An Answer to Six Reasons of Thomas Pound

The first Reason.

FIrst you say, that such controversies, may not be tried by the holy Scriptures, because thei be mute and dumb, uttering to us, from the book, nothing but only the words, and not the sense, wherein the life (as it were) of the Scripture, doeth consist.

Howe fond this Reason is. I think yourself should see. For what sense can there be in words, that cannot be uttered by words? Or what words can any man use in opening the sense of words written, but that the same being set down in writing, may as well open the cense: as thei might being spoken and not written? you seem to imagine, that we would have the holy Scriptures (as thei be written in books, & enclosed in coueringes) to be Judge of such matters, as you speak of: for otherwise, how can you call them mute and dumb?

The Prophet Jeremiah was commanded to write all the words of the Lord against Judah and Israel, and all other Nations, in a book, and to cause the same to be read in the hearing of all the people, and so he did, as appeareth in the .26. of his Prophesies, that every man might be turned away, from their own moste wicked ways, and so the Lord might be merciful to them. After this manner would we have controversies judged by the Scriptures. Not as thei be written and kept secret in hooks: but being reuereudly read, weighed, and considered, with the circumstances of person, time and place, with all other necessary circumstances: so that the Readers, being willing to have their controversies ended, do submit them selves to that judgment, that thei shall find in the Scriptures, so read, waied and considered.

As for your Opinatiue man and wrangler, that you speak of: if he will stand still in his opinion (as you your self do (notwithstanding that it is made manifest, by the holy Scriptures, that his opiniō is not right: he must be taken for an Heretic, and after one or two warnynges, rejected, being subverted, as one that sinneth even condemned by his own conscience.

The seconde Reason.

Your second Reason I do call false, for that you do falsely report, that the holy Scriptures are full of hard and deep mysteries. And for that you do falsely affirm, that S. Agustine did sharply reboke Honoratus▪ for rushyng so boldly into the holy Scriptures, where as he would not be so bold, as to take upon him to understand such a Poet as Terence was without a Master.

Firste, I would wish you to weigh well the words of S. Paul, written to Timothy. Do thou ( saith S. Paul to Timothy ) continue in those things which thou hast learned, and are committed unto thee, knowing of whom thou hast learned them, and that thou hast known (even from thine Infancie) the holy Scriptures, which are sufficient to instruct thee to salvation, through that faith which is in Christ Jesus. Every Scripture that was written by divine inspiratiō, is profitable to teache, to correct, to reprove, and to instruct in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfectly instructed to every good work.

If all Scriptures, be so full of hard and deep mysteries (as you have said) then cannot any Scripture be so profitable to teache &c. As Saint Paul telleth Timothy: That all Scriptures be, neither can the man of GOD be thereby perfectly instructed to every good work.

We read, that our Savior Christ, did sharply reprehende his two Disciples, as he walked with them towards Emmaus, for that thei were so dull and hard to believe, that which the Prophets had so plainly spoken. Ought not Christ ({quod} he) to sufter these things, and so to enter into his glory? As though he should have said: are you so doltishe and blockishe, that you understand not so plain speeches as the Prophets have used concerning the suffering es of Christ?

And appearing to them afterwards, as thei were altogether in Jerusalem: He telleth them, that of necessity, all must be fulfilled, that had been written concerning him, either in the law of Moses, in the Prophets, or in the Psalms. And that thei might understand the Scriptures, he did then open their vnderstandynges: Whereby it appeareth, that it was not the hardness and deepness of the mysteries (wherewith, as you say the Scripture is full) that held them from the understanding thereof: but the dullness of their own understanding, because thei were as yet but carnal: and therefore could not perceive things belonging to the spirit of God, as Saint Paul hath written. The natural man, doeth not perceive these things that do belong to the spirit of God. Not that we be of our selves, as of our selves, sufficient to think any thing, but our sufficiency is of God. &c.

Now, for that which you have cited, out of Augustine, concerning the reprehendyng of Honoratus: I would gladly know of you, what Honoratus it was that you speak of. One there was of that name, to whom Saint Augustine wrote his .120. Epistle. But that Honoratus was not like to use any such speech to S. Augustine. Neither doeth Saint Augustine in that Epistle, use any such speech to him, as you say he did. But in the last ende of the Epistle, Saint Augustine showeth him self to be of another mind, then (by your report) your Augustine seemed to be. For he saith thus.

Habes librum, & si prolixum, tamen, quantum existimo non superfluum. &c. Thou haste here a Book (saith Saint Augustine ) which though it be long: yet, as I think, it is not superfluous. But do thou love the Ecclesiastical writings also, and thou shalt not find many things, which thou shouldest need to seek for at my hands. But by reading and ruminating or cuddyng (if thou do also purely pray unto the Lord, that is the giver of all good things) thou shalt learn thoroughly, all those things, or undoubtedly very many of those things, that are worth the knowing, rather by his inspiration, then by any man's admonition: Although, even in the same thing wherein we do with right judgment allow that man that doth outwardly admonish us well: what other thing do we, then testify that we have an inward light that doeth teache us, and is our Master? Thus far Augustine. Lette your friends judge, whether it be likely, that this Augustine, and this Honoratus, would use such speeches the one to the other, as you report yours to have done.

One other Honoratus there was, to whom our S. Augustine wrote his .161. Epistle. This man held with Donatus: and in that Epistle Saint Augustine doeth exhort him, to render a reason quietly in writing, wherefore the name of the Church should at that time remain only among the Donatists.

There was also a third, Honoratus, to whom our S. Augustine wrote his .179. Epistle. This man Saint Augustine calleth brother and fellow Bishop, and doeth instruct him at large in the liberty of fliyng persecution: wherein he useth not one word, that may be wrested to that meaning that you have reported.

But you will say, there is yet one other, to whom Saint Augustine wrote his Book, De vtilitate credendi.

Suche an Honoratus there was in deed. But when you shall read that Book with more indifferent judgment: you shall not find, that Augustine to be of your mind. Not much before that place that you take hold of, writing of the truth of the Scripture, and noting that we ought to love the Scripture before we learn it: he writeth thus. Quicquid est (mihi creed) in Scriptures illis, altum & diuinum est. &c. Believe me (saith Saint Augustine ) whatsoever thing is in the Scriptures, the same is deep and divine: truth is in it altogether, and a discipline that is moste meet for the refreshyng and restoring of minds: and undoubtedly, so moderated, that every man may draw therehence, enough to satiffie himself, if so be that he come to draw after a devout and Godly sort, as true Religion requireth. And immediately before the place that you seem to take hold of: he 〈1 page missing〉

By that interpretation that you make of the words that are written in the sixteen of Matthew: ye maintain the gross error, of building Christ his Church upon Peter the man, and not upon Christ the Rock: not withstandyng, that the best of the Catholic Doctors have written to the contrary. Yea, and herehence come all your Indulgencies and Pardones, with absolute power for your Pope to do what he will▪ without check or controulement.

I might here take just occasion, to rehearse all those errors, that have been, and are holden by your sort, and ascribe them all, to that which S. Augustine speaketh of in the words that you cite: that is. That by your sort, the good Scriptures, are not well understanded. But studiyng to be brief, I pass them over.

To proceed in mine Aunswere: you eatche hold of S. Peter. And he must needs help you to face out your lie. If S. Peter will have your favor, he must needs bear you record, that the Scriptures are full of hard and deep mysteries, as you have taught S. Augustine to say. But when the place that you cite shall be weighed, with indifferent judgment: it will be found that S. Peters meaning, was not as you take is to be.

Saint Peter hath written thus. But we look for new heavens, and a new earth, according to his promise, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore beloved, seeing that ye look for such things thee diligent, that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And suppose, that the long suffering of our Lord, is salvation: even as our beloved brother Paul (according to the wisdom given unto him) wrote to you, as one that in all his Epistles, speaketh of those things, amongst which, some things are hard to be understanded, which thei that be unlearned and unstable do peruerte, as thei do also other Scriptures to their own destruction.

If you read these words of S. Peter in the Greek tongue (wherein the Apostle wrote them) you shall find that the Relatiue 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , is of the newter gender, and cannot by the rules of Grammar, agree with 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , which is of the feminine gender. Wherefore, it must be Englished, thus. In, or amongst which things or matters that Paul wrote of, and not, in those Epistles that he wrote: as in your application of Peters words, you seem to understand him to mean. But peradventure, you have no good likyng of the Greek Text, neither of our Latin translations. I will therefore set down the words of S. Peter, even as I find them in the translation, that is allowed in the Counsel of Trent: and as thei be writ̄ in an old written Bible that I have in Parchment, written, I know not how many hundred years past. Thus are thei written in the Bible. Propter quod charissimi, haec expectantes, satagite, immaculati & inuiolati ei inueniri in pace: & domini nostri longanimitatem, salutem arbitremini, sicut & charissimus frater noster Paulus, secundum datam sibi sapientiam, scripsit vobis, sicut & in omnibus epistolis, loquens in eis de hijs, in quibus sunt quaedam difficilia intellectu, quae indocti & instabiles deprauant, sicut & caeteras scripturas, ad suam ipsorum perditionem. And I think, that you yourself would translate them into English, thus. Wherefore, dearly beloved, waityng for these things, give your endeavor to be found unto him in peace, being without spot, and undefiled: and think that the long suffering of our Lord, is salvation, even as our moste dear brother Paul (according to the wisdom that is given unto him) hath written to you, even as in every Epistle, speaking in them of those things, amongst which are some things, that are hard to be understanded, which unlearned and unstable men, do deprave, even as thei do other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

I trust you do see now, that we need not that reason, which you do call childish, and is not indeepe so childish, but that it hath in all ages been (and is still) allowed amongst the learned, for the best rule in understanding of places of the Scripture, wherein is any difficulty.

But now you do beg (or rather take) leave, to pose us one question further, to the quick. And thus you say. How is it possible, to know by any conference of the Scriptures, which is Canonical Scripture, and which is not? &c.

You seem to be persuaded that this question toucheth to the quick in deed. For you affirm plainly, that if any Infidel, Heretic, or Arbeist, shall deny any parte of the old or new Testament, or the whole old and New Testament (as in times past some have done.) &c. We have no Ankor hold against such, but only the Revelation of God to the Church, by Tradition, which Church is the pillar, and sure stay of truth. &c.

I confess, that the Church is the Pillar and sure stay of truth, as Saint Paul writeth. But that this truth is revealed to the Church by Tradition (as you write) that I deny. For God hath taught, (and doth still teach) the truth to his Church, by the word of truth, and not by Revelation or Tradition. And that word of truth is sufficient, and needeth not that any thing should be added to it: either by Revelation, or by Tradition. Yea▪ there is an horrible curse pronounced against all such as shall add any thing to in.

The true Catholic Church, is in deed the Pillar and sure stay, whereon, that truth that is taught by the word of truth, doeth stay. For that word of truth, is the voice of her Sheepeheard, and she delighteth in hearing that voice: but the voice of a stranger she cannot abide to hear. The truth taught by the voice of her Sheepehearde, she layeth up in her heart: and all her delight is to let men see it, in her life and conversation, that seeing her good life, they may be occasioned thereby, to glorify her spouse Christ, and his and her heavenly Father.

This is that authority, that S. Augustine saith, moved him to believe the Gospel. And this authority caused him to write thus, against that Epistle of Manichaeus, which the Manichees called their foundation. Ego veró Euangelio non crederem, nisi me Catholicae Ecclesiae commoueret authoritas. Surely, I would not believe the Gospel, except the authority of the Church did move me thereto.

Not many lines before those words, S. Augustine saith thus to the Manichees. Apud vos, vbi nihil horum est, quod me inuitet ac teneat. &c. That is: Amongst you, where no part of that thing is, which might allure and hold me, there soūdeath only a promising of the truth: which undoubtedly, if it be shown forth so manifestly, that it may not be doubted of: it is to be preferred before all those things that do hold me in the Church.

I pray you (Master Pownde ) ponder well these words of Augustine: and be not afraid with Augustine to yield, to the manifest truth, (when it shall be manifested to you) only because it lacketh the consent of Peoples, and Nations, the authority of Miracles, the nourishment of hope, the increase of looue, the establishment of Antiquity, the hold from Peters seat, the succession of Priests, and the name of Catholic. For S. Augustine saith: That the manifest truth must be preferred before all these.

But if you will mark it well, you shall find that the truth which we hold and teach, and would wish you and all your sort to embrace, doth not lack the chiefest of those things that moved S. Augustine first to embrace it. For it is the same, that first got credit, by those Miracles that were wrought by Christ and his Apostles. It was, and is still nourished by hope: It was, and is still increased by looue, it is also confirmed by that seat which you call Peters, and hath the succession of Priests, although not in such sort as you allow of. And last of all, it hath the right name of Catholic.

Thus, I hope, you do now see, that you have not rightly applied, either the words of Paul, or of Augustine: mynding thereby to prove, that the Church of Roome, (being such a Church, as now it showeth it self to be) is the Pillar of truth, and that Catholic Church, whereunto all Christians should and must of necessity cleave, if they will be saved by Christ.

Your conclusion, wherein you advise all men to beware of fleeing from the Church, to the judgment of the Scriptures only. &c. Was not so advisedly made, as were seemly to be made, by one that were so well seen in the writings of y ^e Fathers, as you would seem to be. For (as I think, yea, I am persuaded, that I may safely affirm,) there is not one of the ancient Fathers, of your mind in that point.

Saint Augustine, in his Epistle forty and eight, written to Vincentius, saith thus. Noli ergo frater, contra diuina tam multa, tam clara, tam indubitata testimonia. &c. Doo not therefore (Brother) show thyself wylling, to gather out of the writings of Bishops, reproaches against so heavenly, so many, so clear, and so undoubted testimonies: whether the same Bishops be on our side, as Hillarius, or of the unity it self, before the faction of Donatus was separated from it, as Cyprian, and Agripinus: First for that, that kind of writing must be distinguished, from the authority of the Canon, for they are not so read, that testimony should be taken out of them, that it might not be lawful for any man, to be of a mind contrary thereto, if perhaps they shall in any place be of other mind then the truth requireth. For we are of that number that may not disdain, to take even unto our self, this saying of the Apostle. And if ye be of another mind in anything, God will reveal the same to you also.

Thus you may see, that S Augustine doth not allow the sentence of any man, no nor the sentence of the unity it self (which I understand to be a general Council) against the Canonical Scripture.

The same Saint Augustine, writing to Saint Jerome in his fifteen Epistle, saith thus. Ego enim fateor charitati tuae. &c. I confess (saith S. Augustine ) I have learned to give this reverend fear and honor, only to those Books of the Scriptures, which now are called Canonical: that I do firmly believe, that none of the Authors of them, have in writing erred any thing at all.

By this saying of Saint Augustine, it may appear, that he was of this mind, that there may be error, even in the decrees of your general Councils.

Again, against the Donatists, Saint Augustine writeth thus. Quis autem nesciat Scripturam canonicam. &c. Who can be ignorant (saith Saint Augustine ) that the holy Scripture, as well of the old as of the new Testament, is contained within her own bounds or lymittes: and that the same is so preferred before all the latter writings of Bishops, that concerning it, there may be no doubt or controversy at all, whether anything that is certainly known to be written in it, be true or right. And the writings of Bishops, which have been, or be written, after the confirmation of the Canon, may be found fault with (if it happen that anything therein do swerve from the truth) either by more wise speech of any other, that is more expert in that matter: or by the more grave Authority of other Bishops, or the wisdom of men better learned, or by Councils, yea, and that the Councils them selves, which are holden in particular Regions, or Provinces, must without any doubting, give place, to the authority of full Councils, which are made of the universal Christian world. Yea, & that the full or general Councils that are first holden, may be amended by them that are holden afterwards, when by any experience of things, that thing that before was shut, is made open, and that thing which lay hyd, is made known. And this may be done, without any hautinesse of sacrilegious pride, without any swelling throat of arrogancy, without any contencion of spiteful envy, with holy humility, with Catholic peace, and with Christian Charity. Thus far Augustine.

Now I think you will confess, that your Catholic Church may err: or else that S. Augustine, one of the Doctors of that Church did err. For he saith, that the latter general Councils, may amend the former. He saith also, that there may be no doubt or controversy about the truth of anything, that is known to be written in the Canonical Scriptures. Therefore, blame us not, though we flee from the judgment of the Church to the scriptures, which can never deceive us.

And as touching that inconvenience that you do put us in mind of, which is the denying of the Scriptures by Atheists: I pray you let me propone one question to you, and so pose you as night to the quick as you have posed us. What if your Church should utterly be denied to be the Church of Christ? Or what if those Atheists that be in England, or else where, should deny that Christ hath any Church at all: or that there is, or hath been, any such Christ as we believe in? Might not those Infidels (think you) laugh you to scorn, for robbing yourselves of your own defense, which is the word of God, which Saint Paul calleth the sword of the Spirit?

But now you will return to your purpose. If conference of one Scripture with another, might give light enough to all men: Howe happeneth it, that all sects using that conference, the sectaries can never agree in their opinions. &c. To this, not I, but S. Paul shall give you answer. Oportet heresies esse, vt hij qui probati sunt, manifesti sint in vobis. It cannot be avoided, but that there must be heresies, or sects, that they which be tried, may be made known amongst you. Let S. Paul defend his own assertion, as he can. I will betake me to that uttermost shift that you say we have, notwithstanding, that you call it a weak one.

Saint Augustine saith, that the Scriptures must be read, by such as do undoubtedly believe, that they are most true witnesses. And these are his words. Agant orando, & quaerendo, & been viuēdo vt intelligant. &c. That is: They must labor by prayer, and by seeking, and by living well: that they may understand, that is, that they may see in mind, (as much as may be seen) that which they do hold by faith. And S▪ James saith. If any man lack wisdom, let him ask it of God. &c.

Thus may you see, that both S. James, and S. Augustine do allow of this shift, which you do account to be so weak, and such intolerable pride. Yea, S. Augustine addeth these words. Quis hoc prohibeat? imó veró, ad hoc quis non hortetur? Who can forbid this? Yea rather, who will not exhort heerunto? do you therefore accoūpt of it as you lust: we will still use it, as the ready way to attain to that knowledge, that is necessary for us.

As for the revealing of the truth to the universal Church, for which Christ him self did pray: we confess that according to his promise, Christ hath revealed to them altogether, and to every particular member amongst them, as much as he knew to be meet to be revealed to them. And so be the words of his promise. Ille vos docebit omnia, & suggeret vobis omnia, quae cūque dixero vobis. He shall teach you all things, and he shall put you in mind of all those things, that I shall speak unto you.

The pleasant pastime that you make, with the course that we take, in the search and study of the Scriptures, I pass over: for I know, that he only to whom we pray, doth know how faithfully we pray, and whether with tears or without. To him we shall stand, or fall▪ Judge not you another man's Seruaunt.

But you say, we must needs be all deceived, so long as we dwell in dissention, and are not in errors only, but also, one of us contrary to another. And who now must be Judge, to try the Spirites, whether they be of God, or no? Only the Church, (say you) or else they shall not be tried at all. &c.

For the first, Saint Paul hath told you, that of necessity, sects must be amongst men, and even amongst such as be of the Church of Christ: And that because, such as be allowed or tried, cannot otherwise be known. And as touching the other point, Saint Augustine saith thus. Contra insidiosos errores, Deus voluit ponere firmamentum in scriptures, contra quas, nullus audet loqui▪ qui quoquo modo se vult videri Christianum. It was the pleasure of God, to set in the scriptures, a sure Bulwark against deceitful errors: against which Scriptures, no man, that is any way wylling to seem to be a Christian, dare be bold to speak.

As gold by the toutch stone, so are the spirits tried by the Scripture. And everyone that is skillful in the scriptures, that is, that can by conferring of one scripture with another. find out the meaning of the holy ghost in the scriptures: may be as bold to use the scripture in the trial of spirits, as the Goldsmith may be, to use the toutch stone, in the trial of mettalles. And if ye think that the conference of one Scripture with another, be not the surest way to attain to the true meaning of the Scriptures, look Saint Augustine, De Doctrina Christiana. Lib. 3. Cap. 26. And thus much for answer to your second Reason, which I have called False.

The third Reason.

THe third Reason that moveth you to think, that the Scriptures are to be judged by the Church: is, for that S. Peter hath written, That no Scripture is to be taken after any private interpretation. &c.

This Reason I have called Foolishe, for that foolishly you do rushe into the Epistle of Saint Peter, and report his words otherwise then he wrote them: and then you yourself do make a private interpretation of them, contrary to the decree made in the Council of Trent: whereof you would seem to make greatest account.

The words of Saint Peter, as they do stand in that translation that the Council of Trent hath allowed, are these. Hoc primùm intelligentes, quód omnis prophaetia scripturae, propria interpretation non fit. Understanding this thing first: that no prophesy of the scripture, is made by private interpretation. I marvel howe you (being such a Catholic as you profess to be) durst set down Peters words, otherwise then you find them in that translation. For I am sure, you are not ignorant of the penalty that the Council hath appointed for such doings.

But this is not all your misdemeanor in this behalf. For you make a private Interpretation, contrary, both to the decree, and also to this third Reason of yours. For, to make a private interpretation, is to make such a one as differeth from the ancient writers, and is not allowed of the Church. But where can you show me any ancient writer, that hath interpreted those words of Peter, as you do?

Saint Augustine meddleth not with them. No more doth S. Jerome, S. Ambrose, S. Gregory, nor Chrysostom, nor any other of that time, that I have seen, or can hear of.

Nicholaus Lyranus, writing upon these words of S. Peter, saith that the meaning of S. Peter, was to teach: that no prophetical Scripture hath beginning in, or doth spring out of human sense, or man's meaning. For thus he writeth. Propria interpretation non fit, id est, non fit sensu humano: ideo subditur. Non enim voluntate humana allata est aliquando prophetia, sed spiritu sancto inspirati. &c. It is not made (saith he) by any man's own interpretatiō (that is to say) it is not made by human sense: and therefore, this saying is set immediately after. Prophecy hath not at any time been brought in, by man's will: but men inspired with the holy Ghost. &c.

I think your Fathers of the Council of Trent, will allow Lyranus for a Catholic writer: wherefore, I think also that they will not dispense with you, for dissenting from him, in the interpreting of S. Peters words.

But now, if ye will give me leave, I will tell you what I think to be the meaning of S. Peter in these words. First I think, that you do know, that S. Peter wrote in Greek. And then you must know, that the words which in the allowed translation, are Priuata interpretation: are in the Greek, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 . And they that have any skyll in the Greek tongue, will tell you that 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 doth signify Impulsus, as well as Interpretatio. And may we not translate the words of S. Peter thus? Omnis prophetica scriptura, non fit proprij impulsus. Every prophetical Scripture, is not made of, or by private, or proper impulsion. Or to translate it more English like: No prophetical Scripture is made of, or by private or proper impulsion.

It seemeth to me, that both the words that go before, and also the words that follow, do enforce this to be the meaning of Saint Peter. For he saith thus. We have a firm and sure prophetical speech: and you do well in that you do give good heed thereto, as unto a Candle that appeareth in a dark place, until the day may wax clear, and the day star may arise in your hearts. But yet so, that you do first know, that no prophetical Scripture, is made by private or proper impulsion. For prophesy hath not at any time been brought unto us by the will of men, but the holy men of God have spoken, as by the spirit of God, they have been driven, or vehementlie moved to speak.

Let your friends consider of this, and tell you whether this may be allowed for Catholic or not. I do • not write this, as one that do not think that saying of yours ( No Scripture is to be taken after any private interpretation ) to be true: or as one that doth allow the rashness of such as will rushe into the Scriptures, without such reuerance as is seemly, and take upon them to make interpretations after their own fantasies. I know that all that we can do, and all the helps that we can have, are little enough, and therefore I think it meet, for all men, to follow the rules that S. Augustine prescribeth, writing, De Doctrina Christiana. And thus much may suffice to be said, to your third Reason, which by good Reason, and for just cause (as I think) I have called Foolishe.

The fowrth Reason.

YOur fowrth Reason is, for that by appealing to the Scripture, we seem (as you say) to give men lybertie to deny all unwritten verities, which we have received of the Church, either by express definition, in general Council, or but by tradition. &c. And first, you delight yourself with a frumpe at Crowley and his fellows, that will laugh (as you say) so soon as they hear of unwritten verities. And it seemeth that you persuade yourself that you have done it very finely. And therefore I have named this Reason of yours Fātasticall.

But yet a little to temper our folly (you will not say our pride) you will ask us how we prove the Trinity of persons, and the unity of substance in the Godhead, by express Scriptures. &c.

Nine verities we must prove by Scriptures, which are not (as you say) written in the Canonical Scriptures. Well, to stay your wisdom, I will (by God's merciful assistance) do what may be done in this matter. And I hope to prove as many of them, as be necessary to be known to salvation: even by plain scriptures. And the rest. I hope I shall be able to prove, in such sort as the Fathers have proved them, against such as have at any time denied them. And first, I must prove, that in the Godhead, there be three distinct persons, and but one substance. This and the second, that is, that in Christ there be two distinct Natures, and but one person: I think I shall easily prove.

The Prophet David, hath written thus. Psal. 110. The Lord hath said to my Lord, sit thou at my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy foot stool. The Lord shall send out of Zion, the Scepter of thy power, bear thou rule in the mids amongst his enemies. Thus much in the two first verses. And in the fifth verse he saith thus. The Lord at thy right hand, hath wounded even Kings in the day of his wrath.

That the Prophet David, did in these verses of this Psalm, speak of the divine Majesty, and of the second person Christ: it is manifested by that which S. Matthew writeth in his twenty and two Chapt. Vos quid dicitis de Christo? cuius filius est? What do you say of Christ? whose son is he? &c.

The Lord. That is God the Father. Sayde to my Lord. That is to God the Son. &c. Here have we two distincted persons, the Father, and the Son. And in the seconde verse, he saith: The Lord shall send out of Zion, the Scepter of thy power, which is, the word of the Gospel. And this Scepter was sent out of Zion by the holy Ghoste, in the feast of Pentecoste: when he rested upon the Apostles, in the shape of 〈…〉 rie tongues divided. So that here we have the third person, and so consequently three distinct persons. The Father saith to the son, sit thou at my right hand. &c. And the holy Ghost sendeth the word, which is the scepter of the power of the Son out of Zion. And in the fifth verse he saith. The Lord at thy right hand, shall wound even Kings in the day of his wrath. Thus speaketh the divine Majesty: God the Father, God the Son, God the holy Ghoste, one divine Majesty: to the Church of Christ he re milytaunt upon earth. So have we the unity, of the three distinct persons in the deity. And Christ him self, expounding the first verse of this Psalm to be spoken of him self, doth a warrant us, that he being David's son after the flesh, is nevertheless David's Lord, and therefore God. And so both God and man, and yet but one Christ. For be saith: What say you of Christ? Whose son is he?

This might suffice to show, that these two verities are not unwritten, as you do term them. But to satisfy you to the full: look what S. Matthew hath written, in the last Chapter, & last words of his Gospel: reporting the words of our Savior, who saith thus there. All power both in heaven and earth, is given unto me. Go your way therefore, and teach all Nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all those things that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you every day, even to the ende of the world.

Here the man Christ, receiveth from the divine Majesty, all power, both in heaven and in earth: and by that power he giveth commission to his Apostles to go and teache all Nations, and to Baptize them in the name of the Father, of the Son, & of the holy Ghost. So that here again we have three distinct persons: and their unity, in giving to Christ all power in heaven and in earth: and the two natures, in one person Christ, in that he receiveth all power in heaven and in earth, and giveth commission to his Apostles to teach and baptize.

If this will not satisfy you: I refer you to that which S. Augustine hath written in his book, De Trinit. There shall you find proof upon proof, that these verities are not unwritten.

The third verity that you say is unwritten, is that God the Father was never begotten. It seemeth that you have not read S. Peaules Epistle to the Ephesians: for if you had, you must needs have seen, that this is no unwritten verity. Saint Paul writeth thus. Huius rei gratia flecto genua mea, ad patrem Domini nostri Jesus Christi, ex quo omnis paternitas in coelo & in terra nominatur. For this cause (saith S. Paul ) do I bow my knees, to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, of whom all Fatherhoode, both in heaven and in earth doth take name. I trow you will not now say that this verity is unwritten.

The fowrth verity, that you say is not written, is that the holy Ghost proceedeth both from the Father and the Son, as from one fountain. If you would read that which S. John hath written: I think you would not say that this verity is unwritten. Cum venerit paracletus, quem ego mittam vobis a patre, spiritū veritatis, qui a patre procedit: ill testimonium perhibebit de me. &c. When the Comforter shall come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the spirit of truth, that proceedeth from the Father: he shall testify of me. &c. And in the twenty Chapter he saith. Haec cum dixisset, insufflauit, & dixit eis: Accipite spiritum sanctum. When he had spoken these words, he breathed upon them, and he said unto them: Receyue ye the holy Ghost. &c. If breath may be said, to proceed from the person that breatheth: then may we say, that it is written, that the holy Ghost proceedeth from Christ, the son of God, even as it is written, that he proceedeth from God the Father.

I will be bold therefore, without anymore a do, to conclude, that these four verities, are not unwritten, but written in deed in the Canonical Scriptures.

The fifth unwritten verity, is the descending of Christ into hell: this you must have proved by plain words of Scripture, the lack whereof (as you say) hath caused many, now a days to deny it flatly. I am none of them that do so deny it. But that he descended in such manner, as your Catholics have taught, and as it hath been set forth in their Stage Plays, and in their payntinges in glass windows, & else where, I think would be as hard a thing for you to prove, any way, as for us to prove by plain words of Scripture, that he did in deed descend into hell.

I think you will grant that the speech used in the Creed, concerning Christ's descending into hell, is figurative, used by the figure Synecdoche: wherein the whole is understanded in the parte. For you will not (I think) say, that Christ's body went into hell: For that was buried and rested in the grave, till the time that it was restored to life again. Well. Then it was his spirit, that descended into hell • and not his body and spirit both. This being granted (as I think, you will not deny to do) we shall easily prove, even by plain words of the Scripture, that Christ descended into hell.

Saint Peter, in the third Chapter of his first Epistle, saith thus. Quia et Christus semel pro peccatis mortuus est, iustus pro iniustis: vt nos offeret Deo, mortificatus quidem carne, viuificatus autem spiritu. In quo & his qui in carcere erant spiritibus veniens, praedicauit. &c. For even Christ (saith Saint Peter ) did once die for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might offer us unto God: mortified in the flesh indeed, but quickened in the spirit, in which spirit, coming to those spirits that were in prison: he did preach unto them. Now, I think you will say, that I have proved by plain words of Scripture, that Christ descended into hell.

But howe great a matter were it, If this might not be proved by any plain Scripture: seeing the Nicene Creed (used in your Mass) maketh no mention of it.

And Damasus, that was Bishop of Rome. 360. years alter Christ's ascencion, when Julianus the Apostate was Emperor, hath in his Creed no word of it. And yet he concludeth his Creed with these words. Haec lege, haec creed, haec retine, huic fidei animam tuam subiuga: & vitam consequeris & premium a Christo. That is: Read these words, believe them, hold them fast, yoke thy soul to this Faith: and thou shalt obtain of Christ, both life and reward.

I note this, because I see that you shoot at this mark. To bind us, either to prove all your unwritten verities by Scripture: or else, for lack of such proof, to believe (as true) whatsoever your Catholic Church shall allow for truth, although the same be never so unnecessary to be proved, or received for truth.

Your sixth unwritten verity, is the custom of Baptizinge Infauntes. For this, I need not to write much. Our Savior Christ hath said: Suffer little Chyldren to come to me, and forbid them not: For to such doth the kingdom of God belong. And Saint Paul saith: That the Children of believing Parents, are holy. Therefore they are not to be holden from Baptism: more then the Jews children from Circumcision.

Your other three whyes are scarce worthy the answering. Why should we keep the Sunday now at all▪ and not the Saturday? Why should we not abstain now still, like Jews, from strangled meats, as the Apostles decreed? And why may not any Heretike, deny all the three Creedes. &c.

The first of these whyes, shall be answered with another why. As why may not the Church of Christians, being Lord's of the Sabaoth, choose for their Sabaoth, one day in seven, even that day, the observing whereof, they shall see to serve best for their own edification? And why did the Apostles (as it may be gathered, by that which Saint John hath written in his Revelation) choose the first day of the week to be their Sabaoth, and not the last? And why do you not remember that Saint Paul doth number the Sabaoth amongst such indifferent things, as are Meats and Drinckes, Festival days, and new Moons: which were but shadows of things to come? &c.

And to your second why, I say that the Apostles saw, that it was necessary for the time, to forbydde those Christians, that then lately had been Heathen men: to seed vpō strangled or blood. And needed not to abrogate it afterward, when they were further instructed, and knew how to use the Christiā lybertie without offense. A man might marvel, why any wise man, would move such a why as this.

Your third, & last why, may be fully answered with these words. Because there is nothing in those three Creedes: that may not easily be proved by the Scriptures. And thus are all your whyes answered.

But, do you not mark, howe these bedlem Catholics, would shake the foundation of our Christian faith: by bynding us to believe, that Christ's Catholic Church hath set forth (as infallibly true) and to be believed under pain of damnation) three Creedes, the Articles whereof, they are not able to prove by the Scriptures? do not these blind guides (think you) lead us a trym dance, towards shameless error and ignorauuce? And thus much to your fowrth Reason, which for good cause I have called, Fantasticall. Bothe, for that it seemeth that you persuade your • elwfe, that you handle yourself very finely, in all that you write therein: and also, for that you have uttered nothing therein, that may not well seem to spring out of a fantastical head.

The fifth Reason.

YOur fifth Reason, I have called Fradulent, because you do therein compare the laws and Scriptures of God, to the laws of men, made for civil policy and government. And the Judges & governors in civil policy, to the Ecclesiastical ministers, & governors of the Church of Christ, in matters of faith. This is fraudulently, to bring y ^• holy Scriptures (which of right are the toutchstone, for all men's judgments to be tried by) to be under the judgment of someone man, as your Pope▪ (who challengeth authority, above the general Councils) or of that number of men that shall be gathered together in a general Council (which do challenge authority above the Pope.) But God that is Author of all perfection, and doth dispose everything in a sweet and decent order: hath provided much better for his Catholic Church, here millitaunt on earth, then that it should be driven to seek for resolution of doubts, at the bands of such Judges as may err, as your Pope and general Councils have and may do.

The Father of lyghts, the giver of all good gifts, in whom there is no change or show of variableness. The Spirit of truth, that can neither deceive, nor be deceived: is ready at hand with everyone, that in humility of mind craveth wisdom, and will not suffer any such, long to be in doubt of anything, the knowledge whereof is necessary to salvation. If you (saith our savior) which be naught, do know how to give good gifts to your children. How much more shall your heavenly Father, give the holy spirit, to them that ask it of him? God's children may be bold (in such cases as I have spoken of) to crave God's spirit, and assure themselves▪ to receive it at his hands. But the proud and haughty minded, shall be as sure to find God their enemy.

This Judge is always ready in the scriptures, to open the vnderstādings of as many as do resort thither (with humility of mind) seeking there to be resolved of their necessary doubts.

That both your Popes, & general Councils have erred (& therefore may err) I will by God's help plainly prove.

First, if it were possible to persuade you, that to make a decree directly, contrary to the express commandment of God, is an error: then it should be an easy matter to cause you to confess, that both a Pope, and a general Council have erred.

For, the sixth general Council, holden at Constantinople, where .289. Bishops were gathered together: it was amongst other things decreede, that holy Images should be had in Churches, and that the same should be with great reverence worshipped. And this Council was holden when the first Agatho was Pope, and this decree was allowed by him. And afterward by Adrian the first Pope of that name.

So that one general Council, and two Popes, have erred in one decree, made against, and directly contrary to God's commandment. Thou shall not make to thy s • l • e any graven Image. &c.

John ths. 12. of that name, behaved him self so well in his nine years government: that one Historian calleth him, Sceleratum virum. A man given over to all wickedness. And another calleth him. Monstrum hominis. A Monster amongst men. And at the last he was slain, being taken in adultery.

But peradventure you will say: these faults proceed of human infirmity. But what will you then say to Sylvester the seconde, that gave him self to the Devil, that he might obtain y ^e Popedom, which he obtained in deed, and did enjoy it four years.

Benedictus the ninthe, lived so wickedly, governing the Church fifteen years: that one Historian saith, he was, Vir plane probrosus & infamis, that is: A man altogether worthy of reproaches, or evil reports, and infamous: And another saith: that after his death, he was seen in an horrible shape, and that be said thus. Iusto Dei iudicio damnatus sum, quia fine Lege vixi. I am dampened, even by the just judgment of GOD: because I lived without law.

If all this will not suffice you, consider I pray you▪ the Council of Basel: holden in the yere .1431. And Pope Eugenius, that in those days ruled the Church .16 years. This Engenius did once allow the decrees of that Council: And afterward he did disallow the same. Whereby, it is manifest that he erred, either in the first or in the last. And if the Popes authority be above the Council: then that Council did err in deposing that Pope. And if the Council be above the Pope: then did that Pope err in excomunicating that Council.

If you will take pains in reading the Histories; you shall find amongst the Popes, the Sadducees error, the Arians error, the Pellagians error maintained. Yea you shall find, and we do see manifestly, that at this day, your whole Church doth maintain the heresy of the Anthropomorphits. For you have in all your Churches, the Image of God the Father: resembling an old man with gray hairs, as though time had now made him old, as it doth all creatures.

But when your Church had three Popes at one time, John the .23. Gregory the .12. and Benedict the .13. To which of these would you have sent us, for resolution of our doubts▪ Yea, and when your Church was two years together, without either Pope or general Council: whether would you have wished us, to leave the Judgment in matters of Church controversies, at that time? I hope you will no longer wish us to leave the Scripture that never did, nor shall fail us, and depend upon such Judges as these, that have so often failed, and as yet, were never full agreed.

As for your comparison that you make betwixt the Churches and worldly kingdoms: it is not worth a Walnut. And your similitude of a wise Burgess in Parliament: we weigh not. We know, and confess, that men's laws are not, neither can be made so plain or perfect, but that it is necessary, that there be Judges that may have authority to discide those controversies y ^t may arise by occasiō of sinister construing of y ^e meaning of the words of the law, or by occasion of the darkness of the same. But where find you any such darkness, or imperfection, in the Scriptures of God? Dooth not David say: Lucerne pedibus meis verbum tuum, & lumē semitis meis. Thy word (saith David ) is a Lantern to my feet, and a light to my paths.

Take heed that you be not one of them that Isaiah speaketh of. That do call light darkness, and darkness light. &c.

I do grant, that there may some question arise amongst men, about the understanding of some places of Scripture: but this riseth not of the darkness that is in the scriptures, but of that darkness that is in man's understanding. Which till it be opened by the merciful goodness of God: cannot perceive those things that do belong to the spirit of God.

And we do think it necessary, that there be good, and learned men chosen, & put in authority in the Church, such as may (when need is) call together y ^e most grave, wise, and godly learned persons, in the fear of God, to delyberate for the good government of the Church, and to take order, that all things in the Church, may be done to the edification of the same, according to the rule of S. Paul. And if any proud or froward person, or any simple or ignorant person, do move any question: or his, or their misdemeanor, do cause any questiō to be moved, or any doubt to arise, about the true meaning of any part of the Scripture: We think it meet, that in these cases, those places of Scripture be reuerendly weighed, by those, wise, learned, grave, & godly men, so called together in the fear of God. And that the persons so in doubt, be by them certified, of the true meaning of those places. And that (if they will not yield to that interpretation that shall be made by those men, and proved by due circumstances, & conference of those places with other, to be the very meaning of the holy Ghost in those places) then we hold those men for Heretics, and do judge them worthy to be excommunicated.

Thus (if you will) you may see, that we are some thing wiser then your Burgess in Parliament: and not so worthy to be laughed to scorn as he: Although we do not make these men Judges of the scripture: but we do put them in trust to search the Scriptures, that both they and we may submit our selves, to that judgment, which they, by their reverend searching, shall find in the Scriptures. As for the forty places of Scripture that the Arians brought, for the defense of their horrible Heresy: we are able enough (by the help of God) to set forth plainly in their true meaning, and to withstand the Arians (without the help of our Catholic Church.) Notwithstanding the forty places of Scripture, that they bring more then we can bring for the truth.

And we say, as S. Augustine saith: that the Scriptures to mysse understanded, and mysse applied, are the Heretics bow, to shoot out their own venomous arrows. And as Vincentius saith: They are the sheep's clothing, which the Woolfe doth shroud her self in in &c.

Yea, and we confess, that the Devil him self, did allege scripture against our savior Christ, and did apply it as rightly as Boniface the eight did, when after he had one day shown himself in his Pontificalibus, that is, his Popely attire, and the next day in the robes of an Emperor: he said thus. Ecce duo gladij hic. Behold, here are two swords.

Another of your Popes, setting his foot upon the neck of Fredericus, the Emperor, said Super Aspidem & Basiliscum ambulabis, & conculcabis Leonem & Draconem. Upon the Asp and Basilisk, shalt thou walk, and upon the Lyon and Dragon shalt thou tread. And surely, as often as these wresters of the Scriptures, do speak unto us, the Devil doth (as Vincentius saith) speak by their mouths. &c.

But here I leave your Vincentius and you together, till at some more leisure. I may read him over. I can not think that he doth handle that place of Matthew, so grossly, as you would make us believe that he doth. But though he do, the matter is not great. For there is none that hath any sense or feeling, in the understanding of the Scriptures: but the same may easily see, that when our savior Christ said. Non tentabis Dominū Deum tuum: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God: He had a far other meaning, then that which you would make us believe that Vincentius doth gather of these words. Yea, Athens I did first write this answer, I have read over Vincentius, and have found that you do bely him.

But as one mistrusting the authority of your Vincentius: you clap in the neck of it, one sentence of S. Augustine: but you tell us not where we shall find it. But if those words be Augustine's (as it may be that they are) they will, and do serve much better against you and your sort: then they can against us.

And thus much to your fifth Reason: which I have called Fraudulent, for the cause afore mentioned.

The • ixt Reason.

YOur sixth and last Reason, most weyghtie of all, is this: Because, if we will refuse the authority, of the Churches absolute judgment upon the scriptures true sense: We shall seem plainly to deny the holy Ghost to be the spirit of truth. &c. This Reason I have called Fanaticall. For that in making so great an account of this Reason: you seem not to be in your right wits. What bedlem would abuse the words written in the fowreteene of John as you do: to prove, that because our Savior Christ did pray for, and obtain, and did give the holy Ghost, the spirit of truth, to his holy Apostles, and did promise that the same should remain with them forever, and instruct them in all truth: therefore the same holy Ghost must needs be, and remain still in that Church, which agreeth with the Church of the Apostles only in name, and is no more like the Apostles Church in doctrine and manners, then black is like to white, and God is like the Devil.

The Wise man saith, that Wisdom will not enter into a malicious soul: neither will she dwell in a body that is subject to sins. For the holy spirit of Wisdom, flieth from deceit. &c. And shall we think that the holy Spirit of truth hath been, and will be still amongst such a rabble of Popes, Cardinals, and other Catholics, as your own Histories make mention of, that have (besides their beastly life) made decrees directly, contrary to God's commandments? Yea, shall we think that the Spirit of Christ, dwelleth amongst those Catholics, that at this day do in the twenty and five Session of the Council of Trent, pronounce all such accurssed, as do show them selves, either by doctrine or otherwise, to mislyke with the having of Images in Churches: seeing the same is dyrectly contrary to the second commandment of God? Shall we think that the holy spirit of God, did guide those your Catholic Fathers, when they did in the same Session, blanche the counterfeiting of God's Majesty by an Image?

And think you that Isaiah the Prophet, if he were now living, would allow your applying of his words to such Catholics, and to their doings: seeing the same Prophet doth so earnestly speak against the making of Images, scorning both them and their makers, and plainly affyrming that they be good for nothing.

The Scribes, the Pharisees, the high Priests, and Doctors of the law: might as well have maintained, their corrupt Doctrine and Traditions against Christ and his Apostles (even by those words of Isaiah, that you apply for your purpose) as you may now by the same, maintain all the corrupt Doctrines and Traditions of your Catholics. For they did then persuade them selves (as you do now) that the promise was made to them, & could not but be performed to them. And that therefore Christ and his fauters, were Scismatiks and meet to be excommunicated, as by them they were, in deed, and as by you, we be now.

But to our great and unspeakable comfort: our savior Christ hath foretold us of this, saying. These words have I spoken unto you, that you should not be offended. They will excommunicate you, and the time will come, wherein whosoever shall hill you, will think that he doth God good service.

And that promise also, that you would s • me to rejoice so much in • ia in deed as comfortable to us, as you would have men think that it is to you.

We know that the Spirit of truth departeth not from Christ in his members the Church, the true and unfeigned Catholic Church. Neither do the words that the heavenly Father put into the mouth of Christ, his only begotten Son, depart out of his mouth, the true Catholic Church: and yet dare not we make that Church▪ Judge of that word. For they were not put into her mouth to that ende, that she should judge them: but that she should in all her doings, be judged tried, and directed by them.

As sottishe as you say, our opinion is: we are so far from holding, that every private man, may have leave to be his own Judge in understanding the Scripture: that we do not grant it to the best learned, but do leave it to him, that being (with humility of mind) sought in the Scriptures, will be found there, yea, even by Crafts men, such as was Peter, and his fellow fisher men. For he respecteth not men's persons, nor Occupations. And unto them that so seek him there (whether they be many or few) he will open the sense of vnderstading, that they may understand, as much as he knoweth to be meet for them to understand. And such as have that humble spirit, will not search for, nor show them selves destrous to know, anymore.

Well, now you conclude, upon that which you say we must needs grant, that is, that the Church is our mother, as Scripture saith. Well, I am glad that you are now become a Scripture man. But I pray you, where is that Scripture written, that saith, that your Catholic Church is our mother? It will be hard for you to find it.

I write not this, as one that would deny the Church that is the Spowse of Christ, to be the mother of Christians, in that sense that she is the Spowse of Christ: But I write thus, to let you see, that I like not with your manner of concluding upon this, being once granted. That this mother of ours, that must needs teach all her children, first to believe in God (for that faith cometh by hearing) and also to know the Scriptures, and is the pyller and sure stay of truth: must needs be the absolute Judge, and imperial Schoolemistresse, to teach us all, how to believe in God, and to understand the Scriptures.

This gear hangeth together like Iermans lyps (as the proverb is:) If you had said thus.

The Church (being the spouse of Christ) is our mother, and hath received commission, from her husband, and our father Christ, to teach us all those things that he hath taught and commanded her to do, & to teach us his children to do: wherefor, if we shall not hearken to her, as to our chief School mistress, under her husband and our father, so long as she teacheth nothing, but that which our father hath commanded her to teach us: we shall despise him, because we despise her, as it is written. Qui vos spernit, me spernit: He that despiseth you, despiseth me.

If you had written thus: a man might have made some sense of your words. But as you have written, you seem to make the gray Mare the better Horse. And to spoil our Father Christ of all his power: that our Mother, his Wife, may not be found without absolute power.

I see not therefore, why I may not for this blindness of your hearts, say as justly to you, as S. Paul doth to the Galatians. O insensati. &c. Oh you foolish fellows, who hath bewitched you, not to obey unto the truth? which even of Infants and sucking Babes (as it were) is discerned, as clear as the Sun. So that you must not disdain, though Master Trippe, do tryppe you in your own turn, as a seely seducer, to maintain (as you do all) so gross an opinion, being the forest in deed, for all such Foxes to litter their whelps in. And here you seem to have had one fling at Master Fox also: because you understood that he is one allowed in the Keepers warrant, to have conference with you.

I marvel, howe Master Turnebull escaped your frumpping pen. But to conclude this assercion. Acquite yourself as well as you can, why you should not all be suspected to be Antichristians, for as much as you do so stowtly maintain that man of sin, that setteth up himself above all that is called God, and sitteth in the Temple of God, and boasteth himself, as though he were God. Whome the Lord shall destroy, even with the breath of his mouthe. And that word, that you would have to be judged by your Antichristian Church: shall judge both Antichrist and his Church. And that holy Ghost that came down from Heaven, upon our Christ's Apostles, hath remained, and doth still remain, and to the ende of the world shall remain with his Catholic Church. That is, with that Church, which believeth, holdeth, and protesteth, that Catholic Faith, that Jesus Christ, commanded his Apostles, to teach Catholiquely, to all Nations and sortes of people's, in all parts of the world. Promising that the holy Ghost should always remain with the faithful, to direct them in all truth, and godliness of living.

Thus, having first considered, the words of our Savior, in sending us to the Scriptures, saying: Searche the Scriptures. &c. I have found that the conclusion that you make upon the manner of speech, that our Savior useth in that place of Saint John his Gospel, is not. Secundum vnanimen consensum Patrum: (that is) According to the agreeable consent of the Fathers: and therefore condemned by your Fathers, in the Council of Trent, in the fowrth Session.

Saint Augustine, doth account acurssed, whatsoever is taught, other then out of the Scriptures, of the Law and the Gospel. Lib. 3. Chap. 6. Against the Letters of Petilian. And in his book of Christian doctrine, and the .37. Chap. He saith: that without the authority of Scripture: our Faith doth but stacker or stumble. And again, in his .166. Epistle, he saith: That both Christ and his Church, are learned to be known in the Scriptures.

Basel saith, that whatsoever is taught without the holy Scripture, is sin.

Chrysostom, in his second exposition upon Matthew, saith: that the true Church cannot other wise be known then by the holy Scriptures. Homilia. 49.

Yea, Saint Augustine, in his first book that he wrote, against the Epistle of Parmenianus, and the second Chap: doth account it to be rashness, to give credit, to any, that doth not prove by Scripture, that which he affyrmeth.

I dare not therefore, give credit to that which you have written, till you prove it by Scripture.

As for your six Reasons that you stay upon, I have conceived, and do understand what they be. And as in the beginning of your Pamphlet, you desire: so have I taken Pen in hand, and have done what I can to confute them. And as I think, have done it sufficiently. If you can reply, do you take pen in hand again, and do what you are able. I will not refuse to try the truth of these matters, with you, or with the best on your side.

Haec est fides mea: quia vera, Christiana, Catholica, & Apostolica.

This is my Faith: because it is the true, Catholic, and Apostolic Faith.

Now to your Reasons.

YOur first Reason is grounded upon a false principle: for you imagine our church to be without a Ministry, to teach and open the Scriptures, which is not so, yea rather your Priests are mute, and not only that, but ye close up the book of God, & will not let it be read, to make the Scriptures wholly mute, least they might bewray your corruptions. But God be thanked, God hath opened the mouths of many by the Scriptures, to witness against your errors, and so judge you by the same words, if you amend not.

Your second Reason pretendeth that the Scripture is very full of hard & deep mysteries: surely I confess that the Scripture hath his hard Mysteries and hard places, but hath it not also his easy familyar doctrines? Is there not meat for all Estates, Milk for babes, and strong meat for good stomachs. But I dare be bold to avouch, that it was Satan's policy, to rob the people of the whole use of the Scriptures, under pretence of ambiguity, as though the whole Scriptures were nothing else, but Rydles. As for the trial of hard places, the learned have set down two excellent rules, which I marvel you can reject: the one is conference of Scripture with Scripture, the other is begging of wisdom of God, who giveth it to the Babes & little ones, and hydeth it from the wise in their own conceit, who stumble at plain places, not being dyrected by God's spirit. But howsoever they labor to try the spirits, or whatsoever knowledge they do attain, they leave the suueraigntie of the judgment to the word.

Your third Reason, grounded on Saint Peters testimony▪ 2. Peter. 1. Erreth, in not considering what the Apostle meaneth, by private or not private, you seem to place it in the multitude of persons, that give the interpretation: but the Apostle placeth it in the authority of the Author of the word. Therefore, one Prophet speaking in the Lord's name, being truly sent from the Lord, is more to be believed, then the whole pack of Priests, resisting of malice, or ignorance, and they being many, are private, and one Prophet, being but one, is not private.

Secondly, you pretend that every man may interpret the Scriptures as he lysteth, which is a false charge. But we desire them, and allow them to read the Scriptures, and to see whether those things which we teache them, be so or no, according to the example of the faithful. Acts. 17. And as they are commanded by Christ, and the Apostle. 1. John. 4.

In your fowrth Reason, while you went about to temper our pride, as you say, it seemeth you distēpered your own wits, in putting down, so many things in y ^e name of unwritten verities, which notwithstanding are written: you ask of the matter when I suppose ye mean y ^e terms, brought in by the Fathers to express the doctrine more plainly. As the word Trinity, person, and other, to make plain the doctrine against the Arians. Here you were foully ouerseen. And you would make as believe, that the Church hath authority to point us new • Articles of faith, without warrant of scripture: she was wont to challenge some liberty in Ceremonies, & indifferent things, but you give her power in Articles of faith.

Your fifth Reason stumbleth on the false principle, whereon you grounded your first Reason, where you judge no government to be in our Church, because we give the highest rule to the word, & govern thereby, as by a most perfect law: after which no new Parliament need to be called, to add or diminishe from it, but all men of all estates ought to put to their hands to see it executed and kept: for the which cause (if they at any time assemble) the word written is their direction.

Against your sixth Reason, I avouch that he that appealeth to the judgment of the written word, doth yield a most weighty Reason, to ratify the sending of the holy Ghost to his Church, and that it is the spirit of truth. For 〈◊〉 the Apostles were so mightily endued with the spirit, that they both taught, and left in writing, the whole Councils of God, enough to make the man of God perfect. &c: Then the Church that challengeth the promise of that spirit, wherewith they were endued, must subscribe to that truth which they have left written: for whatsoever is not agreeabl • thereto, cometh from another spirit, opposing it self against the spirit of God, which is never contrary to it self.

Thus I have breeflie laid down 〈…〉 which I could have done more at large: but Ma • ster Crowley hath given you matter enough, and yet more then either he or I can write, is set down by Chemnicius and others, whose Treatises you might do well, either to read for your learning, or to impugn if you be able.