Tatianus, no more then he doeth the whoorish Babylon, and the children of her Fornication: but comprehendeth here all such who so ever they be, as shall fall into this Apostasy.

Now moreover, if the words of this scripture be duly weighed, & either other scriptures, or the estate of the Romish Harlott and her children compared therewith, it will be found as lively to describe these, as either Martion or any other that ever were in the world. First when the Apostle saith, that this shall be in the latter times, who seeth not that it doeth most directly point at the Romish whore, though we doubt not, but Martion also and Tatianus, which lived twelve hundredth years since, or thereabouts, may also be comprehended therein. Secondly, when it is said, they shall depart from the faith, thereby signifying that once they held the faith, howe plain is this of the Romish harlot, which in the Apostles time was the beloved spouse of God, and since is fallen into Apostasy, and become the Mother of whoredoms and abominations of the earth, as the scriptures in other places witnesseth. Thirdly, whē it is said, they shall give heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of Devils, how fitly agreeth this to the Romish Babylon which (as the scripture else where testifieth) is become the habitation of Devils, and the hold of all foul spirits? Fourthly when it is said, they shall speak lies through hypocrisy (not to reckon up the infinite particulars that might be alleged for proof hereof) how fitly doth this describe the Religion and practice of the man of sin (the Romish Antichrist) which the scripture else where calleth a mistery of iniquity: as pretending to be with and for Christ, and to draw men unto him, when indeed it is opposed against and exalted above the Lord Jesus Christ, and all his holy ordinances. Fifthly, when it is said, they shall have their consciences seared with an hot iron, how true is this found upon the throne of the Beast, & his Kingdom, concerning which, the scripture also testifieth in another place that when the vials of God's wrath shall be poured out upon them, and they convinced of their impieties and obominations, they shall be so far from acknowledging and forsaking thē, as they shall gnaw their tongues for sorrow, & rather thē they will forsak their wickedness, shall fight against God and his truth, blaspheaming the God of heaven for their pains & for their sores, & not repenting of their works. Lo here a seared conscience in the beasts kingdom. Finally, when the Spirit of God here giveth two particular instances of his apostasy. 1. The forbidding of Marriage, 2. And the commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving. How directly doeth he in both these, as it were with the finger, point at the Romish Babylon and her daughters? Jn the one, that is, the forbidding of marriage, when as the Romish Babylon forbiddeth it to Priests, Friers, Nuns, and such like, and the English her daughter, to fellows of Colleges, and prentises, and both of them, to all men and women in Lent, Advent, Rogation week, &c. Jn the other, that is, the forbidding of meats created of God to be received with thanksgiving, when as both of them, command to abstain from flesh, on their saints eues, Emberdayes, Lent, Fridays, and Satterdayes, throughout the year.

Thus then we have shown that this scripture (which he would turn over to Martion and Tatianus) doth most fitly agree unto, and most plainly describe the Romish Apostasy, whether we apply it to their present estate, or compare this and other scriptures together, speaking of the same Apostasy and defection. By this also which hath bone said, it may appear, that as he saith of Martion and Tatianus, that they might be said wholly to fall from the faith somewhat like to Balaam, Judas, and those apostate Israelites lately spoken of, namely for having their consciences convicted and seared with an hot iron: So also it is verified, and may be said of the Romish Babylon and her daughters. Touching which point of their convicted consciences, as also of the Apostate Israelites in particular, compared with them of England, see moreover what is said before in defense of the sixth Reason at the end thereof.

Now if seeing the evidence of this scripture, so full & plain against them (as hath been declared) he would except, that so it is in the Romish Church, but not in theirs of England: First by this means he would overthrow his own answer here, which hath denied it, of the popish forbidding of meats and marriages, and would turn it over from them to Martion and Tatianus: Secondly, this would not hinder but that the consequent of our Proposition and the Assumption also were good, and therefore the Argument strong and of force. Thirdly, the particulars before mentioned, (being found in their Church of England) will testify it also, to be verified of them. Lastly, although many of the abominations of the whores cup of Babylon be now cast out of England, (for which also we praise God) yet so long as they retain the Hyerarchie, Stinted Leyturgie, confusion of people, Canons, Excommunications, &c. derived unto them from that mother of whoredoms and abominations of the earth, we must needs believe and allege against them the scripture and common proverb which saith? As is the Mother, So is the Daughter. And hitherto of the defense of this reason.

Now moreover lett it here be observed, howe these men, to defend their estate, are glad to run into the Papists Tentes, and to take up their worn & rusty weapons, which have been of no force to defend them selves, but have been often & justly turned into their own bowels. Read the Reames Annotations upon this place (1. Tim. 4. ) and see if these men here would not avoid the evidence of this scripture against them, by the very same shift and answer, by which the detestable Jesuits there would turn it from their mother of Rome, that is, by posting it over from them selves to Martion and Tatianus. Read it, and note it well.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 8. Reason.

FOr answer of our said Eight Reason, he referreth us to those answers of his, to the last Reason, which he saith doth fully and flatly' satisfy this also, for the proposition and Assumption. But this which he saith, we have in the defense of that Reason, declared to be altogether untrue: Therefore yet we have received no answer, either to that Reason, or this. That thus it standeth we refer the Reader for it unto that which is said in defense of that Reason aforesaid: wishing the Reader moreover to observe, both there and here in his answer to the Reason following, that the power of the truth so prevaileth against them, as they cannot but grant, that they depart from and deny the faith, in their ministry, worship and government ecclesiastical, as appeareth in their Canons, book of Common prayer, Articles, Injunctions, persecutions, &c. All which being mentioned unto them as proofs thereof, in these several reasons: when now they should defend these particulars, if they would maintain their standing, behold they are as mute as a fish therein: and not that only, but in their answer to the next Reason following, grant unto us, that in these things we may and ought to separate from them. Which is directly to yield us the cause: Thus soundly they answer us, and dispute for themselves.

F. IOHNSON his Defense of his 9. Reason.

VNto our Nineth Reason aforesaid, he answereth: That it is a Fallacy: separate from such: Ergo separate wholly. But howe shows he any fallacy to be in our Reason? He bids us see his answer above to our third Exception, also his answers to the two last Reasons of all. Well we have seen them, and find nothing there but against himself, as there hath been shown. So this Reason then, as the rest also, still stands unanswered, and strong against them. And that we may not doubt, but him self also seeth it to be so, how soever he seemeth to plead to the contrary before: therefore now he granteth it (and so yields us the cause) both in express words, and by not defending the 17. points of false doctrine, wherewith they were charged, neither their own Cannons, Articles, Injunctions, &c. alleged against them. In express words, whē he saith, they grant, that so far forth as they hold otherwise then truth, so far we may and ought to separate from them. Loe here what the evidence of the truth (against which they have struggeled so longe) hath now at length drawn from them. The truth is mighty, and prevaileth. But he addeth, that we must not separate from them any further, then as before: not wholly or absoluteiy: and so saith he, the Apostle here meaneth. Well, but let us here know what this mā himself meaneth hereby: If he mean that we must not for their other defectiō forsake the truths which they hold. We answer that we do it not, as him self knoweth: and in this sense also his meaning should come nothing near the Apostles meaning. Themselves say they have separated from the Papists: yet he neither ean nor will say, that they have forsaken the truths which the papists held, notwithstanding that they have made separation from them. But if he mean, that because of the truths which they profess, therefore we should not separate from them: then First he contradicteth him self, having granted that we must separate from them, so far forth as they hold otherwise then truth. Secondly, he condemneth their own practze in their separation from the Papists, notwithstanding the truths they profess. Thirdly, in this sense also his meaning should come nothing near the Apostles meaning. Thus therefore it is evident, both that there is no fallacy in our reason, but that it is plain and forceable against them: And moreover, that he hath directly in express words yielded us the cause, and acknowledged our separation from their assemblies, ministry, worship, &c. And as he doeth this in express words, so also he showeth it in deed, in that he leaveth without all defense (as unlawful and to be separated from) their Ministry, Worship, and Gouuernement Ecclesiastical, the 17. points of false doctrine objected against them, and their Canons, Articles, Injunctions, &c. mentioned both here, and more particularly in the First and Second Reasons going before: Which thing we wish the Reader well to observe. And because we are fallen again into mention of the 17. points of false doctrine, to the end that the Reader may yet more see the deceitfulness of his dealing and insufficiency of all his answers here and before: therefore it shall not be yrke some to set down here before the Readers, those 17. points of false doctrine aforesaid, specially seeing they are but short. They are these as followeth.

Poinctes of false doctrine delivered and spread abroad by the Writings, Sermons, and practice of the forward Preachers of the Parish assemblies of England: with answers to the same.
• 1 That though the open notorious obstinate offenders be partakers of the Sacraments, yet neither the: Sacraments, nor the people that join with them, are defiled thereby. Which doctrine is contrary to the truth of God in these scriptures, 1 Cor. 10, 17. Hag. 2.14, 15. 1 Cor. 5.6. and 10.28 2 Cor. 6.15, 18. Gal. 5.9. Mat. 18.8, 9, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19. Exod. 12.43. Levite. 15.4, 5, 6, 7, 31. and 11.24. and 23, 45, 46. and 19.17. Num. 5.2, 3. and 19.21, 22. Joshua 11.12. Ezra 6.21.22. Ier. 3.1.
• 2 That the planting or reforming of Christ's Church must tarry for the Civil magistrate, and may not otherwise be brought in by the word & spirit of God in the mouths of his weakest servants, except they have authority from earthly Princes: Which doctrine is against the Kinglie power of Christ, and these scriptures, Mat, 28.18. Acts 3.23. 1 Cor. 1. 27. Psal. 2.6, 9, 10, 12. Isaiah 9.6, 7. Zach. 4.6. and 6.12.23. Dan. 2.44. and 7.27. and 9.25. Mich. 5.7. Mat. 28.20. 1 Cor. 14.27. with 1 Thes. 4.8. Phil. 2.6, 12. 1 Tim. 6.13, 14.15. Rene. 1.5. and 14.12. and 17.14. & 19 16. and 20.4.
• 3 That the true visible Church of Christ is not a separated company of righteous men and women, from the Jdolaters and open wicked of the world, but may consist of all sortes of people good & bad: Which doctrine is contrary to the pattern of Christ's Church, throughout all the scriptures. Gen. 4.26. with 6.2. Exod. 4.22, 23. Levite. 10.10. and 20.24, 25, 26 Psal. 24.3, 4. Ezra 6.21. 2 Chron. 11.13, 16. Nehem. 10.28. Eze. 22.26. with 44.23. Zeph. 3.4. Mat. 3.10, 12. Act. 2.40, 41, 42. and 19.9. Rom. 12.1, 8. 2 Cor. 6.17, 18. 1 Pet. 2.9, 10. Reu. 14.9, 12. and 18.4. and 21.27 and 22.14, 15. &c.
• 4 That they may maintain this error of their confused order and mixture of all sortes of persons together, they pervert the Parable of the tares, Mat. 13.24. teaching that all are the Church: Which doctrine is against the truth of the scriptures, yea against our Saviors own interpretation in the 38. verse, who teacheth, that by the field is meant (not the Church) but the world, in which his Church is milatāt. And as therein there is the good seed, the righteous, the Children of the Kingdom: So there are also tares, hypocrites, the childrē of the wicked, who as they are often espied in this life, by the righteous servants of God, so shall they in that great day be perfectly severed from the godly by the Angels of God, verse 38.43. This their doctrine also is against the heavenly orders mentioned, Matt. 18.8, 9, 15, 16, 17. 1 Corint. 1.26.29. Acts 2.40.41, 47. and 5.26, 27, 28. and 19, 9. and 5.4, 7. 2 Cor. 6.17, 18. Levite. 18.29. 1 Tim. 6.5. 2 John verse 6.11. Revel. 2. and 3. and 14.9.12 and 18.4. and 20.4.
• 5 That the people may tolerate and join with open iniquity in the Church, until by the Magistrate it be redressed: which doctrine is contrary to these riptures, 2 Cor. 10.4, 5. Mat. 28.21. Acts. 2.40. & 3.23. and 4.19. and 9.26. and 19.9. 1 Tim. 5.22. Deu. 5.32.
• 6 That the gifts of interpretation and application of the Scriptures are a sufficient and lawful calling to the ministry, &c. Which doctrine is both false and Anabaptistical, contrary to the scriptures, Heb. 5.4. Rom 12.6, 7, 8. Levite. 22.25. Ezek. 44.8, 9, &c. Num. 1.51. and 3.10, 38 and 16.40. and 18.2 3, 4. Act. 1.20.26. and 14.23. and 13.2.3.
• 7 That the Church may yield obedience unto other laws, cannons, and traditions, officers and offices, then God hath prescribed in his Conenant. Which doctrine is contrary to Gen. 49.10. Mal. 6.24. John 10, 4, 5. Ren. 14.4. and 22, 18, 19. Heb. 3, 1, &c:
• 8 That the Church may read other men's words upon a book, and offer them up to God as their own prayers and sacrifices in the public Assemblies: Which doctrine is contrary to the scriptures, Isaiah 29.13, 14. Rom. 8.26. 1 Cor. 14.15. Mat. 6.6.9. and 15.9. Mar. 7.7. Ephe. 4.7, 8. 1 Pet. 2.5.
• 9 That it is lawful to join with the Ministry of dumb and Jdoll Priests, and to receive the Sacraments at their hands: Which doctrine is contrary to, Mal. 15.14. and 7.19. and 24.24, 25. John. 10.1.5. Num. 16, 5, 9, 24, 26, 39, 40, &c. 1 Tim 6.5.2. John verse 6.11
• 10 That it is lawful for a Minister of Christ, to cease preaching, & forsake his flock, at the Commandment of a Lord Bishop: Which doctrine is contrary to, 1 Cor. 9.16. Isaiah 62.4, 6, 7. Ier. 48.10. Zach. 11.17. John 10.11, 12, 13. Acts 4.18, 19, 20, and 5.29. Amos 7.12, 13, 14, 15. 2 Tim. 4.2.
• 11 That the Church of Christ hath not always power to bind and loose, to receive in, and to cast out by the Keys of the Kingdom: Which doctrine is contrary to Mat. 18.17, 18. Psal. 149.9. 1 Cor. 5.4, 5.12, Num. 5, 2, 3.
• 12 That it is lawful for the people of God to hear notorious false prophets in their Ministry: Which doctrine is contrary to Deut. 18.15. Mat. 17.5. and 7.15.2 John verse 10.11. 1 Cor. 10.18. Gala. 1, 8, 9. Revel. 14 9, 10, 11. and 18.4. John 10.96.
• 13 That it is the Church and house of God, the body and kingdom of Christ, where he reigneth not by his own Ordinances & Officers, but the highest Ecclesiastical authority is in the hands of strange Lord's, and Antichristian Prelates, who also govern by Romish Cannons, and not according to the laws of Christ's Testament: Which doctrine and practice is condemned by Luke 19.14, 27. John 15.14. Rom. 6.16. Luke 22.25, 26. 1 Pet. 3.2 Thes. 2 3.4. John 3.35.36. Revel. 9.3. and 14.9.10.11 and 19.14.15.
• 14 That there may be a prescript Leiturgie and set form of service in the Church, framed by man: which doctrine is contrary to Deut. 5.8. Isaiah 29.13, 14. Mat. 15.9. and 7.6.7. Gal. 3.15. John 4.24. Rom. 8.26.27. Ephe. 4.7.8.
• 15 That an Antichristian Prelate, notwithstanding his dignity (as it is called) spiritual, may be a Civil Magistrate, and obeyed of the people as their lawful governor, Which doctrine is contrary to Rom. 13.1, &c. Mat. 20.25, 26. Mar. 10.42, 43. Luke 22.25, 26. Revel. 14.9, 10, 11. and 17.18.
• 16 That men may give the titles of Christ Jesus unto these sons of men, and his mortal enemies, to call them their Arch and Lord Bishops, Reverend Fathers, &c. Which doctrine is contrary to Mat. 23, 8, 9, 10. Isaiah 42.8. and 48.11. Pro. 17.15. and 24.24. Isaiah 5.20. 2 Cor. 6.14.17.
• 17 That it is lawful for a Minister of Christ to be maintained in his ministry, by the goods of wicked and unbelievers, by Jewish and Popish tithes and offerings: Which doctrine is contrary to Prov. 27.26, 27. 1 Cor. 9.13, 14. Phil. 4.10.18. Gal. 6.6. Rom. 15.27. Heb. 7.12.

These are the 17 points which were mentioned before in the proof of this reason: which the adversary hath left altogether unanswered, as he hath done also their own Cannons, Articles, and Injunctions: which are to be seen in their printed books. And thus is he driven again & again whether he will or not, to yield us the cause.

That which he addeth in the next place, of their not wholly denying the truth, nor fundamentally, nor obstinately, peruerslie, and desperatlie any parte thereof, is answered before in the defense of our second Exception, and of our sixth and seventh Reasons.

Now, when he next saith, That they are not herein like those Jews (Act. 19.9.) whom Paul separated from, which he did not from all other Jews, Acts 13.14. and 16, 3: and 21, 23, 24, 26. and 3.1. Firste we ask, What if they be not in all respects like unto those Jews, are they not therefore to be separated from? So in deed he would conclude in this place, But then let him tell us, if Corah, Dathan and Abiram, the Apostate Jews under Jeroboam, the Corinthians, Papists, &c: might not allege some particular exception, wherein they were not like to those Jews, Act. 19. Might not therefore separatiō be made from these? The scripture teacheth otherwise, Numb. 16.25, 26. 2 Chrō. 11.14. 2 Cor. 6.17, Reu. 18.4 Secondly, consider the place it self (Act. 19.9. ) & compare it with their estate & practice in England, & see if there be not now as great and just cause to separate from thē, as frō the other. Are not these now hardened against the truth? Let their writings against it, their imprisonning, banishing, and killing, for it, give evidence. Do they not disobey it? Let their constitution and practice be witness. Speak they not evil of the way of God before the multitude? Let the Sermons of their Ministers in the pulpit, & the speeches of the Prelates in their Courtes, bear record: Therefore saith that Scripture (Acts 19 ) they are to be departed and separated from. Wherevnto also may be added in this case that which Peter saith Act. 2 Save yourselves from this froward generation. Thidly were he objecteth That Paul did not separate frō all the other Jews, as he did from these, Acts 19. and showeth it by Act. 13.14. and 16.3. & 21, 23, 24▪ 26. & 3.1 we answer, that the Apostles had good and just cause so to do. For first the Jews were the people of God, separated from the world, and set in the true waand order of God. Secondly, Christ commanded the Apostles, when he sent them to preach his Gospel, throughout the world, that they should first preach it to the Jews. Thirdly, the Jews ministry & ceremonies being the ordinances of God him self, and given in writing by Moses the man of God, were therefore now, when they should cease, to be buried with honor. These things considered, we see the Apostles had just cause so to do, as they did in those places mentioned: But what is this to the assemblies of England, which never yet were separated from the world, nor set in the way and order of Christ, but stand in the confusion and defection of Antichrist, whose ministry also and worship, were never the ordinances of God, But taken out of the whores Cup of Babylon, for which likewise God never gave Comaundement to go unto them, but to depart from them, as being daughters of the great Babylon that mother of whoredoms and abominations of the earth. Again even from those Jews, notwithstanding the reasons aforesaid, yet when they put from them the truth, and would not receive it, the Apostles departed and separated thē selves, yea and shook off the dust of their feet against them, teaching others to do so likewise, Acts 13.46, 51. and 18.6. & 28, 25, 26, 27, 28. and 20.40. and 19.8, 9.

To that of Master Cranmer, Ridley, &c is answered before. And hitherto of their general Assumption, which was this: That the whole doctrine as it is professed and publicly practiced by law in England, is sufficient to make a particular man a true Christian. Which we have shown to be untrue, both by the Exceptions and Reasons aforesaid, which still stand firm against them, as is manifest by this our defense.

Touching the conclusion:

And now let the godly Reader (trying all things by the word of truth) judge, whether we or they hold Paradoxes.

Touching that he saith of the reformed Churches, he is deceived, if he think they allow their present estate and church constitution. Both their public profession and practice witness the contrary: as we have declared at large in other treatises, which yet remain unanswered, whereunto we refer the Reader in this behalf.

Where he saith, That we our selves heretofore have acknowledged and professed it, (to wit their general Assumption aforesaid to be true) he is also deceived therein: we have always testified the contrary, both by our profession and practice, and were and are therefore cast into prison, appointed to exile, and put to death: besides many other injuries & grievances inflicted upon us for this very cause. In deed we have acknowledged and do acknowledge, that they profess diverse excellent truths, but that the whole doctrine, as it is publiquelie professed and practiced by law in England, doeth make them in that estate true Christians, never any of us (that we know of) did once acknowledge. And therefore till he show us the contrary, we must needs think that he falsely burtheneth us all, and specially such of us, as he hath mentioned here in particular.

To that which he next addeth of the Martyrs in Queen Mary's days is answered already in the defense of our Seconde Exception and First Reason, whereunto may be added for more evidence of the truth, the particular speeches & testimonies of the holy Martyrs them selves, both then and in former times.

As of Master Bradford, who speaking of the days before Queen Marie) said, The time was, when the Pope was out of England, but not all popery. And moreover, That the scripture knoweth not any difference between Bishops and Ministers, which men call Priests. And that the scripture speaking of Bishops, cannot be understood of Bishops that minister not, but lord it.

Also of Master Hooper, who held and published, that a Bishop should be Bishop but of one City: and that till the Magistrates bring them to this point, it shall be as possible to hear a Bishop wade, godly and simply through the scripture in case of Religion, as to drive a Camel through the eye of a needle. And again he saith:

And John Bale, an exile for the testimony of Jesu, writing upon the Revelation, affirmeth moreover,

And again writing upon the 14. chapter of the Revelation, he hath these words:

Likewise may be shown by the testimony of others in former times, as of John Wycliffe, who held and affirmed: That Archbishops, Bishops, Archdeacons, Officials, Deans, Cannons, were disciples of Antichrist.

In like manner of William Swinderby, who said that what Pope, Cardinal, Bishop, Prelate or Priest, in manner of living, or teachching, or laws making, contrary to Christ's living & his laws, or any other ground put in ruling of the Church of Christ, but by Christ and his laws, is very Antichrist, adversary to Jesus Christ and his Apostles.

Also Syr John old Castle Lord Cobham who held & affirmed, that the Bishops, Priests, Prelates, and Monks, were the body of the great "Antichrist: And that the possessions and Lordships of the Clergy, were the "venom of Judas shed into the Church.

Likewise John Cladon burnt in Smithfield, held & professed, that the Archbishops, & Bishops, speaking indifferently, are the seats of the beast Antichrist, when he sitteth in them and reigneth above other people in the dark Calves of errors and heresies. Moreover that the Bishops license for a mā to preach the word of God, is the true character of the beast, that is, Antichrist.

Finally William Tyndale and John Frith, held and publissed, That Archb. Lordb. Archdeacons, Deans, Officials, Parsons, Vicars, and the rest of that sort, are the disciples of Antichrist, yea very Antichrists themselves.

These are the speeches and testimonies of the holy Martyrs in former ages, whereunto diverse other such like might be added. But these may suffice for the matter in hand. And now compare with these things alleged, the public profession & practice of England even as it is by law at this day, and see whether their own proofs be not so many witnisses against themselves. But if it were so, that the reformed Churches, we our selves, and the Martyrs of former time, had given allowance of their present estate & Church constitution, what would this help thē, when all the word of God condemneth thē, as we have shown in our Reasons aforesaid & defense thereof. Whereunto (if they will still justify their estate) we require direct answer from point to point, and that from the scriptures, which only can stablish the conscince.

Now furthermore, that the truth it self, and their estate may better appear what it is, as also that they may not turn away or obscure the truth by their subtle shifts and evasions, as their manner is: we will therefore propound unto them a few questions concerning the points now in controversy in this land, desiring their plain and sincere answers, thereunto by the word of God, as they will answer him in his great day.

The questions are these.
• 1 Whether the Lord Jesus Christ have by his last Testament given unto and set in his Church sufficient ordinary 1. Offices, with their 2. Callings, 3. Works, and 4. Maintenance for the administration of his holy things, and for the sufficient ordinary instruction, guidance and service of his Church to the end of the world, or no.
• 2 Whether the Offices of Pastors, Teachers, Elders, Deacons, and helpers, be those offices appincted by Christ in his last Testament as aforesaid.. Or whether the present ecclesiastical Offices of Archbishops, Lordbishops, Suffragans, Deans, Prebendaries, Cannons, Petticannos, Gospellers, Pistlers, Uirgirers Queristers, Organ-players, Priests, Deacons or, half Priests, Archdeacons, Doctors of divinity, Batchelers of divinity, Chaplyns or House-priests, Commissaries, Officials, Procters, Apparitors; Parsons, Uicars, Curates, Uagrant or Mercinary preachers, Churchwardens, Sidemen, Clerks, Sextons, and the rest now had in these Cathedral and parishional assemblies be those offices appointed by Christ in his last Testament as is aforesaid, or no.
• 3 Whether the Callinges and entrance into these Ecclesiastical offices last aforesaid, their Administration, and Maintenance, now had and received in England, be the manner of calling, administration, & maintenance which Christ hath appointed for the offices of his church above named, or no.
• 4 Whether every true visible church of Christ be not a company of people called and separated out from the world by the word of God, and joined together in fellowship of the Gospel, by voluntary profession of the faith and obedience of Christ? And whether the present ecclesiastical assemblies of this Land be such: or no.
• 5 Whether the Sacraments (being seals of the righteousness which is by faith) may be delivered to any other then to the faithful and their seed, or in any other ministry and manner then is appointed by Jesus Christ the Apostle and high Priest of our profession? And whether they be not otherwise administered in the Cathedral and parishional assemblies of England at this day.
• 6 Whether their book of Common prayer with the Feasts, Fasts, and Holy days, stinted prayers, and Liturgy prescribed therein, and used in these assemblies, be the true worship of God commanded in his word, or the devise or invention of man, for God's worship and service.
• 7 Whether all people and Churches without exception be not bound in Religion, only to receive and submit unto that ministry, worship, and order, which Christ as Lord and King, hath given and appointed to his Church? Or whether in Religion, any may receive or join unto, another ministry, worship and order devised by man, for the service of God? And consequently, whether they which join to the present ecclesiastical ministry, worship, and order of these cathedral and parishional assemblies, can be assured by the word of God, that they join unto the former appointed by Christ, and not to the latter devised by man, even the man of sin, for the worship and service of God.

Unto these questions and the particulars thereof, for the causes aforesaid, we desire their direct answer, with proofs of their answers from the scriptures, according to which word if they speak not as we said before, so we say again, with the Prophet Isaiah: It is because there is no light in them.

And now to conclude, whereas this man being not able to answer our Reasons (as hath been declared) yet would in the ende of his writing, fasten upon us some strange passion, yea and mere desperatnes, for separating from them, and answering of them as we have done. We leave it the godly and discrete Reader to judge by that which hath been said on both parts, whether it be not themselves which are taken with a strange passion, and driven there unto by mere desperatnes, when as to maintain their estate they will have the scriptures to fall, (as hath been seen in their answers before,) yea and exalt the Church, and Magistrate above Christ himself, even flesh and blood above God, blessed forever. But for this and oll their unrighteous dealing against the truth and people of God, we leave them to the Lord, who searcheth the hearts, & trieth the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his works. That is, to them that by continuance in well-doing seek glory, and honor, and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious: and disobey the truth, and obey unrighteousness, indignation, and wrath, Jer. 17.10. with Rom. 2.6, 7, 8.