Reproof of Howlets Untimely Shrieking

IN the two first sections & pages of your Epistle (M. Howlet ) are two causes alleged for the dedication of the whole treatise to her Majesty, taken from the Authors person, and the matter, cunningly to get thereby good will, to prepare and stir up attention, which together with the amplifications of your pretended extremities, and the like necessity of complaint you are brought unto, your exaggerations on the one side, and extenuations on the other, with such ornaments and flowers to move pity, if they were true, and in a good and just cause, might for their pretty handeling delight, & have some use, saving they be somewhat too open. As school furniture to move with, they may be kept for the exercise of youth, or to sport and refresh men's minds withal. This floorishing greatly beseemeth not the profession and persons of Divines. In a word to say, everything considered, there is no cause why you should have troubled her Majesty with such paltrie, whereof let the Christian Reader after examination judge. The Authors dutiful respect every way, and M. Howlets too, to her Highness, her honorable Lord's of the Council, and the whole state of her noble Realm, might without vaunt, have been left to have been judged by her Majesty's wisdom and theirs, and to have had commendation by other, whē it should have been found better then it is. These men seek by all means & ways they can to disjoin her Majesty from her laws, and the Ministers thereof, & from her loyal subjects to: they go about to withdraw with themselves other her subjects from obedience to God and her Majesty, and when this dealing is by order of law but somewhat crossed, then is outcry and complaint of tyranny and cruelty greater then ever hath been heard of in England before, or is in any prince in Christendom, or than is used among the Turks at this day. This comparison is not M. Howlet ashamed to make, and therein agreeth with his author. This is great dutifulness sure. Like is the modesty and humility of both your spirits, saving that if there be any difference, M. Howlets in a diverse kind of writing showeth it self to be more shameless, as through the whole too much appeareth, dealing especially with the Queens most excellent Majesty. He may not think the Orators rule, (that an Epistle biusheth not) will serve his turn here, it is out of place to excuse thereby impudent untruths, and slanders. In perusing this writing let the Christian Reader still judge whether M. Howlet be not a sectarie, if this be a note of a sectaries spirits proceeding, as he here tells us, what modesty and humbleness of spirit may this be called in the Author of this treatise, who is so highly in this respect commended here by M. Howlet. When not contented through his whole discourse to compare and liken the profession and professors of the Gospel to the Heretics both old and new, he chargeth God's service here now used with falsehood, and blasphemy also, and pronounceth us to be condemned yet alive, but no marvel, when he chargeth some Catholics at this day in England of his own Religion to sin even now against the holy Ghoste and damneth the same in Hell, being yet quick on the earth, &c. I give the Reader but a taste of this Luciferian spirit, till we may come further into the examination of things: M. Howlet excuseth this with zeal and the writers opinion in religion, a hot & too immoderate a zeal, destitute of knowledge, It may well be called his discoursers opinion in religiō, which carrieth w ^t it neither religion nor conscience. Such zeal might have regarded better and spared the Princes ears, and might have been forborne in our Sovereigns presence. What want of dutiful respect soever it carry toward other. You take yourself by the nose while you think to charge us to be sectaries; for the intemperate spirit of sectaries resteth in none more than in the hot sect of your puritane Jesuits, and such as you are, who taking unto you men's names, and orders to be called Religious men by, declare yourselves to be sectaries in Christ's Church, whereas we for our Religion, hold of God, Christ, and the holy Scriptures which all agree and go one way. We devide not Christ, neither are we Franciscans, Augustine's, Iacopines, no Scotistes, Thomistes. &c. Nor yet Lutherans, Calvinists, &c. which names you odiously put upon us, and we condemn and refuse the same. These be names of sects, I leave the further consideration hereof to the discreet reader, and proceed. It is to great a brag made of M. Howlet, when in praising his writers private opinion in religion, he saith: It hath been from time to time the common received religion of universal Christendom. This should have been proved or let alone, more modesty of speech even here would have better beseemed, til trial might have been taken thereof: but he telleth us, but what seemeth to himself in praising his fellow. We say it is a great untruth if he and his discourse be of one opinion in religion, and as easily as it is spoken, so easily may it be rejected, though as one of the principles of their Catholic Religion, they would have all men suppose it. But we can suppose no such gross absurdities in this clear light of the Gospel, nor admit the same. Besides there be a great many Catholics, as they call them at this day in Christendom, that be not of that opinion in Religion, that this discourse setteth us down in his letter and treatise, as they that lift to read, may understand, yea even those, for whom this treatise was made, dissent from the Authors opinion in Religion, as he himself confesseth: so as this writers zeal and opinion 〈◊〉 hardly be counted The common received religion of vniuetsall Christendom. There be also as this man speaketh, good Catholics, and bad Catholics: true Catholics, and false Catholics: cold Catholics, and hot Catholics. And if among protestants M. Howlet can make these terms (hot, and cold) &c. to sever religion, as for his vauntage he doth in the next section of his epistle, let his Authors description and confession be judge of the men and their profession there mentioned, called Protestants, and Puritans which his author saith are the hotter sort of protestants: then let them give us leave also to say their hot and cold Catholics. &c. be of diverse religions, and by their own rule let us call that colder sort or the false and the worser by the common name of Catholics: & y ^e hotter sort of Catholics let us cal Puri tanes, because they are precise in y ^e religiō, & show thenselves unspotted servants and irreprehensible, as this discourser spaketh.

M. Howlet talketh of speaking and writing in defense of their religiō, how manfully it shall be done, as long as there is either head or hand remaining loosein the world: but let thē leave fire & faggot, and their bloody laws, and they shall be written and talked with, well enough, I doubt not, yea and easily enough entreated too, as God be thanked and her Majesty, their hands be tied now, when they were loose they had shrewde arguments, such as I even now spake of, and yet God to his glory and their shame, gave them that matched with them even then, received their arguments, and soluted them, remaining themselves still by God's power invincible. Since that time their religion hath gained but little by speaking and writing, and I hope shall every day less then other, so mighty is the 〈◊〉 of truth, and prevaileth. I see not why we here may not make as great account of Christ's Religion professed in this Church as you do of your friends private opinion, and think and say as well of it and without brag tell you, 〈◊〉 religion hath been from time to time, The common received religion of universal Christendom, & so can 〈◊〉 so soon be abandoned, for you and your fellows, 〈◊〉 , and disliking, &c. We (who set no new religion abroch, nor confess & acknowledge any other then the only true religion of 〈◊〉 Christ, grounded on the writings of the Prophets and Apostles, and taken thence) may better avow & prove our religiō, then you can your friendsopiniō, which vpō brag without proof, you so confidētly boast of.

The matter your Author treateth of, seemeth to you, great, weighty, and important, to Godward, to her Majesty, and to many a thousand of her Majesty's best subjects. This is the other and second cause of your dedication of this piece of work to her Majesty; here want no words to amplify that withal, which wanteth matter to uphold it, and is nothing but words. You tell us what seemeth you, both of your friend and the matter, you can do little; if in words you cannot commend them both, if that will serve the turn; you have said your mind, and given them your good word, your opinion is not rested upon; the colors of your Rethoricke carry show, but move not. One must try, prove, and look into the thing, as into the man also, that you praise. First we wish the matter were important to God's cause, to her Majesty's soul, estate, and Realm, and to the estate of her graces faithful subjects. Then were it in deed a thing meet to be presented to such a Prince as is our dread Sovereign, and to come into her royal presence. But all is clean contrary, there is as much as you can perform in this discourse to hurt & hinder gods cause, her Majesty's soul, estate, & Realm, & to poison and infect, and thereby to alienate the minds of y ^e good subjects of this land, from their dutiful obedience to God, & their lawful and most loving dread Sovereign & ours, if you could do more hurt, we should be sure of it: but we 〈◊〉 God against you for our defense, whom we humbly beseech either to turn you; or to prevent & overthrow all your wicked devises. For particular proof of things we refer it to trial upon reading that both partes write, & in a word, deny here still that you say, and but say in words.

In this second sectiō of your Epistle, you increase y ^e troubles too much, y ^e you imagine to be here, & therein too undutifully also use yourself towards our Sovereign, her laws, councellers, & ministers. After you have once menxioned it only, you leave quite out (without prosecuting) gods cause, her majesties soul, estate, & realm, which were your principal commendations of y ^e matter, before you follow & set out like an Orator for your commodity, the pretended afflictions of yourself, & other your friends y ^e papists here. This matter you amplify, here you are carried with full wind & sails, (as they speak) What: Such afflictiō & extremity of many a thousand of her graces most loving, faithful, & duetiful subjects, as never was heard of before in England, & that for their consciences. (Thus you too often̄ cal Popish 〈◊〉 & treason.) You write of a great matter now, if it were true. There is no doubt, but you & your fellows give this forth in speech & writing where ever you become, that dare so boldly avouch it in printe & before her Majesty. I remember besides other, what your seditious Sanders in an Epiftle before his visible Monarchy of the Church reporteth of the cruelty of this his country, as though there were some mafsacre, or the shedding of many martyrs blood, here in her Majesty's most mild government: as I remember also his too vile, lewd, & slanderous report in y ^e same book, for y ^t her Majesty hath been forced to execute some vile traitors for their too just deserts, which I here only touch by the way: because I treat thereof at large else where. You would make the world believe that all your stirs here have not risē of nothing, as though you had had great occasion ministered for your seditious & rebellious attempts, frō time to time. I blame you not in respect of yourselves & your epistle that cannot blush, but I blame you for sclandering her Majesty, & the state, & realm, you would make many think y ^t we are not our selves, or very fools y ^t cannot see nor understand of that at home, which you by here say, being so far off, can tell us upon report: but fame and report, you must remember, going far gaineth in carriage, and evil will was never given to say well, you would induce other, and her Majesty also to think there were yet some bloody and butcherly Bishops, like (ye wote whom) yet in her Realm, unknown unto her highness unless to the great rejoicing of her subjects hearts, she went often and often among them both far & near, and had better intelligence of the estate of her whole Realm and all her subjects, than you can give her, & better opinion and liking also of the Ministers of her Majesty's laws, than you would she had, massacres, and hot burning execution have been and are the weapons of your side, know the Authors and make much of the executioners. You should remember, me thinketh in what you deal, and with whom, our sovereign is merciful, mild, & pitiful, where she is not to much provoked, as (swelt your harts) you cannot deny, nay you grant it, though it be to your own shames y ^t so far & so much provoke her gentle nature: but she is (you must understand) with other qualities, godly, wise, and upright, way what that and the royal estate and dignity of her crown and authority require at her hands, your conceived griefs and necessity should not make you roue so far without the compass of the truth, as impudētly to suggest so manifest false things, such Hyperboles, that is, excessive speeches are scarcely currant, and yet your writing is full of them. Righteous lips are the delight of Kings, and the King loveth him that speaketh right things, saith the wise man.

Surely M. Howlet, if you mark your usage thorough your whole Epistle this way, you may think yourself very gently dealt withal, if you leese but your request, and that you seek: for the law is that a lying petitioner or suitor should be frustrate of the thing he had obtained, and thereupon another saith: That it is good right in plea of Court, that he that is found to suggest a lie, should take no profit by that he getteth that way, & you in thus dealing deserve no better. Your matter is not only false: but a great slander, her Majesty and her laws to afflict any for their consciences': If it were any, sure it were not you, whē in your respect she is so far of, that many insolences having been committed openly by your Catholics to the disturbance of her quiet estate, and the Church and common wealth, have yet been pardoned & let go. Except, you may lawfully and at pleasure do what you list, without check or controlment, ye are afflicted. Alack their while: But look into the former government, when they of your side commanded. The dealings of your sect have of late been so violent, that her Majesty to her great charges & trouble (we confess) hath been enforced to look narrowlier unto you than hitherto, as well to repress rebels that came frō your holy father y ^t Pope, as to cut thē shorter, y ^t to confidētly & openly go still about to kindle a new fire, providing as much as conueniētly may be, y ^t they shall do no harm: to tendre moreover her simple poor subjects y ^t are sought to be poisoned with the Roman & Popish religion. If there be any straitness herein, who hath procured & enforced it? Look to that M. How. & on that side. Of il usages & doings spring many times good laws. Ye talk of many a thousand: but if with your Author you auowe none but such as will not come to Church here, nor take the oath of obedience to her Majesty condemning other, evē of your own religiō, some to hell, some other wise; ye may spare this exces sieve speech of: Manye a thousand: it may be & is likely, ye have infected some few, which are to many, with your late reconciliation joined with subtle perswasiō, which was the end of your coming frō the Pope into England, & for which disturbance ye justly suffer. Rude, simple, & ignorant people, womē especially are easily seduced in Parishes where there is little or no preaching of the Gospel, her Majesty's godliness & wisdom, and the States, will of pity I doubt not, provide they may be better instructed, & submitting themselves to God and her Majesty quietly, will not only generally send abroad such as shall break unto thē by doctrine and preaching the bread of life for their souls confortably to feed on, & like good Pastors dwell among thē, to help them in need, & to drive all Popish wolves & the like away: But like a tendre mother also, she will bear more with their imperfections, than the Pope and you Catholics do, that send thē quick to hell. And in deed here, & with these & the conscience of such weakeones, is the place & time of bearing, til they may be advanced, who (for coming to church here, & simply & unfeignedly seeking the comfort of their souls, though possibly, not so thoroughly yet & fully persuaded in all points of religion, for lack of instruction, as were to be wished) are so hardly handled by you false Catholics. A weak conscience in these, keeping quiet, may be tendered & a time borne with, & by instruction further aduāced. If after so long preaching of the Gospel among us there be any such found, as in out quarters of her Majesty's dominions, I fear there be to many. With you fiery, stubborn, & rebellious Catholics, pretend what you will, you are so gross, & your matter so open & plain, yea so violent &, unreasonable as neither time, place nor reason can bear with you, except you reap̄t & amende. Remēber this Church & state may answer you, with that holy father cited & allowed by your D. Thomas. Who would not have you nor any heretics perish, but the house of David (as he saith) otherwise deserved not to have peace, except his son Absalom had perished or been slain in the battle, that he moved against his father, so the Catholic church (that is not you that will needs take y ^e name, & have but y ^e bare name) but y ^e true church of Christ if it gather y ^e rest, by destroying some, it healeth y ^e sorrow of a motherly heart, by delivering & saving so great & mighty a people. Of 〈◊〉 , how far your corrupt and obstinate dealing is frō it, I speak in place. Put case thē, of y ^e worser sort for their naughty deserts, some few have been restrained of liberty, or licētiousues rather, some committed to bishops & other church men, or to good, wise, & godly Gentlemens custody, some also imprisoned, as y ^e case requireth, they fare well commonly, & lie soft, only the loose liberty of a few in respect, hath been upon great consideratiō I am assured, restrained: to foresee & prevent evil & dangerous attempts (as good wisdom and a great blessing of God.) We have tasted but too much of the bitter fruit that your late reconciltatiō to the Pope bringeth forth. Remember I pray you (as oft as ye hot Catholics plain of hard dealing in these days) the cruel usage of God his faithful servants in times past and of late years, and yet still in many places among you: and ye shall see less cause to make such tragical a do upon a little and gentle seueritte towards a certain here, rather hailed upon them selves, then offered, as all the world may see. If further, some few traitors have felt any sharpness and smart of death, their traitorous and seditious dealing by rebelling against our dread sovereign, and the state, hath procured it, & some notorious traitors had need to be made an example to terrify and stay others attempts, when they grow perilous to the good and settled state. This is the great extremity that you plain some endure, being justly and orderly proceeded withal by law, for their offenses, and that very mercifully too, as (say the worst ye can) ye must needs confess. There is a mild severity, as there is a cruel pity. One might reckon how many things her Majesty, hath borne and for 〈◊〉 , howe many matters she hath put up, and pardoned both them and the persons. This it might please you to consider of. You say: ye have no other means to redress and ease your miseries, but only as confident children, to come to the mercy & clemency of her highness your mother & borne sovereign Princes, &c. Faire words & good. I would ye had in deed no other means, & would seek & use no other: But why run ye so fast to Rome then: Why seek ye help at stepfathers and stepmothers: why procure and bring you in strangers and Italian soldiers: why be ye not ruled by your natural Mothers, & borne sovereign Princes wisdom, bearing and abiding her gentle correction with a rod for your demerits and insolencies: Is not this, to take the rod out of her hand: nay, the 〈◊〉 and authority quite from her, to ease yourselves if ye can: To be plain, if the Popes unholiness be your father. If you be his children? Seek your mother where ye can find her, her Majesty is none of your Mother, ye are not her natural subjects and children. If ye be her Majesty's children & subjects, renounce with her that vnholly father, y ^t most diuelishly seeketh her Majesty's overthrow, & y ^e destructiō of this noble realm and all the faithful subjects therein. Commit yourselves unto God & her Majesty's holy government: Sticke not to swear obedience to your mother, against Pope, Turk, and all foreign power whatsoever. If you stick at this, & will needs cleave to this Antichrist your father, following the Pope and his beck, her Majesty is so far off from being your mother, or accounting you her natural subjects and children, that She and the State here denounce you, with him, her, & their worst enemies, ye wot what they he in plain English? and hath she not good cause if his doings & yours be considered: yours everybody of the meanest sort hear knoweth: & his, though first done in a corner, yet hath been published to all the world. I think you will call it worse then a bill of divorcement frō mother Church here? I mean your Popes excommunicatiō & great curse with such like stuff, may not her Majesty justly cōplain w ^t that heavenly Prophet & gods holy anointed, king David, and in resepect of your Popes bellowing Bulls, say: Many young Bulls have compassed me, mighty Bulls of Bashan have closed me about, They gape upon me with their mouths as a ramping and roaring Lion. &c. Your greatest hope is in this father, in his deuilishe bulls, and in your bloody stepmother the Popish Church and Sea of Rome, who are lively described by S. John in his Reuelatiō. God, we dout not shall disapoint you of your hope, as heretofore, and her Majesty by her lawful authority, shall I trust frō time to time be able to repress all unlawful, seditious, & rebellious attēpts. God, of his goodness indue her Royal mind and more more with goodly wisdom and courage accordingly, and long preserve her Majesty against her enemies, y ^e she may be an old mother in Israel. Practises of prelates & other popelings, have long enough been know̄, they are no changelings, such consciences they have. The subjects ye speak of, must either renounce God, ye say, or sustain intolerable molestations. A hard Dilemma, or straight that you are brought into: But you know M. Howlet the solution of y ^t argument, by finding out a mean between those two extremities.

Wherefore mende your judgment, and that you pretend, and call conscience, as right religion would, and all is holpen: rather you renounce God, and being obstinate will buy it with troubles, then by any godly means be removed from that Diuelishe persuasion. All her Matesties travel hath been and is with mildness and gentleness to bring her Subects to God by such means as he hath appointed in his word. To this ende labor the Preachers. To this end tend her Majesty's wholesome laws, whereof ye so plain, as seconde means and helps which have been a great while executed with great favor toward those of your side. And yet this is the thanks ye give, as they had been most extreemely laid upon you, which is false. It is possible her Majesty seeth her lenity abused, as in deed: hope to escape punishment, is a train and bait alluring to do amiss. And being too much provoked she is enforced to change her course, and in a manner her nature, and against violent and disorderly dealings, to oppose just violence and punishment by the sword, wherewith God hath armed her royal Majesty.

You talk of conscience, as though ye endured for it. You do her Majesty, and the honorable estate great wrong, it is false ye say. Tell us where and howe you ground your conscience, that try all may be taken whether it be conscience in deed, or but a pretence and words. All have not conscience that say so, your conscience is not well and rightly grounded, if you have any herein. There is ye know a good conscience and a bad. Ignorance, the mother of your superstitious devotion, 〈◊〉 , and obstinacy, are the greatest enemies that conscience hath, and quite overthrow y ^e same. A good conscience, is that keepeth us in God & with him, which must be always directed by God his holy word. The Apostle joineth: Faith and a good conscience together, which he saith, Some have put away, and as concerning faith have made ship wrack. Words make not a good conscience, there be more circumstances required in it then so: Is not this conscience, you speak of, it, that set them a work in the North against her Majesty, when it was. Is it not it, that doth the like in Ireland, hailed in by those of the Popes Seminaries, Jesuits, and such like. Summa Summarum? Is not this the Popes conscience expressed in his bull that he sent hither to discharge English subjects of their bounden duty towards our liege Lady & most dread sovereign, Noble Queen Elizabeth, our most lawful, natural, and godly Prince, whom God, God (I say) long preserve, from such helllike consciences. Verily this is the conscience, you must all be ruled by, when it pleaseth your unholy father. Naughtie fruits of a noghtie conscience. Your conscience M. Howlet, and your fellows too, was better 〈◊〉 you liuid here as duetiful subjects to her Majesty, before your reconciliation to the Pope. You have made an evil change for the worse, if you can consider it well.

After this preamble. M. Howlet, you begin to disclose and lay down at large to her Majesty, your griefs and grievous afflictions in particular; whereof the first is, that the Catholic religion, as ye term it, that is which we here call the Popish religion, hath great wrong, in that it and the professors thereof are no more favored. What favor would you have: ye claim that of duty that ye never deserved, it would go hard with you Catholics if you had that you deserve, but you are before hand, so as if there were a great deal more severity used then now is toward those of your side, yet were it hardly quit with you, as beneficial as you would seem to be to Gospellers among other afore time: But God forbid the Church of God should follow you in cruelty and sucking of blood. You love to revenge & to quite, as you speak else where. It is the divinity you have learned out of your Philosophers, and out of Aristotle's Rhetoric. Again, your other proceedings by your own confession here, procure rather disfauour, thē favor in being so beneficial to them that you accompt Heretics and sectaries, as you here report. What favor I pray you deserveth it at y ^t Queen of England's hands, if this be true to have filled her realm with 〈◊〉 , and sectaries: You plain next of the good and wholesome laws here made against popery, and of the execution thereof: great cause I trow, if that were true ye falsely and sclanderously say, & more too. Hereto you adioine for proof certain particular matters, auowing, the Loyaltie and obedience of you Catholics towards civil Princes, and sharply, yea leawdlie by sclander, charging other w ^t disobedience. This is the some of that you write, for the most part in eight of your next leaves. A worthy matter to be treated of, before her Majesty, when all is well waied. But I must somewhat examine, there is no remedy, what you say a part and in order. First you compare diverse religions together, and show that popery fareth hardly and the worst. Hardly sure: can there be found a worse religion and more contrary to the sincere Gospel of Christ here professed, or that so much troubleth the good and quiet estate of Christ's Church in this lande and Realm, and therefore needeth most looking too.

FIrst let me ask M. Howlet, where you were when you wrote thus to her Majesty, you say in the beginning of these words, in this your Majesty's Realm, and in the latter ende again, this Realm. Were you at Douay printing your book, or occupied in Londō, or else where in England about it, the book possible might be sent to Douay, or you be printing it there another time, shift it over I pray you. Here your words import you were in England when you wrote this preface, elsewhere in the same preface, they import you were beyond Sea. Alyar had need have a good memory, saving that you Catholics can work wonders, and by conjuring make one, and the same human body to be in many and diverse places at one time. A man might make a doubt of this question, but let y ^t pass. When you would particularly reckō up y ^e several known religions not all approved nor allowed (nay all disallowed & condemned, saving that only one which is Jesus Christ's) but being only in this Realm: ye bring them into four heads, as for the petty sects that you are so privy of, as birds of your own hatching, till they be fledge, and come abroad, that we may know them, we can say little: But your Popish religion M. Howlet, were less unhappy, and both we & the world should be less troubled with you now a days, (if to speak but of religious men besides secular priests, among regulars) it had but four distinct religions and orders of beggarly fryers, everyone stoutly standing against other in defense of his Patron and order of religion. These be to to many, and yet is the world troubled with a great many moe: for besides the great swarines of these Locusts, there be I wot not how many sects or religions crept in, so as the Popes them selves have been fain to restrain frō rashness in instituting mo or new religions, for bringing in confusion. And yet observe (gentle reader) that the Pope hath authority to institute new 〈◊〉 , and none without his authority may do the same: observe also that there be in Popery old religions, and new religions, &c. It were 〈◊〉 long to speak of Canonists, Schoolmen, Thomists, Scotistes, and such other and the several & different opinions they hold: but in the late days of Popery here, were there not, sir, as many religions and moe to, besides your own sects, Arians, Anabaptists, Libertines, &c. Though none in effect were persecuted but the poor Protestants as ye call them. These men's peculiar heresies in examinations were commonly never touched, peruse the records, of these, there was little or no accompt made in those days of ignorance and darkness, while men slept the enemy was busy in sowing his tares. As you 〈◊〉 give here names of sects, to bring these times into hatred, so all ambiguity & spitefulnes laid aside, first take to yourselves & your religion some fitter name, for true Catholics we btterly deny you to be. All are not Catholics, that take the name of Catholics: for so should the Arians, and other herettques in their time have been Catholics, & true Catholics, heretics & sectaries, as antiquity reporteth. Under the name of Protestants, ye comprehend all those y ^t forsaking the Pope, & Popish religion have betaken thenselves to Christ and his holy Gospel, grounding their religion vpō God's word & his heavenly truth, comprised in the Canonical scriptures, of the old & new Testament, written by the Prophets & Apostles, and thereupon are called in these tyntes Gospellers, a fitter naine than that you call them by Protestants: Of which religion and number we acknowledge our selves to be, and thank God for the same. Cathari, or Puritan heretics, I know none here, God be thanked, but I guess whom you mean. Your Author 〈◊〉 , the whotter sort of Protestants are called Puritans. Now supposing their religion that you call the Protestants, to be the truth of God, as it is indeed: and that you that will be called Catholics, like not but condemn cold Catholics as bad ones, and require zeal and feruentnesse, I pray you tell us even in your conscience if Protestants be to be allowed: whether sort of 〈◊〉 are to be liked, the whotter or the colder, yet such still, (that ye abuse not yourself) as with their zeal carry & join godly knowledge. It is good to be zealous in a good thing, always saith the holy Ghost. And you wot what is said to them of Laodicea in the Revelation. for that they were luke warm & neither cold nor hot, that they should be spewed out. We hope that if you hot Catholics will allow any Protestants, y ^e poor Puritās will find grace with you. We once make but one religiō of those y ^t you cal protestāts & Puritās (meaning yet such still, that ye abuse not yourself (I say) & others, as join godly knowledge with their zeal) except we may do y ^e like with you hot & cold Catholics, as ye cal them, & we are troubled with so many sorts of you false Catholics already, that we are loath to make any more, except ye needs will yourselves. Householders of love, as better agreeing with your religiō, thā with Christ's Gospel, we cast to your heap, as we do all other false religions which we condemn, & acknowledge no other than that I have 〈◊〉 described you. Sum, The true religiō, or the religion of Christ, here professed, is but one, your religion is not only one, but many distinct religions, saith even your Angelical Doctor. Talke no more therefore of four religions, in this Realm, when but one is avowed here: & there be moe then four or five either, diverse religions, and distinct in name, 〈◊〉 , &c. not in a Realine but in one City & Town with you: this is your glory. I trust you will not charge y ^t religiō I have shortly described, to be a sect, nor the professors thereof to be Sectaries. I am sure 〈◊〉 ye cannot, considering that neither it nor they, hold of men, nor of names by them devised, or by you put upon them. That hath been hitherto proper to you & them of your religion. If you impugn this Religion, Take what name you will, ye shall show yourselves to be neither true Christians, nor good subjects. Take heed unto it, it lieth upon you. And let not that move you, because in the day and clear light of the Gospel, when you M. Howlet are gone, Heresies appear and be espted, that for the most parte were sown in your time before, & in the night, that is in the time of Ignorance and darkness: It is the nature and property of the light to disclose and show things that otherwise lie hid, It is a blessing of God.

Again, you know where G O D hath a Church, the Devil will have a Chapel hard by. And tares in the night are sown in the same field, even among the good seed. Heresies also must be even among you, saith the Scripture, &c.

You say: Of these four sorts of men, the Catholics are the first, the auncientest, the more in number, & the most beneficial to all the rest, (whom you accompt Heretics & Sectaries) having begot̄ & bred up the other and delivered to them this Realm, conserved by Catholic religion these thousand years and more, &c. Here, have I to ask you who then be the fathers to all those supposed Sectaries, and men of diverse religions, that you say are at this day in this Realm: Who? but you Catholics y ^t have begotten them? Whose children be they, & of whose bringing up, that are accounted to be of so diverse & naughty religions: whose? but yours y ^t will be Catholics, who have begotten and bred them up. Howe come these ye accompt Sectaries, here, and by this Realm, howe you Catholics delivered it them, if all the sortes of men ye reckon up were such Sectaries, and naughty men in deed as ye accompt them to be, they might well be accounted your brood, but first, syr, we must desire you to take out of your heap, those that you cal Protestants and Puritans. They will call no man their father, I tell you upon earth, as they be taught by their only Master Christ: for there is but one father which is in heaven, for the rest, the more we look upon thē the better we know them by the face, and confess them to be the Ghostly children of you false Catholics, they be so like you: you be the first ye say, and the auncientest: But the great Dragon (syr) that old Serpent called the Devil and Satan, as the holy Ghost speaketh, is elder and before you, again. You be the more in number, The serpents seed is greatly multiplied, but the womans seed, I doubt not, shall match you well enough, not she, that is the woman herself, as your 〈◊〉 translation, to commonly corrupt, lewdly translateth the words, and so overthrows the true sense. Of the battle, victory, and this whole matter read the Revelation of S. John, namely: the 12. and 13. Chap. &c. In Catholics and Sectaries we see the Ghostly fathers and their children. Go no higher to Grandsire, and great Grandsire, stay your wisdom I advise you, for opening your Pedegrue to much. Only as you Catholics have begotten & bred up Sectaries, so I pray you at this time tell us of whom ye begat them? That is, let us learn who was their mother & nurse whose breasts they sucked, and under whom so untoward imps, were brought up: To save your honesties, and to make all alike father, mother, & children, Babylon or Rome, in one word, I think will serve all, if not, help me and teach me better, I speak as your Doctors teach me. Howe beneficial you Catholics are to Protestants or Gospellers, amongst others, your hot burning charity, where they stand to your courtesy, showeth: and the bloody days here in Christ's Martyrs, &c. did sufficiently express. The more beneficial you are to all the rest that are Sectaries, the worse ye deserve of this Church. You plain in another place of lawless proceeding, and cry out of Riot: here you say, you delivered the Realm, to them that 〈◊〉 it. They took it not then by violence nor against your willes, they did you no wrong.

Howe this Realm hath been conserved by Catholic religion 〈◊〉 thousand years and more, that should you have shown & made plain; your words carry an ambiguity. Popery once, and your religion, as it is professed and exercised at this day, is not (we tell you) so old. Again, Christians, as we profess our selves to be, holding of Christ, and builte upon the Prophets and Apostles, &c. Fetch the antiquity of their religion, not from a thousand years ago, as you pretend to do: but from a very long tune before your 1000. years, and so may iustlier then yours he called the old religion. This Realm hath from time to time been conserved by God's merciful and fatherly providence, and blessing, by wise and virtuous Princes, and their good and wholesome laws, not by your blind superstition rather then religion. God's Church and true Christians sometime moe, sometime fewer, not in this Realm, but throughout the whole world, have received and conserved Christ's religion here now professed, and by me more shortly described, these fifteen hundred years and more, that I may go somewhat above your thousand years, even since the Ascension of the Lord Jesus, though after a diverse manner, sometime and most commonly shrouded under the cross, sometime otherwise, according to the dispensation and wisdom of the immortal God. It is wisdom & safety for you not to go above a thousand years, but to descend: for since that time Antichrist and his corruptions have grown apace in the Church, shown themselves and prevailed much, God so punishing men's ingratitude: But if ye ascend from a thousand years, if ye list to the beginning of the world, and let God's book be judge (we shut out Aristotle, your Philosophers, and profane men, in this case) you will find 〈◊〉 vantage, not in Auncientnesse, though without truth that were no great matter, yet you will still be found to come after & behind, give us leave to say as he in old time said: christ is my antiquity. Thus if you 〈◊〉 of y ^e old & true religion, thus must ye think; thus must ye do. Thus for trial we wish you to do, joining gods book ever with antiquity. And so, Let that that is first be true: & let that that is afterward brought in, be false. As one speaketh. God's holy word is afore all, is above all, & 〈◊〉 than all, that ye allege or can do, for proof of your religion, carrying any good show with it, & this is y ^e touchstone y ^t we would have our religiō, your religiō, & all religions in the world tried by. It is a loud lie & a vile slander to report & cry in her Majesty's ears, y ^t such 〈◊〉 & favor is here shown on y ^e one side, as that other religions, thā Christ's, have been 〈◊〉 to put out their heads, to grow, to advance themselves in cómon speech, to mount to pulpits without controulmet, & such extremity on the other side, that the very suspicion of your religion, hath not escaped unpunished by terror of Laws & rigorous execution thereof. For one part: those of your side and godless men among us by raising slanders have done what they can from time to time as you do, to bring diverse godly men into discredit, & have but to much prevailed with some, though God hath always given 〈◊〉 to the truth & cleared innocence. What y ^t smart of some the whilst hath been you dissemble, everybody knoweth best where their shoe pincheth them. I write not An Apology now, nor take not upon me to enter into every man's particular cause, to maintain or defend y ^t same, much less to defame & accuse our Laws and the executiō thereof by her Majesty's Ministers (I owe more reverence to the state than so to do) I only show the vanity of your report: you can for your vantage find out & tell her Majesty in this epistle of, one whom Newgate possessed long time for his fantastical opinions, as you 〈◊〉 & speak: wherefor soever the matter were in deed: you utter your choler, nay your malice & spite, you cannot find out one of your own side so brainesicke, that even now writing an Apology, on your behalfs taketh upon him by express terms, to confute her Majesty's late proclamations &c. You cannot find one so brainesicke that even now being obstinately given to popery, 〈◊〉 one of his own fellows in his heat or rage rather. Again (syr) may you not remember, if it please you, of executiō done by fire vpō some in London & abroad not long since, for heresy, which were no Papists, nor of your Catholic religion, as you define & devide things? Was this little or no controlment? Little surely or none in your opinion, so long as it is not upon yourselves.

But what tragedies make you us of fleabitings upon any of your side, which yet deserve worst both of church and common wealth? Ye think to win by exclamatiō & outcry. Never was there any of your side yet, that in her Majesty's days, and happy reign ever suffered death, or was executed for this religiō, nor any other that I know for, but these few I have named, & yet this is y ^t string ye here so much harp on, this is your argument, that your religiō hath found less favor & tolleratiō thā any other newer sect or religiō whatsoever, yea that the tempest hath been so terrible, & your persecution so universal, as the like was never felt nor heard of in England before, &c,

ANd because to verify your infamous, lie, and sclander in this behalf, you adjoin hereafter particular examples of two learned Bishops that are principal dealers in the high Commission for Ecclesiastical causes under her Majesty: though they need not my clearing to her Majesty, and the state that put them in trust, yet to open your impudent vanity, and to satisfy such as be not to much affectionate to your side for the dealing both of the state and them, let us hear what your Author and friend in this Treatise, ye present to her Majesty, saith hereof. When a Catholic doth come before the Commissioners, there is nothing asked of him, but when he was at Church? and if he will promise to go to Church, commonly they accompt him a sufficient conformable man, that is to have yielded sufficiently unto them. Here is rigorous execution; Is there not I pray you? here is great extremity, & cause hatefully, and contemptuously to quote in your margin M. Couper, & M, Elmer. Ah M. Howlet, what should I say, God give you his grace, and make you an honest man. Again, sediciously and deuilishly, comparing the high Priests and Magistrates of Jury with this state, and likening their proceeding to a sweet charm. Thus he writeth in text and margent. What if the high Priests and Magistrates should have said unto them: well, we are content that you live with your conscience, so you keep it to yourselves, and trouble not the state, & so that you will (for obedience sake) some time come to our Synagogues showing yourselves, conformable men to our proceedings. Nay what if they should have said: some of you also, for outward show, (keeping always your consciences to yourselves) must flee this odious name of Christians, & seem to communicate now & thē with us, in our sacrifices & ceremonies: we are content also, that some of you shall be our officers & iustices of peace, coūsellers & the like, so that you will sometimes (for orders sake) punish some of those indiscret fellows of your religiō, which cannot be contented to keep their consciences to thenselves: so you will also give some pretty, sharp charge in your circuites, sessiōs, & assemblies (always keeping your consciences to yourselves (& if some of you also will sometimes, step up into the pulpet, and speak, three or four earnest words against this religion, it shall be very gratful unto us, especially if you will affirm it with an oath which we have devised for y ^e same purpose, & this doing we assure you that you shall live quietly to your own consciences, & we shall account you for good subjects. If I say, y ^e Magistrates of Jury at that time should have givē to the apostls & other Christians this sweet charm, do you think that they cold have abidē to hear it all out, whose hearts did rise & swell at two words only that they spoke, for the entreating of them to hold their peace.

Here is good & gentle stuff: But sweet charms, terrible tempests, & such persecution as never was felt nor heard tell of in England before. Her royal Majesty, her upright laws against popery, & other such false religions, her grave, wise, & godly Counselors, & y ^e ministers of her Majesty's Iaws, with other of the state here, neither fear nor regard your false accusations, nor your impudent slanders, they cannot reach to come nere thē, they pity rather your want of discrettō & modesty y ^t I say no more. You cannot accuse or charge her 〈◊〉 Iaws or y ^e ministers thereof, but you touch her honor too nere, who giveth her royal assent to all laws here made: her Majesty's Iawes, counsellors, & ministers w ^t better accord draw all in one line, & one way then you seem to allow or like of. That her majesty in y ^t sight of all y ^e world (as you confess) hath shown you so great mercy & clemency, that doeth but increase your debt & duty, and aggravate your fault y ^e more, who so unkindly & unnaturally recompense her highness great goodness, by withdrawing yourselves from y ^e alleagians & obedience which you owe to God & her Majesty, which she requireth also at your hands, & duty bindeth you to perform: you pay & cover all w ^t fair flattering words & dissimulation, nothing else cometh from you to her Majesty. It hath been of her Majesty's godly inclination and good nature, not of your deserts, y ^t 〈◊〉 hath so often̄ pardoned & so long forborne you. She hath not nor doth not overthrow, nor alter her good laws provided against popery and treason. If you be not too too obstinate & miserable, let former clemency move you to amende, else, take things as they fall out: her Majesty's laws & the penalties thereof stand not for 〈◊◊〉 . Abuse not yourself & other M. Howlet. To sean pollitique laws & y ^e execution thereof is not our profession, yours I mean, as I take it, & mine, Their godly wisdoms y ^t make & execute y ^t laws ye now plain of, are above our reach: you take too much vpō you, being a private man & not of counsel of making these laws so undutifully to check & cōtroule y ^e same, you might like a good obedient subject, take heed of incurring the penalty, & consider by y ^e execution thereof, y ^t the end was to repress popery, massing, &c. If you will not hear my counsel, you might hear your own fellow in his discourse, or yourself in y ^e latter ende of the discourse: which, for y ^e most part thereof is twice set down for failing: That the catholic Church hath always taught her childrē that (how hardly so ever their prince should deal with them) yet are they bound to bear it patiently, & to obey him for conscience sake, as substitute of God, & placed in that room for their punishment, if they rule not well, we 〈◊〉 not to the subject to judge of. You love to tell what y ^e catholic church 〈◊〉 , & thereby show y ^t y ^e Popish church is not y ^t true catholic church: you come not frō the Pope of Rome hither w ^t this lesson, you have another commission. There was little space of time between the ariual of the Italian & Romish soldiers in Ireland and the flight hither of such spiritual birds 〈◊〉 the Pope, as you are, your chalenges and books were 〈◊◊◊〉 , & this treatise, as fast as mightbe, afterward published: iwis you might, if it so pleasd you aforde as much reverence in truth to her 〈◊〉 , & the civil state under God in governing y ^e common wealth outwardly, as you do in the false Hier archie to your Popish 〈◊〉 &c. with commanding authority, & laying upon 〈◊〉 , obedience with necessity. Your malapert importunity hath drawn and 〈◊〉 me of duty & zeal, to speak thus far for clearing & defense of her majesties wholesome jaws, & the execution thereof by her ministers, rather then y ^t any need required the same, except it be in respect of y ^e simpler sort. And yet M. Howlet, let me be bold to tell you that even in this place where you so inueighe against the terreur of laws against your religion, ye justify greatly the moderation and equity of her Majesty's laws, and cannot deny but there hath been to great mildness used towards you in respect of the naughtiness of your religion, thus you say: the Law made by Protestants prohibiting the practice of other religions besides their own, allotteth out the same punishment to all thē that do any way vary from the public Communion book, or otherwise say service than is appointed there: as it doeth to the Catholics for hearing or saying of a Mass. What have you to plain of in y ^t fauourablenes of this law towards you; Is this straightness to Catholics; what more equity and bearing with? would you in these times have an Immunity, to be exempted from all laws and penalties? I blame you not, ye so fast and so many ways endanger yourselves by breach of laws, that ye need this remedy greatly: but ye deserve it ill; the penalty and the execution of the law is that ye plain of, and yet is no more done than law, if always so much. It grieveth you, that other fare not as hardly as you. The comparison is odious, the cause is not equal, your mind also is envious, your opinion and affection parciall. An enuyous man, they say, pyneth away at another man's welfare, Is your eye evil, because her Majesty is good? Murmure not, you have no wrong. They that are justly punished, when other of grace and favor are spared, cannot plain of Injustice, as though they had wrong. It is a privilege that God in his matters, and Princes, States, and other civil Magistrates, have in injuries done unto them, by justice to exact and execute penalties where they be due, and by mercy sometime, to pardō and release offenses done against their Persons, upon great consideration to some certain, without doing any injustice. Justice & mercy, may go & stand together, and both of them are severed from extremity and parcialitie. You might spare well enough many of your exoruations and 〈◊〉 figures; you need not make such exclamation as you do. You think that saying, and hearing of Mass is too hardly handled by our laws here. You weigh not the matter aright nor indifferently. First, what is the Mass? Next, what mean you to buy such Deuilishe tromperie so deer? Your Mass for both saying and hearing is justly abrogated here, as a thing, that in respect of the sacrifice thereof containeth blasphemy against God, is injurious to Christ's death and Passion, is an Idol, erected directly contrary to the institution of the Supper of the Lord, and a mere profanation thereof, farced and stuffed full of gross superstitions, to poison men's souls with, so far from edifying that it destroyeth: that I speak nothing of the Apishe toys therein containing great mysteries with you, fitter indeed for a stage then for the holy house of GOD. You hear briefly and in sum our opinion of your Mass. If you can say better for it out of God's book, let us hear that, and ye shall, God willing, hear of us again. In the mean while for brevity, because you do but touche it in passing, I surcease also, from doing that now which is so often and well done already, and rest thereupon, and to answer you, I deny your suppositiōs, till you bring us some proof, which you do not here. If ye cannot live without saying and hearing this abhominable Mass, plain no longer of the miseries that ye willingly run headlong into, the punishment is very moderate and gentle, nothing so hard as your desert is in this behalf. It is your honor, as seemeth, you travel to recover your Helena, a rare perle, a precious jewel, mych good dite you with it, draff is good enough for Swine. Refuse neither heat nor cold. Run I pray you thorough fire and water, to come to it, if ye needs will: but ye were better be admonished and advised: At least all the godly wise will, if it be but for so heinously dishonoring God, and deadly wounding their own souls.

Thus writeth your Author in his book, the hearing of Mass is not only worth the ventering of a hundred Markes or six months imprisonment, but also of an hundred thousand lives, if a man could loose everyone for that cause six times: and an hundred times miserable is that man which for any wordly respect doeth deprive himself of so great a benefit, as the participation of this sacrifice is.

The like to this I say of the practice of the other particulars, that ye mention, and the penalties laid thereon, yet is it not hard to spy out your cloaking and colouring of things in speech. It is unnatural, unreasonable, unconscionable, vnduetifull: It is against the law of GOD and man, and namely of this our Country, that an English man should refuse the oath of allegiance and obedience to our most natural and dread Sovereign, and under pretence of Religion give it to that proud Prelate of Rome. If you have anything to say to the contrary bring it forth, our answer you hear, our grounds and proofs are so pregnant, as if ye considered them well, they might shame or win you: but your religion possible hindereth you from reading the books on that side, as your Authors opinion is, least indeed that good should come thereof, and therefore it availeth little to write for you. What mischiefs have been wrought by your devised eareshrifte? What is now sought thereby in your reconciliation? what the foundation and use thereof hath afore time been? What a 〈◊〉 and slaughter house to men's consciences? Is to well known at this day, to think it may be set out with colors to commend it, the world waxeth too wise, to be abused with such gross absurdities, ye talk of a reconciling to God. I 〈◊〉 , to say in truth, to whom?

Yet in your reconcilement by your Ghostly father, your confiteor must go before his Misereatur. In reconcilemēt of yourselves to her Majesty and the State, take (at leastwyse if ye will follow no better) the worldly wise man's counsel, if your stomachs be come down, confess and submit yourselves to mercy.

Ye talk much of death, as though ye suffered pain of death here for your religion, ye repyne, are grieved, and offended that other have not been put to death, for practice of their religion, and yet do I not know any of your side that hath suffered the same, as I said for his Religion, in all her Majesty's most happy reign, unless there have been found besides seditious and traiterous dealing in the party against her Majesty's Royal dignity and person, and the State of this 〈◊〉 , which by wholesome laws it behooveth her Majesty to conserve as like a good mother of her Countries, she hath hithertoo done and still doth.

Ye say among other things it is death here for giving the supreme Pastor, supreme authority in causes of the Church, Speak plainly, we say it is for giving away to the Pope, GOD his, and Christ his right and title, and for denying under them her Majesty's souerainety in her dominions. We say ye say untruly, as the words lie, It is so far of from being death to give to the supreme Pastor, supreme authority in causes of the Church, that without check of our Sovereign, yea with her Majesty's good liking we doubt not, we here maintain and defend the same by the scriptures and overthrow your proud Prelates usurpation thereby. Ye should therefore have done that here, dealing with her 〈◊〉 at least, which you and your Author going by supposition lightly never do, to wit: have shown who this supreme Pastor is, and have proved the Pope to be he. In the mean while as we grant the supreme & chief Pastor in Christ his Church, supreme and chief authority in causes of the same; so instead of your Romame Pope; we ascribe that title and office to Jesus Christ alone, by the warrant of GOD his hospirite and word, which call him Archpastor, or chief and Supreme Pastor, and find not that title imparted in the new Testament, to any in Church Ministry, much less to the Pope of Rome. If you now find as good warrant for your Pope in God his book, lay it us down, and we will yield: But that neither have you hitherto done, neither yet shall ye be able to do, wrangle as long, and as much as ye will, your best days are past.

For the rest we report us to any indifferent body whether it be more to God his glory, and beseeming God his people, the Church, to hold with the Scriptures that Jesus Christ alone, the son of God is the Arche and chief Shepherd, or without warrant of Scripture to give the same to the Pope.

Now Syr, and when the Laws of this Realm give to the Princes here their Soueraigntie, and require the subjects to acknowledge the same in this Church and Realm, and the Kings and Queens from time to time, challenge and accept the same, neither do the one profess to give, nor the other to take, God's place or Christ's from them, nor yet so much as to incroch vpō the Church ministry, in taking authority to Preache, administer Sacraments, and execute other Church Ministries & functions, yea by means of your malicious interpretation, the contrary is protested, but according to duty from God, to maintain and see those things done by Pastors, and such as to whom those charges likewise from God do appertain, not admitting therewhilest, which is your grief the immunities that the Popes aforetime have given Clergy men, in exempting them from the civil authority and jurisdiction. What have faithful subjects herein to repine at? What have they to plain of? Yeelde with us unto it and ye shall find we have all great cause to praise God for her Majesty, and for civil authority, we deny then that any foreign Prince and Potentate, Ecclesiastical or Ciuil (if ye will) is above her Majesty and her people, in these her dominions, in any manner of causes, or have to deal here, but under her, & by her leave & liking. And to God his glory & our comforts, have we still w ^t all thankfulnes to observe that her Majesty doeth not sit in men's consciences, nor profess to make laws to bind the same, as your supreme pastour doth: but leaveth conscience to God, Christ, his spirit and word, to be ruled and framed thereby, without further pressing the same, then the express word of God doth, in so much that for her Majesty's own respect, in matters 〈◊〉 unto her soul and conscience, she yieldeth her self obediently, to hear, receive, and obey, as every other Christian, the voice of God and Christ speaking unto her in y ^e holy scriptures, by true pastors, and other ministers mere Church governors, leaving to them there several charges whole, without diminishing any part thereof, as reason is.

Now sir, if the Pope and Popelings, namely her Majesty's natural borne subjects, especially by their unnatural styrres, to the danger of her Royal person, and the state of the Church and Realm, have caused any laws to be made that be prejudicial to their attempts, let them thank themselves and leave their busy and perilous practices, & neither pretend conscience where no good conscience cā be, nor think y ^t the Prince hath to give over her Royal perogatives, or to altar the state for their pleasure, this is the very state of this matter. If this cannot call you home nor content you, we say further, that the supreme pastour ye have made choice of (for it is not hard to guess at your meaning, though your words be doubtful) is a wolf, or worse then a wolf. To give your Pope supreme authority in this Church, besides that it is treason against her Majesty and the state, it is to commit the poor lambes to no better then the ravening wolves keeping. Howe many good lambes, he and his whelps devoured here in a very few years, when he had last to do with this sheepfold, the memory and smart is yet fresh, and before 〈◊〉 eyes. The more have we to praise God for our dread sovereign, y ^e in tender care of God his sheep and lambs, and her majesties, she hath eased our necks and shoulders of that yoke and hell like bondage. Besides this M. Howlet, where you give to the Pope as supreme Pastor, supreme authority in causes of the Church; ye had need to explayne this some what plainer for your own religions sake and those of your side: as whether the Pope be above the Counsel, or the Counsel above the Pope; Also, what ye call Church causes; and whether ye deny his supremacy above Emperors, Kings, and so forth in other then Church causes, or ye subject him to them? Whether as Peter his Successor ye give him all Peter his Patrimony and priueleges &c. and so because, as one Pope saith and your Cannon law approveth, Christ committed to blessed Peter (nowhere) in deed, the right both of worldly and heavenly Empire, will ye abridge that or no?

What should I speak of your Relics, ye may say of all as ye do of one (a seely pair of beads) seely and single stuff surely. Why make ye such accompt of this seely ware, that is but tromperie and trashe, cast such baggage from you, and there is an ende of all troubles for that.

Ye talk of the Catholic religion, and of your own religion, saying: my religion. Lieth the Catholic religion and yours in these pointes, in deed M. Howlet, ye here name; will ye needs lie in perpetual prison, leese goods, lands, and life for the same; After by eareshrift to your Ghostly father, ye be discharged of lawful and dutiful obedience to our Sovereign as vice gerent in God his place, to whom ye owe obedience for conscience sake, as to God him self, whose room she possesseth, as the substitute and Angel of God (thus speak ye some times) to yield the same to a Priest and proud prelate, to a forrainer, and forerunner, to Antichrist, if not himself, rather to the Pope of Rome that hath nothing to do with English subjects (after this inverted and perverted oath and bow: You call it your reconciliation ) Lieth your religion, I say, in a masking Mass, in a crucifix, Medall, agnus Det, and such other images; ye call them lay men's books, in a seely pair of beads (so you speak yourself) and such other relics? then would I surely have all men consider well the daily exercises of our Religion which is Catechising and instructing of youth and the ruder sort in y ^e Articles of the belief, the ten commandments, the Lord his prayer, and other the principles of Christian religion: preaching and hearing preached God his holy word, ministering and receiving the Sacraments of Baptism, and y ^e Lord his supper, according to Christ his holy institution in the Gospel; prayers to God for necessities, and thanksgiving for benefits, with confession of sins, and of our faith also: and singing of Psalms, &c. These are the usual and ordinary exercises, and the principal of our religion in our daily meetings, kept among English men in the English tongue. Now let these be compared with your exercises that you set us here down, and with the other ceremonies of your Catholic Roman Church, and their Latin service at this day, and then let judgment hardly be given whether of the two be more to God his glory, the Churches, that is, God his people's edification to heauenwarde, and as God his religion best grounded on his holy word, as conformable thereto, and so consequently to be received and embraced with all thankfulness to God and our sovereign. I am persuaded (M. Howlet ) that as in your motives for alteration, in so bad and corrupt a religion as yours is, you move very little her Majesty's resolute and settled conscience on better grounds then yours, for all your cunning and sugared speeches: so this well weighed and rightly, your friends reasons, and your glossing will gain as little to your side.

I cannot follow particularly all your impudent 〈◊〉 & slāders without using to much unseemly terms, in giving you that you deserve, I will but touche so much as I shall think requisite, the things that seem needful unto me, for the readers satisfaction and admonition. I cannot let pass that ye say here, we were borne, baptized, & bred up &c. in the Catholic Religion: still ambiguity of speech: but I guess at your meaning, you mean yourself and your fellows I suppose: for we renounce and utterly deny, with thanks to God, that we or any of us were baptized in Popish, or in any man his religion. We were baptized, In the name of the Father, of the Son and of the holy Ghost, in the name of Christ and into Christian religion: and therefore is Baptism called Christening and Christendom, not Popening and Popedom. I will not calculate your age M. Howlet, and yet it may be, you were borne and bred up in the time of the Gospel, and profession of this religion, many of your side I am sure were, & yet shall not need to be rebaptised, as though ye had been baptized, in heretical religion, by your opinion. You were baptized, we hope, In the name of the Father, & of the Son, and of the holy Ghoste: for every Popish Priests form in baptising, we have not to answer, look you unto it.

We find in your own decrees, among other your corruptions of God's holy orders & his Institution recorded even in the ministering of this sacrament of Baptism in the Latin tongue: that a Priest in Pope Zacharias' time, baptized a child, in too too barbarous, unto ward, and vile, a form, as is set down in the margin: Therefore not without cause, bid I you look to your Priests and their doings afore time. One may judge there be many holy things evil favoredly 〈◊〉 up among you. I have told you, the order of Baptizing in our Churches: for the circumstance of time, when; it is no great matter in this case, look to the substance. Antichrist with all his corruptions and mischief could never overthrow the form & substance of Baptism hithertoo, not in the time of Popery. Let your Antichrist take his corruptions, y ^t is his religiō. Let us thanke God for the substance of our Baptism, that we need not be Baptized again, reserved by God for us, and unto us, in spite of Antichrist and the devil in all ages. To God greatly, yea wholly: To these we are nothing beholding for the same, and as little or less for the corruptions they mingled therewith. What ye mean when ye say: we were borne in the Catholic religion, is somewhat dark, in a thing is diversely taken: consulte with your M. Aristot. we were borne, and you too in iniquity, dead in trespasses and sins, and are by nature the children of wrath as well as others. Thus speak the Scriptures. If you mean as I think ye do, that we were borne, yourself and all, and Baptized in the time of Poperye, we grant it. But in or into Popish religion, we deny it. It is one thing to be Baptized in a Popish time, and another in Popish religion: keep the words wherewith we were baptized. In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost. This is neither Popery nor Popish religion. Here upon, we say your argument and your fellows is taken from Sophistry, and is a Sophisticall and brabbling quarrel. You may easily find the fallacion. Thus falleth the Bulwark alone, and of it self, or is taken very easily, that ye imagine impregnaable, till it be tried or assaulted, we see and hear well enough what accompt ye make of this argument abroad, to deceive the simple. Distinguishe, which is not hard to be done. Between God and the Devil, Christ and Antichrist, Popery and True Religion, God's holy word, and men's Inuentions. Let eche one have that is proper to him, and it: And this argument (of being Baptized in the Catholic Roman religion, as these men speak, that is Popish religion, as we truly speak) will easily be answered.

Her Majesty's clemency, that ye talk of, and great mercy, as it hangeth not on your commendation, as needing the same; so both it, and the cares wherewith you disquiet her peaceable and quiet estate, and perce her tender heart (so much as in you lieth) should make your hearts to bleed in your bellies, rather then hers, if they were not harder then flint: never praise your love to her Majesty, you are little beholding to your neighbors, that need to praise yourselves: for nobody else can. Say not, to excuse your perverse willfulness, that ye are not able to remove the cause, because it is your conscience & judgment in religiō. You have framed yourselves a conscience; ye may as well remove it. Ye have freewill 〈◊〉 , ye say, on both sides. Ye could freely enough fall, arise as freely I pray you by reforming your conscience and judgment. Lie not still in your own mire, and say ye be perplexed, because some of your doctors talk, and teache perplixetie that men are sometime brought into, which is but a foolish opinion. We will pray to God, ye may remove it or come out of that devilish conscience, ye seem now to pretend: but this therewhilest we warn you of, that ye take not the way, by abstaining from holy Church assemblies, where the proper means to win you to God, is to be had.

NOwe (leaving the brag you make of your resolute readiness to spend your lives in her Majesty's service (which as hitherto she hath not, so God grant she never need to prove your fidilitie) and of your patience in your troubles: dreamed of, rather then found) proceed I, M. Howlet, to your new persecutions and extremities, as ye call them, in deed to your shameless slanders, charging particular persons before her highness, whose chaste ears, unwonted to such impudency, you should at least have spared, but ye make no accompt of that; The other dealing beseemeth you well enough, whereupon making your entrance upon generalles still, as true as the 〈◊〉 , you talk of casting into Geales, both of men, women, and children of your religion throughout all partes of her Majesty's Realms. Fye for shame, are ye not ashamed; tell truth, and express the cause wherefor, or else peace, Lying lips are abomination unto the Lord: but they that deal truly are his delight. Prov. 12. 22. He that dissembleth hatred with lying lips, and he that inuenteth slander, is a fool, &c. Prover. 10. 18. It is possible to bring some examples of imprisoning, whipping, and burning too, of some children and infants of our men's in your kingdom, besides women and men, young and old. Let Bonner that dead is go, and other his mates. Here I remember what befell a woman in the Isle of Guernezey and her infant, in the late days of persecution under Queen Marie, howe both were cruelly burned, the story is to be seen, the people of the Country testify of y ^t cruelty and the truth of the matter, the dean and other that gave the sentence, alive very lately and I think still, and diverse of the executioners in her Majesty's dominions, and out of prison too. The profession of y ^e Gospel followeth not your Romaine Catholics in thirsting after blood, her Majesty's royal breast and her people and Realm; except it be a few that; grow out of kind, are free from such barbarous and savage cruelty. Her Majesty's will is it should be so, God be thanked therefore.

Leauing generals which ye plain of, but prove nothing, ye come with like proof, that is none at all, to particulars, reported here, say you: but by whom & upon what credit you say not, of you and upon your own credit wholly. At first clap you charge two, not of the meanest bishops in this lande: what dare not you do to meaner personages? but the best is you show what you are and what credit is to be given to you. Your reports are lies and too shameless, yeedeclare at pleasure in your Epistle of disioyning of man and wife in sundry prisons, &c. What were your, not disioynings in sundry prisons; but violent diuorcements of man and wife, pronouncing the same without all warrant of God his word to be whoredom and worse then whoredom, when it was. Your hot burning, if not both the married couple, yet one leaving the husband a widdower, the wife a widdowe, the children fatherless and motherles, your killing diverse in prison, &c. This was nothing, it was worth neither the noting nor the quoting: ye quote us. M. Dimmocke, in your margent and M. Couper. But syr, the Bishop of Lincoln whom ye name, is alive, and able to answer your slander, God be thanked, and hath already openly done the same to your shame. M. Dymmock, as I understand being orderly called before her Matesties high Commissioners in causes Ecclesiastical, whereof the B. of Lincoln is one, was for his demerits restrained, not committed to any prison or common iayle: but wild to choose him a house, as he did a friend of his, in the Close at Lyncolne, where he was (during his restraint) well enough used, his wife resorted to him, and he sundry times to the Bishops table; being there, he might per adventure sometime be displeased at the Bishop his talk after dinner, who carefully and painfully travailed to win him to Christ. This was the hard usage ye make so Tragicall ado about. I am ashamed to rip up your words of compelling such to die in prison which could not stand or go in their own houses. If not all, the one half of the sentence is a Paradox, or strange kind of speech. From Lincoln, you leap or fly rather to London, and talk of sending of virgins to Bridewel for their consciences, ye quote us only one, as (say you) young Mistress Tomson by M. Elmer. Ye heard by report, belike, of something, whereof you make more, as is your manner. The thing, as is reported is false and untrue as the rest: for neither was she sent to that place by the B. of London, but by the Queens Majesty's high Commissioners and the appointment of the whole benche, neither was it for her conscience, but for her flering, mocking and such vnmaydenly usage towards authority, that she was committed to Bridewel, and that to the ende she might thereby the rather, get by her hands and labor somewhat towards her maintenance. How ever it were, we have to think reverently of the proceedings of authority, and to judge she well deserved the punishment laid upon her, & that the Commissioners had reason & good cause to take that course with her they did. The committing of her to Bridewel, why should it be thought so great an offense as H, makes it, seeing the place is ordained not to make of honest women Harlots, but of Harlots honest women, by punishment and repentance: Therefore the Commissioners seeing the intolerable vnshamefastnesse, the boulde 〈◊〉 countenance of the woman without blushing, the immodest speeches and flowting laughters in the place of Majesty and Justice: suspected that chastity could not be there entier, where so ill, so bold, and impudent behavior was, in so open, and so honorable a place. Therefore they thought it good to commit her to that place, where though not her chastity, yet her modesty, and maydenly behavior might be recovered. The time was, when Howlets brood thought it no fault to rack Anne Askue (a gentlewoman of a good house) nor to burn the hands of maids before they burned their bodies, nor to use other most hellishe torments against the servants of God: but now (forsooth) the Papists being sufferers (as they think) and not doers (as they wish) can make of every molehill a mountain, and of every fillip a mortal and deadly wound. Are they not ashamed to cry out against carrying to Bridewell, where the offenders be kept alive, lie, and live well, and be made better (if they have any grace) and not worse: where they carried the saints of God to Smithfielde, to fire, and (as they themselves were not ashamed to say) from that fire to hell fire: Such was their mercy. If God 〈◊〉 accompt 〈◊〉 to be the most abhominable 〈◊〉 of the soul, & much fouler then the defiling of the body: then what wrong had that idolatrous wench, who had prostituted her self, and her soul to the worse sort of filthy fornication, if she were carried to the house of reformation, where she could take no evil example, neither of life, nor belief: If such as be sent to Bridewell returned thereby defiled either in body or soul, or both, as those commonly be, whom Satan sendeth on his errand to Rome: then were it a fault indeed to thrust them to such a Prison. I take this an honester imprisonment, then your Canonical intrusion into Monasteries was, where what they saw, what they heard and learned, the world is not ignorant.

I have to crave pardon that upon this railers slanders I make so bold as to speak in their defences, whose credit with her Majesty and the State is so good, that it nothing needeth my pleading or others such as I am, and that maketh me not to stand long in their purgation: but only to note the adversaries crafty and naughty dealing. If he were here to answer it, the parties be such and their cause, as by trial before other Judges, or in any Court in England, it would 〈◊〉 him deer if they should but pursue the cause. You speak M. Howlet of racking, tormenting, &c. for Religion (all must be cloaked under Religion forsooth) you might be ashamed, if ye had any, writing to her Majesty, to touche her honor so near, and the highest authority in this lande, to whom these punishments are reserved, you will never leave your common rule: An Epistle blusheth not, Pro. 24. 21. My son (saith the wise man) fear the Lord and the King, and medle not with thē that are seditious. I will not as you do, make myself more busy than needeth about her 〈◊〉 affairs, and her honorable Counsels, whereof I am not privy, no more are you: though impudently ye rushe into everything, that I may 〈◊〉 charge you with your own phrase, they be things M. Howlet above our reaches, they are to well handled to be stained by our reproaches, let us deal wysely and let them alone, or else learn to speak more reverently of authority as becometh us. Ye know who and what presumptuous 〈◊〉 and false teachers they be that standing in their own conceipte, despise government and fear not to rail on them that are in dignity.

From public and great personages and such as have commission and authority from her Majesty, whose names ye might have spared for your own honesties sake, you come lower, ye care not where ye root, nor where ye byte. First ye catch hold of one whom ye cal a strange brainesicke fellow, whom Newegate possessed a long time for his fantastical opinions (only Papists then have not suffered for their Religion) wherein he is so pregnant if men report truly (all goes upon report) as he can devise any new religion upon a weeks 〈◊〉 given him at any time. Gentle stuff, This 〈◊〉 affirmeth in printe, say you, that all Papists are Enemies to GOD and to your Royal Majesty, and this is above all other things most grievous, injurious, and intolerable that the crime of Disloyaltie, is objected unto you, &c. Heereuppon you puff and fume, or would seem to be angry: ye amplify the matter, ye apeale, ye protest, ye bestir you every way, here is praeda Mysorum, expounded and set out with dog Rhetoric, and much ado: The thing might have been 〈◊〉 taken and uttered with more 〈◊〉 and modesty; and your deeds, if ye had any, might better clear you with wise men than words will. Your judgment of the man in this passion and in your own case will hardly be esteemed. This upbraiding of imprisonment, this charging with fantastical opinions and showing none, and saying that the man with whom ye are 〈◊〉 can devise any new Religion at any time upon 〈◊〉 weeks warning given him; grounded but upon this: if men report truly. This uncharitable and naughty dealing I say, may savor of immoderate choler and heat: but of little truth or honest modesty, you would scarcely be content to be so used yourself.

Though it be no parte of the matter, to stand in defense of particular men and their 〈◊〉 , neither take I great delight in that course, yet if that be the party ye quote in your margin (M. Howlet) I answer not by report and hear say, as you too lightly do; but upon better knowledge: that it is very untrue & a slander that you report of his devising of any new Religion upon a weeks warning, &c. And that he hath been known never to have altered his judgment in Religion, since he first entered the profession thereof, and at this day also, thanks be to God, keepeth the true pattern of the wholesome doctrine of salvation, and constantly travaileth for the mainteynance of the Faith against you and such other as fallen into Heresy impugn the same. It maketh no great matter what you report of him or such other; when almost ye can say well of no good man, the worse he heareth of you in this case, the better will he be liked among the godly.

Touching the matter I would your deeds M. Howlet, and your fellows did not plainly confirm and approve that he writeth, if you be so stiffly addicted unto Popish heresy, as ye seem to profess, and so obstinate in refusing by oath to acknowledge her Majesty's Soueraigntie given of GOD, and by law propounded to her subjects here: Think not that it is this man his singular opinion in writing and printing, but the common opinion here of the best, that in the case you are ye be enemies to God & her Royal Majesty and the State, & that worse terms also may beseem you & your deserts well enough. Be not angry therefore at this, your to much stirring, will but increase the opinion of you. Have you been all this while in laying down your griefs, in disclosing your miseries, and unfolding (at large now) your pitiful afflicted case, and such intolerable molestations as you cannot bear, brought into such extremity as never was heard of in England before. And is all come to this? that the giving out publicly in print of these words; that all Papists are enemies to GOD and her Royal Majesty is above all things the most grievous, injurious and intolerable? Is this the deepest wound, and the greatest hurt ye have; Is this such extremity as was never heard of in England before; Alas seely mouse that appeareth after the mountains great travail, I would, when your side commanded, we had been persecuted but by tongue and pen. Is that bloody persecutiō forgotten now; these 〈◊〉 man, but words, and in your own estimation but the words and opinion of a strange brainsicke fellow, holding phantastical opinions, and vile in the reputation of the world, what need you be so much moved thereat; Ye are of a noble courage, file not your hands upon everyone ye meet. I see (M. Howlet) your choice and meaning herein, cunningly to seek to tread upon the hedge where it is lowest, you are commonly in extremities, either with the greatest, or the least: you can hardly keep the golden measure and mean in anything.

This renteth your Catholic hearts forsooth, which are priuey of your own truth and dutiful affection towards her highness, estate and person, would to God that that is so priuey to yourselves & unknown to others, her Majesty at least, to whom it appertaineth, might be made priuey to in deed; by your submissions, to her authority renouncing all foreigne power. I would ye would have made her Majesty priuey, before ye ran away & made yourselves slaves to that Beast of Rome, I would before you had thus dealt with her Subiectes and Printed your book without her leave and against her mind, you would have made her Majesty priuey of y ^e matter, I would you would yet now at the length return home vpō her Majesty's commandment and intimation given unto you of her pleasure, and do as some of your fellows & company do, repent and stand to her Majesty's mercy. Ye need not be ashamed nor afraid, you shall have examples here before your eyes, of honester men, I fear than some of you will prove, except you do the like: This is good sooth and truth, and the dutiful and bounden affection of subjects, this is good plain English dealing man without Romish farded 〈◊〉 , or deep Italian fetches: if ye be so desirous to clear yourselves, as ye pretend, yield to this motion in time, Otherwise your Rhetoric is but cold, it persuadeth not, all that you say or can say for yourselves, hath been & is considered; it is hardly worth the hearing. He that praiseth him self is not allowed, but he whom the Lord praiseth. How if her Majesty reply & rely (as you speak) upon her just interest: how if she say ye plain more than ye need, or have cause for, if this man's words be the worst is done unto you, that you make much ado of a little or nothing in comparison? howe if her Majesty tell you where the truth of the matter is to be tried, in deeds and good evidence, words are in vain and prevail not, howe if therefore she 〈◊〉 you leave flourishing, that is a vain praising and vaunting your Loyaltie in glorious words, set out with colors of petre Rhetoric, & 〈◊〉 you, for her satisfaction and assurance, go to the matter, and by taking the oath of submission testify and approve your obedience, and shame your adversaries that way. Let another man praise thee, saith the wise man, and not thine own mouth, a stranger and not thine own lips. Namely, we are bidden there, Not to boast our selves before the King. You keep no measure 〈◊〉 M. Howlet. And in refusing conformity to take the oath of obedience, and to go to Church, upon the reasons of the treatise following. Ye maintain a very corrupt conscience, if it may bear the name of conscience, which is so ill stayed: If words may be received, your pay verily is good; if deeds be required your money is not currant.

That is a great block in your way, that you can never praise your duetifulnesse to her Majesty, but you must ever with all, crave pardon for your vndutifulnesse in the greatest matters: as you here do for not leaving Pope and Popery, and conforming yourselves to religion &c. And yet ye do the same cunningly, and under couerte of conscience forsooth grounded on the reasons that are in the treatise, which must stand in stead of all satisfaction to her Majesty: where-of in place, God willing we shall see. I am sorry I am enforced to follow and examine your words: I would there had been some grounded matter, for I am afraid as I weary myself, so do I some wise and discreet readers, but I must crave pardon in respect of other that are more simple and rude, who it were pit should be by glossing, seduced or deceived.

BEcause you Catholics are touched, and that justly with the crime of disobedience and rebellion towards our sovereign, and that the whole fault hereof proceedeth from you that teache and lead the rest hereunto, ye take some pains and seek here to clear Popery of that note, but ill fauoredly and to little purpose; for when you have all said, the matter is where it was, you neither clear yourselves, nor satisfy other, you give us still fair words, and make odious cōparisons besides the matter: taking occasion in the most of this part, to slander & charge mē at home, here and abroad, alive and dead, one and other, and still to vaunt and praise yourselves, and so make all things to serve your turn. Herein spend you now six or seven pages in this your Epistle to her Majesty: Whereof I must particularly speak something. In the very entrye, ye say ye medle with no man's particular fact, but speak of the Catholik religion in general. So ye leave us a general, that can be undermined and overthrown by no particulars. Take away particulars, and whereof will your general consist. Thus provide you a salve for all the trecheries & attempts, taught and committed by any person of your side in any time: So you salve up the Popes bulls, if you accompt him a man among other, and his doing a particular fact. So, to make an ende, ye salve up all other libelles and writings made by any of those, of your side, what treason so ever they contain. So yevantage yourself greatly (as ye ween) and no less seek you to disadvantage us: for what bring you against us, and our religion in this case, but particular men's writings, and particular, not facts, but words of men. Thus can you to charge in general our religion, both in doctrine and demeanour, conclude without all reason. A general affirmative against us, by one or two particular examples: but no particulars (as. I have said) how contrary so ever they be in doctrine and behavior, to your Catholic religion in general, may overthrow that you generally deny, to fall into that religion. Me thinketh you should give us the same liberty ye take to yourselves, you medle, you say, with no man's, particular fact, and yet you will drive us to answer for particulars.

1 Your position hath two partes: one to clear yourselves, and your religion, to wit, you say, that the Catholic religion in general is unjustly touched by any sect of our time for teaching disobedience or rebellion against their Princes, or as your note hath: The Catholic faith, teacheth obedience more then other religions. This is for you. I well wote not what you mean by your Catholic religion in general, nor howe you may understand your note, to be some way true, that your Catholic faith teacheth slavish obedience, more then any other religion. In that it maketh Emperors, Kings, Potentates, of the world, and civil Magistrates, so subject to the Pope; as to 〈◊〉 on their necks, to set them to hold his Stirrop, his brydle, to lead his Palfrey, to kiss his foot, &c. Which all be but duties of obedience on their behalfes, to set up his creatures, the Prelates of the Clergy, to be Lord's over God's Church, whose servants they ought to be. As your very Pope also professeth himself to be, the servant of the servants of God: But as Solomon saith. When a servant reigneth, or is Lord, it is one of the things of three or four for the which the earth is moved, & cannot sustain it self: So this, and such like slauishe obedience, is nothing to the commendation of your Popish religion: which in too vile speech and manner, subjecteth into it those that ye call of the Laytte. For obedience of subjects to Princes, it teacheth it so far, as may serve the turn of that religion, and their ambitious minds that I have spoken of. 2. The other part of your position here, is, to charge us & our religion, to wit, that the final ende of our doctrine & doing, is to have no governors or ruler at all; that all heretics and sectaries of our time (such you call us) in every country where they are contradicted, seek to disturb and molest by rebellion their Lord's and Princes, teaching the same to be lawful, that they rushe into everything with inordinate violence, and like of nothing that order and obedience layeth down unto them: which howe Clarkelike you prove, we shall, God willing, see in his place: for first have I to speak of you, your faith, doctrine, religiō & demeanor, touching obedience, & disobedience w ^t is y ^t mark you shoot at, or should be at least, if ye rightly handled or performed that ye take in hand. Thus muft I still put you in remembrance of, that where you should prove and show that your faith and your religion, that is, the popish faith and religion at this day, is the Catholic faith and religion, as you term it: there you fail in your proof. It must needs be supposed you are, Catholics, and we Heretics and Sectaries, because you say so without all proof: but the truth is far otherwise. False Catholics or Catholics in name, may go in opinion of men for Catholics, but true Catholics shall they never be. Leave this equivocation and ambiguity of words and speeches, and give us a sounder proof then hitherto, if ye have it; that Papists be true Catholics, and we Heretiks and Sectaries: else give us leave to believe, that all ye say is not Gospel. Our controversy is not with the Catholik religion in general, but with your Popish religion in particular. The profession and fruits of your Popish religion, and disobedience to our Sovereign, the State, and laws here: (if we go not without the compass of these times) will always stop you from making a good argument, to clear your religion from rebellion; namely, when you deal with her Majesty, who is privy of your whole doctrine and practice. If you make a perfect argument, either will one of your sentences be flat false, and so must be denied, and you put to a hard prufe; or else there is no remedy but ye must run, for a poor help to an Elench, and fallatiō which is a bad kind of reasoning: You y ^t cannot be reduced to conformity prescribed by your Superiors: Inducing you to your souls healths, to godliness, & to the common good & quiet of the country; had not need to brag of your obedience towards your superiors. But while you frame a good scholastical argument, to maintain your Popish religion, that teacheth and practiseth disobedience and rebellion against our common Sovereign and Queen, which will be a good while to: I having spoken thus much in general, will further and more particularly therewhilest enter to speak of your doctrine and demeanour herein: Then will I, (so much as shall be necessary) answer to those particulars ye object here against us, & our religion. And yet here entering into a large field, to rip up your corrupt doctrine and rebellious demeanour towards princes; there is so much matter to treat of, that in such plenty, it is hard to keep measure, to give over, and come out again, whereof notwithstanding I must have special regard, and mind so to do. This have I to desire you not to be offended with all: If I be anywhere found in the matter, to use the same law towards you, that you do towards us. For your doctrine therefore of obedience, and demeanour also: first I must admonish, without you were better, that we may not call you that be the children of the Pope and Popish religion at this day, to the Apostles doctrine and their rule and practice, set us down in the scriptures at the beginning; the things be too unequal, and we may be no bolder with you, then so far as your Church teacheth you, and your supreme Pastors voice, that is the Pope calleth you herein, and yet here fall some good words from you contrary to the rest of your doctrine, set us down in your books, and your demeanour at this day towards our sovereign. I hear what glorious show, your words have, and I see; you set us down in your margin. Rom. 13. Which heavenly doctrine we receive, we teach, we steadfast lie hold, and practice. The Scriptures are the foundation and ground of our profession, we cannot, we may not, we will not refuse them: our books as public records testify the same. Every soul must bring every mothers child of yours to be subject to our Sovereign & Queen, as to the chief, it is not spoken to lay men, as your gloss vpō the decretals, expoundeth it*. But I see you send us further in your margin to Saint Thomas, and om. Doct. that is all your doctors, & there is a Vide afore it, that is a watch word to look upon the matter.

As for Augustine, Chrysostom, & Ambrose. that come after your D. Tho. & om. Doct. They teache all one doctrine herein with the Apostles, and therefore trying that they say by that rule, & finding it conformable, we receive it w ^t their just commendation. They are no Popish teachers, but better expoūders of the scriptures, & morefaithful & sound in this point, the your late school Doctors, because M. How. bidsvs look: I wish the reader that understandeth Latin to look and see their Popish doctrine of the authority of a King or Emperor in the Decretalles, he shall see howe the Pope playeth legerdemain, falsefieth the Scriptures, and doeth worse if worse may be, showing what spirit he is led with. If that chapter and the gloss were in English it would loath any Christian ears. And again look Dist. xcvi. And yet many of that age are somewhat more indifferent teachers and dealers, than you hot and bad Catholics be, for the most parte now adays, that so grossly follow the Pope, and Popery that by writings & doings ye stir him up, and raise sedition against our natural Sovereign Prince, and yours, and this State and Realm, too unnaturally, vnduetifully, and unchristianly Iwis. I have looked syr, as your Author whom you follow willeth upon the place of your S. Tho. we are sent unto: In seeking I find never a word of this matter of Magistrates and obedience there, as which divided into three Articles treateth of the using of God's name, in adiuring: which belongeth to the third commandment, but you following your Author in citing and quoting places, who, for his great haste in writing had not time to suruiew or reed any parte of his treatise over again, and is therefore according to his request to be borne withal, it may be you were deceived also with him: But let that go as a small matter. Tell us yourselves, to what place of D. Thom. you send us rather than to that you name. In the mean while, as you and your Author say and set us down one and the self same thing, So your D. Thom. by your leave where in his sum he treateth of, that argument disagreeth from you both: which, that the reader may some what perceive, (though I like not to be so occupied) I will shortly set down both your words, & some parte of his also. Thus your Author whom you follow: The Catholyke church hath always taught her children that how hardly soever their Prince should deal with them, yet are they bound to bear it patiently & obey him for conscience sake as substitute of God & placed in that room for their punishment, if he rule not well, which apertaineth not to the sub iect to judge of. Good words, howe cometh it to pass that you Catholics use not yourselves thus towards her Majesty then: how cometh it to pass, that your fellows in their books printed abroad teache otherwise, & stir up sedition here then: Ye show yourselves to be another Baalams, or Caiaphas. children, whose mouths must serve the holy Ghost at this time, to utter y ^e truth, though the instrument & means be very unfit, & the whole serve your side to little purpose, who elsewhere teache & practice the contrary. Be not angry at the comparison, your own side 〈◊〉 Popish Prelates to Balaam & Caiaphas. But your D. Thom. to whom you send us, disputing whether man's law put necessitte on us in the Court of conscience, and having objected to the contrary (as his manner is) out of the tenth of Isaiah: Woe be to them that make unjust laws. &c. He answereth and saith, that that place speaketh of a law that layeth an unjust burden upon subjects, whereunto the order of power granted of God streacheth not itself. Wherefore in such cases man is not bound to obey the law, if he be able to resist without Scandale (that I may keep his word and your treatises) or greater detriment. And again, we must say: that a man is bound so far to obey secular princes as the order of Justice requireth. And therefore if they have not just but usurped principality, or if they command unjust things, their subjects are not bound to obey them; except peradventure by some accident, for the avoiding of scandal, or danger: and can ye make that obedience for conscience sake? Again in another place, agreeing with the Decrees, and alleging the authority of Pope Gregory the seventh, he writeth as perillously for her Majesty and this state, and all one with that which y ^e wicked Pope in his wicked Bulls hath at this day most wickedly published and set abroad, containing a most devilish Doctrine of Disobedience and a like practice, what ever you now tell in fair words, to flatter withal, in opinion you agree with these words of D. Thom. and apply all to and against our noble Queen and this State, as your practices too much prove. The wise man saith: He that hateth will counterfaict with his lips, but in his heart he layeth up deceit. Though he speak favorably believe him not: for there are seven abominations in his heart. Hatred may be covered by deceit: but the malice thereof shall be discovered in the Congregation. And that this, that I tell you of, is true among you, hot Catholics, as you will be called. I will at this time wade no farther in your S. Thomases sum, nor in your Popes Decrees and other writers of your side in former times: But let me be bold as you do object unto us the doctrine of one or two of our men: so for all, to set you down y ^e words at least of one of your cōpaniōs or great pillars & doctors rather of your present Popish church, that is fled from his Country, Prince, & us here, to Rome and abroad; there & thence, like a Popish Priest by practices & writings seeking to stir up among other seditious rebellions and treasons against her Majesty, and this State; which partly by writing, partly by posting between, is according to Commission and trust performed by him so far as he may to the uttermost. Saunders travail more laborious and 〈◊〉 , then sound, Godly, or wise, in his huge piece of work of the visible Monarchy of the Church; is against the present state of this Church and Realm of England, there needeth no other applier of the whole then himself; I suppose all you hot Romaine Catholics agree and be all of one mind in this behalf, & in the name of you all, he speaketh for the rest, especially seeing their voices being asked, they disagree not, any I know for, but 〈◊〉 y ^e same rather in their writing. In Saunders Epistle therefore (To the most vnreuerend Cardinals, John Moron and two other) before his visible Monarchy, not only Iyingly and slanderously chargeth he the godly laws of this Realm with impiety & tyranny, and that this I 〈◊〉 almost alone at this day in all Christendom plentifully yieldeth forth Martyrs, (so he calleth the Traitors that have been and a little before the writing here of were, executed here for their traiterous attempts, and other English Romaine Catholics, whereof in 〈◊〉 beaderoll he reckoneth us up a rabble.) But furthermore also, 〈◊〉 stirreth up the said Cardinals (as though it were very earnestly from hence sued for unto them) to travail by such means as they can, to deliver the people here (he meaneth such as himself is) from this so great and cruel tyranny, so he calleth the most moderate and peaceable government of her Majesty: whereunto also, after congratulation and commendation for his former late dealing with this Realm, her Majesty, and the State, he exciteth the unholiness of the Pope in his Epistle Dedicatory to him, comforting himself, & feeding other, and namely his Pope, with vain hope (this was about ten years since) that very shortly after, the runnegate Catholics, and their fellows, should be restored to their Religion and places here again, he dreamed of a dry summer: We may easily gather, howe and whence all the stirs here, since, arise and grow, and what the drifte of all is. If this be not seditious doctrine and demeneanor rebellious and traiterous, what is I pray you. God long bless and keep her Majesty among us. Proceeding further in his visible Monarchy thus mryteth he among other things: It belongeth vetily, to the Bishops especially both to pronounce the king himself an Heretike, or an Apostate, and also to declare that his subjects are afterward free from giving him any obedience, and that they ought to do their endeavor, that another be out of hand put in his place. Now if the subjects do not look to their office in this behalf, it longeth to the Pastors, to provide by any means they can, that he that sitteth in the chair of Pestilence reign not in the Church of God: this is the true obedience your Catholic Church teacheth her children to yield to their Princes for conscience sake. Is not saith Saunders the matter so, &c? do not the Pastors watch for the souls, as well of kings as of those which obey kings. It is their duty therefore to omit nothing that they shall know to be expedient for the souls health: & who seeth not that it is clean contrary to the souls health: that he should be suffered to reign over the Faithful, which is himself unfaithful, &c? Shall he then be worthy the name of a man that shall affirm that a wicked king ought not to be compelled, to clear and put himself out of his public charge. If at all, surely he must be put out for Heresy. How shall that controversy be judged without the resolution of the Doctors of the church, &c. Now Pastors & Teachers of the church can be no Judges of a king, except the king be in that thing less and inferior unto thē: For neither hath an equal power over an equal, nor an inferior over his superior. We affirm therefore justly that all Christian kings in matters appertaining to Faith are so subject to Bishops & Priests: that obstinately continuing in offending against Christian religion; after one or two admonitions for the same cause, they may & ought, by the sentence of the Bishops to be put from other temporal government, which they have over Christians. And yet again after in the same chapter, out of a great many, I take but a few sentences. Since therefore the wisdom of God hath not left his church (which is a City very well built & defensed) without a medicine for such a disease, ne yet can any other medicine help, than that may take away so evil a king from among the people, and give his kingdom to a better man. We must believe that such power at least was granted to the supreme pastour of the church (he cometh now from meaner Bishops to the Pope of Rome, whom he meaneth by that title) in these words: Feede my sheep, & whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth shall be bound also in Heaven. (To foul and shameless 〈◊〉 of the holy word of God) That the supreme Pastor may not only excommunicate a wicked king, but also free and set his subjects at liberty frō all obedience unto him: For if so be whatsoever Peter, or Peters successor upon earth loose, be also loosed in heaven, then truly when rightly and orderly he setteth faithful subjects at liberty from the obedience of a wicked king upon earth, the same subjects also are freed in heaven from the obedience of the same king. Again, if whatsoever peter, or Peters successor, bind upon earth be also bound in heaven, whensoever Peters successor of right and equity command any king either to leave his Royal dignity which he (so affected) unjustly holdeth, or to stop and hinder another king by all the means he can, which hindereth a faithful people from eternal life, least he perish in doing wickedly: that king is also bound in heaven, that is before God and his Angels, to obey the chief Pontifical bishops decree, except he will have his sins holden & not forgiven before God, &c.

Here is in general terms your Catholic doctrine truly set down by Saunders, who sent I trow, frō y ^e Pope, took a long journey into Ireland, where of late it is 〈◊〉 , he was and still is: to stir up like a Capitaine, and encourage the Trayterous hearts that he might meet with, and to see this doctrine of Pope holiness reverently obayed and put in practice so far as he might, against this state: for the which purpose served also your late flocking hither in sholes from beyond Sea, much about the same time, and your more publishing of seditious libelles than a good while before. As likewise in the year 1569. Nicholas Morton an English rennegate Priest, the Popes Penitentiary at Rome, was sent (saith Saunders) by the Pope into England (where he deserved ywis to 〈◊〉 cracked a rope) to stir up the Nobility against our Sovereign, & to do such other most vile offices, &c. Whose counsel they that followed in the North, felt the just reward & smarte of rebels for their rebellion, as the Romish Irlanders did, in following Saunders and his fellows coūsails of late. Here the Popish obedience your Catholic Religion teacheth & practiseth, cometh in fitly and hath his proper place.

Now that this Popish merchants opiniō & meaning towards her Majesty & this state, in particular, may be y ^e better know̄ out of his general doctrine before delivered. Let us hear yet further himself in this one place only & no more speak thereof: When the Apostolic sea saw that Elizabeth was fallen from the Church, and that the whole Realm of England was thereby become Schismatical, it sent once or twice Legates into England to recall that nation back again to their duty, but there was not so much as a way open for those Legates to enter into the Island, so far were they of from obtaining anything, which being thus, after ten years amendment looked for, and now almost despaired of: Pius the 5. the chief bishop turning to that only medicine which could be applied to so great a disease. In the year of our Lord 1569. he sent into England the reverend priest Nicholas Morton an English man, a Doctor of Divinity, one of his Penitentiary priests, solemnly by Apostolic authority, to declare to certain noble and Catholic mē, that Elizabeth which then governed was an Heretic, and for that cause was by the very law fallen from all superiority and power, which she then used over Catholics, and that she might lawfully be taken of them as an heathen & Publican, & that they were not henceforth bound to obey her laws or commandments. By which solemn declaration many noble men were brought so far that they provided not only for themselves, but took upon thē also to deliver their brethrē frō the tyranny of heretics. May not we here iustlier charge M Howlets Catholic Religion, his Pope, & his Bul. N. Morton, Saunders, & their doctrine, with teaching & practicing rebellion, than he doth Luther and his doctrine. Your flowers of Rhetoric (M. Howlet) will hardly wash this geere away: read, mark, and judge of the whole uprightly. Now they hoped (saith Saunders) that all Catholics would w ^t all their force have assisted so godly a purpose. But although the matter fell out otherwise than they looked for, either because all Catholics did not yet well know that Elizabeth was by public Law declared to be an heretic, or else because God had decreed more sharply to punish so great a defection of that kingdom: yet not withstanding those noble men's counsels or enterprises were to be commended, which wanted not their sure and happy success: for although they could not bring all their brethren's souls out of the pit of Schism, yet both they thenselves did notably confess the Catholic religiō, & many of them did give their lives for their brethren. (But very few noble men by your leave, & those taken rather through God's providence by force, than willingly yielding themselves) which is the highest degree of love (to do as traitors) & the rest rid thenselves frō the bondage both of heresy & sin into that liberty wherewith Christ hath freed us, (y ^t they are become Satan's & sins slaves all the days of their life) In old time S. Bernard had exhorted the Christians to go to Jerusalem: and yet was not the East Church delivered by that voyage, but they rather which went about to deliver their brethren from the yoke of the Saracenes died themselves a glorious death.

Now after he hath rehearsed at large a Munkishe miracle out of Godfry, a Munke, to show that that voyage to Jerusalem, was approved of God, Antichrists new Gospel must, and needeth to be confirmed by new miracles. Thus he speaketh of the rebels in the 〈◊〉 against her Majesty and the State. Who now, but he that is ignorant of God's counsels (whereof belike this good fellow is very privy) dare say that that confession of faith proceeded not from God, which certain Noble men of England made in arms: He meaneth the late Earls of Westmorland, Northumberlande, and their adherents. Surely that must needs be counted a miracle, saith he, that being almost five hundred of them, which took arms for the faith, (so reporteth he of the Northern traitors) which taken by the heretics, and put to death (so calleth he the State and her Majesty's ministers of justice there.) None of them was found which either forsook the Catholic faith: or accused the Authors of that war of any fault: They were very innocent and blameless sure, under pretence of their popish faith and religion, to take the sword in hand against their dread sovereign and ours, they must be so supposed, though this be iu deed most lewd in the highest degree. (And this man either was among them, and very privy to everyone of their deaths, or else which is most likely, he took thē report at their friends mouths and his, at seconde or third hand at least.) But many of them, being a little before reconciled to the unity of the Church: were well apayed, and greatly rejoiced in themselves, that they should depart this life, before they should with new wickedness, defile the peace (he meaneth) their reconcilement to the Romish Church, newely received, and they wished not to live any longer in that kingdom, which now a good while had ceased to live in Christ. It had been better you had been hanged with them. All of them at their death prayed that the restitution of the Catholic faith begun, might be happily achieved. They rejoiced by this tale in their own misery, and we in God's blessing, and the happiness of our country, delivered and eased of such traitors. So both sides were pleased, and all was well. Let Saunders himself now in Ireland do the like, and his complices, and if it like him: it shall not offend us. But I think he, & they will rather trust to a pair of heels, when they have kindled the fire of rebellion, if they see things prosper not, as N. Morton, and the Captains in that rebellion, left the people, when they had thrust them over the 〈◊〉 in rebelliō. This is their manhood, for all their great brags. A note of an evil conscience, and an evil cause. God send us better, and more resolute Captains, in defense of God's truth, our Prince and Country; He hath done it; Thanks be to his Majesty's therefore. I think the poor people of the North, that were then seduced by N. Morton, and induced by other that ran away, and left them in the briars when they had brought them into rebellion, be sufficiently warned to take heed of such mates, a good while again. I pray God they be; And he vouchsafe to give all good subjects grace to be warned thereby. After he hath thus set us down a popish Gospel, and doctrine, confirmed by like miracle or lying wonders &c. Told us also of a right confession of the Popish Catholic faith and religion, indeed high Treason, and rebellion, and so was punished: He reckoneth up near half a hundred by name, of the most famous traitors, & rebels that were in the North, popish confessors & Martires must we needs repute thē as he doth &c. I forbear to enter any further in laying abroad the dirty mire that this filthy varlet, made a priest at Rome it self, forsooth, hath cast us from him in his foresaid serpentine book, woorthylie Dedicated to Pope Pius 5. He may be called Impius well enough, for his dealing towards her Majesty, and this State, about that very time, even as his Successor since, this very Pope, lately also, and still dealeth. They can now a days tread in no other steppes. M. Howlet commendeth the nuyete and modest proceedings of the Catholic parte. But he that shall observe the vnquiete and vnmodest writing and proceeding but of this one English Roman Catholic of his, which is a chief Ryngleader among them, shall easily in him learn by the stamp and mark, to know an vncatholik, or rather to use M. Howlets phrase a Popish catholic and Sectarye, even As a Lyon is known by his Clawes, so lively showeth he him self in his colors.

It seemeth they have of late taken a new course in wrytinge, differing from the common sort of their predecessors afore time, for their writings now a days, besides the mingling of poison and diuilishe doctrine of Popery, are farced full of sedition and treason, as which seemeth, to be their principal intent and purpose, where unto they drive in their traitorous books which they set abroad, and bring hither among us. All lightly draw in one line, all agree in one, and with the Pope and his wicked Bulls jump, as the fit foundation and meet matter to stay and feed all trecherye and Treason on. We must needs have recourse to some men's writings and books at least, to show that they of M. Howlets sect and religion, teach disobedience and rebellion against their Princes. In some men likewise must we needs note demeanour & behavior, else can we not perform that which he so greatly here provoketh us unto. Again, M. Howlet doth the like in charging aforehand, the professors and profession of our Religion particularly and by name. I trust therefore I shall be borne with, in taking the like course here, whereas otherwise I protest, I had rather in silence have passed over this matter, then to have entered so far, and in particulars. The thing though abominable & lothsom to all godly minds and to be 〈◊〉 and spit at of all faithful subjects in this Realm, is yet too too notorious. I omit here Bristowes seditious motives approved by Doctor Allen forsooth, and such other Traiterous books, all agreeing in one. The answers made unto them by Godly and learned men, may be seen of them that list to understand more hereof. Let it suffice for doctrine, by this taste out of their Popish writers, to have shown howe shamelessly M. Howlet here entereth this common place of his Catholics teaching obedience to their Princes, and their quiet and modest proceedings, and that to and before her Majesty, whom of all other Christian Princes at this day, they most vilainouslye, and spitefully deal with all, setting down in books thus expressly their doctrine and mind, clean contrary to that they will here seem to affirm. Yet, before I leave this place of doctrine, I wish the reader among other the testimonies (M. Howlet ) out of the old fathers, quoteth here in the margin of his book, diligently to note and observe Chrysostom's words; in this very place that he sendeth us unto, whereunto agree the words of Theophylact. a later writer of their side, also vpō these words Let every soul be subject to the higher powers. &c. Although thou be an Apostle, (saith Chrysost. ) although thou be an Evangelist, although a Prophet, or whatsoever thou be else: for this subiectiō overthroweth not religion godliness. &c. Why thē should not your Pope himself be subject to the Magistrate, & civil pour: He is belike none of the children of the Catholic Church, or else the Catholic Church teacheth not all her children without exception, true obedience with the Cpistle, &c. Which you yet affirm by this fathers testimony, that you bring us forth. We hold to this doctrine of Saint Paul: Let every soul. &c. And of Saint Peter also, who calleth the king, the Highest: and it is well and truly thus explained by Chrysostom, without exempting any, and in this point, do you and we disagree: you see whom we follow.

Now let us come to see somewhat more of your Popish demeanour towards Princes. The practice of Prelates and Popelinges, and their whole study, and life at this day is almost nothing else, but a putting in ure ofseditious doctrine, and so hardly can the one be severed from the other. I will yet shortly touch two or three home matters of former times, besides that I have said, leaving foreign dealings abroad with Emperors, & kings, of other countries &c. What but naughty demeanour of the Pope made King Williā in his time allege: y ^t no Archebishop nor Bishop of his Reahne should have respect to the Court of Rome, or to the Pope; what but that moved the Emperor to reprove King Henry the third for suffering his Country to be so impudently impoverished by the Pope as it was; Himself also to plain of that matter by his Ambassador in the Council at Lions, & to repress the Popes Legate in this land 〈◊〉 were the Popes exactions here then; What demeanour of Pope and popelinges was that towards King Henry the second before: to take his Crown from his head, and so villainously to use him in maintenance and defense of a villanous traitors cause, as is reported; I do but occasion the Reader to consider of the hurly burlies, of this false Catholic Church and religion. What was that demeanour, to excommunicate King John, & to discharge his subjects; of the oth of allegiance to stir up war against him, and at lengthto bereave the King both of kingdom and life, after he had given his wicked definitive sentence, that he should be deposed from his estate, and had enjoined the execution thereof to y ^t French King for remissiō of his sins, & tohaue for his reward, the kingdom of England, he and his successors forever. He called this king John his Vassall or tenant: for y ^t after the Pope by his Legate 〈◊〉 phus, had taken the Kings Crown into his hand once, the good King could no other wise after enjoy it, but that he must acknowledge that he and his heirs must receive the same from the Pope. This dealing of Pope Innocentius against King John, may not be thought strange: for that in a solemn Council held under him at Rome, we find it decreed, that if a Temporal Lord being admonished by the Church, doeneglect, to purge his lande from heresy (we know what they called heresy then) he should be excommunicated by the Metropolitan, and the other Bishops of his Province, and if he refused to make satisfaction within a year, it should be signified to the Pope that he from thence forth should pronounce his Subiectes to be free from keeping or yielding fidelity to such a temporal Lord, & should expose his land to be invaded by Catholik es.

To come nearer home, and to speak of that most mighty Prince of famous memory King Henry the eight, within man's remembrance, what demeanour and proceeding was used in cursing, excommunicating, and such like stir keeping, to disturb, that victorious King of England, and the State of the whole Realm; For our liege Lady and dread Sovereign, most high and noble Queen Elizabeth, what and howe many things have been attempted, and howe many ways also, and yet still are, the thing is fresh and common, the rebellions so late in memory, the daily practices, and attempts by God's Providence so revealed and met withal, as I think ye can have no face to stand in the denial, though your Epistle blush not: Shortly to say, What Englishman soever, borne in this Realm, shall deny the superiority (or refuse to submit him self, upon the ground of his faith given to the Pope, & of his Popish or Roman religion under the power, authority, and civil government) of our dread Sovereign and Iawfull Queen Elizabeth, as God's Lieuetenant or chief minister, be he Apostle, Evangelist, Prophet, or whosoever and howsoever else ye list to call him: in resisting the order and ordinance of G O D, he is to be reputed of all men God's enemy, and no good Christian, but a very naughty man in so doing, &c. But such are your English Roman or hot Catholics, as her Majesty, and the State chargeth you, and all the world seeth, and you yourselves dissemble not, in allowing your Popes Bulls, and other writings thereupon grounded, & agreeable thereto, and in your ouuert and open dealings: whereof may easily be gathered, what manner of men, ye are to be reputed towards God and the world, although I hope well in God that there be not many such here in England.

If, because you be disputers ye ask Scholastical arguments, and yet if one argue with you out of the scriptures, you make little account thereof, thinking the bare Scriptures (so can ye speak) too sclender stuff to convince you withal: Therefore grounding upon your own doctrine, which is of more weight with you, and upon the law of this Realm, which decideth cases of Treason here, I purpose (God before) to prove some what further this way. Albeit I must suppose that you be not ignorant of the pointes of your own doctrine, and that true hearted Englishmen know the Soueraigntie of our Prince and Queen, and so their duties towards her Majesty, taught them first in God's word; and afterward expressed here further by the laws of this Realm in Acts of Parliament &c: Yet having laid the one and the other as the foundation of the arguments that I mind to make you: Let me, so much as shall be necessary hereunto, note in sum the the words of your doctrine and our law, and then from both see, if I can frame some few Scholastical arguments, that ye may thereby perceive, that it is not hard, for him that list y ^t way to exercise himself, to bring many & substantial arguments against you in this case of doctrine, & demeanour of disobedience, and Treason towards superiors

Thus is it written in your popish decrees, and thence taken and repeated by your D. Thomas in his sum, where he treateth of subjects discharge frō the government of their princes, and from their oath, and fidelity towards them. We holding the statutes of our holy predecessors by Apostolic authority, do absolve them from their bond, which are bound by fidelity or oath to them that be excommunicated, and by all means forbid that they keep not fidelity to them till such time as they come to satisfaction. Now add to this, your Popes late traitorous Bulls in her Maiestics case, and this Realms, where with you are but too well acquainted: & forget not your own profession and doing at this day. And so let the perpetual doctrine of your supreme pastour and his supreme authority acknowledged, received, and in practice followed by you, be for one parte, the ground and proof of the Arguments that I shall propound unto you, Or if you 〈◊〉 further: let N. Saunders, a principal pillar of your Popish English Synagogue beyond Sea, speak particularly for all. Of whose speech in this case I have given you a taste before, out of his visible Monarchy. On the other part let those that be presently of that state, here, (to go no further of) speak on the other side, and report us whether you hot Catholics be traitors &c, or no? Fume not, fret not, at my words nor at any other private man's: but examine y ^e matter & your own conscience herein. And because ye talk of the renting of your Catholic hearts at these words and the like: which being double, may with murmuring and grudging possible be vexed to. little purpose and sone rent a sunder. Therefore for your good, this way, here God's counsel, rather by the holy Prophet. Rent your hearts and not your clothes, and turn to the Lord your God: for he is gracious and merciful, flowe to anger, and of great kindness.

Now these are the words of the Acte of Parliament that is not yet dissolved, in the last Session holden at Westminster from the xvi. day of January last past, until the xviii. of Marche following. I leave the former Statutes and laws.

Be it declared and enacted by the authority of this present Parliament, that all persons whatsoever, which have or shall have, or shall pretend to have power, or shall by any ways or means, put in practice to absolve, persuade, or withdraw any of the Queens Majesty's subjects, or any within her Highness Realms and dominions, from their natural obedience to her Majesty, or to withdraw them for that intent, from the religion, now by her highness authority, established within her Highness Dominions, to the Romish religion, or to move them or any of them to promise any obedience to any pretended authority of the Sea of Rome, or of any other prince, State, or Potentate, to be had or used within her Dominions, or shall do any oucrt Act, to that intent or purpose and every of them, shall be to all intents adjudged to be traitors: & being thereof lawfully convicted, shall have judgment, suffer & forfeit, as in case of high treason. And if any person shall after the ende of this Session of Parliament, by any means be willingly absolved or withdrawn as aforesaid, or willingly be reconciled, or shall promise any obedience to any such pretended authority, Prince, State, and Potentate, as is aforesaid: that then every such person their procurers and counselors there unto, being thereof lawfully convicted, shall be taken, tried, and judged, and shall suffer & forfaire, as in cases of high treason.

Hereupon may one hardly and heavily, as me thinketh reason against you is this case of treason. And if I may be so bold, as to deal with so great Clerks: thus after my rude manner make I my blunt arguments.

Whosoever at this day by profession hold, y ^t our dread sovereign Queen Elizabeth is an excommunicate person, and the present state heretical or schismatical, and so to be abhorred, are reputed traitors, and so ought too be taken.

But all English Romanists that call themselves Catholics are such, that is: at this day by profession hold, that our dread sovereign Queen Elizabeth, is an excommunicate person, and the present state heretical or schismatical and so to be abhorred.

Ergo. All English Romanists that cal themselves Catholics are reputed, traitors & so ought to be taken.

No religion that approveth the Popes authority, doctrine & practice in excommunicating and depriving of Kings, Queens, &c, of their estate, whom he calleth heretics, is unjustly touched by us English men, to teache disobedience and rebellion against their Princes.

But all Catholic Roman religion approveth the Popes authority, doctrine, and practice in excommunicating and depriving of Kings, Queens, &c. of their estate whom he calleth heretics.

Ergo No Catholic Roman religion, is unjustly touched by us English men, to teach disobedience and rebellion against their Princes.

Al persons that by writing, or otherwise, persuade any within her Majesty's Realms and Dominions from the religiō now by her Highnes authority established, to the Romish religion, thereby withdrawing them from their obedience to her Majesty to yield the same to the Sea of Rome: are by the law here reputed traitors.

But you M. Howlet, your author, N. Mortone N. Saunders, Allen, Bristow, with other like do so, that is: by writing, or otherwise persuade within her Majesty's Realms and Dominions from the religion now by her highness authority established, to the Romish religion, thereby withdrawing them from their obedience to her Majesty, to yield the same to the Sea of Rome.

Ergo M, Howlet, your author N. Saunders, Allen, Bristow, with other like, are by the law here reputed traitors.

No religion that condemneth Queen Elizabeth our Sovereign of heresy, & so forth, to the great prejudice of her royal estate and person and so the common hurt of us all, is unjustly touched for disobedience or rebelliō against her majesty.

But your pretended Catholic religion condemneth Queen Elizabeth our Sovereign, of heresy, & so forth, to the great prejudice of her royal estate and person, & so the common hurt of us all.

Ergo Your pretended Catholic religion is not unjustly touched for disobedience and rebellion against her Majesty,

If these arguments, in zeal & defense of our sovereign and the state press you, or be thought sharp & to touche the quick, thank yourself, that by entering your commō places & odious cōparisons, forcibly draw the same from us. Once the Syllogisms or arguments be scholastical, y ^t is: good & perfect enough, in the perfectest moodes & perfectest figure. You hear now the opinion y ^t is of you, here, not of one man, or spitefully uttered, but commonly, & too well grounded for you to deal with: either repent, crave pardon, come home, and live like dutiful Subjects, y ^t such violent arguments proceed no further, which with all my heart I wish you to do) or else, if you like that best, provide answer to solute such like arguments, which will be very hard for you to do, I will say no more herein: but a parls Dilemma or straight, are your Roman Catholics, brought into, if you be argued against in the pointes of doctrine and demeanour for obedience to our dread Sovereign Queen Elizabeth out of your own Popish school doctrine, and practice of old & at this present, and out of the laws of this Realm now in force, and withal be put to make a direct answer thereunto. Press us no further in the matter if you be wise; rather take heed that by your doctrine and demeanour towards her Majesty, and the State, ye be not brought within the compass of the law, and there an ende: But that cannot be unless you alter the course you have of late taken, and still do, or the whole state for your pleasures only be altered. I wish and desire, for your own sake (M. Howlet ) though I know you not, that you be not of the opinion and usage of such Catholics as I have set down, that ye take heed thereof, or leave the same in some time, that ye may be 〈◊〉 & taken in the number of good & dutiful subjects you & your author w ^t others. So as, y ^t which I have spokē vpō supposition only, of your agreement with the rest of your fellows at Rome, Reims, &c. and namely, N. Saunders, may not be understanded of your own persons: but of those and such Catholics only as seditiously from beyond Sea write, and accordingly practice against her Majesty, and the State here, & further would I not have my words stretched to touche any particular person unless his own Conscience tell him he agree with them, or her Majesty, the State, and his own doings find him culpable. This may serve to check the great and weighty Motiues that you here make mention of, and such as your Author or you seem to promise shall follow, and to show that the proceedings of your Catholic part be not so quiet & modest as is in words to her Majesty here pretended: neither they such important a stay in every of her Majesty's Countries as is here iollily bragged. Though upon occasion I have been round in this matter, and it may seem sharp that I here utter: yet let the matter be well weighed, and I shall not be found I trust to have exceeded the bounds, of truth and charity. I protest that I mean not to excite, or stir up my Sovereign to any cruelty, or the State, or any of authority here: though on the other side I be so far of from disliking of justice and execution of wholesome laws, that though the same turn to the hurt and mischief of some; yet I like that better, then that an inconvenience should grow to the public state. Let mē look to themselves: but that it is not requisite or needful nor my part to deal in prescribing nor yet in advising the wisdom of those that rule this State. I am so far of from hastening any particular man's undoing, that I would wish, which I am assured is without me thought of, and sought: that all means might be used, to the recalling of men home, conferrence and other, before execution especially of death. And is it not so? I do but prevent the adversaries cavil, and show my purpose and meaning. I need not, nor list not to wade any further herein. The particular rebellions in the North, Ireland, and such other sturs, from time to time, by your Catholic part, (as to well known to all men) I here omit.

Further to diduct, and come now to answer, that which is objected in this behalf to us by the adversary; which generally consisteth, as the former in doctrine and demeanour. For our doctrine of Magistrates & obedience (as we profess no other then that which is set us forth, and plainly laid us down in the holy scriptures:) So I marvel again, that (M. Howlet, ) being an English man, leaveth out those public testimonies and writings of our 〈◊〉 in this matter: which to the view of the world are published by this Church, both in Latin and English, to express their judgment herein; and chargeth our doctrine with particular men's books, and teachings of late years, to bring hatred and displeasure, or spitefully to wreck and revenge himself upon someone man, if he can do no more: where of though some be alive, yet others are dead, & so cannot answer for thenselves: but their books must be their clering to all y ^t world: If the godly doctrine, we profess here, had been by you read with a single heart, & (before rash judgment) well weighed, as in y ^e books aforesaid is declared, you would have forborne, I take it, these words y ^t : our final end is, as our doctrine declareth: To have no governor or ruler at all. Whence you took this doctrine, you y ^t are so full of quotatiōs, here quote us nothing. And we tell you plainly, y ^t things devised by your brame, or picked out of your fingers ends, be none of our doctrine, we say it is a great and untrue slander ye charge this Church with. Her Majesty (though diverse times disturbed in her State, by you false Catholics) hath reigned in a Gospelling time, now above twenty years, as chief governor by y ^t doctrine of y ^t Gospel, & ruler over y ^t professors thereof, in much honor & great quiet, highly to God's glory, her Majesty's singular commendation, & y ^t exceeding comfort of all true hearted englishe mē, her Majesty's natural & most bonden subjects: and many moe years may she reign we daily do beseech y ^t almighty, to y ^t promoting of Christ's holy Gospel, y ^t benefit of his Church, & her own comfort & honor: Though it be to y ^t regret & renting of all popish Catholic hearts in Christendom. To charge our doctrine about Magistates w ^t all, you set us down three or four sentences, takē out of three worthy men. Christ's faithful soldiers, and servants in their time. The first is, M. John Wycliffe, one of our progenitors, say you, one of the singular instruments, that it pleased God, in his time to use, for the advancement of his Gospel, say we: and so rare a one, that he might justly be counted among the rest, a bright star, shining, and giving light to a great many, to their inestimable comfort; he opened long since, such a wicket as greatly profited the postetitie in God's matters. The seconde whom you allege, is Doctor Martin Luther, whose rare and excellent gifts every way, mightily, both astonished the highest of your side in state Ecclesiastical and 〈◊〉 , and no less furthered and profited God's cause, and encouraged all the godly, by his godly and learned writings, and otherwise. The third is, that odd and incomparable man of our time: The reverend Father, and most painful and faithful Pastor and Teacher in Christ's Church, M John Calvin; Whom, though your heart swelt, you cannot discredit among God's servants,, nor justly stain his travails and writings, left among us for the benefit of God's Church, so hath it pleased his majesty, to bless this good man's labors: The Devil, I confess, as in other, hath been very busy in his instruments, to deface, and disgrace this excellent man diverse ways, but ever their mischiefs returned upon their own pates, and they, even as many as have risen and bent thenselves against him, have had the foil to their shame: Although, we highly praise God for these men, and for his great gifts in them, as in others, giving them likewise their due comēdation, as reasō is, yet would I y ^t you M. Howlet, and your fellows should know, we make none of them, nor them all, our Pope, to depend of them and their authority, ne yet the Authors of our religion, as you do the man of sin at Rome: But we reserve this privilege to Jesus Christ alone, w ^t out being addicted to any man's doctrine or writings, for faith and religion, further then he shall teach us by canonical scriptures. All these men are dead & gone, & ye might have let them rest in peace w ^t out slanderously charging them, if it had so pleased you, M. Howlet.

But it shall not be amiss to enter into particular examination of that ye say: first therefore let us see, what it is ye charge M. Wycliffe withal, and howe you do it: John Wycliffe say you, one of their progenitors teacheth: that a Prince if he rule evil, or fall into mortal sin, is no longer prince, but that his subjects may rise against him and punish him at their pleasures.

If Wyckliffe should have holden any error, the times wherein he lived considered, it were not greatly to be marueyled at: God rather is highly to be praised, that in so corrupt and blind times, he saw and held the truth in many pointes. We are not, we may not, nor no reason why we should be y ^e mainteiners of any mens errors. This article, as it is set us down here by you, is (That I may say what seemeth to me) not only false, but also seditious, & so is it reputed among us; & y ^t which ye father vpō M. Wycliffe here, agreeth better with the Pope and your Popish religion, then with the Gospel of Christ, and our religion. Doth not your Pope and Popish religion disable, and seek to dispossess any lawful prince: only supposed by those of your side to fall into the mortal sin of heresy, and arm his subjects against him; Your selves also must define both mortal sin and heresy too, full evil favoredly ywis, as all men may easily see. Did not Wycliffe in his life time write that the Clergy, moved by the Friars, went about that matter here in Englnade; hath not the Pope your father, claimed the right of disposing all civil and earthly Kingdoms; hath he not called the King of England (to omit other) his vassal; as though he held his kingdom, but as his tennant, and at his pleasure. I have shown you before, where you shall find our doctrine and profession of Magistrates more sound, holy, and reverent then yours, else would I be ashamed of it. But you will say you send us to the places, where we shall find that this was Wycliffe's doctrine; howe say we to that; I say you do it full ilfauouredly, you quote us in deed three places, whereof two are pretended to be taken from the lying spirits and writings of God's adversary, and Wycliffe's. The third untruly, as far as I can see, out of his own works, which are very hardly come by now a days, and yet as I could, recovered I 〈◊〉 Trialogue. And I have read, & read again, the third Chapter of the fourth book of Wycliffe's Trialogue, where you send us to seek, that ye impose upon Wycliffe, whereof I pray you entreateth, he there; for sooth this is the argument. To show in this speech of Christ: This is my body. What is signified by this word, This. wherein (establishing the truth) he mightily overthroweth your Popish corrupt doctrine of this Sacrament. Now for M. Wycklyff, to teache in that place the article you set us down, were nothing to the purpose. And this I say: if any such word as ye report be in this place ye send us unto, let me leese my credit forever, if not, let y ^e Christiā reader take heed forever howe he trust your lying spirit in quoting things. Howe can you report truth of us when your religion forbiddeth to read our writings, unless it be to reprove them: ye know your own terms best. Ye take all one from another's report, and being our sworn enemies, howe is it to be thought you will report truly of us, and of our opinions and writings: but the fault may possibly be in the Printer; or you taking this from your Authors second promised parte, unperformed yet, might be deceived; as indeed you or he set us down in another place this article to be in the 36. chapter of the 4. book of Wycklyffs Trialogue. Thus your Author and you lead about the reader uncertainly, not knowing where to seek y ^t you allege, There is as much to be had of this article in the 36. chapter of that book, as in the place before alleged, which is nothing at all. The matter he handleth in this 36. chapter is, how Friars so greatly poisoned kingdoms wherein they dwelt, as in those days they did: So, we send you still to seek us a new place for this article in Wycklyff. Mark your words, Cogge not, foist not, Tell us where the words, as you set them down be to be had? Tell us not what begging and lying fryers may have devised, or your enuyous Papistical writers of this man's doctrine: you set us the article down as though it were his own words: I am not ignorant that in Wycklyffs life time, not much an unlike slander (as the latter part of your article containeth) was raised against the profession of the Gospel by the wicked fryers, that then lived.

Now come I to the two other places you send us unto in your marginal quotation. I marvel you be not ashamed to send us for the report of Wycliffe's doctrine, to his so deadly enemies: one of the testimonies is fetched but from a yesterdayes byrde to speak of, who was unborn many years after Wycliffe was dead, I mean that obstinate enemy to Christ's Gospel, brawling and railing Cocleus, who is said to have died 1552. well toward 200. years after Wycliffe’s days, whose books long before y ^t time, being condemned to be burnt, were then hardly to be gotten & neither sought after but to that end, nor regarded by those of your side; but let that enemies testimony of Wycliffe’s doctrine go, as not worth the examining. The Council of Constance remaineth as the third testimony herein. It seemeth ye make great account of that, for you set it in the first place, you will say peradventure it is a public testimony, & is grounded upon moe testimonies also. I read Wycliffe's articles set down by diverse and confuted by some of your side, yet do I not find by the former reporters, no not Popes and Papists that lived about that time this article, as you set it us down, and in this Coūcel of Constance, you 〈◊〉 not this article you charge him with here, so are you a false reporter of the Council too. Which I say not, to 〈◊〉 their spite and hatred that were there assembled against poor Wycliffe, and such other: Wycliffe's books 〈◊〉 then & before that time were condemned to be burnt, so 〈◊〉 no man might read, keep, have, or use any of them but to their reproof: he also was before the assembly of that 〈◊〉 , many years dead, and was by the unholy fathers 〈◊〉 assembled, appointed to be taken up again, and his bones to be burnt, so fervent and hot was their Popish charity or rage rather according to their custom in these later times. Now when Wycklyff was dead and his books thus consumed by fire, no mastrie for them that had all the world at will and commandment, to make men believe Wycklyff wrote that, which they his mortal enemies listed to charge him with: but let thē believe it that list, we are not bound to their report. And yet syr, though that conncel, set Wycklyffs articles down to malicioussy, we find not this article in y ^t Sessiō of y ^t council, y ^e you set us down. If you refer us to y ^e 15. article there set down against Wycklyff, you take away for your vaūtage; you spitefully add as good as half in this article you set us down; other enemies to y ^e Gospel & to Wycklyff afore time have dealt less shamelessly in setting down this article then you do: so doeth at this day Saunders your own man, which gathereth all he can, wherein Wycklyff may seem to disagree from other profefsours of the Gospel, and writers of these times: your article I find not there. But let me be bold M. Howlet to go a little further with you for your council of Constance (whence one part of your article may seem to be derived) because councils be of so great moment with you & carry a great show, & this is your first and principal testimony here against Wycklyffs doctrine. I demand of you howe you like the resoiution of Constance council in subjecting the Pope to a council: howe their proceeding against Hus, and Jerome of Prague, contrary to all equity, and the Emperors safe conduit then given? To leave other matters, the council of Constance you will say, was a notable and famous council and yet was it but a branche of Pysan council, 〈◊〉 Pope Alexander, and of the council, holden at Rome 〈◊〉 John the 23. where one of your predecessors, a foul Madge howlet presided, frō whom possible by traditiō you received this article you charge M. Wycklyff withal here, as the council of Constance it self sendeth us thither: but, to return to your testimony out of the council of Constance, who I pray you called that council? Who was then head of your Church and council when it was called; Who was President in it? forsooth say they in the inscription and title of that council in the very entrance: our most holy father in Christ and Lord, Lord John, by God's providence the 23. Pope. This holy father and Lord, this worthy president in the same Council, was not supposed to be lawful Pope, his title was not taken to be good: but Gregory the 12. rather as is by diverse of your greater Clerks decided: if anyes title that then occupied that seat were good. Again, he was condemned & deposed for heresy, simony, incest, & a heap of sins moe, wherein he waltred from his youth up, which are there charged & proved at large in above 50. several articles: a meet president for such a council. Furder, syr, this council of Cōstāce & y ^t of Rome to, was kept, whē there was a great & horrible schism in your Popish Church: not as had now of many years continued between 2. Popes, but between three: for there were then 3. Popes at once: this John, one Benedict, and Gregory, and all three were put out, or removed by this council of Constance as unlawful I trow, and the 4. Martyn the 5. put in and made Pope for all. Besides, syr, it is not vnlykely that the same spirit cōducted this council that had begun to do the same at Rome afore; For this council was but a prorogation of the general council begun before at Rome, as the Popes Bull, for the calling of this Constance Council doeth witness. The council also and Cocleus refer to the Roman general council, and at the entering of their council after their Hymn: Come holy Ghost, &c. was soung; there was answer made to the unholy Fathers request, by whomsoever it were, and publicly set up in the Temple, thus. BEING OTHERWISE OCCVPIED, WE CANNOT NOW BEE PRESENT WITH YOU. Lastly (syr) that I may at length come out of this filthy puddle, Ask but even your own fellow N. Saunders, and he will tell you, as I take it, as he writeth, that the council can never well be counted General, that was called of one only bishop of Rome of y ^t three y ^t then were, & y ^t was kept by the Prelates of one part only, &c. These be Saunders own words: And no man (saith he further) denieth that a council, which is not universal, may err in decreeing anything. And so (by your leave M. Howlet ) doth this particular council of your devilish Pope, in condemning Wycklyff, & other professors of the Gospel. Give us leave to be as bold with the decrees of it, as your own men are. The sum of the answer to this article objected against us, in M. Wycklyffs person is this, that the article it self whose soever it be, is devilish and ungodly, & if Wyckliff should have held it, it had been but the remnants of y ^e dregs of Popery that he had aforetime sucked, and was not then yet well cleared of: which I may justly doubt of, & deny to be his, til you bring more sufficient & soūde testimony thē here you do for proof of it: & so turning y ^t doctrine & article home to you where it was first bred: I leave it.

For y ^t worthy man of God M. Luther, whose words (to quarrel against him as though he should condemn or cōtēne Magistrates ) out of Pope Leo his Bull, Popish Cocleus, again & Surius a Charter house Monk of Coolen, are said to be these: that Christians are free & exempted from all Princes laws, first, though I be weary now in following you to examine your Authors, & false allegations, and these here brought, to report us Luther's doctrine, were all Papists, and so his mortal enemies, & thereby not to be regarded what they say of him & his doctrine, yet here somewhat to note your impudency still, I tell you (M. How.) in fetching light at other men's candles, ye trust your friends too much, & are too often̄ deceived; you send us here to Pope Leo the 10. Bull: it may be some of the Popes vnwrittē verities, whereunto you (M. How.) as his spirit (being more priuey than we) may suggest us y ^e same by tradition: for I say perusing his printed Bul, even as the same is set us down by your selves: I find never an article there, like unto this, you here set us down. There be I confess diverse articles imposed upon Luther, by the Pope and in the margin noted: Luther's chief Heresies. Why did not you take some of them there recited that it might have appeared you had looked at least upon the Bull that was written by your Pope against Luther's errors, as he saith, & that we might have there found y ^t , where you sent us to seek it. Ye walk (M. Howlet) too confidently, dealing especially w ^t her Majesty, Now as this your article is not found in the Popes Bull whether you send us: so, much less is the same to be sought for or looked to be found, in the assertion of the articles there condemned. But I must take another course; I will suppose the words to be Luther's, leaving your credit and your Popish writers: And therefore I say next, that he meaneth touching matters of the soul, conscience, and the life to come. And speaking thus, saith he, I pray you, anymore than the blessed Apostle, when he saith, There is neither Jew, nor Graecian, neither bond nor free, neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus, &c. And yet the Apostle meaneth not thereby to take away the distinction that God hath put in man's nature, nor the states of this present life, but speaketh only in respect of Christ, and his spiritual kingdom: even so doeth Luther, in some respect only, even touching their souls, & things properly belonging to the heavenly kingdom and everlasting life, teache that Christians are free and exempted from all Princes Laws, and not simply & every way, or for this life and civil government. The collection therefore that picked out of your fingers ends, you and your Pope, & Popish writers, to whom you here send us, of yourselves may and would fain gather: as though Luther's doctrine were the cause of the famous rebellion that followed in Germany, or such like, is not worth a half penny: you may keep it to yourselves. It is, as if one should reason: immediately after a storm followeth fair weather: therefore the storm is cause of the fair weather, &c. here in very few lines, besides forgery, are at the least two gross deceyts or fallacions (as they cal them in the schools) And if ye thus gather: whose doctrine was the cause of the like famous rebellion of the countrymen there, above twētie years before? and so some number of years ere Luther professed the Gospel: Luther's doctrine was the cause of that rebellion: even as Christ; A stumbling stock, and a Rock to make men fall, is cause of the destruction of the wicked: & he; and his Gospel, of the sword, and division in the world. Howe Luther misliked their seditious proceeding, Can it better appear than by his godly and earnest writing unto them and against them even at that very time? Wherof, see in the beginning of the fifth book of Sleydans Commentaries at large, But let me be bold, leaving other here, and matching one with one, to set down your glosses words and the collection that is made thereupon in Commentary upon Commentary, which at length corrupteth the Text: As you do Luther and his words by your 〈◊〉 and false collection. In the Gospel after S, Matthew, where our Savior Christ, speaking of paying tribute to Ciuile Magistrates, saith: to Peter: Howe seemeth it to thee Peter: the kings of the earth of whom do they take tributs or custom, of children, or of strangers? Then Peter saith unto him, of strangers, then Jesus saith unto him, then the children are free, &c.

Your gloss taking the same from another hath: If in every kingdom, the sons of that king which is over the same kingdom, be free: Then the sons of that king to whom all kingdoms are subject, ought to be free in every kingdom, Hence is collected: Because Christians be God's sons. To whom all kingdoms be subject, that therefore they are free frō paying tribute to any Ciuile power? so seem the words of the gloss literally expounded, to import. Others expound the words of the gloss of the children's freedom, concerning y ^t soul, which abideth free as evē your S. * Tho. speaketh, and not concerning the body and bodily subjectionn which is due to superiors.

Give us then like liberty and leave, or Luther himself to expound howe, and howe far, Christians are free and exempted from Princes laws, as you take yourselves, for to salve your gloss, & you nor any shall have just cause to plain of his doctrine. D. Luther's words I am sure will better bear a good and honest exposition for the souls and consciences of men than your glosses: and sommes collection of your side upon the same will do, for your Popish clergies immunities; he is no small one of your sort (to omit other at this time) that in a third commentary, gathereth thus upon the words of the gloss before mencioned, after he hath cited Thomas his exposition. The gloss might notwithstanding be othcrwise expounded (saith he) in saying that by the sons of the eternal king or kingdom, he understandeth not all Christians, but those that rule in the kingdom as childrē or sons. And these are bishops, priests, & those y ^t forsaking all, follow Christ which shall judge the world: for these in this world as the kings sons, by their state must set forth and cherish the kingdom of God, & ought also to be free, from y ^t bondage or service of temporal Lord's. And this agreeth (saith he) with the doctrine of our Savior, whilst he insinuateth that Peter the Apostle is free, adjoining least we offend thē; pay for thee. And w ^t y ^e gloss, speaking of freedom, in this life, while he saith: the childrē of the kingdō under which all kingdoms are, ought to be free in every earthly kingdom. Here is much a do: for here is first the Glose upon the text, somewhat obscure, then here is Thomas expounding the gloss, to salve it, & hold it upright, y ^e rather because it is taken out of Augustine, then here is yet further Cardinal Cajetan, commenting upon Doctor Thomas. who upon the gloss still (for there is all the matter) pleadeth, for the immunity of the Clergy, and concludeth full ill favoredly: for by this Doctors exposition, both Christ and the gloss, serve to exempt Bishops, Priests, Friars, and y ^e rest of the Popish Clergy, from paying tributes, and from other bodily subjection to civil Magistrates, according to the immunities given them by their Pope. Now let the reader scan, matching this Popish doctrine with Luther's, whether teache more looseness from obedience to civil Princes, this doctrine of the Gospel thus delivered by Luther, or y ^e contrary delivered by your Pope & his chāpions. This may serve for the clering & opening of these words of Luther here set down, & y ^e right expositiō & taking thereof, according to y ^e Authors meaning, especially, seeing they stand as words culled out of his books vpō y ^e report of y ^t Pope only & Papists. If any list to see more for D. Luther's clering, let him look upon other which answer Popish sclanders, wherewith they go about to charge this holy man of God, and namely upon that worthy and learned father M. Jewel, against Harding, even in this matter of Magistrates and obedience.

Because M. Calvin is said by M. Howlet, to agree with the doctrine of M. Luther, as in deed he doth, whereupon he might have easily understood the meaning of the sentence, taken out of M. Luther, (If it had so pleased him) and with his Pope, have left it out of the number of Luther's heresies, as it pleased them to call his doctrine: Therefore come I now to that divine and learned father, M. Calvin. This I like, for M. Calvin in you, better than in that is before, that ye send us to his own works: the first place ye charge this godly man withal (Though ye bastard and corrupt the same by your gloss) ye take out of the 10. Chapter of the fourth book of his Institution, the 2. and last out of the 19. Chapter, of the 3, book of the same Institution: But sir, in neither of both doeth he make any large or further discourse of Princes, and Subiectes: If ye would have known, or described to other his judgment in that matter, ye should have repaired, and sent us to y ^e place where at large, & of purpose he ētreateth thereof, which he doth in the twenty or last chapter of the fourth book of his Institution; expressly handling there the heavenly authority of Magistrates, and the duty of good and obedient subjects, which Chapter is written wholly of Politique gouermnent: Wherein (M. Howlet ) prove him, if you can, to have written ungodly, seditiously, or untruly, No, as he writeth very godly, and with great authority of scriptures and reason, so doth he very reverently and modestly also, if any other writer old or new (as they say) do so; after another manner and sort, then either you here do to her Majesty, for all your flattering flowers, or then your sort have of late, or now do of Princes and 〈◊〉 else where. I would wish the godly and Christian reader, to be well acquainted with this M. Calvin's writings, and I doubt not to affirm to be true here, that was else where said. Let him think he hath greatly 〈◊〉 in matters of religion: who is brought into a love and liking of Calvin's writings. And yet I make neither him my God, nor his writings my Bible, for all this reverent thinking and speaking of him and his writings. Even in this matter of Magistrates: I pray thee gentle reader, look but into that last Chapter, and thou shalt see, it shall be hard for thee to read else where, 〈◊〉 or profoūder judgment of a divine, for the excellent dignity of civil Princes and Magistrates, or for subjects, and private men's obedience, to thy satisfaction and contentmēt, and to be able with all, to confute, whateuer M. Howlet, or his side can cavil against this servant of GOD, or Christ's religion here 〈◊〉 . I will not now stand in diducting this matter but note thus much by the way, and now come M. Howlet, to answer your glenings and pyckings out of his writings. In the 10. Chapter of the 4. book of his Institution, he treateth of the authority of the Church in making laws, and of the Popes and popish Prelates tyranny over men's consciences in that behalf: and namely, handling this question, whether it be lawful for the Church by her laws, to bind men's consciences, he freely inveigheth against your popish Churches, licentiousness in that behalf, without any whit preiudicing politique order, only reserving men's souls and consciences free, to be spiritually guided by God, Christ, and his holy word, in the matters appertaining to the souls health and salvation Now, M. Howlet, if this doctrine mislike you, that men's souls and consciences should be above the cōpass of men's authority and laws, then condemn our 〈◊〉 Christ, the Prophets, and Apostles, with M. Calvin, who make one spiritual Judge, King, Lord, and Lawgiuer over men's souls, that is able to save and destroy, willing us so to give to Ceasar, those things that are Caesar's, that we give to God the things that are God's, to fear him that hath authority to cast into hell, and to destroy both soul and body there: Whereas men, what power soever they have over the body, afterward can do nothing more, nor are not able to kill the soul. Again, Ye are bought with a price, be not the servants of men. Stande in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free: and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. In the kingdom of God, there is neither Jew nor Grecian, circumcision nor uncircumcision, bond nor free, male nor female, but ye are all one in Christ, & he is all in all things. And yet in place, may this distinction be made and, must also be as I noted before. Your fault herein is, that ye distinguish not aright between the civil and outward Courte: and the Spiritual Courte of conscience, as they speak, and Master Calvin here noteth, and else where also, howe ever your Fafather, and Church have taken upon them, to deal with men's consctences, which is God's seat, to sit and rule there, wherein they show what they be, yet neither our 〈◊〉 ; nor other civil Princes, usurp so much over God's right, that is proper to Antichrist, and your faction.

Concerning the first Article, your corruption, and false collection therein are so shameless, that they may be easily espied. I wish the reader to have but recourse to the place ye quote, to find out your treachery or false allegatiō in perverting the authors words and sense to be able to answer the same. Excellently well doth M. Calvin in that place, defining and treating of conscience, reconcile these two pointes togethcr. First, that men's consciences, for their spiritual government, are above men's reaches reserved only to God, which also in time of ignorance (as y ^e said M. Calvin, saith) was seen and observed by your Popish writers, though practice were to the contrary, as may name lie be seen in your Saint Thomas. Next that, we must be subject to our civil Magistrates, and that for conscience sake, according to the doctrine of the Apostle, not so much respecting the things commanded or forbidden by them, which of them selves touche not conscience: as the general ende and commandment of the eternal God, that hath appointed this order, and willed us by his commandment to be subject to authority. And this is it, the Apostle tendeth to, in his epistle to the Romans: so as leaving your caueling in words and syllables, if you could and would distinguish between the civil Courte, and the court of conscience, and between general and particular, as M. Calvin speaketh; All scrupule avoided, this matter might be eased, and better matter gathered from this godly writer: then you, too 〈◊〉 pretend to be there. The book being both in English and in Latin, let the reder judge of the whole, you M. Howlet, and your fellows shall never be able to stain M. Calvin and his doctrine, nor clear yourselves from malice &c. while you live, if you deal plainly. Set us down the book, Chapter, Section and Calvin's words: for we have no cause other wise to trust you, as you do your fellows.

The second place or article that ye take out of Calvin is so plain & true, as I marvel what ye meant to charge him therewith, for speaking of Christian liberty, he saith: That the consciences of the faithful are exempted from the power of all men, by reason of the liberty given thē by Christ, so as they are not to be entangled in the snares of constitutions, in those things wherein the Lord would have them free: But add I pray you, as he doth there, That as the matter is very worthy and meet to be known, so needeth it a large and plain declaration by reason of the ado, that partly seditious persons, partly quarrel pickers make, as though all obedience of men, which is not meant, were thereby also taken away and overthrown. To prevent this inconvenience, doth master Calvin there a large entreat of Christian liberty, & the consciences of the faithful, as he doth in the other place of master Calvin cited by you before, and by this your misdealing, do we see how necessary it was, often and much to beat in that point. In sum, we say: spiritual liberty in Christ, and Politike subjection to Magistrates and Supertours, may and do very well agree, and both are taught us in the Scriptures, and have their place of practice.

From slandering of these men that are dead, cometh M. Howlet to those that are alive. Whose names he quoteth down in his margin, mentioning a writing made in the days of Queen Marie, which he doth but touche, and I think needless to stay thereon, considering the thing being aforetime obtected by M. Harding, hath been fully answered unto by y ^e reverend father of blessed memory. Master Jewel late Bishop of Sarisburie, as is that of master Luther before: I perceive that M. Howlet. goeth all by report and hear say, and seeketh to win. grace by 〈◊〉 other. And where wisemen are wont diligently, to respect circumstances in all doings, he, such is his humor throughout his Epistle, careth neither what, when, nor in whom he reprove, so he may find somewhat to carpe at, in any professors of the Gospel. I would M. Howlet. for his own sake were but so faithful a servant of God and her Majesty, and did but half so uprightly walk in his calling, in zealously advancing the Gospel of Christ, and dutifully obeying our Sovereign, as the men he nameth, to their great commendation, in singular modesty, and upright conscience at this day travel to do, with no small fruit to the Church and people of God among us, howe ever he object old matters to so worthy fathers, M. howlets conclusion of this part, of charging master Wycliffe, mastar Luther, master Calvin, and the rest is, that the Catholic Church utterly condemneth all these errors, and teacheth her children otherwise and the contrary. Now I ask M. Howlet if he exempt not the consciences of y ^t faithful from Princes laws, and the power of all men with master Luther, & master Calvin, how it cometh to pass, that he and his fellows exempt themselves from her Majesty's obedience under pretence only of conscience, as even in the leaf before this we have in hand, in the name of y ^t 〈◊〉 he craveth pardon at her Majesty's hands, for not yielding to such conformity in matters of religion as is demanded at their hands, which they cannot do but by offense of their consciences, &c. And the end of all in him & his author is, y ^t her Majesty must take their disobedience & refusal of conformity for a full satisfaction: because they allege conscience. Now if this among other be an error condemned by the Catholic Church: that the consciences of y ^t faithful be exempted from the power of all men, &c. Why do you being Catholics, as ye say, follow it; Why do you make that your pretence; Why do you dwell therein; If Princes laws bind subjects to obedience in conscience, so as they may not be exempted for their consciences: but y ^t they must obey them, as God himself, whose room they possess, and that under pain of mortal sin and eternal damnation, how hardly soever their Princes deal with thē in their government, &c. Why learn you not that lesson; Why reform you not your consciences by God's word, that God and her Majesty may have due obedience of her Subjects: which she requireth and no more without complaining, murmuring, & this bitter accusing: ye tell her Majesty of errors, & yourselves run into thē headlong; Ye will by no means with Luther have Christians free & exempted from Princes laws; no not in their conseiences, and yet by means of conscience you will exempt yourselves, what should I say: like not that in yourselves, ye condemn in other. The difference (gentle Reader) between us and them is, as thou mayest perceive, that we exempt men's consciences from all mortal men to give them to God above alone, to be guided by his holy word & no other wise, which in deed her majesty alloweth well of, slander these fellows what they can herein, for her title of supreme governor over her subjects. They without any warrant of God's word exempt, not conscience, but pretended, or that they call conscience, from dutifulnes to God and their lawful Prince and Sovereign in God, to give it to the Pope, induced thereto, because they see her Majesty to leave men's consciences free & untouched, having a tender care & great respect thereof. Where conscience is in deed, though it be but weak, according to the doctrine of y ^t Scriptures & Gospel where she learned this: & not frō popery & Pope, to whose supreme authority grounded upon suppositiōs & false principles, these coūterfeited Catholics have by reconcilement and oth betaken thenselves according to their rottē religion, so defrauding God & her Majesty of their due, abusing their Sovereign authority, & themselves greatly. After this cometh M. Howlet to note our demeanour, & here passing other, as he saith, he setteth us down at large a matter done the last Summer at Stamforde, and dwelling therein, he reproveth both the doctrine of certain Preachers there, and their demeanour also, whereof he maketh no small a do, seditious, pretendeth he, was the doctrine there taught, seditious was the usage, and yet, I trow, nothing like to that of theirs in the North, in Ireland, nor that which I have described before. It is happy, God made not him the Prince of this lande, nor any of the State, otherwise I perceive the poor men had been trounced: he giveth sentence as though the matter were his own, when nothing was there done against him, and as for her Majesty and the State, they call not for his help in the government here. But I see M. Howlet is still like himself, that is past shame, else would he have blushed to have spoken so untruly of a matter so lately done and so publicly in the face of all the world: but let us see what he saith: first he entereth into this matter, to quitte, as he speaketh, the Puritan that hath so infamed the Catholics. Therefore he thinketh good to defame him again. He hath slandered you M. Howlet, with a matter in truth, as we have seen: And you cannot forget an injury, if it were one, ye must needs be quite with the Puritan. Alas poor Puritan: but it is happy your hands be bound that ye can do him no more harm, have you not poured out your spite enough against him, before to be quitte with him. You play as the Dog doth: that when a stone is flung at him, runneth after the stone, and for revenge, catcheth the same in his mouth. When ye can find no more matter in the man to rail upon, you immagine he sendeth out Preachers, ye call them at Stamforde his Preachers. Preachers at this day, the more is the pity, are with you, and to many such, Praeda Mysorum, it is your own Proverb taken out of Aristotle's Rethoricke and Rethorically amplified and handled, speaking against this man that ye will now needs quite, but this man that you revenge yourself upon: First telleth you those Preachers you talk of were none of his, he sendeth out none. Next, that he is not bound to answer for them, though in so 〈◊〉 a cause, that be not hard to be done. This might M. Howlet easily think, considering that evil will is not given to say well; That her Majesty, and all other that should read that he setteth forth in printe, would hardly believe amongst so many untruths, this report of his proceeding from such a revenging stomach as seeketh thereby to quite his enemy, which doctrine he taketh out of Philosophy, and from his Master Aristotle's Rethoricke, rather then from good divinity and the Scriptures; yet it may agree with his Catholic religion, well enough. Again, he might think the ground and truth of the matter would be looked into, which is not hard here to be done.

Next, he alledgeth a Minister to be his Author in the report of this matter: but that is for his vantage, he nameth him not, neither think I, he can name any such, he were too notorious an hypocrite and false brother, so lewdly to belie and betray his brethren. Nevertheless that is possible: for among Christ's Apostles, there was a Judas. This dealing might have much impaired his credit with you, saving that you lie in awaite to trappe the innocent, with all godly and honest men that list to understand hereof, if there were any such man. Whereof give us leave to doubt, till we hear more, he will be abhorde for his double dealing, & you for your impudent reporting of so manifest a sclander. Did the Minister tell you the matter himself; Or did some other that heard it of him, or somebody else, tell it you from him; You were not, we must suppose, at the exercise yourself. Take heed of too light crediting reports M. Howlet and especially of reporting them again, and that to her Majesty, and of putting them 〈◊〉 in print too the view of the world, that is your foundation and entry. Proceeding, ye object disobedience to the Preachers that would not obey the Bishops letters prohibiting the fast at Stamforde. There are but too many such as you be, that by sinister informations and sclaunders, go about to hinder godly and holy attempts, fishing out something whereby to stay y ^t same, by all means they can: But God be praised such false and light reports, such naughty dealings, have turned and do commonly turn to the beginners shames, and to God's glory the more, and his people's good and comfort, as in deed this did: for though this godly exercise were a time stayed, by misreportes, yet at length was it taken in hand, with the good countenance and liking of authority, whereof you and such might learn, to give over such rusty cankered practices, and to take a new and better course; if ye had any grace.

It fareth nowadays (gentle Reader) in the building of God's spiritual house and City, which is his Church here upon earth even as it did in old time (which conformity and likelihood may serve greatly to our instruction, admonition and comfort) when at God's appointment, the house and temple of God, and the City Jerusalem were to be reedified, God stirring up for that purpose King Cyrus, and Darius, & preparing the hearts of other of his people to further and advance that work, as we may see in the holy stories of Ezra, and Nehemiah, the thing 〈◊〉 well begun, was greatly hindered, sometime by colorable undermining after a politik manner, & by false accusation, making complaint evē to the king, sometime by conspiracy & open force & violence; yet notwithstanding (all preparations and subtle devises coming to naught) the work, though with much a do, by gods meruellous providence; went lustily & luckely forward, and was at y ^e last happily finished. There was on the one & better side, though lesser & weaker in the sight of man Zerubbabell, Ieshua, Ezra, Nehemiah, y ^t prophets, Haggai, & Zechariah &c. as chiefmen among the people of God w ^t their band & company. There were on y ^t other side. Rheū, Shimshai, Tatnay, Sanballat, Tobiah, Geshem, & their cōpaniōs in Samaria, & the people beyond the river mighty & envious Cheeneth, Arabians, Ammonites, Ashdodims, & other, w ^t Shemaiah, Noadiah. &c. false Prophets, hirelings, and hypocrites, many & great ones. The kings, with whom both parties had to deal, being Heathen men, were sometime, no marvel, against the matter, especially being stirred up by the malice of the adversaries to this building, & their often and many complaints, handled with great cunning & policy, which more troubled and hurt the servants of God, and hindered their godly proceeding, as hypocrites always do, than any open violence: but which was to be marvelled at, even those Heathen kings were sometime favorable, forward, and with the matter, God's providence and blessing so ordering the whole work till it were achieved, as namely we see under the good kings Cyrus and Darius. Now to leave the state of the Church in other Realms, by God's marvelous goodness, we have at this day raised up unto us for one & a principal parte not a heathen king, or a Cyrus, & Darius: To favor & set forward y ^t building of gods house among us: but a Christian Sovereign & Prince, herself professing y ^t Gospel of Christ Jesus, who doth not stand by & look on y ^t builders: but bending her royal authority and wisdom to y ^t defense & maintenance of y ^e truth, & repressing of error & falsehood; so moderateth the whole, that she greatly encourageth all gods people her obedient subjects, & terrifieth the adversaries: her majesties Counsellers, the Nobility, the spiritual Pastors, & the other officers & Ministers of y ^t laws are likewise professors & setters forward of this business in their degree & calling, to the great comfort of the common people, & those of the lower sort: whereupon the adversaries, how many and how mighty soever they be, may be the less able to do hurt. Yet to waken us, & to keep us frō security; we shall not lack (neither have we to marvel thereat, or be discouraged) enemies as long saith M. Howlet, as there is either head or hand remaining loose in the world. We shall not lack hypocrites, false accusers, conspirers, violent dealers, seditious persons, &c. we shall not lack stinging Hornets, like the Horonites, Ammonites & Arabians, we shall not lack a Rehum, a Shimshai, a Tatnai, a Tobiah, a Schemaiah, &c. that in a rout will undermine, and oppose themselves to the Gospel: But, God be thanked, we need little fear them, having that mighty God, so mightily standing on our side, and blessing us with such a Sovereign, and state as he doth. Wherefore; let us now M. Howlet be bold to unfold and lay abroad your false accusations and slanders and to answer the same.

Ye say, that the Preachers would not obey the prohibition but stepped up into the Pulpit, &c. As though they ran before they were called. First, I answer, that both the first and seconde Preacher whom ye charge, were by public authority licenced, both were by the Magistrates and Assistants of y ^e town requested thither, both their doctrines and usages, in that solemn and notable assembly are not on lie cleared from your uncharitable slanders M. Howlet, but very well reported of by those of honorable and worshipful calling that were present, and have given testimony thereof under their hands to be seen of any that list. It is supposed by some M. Howlet, that if you be not a husband man's son of y ^t quarters, Ye are some night bird, whose hauntes may possibly be spied out, they were best look to it in whose barns or out houses ye lodge, if ye chance to be spied, men love an Owl so ill, I will say no more, you wote what befell one of your ancestors at Rome aforetime? This (being in those quarters) is likely enough to be your grief, to see or hear, that this assembly was so assisted, and things therein so well performed: but you fret & are angry without cause, it quites your Puritan never awhit, it slanders Stamford, the assembly, & those that had dealing therein, &c. You take the report of the matter, as you would have us believe at least, at one man's hands, a minister present there. I, as you see oppose to this vain report, for the truth of y ^e matter, many to one, & that those of calling, honorable, & worshipful, magistrates, & other in the town & abroad, besides diverse godly, & learned ministers & Preachers whose hands and marks I have seen, which carry great credit, & have talked with diverse therein, to the reproving of that you so rashly affirm, & falsely, & slanderously here inform her. Majesty of, & to the testifiyng of the contrary, & the just commendation both of the exercise, and the godly Preachers every way: who there present writing diligently took the notes, & are ready to avow the same, vpō oth if need be, to your discredit and shame. The credit of these mē, as those that had cause, best to understand of the whole matter, will weigh down the single credit of the single sowld Minister you talk of, without any indifferent men, to show that the eight articles set down by you are not true, but most falsely and maliciously devised by yourself, or by some other enemy no better then yourself, and that the doctrine & other usage at that exercise was godly and comfortable. In the mean while it is neither new, nor to be wondered at, that Preachers & professors of God's truth be evil spoken of for well doing, it is the reward our Master had when he was here, it is y ^t he hath willed us to look for. For the dealing in that godly exercise of preaching, praying, & fasting joined with alms, authority, & proceeding, The Alderman & Cōburgesses were peticioners therein, both for allowance at the Bishop of Lincolns hand, and also for assistance of preachers as their letters therein declare, to their great commendation, for their Godly forwardness in so good a matter, being the chief of that corporation, wherein they stayed and forbare, till they had both allowaunce and direction also for the form and order of proceeding, set them down in writing particularly, as the said Bishop of Lincolns letters of the fifth of August, in answer to the letters of the Town of Stamforde of the xxx. of July before, do declare: But he and his letters will carry no credit with you, and yet in this matter, being by you alleged, must and justly doth, and ought to do: Besides this they had the good and favorable allowance of one, not of the meanest of the Lord's of her majesties honorable privy Counsel, to whom under her Majesty, y ^t Borough appertaineth, as three of his honorable letters of the xxv. of July to the Bishop of Linclone, the Alderman, and Burgesses of Stamforde, and to one of the preachers, that you here charge, do v̄ear witness: that I speak nothing of the public order set down by authority, to move us all generally to repentance, joined with fasting, prayer, and relieving of the poor The Camets & strange sights that were seen in the heauenes, the Earthquakes here beneath among us, the disturbances and disquietness of neighbors round about this Realm, the monstrous and unnatural dealings of those of your side with her Majesty, and this peaceable State, the great miseries of God his faithful congregation and people almost everywhere, and the like miseries: whereby God as it were shaketh his rod over men's heads, seemed sufficient occasions to her 〈◊〉 , the grave, wise, and godly here; to cal to these extraordinary exercises of fasting, prayer, &c. the practice whereof also was seen in diverse places of this Realm, and namely in the Diocese of Lincoln to give example, and stir up the godly mind of them of Stamforde, which example they very well followed and performed the like, the fourteenth of September last, highly to God's glory, their due praise, & the joy and comfort of y ^e godly, that were present, & such as hear of the same abroad. This that had such approbation, and proceeding with consent of all, to whom the same under God and her Majesty, doth any way appertain, cannot justly be charged by you: Turning therefore your standerous report for the doctrine in your eight propositions set down, and for other behavior, home unto you again where it was first bred, as utterly false, and not to be found either in preachers or people at the public fast at Stamforde, I have set down the truth of the whole.

But what sir, if all these circumstances had not been precisely kept, no contempt towards superior authority being, the godliness and reverence of the matter of it self, would sufficiently have excused and commended it in these days of the profession of the Gospel under so godly and virtuous a Prince, and other Magistrates. The more godly the exercise was, the more it seemeth to offend you: the more it misliketh you, the better is it to be esteemed of the godly; rail, revile, and fret, till your heart ache, yet shall this godly order of public and extraordinary fasting, upon occasion incident joined with preaching, meditation, prayers, and charitable relief of the poor and miserable, practiced & used in this Church, & recommended by her Majesty, and other of the State long ago in the great plague here, and since, and yet still in these days, as very necessary: this I say, is so far of from disorderly, or seditious dealing, as it shall never be justly found fault with by you, grounded sufficiently upon God's book, and better ten thousand times (if such comparison may be) than either your blasphemous precessions, your running to Church to toll a bell, your casting of conjured water, &c. to fray away spirits, or than your Popish fast, consisting in superstitious choice of meats and days, joined with hypocrisy, opinion of merit, &c. It is happy ye can find out fasting at the length in the Gospelling Churchs, among those that ye call Protestants, you might have done it sooner if it had pleased you. You were wont to say: we quite overthrow all fasting and prayer, because we went about to correct and take away the abuses that Popery had brought into both: even as we see our Master Christ in his time to have done the like. And here you say there hath been continual railing against fasting for these xxi. years paste. Untrueth still: It hath been but against your superstition and abuse, which we take not, I tell you still to be Gospel, we have commended, and recommended always in place, true fasting, we have practiced, and used the same according to the pure use delivered us in the Scriptures, and of late, more upon occasions then aforetime and more generally with doctrine adjoined, from which doing your corruptions, wherewith you had filled y ^e Church a long time, held us: but we hope well, it shall daily more and more be purged, and such dust swept away out of God's house here, and both this and other godly orders also grow from good to better, among the faithful people of this English Church, with the furtherance, good liking, and delight of her Majesty, our Sovereign, we doubt not in beholding her people and subjects, to profit daily in all godliness, howe ever you 〈◊〉 and repine thereat: Here ye call this godly exercise a little fantastical rage of fasting, &c. You rave and rage too. But whereunto shall we liken this generation, but with our savior Christ to little children sitting in the marketts, &c. For as John came neither eating nor drinking & they said, he had a devil: and the son of man came eating and drinking, and they say de: Behold a glutton, and drinker of wine, a friend unto Publican's and Sinners. Even so do our Pharisaical Papists deal, and say now: No way can please and content them, neither using the liberty of God's good creatures, sanctified by the word of God, and prayer, as y ^e Apostle speaketh, neither yet abstaining therefrom. But we answer with our good Master and Savior, wisdom is justified of all her children.

Ye talk at pleasure of speaking ten or twelve hours together, with all a lie a: Although the corruptions that your Popish and Pharisaical leaven hath many years infected fasting withal, sticking fast, require sometimes to purge the same before it can be well and profitably taken in hand: And again, the right use and ende thereof, and of prayer, humility, faith, repentance, newenesse of life, liberality also to the poor &c. to be treated of, ask time, that this Christian exercise of fasting may be Christianly kept: among the ruder sort especially, yet M. Howlet, neither be so many hours prescribed, the preacher to talk, neither know or heard I it ever, anywhere so used. For time sir herein, we use it and leave it as an indifferent thing, to take more or less, according as occasion and necessity of matter require, and in this and like circumstances say, as our 〈◊〉 Christ said of the Sabbath in his time, the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. Let time serve us, and we in time, and therewith, serve God. Both the Sermons at Stamford, forenoon & afternoon too, mounted not much above half the time of the least of your two numbers: but I will leave this matter, and the quiting of your Puritan, because I understand ye hear thereof another way.

After this, you tell her Majesty, of a weighty motive, so you set it down in your margin. The effect you note a little before, when you make Catholics so important a stay in every of her Majesty's countries: As though the safety and quietness of the whole realm rested on you Catholics, that refuse to come to Church here, to renounce the Pope, and betake yourselves as true English men to God and her Majesty's government, &c. Of which number you take yourself. M Howlet, to be one. Though you for your part should seem to be better acquainted with the barn, and the rude husbandmans cotage in the country, where your neste may also be found, then with any good Town or City, much less with a Princes Palace, whereby you should be meet to stay up her Majesty, and this common wealth with your shoulders: But are you or your fellow Catholics, the safety of this whole Realm? God forbid man, yet these are those that are here so commended, these are those y ^e whole suite is for, that it would please her Majesty to grant that which it seemeth they will have whether she will or no: Obstinating themselves, and cloking all under unconscionable conscience before they make her highness priute of their suite and dealing. A worthy manner of suing, to abase & bring her Majesty to their bend, that they may altogether 〈◊〉 the roste here. Because your framed consciences, be some what too weak reasons, to move her Majesty withal alone. You bring forth your weighty motive, where although at the first ye speak of mercy and favor, yet so soon as ye seem to have given some sope of milk, by & by, ye throw y ^e whole down again w ^t your heel. For ye have no sooner spoken of mercy and favor, but straightway with a commemoration, as it were an upbraiding, &c. ye fall a claiming the thing ye would have, in recompense of your service. I greatly marvel not to see you deal thus with her Majesty here upon earth, as though ye deserved, that can challenge merits at God's hands in heaven: but say and think what ye will for that: Grace and merits cannot stand together. Her Majesty of her self, belike; cannot conceive, nor see what you and your fellows have deserved and deserve at her highness hands: Ye are little beholding to your neighbors, that need thus to praise say, and speak for yourselves. If you have done nothing but your bounden duties, nor in deed half that neither, as better subjects and more dutiful do, unfeignedly acknowledge from the heart, and needs must in respect of her Majesty, and the manifold and great benefits that we all daily receive from and by her Majesty's means (whom God long preserve among us); why then claim you recompense for your service? What is it I pray you, you have done;

First, forsooth you, (you know what catholiks you mean) were most ready at the beginning, to place her Highnes in her Royal Throne. I leave to speak of her Majesty's disfauour, procured by you hot Catholics in Queen Mary's days, of the straightness, and hard usage that her Majesty found, among your Jailors her highness keepers then. We, to our inestimable joy and comfort, know by whose power and providence alone, her Majesty was delivered out of the Lions mouth, & placed in her Royal seat too well to ascribe y ^t praise unto you hot Catholics; Were you most ready to place her highness in that royal room, wherein now by the favor of God she standeth? Indeed by the favor of God, y ^t ye say well & truly, more than by your willes and help, else were it hard with us all. You were so great helps at y ^t beginning y ^t not being able to keep in any longer the cankered poysō lurkinge in the heart, but opening y ^t hid̄ malice, evē (in honorable and open meetinge, after her Majesty was placed in her royal Throne, when the barbarous cruelty towards her Majesty and other, used in the former days was objected) one amongst other answered in y ^e name of y ^e rest: that there was no other fault but that leaving the root standing, the branches only were hakt of, whē rather the mightiest tares (so it pleased a champiō of yours to speak, of y ^e professiō & some professors of the Gospel) should have been pulled up by the roots, which if it had been done, we should not now see so many and so great wicked stocks (said this stout Catholic) remain everywhere and flourishe. This was it that happelye grieved you, that by your wicked and traiterous dealing, her Majesty was not before that time made away: But if her Majesty, & we all, were so beholding unto you for this service, why did not you and your fellows make this suit, when the matter was fresh in memory, the thing was not then ripe, have you now first gotten heart of grace. It is but of late M. Howlet, that most of you have pulled your necks out of the collar of obedience to God and her majesty, and therefore the recompense of that service that ye brag of, if there were any such, longeth little to you young men Jesuits, and other late Byrdes of Rome: that which followeth perhaps, you will say doth: for ye reckon not up only what ye have done, which in truth ye never did, but what proper men ye presentlye be and will be; to spend the uttermost drop of your blood to defend her Majesty in all safety, peace & quietness to the ende, if it like her Highness to believe pour tale, or trust to the broken reed of your defense, Your dealings heretofore, in both her Majesty's Realms of England and Ireland, to leave old practices, and to remember but her days; confirm this promise of yours. The stirs ye now afreshe go about to make, continuing the old rebellions till ye may join them to new, utter your good meaning hearts, remember whence you come? frō whom? and in whose name? This service to her Majesty, and the State, had need be recompensed, it were pity else. I think certainly your affections at the beginning towards her Majesty were even such as ye now show them, and will hereafter to the ende approve them, while her Majesty liveth. Can the black Moore change his skin or hue, or the Leoparde his spots. Then may ye also do good that are accustomed to evil. Your great fathers stomachs in the beginning, were to high, to become Petitioners; popish Prelates could not, or would not submit them selves to her highness. One White, in his rochet, after Queen Mary's death at Paul's cross, speaking of alteration of religion from Popery to the Gospel &c. openly said: It cannot be, it may not be, it shall not be; ye hold one course, ye are I perceive no changelings.

But there is, sir, an odds between doing a thing in deed, and pretending to do a thing, between doing of conscience, affection, duty, & love, heartily; and between rhetorically doing, (that I may so speak) that is: Italian and Romanlike, with color and great cunuing, or if you will, 〈◊〉 of our English men's doing now, that come thence: if her Majesty therefore spy your drift, and reward you with forty stripes, as the frenche king once did, (in not much an unlike case) a dissembler, for pretending in hope of reward, (with terms and 〈◊〉 of great reverence) to take a 〈◊〉 from him, after another 〈◊〉 of his had received reward, for a very like service and office done to the king his M. before: Are ye not well enough served: Or at least, if her Majesty, comparing you with other, consider her faithful subjects in deed, which ask nothing, nor brage of their service, but acknowledge they have received more then they have deserved, and desire nothing more, then that they may in all thankful duty, answer their Sovereigns bounty towards them, as the Chancellor, to the said French king sometime did, standing amongst such gaping and ravening Crowes, Cormorantes, or Owls, call thē what ye will. As you in words set out your 〈◊〉 birds here to be, if I say she shall in the end reward those good Subiectes, as King Louis did his Chancellor, and send you empty away that gape so fast afterward & answer you: that you must wait for another occasiō as y ^t King did, &c. What have you to plain of; It is said that y ^t king toke a delight to mock the gaping byrde, were it Crow or Daw. Is this your weighty motive, ye so gloss in the margin of your book; If your Author have no better in store to come hereafter, as in this your treatise promised shall come, both he & you may put up your pypes for ought I see.

But ye run back to your starting hole, and allege conscience, this is a poor help. And yet this must be a satisfaction for all if the rest fail: howe hollowe soever your consciences be, if there remain any at all, the bare name of conscience, must be your defense, whē you have nothing else to say. Here make ye now a Rampeere. Conscience, you say, dependeth of judgment, and understanding & not of affect and will. It cannot be framed at pleasure, nor consequently reduced to such conformity, as is prescribed by Superiors. Conscience, no doubt, where it is in deed, and not in fancy and words pretended only, is a great matter, and would by any means be respected and tendered of all. And so doth her Majesty here, God be praised, why did ye not here M. Howlet set down the ground of your understanding & judgment, or forbear this brag of conscience, till we had seen & examined the ground thereof, y ^t which, w ^t out all proof, ye here bring forth in words only, that do we return unto you again, as a thing unproved, & therefore reproueable, to wit, y ^t the persuasiō you are entered into, of not coming to the Church among us at this day and refusing the oth of allegiance to her Majesty; is not only not grounded on the scriptures, but is contrary thereunto, and thereupon dependeth altogether of affect and will & not of judgment and understanding; is framed at your pleasures, without good warrant or ground, and so may be reduced to conformity prescribed by superiors. Your own S. Thomas in his sum saith, Q. 79. art 13. that conscience is no special faculty or power of the soul, because it may be laid away, which the other cannot: but be that as it will be: A corrupt conscience such as yours is, may and ought to be laid away. The reasons in your treatise as in place we find, deal little or nothing to prove the contrary to this I tell you or deal (as you do) very hollowly, being grounded altogether upon supposition, which not grounded on God's truth in matters of Religion, is a rotten post, for conscience, to lean upon. Trye your consciences in religion by right judgment and good understanding, taken out of God's book: run not upon false suppositions, and we shall be soon at an ende. I still marvel M. Howlet how you can exempt your consciences from 〈◊〉 , and so from her 〈◊〉 , that before condemned these sentences as errors That the consciences of the faithful are exempted from the power of all men, that Chistians are free and exempted from all Princes laws, as touching their consciences, &c. For you admit this exposition of the former sentence, in saying: that Calvin and Luther, hold therein one doctrine, whereof I have spokē in his place. The matter is, that your Secondary faith, and allegiance sworn unto her Highness, as to the sub stitute of God (thus ye speak) is at the Popes pleasure broken, and now discharged of that faith by his warrant, and the same bestowed upon him, and such as he will appoint without good warrant from God or her Majesty. In the mean while we will take, as granted by you this Maxim, or supposition: That conscience dependeth of judgment & understanding, and not of affect & will, albeit in your case this wholly raignethin you, & therefore seemeth not be conscience.

But because pretended conscience is the ground of these men's whole matter and the only shift of excuse that both M Howlet and his author have to cloke their disobedience, withal, let me be bold with thee gentle Reader somewhat at large to unfold some parte of their Popish 〈◊〉 in this case of conscience, which that I may the better do, I will first set down some of both their words agreeing in this point together. Then examining in general the popish doctrine whereon they ground themselves without all Scripture, yea contrary to Scripture, common reason, and hon estie also, as the same is delivered unto us in their books, by the principal 〈◊〉 of their religion, I will show howe godlesly and howe hollowly they may be found to speak, write, and think in the whole: enough in my opinion, to bring their religion into utter 〈◊〉 detestation, and hatred: for broaching us such abhominable abominations. Afterwarde, God willing (returning to M. Howlets words again, and comparing them with the doctrine of the Scripture) will I, so much as I shall think needful answer the same particularly. Thus writeth M. Howlet of this matter here at large.

HEnce ye gather y ^t because ye allege your conscience, in this cause of yours. Therefore neither may ye do there against under pain of damnatiō, neither be enforced to do otherwise then you do under like pain to the enforcers, and because ye saw you should be excepted upon two ways, ye provide answer for the same first. If it be alleged against you, as is by us very truly alleged, that the thing ye are called unto is, godly, honest, and good, and seemly to be yielded unto, and therefore no reason you should in this case be left to your pretended conscience, to follow that which is evil, but that you should give over and take a new course: Ye affirm, howe good soever the action in it self be, whereunto ye are called, yet the yielding is damnable sin to the doer, because it seemeth naught in his judgment and conscience, and therefore to him it shall be so accounted at the last day. So he must be left to his pretended consicence in very bad things. Hereto ye bring (so had ye need, & yet all will not serve) the examples of all Princes and Potentates of the world before Christ and since, and of the very Turks themselves and other Infidels. To show that her Majesty, and the State deal more cruelly by Law here, with you then any other State, be they never so barbarous, do with their people, and that this will be damnable unto them. You are in great and high matters, you had need remember yourself, and you need to have been better acquainted with Kings and Princes, Estates & their affairs, then may be thought you be, or else have let this far fet stuff alone. This gear beseemeth you & your spirit well; M. Howlet, and that to & with her Majesty her self, doth it not; Next, if any testimonies and examples of practice be alleged against you of temporal punishment, you turn them all over, in saying such proceeding was against Heretics only, which make dissention in Christ his body. And although you prove not the Papists to be out of that number, but that they may justly be counted Heretics, as they be in deed, and therefore by your own doctrine of the Princes and States that justly so take them, to be recalled and enforced by temporal punishment, or restrained at the least, yet to help yourself as you may, as though popery were the true and right Christian religion, ye suppose that you have no whit swerved from the truth: but that we whom ye call Protestants, have gone from you & set up a new religion as though we, what should I say we; her Majesty & the state, professed or called you to any other than to Jesus Christ only true and most ancient religion, comprised and expressed in the holy scriptures; or from that. The end of all 〈◊〉 , y ^t you must still do as ye now do in abstaining from the Church assemblies, &c. And by no justice be enforced to the contrary. For that if your 〈◊〉 conscience be persuaded herein, ye may not do against that, though it be evil.

Now thus writeth M. Howlets author hereof in the latter ende of the nienth reason of his treatise: Neither sufficeth it to say: Those suppositions are false & that there are not such things committed against God at the Protestants Churches and services: for howsoever that be (whereof I dispute not now) yet I being in my heart of another religion, must needs think not only them but also all other religions whatsoever, to commit same, as I know they also think of mine. 〈◊〉 , how good and holy soever they were, yea if they were angels yet should I be condemned for going amongst them: for that in my sight, judgment, & conscience (by which only I must be judged) they must needs seem enemies to God being of the contrary religion. By this it may appear howe grievously they sin daily in England and cause other to sin with them, which compel men by terror to do acts of religion against their consciences. As to take oaths, receive Sacraments, go to Churches, & the like, which being done (as I have said), with repugnant consciences, is horrible mortal sin, as hath been already proved, and consequently damnable both to the doers and inforcers there of. And again, in the same ix. reason, speaking of the consciences of Infidels, and Heretics amongst many things, he thus writeth generally of all sortes of men. If there be no man either so foolish or impious in the world, but must needs think that one only religion amongst Christians is true, and all other false. And if every man which hath any religion and is resolved therein, must needs presuppose this only truth, to be in his own religion, then it followeth necessarily that he must likewise persuade him self that all other religions besides his own are false and erroneous, and consequently all assemblies, Conuenticles, and public Acts, of the same to be wicked, damnable, dishonorable to God, contumelious to Christ, and therefore to his conscience (which thinketh so) detestable. And in another place before, his reasons, agreeing yet more fully & plain lie with M. How let: Surely as I am now minded I would not for ten thousand worlds, compel a Jew to swear that there were a blessed Trinity: For albeit the thing be never so true, yet should he be damned for swearing against his conscience and for compelling him to commit so heinous and grievous a sin, &c.

I may here charge these men that they speak of conscience very doubtfully and diversely, yea wickedly and dangerously: in that they make no better distinction between truth and falsehood: good, and bad: a right and a wrong conscience, or erroneous, as these men speak: the resolution of God in men, for their doings, and men's false persuasions, reasons, and resolution, to common lower, & men's fancies and imaginations.

Conscience, as the very word importeth, is a knowledge in us with an addition, or to speak plainer if I can, it is an inward sense or feeling of god his judgment cōcurring w ^t our knowledge: Whereof ariseth this, the testimony of conscience, or our conscience bearing us witness, &c. Of which conscience, what force it hath, to take away all excuse from men, before God, the Apostle disputeth, Rom 2. If ye like not this, I say, ye shall find that some of your own writers take conscience doublie or two ways, sometime for that part or power of the mind that is always contrary to vice and evil, or always accompanying that parte, and then it is ever right. Sometime is conscience, taken for an applying of our knowledge to some action, and so is it not a quality but an action, And thus is it not always good or right say they. But for the purpose and matter we have in hand, and for our instruction and guiding, Besides that the very word and the Etymology or description thereof, teacheth us that conscience differeth from opinion, imagination, fancy, vain conceit, &c. As being a more high and heavenly gift especial when it is directed by God his holy word and Spirit. We have further to mark, the general doctrine of the holy Ghoste, set us down in the scriptures, in using to our benefit or abusing to our hurt, even God's good creatures, and the note he giveth of the force of conscience therein: unto the pure, all things are pure, but unto them that are defiled & unbelieving, is nothing pure: But even their minds and consciences are defiled, saith the Apostle, and in particular, he saith further. That in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, and shall give heed unto spirits of errors, and doctrines of diuelles, which speak lies through hypocrisy, and have their consciences burned with an hot iron, or be past feeling, as he saith elsewhere. And in another place yet: some having put away good conscience as concerning faith, have made Shipwracke. And yet further concerning naughty men, andtheir pretended naughty consciences, as they speak, not to be flattered or borne w ^t in dealing naughtily, the doctrine and practice of our Savior Christ, is notable for us to follow: as is expressed in the Evangelists. For our Savior Christ themaccuseth, and taketh up the Scribes and Pharisees very short, who would seem to make conscience of the traditions of the Elders, defendeth or excuseth his disciples in breaking thereof, and regardeth not the offense taken at his doctrine, and doing therein by the Pharisees, read the place, and mark the whole. Now for the Conscience of the faithful, we hold with the holy Ghost, that it is purged by the blood of Christ from dead works, to serve the living God: and the hearts are purified, by faith, &c. And that phrase of the holy Apostle, myconscience bearing me witness in the holy Ghost, and the like would diligently be observed of Christians, not to sever in them selves the testimony of conscience, from that heavenly testimonte of God's spirit, as in deed not a conscience, but a good conscience is required of us by God. Herevppon say I to these men, and to their like, and to all such evil consciences of Infidelles, and other, as they bring us in, that whereupon so ever they gounde their pretended Consciences and what course soever they be entered into: for religion and spiritual exercises in gods service, that as this doctrine of the scriptures is sound, true and safe so theirs is hollowe & untrue and the thing is not godly nor good. Great is the judgment of God among them that perish, because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved: Therefore to send them strong delusion that they should believe lies, that all they might be damned which believe not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Ye did run well, saith s. Paul to the Galat. who did let you that you did not obey the truth. It is not the persuasion of him that calleth you. A little leaven doth leaven the whole lump. I have trust in you through the Lord, that you will be none otherwise minded, but he that troubleth you shall bear his condemnation, whosoever he be, &c. I would to God the very first words of this Apostolic sentence might be verified in all that call themselves Roman Catholics, and continued still in us, and that with the Apostle in the last sentence we might trust well of them, as we are assured the middle part may too truly be applied unto M. howlets persuasion & such like.

Where they hold both (M. Howlet ) and his Author this general doctrine: howe good soever the action in it self be, or how true soever y ^t thing y ^t is affirmed be, as for example in case of religion, &c, that which is done affirmed by a Jew, an Infidel, or such like, yet if it be otherwise thought of in his sight, or if it be agaiust his understanding, judgment, and conscience, as they speak, the doer, affirmer, & inforcer thereto, shall be damned for committing a deadly, heinous, and grievous sin.` This as it is deducted seemeth to me a strang Paradox in divinity, grounded (gentle Reader) possible on some man's devilish wisdom, & reason: but surely upon a very false and dangerous Catholic principle of Popery, & savoring altogether of y ^e stinking puddle of that devilish religion, yea of the Devil of Hel himself the father and author of that religion, which thus I represent unto thee out of the writings of the greatest doctors of that side: And yet saving that they have opened this filthy cave, or stirred the 〈◊〉 , for the devilish wickedness & filthiness thereof, would I have spared thy Christian ears: but that necessity and the indignity of the matter, to utter their shame and villainy wherewith they stain both heaven & earth, enforceth, seeing the matter is thus far brought, to speak thereof,

There be two cases of conscience, or conclusions of their Popish writers: the one of an erroneous or naughty conscience, and the bond thereof: the other of perplexity, whereinto men as into a straight are driven by this doctrine and religiō, whilst of necessity they must do evil & cannot choose: whereupon (M. Howlet and his Author ground their Paradox, or strange opinion, of which the one dependeth on the other. And both upon that sentence of Gratian in his golden decree: All that is done against conscience buildeth to hell fire: which being well expounded, might stand though: but by the Popish doctrine, for some to abstain from evil be it never so villanous, to do good be it never so precious, is or may be against conscience, in them or against their erroneous & lying conscience, this position is theirs and utterly false.

Therefore for some say they to abstain from evil be it never so villanous, to do good, be it never so precious buildeth to hell fire. Again the law of nature may be dispensed with (if two evils so press as of necessity y ^t one must be chosen:) for such cases their perplexity maketh, &c. Popery can entangle and snare men's consciences, it can trouble, disquiet, yea provide a slaughter house for them, relieve and quiet them it cannot. Though it be not so hard to enter this perplexed Labyrinth or Maze, as to get out of it again when one is once entered, so deep are the quiddities I tell you, and the questions greatly doubtful, the examples also many and strange, that in this case are brought to hold men occupied with all, yet get out or help other therein as I may, by God's goodness, I will enter by the Angelical doctor D. Thomas, whose doctrine and Commentaries have the allowance of the highest and greatest of that side, as a truth falling from heaven, confirmed also by heavenly visions, as approved above; Upon the Epistle to the Romans, and the fourteenth Chapter, which place (M. Howlet, ) and his fellow would seem to ground upon, and to whose writings herein we are sent, the willinglier do I propound him, thus writeth, D. Thomas, under questions propounding after his manner, his subtle doctrine by objecting, answering, and resolving: It may be doubted (saith he) whether if a man have an erroneous or naughty conscience that he believe that y ^t which is mortal sin, is necessary to salvation, whether such a conscience bind him: So as if he do against the same, he commit damnable sin: He resolveth not only upon the Epistle to the Romans, but also in his Sum or common Places, and elsewhere: that an erroneous or lying conscience in things of themselves simply evil bindeth a man; so that he that doth against it highly displeaseth God, or as they speak, sinneth mortally or deadly, or to use our men's words: it is to the doer and enforcer, a damnable sin, or horrible mortal sin, & the one and the other shall be damned therefore. Herevpon riseth y ^t second doubt or question of perplexity in this case, whereinto men are brought of sinning damnably every way, in following their erroneous conscience, or in doing against the same, and by implication at length, the Magistrates and civil Authority, Kings and Princes themselves are wrapped in like perplexity and damnation, for dealing with such by enforcement to do against their wicked and devilish conscience.

These are the perplexed questions and resolutions in the case of conscience whereinto these profane questionists and schoolmen tumble such men's consciences as believe and follow them, without ever being hable well to help them out again. They make of the sacred scriptures. A tennis ball to toss, and to play withal, they greatly disgrace & obscure the same in troubling the pure fountains thereof: And having entangled, troubled, & snared men's consciences w ^t their quidities, by abusing gods gifts, they highly please and pleasure the Devil, and highlye displease and dishonor God's majesty, leaving a testimony and example to all posterity of God's heavy judgment, against all such as with unwashen hands (as they speak) that is unreverantly handle the holy word of the eternal God: But let us prosecute their question, & answer whether an erroneous conscience in things simply and of themselves evil do bind a man, so as if he do against the same he commit damnable sin: be it in commaundinge to do evil or forbidding to do good, all is one. D. Thomas his answer you hear, is always one and like him self affirmative and yea: The reaso why, is rendered in his sum: because will follow the direction of reason and understanding, or conscience, as he speaketh: for he maketh conscience the prescriptiō of reason, be it right or wrong, which reasō whē it doth err propoūdeath to the will good for bad, and bad for good, or telleth under a show that that which is good is naught, and that which is naught is good: & so will accepteth, alloweth, & followeth the same, and thereafter is the will good or bad: for the goodness & badness of the will dependeth on the object y ^t is on y ^t which is propounded unto it of reasō: whereupō he concludeth that we must say that every will is simplye or utterly evil always, which disagreeth from reason: be reason right, be it wrong, be that it propundeth true, be it false. And all this is grounded forsooth by D. Thomas upon Aristole, who saith that, simply to speak: he is incontinent that followeth not right reason: but accedentally or after a manner, he that followeth not false reason. Here is false and lying reason, under title of good & truth, prescribing evil and falsehood, and contrarilye under title of evil & falsehood forbidding good and truth: Here is will following false reasō accordingly in accepting or refusing that y ^t is thus offered. Here is lastly man himself bound under pain of damnation neither to will, nor to do against y ^t which is by this false reasō or conscience thus prescribed. What usually now followeth but execution, or action, & doing thereafter: we may here iustlier cry out I trow with the holy Ghost and God's word, than M. Howlet, and his Catholics do of his pretended Riot: woe be unto you that say, evil is good and good is evil: Woe be to that conscience, woe be unto that man that thus is guided, yea, that is bound under paineof damnatiō, not to do against the evil that false reason, propoundeth him under the show of good, but to reject that good, that it propoūdeath him under the show of evil: Or which is all one, not to leave in this case that which is evil, not to accept that which is good. Such blind leaders of the blind, must needs at the length fall both into the ditche.

But for better explanation of this whole matter, let us see some of their examples given us in this case, of an erroneous or lying conscience that bindeth. There want not I warrant you in these men's examples taken from men's doings, according to this erroneous conscience against both the Tables of God's commandments, the first, and the seconde. M. Howlet, and his fellow gave us two examples, against the first Table, of a Jew and an Infidel in denying the Trinity, & the Messias, or Savior of the world. Look upon their words afore set down, and there may you find the same: Add to them another example set down in their Popish decrees, in the margin in great letters, 〈◊〉 is called the marrowe of the gloss: The Jews had sinned mortally or deadly, if they had not crucified Christ, which riseth upon this question, whether the Jews were bound in conscience to crucify Christ, yea, or no; a deep and worthy question among these men. And because D. Thomas is so great a man in their books, to make even with them, join to this, one example more of him against the first Table in his Sum in the place before alleged. If to believe in Christ be propounded to a man as an evil thing by false reason, the man that will believe in Christ doth naughtily, or the will accepting to believe in Christ is naught, because the thing is evil in the apprehension of Reason, albeit simply and in deed it be good: clarkely resolved, and like an Angelical Doctor. Now if you will have a Corollarium, or a conclusion, for a Surplusage in this first Table: Take the questions, that upon this error of faith and conscience in matters of the first Table are moved, and determined in other subtle school writers, as namely this is one, in y ^e Master of the Sentences, and repeated in the golden decree, and allowed. If the devil transfiguring him self into an Angel of light be believed to be good, when he faigneth him self to be good, it is no dangerous error, and if the devil should then demand of some simple body: whether he would be partaker of his blessedness, and he should answer that he would pass into the devils fellowship whether should he being thus deceived, be said to have consented into the fellowship of devilish damnation, and not rather into the fellowship of eternal brightness: It is true, that this man sinneth not (saith the gloss) whereupon going yet further, it is demanded by Friar Holcot, whether one worshipping the devil transfigured into the shape of Christ, being deceived by inuinsible error or ignorance, as he speaketh, be excused from Idolatry; Answering, he saith: I said that not only he is excused from sin, but he meriteth as much as he should merit if he should worship Christ, if he did that lay in him to discern whether he were Christ or no; proof and reason why, one among the rest is, because the prescription of Conscience, when it is erroneous byndeth as much as when it is true. But John (under whose name this case is put) hath the prescriptiō of conscience though erroneous that that which appeareth unto him is to be worshipped as God: ergo, if he worship not, he sinneth mortally. In sum John's worshipping of the devil as God in this case: as not sinning in following his erroneous csōcience & sinning if he do not according to the same, is besides reasō warrāted of this man by y ^e M. of y ^e Sentences, by Austin & the common gloss. In the next article is demanded again by M Holcot whether any man may merit by a false faith; In this article he answereth and saith shortly that one may merit by a false faith in many cases. It is a common case among the people: he putteth many cases to prove his saying, and that some taken out of the Scripture, very clarkly you must suppose, among other he saith: Put case that some old wife hear her prelare (a great matter I tell you) preach some heretical article whereof she is not bound to have any faith perticularlye, I express his word as well and as plainly as I can: yet she for the obedience she beareth and good will to believe whatsoever the Church believeth, agreeth willingly to that he saith, (which is heresy) thinking that the Church believeth it, the case being thus, we must say, saith this Robert Holcot, that this old woman in believing heresy doth merit or do a meritorious work, as they speak in Schools, because she believeth an error which by no means can be imputed unto her, that that is to be believed which is condemned, and therefore by implication she believeth the contrary, because she believeth that this is the true faith: Nothing is true but that which the Church believeth to be true, And therefore because the implicate faith is true, although the explicate be not true whereunto she is not bound, but she is deceived by simplycitie, therefore is there no danger to her of error. Not much unlike to this, hath Peter Lumbarde the M. of y ^e Sentences a question & answer, which also is repeated with approbation by Gratian, which possible gave occasion to Holcot, to move and decide his. If an heretic (saith the M.) should under the name of Austin or Ambrose &c. offer himself to some Catholic, and call him to the following of his faith, if he should agree: into whose faith should he be said to have consented? Not into the Sect of her etikes, but into the sound uprightness of the Catholic faith, which the heretic lyingly said he had. Much more I trow if a Catholic prelate propound heresy. Here is heresy propounded by a Catholic teacher, and by an heretic, here is the same heard, received, believed, and consented unto, without danger, here is the party excused, nay defended to do well, and to merit, or to do a meritorious work. What can be said more in commendation of the best works that men can do, the best works that men do, come in deed short of this degree. In this diffuse and intricate disputatiō of Erroneous conscience, in matters of Faith, religiō, and doings of men, in the first table of God's commandments, moved and resolved by questions and answers hast thou, in these men, a view (gentle reader) of some of the deep mysteries of the popish religion, which, what sound matter of godly edification they contain, I refer to thy godly 〈◊〉 and judgment further to examine: and 〈◊〉 to examples in the Second Table, wherein their veastly 〈◊〉 in this case of erroneous conscience is yet better and more easily seen; in cloking, & excusing 〈◊〉 sin.

Let us take but the seventh commandment only: Thou shalt not commit adultery. To note howe the breach thereof, under y ^e pretence of error and conscience, is 〈◊〉 , which example is common, and cometh often with these virginlike Friers. Thus saith your Master: if a mā leaving in his country his wife, & going into a far country matrie another, & afterward repenting would leave her, affirming that he had another which is alive: and the Church suffer him not, being ignorant of that he affirmeth: Here is demanded whether in this seconde knot there be marriage; Surely it may be said; that it is not marriage, and that the woman is excused of crime by ignorance but that the man hath committed adultery: It is well, thus much is confessed, mark that well: But that, since the time, that being willing & not able to return to his first wife) he is compelled by the Discipline of the Church to retain and keep this seconde woman: he beginneth to be excused (mark this stuff) by obedience & fear, for this, that he, if this second woman require it, lie with her, of whom he never ought to demand the same: And so have we to judge of other like cases, thus far the Master. Here where the parties conscience moveth him to leave sin and evil and to do well, must he sin and do against his conscience being good; & ye see why & how, the authority of the Church, & the Popish discipline is great, I tell you, & in perplexity he may be dispensed withal. If his conscience be naught he may not do against it under pain of damnation. Again, here is whoredom confessed, and yet mark howe the party that committeth it, is excused. Thus is the man's conscience in perplexity for the sin of whoredom clarkly relieved in excusing his continuance therein. But the Master is some where holden, some where not of all, which though in this case, wherein I show what he holdeth it make no great matter, if some follow as hugo or who ye will; some follow not: yet 〈◊〉 will they 〈◊〉 swear for him in another place, wherein he is holden and followed: That a man lying with his wives 〈◊〉 by ignorance is excused, if she come to his bed at unawares, it is called the ignorance of the person, for he took her for his wife, and lay with her with an husbandly affection as with his wife. It is made Jacob's case with Lea forsooth &c. But with what conscience shall he be excused herein; with the very same I trow that the master, the Council, and the Cannon law, & pronounceth him to be excused, y ^t 〈◊〉 with a naughty and erroneous conscience, as they speak: For I am sure by a right conscience, he never shall be excused before God, from committing incest. The Similes that they go about to prove this matter by there, are even like stuff, and the same we have heard before. The gloss and the marrowe set down more: If a married wife be lain withal ignorantly, there is no whoredom committed. And again, whoredom is not committed without guile, &c, And yet a little before, If a woman's husband be dead, and she believe he be alive, if she marry she is guilty of whoordome though she have not committed whoredom, saith the gloss, such I tell you is the force of an erroneous and lying conscience upon this excuse of Whoredom, and the dentall y ^t it is any, is grounded on that which Gratian elsewhere telleth us: That if a blind man believing he lieth with his wife, defile another woman he is not guilty of whoredom, because blindness is like ignorance: but if casting a Darte, or shutting, he hap in play, &c. to kill any man, he is guilty (saith he) of murder. This is good Divinity among our English Roman Catholics at this day, as besides those that now write may be seen in M. Harding a Proctor even for the Stews, and a mainteiner and enlarger of that filthy common saying: If ye live not chastely. do it charily, which he ralleth good counsel, and pertaining to layefolke as well as to Clerks, Oh gentle companion. But to keep me to the Angelical Doctor Friar Thomas our men's great Author, Thus in this matter of an erroneous conscience not disagreeing from the rest writeth he in his sum, If reason or conscience err in this, that a man think some woman coming unto him in his bed, is his wife, and she demaundyng it, he will ye with her, his will is excused, and is not will, because this error proceedeth of a circumstance which excuseth and causeth the thing to be involuntary, In these examples; may a man lively behold, as in a 〈◊〉 , the foundation and ground of M. How lets doctrine, and his fellows in this matter of conscience, which is even by their doctrine, profession, and religion, to thrust forward their Catholics or Scholars and followers, for want of help, that way belike headlong into hell fire: I am weerie and ashamed of these beasts villainies, I will therefore conclude, and ende this devilish doctrine, for this point, where I began it with D. Thomas, upon that text of Scripture, that these men use to prove this matter by, even the +. to the Romans, that we may see their faithful and holy expositions, the abusing of the text it self, I examine in his place. For the Question and resolution of an erroneous conscience binding, let the reader remember what I have before set down out of D. Thomas. His examples 〈◊〉 be: If a man think he sin mortally, except he steal, or commit fornication, whether he may do against that he thinketh, or against this his erroneous conscience, (as he nameth it) without mortally sinning or no? He objecteth after his manner, first, the Law of GOD, which forbidding fornication and 〈◊〉 , bindeth strenglyer then conscience: next he 〈◊〉 perplexity in sinning every way, in committing fornication against God's law, and in not committing fornication against his conscience: But he resolveth generally even like him 〈◊〉 , as ye 〈◊〉 before, and for fornication particularly 〈◊〉 : If a man believe that not to commit fornication is mortal sin, or to abstain from that vice: whilst he choseth not to commit fornication, or to abstain from it, he choseth (they be his words) to sin mortally, or deadly, and so doth he sin mortally. And hereto maketh that ( 〈◊〉 he) which the Apostle here speaketh. 〈◊〉 lying spirit.

No we 〈◊〉 that which is objected to the contrary 〈◊〉 out of the law of God, he 〈◊〉 up the matter and cuttes it of very shortly thus: that hindereth not, that is first objected of the law of God, because there is one, and the same bond of a conscience, even erroneous, and of the law of God: for conscience doth not appoint anything to be done or avoided, but that it believeth, the same is the law of God: for the law is not applied to our doings, but by means of our conscience. And yet gentle D. Thomas, as little account as ye make of the law of God the authority thereof, and bond over men's consciences, here equalling the bond of a noughtie and lying conscience therewith: if it be the commandment of your Church, of Prelate, it bindeth, though conscience be to the contrary. Besides, if a Prelate command anything that your Subiectes conscience telleth him to be contrary to the law of God. It is answered according to Bonaventure, that he is bound to lay away his conscience. &c. and obey, yea, if he have probable, and discreet, though not manifest and evident belief: for obedience, let him do that which is commanded him, because he is bound in such a doubt so to do, and is excused for obedience sake, but let him by no means do it of his own will, because he may not for that he should sin mortally &c. As for perplexity of sinning, every way whereinto we are brought by this doctrine, which (as they teache) is while men be in the briars: sometime between two mortal sins, sometime between two venial, sometime between a mortal and a venial sin, thus they speak. D. Thomas saith, that also is no hindrance to this doctrine: for it is no matter though one be perplexed by some suppositiō, though no man be simply perplexed: that is upon condition unless he put away that erroneous conscience, or he is perplexed while that conscience remaineth. But here is plain contradiction and falling out between these doctors, as there is not sound agreement, in that they write of an erroneous, or lying conscience binding: for the case being thus supposed that they may not do against their conscience though it be Erroneous and evil upon pain of damnation. Then cometh in M. Howlet, who 〈◊〉 with his author, sometime saith of him self and other such Catholics here, y ^t either they must renounce God by doing that which in judgment and conscieuce they condemn: be their conscience right or wrong it is no matter: all is one: or else sustain such intolerable molestations as they cannot bear. A hard strait, especially seeing, as he saith elsewhere Conscience dependeth of judgment and not of will, and so cannot be framed and reduced to conformimitie, &c.

Here is a diverse and doubtful speech of conscience, and a great extremity that men be now brought into, as seemeth by this doctriue, what shall they do; shall they, to burst out or come forth of this maze, choose the less evil as they are willed in their canon, & by Gregory, which is contrary to that: we may not do evil that good may come thereof: or shall they change their pretended consciences, y ^t surely is the best, & so are they willed to do, enen by some of their own writers: As for that bond of erroneous conscience that they pretend it is none at all, nor of conscience simply, other wise then with God, and under him: Augustine saith well (as D. Thomas, can allege) that the commandment of the inferior power bindeth not, if it be contrary to the commandment of the superior power, as if 〈◊〉 under governor of a Province, &c. bid that which his Emperor or head governor forbid: why did he not answer that objection so, where the Law of God, and conscience command contraries: For I pray you in all reason, is not God, and our bond of duette to him expressed in his word written, above our conscience, and all duty to man, if comparison be made, namely the same being confessed 〈◊◊〉 erroneous and lying; But ( M. Howlet saith) that cannot be in him, & his fellows, without 〈◊〉 of God, but that say we is false, we utterly deny it: as that also is, that such a conscience dependeth of judgment and not of will, when it is their own mere willfulness, and a foolish, and false opinion and persuasion, or else if they needs will refuse counsel, under hope to deceive the Prince and State here, and by their Rhetorical and cunning lying, to bring them to their bend at last, where they she we themselves very confident and bold. Let them stick still in their supposed and condition all perplexity, that is, in their filthy mire, which is but a vain opinion of their own, as their own writers alsosay: So we may be free from such naughty, vain, and devilish doctrine: Let them call unto them a heap of Heretics, Idolators, blasphemers, fleshly men, drunkards, villains, tagge and rag, yea, the devils of hell, themselves, to acknowledge and embrace this doctrine of theirs, and to profess this religion. Let them, if they needs will, join hearts and hands together. Let them carry with them multitude, antiquity, consent, their well meaning minds, as they call them, and what they will besides, Let us cry: Hear ô heaven, hear ô earth, and be astonished: Hear ô Christians, Princes, and people, high and low, detest and abhor this religion, and such Saints and Masters. Let us follow Christ Jesus, the Prophets, and Apostles, their doctrine, and the profession of the Gospel. I speak 〈◊〉 this while but of Popish profession, religion, and doctrine: I speak not of their life, behavior, and conversation, as fruits of their doctrine. There remain in men infirmities: but such profession and doctrine, or teaching in religion and life, I cry out upon, I defy this religion, as moste abhominable abomination before GOD and man, and crying for vengeance from heaven. And yet touche I but one parte, and one branch that these men pull me into, taking but their own examples in the first Table, and in one commandment of the second Table only. I assure thee, ( 〈◊〉 reader) that I loath, and forspring thy ears 〈◊〉 in this argumētto enter into some cases of conscience, so they entitle and crown their beastly filthiness, that these religious, maydenly Friars, and saints, as they must be called, propound and set us down in their books, under questions and answears. Thine ears would glowe, if in this point, thou shouldest hear some of the meditations and stuff, even of a book entitled, the Angelical Sum, of the cases of conscience, written by Friar Angelus in deed and name, as he is reported: But away with this Popish religion, Fye on the Devil & his doctrine & imps. Our English Romanists have at this day, as they tell us three readers among them in the cases of Conscience beyond Sea; But if that great Romish Harlots breasts, yield her children such sustenance, in stead of the sincere milk of the word of God, or as Saint Peters very words are reasonable milk, and without guyle: for all their great brags, for all their baits to catch simple souls; we wish all men as they tender their own salvation, to take heed of these Masters & their religion. It is written (gentle reader) of Augustine, that he opened and set abroad the 〈◊◊〉 of the Manichee Heretics, because the very opening thereof, was enough to 〈◊〉 and foil them. This I hope will serve the reader both for his profit to this ende, and for any just defense upon the occasion ministered here.

Yet some what more for the matter, and our Sovereign, and this States just defense in the execution of the wholesome laws here established for the abrog 〈◊〉 of 〈◊〉 , superstition, treason, rebession, &c. and the good 〈◊〉 of Christ's true religion, godliness, and honesty. Against these quarrel 〈◊〉 let me say in general, first to you Papists, whilst that under pretence of conscience, ye thus provide for yourselves in this per 〈◊〉 , imagining that no justice can enforce you to do any act of our Religion: ye provide in the mean while very selenderly, and very evil for the common 〈◊〉 , and for her Majesty: for if this doctrine whereon your 〈◊〉 examples are grounded be generally true, That not in the doer only, but in the inforcer also nothing may be attempted under pain of deadly sin, and damnation, against any man's conscience, though it be erroneous, judging that which is mortal sin, to be good and necessary: as infidelite, heresy, theft, whoredom, &c. Why not murder also with the rest: Howe then shall her Matestie and the State make and execute laws, to restrain lewdness; If they say: It is against their conscience, not to do the things by law forbidden them, or to abstain from the same as you do, they may not in justice be enforced to do against their conscience, that is, leave robbing and other villainy: they may not be hanged, punished, or so forth, for the same. Will you have thē punished that under pain of deadly sin and damnation are bound not too do otherwise then they do, or contrary thereunto at least. A great burden lieth upon them, and will cannot be forced, nor they may not be enforced to do against their conscience, though it be naught, Again, sir, necessity excuseth both a thief, & a murderer by your Canon law and Doctrine, and that more then for Whooredome, because necessity hath no law. Again, in necessity all things ought to be common, &c. Thus seemeth her Majesty, and the State likewise to be brought into perplexity, by these men's doctrine, that either they must leave of making and executing wholesome civil laws: or else be found enforcers of some men, to do against their conscience: Whereof, as this is by them accounted wicked and damnable, so the other must needs be to the State and common wealth at least very dangerous. But this with them is no great matter, where perplexity is, they must choose y ^e less evil, they well deserve, these gentlemen, and the religion of God and his people; of Kings, Princes, Civil Magistrates, and common wealths also. There is talk of Libertines, Anabaptists, Householders of Love, and I wote not who else: But Popery surely is a hotchpotche of all wickedness, the mother of all sectcs and heresies, and the nurcerie of all mischief: Thus do they seem to reason, who so enforce men to do against their erroneous conscience, commit herein horrible mortal sin, and are in a damnable case: But Magistrates by making and executing penal laws upon traitors, thieves, murderers &c. pretending conscience enforce mē to do against their erroneous conscience: therefore magistrates by making & executing penal laws upon traitors, thieves & murderers, &c. pretending conscience commit horrible mortal sin, and are in a damnable case.

Thus as in teaching that he falleth and faulteth horribly that doth against that which his understanding, reason, or erroneous conscience, as they speak, telleth him to be good, though it be mortal sin: M. Howlet, and the Papists open a window by their doctrine to the Libertines, and them that are lead by inspiration, and pretend the motion of the spirit altogether to cloke their filthy sin, & wickedness under, if they yet y ^t say; they may not resift the motions of y ^e spirit, have not a better or not so bad a pretence, but more religious then they that say: they may not under pain of damnation do against reason, be it right, be 〈◊〉 wrong, which is Philosophical, and seemeth to be profane: So again by their doctrine of enforcement, and their threat of damnation against the enforcers of naughty men to do against their naughty conscience; they under. mine the lawful authority of Ciuil Magistrates and their wholesome laws, made and executed against sin and wickedness, and agree too well with the Anabaptists, and such other as allow not of Magistrates: but as we highly thank God for her Majesty and this Gospelling state, of whom we receive this double benefit, first of heavenly doctrine and religion; whereby men's consciences out of God's word are rightly instructed and informed, and these vices and transgressions reproved, and they enforced to haunt public assemblies, & hear their duty there shown them that either are ignorant or willful: Next, of public honesty and peace, maintained among us by laws, and the 〈◊〉 of the same, pretend they conscience or whatsoever, condignly restrained, and by severity punished: So again, do I tell them in a word that Christ's religion taken out of God's book, if they have grace to enter the profession thereof, will ease all this matter, and void and clear that which they defusedly, and darkly, and dangerously teache, of an erroneous conscience and the bond thereof, and of perplexity: for in God's book, they shall 〈◊〉 no such stuff. But the matter being well & duly examined their persuasion will be found by that book, to be nothing less then conscience, and there we are commanded to do that only that is good, and forbidden to do that is evil, we may not do evil, no not that good may come thereof. Or if that like them best, let it bear the name of adiuelishe conscience, and so to be refourmed, or otherwise to abide the smart which such wickedness justly deserveth, 〈◊〉 out especially, to the hurt of Church and common wealth. Grounde therefore gentle (M. Howlet ) your conscience hence forth upon Christ the true rock, and his heavenly doctrine, and let Popery go: Or else be content to reform the same by that rule, wheresoever you have grounded it afore time. Hear (if not me in this case) yet some of your own side, to induce you heereto. Be not too much addicted to your D. Thomas, and your own conceit, stay not obstinately on the text of your Canon Law. Be content to hear the gloss, if he mend the text & say better. Though there be of your side that say: An erroneous conscience bindeth as strongly as a good conscience, and that in the worst degree it bindeth a man to do according unto it, So as if he do contrary to it, he sinneth, so as his conscience abiding such, the man is perplexed, till he put it away, and another way his erroneous conscience bindeth him so, as if he do not accor ding unto it, he sinneth, If he do according unto it, he sinneth not, which is John's case of worshipping the Devil: Yet is there again some even of your side that say 〈◊〉 : Where a man's conscience biddeth him, that is contrary to the law of God, it bindeth him not to do it, but bindeth him to lay away his conscience, which if (M. Howlet ) and his authors, and other our Roman Catholics at this day would have consulted withal, or hearkened unto, they would I suppose, not have made so evil a choice as they do, but have written otherwise then they usually now do, following herein the worser sort of their Doctors. The words of their own gloss in Commentary upon the text of their Canon, not bearing the untruth thereof in the matter of perplexity, correcteth y ^e same, so forcible is God's truth in some, even in most popish days: the words of your gloss contrary to the text are these.

But we must say no man, can be perplexed between two evils: because thence it would follow that some man of necessity should be bound to do evil: but the Canon saith, that God would never render destruction: except a man were found willingly to have sinned, as 23. q. 4. Nebuchadnezzar ver. vasis irae. Moreover if, of necessity we were bound to do anything: the law that forbiddeth it should be impossible, where as notwithstanding every law ought to be possible, as before distinct. 4. erit. Perplexitie therefore as touching the thing it self is nothing but as touching the mind and foolish opinion of some man, there is some perplexity. Wherefore the Jews were not perplexed unless in mind, and therefore should have asked counsel of the wiser and better learned: as of the Apostles or holy scriptures, &c.

Now return I. M. Howlet, to the particular examination of your words, which that I be not driven to repeat, I desire the reader to peruse a part as I have before set y ^e same down: You make your entrance into this great & religious matter of conscience, by a profane sentence takē out af Aristotle's Rhetoric, but howe ever this may serve Philosophical, and your School divinity: wherewith the 〈◊〉 of Christ's Gospel hath of some time been too much bastarded, yet thanks be to God, he hath opened our eyes to see and discern between man's wisdom, and the heavenly truth, so as being forewarned by the holy Ghost, to beware least any man spoil us through Philosophy and vain deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the rudimentes of the world, and not according to Christ, &c: We mean to take as good heed of your vain speculations, as God shall give grace: that is only good to every man (say you out of your Philosopher) which ech man's understanding telleth him to be good, unto which the Scriptures & divines 〈◊〉 . Howe then, are the counsels and ways of the Lord, and those of men so opposed in the scriptures: the one approved and allowed, the other rejected; Howe is it so much and so often cried out upon in the Scriptures, and men severely forbidden to follow their own ways, or to do that which seemeth good in their own eyes: but that always, and alonely, which is agreeable unto the Lord, upon whose direction, if we be his, we wholly depend. There is hardly anything more dangerous and hurtful for men to follow, then that which is here made the fountain of all good unto thē: Did not God, to draw frō following y ^e direction of man's understanding in this life, give his people holy laws and commandments, to distinguish between good and evil, and continually to direct them by, that they might serve him in holiness and righteousness, in his presence, in his sight, or before him all the days of their life, that is: so, and in such order as he in his holy word appointeth and auoweth; If any be in Christ, he is a new creature: Saith the Apostle, &c. How far differeth this holy doctrine of God, (as meeter and better for Christians to receive) from that profane sentence of M. Howlet; that is only good to every man which eche man's understanding telleth him to be good, &c. Is it even so in deed; fie of that divinity: the holy Ghostes divinity, you see is clean contrary; It is yet further written. There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh God, all are gone out of the way, &c. And again, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will cast away the understanding of the prudent. Hath not God made the wisdom of the world foolishness; &c. The wisdom of the flesh is enimitic agianst God: death, &c. O Lord I know (saith the Prophet) that the way of man is not in him self, neither is it in man to walk, and to direct his steppes. And therefore the heavenly wise man saith further also: All the ways of a man are clean or right in his own eyes: But the Lord pondereth the Spirites. And this made the heavenly Prophet and king, though he were very wise, yet leaving his own understanding to have recourse herein to GOD by prayer: Thy hands have made me, and fashioned me, give me understanding that I may learn thy commandments, the steppes of a man are ruled by the Lord: howe can a man then understand his own way; saith Solomon. And the reason is rendered elsewhere: All the imaginations, or devices of the thoughts of man's heart (saith God in Moses) are only evil continually. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of man, that they are vanity. And the Apostle yet further: The Lord knoweth that the thoughts of the wise be vain: The heart is deceitful and evil above all things, who can know it? &c.

Better a great deal and more consonant to the doctrine of the scriptures than you, spake that old father of the Greek Church when comparing man's understanding w ^t divinity & divine matters, he said. There can be nothing worse than to go about to discern & measure God's matters with man's reason: for so falleth everyone from the foundation of faith, and is carried far, wandering about with error and is forsaken of the light. &c. You see it is blasphemy (saith he in another place) to go about to discuss divine matters with reasō, so hath man's reasō compared to God's matters, nothing common or agreeable, If we shall finally consider (saith he in y ^t former places) that Marciō, Manes, Valētinus & other that brought in wicked heresies & pernicious doctrines into the church measured divine things with human reason (look upon your own fathers M. Howlet and take them by the hand) We shall find that so at length they became ashamed of the mystery of the holy incarnation, &c. Whose heresies also elsewhere he fathereth for their beginning upon the Gentiles & Philosophers. Augustine also a latin doctor retracting that which he had aforetime too philosophically written hereof against the Academikes saith thus: as touching man's nature there is nothing better in him then understanding and reason, but he that will live a blessed life must not live according to that, for so liveth he after the manner of a man, where he should live agreablie to God, to attain to happiness; to come whereunto the understanding or mind may not be contented with it self, but must be subject to God. &c, Amongst many other, let this here suffice, to show generally how well man's reason or understanding agreeth with God, good divinity and religion.

For your Philosophers sentence, taken out of Aristotle's Rhetoric, which you make so great account of in divinity. Let us examine it yet a little more. First M. Howlet which hath been and is your common fault, you cite not your sentence truly out of the Philosopher, if ye read it not there yourself, be better advised another time: if you knew the matter & willingly perverted it, your fault is the greater. Leave therefore both these faults, or else give us leave to reprove both in you. Look upon your place in Aristotle, consider his purpose, which is to show whence a man may take his proofs in consultation, referring the same to profit, which is his drift, and this profit he calleth good. Then let the reader hardly examine and confer Aristotle's words with M. Howlets. Thus find I Aristotle in this matter: amongst diverse other things that profit and help in doing matters whereof me consult, some simply and acknowledged amongst all, some in parte for certain respect & allowed of some men, all which he calleth good, as w ^t him; good is divided, into honest, profitable and pleasant things. Whatsoever things (saith he) understanding would deliver to everyone & whatsoever things the understanding, of, in, or about, everything, delivereth, that is to every mā, or to everything good, he doth notsay, that only is good, which reckoneth up a great sort of marks to know good by. Besides neither doth he say, eche man's understanding, and so include corrupt men's understanding, how bad soever it be, as in religion, you do here Heathen men, Turks, Infidels and yourselves Papists, &c. In civil things understanding needeth to be civil, & you know Aristotle in the matter of virtue and good, speaketh often̄ and much of right and good reason: and ye hear of a sound mind in a sound body among the very heathen. Neither yet doth he confound a man's understanding with the testimony of Conscience. Furthermore, Aristotle, can distinguish this word good, as ye know, not into honest, pleasant, and profitable things only, but into things good indeed and apparently good, simply and generally, and of it self good, and sometime particularly, and good to us, &c, these things and such other circumstances are necessary to be known, to understand rightly even in philosophy the sentence ye fetch out of Aristotle's Rhetoric. Agayne, we must know he speaketh of good in his rhetorique as it is the subject or matter of an Orator. And what is that, to speak of good, as it belongeth to divinity and a Divine, or to a Christian, who for his actions or doings must fetch from God, and his will and approbation, that that is good, and try it by the Touch of his word and Law, which is our only rule to know good and bad by, & not our own understanding. It were not to be marvelled at then though Aristotle, as a philosopher and wise heathen man, making understanding and reason as it were a Queen or Prince in this little world man, to sit in his mind for doing civil things to rule, prescribe, command, order and make lawee, to the inferior partes as the will and affections should speak thus, and more too in moral philosophy. And yet ywis this Prince is many times but ill favoredly sighted, and worse followed and obeyed: the truth and experience also telleth us farther y ^t men's minds are corrupted, their understanding blinded, and become so weak and dull, in heavenly things in deed, to speak no more; that too 〈◊〉 now, can they or will they tell what is good and godly: one that is pooreblinde, hath but an evil eye: to direct and guid a man's body aright. A blind eye guideth yet worse or nothing at all: and yet this is of it self man's reason and understanding to lead him in good & godly things. I think yourself will grant me, for the most parte; unless the eyes of our understanding be lightened by God's holy spirit; and framed frō above. The light of the body is the eye, (saith our Savior Christ) if thē thine eye be single thy whole body shall be light: But if thine eye be evil thē thy body is dark. Wherefore if the light which is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness; If therefore thy whole body shall be light having no part dark, saith he, in S. Luke) then shall all be light, even as when a candle doeth light thee with the brightness. Your D. Thomas half a Philosopher, & half a Divine could yet decide the matter thus out of the Psalm. Many say who shall show us good things; the light of thy countenance Lord is marked upon us; as though he should say: the light of reason that is in us, can so far show us good things and rule our will, as it is the light of thy countenance, that is, taken from thy countenance: the natural man is not capable of the things of the spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him; neither can he know thē because they are spiritually discerned (saith the Apostle.) And again: the things which eye hath not seen, neither ear hath heard, neither came into man's heart, which God hath prepared for them that love him: but God hath revealed thē unto us by his spirit, &c. Do not the contrary opinions that be in men's minds, not of the common sort only, where as the common saying is verified. So many men so many minds, but even in the wisest and grauest Philosophers themselves, declare the defect that is in man's understanding to guide him by. What Philosopher ever knew himself aright; not knowing the corruption of man's nature. Did not one of the greatest of them profess that he knew this only: that he knew nothing: was not the name of wisdom and wise men refused among the wisest of them. And they content to be called but philosophers, that is lovers of wisdom only, Did not the Academikes confess and profess the uncertainty and weakness of man's mind and understanding; What understanding of man ever conceived the mistery of Christ's incarnation: that the word was made flesh, or that one should be borne of a virgin, & such other mysteries of our religion; In deed they were no Mysteries, if man's understanding could reach and attain unto them. Fleshe and blood hath not revealed this unto thee, but my father which is in heaven, saith our Savior Christ unto Peter confessing him. Is that only good to every man which ech man's understanding telleth him to be good? then farewell in effect all goodness in Christ's religion, Did not the imagination and opinion that there are many God's, greater and lesser. &c proceed from this puddle of man's understanding; whiles he would thereby measure the nature of God: Whence grew all the superstitions y ^t ever were in the world: but frō y ^t vanity of men's minds, their understanding, & reason. Well saith the Apostle that men became vain in their reasonings & their foolish heart was darkened whē they professed themselves to be wise they became fools &c. Is that only good unto every man, which ech man's understanding telleth him to be good: How if man's understanding and the word of God disagree as they do too too often, shall that only be good for him, that his understanding telleth him to be good. In the Infidels judgment and conscience, it seemeth good to say: there is no Messias, it must be good for him, by your doctrine to hold that, and to yield 〈◊〉 do thereafter is not wicked. The doctrine of the Libertines and such as hold and teache that hand over head, men should follow the motions of the spirit, less absurd then yours herein; you say that is only good to every man which each man's understanding telleth him to be good: they say the spirit moveth me to this or that therefore I must do it: goodly words of yours in Aristotle's philosophy and so forth, theirs in divinity, with better show then yours, which yet you would make us believe, that scriptures and divines agree. But leaving the rule of the scriptures & God's law, both are very dangerous and evil to rule men by. How far are ye of, from that pernicious doctrine: that everyone shall be saved by his own religion, unless possible you will have all men saved without any religion, if that only be good to every man, which eche man's understanding telleth him to be good. The Idolaters understanding telleth him that idolatry is good, the blasphemers that blasphemy. &c. here is a confusiō of good in deed The wiseman saith that the way of a fool is right in his own eyes, is that and that only good to him; neither of both surely: for he addeth. But he that heareth counsel is wise. What is to say: evil is good and good evil: If this be not; to say, that is only good unto every man which ech man's understanding telleth him to be good.

But let me give you an example out of the same book of your Master Aristotle, that you here allege, because that possible may more prevail with you, speaking of many honest and commendable things, in praising as he doeth in your place alleged of many good and profitable; in counsailing he teacheth, that to be revenged of ones enemies, rather then to be reconciled is commendable, & rendereth the reason: for (saith he) to render evil for evil, or to requite, is a just thing, & every just thing is commendable. The Doctrine I ween, learned out of this your Master Aristotle the Philosopher, made you to invent lies of the faft at Stamforde, to quite, as you say the Puritan, and to write many such like things, as we read in this your Epistle dedicatorie. To be even with one, is a just and a commendable thing: but howe ever this quite the 〈◊〉 , it is quite contrary to the Scriptures and heavenly doctrine of Christ and his Apostles. Your Master Aristotle, also in the same place you cite, saith: those things are good & profitable, which every mā is most affected and dilighted withal, as the Warriour with victory, the ambitious with honor, the covetous with monie, &c. scripture & divines to agree with this hellike doctrine; God forbid: We have better School masters then so, thanks be to God. Every good giving, and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lyghts, &c. even to this father of glory must we pray for this gift of wisdom, and revelation, through the knowledge of him, that the eyes of our understanding may be lightened, that we may know what the hope is of his calling, &c. It is a seconde grace and gift, that I may so speak, above and beyond nature, and the light thereof, or eche man's understanding? Your Saint Thomas, if you would have consulted but with him, would have told you as much. Searche the Scriptures: Are ye not therefore deceived, because ye know not the Scriptures, &c. saith our Savior Christ, hear him. As all points of Divinity and Religion would be grounded on God's book, and the Scriptures, not upon the Philosophers, and Rhetoric: so especially, when there is question of conscience, or of doing or not doing thereafter, in matters of religion, should we have recourse unto that heavenly 〈◊〉 : but ye say, The Scripture and Divines agree to this sentence of the Philosopher, when they say: That we shall be judged at the last day according to the testimony our of conscience. Make this sentence plainer, and expound it not by the first, least both fall out to be very false, & very pernicious; the better of the two, make of it what you can, is very perplexed, dark, and doubtful, at least as you set it down and follow it. This may be propounded in lecture among you by him, that is your public reader in the cases of conscience, but we have seen to much of your School divinity and devilish doctrine in conscience, to haunte your Romish lectures, or receive that is therein taught, and professed. Our senses are better acquainted with the phrases of the Scriptures. If this latter sentence be all one with the other, and first cited out of Aristotle, thē might you have spared your Philosophers Rhetorical sentence, and rested upon this which ye pretend, to take out of the Scripture and Divines. The heavenly Scripture hath no need of man's wisdom, to be understood saith one, but 〈◊〉 y ^t revelation of y ^t spirit: but first I tell you, I find not y ^t words ye set us down in those Scriptures, which ye quote us in the margin, ye tell us of being judged at the last day, according to the testimony of our conscience, ye send us to 2. Cor. 1. and to 1. John 3. The Apostle in the place ye point us, speaketh more particularly, of the testimony of a good conscience, only, and of his own that he had in this world, his words be these: Our rejoicing is this, the testimony of our conscience: that in simplicity and godly pureness, not by fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world, &c. Mark here, that Saint Paul had his conversation in the world, not directed by his own understanding, As your Philosophical sentence pretendeth, not by fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God in simplicity, and godly pureness. The testimony of such a conscience, is a goodly matter, and to be rejoiced in, in deed let it be, if you will a 〈◊〉 feast, &c. And this is the odds here, between a heathen and a Christian life, yet doth not the Apostle in this place say generally: that we shall be judged at the last day, according to the testimony of our conscience, neither yet of him self saith he so much, speaking of the testimony of his own conscience. Though I deuy not, but y ^t faithful being received 〈◊〉 by gods mercy, & engraffed into Christ by faith, shall have matter of 〈◊〉 in a good conscience, & in well doing, even at the last day, But you carry it further. The Apostle, in another place, speaking of his fidelity in his Ministry, and of a better conscience still, then you seem hereto note, showeth yet a higher Judge rather and more sharper of sight, who will judge him more thoroughly, then according to his own understanding and conscience: Nay, as one that durst not justify him self, though his conscience charged him with nothing in his function, he rejecteth that judgment from himself, and from all men also, as unfit and insufficient: unto the Lord himself, who at his coming will lighten things that are hid in darkness, and make the counsels of the hearts manifest. The other place ye cite, to show we shall be judged at the last day, according to our conscience, is, out of Saint John's Epistle, where thus it is written: (I must guess, because ye neither set down the words, nor the verse) For thereby (that is by loving in deed and truth) we know that we are of the truth, and shall before him assure our hearts: For if our heart condemn us, God is greater then our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved if our heart condemn us not, then have we boldness toward GOD. Here the Apostle speaketh of that boldness, and entrance with confidence, that the faithful here have towards God, by Christ Jesus, and by faith in him, & of the benefit thereof: which, as by a certain mark is expressed by true and vnfaygned love, and of the lack of this full persuasion, again, what a loss it is: here is nothing spoken of our being judged at the last day, according to our conscience. And this is all I find of this matter, in the places of Scripture here alleged.

For the Divines that ye talk of, because ye quote us Augustine alone for all, & send us to two places 〈◊〉 him, and the matter is not great what is there said, I refer it to the learned Readers judgment, that is disposed to examine the places. You report here & bring in Austin for proof that we shall be judged at the last day according to the testimony of our conscience. Where Austin speaketh not of the judgment of the last day, in neither of both the Chapters. Consult therefore with them, from whom ye took these places, that they may appoint you fitter for the purpose; or you better follow the simplicity and sincerity of the sacred Scriptures. If ye say Austin, name conscience, or speak a word thereof in both the Chapters. I grant you: 〈◊〉 you must remember with all: that everything may not be gathered of every word: The two places much agree, & the first ye recite hath relatiō to the latter; he saith not that which you speak here. Again, speaking very briefly, as for a conclusion of his first book of Christian doctrine Of this sentence of S. Paul, The end of the commandment is love, out of a pure heart and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned; he showeth wherefore the Apostle put in that clause, of a good conscience which he putteth for hope saith, Austin. Learn you also saith M. Howlet to add this word good to conscience: join it with faith, and keep that bond or knot that the Apostle maketh in this sentence. And so if you can apply it to yourself, ye shall not only have great matter of rejoicing: but her Majesty, and the laws also I doubt not, to bear with your conscience, and to tender the same as reason and equity would: and besides because the same shall be found to agree with God's word, & to be grounded thereon, we shall be as ready to auowe and allow thereof, as we now are to 〈◊〉 the same, for y ^t it is so directly contrary to the word, and therefore neither for you to flatter yourselves in, nor meet for the State to allow or bear withal. We doubt nothing but that the testimony of a good & upright conscience is of great weight and force and to be respected and hearkened unto: So that we remember still 〈◊〉 a pure heart therewith, and an unfeigned faith, which must ever have the light of God's word go before or accompany the fame, in the faithful, that under the color of conscience, other persuation, or the rule of reason deceive us not. The 〈◊〉 of all is: I would have you know conscience a right, and distinguish well between a good and a naughty conscience by the Scriptures. For the accord or agreement between your two sentences, one, and the first, taken out of Aristotle's Rhethorike: that is only good unto every man, which eche man's understanding telleth him to be good. The other, as is supposed out of divinity: that we shall be judged at the last day according to the testimony of our conscience. Make them you agree, as you can, I cannot see the agreement between them. Understanding is one thing, and the testimony of our conscience is another thing, good to every man now, and 〈◊〉 at the last day be two: Finally, the two sentences, as in words, so in substance and meaning, seem utterly to disagree, I would therefore, whereas you say: the scriptures and divines agree unto the Philosophers saying: you would or could have made the Philosophers saying agree with the scriptures rather, which though ye shall travel, as ye do, by enticing speech of man's wisdom, to perform: Yet all is but in vain, the thing will never come about. Let Philosophy go therefore, and the Philosopher in testing the fountain & rule of good 〈◊〉 us Christians. Let God's word and law, or the holy Scriptures be our rule there in alone: according to that: there is one rule and measure for one thing: let reason in 〈◊〉 , & with your S. Thomas if ye will be the 〈◊〉 of 〈◊◊〉 actions: let y ^t spirit of god be y ^t beginning of all good in us that be 〈◊〉 , 〈◊〉 , and other. Augustine, a Divine whom ye 〈◊〉 in this matter, saith very well against your first sentence of Philosophy in this sentence of his: Faith openeth the way to understanding, and 〈◊◊〉 it. And again, as is alleged in your own decrees: All the life of the unfaithful is sin: neither can it be good, that is done without God: for where there lacketh the knowledge of the enternall, unchangeable truth, there is false virtue even in the best behavior and manners. And concerning the phrases & manner of speaking of Philosophers and divines howe different they ought to be, thus saith Austin: Philosophers speak with words at will, and in matters very hard to understand, fear not the offense of religious ears: but we that are Christians and 〈◊〉 have a law to speak after a certain rule, least liberty of speech or words, breed wicked opinion of those things which are signified thereby. And thus much concerning your two sentences and the agreement thereof, whereupon all the rest, that followeth here of this matter seemeth to be grounded.

Of your propositions thus taken from Philosophers & Divines, ye say it followeth that whatsoever we do contrary to our judgment and conscience, is according to the apostle, damnable, because we discern it to be evil and yet do it, But that which the Apostle here saith, for all your whatsoever & false gloss, must be understood in those things, which are lawful, saith your own D. Thomas in y ^t very next sentence & verse before y ^t last; upon these words, which are y ^t ground of that that followeth, Blessed is he that condemneth not himself in that he alloweth. That moderation should ye have kept, but ye do not: for ye say, be the action in it self never so good, and the man that doth it never so bad (as seemeth) for you name us a Gentile or Heathen man, and to confess there is messias, yet because it seemed naught in his judgment and conscience, therefore to him shall it be accounted a damnable sin at the last day. Heereby it appeareth ye hold: that at the last day the testimony of a 〈◊〉 judgment and naughty conscience; even of an Heathen shall be admitted to clear him from evil, and to condemn him for doing good, or that any man shall be damned at the day for acknowledging there is a Messias, against his wicked judgment and conscience at least; will there not be other matters sufficient and I now think you, to condemn such men for: but that such cases and causes as these unwonted and vnmentioned in the Scriptures, should after they be by your heads devised and moved, then also be alleged; This is profane and vain babbling and brawling which breedeth questions, rather then godly edifying which is by faith: which thing the holy Apostle S. Paul so carefully warneth his scholars Timothy and Titus in many places to take heed of, & to avoid, they may beseem your scholding disputes, your subttle schools and readinges, they beseem not her majesties ears, they agree not with the divinity schools of the holy Ghoste. Did your testimonies of Scriptures and Divines you set us down, teathe you this; or whence had you it; shall we be judged at the last day according to the testimony of our conscience be it good, be it bad, must we be judged by that only? Shall it be now good, and then good and so always good, to the Gentile to deny the Messias; because his understanding, judgment and conscience telleth it him to be good? &c. This is a marvelous and strange Paradox, the foundation & building thereon are much alike. Is there no difference nor odds; Before I further examine the matter you tell us: Let me a little consider howe you handle the holy Scripture with your foul hands, or our evil favored claws, and how untowardly you allege your testimonies still; because we discern it, to be evil, and yet do it: Ye quote us for it: Rom. 14. though ye name no verse, yet your words seem to send us to the last verse of the Chapter, which hangeth on the words before, & are a reason rendered. Ye cite the words falsely & corrupt the sense: Which that it may the better be perceived, I will set down both your words and also the Apostles. Thus you: Whatsoever we do contrary to our judgment and conscience, is according to the Apostle, damnable, because we discern it to be 〈◊〉 and yet do it. The Apostle thus: He that doubteth, if he eat, is condemned, because he 〈◊〉 not of faith. And whatsoever, is not of faith is sin. The Apostle speaketh particularly, and of a certain matter which restraineth his note of universality: You generally without any restraint or observation of the circumstance of the text, and matter treated of: he of a faithful man and of faith: You give us an example of a Heathen man, and talk at random of our own judgment and conscience, he speaketh of eating, which is an outward action, and of it self as they speak, indifferent: You in a far otherkind of things of their own nature good or evil. We acknowledge, in sum the holy Apostles words and sense, we find not yours in the text ye send us too. And it is an ill commentary that corrupteth the text. The Apostle saith, because not of faith.

Now because you have set down, in stead thereof, judgment and conscience, you foist also into the text, the word: discern, Because we discern it to be evil, and yet do it. If you say you follow the Author of this your discourse, with whom yet in citing this text, ye altogether agree not, though ye both corrupt the same foully: As of him I speak in his place, so let me here tell you (what opinion soever, greater then reason you have, of your Master) we are not bound I tell you, to follow neither him nor you in corrupting of the holy Scriptures, ye both put in the word discern, of your own, and ye put our judgment, conscience, or knowledge for faith: which it seemeth, ye take out of your School men's Commentaries: But I would you would not change the words of holy scripture, into your Scholastical writers expositions, and terms, and set us the same down for scripture still: If your parenthesis here, (according to the Apostle) were thus, (according to our D. Thomas, or School Doctors, &c. or according to our notes, taken at the Lecture in cases of conscience, then might it peradventure stand right: but the Apostle and your D. Thomas, or School doctors, &c. not being one, you take to much upon you, and we can give you no such licentious liberty, to use the ones name for the other, I see 〈◊〉 you drive: It is a principle with you that Byrdes of one feather, must fly and hold together. Error agreeth very well (commonly) with error and falsehood: Your common translation of the Bible, (like as your Schoolmen) must be kept and followed inviolably, not to be checked nor corrected by the 〈◊〉 or Greek text under pain of the Popes great curse, hence belike you and your fellow, would seem to take your word: discern, But sir, there is falsehood in fellowship, though your eyes, M, Howlet, could not possibly discern, neither by day nor by night, every letter & syllable, and therefore might easily be deceived, in taking one word for another, y ^t were somewhat like; yet y ^e Autor of your treatise, me thinketh, might have looked better to y ^e matter, if it had been but for deceiving of you herein, & many other y ^t follow him. Where both of you have it discern, even your common translation, if ye look well on it, hath discern, Now Gramarians y ^t show y ^t etymology of words will tell you, y ^t discern, & discern, be two words different in signification: discern: is to put difference beetweene things: discern, is a higher word of judgment and authority, whereof we call A decree, &c. And your Pope decernimus statuimus, &c. They that leave both your word of decerning or judging, devised by yourselves, and discerning, which the word of your vulgar latin Translation, in this last verse of the 14. chapter to the Romans, and translate it by the word of doubting, as both in Latin and English is done, have both better, and 〈◊〉 rendered it, and expressed by a fit word, the meaning of the holy Ghost also. Cauell not here at, nor bark not at our translation, for leauiug here your vulgar, and common translation, he leaveth himself in another place, and translateth this very word, as our men do here. But dogs will bark, even at the Moon. You must be content to 〈◊〉 your own law, and to give us leave to deal with you truly in that, wherein you untruly take to yourselves liberty against us, you so pry into our translations, and translating of the Scriptures, that the least fault must be espied, yea, where there is none, fault must be imagined and devised, and we roundly taken up, and compared to a boy in a Grammar School, that should be brecht, so ye speak, and further, and worse to, whereof in his place. Leave your decerning, judging, and discerning: leave (for shame) your corrupting of the holy Scriptures, in word and sense: leave your caueling, and carping at our translations of the Bible: use in all, a better, and more upright conscience, then hitherto.

For the matter of an action good in it self, and the example ye bring us in, devised of a Gentile, that should for fear, say or swear that there were a Messias, it is altogether impertinent, and besides the Apostles purpose, who as I said, treateth not in that place of things simply good, or evil, or of bearing with a thing evil in it self, and of the own nature, much less with impiety or superstition, he speaketh but of outward things, he speaketh not of Gentiles, or Infidels, nor yet of obstinate Christians, that walk stubbornly, utterly condemning the profession of the Gospel: but of a brother, a faithful man, and one that hath received and embraced the profession of the Gospel, and is weak through ignorance of someone point, partaining to Christian liberty, in the outward use of God's creatures, wherein he is not yet thoroughly instructed: of bearing with such a one, by those whom God hath called to more plentiful knowledge of his heavenly truth, speaketh he. Again, the manner and the end of bearing must be considered, which is not to nourish error, or to obstinate & harden the weak in their opinion and doing: but rather to draw them by all means we may from error, and to advance them more and more in the knowledge of the truth. The Apostle calleth it before in this chapter edification when he biddeth us follow the things which concern peace and wherewith one may edify another, or as he speaketh in y ^e beginning of y ^e next chap. Let every mā please his neighbor in that which is good to edificatiō. Lastly, the matters y ^e Apostle here speaketh of particularly, would be considered, which are not all outward things, but such as God himself was author of in his Law. As distinction of meats and days, which while the Jews, being won to the Gospel did in those days retain, though they did it ignorantly not knowing the liberty of the Gospel, yet (till they might be fully persuaded therein by faith, which is grounded on doctrine and the word, they were vounde to keep by the commandment of God himself.

These circumstances considered, it will not be hard to spy out M. Howlets and his fellows ill dealing in this place, & to have the true sense & meaning, which if it be not wrapped and obscured with subtle quidities taken out of school questions, will plainly enough fall out of itself thus: that the faithful for his particular regard being in doubt or lacking the full persuasion of Faith (which is given by measure, and hath his time of growing and increasing) cannot without danger, nor should not attempt to do that wherein he is not by the word of God and faith, yet thoroughly resolved, when he may without danger of offending, abstain from the outward action, not stiffly standing nor flatering himself in his opinion: but moderating his doing by the gift and measure of faith, which he hath, ready upon further instruction and knowledge to grow forward and to profit. A thing verily in his kind much to be commended, and greatly to be borne with, is this respect of conscience, not to rushe into the doing of everything without all sense or remorse of conscience, not to attempt things, or presume to do the same, except the mind be thoroughly persuaded that God is therewith pleased, which it cannot be but by faith, and faith is grounded on the word of God. Christ shall not break a bruised read, nor quench the smoking flax, saith the holy Ghost. I would we all considered this point better then we commonly do, both in our selves, and in those with whom we daily and usually live,

But what maketh all this doctrine of the Apostle either for Gentiles and Dogs, that never were in the church or for papists, and other obstinate and willful heretics that break out of Christ's true church; do flatter themselves in there follyes; unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure (saith the Apostle,) but even their minds and consciences are defiled. &c. What maketh it against her Majesty and her upright and equal laws to stay the execution thereof; against superstitious & seditious persons bursting forth into violent acts and attempts against her Majesty's royal person and the state, and her most peaceable and quiet government, to follow that man of sin, the Pope of Rome, it maketh greatly. Against you M. Howlet and your fellows that abuse so great lenity, much to the clearing of her Majesty, and the state in meeting with your obstinacy maketh it greatly. M. How let tells us here of an Insidell that should say there were a Messias. &c. And his fellow in his discourse of a Jew too swear that there were a blessed Trinity against their consciences. What a sin it were to the doer and to the inforcer. But this is none of their case, nor her Majesty or her laws in dealing with thē. They have had now above these twenty years the preaching of the Gospel. And I trust, if not they that too unchristianly and vnnaturallye of late have withdrawn themselves from God & prince, to betake themselves to the Pope, yet those that live under her Majesty's government, and in her dominions, shall more and more (which God also grant) have the same daily to inform and direct their consciences aright in all godliness and honesty Such is her highness godly and tender care over us all. She like our good Prince forceth nones consciences, but very mildly proceedeth by order and law, as she needs must, to restrain the fury and pride only of such as make dissention in Christ his body, corrupt his sincere religion, and grow perillousto her royal estate and the realms. If this touch you M. Howlet, or your fellow hot catholics, thank yourselves, you teach here that it is lawful to restrain by temporal punishment such fellows, and her Majesty taketh it so to, Not as allowed by the church (which is your popish opinion) but as given of God and warranted by his word. For herein also I tell you, we differ from you, that you make the civil magistrates authority; to hang of the churches allowance, as you here insinuate, so to bring princes under the popes check. We go higher and say that the authority is immediately given them of God, and from him over every soul within their government, and so dependeth on the ordinance of the eternal God and his word. We say your church challengeth too much and haleth things too fast to it. Magistrates wax every day more godly wise than other, and will not be easily abused as afore time.

Ye speak of recalling home by temporal punishment such as you account heretics to y ^e unity of Christ his body, again, Your doctrine herein, & your violent practice scarcely agree; when you get the temporal sword on your side. Is that to recall them home; By fire and fagot to con sum them to asshes, which is your manner: These are two diverse ends ye know, learned, unlearned, young, old, men, women, no sort and degree spared. If her majesty and her laws repute you papists for heretics (as justly ye may be reputed) what have ye to say for yourselves; A bare denial only: retaining still popery and heresy in opinion, and broaching the same still among us, will hardly serve your turn, if you be put to it Be more equal & mild towards other unless ye look to have the same measure measured to you that ye meat to others and that with a great deal more uprightness and better conscience. But I am in doubt your, Catholic Church will never leave the tricks of a Stepmother or a strumpet rather. Ye know y ^e story of y ^e two women's pleading before king Salomō, for a child, either alleging her self to be the mother: but whē the living child should have been killed and divided at the Kings commandment, the true mothers heart was moved with compassion: and could by no means yield or abide to have the child killed, but the other that pretended only and was not indeed the mother, was very forward to have it killed and divided. I will say no more: but I would you hot Catholics and your popish church, had but half that compassion, and tenderness of heart, and respect to men's lives, that the profession and the professors of the Gospel have. But it is not in you, there is a contrary nature and a contrary dealing in the wolf, and in the shepherd & the sheep, Your hands have been too long imbrued in the. blood of God's saints, & it is the proper mark of your bloodte Antichristian church. It is that, ye glory in; God, amend you, if it be his blessed will, or else cut you shorter, Be yourself judge herein, M. Howlet. If you tell us your conscience in deed: or let the world tell. To whom you refer us, in comparing her majesty our most dread sovereign Queen Elizabeth, and her peaceable and mild government (having been so greatly disturbed and provoked to the contrary) and other princes, and the former times, that have not been acquainted with the profession of the gospel. And again you say, and truly that her majesties noble & merciful disposition is known and renowned, through out the world, The world (you say) doth know how that the great mercy and clemency of her Majesty, hath stayed oftentimes and restrained penalties from their execution and from the overthrowing of diverse men &c. It doth so indeed, and so doth it by experience of the sharp executions done aforetime by your procurements, and the overthrow of diverse both men and families, which feel the smarte, at this day. As you call yourselves Catholics and us protestants, yea heretics at pleasure, so in like manner say you, and say only; your religion is the old & so ours must be the new religion, we are gone out from you, and not you from us. &c. But leave these (enuiously devised) doubtful and racked terms of yours & us. &c, and have recourse to the scriptures: Let us there and thence make our plea, and then you shall be found to be that ye call us, & we to be that you would so fain chalēg to yourselves, to beautify your evil cause: as it needeth. Else let the word of God be judge between us: and look who be found to have swerved from the Prophets & Apostles doctrine; or 〈◊〉 have gone and fallen from that and them, let those be heretics, Spare not, In the mean while, in our just defense let our denial suffice to answer the unjust 〈◊〉 and accusations bringing only words without any proof.

Concerning the comparison ye make of her 〈◊〉 & this state, with other princes and states, not Christian only, but Turks and Infidels, your meaning and drifte therein may easily be espied. It deserveth another answer than my words, & yet to clear herein both our sovereign & the state towards the world, I told you before that your case is not like to Turks and Infidels: Besides, her majesty and this state, are not bound to follow other Princes examples, she being as free as they are, in y ^e government of her people; whē doubt may be made: First whether that be true you tell us of Princes and their order of governing Infidels: Have you been brought up among the Turks: have you travailed into the Indies and far partes of the world that you tell us of, to know this you report us of the Infidelles &c? Know you of yourself that this was never yet practiced; Or go you by report only, I think you take it at other. Next doubt may be made by Princes and states, whether they you talk of, use those Infidels that be under their government well and uprightly, and whether even in this point they do well or no; that being supposed which you affirm of them, which thing they had need and will understand too, before they 〈◊〉 bound to follow their example in governing the people subject unto them. This is reason, and princes over other princes and states, challenge no such superiority of prescribing, in order of government as you here too unadvisedly do. Neither are princes too curious to inquire, examine and judge, how the rest order their subjects in such cases, but content themselves with ruling their own people in y ^e fear of God, according to their own duty and God's word. I add yet further, that whereas you allege, It was never yet practiced, nor ever thought lawful by the Catholic church, that Infidelles should be enforced to any one act of our religion. And running still to your D. Thomas, say vide D. Thomas. &c. I answer and say, that Thomas his question is, Whether Infidelles are to be compelled to faith or to believe. Which because it is above man's power to do, as being the gift of God, or as he speaketh, To receive faith, pertaineth to the will, and the will cannot be forced. Therefore no mortal man may as seemeth, take upon him to force that which he cannot perform: But your question is of performing any act of Christian religion, & coming to Church, the one, that is faith is a heavenly inward gift, and is in the heart, the other, that is coming to church &c. is an external and outward act, and a profession of religion, or an inducement and outward exercise and means to bring us to faith, and to increase and continue the same in us. Now we say that the civil magistrate hath not only authority frō God, but is of duty bound to maintain God's honor, and as a principal parte of his charge, to see the commandments of the first Table of God's law outwardly kept and performed by all his subjects, without exception, so much as he may: punishing the trāsgressors also: unto which honor of God, and first Table of his commandments pertain the acts and outward exercises of God's true service and Christian religion. As then we highlye praise G O D daily for her majesty in this behalf, and for the singular care she hath over us her poor subjects, to provide us of preaching, and other means to bring us to God, and to further us in all godliness: So do we tell you plainly, that her Majesty by authority may (& doth therein, but her duty) enforce you to haunt Church Ass̄blies, to hear the preaching of the Gospel, &c. Which be the proper means to begin, increase and continue faith and godliness in you and us. Her part, her care, and charge it is, to provide and take heed nothing be put upon her people in God's matters, & his service, but y ^t which is warranted by his holy word, which whilst her majesty is occupied in, you disturb her Godly proceeding too much out of season & time, & too undutifully, D. Thomas evē in his question of Infidelles, saith. They are to be compelled yet, of the faithful if they have power, not to hinder Chtistes faith or religion either by blasphemies and railing, or by naughty persuasions, or else by open persecution and violence, &c, Mark well your D. Thomas his points. Now if Infidelles, which were never Christened, may be compelled in these things by your Thomas his judgment, much more may you be restrained in your rages, and violente and unreasonable dealings: punished for your disturbances, and printing and spreading of seditious libels and books, to the hindrance of the course of Christ's Gospel amongst us, and the perverting and poisoning of diverse; especially such as are of the simpler sort, and therefore easily seduced. And this is not disagreeing from Thomas his words, though you cannot abide, to have the same appli ed to you, be it never so true, in you, This is your fault, D. Thomas telleth expressly. Ye may be compelled to perform that ye have promised, and hold that ye have once received,. And bringeth good testimonies against you out of Augustine. You I say, that have been baptized into the faith of Christ, not of Rome nor the Popish church, and hardly any one of you found, within this Realm or among you English Romanists, that being of age now leave this Realm, that have not in the time of the profession of the Gospel here, gone to Church, and done other acts of our religion at one time or other in blessed king Edwards days, now, or both. Again ye know that your D. Thomas his manner in his sum, commonly is after he hath objected against the truth, to set on the contra ry side, that he taketh to be the truth, & in this question, after he hath out of other men objected: That Infidelles are by no means to be compelled to the faith, he addeth as it were of his own. But of the contrary side is y ^t which is said in the. 14. of Luke, Go out, into the ways and hedges & compel them to come in, that my house may be filled: But men enter into the house of God: that is into the holy church by faith, Therefore some saith he, are to be come pelled to the faith. This have I set down that you may see what vātage you have by sending us to your S. Thomas and your other doctors, for indeed sir, to show you might here have spared well enough in your margin Omnes doct. I could further allege to the contrary your subtle Doctor. John Scot, who had great followers. He holdeth herein, that it were godly and well done: If Infidels were compelled of their Princes with threats & fear, to faith & religiō: Even against your D. Thomas, & that you here set us down; You know or may know, howe common a thing it is in your religion (not in this Article only) to find the Scotists against the Thomists: Doctor against Doctor &c. But I had rather vnfoulde myself and the reader out of these contradictions and braules of your Popish writers, then stick therein. Her Majesty, besides that she simply and utterly taketh not upon her by force and violence, to compel to faith, as though she could give and imprint the same in men's hearts, though she set forth, maintain, and bind all her subjects to outward means and exercises of religion, as I have said, thereby showing what she wisheth and driveth unto, which she also useth herself, neither sitteth she in the conscience of any, which is proper to your Pope, his laws, and your religion: besides that her Majesty is free herein I say: She moreover useth her self in this case so godly, so wisely, so uprightly, and so moderately towards you, that deserve so ill, as if any fault, may justly be found, it is in this: that some of you are not straightlier looked unto, and more roundlier proceeded withal: But her Majesty is wise enough. Zizebutus a prince, is commended in one of the councils, and in your own Decrees, and counted very religious, in compelling to Christianity.

This is that in sum I would say unto you, for answer in this matter: For as much as there is no society of people, so barbarous lyghtly, that live without some outward exercise of Religion, and God hath beautified and commended Civil Magistrates in kingdoms, Common wealths, and Cities under the title of God's, and hath ordained them as his Ministers for our good, that we may receive praise frō autortie in doing well, and in doing otherwise, stand in fear, as who beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the Minister of God, to take vengeance on him that doth evil. Again, forasmuch as this Image of God, is in nothing more seen, namely, in public persons, & those of Autoritie then in procuring, promoting, & advancing daily of God's honor and service, by their power, and by giving & showing good example to others: for which cause principally they are advanced, & as on a mountain placed in Royal chair, that therefore I say, those Christian Kings & Queens, whō God hath called to this honor, to be Foster Fathers and Nurses to his Church and people, do well, and very acceptable service to GOD, (and are highly & highly, to be commended, and heartily and continually to be prayed for of all, for that the adversary on the other side, is mighty and suttle, not only for ranging them selves to God's holy and true Religion, taken out of the sacred Scriptures, and the outward exercises of the same, but for inducing also by the wisdom and power given them of GOD, all people and persons subject to them unto the like, by making good and wholesome laws, by encouragement, and by fear, according as the quality and circumstance of place, time, and person, require without all tyranny, and usurpation of the room, and place of the most high God of heaven, over men's consciences on the one side; and yet without all looseness on the other side, in omitting such opportunity and means, as God offereth for the benefit of the holy people, the Saints of the moste High. I speak of these, and of such as are by office called to public and high charge among them, in Church & common wealth, even Christian Kings, Queens &c. Of whō thus it is prophesied: The kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven shall be given to the holy people, of the most high, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all powers shall serve and obey him. This seemeth to be spoken of Christ his kingdom, and the time of the Gospel. &c. Now this consecrating of her self, and her authority wholly to GOD and his service, to the benefit of his Church is it, and it alone which her Majesty, in this case, of many years hath, & still doth, to God's glory, & her singular commendation, put in executiō among us her people, growing, I hope, daily from good to better: And this is that also, which no honest, faithful, good man, can justly be offended withal. This have I, if not overthrown, in your opinion perhaps, your bulwarks: yet sufficiently for this matter cleared the truth, I trust her Majesty also, and the state against your unjust quarrels and slanders.

THus you amplify iolilie, w ^t similitude & example, your long possession; as ye say, of the Catholic Church here in England, our riot also, and violent intrusion, & unjust, as you pretend, which you call: Law less proceeding. You will by process, seem to call us afresh into the kings Bench, when we appear, your action will bear no lawful plea against us, you accuse us hotly (M. Howlet) but as good an Attorney, or proctor, and solicitor, or man of law, and counselor, as you are taken to be in the Popes cause, you show and prove nothing against us in God's or the Princes court, we thank God. Ye suppose altogether: for you say, by our adversaries confession, that is for one part: But we say, you say as ye are wont, that is untruly, for your Church and religion, as they be at this day, are not of a thousand years antiquity. Some part of your corruptions may be so old, we deny it not, some part again are of later time. And heresies, we tell you out of Tertullian, doth not Newnesse so much argue, as Truth: whatsoever savoreth against the truth, that shall be heresy, even old Custom, (saith he.) Again, your Jesuits, a new order of Religion, instituted about forty years ago, or such such a thing, seem among us at this day, to be your greatest pillars and stays, in this your new and strange proceeding, and we here can scarcely yet well tell, what their religion is, nor where it is grounded, so lately, though suddēlie come they among us: but upon an obscure fellow, & your Pope, Paul the third, you tell us is their foundation. And in deed your Popish religion is such a confused Chaos, and heap, or a hotche potche, that we cannot tell certainly what to make of it, nor where to fetch a proper and full sum of the Popish doctrine at this day, and a confession of your faith: For, leaving the Scriptures to be the rule of your faith, and coining us still so many new Articles, under the name of unwritten verities, traditions, the Church, &c. Which the first and ancient Apostolic Church was ignorant of; and referring us for all to your Popes breast. To be plain, we can find no footing.

You take a similitude from a wise noble man, and quiet possession of his Baronie many ages. Be as wise as ye may be, yet a similitude and example of a meaner and a more base and vile person than a Noble man, of a Barn (M. Howlet) rather than a Baronie, might fitlier serve to compare so corrupt a Church, and rotten religion withal, as is Popery and the Popish Church: But we must take such as you offer us. Your Prelates of the Clergy that rule the Church, are Lord's even over God's heritage, they are Barons, they must needs have a Baronie. No marvel, therefore though in respect of thē and their using of the Church, ye liken it to a Baronie of a Noble man that hath many ages held the same in quiet possession: Or if you speak of the whole Catholic Church, in respect of the unholy holiness of the Pope of Rome's fatherhood, the matter is brought to a higher degree then a Noble man: he is called our Lord God the Pope. For quiet possession, in deed I grant ye held that ye had in possession very quietly, & made as sure as you could, not to be vnquieted in your Palaces. But a stronger, thanks be to god, came upon you, & your god & Prince to, I mean the Pope & Satan, & overcame you, & took away your armor, wherein you trusted, &c. For the unfitness of your similitude, I tell you first, that if you liken yourselves to a Noble man, you must then liken the true Church to another's, and not to the Noble man's own Baronie: for that we hold agreeable to the Scriptures, that the Church so likened, can be called no man's, but God's or Christ's Baronie only. In title of lande Sir, &c. where prescription of time beareth great sway; many ages of quiet possession, be a great stay to Noble men's Baronies, or others holds, especially where evidence and writings by sundry casualities may be missing. In religion, (that I may give a further taste of your vnlikelie likelihood, and improper example) the case is nothing like: For, authority of religion, is not to be esteemed by time, saith one, That which is true, is not too late. And y ^t good father again saith: y ^e heathē say, That that is first, cannot be false. As though antiquity & old custom may prejudice the truth: But (M. Howlet) in going no higher for the age of your religion thē a 1000. years, and talking to us of quiet possessiō of many ages since that time, we answer you first that our religion was above 500. year old before yours came into the world, or your Pope were hatched, supposing you kept quiet possession, as you pretend now a 1000. years. For we fetch ours from Christ and his Apostles, who had lawful possession of the Baronie ye talk of, above half a 1000. years before you came to possession thereof. And if you will mark well: those half thousand years before, were the better, and more free from forgery and corruption, and therefore would be more regarded.

But now I pray you tell us how you entered into possessiō of y ^e Catholic Church, a thousand years ago. For by inheritance once, we deny that it came unto you or by descent. If there may be any lawful conueighance thought of; the best 〈◊〉 I see ye can with any probability allege, for the possession that your Clergy ever had of this Baronie, meaning thereby the true Church of Christ, was, that they held the same but as Tenaunts, and that tenants at will too, standing upon their good behavior, to continue, or to be cast out. The Noble man himself. the only Lord and Baron, that I may so speak of this Baronie: is alive, & his Baronie only may the true Church be called. If you mean that, in this similitude: neither yours nor any mortal man's besides. Howeuer therefore you have holden the Catholic Church that way, you have been but too long unjust possessors, and so lost you nothing that was your own, when upon misbehavior you were by God's lawful Minister our dreead Sovereign therein, thrust out of possession of this true Church here: as you were once before within man's remembrance about xl. years since. So then, this Baronie the Church here, is now the second time, to God's glory, and our inestimable benefit, lawfully taken from you: and you being dispossessed thereof, it is restored or returned home to Jesus Christ the only true owner, Noble man, heir, and 〈◊〉 if ye will, of this Baronie. The same, through the just judgment of God, vpō you for your too too intolerable usage, is taken from you, and by his infinite wisdom let out to other 〈◊〉 , who upon their good behavior also, and no otherwise hold the same of him, who is bound herein, to no men's persons, place, Sea, &c. You are the first I confess, the more to your reproach, that infeaffed the Pope and his Clergy, into the titles and right that are proper to God and Jesus Christ in his spiritual kingdom, City, House, Vineyard, or Baronie, if you like y ^t best. Yea you have proceeded thus far, that the Pope having taken possession, seemeth to challenge the bestowing of this Baronie, on whom it pleaseth him, to hold of himself in capite. Is it not much that you write that the Pope and Christ make one Consitory, so as (sin except) the Pope may as it were, do all things y ^t god can do, he and he alone, hath fullness of power, he can dispence above the law who beareth the person not of a pure man, but of the true God upon earth: so that what is done by the authority of the Pope, is said to be done by the authority of God, &c.

I leave here to put you in remembrance of Shilo, the temple of the Lord, the temple of the Lord, Jerusalem, &c. in the old Testament. May it please you to remember the parable of the wicked husbandmen in the Gospel, to whom the Vineyarde was let out, and what Christ pronounced against them to their hurt, for taking the inheritance into their own hands, keeping possession thereof as it had been theirs, without yielding fruit to the owner. To be plain, this is fearful for both you and us to remember, they to whom Christ spake, being builders, refused the head corner stone. What came there of y ^t : What gained they by it: Put case your privileges & titles were as good as theirs, and ye had the highest offices in Christ's Church in deed: He by his eternal providence taking from you this Vineyarde or baronie, and letting it forth to other Husbandmen, doth you herein no injury. Again, (M. Howlet) because you talk of a Noble man and his baronie, remember well what befell those Citizens, that after the Noble man was gone into a far country, yet to come again, sent an Embassage after him, saying: We will not have this man to reign over us. But he again said, at his return, which surely will be: Those mine enemies which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither and slay them before me. These words are so plain, as it booteth you not for the avoiding thereof, and your excuse to allege: that you say not so. He speaketh of the will and deed. Again you know what the Psalm saith, The fool hath said in his heart, there is no GOD. No cavil will serve, all excuse and pretence is put to silence, before this Noble man, of whom I talk. This way may you more 〈◊〉 , and with better religion and conscience, yea, and more profit also apply your Simile. I pray God give both you and us grace by these examples to be warned, and in time to take heed to our selves.

But leaving the general account thereof to God and to Christ's return thereto: further then, y ^t you are as we all, bound to render account here to gods substitute, as ye call the Prince and civil Magistrate, if ye or we be in the mean while called. Let us stand upon this point now that you say: you have held the possession of the Catholic Church in England for this thousand years, &c. In calculating y ^e time, I perceive partly what you mean, you hold from Pope Gregory the great, a Roman Monk, who sent hither Agustine a Monk also, called of some the Apostle of England, as also Gregory is of some, applying this Apostolic sentence to him. If he be not an Apostle to other, yet is he to us English men, &c. According to this computation M. Harding some where writeth: Thus the faith hath continued in this lande among the English people, from the fourteenth yere of the reign of Maurice the Emperor, almost these thousand years. Here is the foundation of your thousand years possession, & of the English Catholic Church, ye talk of. Now what titles soever be ascribed to these Monks, & in what price soever they be with the Papists, we deny them to have been the first planters of the true Christian faith in this lande, and utterly unworthy to be therefore called the Apostles of England: Of one and the greater it is said, he was the last of the good, and the first of the bad Popes. The others entrance was with such pride and disdain, and his usage such as made the Bishops of this lande, not to doubt only whether to receive him, but upon trial to refuse him as no man of God. Superstitions might here be much advanced by this Pope, and his Archbishop, and so might they be fit pillars for the Popish Church to stay upon. But Christ's true, and sincere religion gained nothing by that. Briefly, if by the Catholic Church, which you say you held possession of, so long and many years here, as of your Baronie, you mean Christ's true Church and spouse, because the same is his Baronie and not yours: for your injurious sacrilege you are 〈◊〉 thrust out of possession. If you mean y ^t Church to be like a Baronie, so many years here possessed of you, that we call at this day the Popish Church: then, as we have taken no possession thereof, so because there is no good and sufficient warrant in our heavenly kings records, for the erecting of any such Baronie as holdeth of the Pope of Rome in capite, as this your Baronie doth. And this Baronic besides hath been found greatly prejudicial & hurtful not only in spiritual matters to our heavenly king & his spiritualkingdom, but in civil policy also to our dread Sovereigns; the Noble Kings & Queens of this land: good & great cause both for y ^t one respect & the other hath there been, & is, of the dissolving of this Popish Baronie in this Realm. There can no such Tenure be justly borne in this lande, that holdeth of the Pope in Capite. There is of your side (M. Howlet) that writeth you hold in capite of the Pope: Whereupon you are justly retected hence, this is none of his kingdom. If you will needs have such a Baronie so holding in Capite, you must avoid hence, and go dwell in his kingdom and Dominions. And so you do, and as seemeth are agreed and at a point: for the Pope hath now of late erected Nurceries to bring up his English fugitive wards in, you call them Seminaries: In that court have you your Officers accordingly, and your rules and orders to be guided by, you have made a very evil change, if ye can consider it well: heereuppon possible, being weary you would fain come home again into this lande: But you would not change the Tenure of the Pope in Capite, which you must do, or else the other is not granted you, advise better of the matter.

You plain of our intrusion upon you without evidence. Our evidence is better then ever you 〈◊◊〉 to show, or well to avoid: we, and all the world see, your evidence is little worth, as which is grounded on man, and maintained with violence, and force, or with enticing speech of man's wisdom, where that faileth, as now here, thanks be to God therefore. Our evidence are The Scriptures, and the written word of God, say you as long as you will, It is the Heretics evidence: We are assured that in God's matters, it is the best evidence that can be shown, and the evidence of the Spirit, or, of the holy Ghost, who is the Author of the Scriptures, We follow not deceivable fables cunningly and colourably set out, but a most sure word of the Prophets, whereunto we take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in our hearts, &c. As blessed Peter speaketh: you need not therefore cry out of Ryot. This word Ryot, you think serveth your allusion pretily: But you need not shritch and cry out so loud, especially in her Majesty's ears, quieter dealing might serve: Ye complain of the wrong, which is none, you call for trial of the title: After you have let fall your Action, and your matter is come to A Non Sute, you tell of lawful pleading, and paint out your margin with Lawelesse proceeding, which is all and wholly of your side. All these be but your Rhetorical flowers: Your Similitude, and example, for all this flourishe and a do, proveth little or nothing. The Plea hath been lawfully entered, even here a great while since, your title hath been not only seen and perused, but well weighed and tried, and after all your writings seen, and what ever else you can say for yourselves, even till you were weary, and gave over the other part also, being indifferently heard, their proofs alleged, seen, and weighed, Definitive sentence', hath upon great deliberation been given against you, of God by his word, and the same ratified by the highest authority, and in the highest Court upon Earth in this lande, and there Inrould 〈◊〉 Possession here quietly delivered and taken: which, thanks be to God and her Majesty, we likewise peaceably hold at this day, so that you may leave your tragical crying out of the matter. Disputation, when it was offered and required, was of your part refused, what would you more; It seemeth they remain the same men still, else would they be heard of. In another place of your Epistle Dedicatorie before, commending yourselves, and seeking to get grace at the States hands you say, you delivered us this Realm, that is no violent taking, whether only words and forgery be of our side or yours, let the word of God be judge, and so many as can and list to judge thereby, between us both. And thus much of your Similitude or example, taken from A Noble man and his Baronie, your long possession of the Catholic Church, and your title, and right pretended thereto.

You brag after this of diverse offers, of late, since your new persecution, as it pleaseth you to write, made unto us with great ods. Ye charge us that we are entered into possession without trial of the title, that we have thrust you out before sentence or proof, and yet both (as I say) have past: You cry out of the riot, you complain of the wrong, ye desire that the matter may come to lawful pleading. &c. And yet here again you say: ye pretend not thereby any recovery of your losses: for that you suppose to be impossible. Wherefore make you such stir and busy ado then; why cry you out so loud in her Majesty's ears; why plain you; I take it that the loss of your Baronie, your Catholic Church in England, as you cal it, that ye so many years quietly possessed, is your greatest loss, & y ^t which grieveth you most, & maketh you to howl & scriche. If you suppose it be impossible to recover it: If you pretend not any recovery of your losses, make then less a do, about that which ye take to be in so desperate a case: but it is hard trusting of you: for the conceit ye have of the recovery of your losses, maketh you so importune and forward; say and pretend what ye will; you pretend the justifying of your cause: But if you recover not your Baronie, and other your losses, before you be able to justify your cause, it will be a great while to that day: And we shall be sure to hold a long term. Because your side found the State and people very desirous of alteration of religion at her Majesty's first enteraunce to the crown, & that swaied mightily against you, in so much as upon disputation, & conference of those of both religions, by the marueylous providence of almighty God, and her Majesty's godly affection, singular wisdom, and dexterity, to whom over and above the rest, we are in this case, passingly beholding; your religion 〈◊〉 out of the doors, was sent packing, and the true religion of Christ restored. You think that, after long profession now of the Gospel here, they will likewise loath the heavenly Manna, and wax weary thereof, and be desirous to go back again to the flesh potts of Egypt, &c that I may so speak. It is possible that in your trotting up and down, here upon your Popes messages, ye may have found some bent but too much that way, and thereby coniecturing, ye set down in your books of accounts, thousands: But ye may, and I trust well in GOD, shall be deceived, in your expectation and reckoning as ye hitherto have been. And because Allen, one of your mates, in his Apology, even now sent over, still calling for Disputation, seemeth to ground much upon this Philosophical hope or guess rather, that is, takē from worldly wisdom, and experience only: I will give this short answer to you both herein: Though you may find the common people, but to movable and inconstant, commonly to speak: Yet is not the case then, and now alike: for first, sir: As truth and falsehood be contrary, so be the operations of them, both in men far different; and mighty and effectual is the force of the Holy Ghost, in his heavenly truth, and in their hearts in whom he stirreth up a love, and liking thereof, so that man's nature it self is quite altered thereby, rather then any lothsomnesse, or weariness is gathered. Again, sir, the greatest stay of your religion here, was thē taken away by the change of the prince: Her Majesty, y ^t thē first restored y ^t public exercise of religion here, liveth, God be thanked, and long may she live. None of you have seen any such in clination to Alteration, in her Majesty's constant settled mind, as you in fancte imagine: besides this, her Majesty's 〈◊〉 , most mild, and quiet government, in the time of y ^e Gospel (to all our great comforts) doth not procure nor deserve any such thing at her faithful subjects hands, nay besides duty, this dealing purchaseth the contrary, and keepeth the subjects in merueylous contentment commonly, and liking; where as the intolerable yoke and insupportable burden, that you put upon this lande, more then hailed wertsomnesse, and desire of alteration, in the time of superstition. When you talk of your new persecution, if you mean thereby the committing of such to ward, as of late came from the Pope, & Rome, for their seditious attempts here in England, or the repressing of the violent rebellion against her Maiestte, and the State in Ireland, we answer y ^t ye might better have sit still like good Christians, & true hearted Englishmen and subjects, or have chosen an honester course, then by rebellion & treason, so to have troubled the peaceable state of 〈◊〉 Church and Realm, provoking and enforcing her Majesty, (who beareth not the sword for naught) to draw out the same, to cross and stay your violent disorders. You offer to enter by sedirion, her Majesty's dominions violently: You offer to poison and corrupt, the minds of the good and simple subjects. This, and such offers of yours, we are too well acquainted withal, other your offers, and odds, we commonly know no more of, then you report unto us: you pretend not by your offers, any recovery of lofses, &c. (If they be any) who put you to them, but yourselves; that will needs run into them headlong. You tell what you pretended not, I would you had in time, as well told what your pretence and meaning was, that it might have been with less ado prevented; you have long hoped after a day, ye thought it had been now come: But as God would, you hope without your hope, your end is to justify your cause. Whervpō the honor of god depēdeath. If God's honor depēded on the justifying of your cause, it should hang but upon a weak twined thread, but he hath not put it into your hands sirs, it is better grounded and stayed than so. There is no profession at this day in Christendom, wherein God is more dishonored thē in yours: Ye tell us, ye know ye cannot be vanquished, ye tell us also of our weakness, a 〈◊〉 , showing greater pride thē modest wisdom; You know more of yourselves then all the world doth besides; ye are deeply seen in your own cause: Either you never felt, or never well considered the forces of your adversaries, at least you are blind, and thereby cannot well judge of them: As God be thanked you gain little now a days, where upon usurpation you violently invade lawful princes countries, with sword, upon confidence of the Popes authority that way; God so mightily defending and maintaining his servants & ministers, Princes and civil Magistrates, and looking with a watchful eye to his Institution and ordinance. So gain you as little or less the other way because you stay altogether upon Sand, upon flesh, wordly policy, man, &c. And the weapons of our warfare; are not carnal but mighty, Yet through God to cast down holds, &c, Ours is the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God: lively and mighty in operation, and sharper than any two edged sword 〈◊〉 through, even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, and of the joints and the marrowe, and is a descerner of the thoughts & the entents of the heart. &c. Your Fortes are not imprennable, nay they fall of thenselves and molder away. They are weak, They are rotten, your walls be but of Broune paper, The best and surest fort in this that ye call your new persecution, was in Ireland, wherein (after rebelliō there stirred up by you) ye much trusted. That, God be thanked through his blessing was by her Majesty's provident care & forces, soon destroyed, &c. If the secular arm, and forces fail you, if fire and fagot be taken out of your hands, or your cōsuming flames quenched, ye can long hold in no place, God have the glory, for both taking those weapons, from you, and so gloriously by his heavenly Gospel triumphing over you in these latter days, & among other princes: let her majesty our dread sovereign have her singular and due commendation in this work, as God's special minister to all true englishmens unspeakable comfort, we have had good trial of you by experience, and that maketh you to bring the authority of Kings, and other under the pope, to be at his devotion, but all in vain: for ye resist against God and his eternal truth; you should do well not to boast nor triumph before the victory, you know how the king of Israel answered y ^e proud threat of Benhadad y ^e king sometime of the Syrians. Let not him (saith he) that girdeth his harnes boast, himself, as he that putteth it off.

YOU tell further of means made, of challenges, petitions, writing, disputing, prohibitiō, & I wot not what, neither truly nor to purpose greatly (writing upon the occasion of challenge at Paul's Cross, that ye mention) hath since given your side such a wound as I think you will never be able to recover it. Notwithstanding any prohibition of her majesties by proclamation &c, ye can and do write. print, publish, and scatter your books and seditious libels still although with little vantage, and I hope shall with less still every day then other, for now you begin to take in hand not so much to improve our religion, or to prove your own, as to inveigh against the civil state, to confute her Majesty's laws, Acts of Parliament, proclamations &c. These be fit arguments for your wise politic head to treat of. Such is the respect ye have to her majesty, y ^e state & your duty of obedience herein. Think not (M, Howlet) they be afraid of you without all cause now, that when the time was, if ever, offered your side disputation, which your men then refused, as I said howe and upon what occasion not they only but her Majesty, the state, and honorable here, can very well tell, the thing was not done in hucker mucker. It seemeth now above twenty years after that time out of season to crave disputation: yet tell me I pray you (M. Howlet ) one thing, whether, if your request and your fellows were granted of Disputation before her Majesty, or such as her highness should please to appointe thereto, if it should so fall out, by God's providence, that ye should take a fair fall in the wrestle at your adversaries hands, her majesty or the other appointed, giving sentence against you, would ye acknowledge ye had a fall, no nor yet that ye were foiled, would ye yield and give over your romish profession; it is no parte of your meaning, I fear me you would plain of disorder, and want of indifferency and competent judges, &c. Some thing or other you would find to shift of the matter, as ye did in the former conference, would ye, or would ye not; What gained you by that; you say, You know you cannot be vanquished herein, you make no doubt but that God's truth is clear on your side. Indeed there is the matter; it is easier to cast you down than to stop your mouths: If ye cannot dispute, yet can you brawl and wrangle; that is not hard to be done, it is an art easily learned among you, For disputation, sirs, to leave the disputation in the happy days of her majesties reign and other: long ago, to note only one time, were they not of our side, that in convocation in queen Mary's days disputed with the greatest clerks of your side, when your men ruffled and ruled the roast; was not the like again done at Oxenford by those reverend fathers of our side which never came thence after, but sealed in your university, after disputation that truth with their bloods, which they had before preached and taught, why set you us not out these disputations truly, that the world may see them; You are ashamed, as seemeth, Seeing you write and printe daily, If God's truth be so clear on your side, Why have ye not all this while, set it us down in steed of your seditious pāphlets; Or why do ye not yet set it us down in your books ye send so fast over among us? containing in manner now a days nothing but braules, grēning, groining & snarring against the state, and her 〈◊〉 wholesome laws, proclamations &c, for repressing of popery, superstition, seditious and rebellious usage and dealing, that we might have some fit matter for our profession to answer more than hath been already seen, weighed and answered, furbushing now and then up as hādsomely as you can your rusty stuff, you give us but words only without matter, your coin that carrieth the Popes mark being brought to the touch and waightes, is by long and often trial found to be a counterfaited coin, in steed of good silver it is known to be baser than copper, when we weigh and try by God's truth, that you would have us takefor good gold, in all the offers ye make us, we find nothing but dross. Let us not bring guileful balances (saith your cannon Law out of Jerome ) where to weigh that we will after our own pleasure, saying this is heavy, this is light, but let us bring gods balance of holy scriptures as out of the Lord's treasures, and let us therein weigh what is heavier. &c. Your reasons, in sumine thus waied, are nothing but colorable words and show, which in this clear light of the Gospel, will not satisfy nor serve. In vain therefore seemeth to be your petition, your replication, explanation, supplication, your earnest urging by friendship, by request, by letters to diverse preachers, &c. which I think is as false as that you report here, of the dealing therein, with the Bishop of London, and thereupon you did well to put it in that parenthesis (Ifye be not deceived) As in little or nothing ye be otherwise. You forget greatly M. Howlet with whom you deal, and to whom you write: You make great vauntes, and in words offer much, you perform in deed nothing. In your margin is quoted An humble demand of disputation. You bring us that forth often; we know this gear so well at the first sight now, as we cannot easily be deceived. It is not the setting on of a fair gloss or glossing the matter, that will now serve. Is the truth clear on your side; Why call you it in controversy then; why so earnestly demand and seek you for disputation for resolution of men's doubts, &c. If ye demand conference for your satisfaction, or to resolve your doubts; you have not been refused, nay you have been and are still offered it, ye are sought upon, and the best of your side here refuse it. That may be privately done, if that be your end, and some good come thereof.

But ye demand public disputation, ye are earnest therein ye demand it again and again: what is the reason; Why would you so fain have public disputation; There must be some honest and necessary end alleged, there must be also by her 〈◊〉 appointmente, some Moderators, and some order lawfully to proceed therein First, have you talked with the rest of your side; are ye all ageed upon the suit to her Majesty, humbly to desire public disputations; Next, if this be the ende of disputation (as you say) for the trial of God's truth, that men's doubts may be resolved, most necessary for you all, to your eternal salvation? Will ye then being required: yield to God's truth when your doubts shall be resolved, and sufficiently resolved by the Scriptures, and y ^t in the judgment of her 〈◊〉 , who by God's appointment hath the moderating of the whole in this realm. And in the judgment of the State here: will you of that side, not stand any longer obstinate in your former opinions, but give over as God's faithful servants to his truth & become professors of the Gospel of Christ, abjuring all erroneous, and Popish fancies; Rearing your religion out of God's holy book, the sacred scriptures, directing & ruling your consciences thereby; On the other side again, will you, as honest dutiful Subjects, renouncing all foreign power of Prelate, Prince, or Potentate whatsoever, betake yourselves hence forward to be governed by her Majesty, and the temporal laws of this lande, and such Statutes, as for the good and peaceable guiding thereof be by her Majesty, & the State, made & agreed upon in the high court of 〈◊〉 , according to the order of this Realm? What say you to this condition; I ask you because I am in doubt, whether you will in the ende stand to the resolution and judgment of her Majesty, & the State herein. Nor to any in deed but unto your Pope, & yourselves, and yet had ye need I tell you, resolve & be resolved in this point before you make suit to her majesty, & so earnest suit to have public disputation, as whereupon your eternal salvation dependeth, &c. And to this point answer hardly in your next writing: for in this Epistle DEDICATORIE, your words hitherto, seem to employ some cōtradictiō in this matter, or else your suit seemeth, if not hollowly, yet cunningly made to your vantage, but prejudicial, and perilous to this quiet and peaceable state, settled now above these xxii. years together in this kind of government, of rejecting the authority of the Pope of Rome, and Popish religion, and receiving the profession of the Gospel, and acknowledging her Majesty's Royal sovereignty over all States and degrees: All which is well and sufficiently warranted, and maintained, by the express testimony of God's holy word, and the wholesome laws of this Realm, as hath been and is still both for the one & the other by proof published to the view of all the world. You (M. Howlet ) and your late start up Jesuits, and other English Romanists, or Rhemistes, to be plain with you, are too weak in the shoulders (God have the glory) to take in hand by disputation, or otherwise to undermine or shake this Godly State, or to prove your own cause good. Ye are but princockes and babes for the most part, in comparison of those of your side aforetime, that stood in the front of the battle, whose force yet God be thanked, have been well tried and met with all. It is unto you a hard 〈◊〉 of the decay, and utter ruin shortly to fall upon your huge Antichristian kingdom, as that was an after demonstration in the Poet Naeuius, that Tully mentioneth: when new Orators, foolish young men arise and take in hand the administration of the common wealth, who were wont so to brag of gray hairs, old men, &c. Yea, 〈◊〉 is that, that hath already been a great part of the undoing ofit on your behalfes. Young men (I speak not to reproach age, nor to touche towardly youth) may have good heads, fresh memory, quick sight, sharp wit, ioly art, and prompt and ready tongues, and words at will: which things if they be well applied, wherein is all, have their commendation as in young men: But in heavenly matters God's truth revealed in his written word, his fear, a settled understanding and judgment, framed by God's holy spirit, joined with simplicity and sincerity in Christ's religion, and a reverent humble mind to Godwarde, directed always by the sacred Scriptures, in young or old, are a great deal more worth, and yet by your vaunt, you seem to trust much to the other, and thereupon are you so earnest for disputation. Of your vain Scholastical disputations and arguments pro & contra, that can make quidlibet ex quolibet, or as we speak Make men believe that the Moon is made of green cheese: or that the Crowe is white by your sophistry. The Church of God, to the hurt thereof hath had too great experience afore time, and the faithful at this day see but too much of this stuff in your subtle Doctor Scotus, your Angelical Doctors Quodlibetal questions, and in numbers of books of that stamp.

We have been faithfully warned by the holy ghost to take heed of admitting that kind of dealing, a great while since, namely in Saint Paul's Epistles to Timothy. And in deed by trial we find daily that by wrangling, jangling, and vain disputiug, the truth commonly goeth to wrack and is lost, besides other inconveniences that arise thereby: There be other means to try out the truth by, then this: This kind of exercise, unless it be very soberly kept, and used with great moderation is very dangerous in matters of divinity. And yet God be thanked for his gifts you may be and are even in this exercise matcheable, and to be matched, if need were, with your equals here at home. You that make these great brags, were but yesterday to talk of in Oxeford, you have left your fellows and your betters too, behind you in Oxeford, Cābrige, & abroad also; if you will give other, besides yourselves, leave to judge: but let us hear what you tell us more of y ^e particulars: for you offer also of your liberality two other ways of dealing besides public disputation. These are your words.

YEE talk unto us of three ways of conference both jointly and severally, as ye speak, but all must be had in words and speech. Flying and flowing words are rife, with Dratours, & Logicians, there profession requireth it: but how well soever you have heretofore sped by words in dispute or persuasion, ye are not yet come to that value, that with Caesar ye may say: veni, vidi, vici, as though all were in your hands, and your own. Ye talk of brief scholastical arguments, where may a man seek them, where shall we find them: Your authors reasons that you make so great account of, show very little skill in Logic, what ever the matter be, and yet there seemeth to have been the proper place where that cunning, if there had been any, should have be shown. We wonder in what School you or he learned to frame the maimed arguments, y ^e weak and sclender reasons ye set us down, which leave out necessary proofs of things in controversy, & unnecessarily 〈◊〉 in proving things not in controversy. This argueth poor skill in the art of disputing. Strengthen your weak arguments, that are set down in this discourse whereof ye make so great account. Of his nine reasons, make us of all but one good, sound, and substantial brief scholastical argument, to make us see our own weakness, &c. as you speak. It is an easy matter to convince them y ^e are your own men already: But reprove our doctrine, or prove your own, to our shame and confusion once. Let it be your labor (M. Howlet ) to ease your friend, if you will, that brag us so greatly of disputation and scholastical arguments: But sir, leave out I pray you Paralogismes, leave captious arguments, that is, 〈◊〉 not you 〈◊〉 Catholics, set us down counterfeit principles agreeing with your name and matter, and so reason 〈◊〉 supposittons, quite false, and 〈◊〉 grounded: do not when you make an argument, occupy yourself in prouyng, that we deny not, and passing over without proof, that we deny, which I admonish you of afore hand, because it is your Authors common manner, in his unreasonable Reasons, set us down in his discourse: howe Scholasticallie, or like a Disputer, if you know not: Let Aristotle's Elenchs tell you: But I say, mende these faules, or brag not of your Scholastical arguments, which are full of faults.

2 Your seconde way of conference, is continual speech, wherein like a babbling Orator, you will seem so to excel, thinking that you have marueylous great vauntage of all the world besides, that ye dare give your adversaries leave to answer you either presently, or upon study: But sir, ye had not need to stay upon your three places, taken out of the first book of Aristotle's Rhetoric, wherewith, as with flowers, ye decke this your Epistle dedicatorie to her Majesty. You may be better seen in Aristotle's Rhetoric, that is (as seems) you make of it in cunning of pretty words and sentences, to delight and persuade withal, then in God's book, that is: in heavenly matters and things appertaining to conscience. But if you will look no further of, look at least on your foul talons, and be not proud of a Peacocks tail. A man would have thought, that your dainty or quaize stomach, should not well digest long speech, that could so evil brook the godly Sermons made at the public fast at Stamforde, the last Summer: that ye lothed the length of them, only upon a hearsay, insomuch, that ye imagine, the continual speech, to have lasted ten or twelve hours together. Whereas the longest Sermon then made, was (as I understand) two hours and a half, or somewhat above, in an extraordinary Exercise. You say of them with a disliking and untruly also, that they have a desire to hear themselves speak, ten or twelve hours together. These are your Rhetoric terms, I could use another word, as you deserve, but I forbear. Here now, like a Declaymer, or an Orator, you would have a continual speech, to be allotted out, tell howe many hours together you desire to hear yourselves speak, or howe long ye will declaim, that the certain space may be considered of them, to whom it doth appertain. In the mean space: Thus marking things with your chalk and cole, as they say, you allow, and condemn as pleaseth you, sometimes as it were Chilo, or as Menelaus in Homer. The Lacedemonians short speech, seemeth to like you: sometimes like the Ionians or Battus, you love to have your tongue run at randon pleasurably: You are the Newe Orators, &c. that I spake of before.

3 From Rhetoric, and Logic, you come at length to the holy exercise of religion: For the last of your three ways, not of writing, but of talk still, is preaching. That usual and ordinary exercise, is taken up but of late, as newly begun among you, by your new religious Jesuits: As I take it, or else taken from the beggarly Friars. I pray you 〈◊〉 often, and howe usually do seculare Priests use to preach beyond the Seas, that for being to bold over you, I ask you nothing of the matter ye preach of, wherein you are too profane; As you measure other men, so to measure yourselves, by your own foot, shall we say that when you would dispute, use continual speech, or preach before her Majesty, &c. It is for a desire you have to hear yourselves speak, &c A dumb masking Mass secretly said, as your Priests occupation, to blaspheme God in, is a meeter exercise for you & your fellows: If you be 〈◊〉 & shaven, as it may be, you be but some Schoolmaster: But for preaching sir, pulpittes serve not for Orators here now a days, neither be her Majesty's ears, acquainted to hear blasphemies out of pulpits, nor yet invectives. What we have to hope, or look for from you; if you may get into pulpits, is not hard to guess. Your Sorbonne, or the like, is a fitter place for scoulding 〈◊〉 . Pulpits, thanks be to God, are appointed to better, and more religious uses among us: which have been, and are too badly profaned, by those of your side.

But forward; as boasters and braggers, be not always the greatest doers, when it cometh to the pushe: so 〈◊〉 . Howlet, you show yourself a very cowardly Thraso, that even in the beginning, after so great brags and suit for combat, before you perform anything, you take so great care for your person and safety, and for your fellows also: for you will needs condition with your dread and liege Sovereign, and gracious Prince, and ours, before you will appear before her highness, you will not come hither I perceive upon the gage of your heads, if ye be vanquished, ye will not give them for washing, and yet our men were brought to your disputation, as Prisoners, and knew before what should become of thē after: What; are all your fair flattering speeches. &c. come to this now; evē now you were most humbly on your knees, asking at her Majesty's hands, disputatiō. All I perceive is but Crocodyles tears, as the proverb is. You brage before of your patient obedience in doctrine and demeamour, where is that now; here you demand a safe conduct, before you will come into your Princes power and presence, A token of an evil conscience: What have you done man; that you are so afraid of her Majesty, that you dare not come home into your native Country, to your natural Prince, and Mother, as ye pretend in speech, without good warrant for your safety. This is a strange and unwonted kind of dealing, of good and honest subjects, with their Sovereigns and Princes. Her Majesty is upright, she will do you no wrong, she is compassionable, and merciful also: you confess it, why do you not put yourself into her gracious 〈◊〉 hands; Is this a loving and dutiful childes dealing, with his natural Mother; Is this your Catholic obedience in deed; towards our Queen and Prince, when she commandeth you to come home; who when you list yourselves, cannot by any prohibition be kept hence: Here here M. Howlet, cometh in fitly the trial of conscience, you talked of afore. Here cometh in the place of scripture, for you to consider of, y ^t I take you cited out of S. John before: If our heart condemn us, God is greater then our heart, and knoweth all things. Here in sum cometh in the doctrine of Obedience to Princes, for conscience sake, as to God himself &c. That you before said your Mother, the Catholic Church together with the Apostle, teacheth her children. If you be a natural child and not a bastard, show yourself now, and hear when you are called: For a child honoreth Father and Mother: where is this honor, reverence, love, duty; &c. All is to seek: you mind not to come before her Majesty, but upon sure ground once. You can provide for one, I perceive, to keep yourself out of gunne shot, you will be a right Thraso, and set yourself behind rather, then be in the front, or forewarde, when there is any danger to your person, you will abide no brunt by your will: you love to talk of the matter, but it shall be a loofe, and with condition: What I say; Be not too cowardely, and too fearful, do somewhat like to that ye talk, Some deal answer your hie words, else all the world will cry shame on you, that so instantly crave disputation, as a Suter for it, and then will not vouchsafe to come to it, but upon further warrant from your Prince. Her Majesty hath pardoned as great faults as you have committed. Be sorry in deed for former offense, and put yourself at least into her merciful hands to whom you so smoothely write. I pray God I spend not words upon you in vain, I am in doubt it is no parte of your meaning, openly to come home, except you may have proclamation or letters patēts or some such stay for your safety. This is y ^e testimony & terror of an evil conscience, you must for your safety have her majesties safe conduct in as ample manner as it was offered to those of our side by the council of Trent. A high point wherein there is great reason and wisdom sure, that the Pope and Popish Bishops being strangers and our mortal enemies, who not themselves only break all faith and promise, but teach and persuade princes and all other to do the like, with those of contrary religion, whō they call heretics; that these men I say, should have as great credit with englishmen in her majesties dominions, as her self (who is our natural and most honorable loving Princesse and Queen) shall have with her english subjects? where at can you blush. M. Howlet. y ^t dare thus impudently write to our dread sovereign. Me thinketh it should have made pen, ynck, paper and all, to have blushed, if there had been any blushing in them; we refused to accept that offer frō the Pope & his council of Trent. Great reason M. Howlet & answered why, a good while since: But you will not refuse her majesties warrant for your safety. I am ashamed, though you be not, of your ouergrosse comparison. Is the case alike; you say you would have her majesties only word set down unto you, in no ampler manner, then the Council of Trent made the safe conduct to your adversaries. Those that you call your adversaries; to whom your Popes bull or safe conduct, as you call it, was directed by name, or with whom it had principally to deal, were protestant or Gospelling Kings, Princes, states, or public persons, commonly if any of that profession, rather then private and obscure persons, such as you and we are; who without leave of superiors, could not go thither, namely out of England. It is said your Popes safe conducte was that the liberty of coming to that council, pertained but to them only of our men, that would repent and return to the bosom of your church, whereof he that in english list to see more, let him read the Defense of the Apology will you now accept her majesties offer in like manner on this churches behalf; ye say you desire it in no ampler manner than the counsel of Trent made the safe conduct to your adversaries. Whether it were the councils safe conduct, & the Popes Legates, or the Pope of Rome's himself, who summoned the council, or which of the 3. Popes it was, under whom that council was, Al is one, He was, and needs must be the judge in the Council, who is the adversary parte, and hath himself to answer and yet the Law is, that he that is chief in jurisdiction, ought not to give judgment to or for himself. Lastly, sir, upon whose safe conduct soever our side had come to Trent Council, they had been required, either to have yielded when they had come and conformed themselves, or to have been excom municated, accursed, and condemned for their labor. Tell us whether you list to come hither on like condition. Thus writeth Harding your own man of going to the Council of Trent. In deed (saith he) had ye gone thither your heresies had been confuted, yourselves required to yield, and to conform you, to the Catholik church, or else you had been Anathematized, accursed & condemned. For that was the foundation and condition of the safe conduct, which was never willingly granted as seemeth, but extorted by the Germans importunity, the fathers of 〈◊〉 Council hoping as they pretended their recovery and return to their Catholic religion; wherein they were deceived. And this safe conduct was first granted not by the Council under Pope Paul the third, but under Julius the third, his successor after many sessions and years passed too, as seemeth: and repeated by the Council under Pius the fourth many years after again. Now that the foundation and purport and meaning of this safe conduct, that. M. Howlet here mentioneth may appear and be the better known to the Reader; I set down these words following as they were propounded in the first session under Pius the fourth, immediately before the safe conduct granted to the Germans in the general congregation: We have not thought it also to be amiss to cal to reap̄tāce all those that are fallen into any heresies and are yet entangled therein, with a large grant of a safe conduct and promise of great and singular clemency and Gentlenes; so that they return to heart, or repent and acknowledge the power of the holy Catholic church. If you desire so greatly to be solemnly called home, Construe of this condition then by your own rule.

Ye talk of her Majesty's word, and you say, you will ask only her Majesty's word. And yet to go further, by your leave, you being subjects, will see her Majesty's word set down by Proclamatiō, y ^t all y ^t world may be witnesses of it: such trust you repose in her majesties word, or letters Patents. Her Majesty's beck might serve such as you be well enough in this case: ye seem too distrustful to be plain meaning and dealing men. It is a hard case when her majesties commandment cannot serve with those, that will pretend to be subjects; with whom the least signification of her highness pleasure should be enough and enough again, without prescribing an order for her majesty to deal by, in a mere civil case too, as this is, to command her people to carry at home or to return home being abroad. And yet more you must appoint yourselves y ^t time to, of coming home before you will stir. Four score days just, no less will serve you. You are honorable men and long a making ready, & many things to take order in, before you can set yourselves into your voyage, & yet your best & surest pillars that of englishmen ye have to trust in; be here in england among us. If need were, and it were for your vantage three or four days would serve your turn to 〈◊〉 before her majesty. Her majesty hath nothing else to do, you think: but to attend and hearken after you and your suits, cunningly made for your advantage. Unless you carried better & more dutiful minds, ye may tarry where ye be still. Your room is better then your company: When you have afore hand provided for the safety of your persons, more then reason and honesty can ask, being subjects. Then you tell us what danger you will put yourselves into for the trial of God's truth, &c, Babling and vain folly as all the rest. This is the matter, either you would have a further ouverture to do more hurt then you now do, or can do, while you crave disputation. &c. not for to have your own doubtful consciences satisfied, but to bring moe into perplexity w ^t you, & to more cōfirm such as be too obstinate already in error, or else it may be, you are weary of being beyond the Seas and would fain come home, and after many attempts you think at last you have found out a way whereby you may be honourably called home. Ah craft: But peace for shame, no more of this. Is all the labor, peril and disadvantage on your partes as ye say, on the other part nothing at all, let her majesty the state & other here say for themselves and not you. It is enough for you to speak for your own side, leave the rest to be waied by them whom it toucheth nearer then you, you are but in a dream. The best and enowe of your side to take this matter in hand, be here in england, that there needeth no sending over sea for help to be had at englishmens hands thence, You M. Howlet and your companions for the most parte, have your sires and dams here, of whom you sucked your popery.

From this you come to show, If your offer be refused by us, that is: with your so great labor, peril, and disadvantage, we shall show our selves too much distrustful in our own cause, &c. Of your peril and safety, we have seen before: for your so great labor. Take no more pains to leese your labor I pray you, thē you need. When there is any use thereof, it will be called for, proffered service, &c. If ye find disadvantage, thank yourselves that make the match, we have not to regard that, Ye make many offers we see, and hide you in corners when you have 〈◊〉 , or like proper fellows betake you to your heels, & run away, that one cannot tell where to have you, nor where to seek you, saving that some of you by God's providence are sometime overtaken ere ye be aware, and taken napping as they say. You have always some let, or some excuse or other, why you keep not touche when your matters go not forward according to your expectation and mind. This is plain double dealing: you cast us the gloue of defiance, I am not disposed to contend with you in bragging and vaunting: yet let me warn you M. Howlet, and the proudest of your fellows, that ye take heed if you be wise: Little David's bag hath a stone in it, that flung at you before you come to hand strokes, will make you grouel on the ground, if ye abide it, were ye as stout as ever was great Goliath. Ye dare us, and would have us come over the Sea, to make offer to you. It is not in our hands, neither convenient to accept offers made by you at pleasure, nor to go over Sea unto you to make you offers. Have ye not enow beyond the Seas to dispute withal: Is all the world there one your side: Ywis, there be moe M. Howlet, and y ^t singular men thē you well would there were, and then while you live, you shall be able to deal withal, but to your shames. Never cry hoo hoo, at the matter like an Owl, there will be no lack of them I tell you, whose faces ye dare not abide, neither are ye able to stand in their hands, let it without brag be spoken to God's glory: either you dissemble egregiously, or ye know not the great power and gifts of God in the learned professors of the Gospel, beyond the Seas: but who is more bold then blind Bayard: As though there were not here to be talked daily withal, as profound learned English men of your side, as any of you that (having for the most part been of late young men in Oxeforde and some in Cambridge ) have since fled beyond Sea. Doth the very name and sight of Rome, and those quarters make now a days so great Clerks: I ween not, A cock I'perceive on his dounghill. The not accepting of your proud brags is no distrust in our cause, but a great pride in you, joined with a dastardly cowardliness, who putting fire into y ^t house runaway (as they say) by the light, plucking your necks out of the collor, most of all of obedience to her majesty. No dealing with you, except you may have your own offers, your own odds, and your own laws. You say that our coming over unto you is not to be hoped: and therefore you rely upon disputatiō to be granted; Which you very instantly seem to demand, but with your after parle & conditional indenting with her majesty, ye seem again to fly touche: that I say nothing here of the untimely asking of disputation at her majesties hands, after you have a little before, twice done the same: When we see greater cause than hitherto, or any good to be gotten by going over Sea, then may that voyage be thought of, or soon enough taken in hand, of us English Subiectes at her Majesty's appointment. When ye have overthrown those of our side in the low Countries Germany, France, &c. that they should need help in the cause of the Gospel, which will never be while you live. Then were soon enough, to make your brags and to call us, to combat. In the mean while what should I say: but whether you lie or rely, it is all but upon words and talk, shifting of things by cunning. This you have Rethoricke enough to enforce: But alack where truth and matter fail, there are words and Rethorick little worth. You that can handle an ill cause so handsomely, would I wish to try what you can do in a good, but that in deed needeth not so much a do: speaking well one may soon persuade wise men, saith one, which opinion (M. Howlet ) it might have beseemed you to have had of her majesty at least.

After all this a do, you will seem at length to crave pardon at her Majesty's hands, or rather because you will seem to be in no fault, but to excuse your presumption, you request that her Highnes will not take in evil part, this your bold attempt, Clarkely spoken, and like an Drator: where upon you allege reason, that hath induced you hereto, taken partly from the bond and knot, whereby her Majesty, and her subjects are narrowly linked together, partly from necessity, and extreme miseries, that ye pretend, you are brought into. This is the 〈◊〉 of your long, boasting withal, howe ready you and other of your side are, to spend your bloods in defense of your religion, and Church. This is in sum, the effect of the three next Sections, and that which remaineth for a Conclusion of your Dedicatorie Epistle. your over rash boldenes, in thus dealing with her Majesty, needeth greatly of craving pardon: Howeuer you craftily cloud it up, and put a false vizarde thereon, that I may turn to you, your own phrase, not so much for having recourse to her highness, in your pretended miseries, which either are not so great, or else easily relieved, if ye so will yourselves: but in respect of your double dealing, rather in pretending one thing, and doing the clean contrary, not containing yourself within the bounds ye talk of. You might with good leave of her Majesty, have propounded your case, and have had recourse unto her Highness, if her Majesty had been ignorant thereof, as I think none in the land knoweth it now better, such is her wisdom, and godly, and great care ower her Subiectes: wherein, you do her highness the more wrong, in supposing she liveth here among her Subiectes, as a stranger without understanding, and pitiyug the hard case, of any of her Majesty's natural, honest, and dutiful subjects: bearing, or forbearing your untrue persuasion. It may please her majesty to pardon that folly: but to feed her highness ears, w ^t bare words, without deeds, (nay your deeds being clean contrary and very naught) how should her Majesty take this in good part: for you are a Proctor for yourself, and other that you call Catholics, that have given your faith to the Pope, and Sea of Rome, her Majesty's sworn enemy, and the Realines: you go about with slander, to sever and make dissention, between her Majesty, her Laws, and the Ministers thereof: beetweene her, and her faithful people and subjects: Ye 〈◊〉 and report tales, to impeche the credit of particular persons. In sum, ye take too much upon you, ye would be credited in everything with her Majesty, as though your saying were some heavenly Oracle. Wilfully funne not headlong into moe, and greater afflictions, and calamities, then her Majesty, and laws will lay upon you, and you shall have little, or no cause to complain; such is her Majesty's plentiful wisdom, and goodness, and the great moderation, that is used in making of laws in this realm. Great, and narrow is the knot, thanks be to God, and hard and fast tied between her Majesty, and her good and faithful subjects, as your Pope, and you to your regret, have tried, in seeking many ways to dissolve that bande, and yet hitherto never could prevail, nor never I trust shall. If her Majesty be borne your Sovereign Princesse, and Mother, and you be her natural Subjects, and Children: As in deed, she is all true hearted Englishmens, and we all her Majesty's more bound, if more may be, in respect of the Gospel among us, then ever to any Princes or Kings before. If your case be common with ours, why then do you hot Catholics, grow more out of kind, then the rest ofher Majesty's natural subjects do? Why before you need, run you so fast, and so hastily to Rome, and to the Pope, and thence seek to make head, to disquiet this State, and your brethren, and countrymen at home. This is not only no part of a Loyall subject, towards his Prince and Country, but hardly the part of a true hearted Englishman: so unnatural is the dealing.

The better her Majesty's noble disposition, and virtues are known, and renowned throughout the world, the moremonstrous a great deal, is this your wicked dealing, with so gracious a Sovereign, and most natural, godly, and careful a Prince. You can have no greater condemnation, or testimony against you, then your devilish betaking of yourselves to the Stepmother, that you have chosen, leaving her that God had appointed you: whither ye list to take it of conscience, or policy. Run whither ye shall, seek 〈◊〉 and near, you are not like to find such a mother again abroad: Your stepmothers affection, that you have chosen, lift her up to the sky, if you can with your praises, is in no comparison like: she is too hard hearted, and too bloodye, we know her well enough, and but to well: Leave her therefore, leave her. Come out from that Babylon, &c. And like natural and obedient children, return home to your own dear Mother and Country, whom ye have so vnkindely, and so undutifully forsaken. Put yourselves again with submission into her hands, so it seemeth you will: but when you cannot otherwise chose, and yet hardly then too, your fault here in is such, as I hardly find words, to express the indignity thereof. If all be well considered, you have very great cause of recourse, and submission to her Majesty: and from her, to foreigners and other, no cause at all: Leave it therefore in time, leave it and come home. At least for your part, M. Howlet, do so, if you be abroad and beyond Sea, without her Majesty's leave: But come with a single heart and a good conscience, that is, a changed man. Put yourself in deed without all dissimulation, to her Majesty's mercy, and to us you shall be moste welcome. If misery press you, with the prodigal Son, hearken to this advise the rather: Better to learn by affliction, and in it; then never; If your State be other, by your return let it appear, with howe frank a heart, and well meaning mind you come home, which will be, when God shall first touch your hearts, to return unfeignedly and in deed, from Popery and superstition, to that most merciful heavenly father, or else never. This is the best Counsel I can at this time give you.

For her Maisties being abroad among her Subjects, in many partes of her Realm. It is, thanks be to God, and long may it continue, much and often, to our great joy. She needeth not be told of the State of her subjects by you, or go by here say only, and receive the report thereof, from beyond Sea. Besides, reports gather, and go much by men's affections; This that you report of such hurly burley, and disquietness to be in this Realm, is as true as other reports, that come to you of things done here, and all a like, you are too light of credit: Your representation of the miseries, is but words, ye make more a do then ye need a great deal: If her Majesty's most moderate laws against Popery and Treason, if her mild proceeding in the just defense of her self, her royal estate, and the Realms press you: will you do well: Give over that dealing then, that hath procured all this, and live quietly at home as God's true servants, in the profession of the Gospel of Christ Jesus, and in dutiful obedience to our Sovereign: Pray for her Matestie, and the State with us, as we are willed, that we may lead a quiet and a peaceable life in all godliness and honesty, and all former quarrelles between you and us in religion, forgotten and forgiven, we will live in peace and charity with you, howe ever you think otherwise of us. You make an If, and do well so to do, When you talk of her Majesty's disposition, to delight in your calamities, & of others cruel appetite to desire blood: which is as far frō her majesty, & those of y ^t side; as y ^e same is familiar unto your popish religion: It is happy, howe ever ye think of other that ye clear her Majesty herein, which testimony from the enemy hath some force. But howe ever ye brag of A readiness to accept the offer of suffering death for your religion: yet thank God, if ye be wise, and her Majesty that that offer hitherto hath not been made you, nor them that ye be assured to be so ready to accept thereof. This I tell you for all; your troubles are not delighted in here, much less be they or your blood sought after. These 〈◊〉 but your dreams, You might well enough have spared therefore that brag either of yourself bing beyond sea, or of your fellows readiness to suffer and to die in so evil a cause especially, how ever you call it Catholic. It is a question of 〈◊〉 (man) and of treason, 〈◊〉 , and rebellion, & not other, that you call the Catholic cause, Again you can at the most, but warrant for yourself. Let other men alone hardly in this case. And yet talking of suffering death, you do wisely (in my opinion) when ye join those few that be here of your side in prison with yourself, and those that are fled beyond Sea, and put them first in the forewarde, and follow yourselves aloof and a far of, 〈◊〉 this condition: that if y ^t number will not suffice, where by seeing how they speed, and will stand to their tackling as stāders by, & out of danger ye may after they be gone, consult what is best for you: whether to come home and take such parte as they, which even now ye are not very hasty to do, or to tarie there still, unless you may come in safety, for which ye meetely well provide, as we have seen a little before. I pray God make both you and us all ready to bear the cross, and whatsoever afflictiō here for Christ's sake & his Gospel, when it shall please him to call us to that trial. And let the catholic cause go, of which you so much talk, all without book. For the other I mean the profession of Christ's gospel, our brethren in Queen maries days (to keep home, and to go no farther of) being in the hands of those of your side, have to God's glory already given ample and sufficient testimony of the truth. And yet I am in doubt that the blood then shed, would not satisfy your bloody church, if you had the sword in your hands which God keep you from if it please him.

Here I find now cited the third time, the first book of Aristotle's Rhetoric, to adorn this your Epistle withal and you note, both in your text and margin the Law of Areopagus, It had been more wisdom for you M. Howler to have set that rule or law before your eyes in the beginning, At your entry into your Epistle, as you found it at the beginning of the first book of Aristotle's Rhetoric, that ye might still have been put in remembrance, to have kept the same better than you now have done, or to left it quite out, when you have used all your skil, to move h̄er majesties to the affections of pity, hatred, and so forth, and have told a great deal more than troth. You say now out of place in the ende that you will keep the Law of Areopagus. The learned reader in perusing the very first leaf of Aristotle's Rhetoric and comparing it with this your manner of writing, will by & by see your vanity & what credit there is in your word, how well you keep the rules of your profession. You have taken an evil cause in hand: Aristotle in his Rhetoric saith, you should persuade no such matter though you could. It is an abuse of your art, supposition deceived you. Aristotle would have you pithy, or bring matter & stuff for proof & not be occupied in cunningly stirring up affections with words, which is the substance of your writing. For that (saith he) an argument or reason is a Rhetorical demonstration, and the chief in persuasion. Concerning the Law of Areopagus at Athens in Greece. There were certain judges of capital matters of great authority and fame called Areopagites, of y ^e place where they sat in judgment. In this court were there diverse good laws and civil orders to keep the court and judgment therein from 〈◊〉 dealing, and other corruptions as to such cases apertaineth, some concerning the judges themselves, some concerning those that had to deal there: Among which this was one, that M. Howlet allegeth here out of Aristotle's Rhetoric, to wit, that none that pleaded in that court should speak anything out of the matter, or frō the purpose, to stir up the affection of the judges, and thereby to seduce them and to pervert judgment. This is commended of Aristotle in his Rhetoric, as an order to be followed of Orators and was practiced in Athens, as a good and wholesome law, the crier forwarning and forbidding him that was publicly to speak to use any preface, or to stir affecttiōs only to propound his matter. And I would M. Howlet, as be here professeth, had in time better regarded and observed the fame, than he doeth through his epistle dedicatotorie, so should we have had less cause to have plained of corrupt dealing, and her majesty and this church also have been less troubled. Aristotle (finding fault with Rhetoricians before his tune, for treating in artificial speech, but of a little portion of that art, and that the lesser and worse to stir up affections, where in they were most occupied (as M. Howlets practice is in this his Epistle to her majesty) omitting there whilst matter, substance, and sound proofs, which is either all or the principal) writeth thus: Arguments or reasons to prove withal, pertain only to art, other things are accessory but these Rhetoritians speak nothing of arguments which is the body of proof and persuasion, but busy themselves most in things that are without the compass of the matter for tantes or reproach, pity, anger, and perturbation of the mind, be not of the matter it self: but pertain to the judge so as if it were in all judgments as it is in some Cities now, and in such as have good Laws, they should have nothing to speak: For all men partly think that the Laws ought so to provide, partly use it, and forbid any to speak out, or from the matter; as it is also in Areopagus judging rightly hereof: For we may not peruerte the judge or carry him out of the way by drawing him into anger hatred or compassion: For it were even as if one should make the measure or rule, that he were to use, crooked to deceive withal. Thus far Aristotle, enough for this matter, that the reader may see what dealing we may look for at M. Howlets hands in other things, when we find him so hollowe in his own faculty, and so ill to keep the Law that he professeth to keep, taken out of his master Aristotle, He that list to see more let him look in the Author him self who declaimeth at large against this abuse of Rhetoric.

The rest of your Hyperbolicall, that is raving and roving speeches without all truth I omit, and come to touche shortly your Epilogus or conclusion. One saith that in Areopagus, there was neither preface nor Epilogus, but as in your preface at y ^e beginning likewise so here in the end you freely break the law of Areopagus, that even a little before ye so promised to keep; so that your keeping is everywhere a breaking, as we decree; is we abrogate; you know w ^t whō, and by whose expositiō, if not worse. Your Epilogus or conclusion is mixed with wishes, fawning, false persuasion condemnation of other and clearing of yourself and your fellows. Good M. Howlet, let words and deeds go once together, do not tell us (while ye serve in the rampe of God's, her Majesty's, and the realms enemy under the Pope of Rome) of y ^e affectiō you bear to her 〈◊〉 . She believeth you not, neither can we believe you. You have brokē the after oath givē to her majesty before time, & have taken a new oath to the Pope, the banner being now displayed on both sides and the field pitched. Ye are seen and found coming in the fight with weapon in hand from under y ^e enemies standard, & to press as hard as ye can against the religion her majesty professeth, & the state. What would ye have her majesty or the state that lead the contrary Campe judge of you: ye carry a wrong cognizance, and that bewrayeth you. God in abundance of mercy long bless her majesty, with all kind of blessings spiritual and temporal to God's glory daily more and more, her majesties honor, the benifite of God's church, and the conversion or confusion of all her enemies, and specially to the confusion of that Antichrist of Rome, that hath and still doeth, so maliciously and spitefully, seek the subversion of God's holy Gospel, and her majesty, and this state the professors thereof: God again of his goodness long continue with increase the sincere profession of Christ's holy Gospel & religion among us under her majesty, and in all make us thankful for so great benefits.