Two Treatises Against the Papists

In the answer of a true Christian, &c.

• Pag. 3. line 35. Lithuania read Lithūanda.
• 5.3. writing r. writings.
• 10.10. the scripture, read the book of scripture.
• 13.17. then, read thou. and line 19. you, read thou.
• 15. line the last. Tiberius. read Liberius.
• 19.4. you, read the. and line 10. Ca. line. 58. read Carolines. 8. and line 19. Mercamas, r. Marranias.
• 20.9. favor, read honor.
• 23.26. the prince, read the printers.
• 24.1. put out and.
• 25.9 not for his, r. for his.
• 29.10. unity of mind, r. unity of faith & mind.
• 30.3. in the places above rehearsed. in diverse places of his epistles, a • lib. 3. epist. 14. and 15.16. &c.
• 41.30. Rhenes, r. Reims.
• 49.5. the the, r. that the. & the 12. r. & the Catho. &c.
• 52.13. in Brytish, read in the Brytish.
• 63.14. about the articles, r. about the chiefest articles.
• 64.20. put out (that hilde.) and the 24. here, rea. sore.
• 67.21. which cannot, rea. which you cannot.
• 68.4. in a name, read in a manner.
• 69.4. prorsus opinemur, r. prorsus non opinemur. and 34. universally, r. universality. and 36. which you do, r. which you do not.
• 70.17. proponēda, r. praeponēda. & 22. in a. r. in the. & 24. when. r. whē the.
• 71.20. where, rea. were, and the 22. to, read in.
• 78.26. that you • awe a bastard church, r. that you being a bastard church have.
• 87.34. Commentualls, rea. Conuentualles.
• 91.32. that he. rea. then he.
• 92.30. cultiued, r. continued.
• 97.1. your, read yours.
• 99.13. there, rea. therefore. & 14. vinci, read vince

In the answer of a true Christian, &c.

• pag. 14. li. 6 for that, r. thē.
• 22.21. conseites, r. conserves.
• 23.19. they made a cushiō, read they made marriage a chushion.
• 25.37. fast, read fact.
• 26.37. canche, rea. couche.
• 30.35. greatest, rea. great.
• 31.1. read instruments for the defense.
• 46.33. for, read far.
• 47.30. sins, read sinner.
• • 9.19. predicate, rea. praeiudicate.
• 64.37. fauteles, r. fruictles.
• 87.6. heavy, read hearie.
• 89.2. as, read or.
• 92.6. bitter, read better.
• 95.31. paltinge, r. peltinge.
• 102.15. r. liklihodes numbered.
• 121.29. conuenientes, read conuenienter.
• 127.13. r. to death, & a sin not &c. & li. 28.10. rea. to.
• 139.34. vnrecōcyled, read that are reconciled.
• 143.2 you. read her.
• 151.27. & hath, rea. having.
• 156.5. cannot, read can stand. &c.
• 205.29. to his brother, rea. to his brethren.
• 210.14. fast, read fact.
• • 24.31. read & forsakers.
• 232.38. sorowing, r. saying
• 238.10. clame, r. exclame.
• 248.1. an, read any.
• 249.23. pray, read prayed.
• 255.19. Tecta, read Tecla.
• 259.37. toti, read hi.
• 262.7. after writings make a full point, & l. 10. Troianus, read Traianus. & 14. Barlaū, r. Barlaam. & 16. Ephraim, r. Ephreem
• 265.27. and 29. Rhenamus, read Rhenanus.
• 268.36. knaw, rea. knave.
• 277.17. should seme, read as it should seme.
• 283.2. Capth, r. Chapter.
• 284.30. after decree, read concerning that which was not &c.
• 286.31. put out he.
• 299.19. had, read hath.
• 295.11. xemia, rea. xenia.
• 307.8. mistrusted, read misconstrued.
• 316.2. you will, r. you will not. & 23. then, rea. thou.
• 334.19. criall, read trial.
• 335.31. put out, in.
• 347.1. same, read sun & right, read light.
• 350.6. r. & deceiveth &c.
• 361.16. unto, read in.
• 361.29. profatam, rea. profoctam.
• 364.31. we before, read before we.
• 378.17. vindicemus, read iudicemus. and line 37. either, read other.
• 373.11. stringe, r. springe.
• 374.10. Consilio Meleuitano, r. Cōcilio Mileuitano.
• 382.19. Commō, r. Cannon.
• 386.31. degree, r. pedigree.
• 391.25. thou, read there.
• 396.1. God, read man.
• 397.24. hidden, r. sudden.
• 399.15. as for witness, read for witnesses.
• 406.6. the matter, read thy matter.
• 409.32. make a full point after in deed. and line 22. put out the full point after describeth.
• 435.16. sparte, r. sponte. and line. 29. superstition, read supposition.
• 441.34. parleis, rea. paruis.
• 443.2. when, rea. where. & 31. li. aliquid, r. aliquod.
• 447.2. strife, read stripe.
• 455.33. named, r. varied. & li. 34. shall, rea. should.

The proposition of the Adversary.

C Hrist did commit at his departure hence, the testimony of that truth, for which he died, and the conversion of the Nations to the belief in him, to the true church of God, which then stood principally, and almost only in the persons of the Apostles and a few more, that by their preachings, and those afterward of their calling, the Christian religion might be planted in all Nations, beginning at Jerusalem, and so proceeding to the coasts and corners of the earth.

AN ANSWERE TO THE PROPOSITION.

I Grant that our Savior Christ, at his departure hence, commanded his Apostles as principal members of his Church, though not the greatest part of it, to preach the doctrine which he confirmed by his death unto all nations, beginning at Jerusalem, and so forth according to his saying: Go therefore and teach all Nations baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things what so ever I have commanded you. Matth. 28. Whereuppon I challenge the Papist that if he be able to prove that the doctrine of popery is all that truth, and nothing but that truth, for which Christ died, and which he commanded the Apostles to teach, I will acknowledge the popish church to be the Church of Christ.

The first article containeth 3. demands.

IF you mean by Christians, true Christians, and by the faith of Christ, the true faith of Christ, I answer: only the true Church of Christ, hath had the word of God and sacraments, as means which God useth, to subdue all nations unto the obedience of the faith, as was the primitive Church of the Apostles, which hath continued unto this day by succession, not of persons, and places, but of faith and truth, wherefore if the Papist can prove, that we hold not the same faith and truth, unto which the Apostles converted the nations, we refuse to be called the Church or Congregation of Christ.

But if by Christians and Christian faith, you mean all them that profess the name of Christ, in the whole world, I answer, that the true Church of Christ, did not convert them all, for in Ethiopia, there are yet people, converted by the false apostles, which taught circumcision, and observation of the law, in which heresy they continue unto this day, and it is manifest by all histories, that the nations of the Alanes, Goths, and Vandals, were first converted by the Arians.

WE are members of that Church, which converted all lands in the earth that are converted, from Idolatry, Gentility, Judaism, or heresy, to the true Religion of Christ, and we affirm that the Apostles taught none other faith in steed of true Christiantie, but that which we hold, as we are ready to prove by the word of God: And at this day the most parte of Europe, is converted from Idolatry, heresy, and Antichristianitie, unto the same true faith, that we maintain, as in England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Germany, Denmark, Suetia, Bohemia, Polonia, by public authority, in Spaigne, and Italy, a great number under persecution and tyranny. Also of the Jews, no small number are converted to our religion, since the rising up of the Gospel in our days.

BEcause you mean by the common Catholic, not the true Catholic, but the popish church: First I deny that ever the popish church converted any people, to the true faith. Secondly, I deny that the popish church hath converted all nations, to the profession of Christ: For, it is shown before, that the false Apostles, and Arians, converted some nations to the profession of Christ's name, but yet to false religion, And it is also manifest by histories, that the Grecians, whom the papists count no parte of their church, but schismatics, converted the Moscouites first of all, unto the profession of the name of Christ, which yet continue in their religion, being neither the true faith, nor yet popish religion. As for the popish church, as it is certain, that it hath perverted and corrupted all partes of the Latin, or Western Church, with Idolatry and false religion, so it shall be hard for the papists to prove, that it hath converted any Nation from Gentility to the popish religion, except some partes of Germany, and them by force of arms, rather than by preaching, and reaching, as appeareth by the conversion of Liuonia, Anno Domini 1200. of Prussia, Anno Domini 1254. and of Lithuania, Anno Domini 1386. wherefore I conclude that seeing I have shown that our Church, holding the true doctrine of the Apostles, is that which converted all nations to true religion, and that the popish church, hath not converted any people to true religion, nor all people to the profession of the name of Christ, this challenger, whosoever he be, do the recant.

The second article containeth 4. demands.

I Aunswere, it was the Church of Christ, and not the Popish church, which hath commended the books of holy Scripture, to be believed of all true Christians where soever they be, although it be the office of the holy Ghost, to open the hearts of men, and to form them that they may believe the scripture to be true, like as it is the office of the scripture or word of God, to try and examine, whether it be the spirit of God that persuadeth us to believe anything, so the spirit beareth witness to the word and the word to the spirit. As for the popish church it could not induce the Christian people to give credit to the scripture in all pointes, because she is contrary to the scripture in many pointes: and even in the chiefest pointes of Christian Religion, namely in pointes concerning the glory of God, and the salvation of mankind, giving the glory of God to dead men, and dumb Images, and denying the mercy of God, pourchased by the only sacrifice of Christ's death, to be the only cause of man's salvation. Finally seeing it is manifest by the answer to the first article, that the popish church did not convert all nations, to the profession of the Christian faith, it is evident thereby, that the popish church did not induce all them, that are called Christians, to give credit to the books of the holy Bible, as this challenger would have it to be thought.

THe Church of Christ, hath not an absolute authority to allow or refuse books of the scripture, but a judgment to discern true writing from counterfaicts, & the word of God, of infallible verity, from y ^e writing of men, which might err, & this judgment she hath, not of her self, but of the holy Ghost: as for the popish Church, it cannot be said to have this judgment of discerning the scripture of God from other writings, not only because she is so blind that she cannot discern between y ^e Canonical books of the scripture, from the Apocrypha writings, as appeareth by receiving the books of the Maccabees, Ecclesiasticus, &c. to be of equal authority with y ^e books of the Law, Psalms, &c. but also because she is so presumptuous, as to compel men to believe, that Customs, and traditions, writings of doctors, decrees of Popes, and Councils, are equal with the authority of God his word, yea are of force, to alter and change the law of God, and the institution of Christ, set forth unto us in y ^e scripture. And although she boast that she receiveth all the books of scripture, yet this proveth no more that she is the Church of Christ, than was the churches of the Arians, Donatists, Novatians, Euthychans, & other heretics, which received the Bible, as well as the Popish church.

THe providence of God, hath always preserved the Scripture, both from the violence of tyrants, & from the falsehood of heretics, and hath never suffered the true Church, to be destitute of the necessary use thereof. But the popish church, hath not kept the scripture for the necessary use of the people, which hath so kept it in an unknown tongue, that the people could have no use, much less the necessary use thereof: wherefore if this be a note of the Catholic Church, to keep the word of God for the necessary use of God his people, it is plain that the popish church is not the Catholic Church, which hath kept the scripture so, that God his people could have no use thereof.

And if the only custody of the scripture from corruption of heretics, be a sure note of the Church, why is not the Greek Church, the Catholic Church, which unto this day hath kept the scripture as safely as the popish church? why are not other Estern Churches of Asia, which never acknowledged the Pope, or popish religion, true Churches, which likewise have preserved the scripture, as we have seen of late, that the new Testament is printed in the Syrian tongue, at themperours charges, for the increase of Christian faith among them. And finally, why are not the Jews, the Catholic Church, which have kept the Old Testament in Hebrew, more faithfully than ever the Papists. And because they boast of safe preserving of the scriptures, all men, that are learned in the tongues can testify, in how corrupt a Latin translation they have kept the scriptures, both of the old and of the New Testament.

Our Congregation, which is the body of Christ, hath ever had, both right and possession of the inestimable treasure of the word of Christ her head: as appeareth by this, that our Church and Congregation believeth nothing but that she learneth in it, acknowledgeth that all things profitable to salvation, are sufficiently contained in it, and finally in all things submitteth her self to the judgment of it. But the popish church, which believeth many things contrary to the scripture, teacheth many things beside the scripture, necessary to salvation, and refuseth to have her faith, doctrine, and ceremonies, to be judged by the scripture, neither hath, neither ever had, any right to the scripture, though she have never so many books of them in possession. Wherefore these things considered, this challenger doth recant.

The third article containeth 5. demands.

THere may be diverse good reasons shown, why your Church, commonly known to be the church of Antichrist, did not as well corrupt the text of the Testament, as the true religion contained therein. First, because she could not, the copies thereof being so many, by the providence of God dispersed throughout the world. Secondly, because she thought it not so needful, having other means to work her devilish devise: For, although she could not corrupt the scripture, yet it made the less matter, because she found means to diminish, and control the authority thereof by advancing decrees of men, Popes, and Councils, to be equal or of greater authority than the scripture. Thirdly, because she would be less in fear, to be reproved by the scripture, she provided that the knowledge thereof, should be hidden from the unlearned people by a strange tongue, and from the learned, by the tedious mazes of questions, devised by her Canonistes, and Sententiaries. Fourthly, because she submitted all interpretation of the scripture, to her own judgment, and therefore would not be controlled by the judgment thereof, but would always expound it, as it liked her best. As appeareth by Ockam, and Duns, who though they confess, that transubstantiation, seemeth to them, contrary to the scripture, and reason, yet they believed it, because of the authority of the church, and for none other cause. These are the reasons, why the Romish church did not, as well corrupt the text of the Testament, as the true Religion. And yet how corrupt that Latin translation is, which they would needs thrust vpō us, is sufficiently known to all learned men, even in such texts, as are the most coulerable places for the defense of Popish doctrine. I will give one example for all: They allege the text 1. Cor. 10. Qui stat, videat ne cadat. He that standeth, let him take heed he fall not, against the certainty of faith, whereas the Greek hath, not he that standeth, but, he that thinketh he standeth, let him take heed he fall not: Thus the popish church cannot altogether excuse her self, from corrupting of the text of the Testament, whether it was of fraud, or of ignorance, or of negligence, the Lord knoweth.

BEcause it was against her own estimation, and profit, which are the chief ends for which popish Prelates maintain popish religion. Take away the Popes prerogative, which is contrary to the sense of God his word, down go Cardinals, Legates, Prothonotaries: down goeth all the Court of Rome, take away works of supererogation, which are contrary to the Scripture, down go Abbeys, Priories and Chantries. Take away the sacrifice of the Mass, & Purgatory, which are contrary to the word of God, down goeth the estimation, and gains of all the popish clergy: And this is the cause, why the popish church kept not so safely, and faithfully, the true sense of God his word, as she preserved the word it self, although she preserved not the word itself, in such safety as becomed the Church of Christ.

WE do not challenge credit to our selves, in any point, so presumptuously as the Papists, that men must believe it because we affirm it. But because we prove it to be true, by the word of God. And therefore for the meaning of the word, you should believe us rather than them, because our grounds & proves are better then theirs, or else we require not to be believed better than they.

IF we had no better ground to persuade us, of the authority of God his book, than y ^e testimony of your Church, you may be sure we would not believe it. But because we have most steadfast assurance of God his spirit, for the authority of that book, with the testimony of the true Church in all ages. If you say it is God his book, we believe you not, because you say so, but because we know it to be true. But if you bring out a false sense, we believe you not, because we know it to be false, & are able to prove by the word of God, that it is contrary to the meaning of the holy Ghost. To be plain with you, we give as much credit to your Church, as to the devil. When the devil saith: it is written: He shall give his angels charge over thee, and with their hands they shall hold thee up that thou dash not thy foot against a stone. We believe that this is the word of God. But when he avoucheth this to be y ^e meaning of it, that we may cast down our selves from a Church steeple, without danger, we do not believe him, because we know this sense is contrary to another Scripture, which saith: Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God. So when you say these words are the Scripture of God: This is my body: We believe it, because we know it to be true. But when you say this is the meaning of these words. This bread is turned into my natural body, we believe you not, because it is contrary to all places of Scripture, which prove the truth of Christ his humanity or natural body. Thus I show you why we believe you, if you say the Scripture is God his word, namely because we know it to be true, & why we believe you not, saying this is the meaning of it, that is, because we know by the word of God that it is false.

IF you mean by the old Church the primitive Church, whose testimony of the word of God we allow & believe, I deny that the primitive Church did affirm Luther to be an heretic, or the doctrine that he taught, which we hold,, to be heresy, but I am able to prove, that the primitive Church, from which you have received the Scripture, affirmeth your doctrine to be heresy, & your Church y ^e Church of Antichrist.

But if by y ^e old known Church, you mean the Church of old, known to be the Church of Antichrist, which is the popish church,, we believe the devil if he speak the truth, and we believe not an Angel coming from heaven, if he bring any other Gospel, than S. Paul delivered to the Galatians. Therefore when your church affirmeth Luther to be an heretic, seeing we know that Luther did not obstinately, and maliciously err, in any article of faith, concerning the substance of religion, we do not believe her: and specially because she is a partial witness against him, whom God used to discover, so much of her wickedness, to her great hindrance, there is no credit to be given unto her, when she goeth about to deface him, by sclaunderous names, and false accusations. Thus I have shown these things that you require, both by good reason, and also by scripture: Therefore if I may believe you, you recant.

The fourth article containeth 3. demands.

I Aunswere, the true Catholic Church, hath always resisted all false opinions, contrary to the word of God, as her duty was, and fought against them with the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God, and by the aide of God obtained the victory, and triumphed over them. So did Paul overcome the Jews Act. 18. So did the fathers of the primitive Church, from time to time, confute heresies, by the scriptures, and declare in their writings, that by them they are to be confuted, for examples sake of a great number, I will allege a few. Hylarius, writing of the blessed Trinity against heretics Lib. 4. saith: Cessent ita{que} propriae hominum opiniones, ne{que} se vltrà Diuinam constitutionem, humanae iudicia extendant: Sequamur ergo aduersus irreligiosas, & impias de Deo institutiones, ipsas illas diuinorūm dictorum authoritates, & vnumquod{que} eorum ipso de quo quaeritur auctore tractabimus. Wherefore let opinions proper to men give place, and let not men's judgments stretch them selves further than God his constitution. Therefore against these vnreligious and ungodly opinions of God, let us follow the very authority of God his sayings, and handle everyone of them, by the aide of him, about whom the question is: Thus Hylarius, would have heresies against the Trinity, to be confuted, not by men's judgment, but by God his word. Basilius magnus, very often testifieth, that he would have all good things, proved by the scripture, and all evil things confuted by the same, In his moralles Dist. 26. Every word or deed, must be confirmed by the testimony of holy Scripture, for the persuasion of good men, and the confusion of wicked men: And in his treatise of Faith: we know, that we must now, and always, avoid every voice or opinion, that is differing from the doctrine of our Lord. And in his short definitions to the first interrogation: whether it be lawful or profitable for a man to permit unto him self, to do or say any thing, which he thinketh to be good, without the testimony of the holy Scripture? he answereth: forasmuch as our Savior Christ saith: that the holy Ghost shall not speak of him self, what madness is it, that any man should presume to believe anything, without the authority of God his word. By these, and many other places, it is manifest, that Basilius, would have heresies and false opinions, confuted by the holy Scriptures.

Chrysostom, upon Luke cap. 16. saith, that the ignorance of the scriptures, hath bred heresies, and brought in corrupt life, yea it hath turned all things vpsidown, by which it appeareth, by what means he would have heresies kept away, namely by knowledge of the scriptures. It were to long to rehearse all the places of S. Augustine, by which his mind appeareth, that he would have the Church, sought only in the scriptures, and heretics confuted, only by the scriptures, to whose only authority in many places, he professeth that he him self will be bound, as Epist. 19. ad Hieronymum. Epist. 48. Vincentio. Epist. 111. Fortunatiano. Epist. 112. to Paulina, contra Faustum. lib. 11. cap. 5. Contra Cresconium Grammaticum, lib. 2. cap. 31. & 32. de Baptismo contra Donatistas lib. 2. cap. 2. De meritis & remission peccatorum, contra Pelagianos lib. 3. cap. 7. De naturae & gratia cap. 61. De gratia Christi contra Pelagium cap. 43. De nuptijs & concupiscentia lib. 2. c. 29. In these places, S. Augustine preferreth the authority of the Canonical scripture, before all writings of Catholic Doctors, of Bishops, of Councils, before all customs, and traditions. But that he would have the true Church sought only in the scriptures, it is manifest, by these places, first in his 48. Epistle to Vincentius. Nos autem ideo certi sumus, neminem se a communion omnium gentium just separare potuisse, quia non quis quam nostrum in iustitia sua, sed in scriptures Divines quaerit Ecclesiam. speaking of the Donatists, he saith. We are suer, that no man could justly separate him self from the communion of all Nations, because none of us seeketh the Church in his own righteousness, but in the holy Scriptures. So if the Papists would not presume of their own righteousness, but seek the Church of Christ in the scriptures, they would not separate them selves from the communion of Christ's Church, now by God his grace enlarged farther than the Popish church. Also in his book De vnitate Ecclesiae. cap. 2. he hath these words. Inter nos autem & Donatistas quaestio est, vbi sit Ecclesa. Quid ergo facturi sumus? in verbis nostris • am quaesituri, an in verbis capitis sui Domini nostri Jesus Christi • puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus, qui veritas est, & optime nouit corpus suum. The question is between us, and the Donatists, where the Church should be, what shall we do then? shall we seek her in our own words, or in the words of her head our Lord Jesus Christ? I think we ought rather to seek her in his words which is y ^e Truth, and best knoweth his own body. So the question is at this day, between the Papists and us, where the church is, let us seek in God his word, there we shall easily find her. To the same intent, he speaketh in the third, fiueth, and sixtenth Chapters of the same treatise. Furthermore, that he would have heretics confuted only by the scriptures, he showeth likewise in many places of his works: for writing against Maximinus the Arian, lib. 3. cap. 14. a place commonly and often cited, he saith: but now, neither must I preiudicially bring forth the Council of Nice, nor then the Council of Arimine, for neither am I bounden to the authority of the one, nor you of y ^e other, but let matter with matter, cause with cause, reason with reason, contend by authority of the scriptures, not proper to any, but ind • fferent witnesses to both partes. If Augustine would not oppress the Arians, by the authority of the Nicene Council, which was the first, and the best general Council, that ever was, but only by the scriptures, how much less would he charge them with other authorities, that the Papists allege, beside the authority of holy scriptures. And in his book De Vni • ate Ecclesiae against the Donatists the 16. chapter: Sed vtril ipsi Ecclesiam teneant, non nisi diuinarum scripturarum Canonicis libris oftendant, quia nec nos &c. But whether they hold the church or no: let them show none other wise, but by the canonical books of holy Scripture, for we our selves do not say, that men ought to believe us, that we are in the Church, because we hold that Church which Optatus of Mileuitum, or Ambrose of Millayn, or innumerable other Bishops of our communion, have commended to us, or because it is set forth by the Councils of our fellow bishops, or because so many miracles of hearing requests, or healinges, are don in the holy places, which our fellowship doth frequent in the whole world, so that the bodies of Martyrs, which were hidden so many years (which thing if they will ask they may hear of many) were revealed unto Ambrose, and that at the same bodies, one that had been many years blind, very well known in the city of Millayn, received his eyes, and eye sight, either because this man dreamed, or that man was ravished in the spirit, and heard a voice, that he should not join himself to Donatus, or that he should depart from the faction of Donatu • : for whensoever such things are don in the Catholic Church, they are to be allowed, because they are don in the Catholic church▪ but the church it self is not therefore proved to be Catholic, because these things are done in it. By this Augustine declareth first that heretics must be confuted, only by the scriptures, and secondly that neither Councils, succession of bishops, universality, miracles, visions, dreams, nor revelations, are the notes to try the Catholic church, but only the scriptures. Moreover in his book De Pastoribus cap. 14. Quaerit infirmus Ecclesiam &c. A weak person seeketh the Church, he wandreth and seeketh the church▪ what sayest you? The church is of Donatus side. Enquire for the shepherds voice, Read me this out of some Prophet, read me this out of some Psalm, rehearse me it out of the law, rehearse it out of the Gospel, rehearse it out of the Apostle, out of them do I rehearse the Church dispersed over all the world. And a little after: Tu accusas non Euangelium &c. Thou accusest, not the Gospel, thou accusest not the Prophet, not the Apostle of whom this voice speaketh to me I believe him other I believe not. But thou wilt bring forth decrees, I will also bring forth decrees, should I believe thine? believe thou mine likewise. I believe not thine, neither do thou believe mine, then let men's writings be laid away and let God's word sound between us: bring me one place of scripture for Donatus side &c. These places may sufficiently declare by what means this doctor thought the Church should overthrow heresies, namely by the word of God only, which thing also Leo, the first bishop of Rome, in his Epist. 10. ad Fabianum contra Eutychen plainly confesseth saying: Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt, qui cum ad cognoscendam veritatem &c. But those men fall into this folly, which when they are hindered by any doubt to know the truth, have not recourse to the voices of the Prophets, not to the writings of the Apostles, not to the authority of the Gospel, but to them selves. And therefore they become, masters of error, because they have not been scholars of truth. Of the same judgment was the whole Council of Constantinople the sixth, as appear Actione 18. Si igitur omnes simpliciter &c. Therefore if all men from the beginning would have simply and without subtlety taken upon them the preaching of the Gospel, and have been content with the constitutions of the Apostles, surely matters should have been well, and in good case, neither should painful contention, have been exercised against the authors of heresies, nor against the favorers of priests. Here the Council confesseth, that the heretics and schismatics grow so fast, because they were not beaten down, by preaching of the Gospel and authority of the scriptures. Thus I have declared by example, and authority of these Fathers, that the true Church of Christ, hath convicted all heretics, only by the scripture.

THe true Church of Christ, hath always stood steadfast, and inseperable, from Christ her head, when all heretics have been, and shall be confounded. But the true Church hath not always flourished in worldly peace and tranquility: for until the time of Constantine the great, which was Anno Dom. 339. the Church had small rest from cruel persecution in most places: and soon after again under the Emperors Constantius, Constance, and Valens, it was greatly infected with the heresy of Arius, what time also Tiberius Bishop of Rome, was infected with the same heresy. After that when Julianus the Apostate, was Emperor, the temples of Idols were opened, and gentilitie again restored, so that the Church suffered great detriment. To be short, when the barbarous Goathes, Vandals, Alanes, and other Idolatrous or heretical nations destroyed the Empire, the Church of God suffered a great Ecclipse. But when Mahomet, in the East, & Antichrist the Pope, in the West, seduced the world with most detestable heresy, then was fulfilled that which was revealed to S. John in the 12. of the Apocalypse, the woman clothed with the Son, which you yourself confess to be the Church, was so persecuted by the Dragon, that she fled into the wilderness, there to remain a long season. Where she hath not decayed, but ben always preserved, until God should reveal Antichrist, and bring her again into open light, which (his holy name be praised) is now brought to pass in our days, to our inestimable comfort, and his everlasting glory.

IT hath been already proved sufficiently, that the true Catholic Church which is led only, by the word of God, as a most infallible rule, hath overthrown heresies of all sortes. But the popish church which refuseth the only weapon, by which heresies are cut down, to be sufficient for that purpose, never was nor shall be strong enough to encounter with heretics, therefore she practiseth to vanquish those whom she counteth for heretics, not by authority of the Scriptures, but by fire and sword, and cruel war, as appeareth by her dealing with the Waldenses, Albigenses, Bohemians, and in our days with the true Christians. But where her power of fire and sword could not prevail, there hath she not overthrown such as she condemneth for heretics, namely the Grecians church, & all other churches of Asia, and Africa, which unto this day will not acknowledge her doctrine to be Catholic, nor her authority to be lawful. Wherefore seeing the Popish church neither hath confuted those that are heretics in deed, nor subdued those whom she counteth to be heretics, if you be a good as your word, you recant.

The fiueth article containeth 3. demands.

ONely the Church of Christ, by Christ's appointment, hath exercised true discipline upon offenders, Although by means of persecution, she could not always practice the same as she would.

THe Church of Christ only, hath had lawful authority to exercise discipline: but as it is said before, she hath not continually practiced the same, because she could not, being hindered by persecution, and dispersion. Concerning excommunication, she hath practiced it according to the word of God, and against such offenders, as the scripture judgeth worthy of that severe punishment: As for degradation, and suspension, it may be doubted what you mean by them: If you understand by degradation, that such persons as the Church hath tried unmeet, either for doctrine or manners, to execute the office of preaching, and ministering the sacraments, she hath displaced and rejected from that charge: she hath also practiced drgradation: And if you mean by suspension, that when the accusation of a man's doctrine or life was uncertain, that she hath willed him to cease from executing his office, until his cause were tried either good or evil, she hath also used suspension: but if by degradation and suspension, you mean those foolish and wicked ceremonies, which the popish church now useth and so termeth, I deny that ever the true Church of Christ had to do with such degradations and suspensions.

IT is proved before, that true discipline belongeth to the true Church, whereof we are a part, which Church is sufficiently proved to be the spouse of Christ, because she is ruled in all things by his only voice: And therefore all congregations of heretics, which depart from the true word of God, though they take upon them, to exercise discipline, by excommunication or otherwise, it is not to be regarded, and lest of all the Popish church, where remaineth nothing of discipline and excommunication, but the very names: for what call you popish discipline? is not that it which they use in Lent, whisking men on the heads, and women on the hands, with white rods which they them selves call discipline? Or is it the severe punishment that they use against offenders by excommunication, suspension, interdighting &c. First, it is manifest they have no excommunication by Christ's appointment, for neither it is executed by the persons appointed by God's word, nor against such offenders only as God his word appointeth: for whereas our Savior Christ appointeth the order of that discipline, to the Congregation of such as are wise, godly, and careful of men's health, which first shall labor by fatherly admonition and wholesome exhortation, to bring the offenders to repentance, whom if they refuse to hear, they are to be reputed for heathens and publicanes, the Pope contrariwise referreth the same to profane and vnreligious officers, which are more desirous to gain the fees of absolution, than by bringing the party to repentance, to save him from excommunication. Moreover whereas by God's word, excommunication is the last and most grievous punishment, that the Church can enjoin against any, of whom there is any hope of salvation, and therefore ought not to be practiced but for heinous offenses, the Popish church maketh it serve for every trifling matter, yea for petty debts and all, then cometh in interdightings & suspensions of places, as churches and towns, yea whole realms, for one man's fault: what likelinesse hath this unto the discipline of Christ's church set forth in the scriptures, and practiced by the fathers? with what face can you Papists affirm, they have discipline, in their Church, whē all penaunces for most horrible offenses, may be bought out for money, and an open market thereof set up at Rome, with the prices rated, what men must pay for everything that they buy: as absolution for him that hath killed his father, or mother, brother, sister, or wife Turones 4. Ducat. 1. Ca. line. 5.8. For an heretic before he have abjured 36. Turones. and 9. ducates. For a witche 6. Turones. 2. ducates. For a priest that is a Sodomite, or hath lain with brute beasts 36. Turones. 9. ducates. For a nonne that hath been a common whore both within and without her Abby, with dispensation that she may be able to receive any dignity, in her order, yea to be Abbess, 36. Turones. 9. ducates. And so for all other offenses, with dispensations, inhibitions, rehabilities, licences, relaxations, commutations, confirmation, perinde Valeres Marcamas and the devil and all for money: wherefore except you be to impudent, to acknowledge this to be Christian discipline, be as good as your promise, and recant.

The sixth article containeth 3. demands.

FIrst you must understand, that we detest and abhor all your beggarly ceremonies, which you count holy and solemn observations: for we know, that God is not to be worshipped with such things but that the true worshippers must worship him in spirit & verity John 4. And seeing we know God, or rather are known of him, we will not regard the weak and beggarly elements, because they are destitute of God his word, which only i • able to give them strength and estimation? as for your festiuities, in the honor of creatures, we do likewise abhor them▪ we honor the Saints as S. Augustine saith for imitation, but we do not worship them for Religion. De vera Religion cap. 55. Where he also saith. Quare honoramus eos charitate, non seruitute. We honor them with love, and not with service. And as he doth often affirm, that it is Idolatry to build churches in the honor of Saints, so is it as great Idolatry, to institute festival days, in the favor of the same Saints. As for the festival days that were used in the primitive Church, although they might have been omitted, without any hurt of Christian Religion, yet were they not kept in the honor of creatures, as they are of the Papists, but only for the memory of the Martyrs, and other Saints, that their good life might be followed. Your fasts are also abhominable: for they are nothing else but abstinence from meats, created of God to be received with thanksgiving, which S. Paul affirmeth to be the doctrine of Devils 1. Tim. 4. Also your distinctions and varieties of service, because they consist most of blasphemous prayers to dead Saints, and sometimes to damned spirits, with foolish lessons, responses, versicles, &c. Lewde lies and uncertain tales, which you read and sing, as God his service, they are all abhominable. In vain do they worship me, saith our Savior Christ, teaching for doctrine the precepts of men. Math. 15. Also it was decreed in the Council of Laodicea, the 59. chapter, that nothing should be song or read in the Church, but the Canonical books of holy Scripture: wherefore if you demand whence your ceremonies, festival days, fasts, and varieties of service did proceed? I answer plainly, out of the bottomless pit of hell.

IF you had uttered what things you mean, that are so indifferently allowed on both sides, we might better have answered: but seeing you have not, we must conjecture what you mean: if you mean any thing that is allowed without controversy on both sides, it did either proceed from the scripture of God, or from the primitive Church or else it a thing merely indifferent, but if it have no ground in holy Scripture, nor example of the primitive Church, nor judged merely indifferent, it not indifferently observed for the most parte, nor yet allowed on both sides.

I Have answered before, that the Protestants Congregation, giveth you leave to brag, that you are the inuentors of all these Idolatrous superstitions, & false worshipping of God, and yet because you offer so liberally to recant, if it can be proved that any Church but yours, hath instituted and ordered all these things, you shall hear what can be said. First, your great doctor Durande, plainly affirmeth that many of your ceremonies, and solemnities, had not their first institution of your church, but were taken of the Jews or Gentiles: And it may easily be proved, that many of your ceremonies, were instituted of heretics, as your holy water which you say you use to put men in mind of their baptism, was derived of y ^e heretics called Hemerobaptistae, which were, baptized every day, Epiphan. lib. 1. Tom. 1. cap. 17. Of the Ossenes, you took the great estimation of water, salt, oil, bread, &c. and use to swear by them, as they did. Epiph. contra Ossenes 19. Of the same heretics, you received the superstition of relics, for they used to take the spittle, and other filth from the bodies of Marthys, and Marthana, which were of the seed of Elxai, that is, great Saints with them, and used them to cure diseases, as Erasmus witnesseth, at Canterbury were kept the clowtes, that Thomas Becket did occupy to wipe of his sweat, and to blow his nose on, which were kissed as holy relics, and thought also to be holsom for sick folks: of the same heretics you learned to command the people to pray, in an vnknowene tongue, as Elxai, the great Pope of those heretics said: Nemo quaerat interpretationem, sed solum in oratione haec dicat. Let no man seek the interpretation, but only say these words in his prayer. Which words were in a strange tongue, either the Hebrew, or the Arabike. Epiphan. lib. 1. Tom. 1. haeres. 19. Likewise the Marcosians when they baptized, used to speak certain Hebrew words, that the ignorant people might marvel the more at them, as you do in Baptism Ephata, &c. Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haer. 34. To make the Images of Christ, and of the Apostles, and to sense them, you learned of the heretics called Gnostici, and Carpocrati • ae, Epip. lib. 1. Tom. 2. in the preface Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 2. haer. 27. and Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 23. Of the Valentinians, you learned to have in price the sign of the cross, and to abuse the places of scripture for the same superstitious use: as, God forbid that I should rejoice but in the cross of Christ, &c. Irenaeus lib. 1. cap. 1. Epiphan. lib. 1. Tom. 2. haeres. 31. Of the Heracleonites, you learned to annoynte men at the point of death, with oil, and balm, and to cast water upon dead men, with inuocations. Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haeres. 36. Of the Cayanes, you learned to call upon Angels. Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. haeres. 38.

Of the Marcionistes, you learned to give women leave to baptize. Ep. lib. 1. Tom. Haer. 42. George, Bishop of Alexandria, invented bears to carry dead corpses, charging all men to use them for his own advantage, as do you Papists your bearing clothes & other toys for funeral pomps. Ep. lib. 3. Tom. 1. Haer. 76. Of the Colliridianes, you learned to make images of the virgins Marie, & worship them & her, with offering of candells, &c. as they did of cakes, &c. Ep. lib. 3. Haer. 79. Of the Messalians or Martirians, you learned to shave your beardes and to let your locks grow long. Ep. lib. 3. Haer. 80. Of the Pharizees, you received your superstitious masking garments, which you call amictus dalmaticus, and pallia, as witnesseth Epiphanius, in his epistle to Acacius, and Paulus. Last of all what say you to the ceremonies, festiuities, fasts, and solemnities, used in the Greek Church, and in the other Oriental Churches, if they be sufficient to make their church Cathol • ke, why do you count them heretics, and Schismatikes? if they be not sufficient, why do you reason of the insti • ution of the like, to prove your Church Catholic? You see that proved which you desired, play the honest man therefore, and recant.

The 7. article containeth 3. demands.

FVrther I answer you, that all true Saints, whether they were Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Evēgelistes, Martyrs, Confessors, Doctors, Scholars, Virgins, wives, widows, married, or unmarried, are all children of that Church, in whose fellowship we rejoice to be, and are our dear brethren and sistern begotten in Jesus Christ by the gospel, and we all hold of one head Jesus Christ, as members of his mystical body. We all believe to be received into that glory that they are, by the only mean that they were, that is by the mercy of God in Christ Jesus. But as for the continuance of the Callendar, we have little respect unto it, yea no regard at all, to use it either as a record, or as a register of those whom we acknowledge to be Saints in heaven. Let the Prince make you answer, for the continuance of such call̄ders, for we have not to do with them. Nevertheless because you speak of a Callendar, that is used everywhere, you declare that you have small experience in Callendars, for every country hath them diverse in most days, except holy days, and in some country Callendars, such days are festival to those Saints, that have not their names in Callendars of other cuntries, yea it may be doubted whether they have their names in the book of life. If you saw a Bohemians Callendar, perhaps if you should see John Hus, and Jerome of Prague, which your church condemned for heretics, and have as solemn feasts, in the Callender as Peter and Paul, wherefore we acknowledge those to be Saints in deed, not whose names are continued in the Callendars of men, but are written in the book of life of the Lamb, that was slain from the beginning of the world. Apoc. 13.

IT is sufficiently proved against you, of the Papistry, that all they, whom we acknowledge to be Saints in heaven, are members of the same mystical body of Christ, that we are, and hold the only foundation that we hold, which is Jesus Christ, and although some of them, built straw and stubble upon the same foundation, yet the Lord hath not imputed it unto them. But whereas the Patriarchs, Prophets, and Apostles were chief lights and pillars of the church of Christ, the day is yet to come, and ever shall be, that all you of the Papistry, shall be able to charge us with one pointe of our faith, contrary to the doctrine of the Patriarchs, Prophets, and Apostles.

Our Church doth take all them that show the fruicts of a lively faith, to be Saints, while they be alive, as well as after their death, and we say with David: All my delight is in the Saints, that are in the earth Psal. 16. and with S. Paul: We labor to comprehend with all Saints, what is the length, breadth, depth, and height, and to know the love of Christ. Ephes. 3. Finally the scripture teacheth us, to call all them that are sanctified in the blood of Christ, and called to the fellowship of the Gospel, holy and Saints of God. 1. Cor. 1. Ephes. 1. &c. Wherefore, your Popish church doth great injury to the Saints of God, first, because she doth not so accompt them while they live, and secondly, because she referreth the canonization of them only to y ^e Pope, who not for their holy life, maketh them Saints, but for the holy hunger of gold, as appear by Pope July 2. who would not canonize king Henry the sixth, at the request of king Henry the seventh, under an unreasonable sum of money. If that sum of money had been paid, he should have been a saint, though he had not deserved, not for his virtue. And because that sum of money was not paid, he might not be canonized, although his godliness never so much deserved. Again of what force your Canonization is to be esteemed, we may learn by a fact of Pope Boniface the 8. who condemned, digged up, and burned the body of Hermannus in Ferraria, 30. years after his burial, who had been worshipped for a saint above 20. years before, as witnesseth Platina and other. Gregory the seventh canonized Pope Liberius, which was an Arian, as S. Hieronym testifieth, Moreover if I should likewise demand of you, what Pope canonized Peter, Paul, and the rest of the Apostles, yea most of the Martyrs of the primitive Church, you shall never be able to show me either what Pope did it, or that any Pope did it: For seeing none may canonize but the Pope in your church, and you cannot prove that the Pope hath canonized the Apostles and chief Martyrs, you cannot prove that your church hath canonized the Apostles and principal Martyrs. But it is manifest that your canonization is taken from the heathen Senate of Rome, which challenged authority to make God's, whom they them selves thought best. And if I should rip up the most parte of those Saints, which have been canonically canonized by the Pope, it were an easy matter to find them heretics, traitors, Necromancers, Whoremongers, and whores, as you may read in Bales Votaries abundantly, believing his report no farther than he allegeth his Author, where you may find it. Wherefore it were wisdom for you, not to depend upon the Pope his Canonization, but upon God his approbation, and to recante.

The 8. article containeth 3. demands.

I Aunswere the Papist, that Christ hath given to his Church some Apostles, some Prophets, some Evangelists, some Pastors, and Teachers. Ephes. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. And we are able to show & prove, that we continue in that unity of faith and knowledge of the Son of God, for which ende such offices were ordained. But whereas you require, that we should show you the continuance of those functions by orderly succession from Christ's his time until our days, you declare how small skill you have in understanding the scriptures, for the offices of Apostles, Evangelists, and Prophets, were not appointed to continue always in the Church, but for a time, until the Gospel had taken root in the world. Moreover, whereas you require an orderly succession, according to persons, or places, you are never able to prove, that any such thing was promised to the Church, that we should show you the performance thereof in our Church. Otherwise we doubt not, but God hath always stirred up some faithful teachers, that have instructed his Church in the necessary points of Christian Religion. Although the world and the church of Antichrist did not always see them.

AGaine I answer you, that you are not able to name, me any text of scripture, by which you can prove, that all these offices must have perpetual continuance in y ^e church of Christ, nor yet that any of them should keep an ordinary succession of place or persons: But contrariwise, seeing it was prophesied that the church should fly into the wilderness, that is, be driven out of the sight and knowledge of the wicked, and be so narrowly persecuted of the Romish Antichrist for a longe season, it were a token our church were not the true church, if we could name such notable persons as you speak of, in all ages flourishing in their government and ministry. And it is a good argument, that the Popish church is not the church of Christ, because it was never hidden sense it first sprang up, in so much that you can name all the notable persons in all ages in their government, and ministry, and especially the succession of Popes, you can rehearse in order upon your fingers, in which beadroole, nevertheless you must name many tyrants, many traitors, one whore, many whoremongers, many Sodomites, many murderers, many poysenors, many sorcerers, and Necromancers, and from Boniface the third, all blasphemous heretics, and Antichrists. But our church, which hath not had so many registers, chroniclers, and remembrancers hath perhaps fewer, but yet honester men to name: we can name Peter, Paul, Matthew, John, &c. Mark, Luke, Timothy, Agabus, Epaphras, &c. Justinus, Irenaeus, Cyprianus, Athanasius, Hylarius, Ambrosius, Augustinus, &c. Gyldas, Bertramus, Marsilius de Padua. John. de Ganduno, Bruno Andagauensis Wickleue, John Hus, Jerome of Prague, &c. With the first, namely Apostles, Evangelists, and Prophets, we consent wholly in all pointes of doctrine, with the rest, in the chief and most substantial articles of faith, always agreeing with any man, so far as he agreeth with the word of God.

FOr some of those officers I have twice answered before, that they were not ordained, to continue always, with the church, wherefore they are not to be exacted of us, but such officers as are necessary for the conservation of God his people in the unity of faith and the knowledge of Christ, our Church hath never lacked, although in time of the great defection and Apostasy whereof S. Paul doth prophesy 2. Thess. 2. there were but few, as there were but few members of Christ his Church notwithstanding that through injury of the time, the remembrance of all their names is not come unto us. And although we could rehearse in order as many successions in our Church as the papists boast of in theirs, yet were that nothing to prove it to be the Church of Christ, which must be tried only by the Scriptures, as S. Augustine saith in his book de vnitate Ecclesiae, against the Donatists cap. 16. Sed vtrum ipsi Ecclesiam teneant, non nisi diuinarum Scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant, quia nec nos propterea dicimus nobis credere oportere quod Ecclesia sumus, quia ipsam quam tenemus commendauit Mileuitanus Optatus, vel Mediolanensis Ambrosius, vel alij innumerabiles nostrae communionis Episcopy, &c. But whether they hold the Church or no, let them show none otherwise, but by the canonical books of holy Scripture, for we our selves do not therefore say that men must believe us that we are in the Church because we hold the same Church, which Optatus of Mileuitum hath commended, or Ambrose of Millayn, or innumerable Bishops of our communion. Even so we require at the Papists hands that show them selves to hold the Church not by succession of Bishops, or rehearsing of their names, but only by the Scriptures: for although we did rehearse innumerable names of Bishops in orderly succession on our side we would not require men to believe us, but only because we prove the doctrine of our Church by the authority of the Scriptures. But as for the popish church, neither hath nor ever had any of those officers which S. Paul speaketh of, for Apostles, Evangelists, and Prophets, she can challenge by no reason, seeing she refuseth to be tried by their doctrine uttered in their writings, in steed of pastors & teachers she hath wolves, dūme dogs, or false prophets, which either teach not at all, or else teach the doctrine of devils & the dreams of men. And further I would desire none other place in all the Scripture, to overthrow the popish Hierarchy (which is the greatest glory of their Church) then this place of Paul, Ephes. 4. he speaketh of Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets, Pastors and teachers. But where are Popes, Cardinals, popish archbishops, Bishops, Priests, Decons, Subdeacons, Exorcistes, Cantors, Acolyts, Ostiares, Monks, Friars, Chanōs, Nuns, &c. Wherefore I conclude that all these popish orders are no offices in the Church of Christ. And especially, seeing the Apostle both in this place Eph. 4. and 1. Cor. 12. by these offices proveth the unity of mind, he acknowledgeth no Pope as one supreme head in earth, which might be very profitable (as the Papists say) to maintain this unity: for if there had been any such office appointed of God, S. Paul in no wise would have omitted it, especially when it made so notably for the confirmation of his purpose, which was unity. To conclude if it be sufficient, or anything worth, to rehearse the names of them that have orderly succeeded in all ages in the bishops sees, in an outward face of the Church, the Greek Church is able to name as many as the Latin Church, and in as orderly succession. Wherefore if you be as ready to perform as to promise, you recant.

The nynth article may be divided into nine demands.

THey ministered those Sacraments which Christ did institute, namely the Sacrament of baptism, and the Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ, at such times as the cruel tyranny of you Papists did not hinder them, to come together for such purposes.

THey did use such discipline as was used in S. Cyprians time, when persecution hindered not the free course of it. As he doth often complain in the places above rehearsed. They did admonish secretly, before witnesses, and when persecution stayed them not, they did also excommunicate.

TO such as would give them hearing, as Wickleue to the Englishmen: John Hus to the Bohemians: Waldo to the Frenchmen, and so of the rest.

THey reproved heresies, by the word of God, and patient sufferinge of your tyranny: the one you may read in their works, that are yet extant of Wickleue, Bertrame, Hus, &c. The other in histories of your own writers.

I Might ask you where the Apostles did sit in judgment and you are never able to show me, for I read as one saith: that they stood often to be Iudged, but I never read that they sat in judgment upon others: And so I answer of the principal Pastors of our Church, especially in time of persecution.

AS God gave them respight, from your tyranny, they had conference one with another: and as for doubts, they tried them by the word of God, and not by number of voices, as you do in your councils, as for the places where they met, is nothing at all material, at Prague, at Lions, at Merindol, &c.

YOu are void of all reason that in a persecuted church, will require all things to be so formal and orderly, as in time of peace and quietness, I could choke you with putting like cases of your Church. If a number of Papists be carried prisoners into Barbarie, or Turkey, what Sacraments, what discipline, what Judgment have they among them, if one be offended with his brother how shall he come to your office • s, or to your Church to complain. In such cases where the ordinary authority of the Church is hindered by persecution, or otherwise, the rule of S. Paul. 1. Cor. 5. may serve and ought to be observed: If any that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an Idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extorcioner with such one eat not. So that if a Christian be justly offended with his brother, he ought to abstain from his company. And if he may have ordinary authority, he may complain further.

HE must have sought them out as well as he could, & if he had been persuaded, that they only ministered the Sacraments, & Ecclesiastical rites, sincerely, according to the word of God, it were no great matter for him to find them, seeing he knew by whom he was so persuaded, and of them might also be informed where he should have them. I marvel you are not ashamed to demand these questions, as though it were material to discuss, whether of us hath the Church, to have the Church so manifest, that every man may see it. Do you not remember how many schisms have been even in the popish church, more thē twenty, and sometime two Popes at once, sometime three, & sometime four, which of them should a simple Papist take for head of the Church, especially in the 22. schism, which lasted 39. years: one Pope sitting at Rome, another at Avigno, either having his court, either having and making Cardinals, either cursing other. Or in the 23. schism, when the question was of one of the highest pointes in all popery, and is not yet thoroughly decided among them: Whether the Pope be above the Council, or the Council above the Pope. In the time of these schisms how might a man have found out, which was the true Church, which was Christ's vicar in earth, which had the right Sacraments and Sacramentalls, to which Popes court should he appeal, where did the principal Pastors sit in judgment, &c. How should councils be gathered, which Pope should confirm their acts, &c, When you are able to answer these questions, for your own church; then you may better require them of ours. As for that secrete, contemptible, and unknown company of our Church, in the sight of the world, was nevertheless manifest, glorious, and known to our Savior Christ, and the lively members of his body.

ALthough it be to little purpose to answer this demand, because it is no reason to say, these things hath not been, because chronicles make no mention of them: yet that all men may see, how far you ouershoot yourself, I will partly satisfy your request. Charles the great sought knowledge of the truth of the sacrament of Bertramus. John, Duke of Lancaster, and diverse other noble men were instructed in our Religion by Wickleue. The land of Bohemia, was converted by John Hus, and Hieronym of Prague, and sought the sacraments of them. Finally, you always forget the Greek church, which you do not accompt parte of the Catholic church, and yet you cannot deny but men have sought Justice, sacraments, faith, &c. of it. Therefore if a man might trust you upon your word, you recant.

The 10. article containeth in effect but 2. demands.

BEfore y ^e general defection, it is an easy matter, to name you the Emperors and Princes which both offered, to be ministers of Justice in the right of our church, and also maintained our faith and Congregation, by Civil laws, as Constantine the great, Iouinianus, Valentinianus, Theodosius, Archadius, Honorius, Marcianus, Iustinianus, Mauricius, and diverse other. But when the kings of the earth had committed fornication with the great whore of Babylon (as the holy Ghost foreshoweth Apoc. 17. and 18.) it is no prejudice to our cause if we cannot show, any of them that have maintained our Religion. Yet because you make so gentle an offer upon the trial of such a matter, which is of small force either to the hurt of our cause or the maintenance of yours, I will let you understand what I have read for this purpose. Not doubting but other which have read much more, and seen more ancient histories than I, can show you a great deal more. I pass over as to well known, how many of the Grecian Emperors resisted the setting up of Images, in so much that in the Greek church to this day they can abide none in their temples, likewise I pass over Charles the great, who wrote a book against Images, which is in printe, who also declared, that he liked not the heresy of the real presence and transubstantiation, which in his time was in forging, in that he called Bertrame, to declare his mind of that matter, as appeareth by his book, which is also in printe. I will not rehearse those princes, that contrary to the Popes laws, defended their priests, that were married: For although these and such like defended some parte of the truth, which we hold against you, yet lest you should object, it was but in someone or two pointes, I pass them over with silence. But Wickleue, I wene, you will not deny, but he was of our Church and Religion. And I read that king Edward the third, both in his Parliament holden Anno Domini, 1371. and at other times with diverse other noble men defended his cause: in so much that so long as he lived, all the popish bishops, could do him no harm, yet did he openly inveigh against the Pope, calling him Antichrist, and all popish doctrine without any couller or dissimulatiō both in the university of Oxeford, where he was reader, and also in his sermons abroad, as appeareth by his books and English homilies, which yet are common to be seen, w ^t unless he had been supported, and maintained by the king and other potentates, could never have continued so long as he did. Further, have you not heard of Zizka, and Procopius, two mighty Capitaines, which defended the Bohemians from the tyranny both of the Emperor, the Pope, and almost all the Princes of Germany? For what cause did Paul the second Anno Domini, 1466. condemn George, a noble and a worthy Prince, king of Bohemia for an heretic? and deprived him of his kingdom? was it not for defending the Protestants in his dominion? Thus you see that some Princes and Potentates have not only offered but have in deed, taken in hand to defend our church, which you thought unable to be shown, wherefor I challenge your promise, you must recante.

The 11. article is so confuse that it is hard to bring it into any certain number of demands.

I Answer, even in the Apostles time, there arose many heresies which did not a little trouble the Church, but immediately after the Apostles time, while the fathers of the church were earnestly occupied, in resisting of horrible heresies, by the craft of Satan, some errors and abuses crept into the true Church of Christ, which at the first because they were small, and men occupied in greater matters, were either not espied, or not regarded: as may be known by the writings of Justinus Martyr, and Irenaeus, two of the most ancient writers, sense the Apostles time. Justinus, was in this error, that he thought that the Angels lusted after women and therefore were turned into Devils. It seemeth also, that the Church in his time, was in some error, about second marriages and diuorcements. Irenaeus, affirmeth, that our Savior Christ lived here 50. years, which he saith was received of them that heard it, even of the Apostles mouths. Also both he and Papias, which was before him and was the disciple of S. John : are charged by S. Ieronym, in Catalogo Script. Eccl. to have held this error, that Christ should reign a thousand years after the Resurrection here in the flesh, whereby it is manifest, seeing these ancient fathers, and pillars of the Church were thus stained with errors, that the Church in their time, could not be free from the same. And so it is evident, that the true Church decayed immediately after the Apostles times.

ALthough many abuses and corruptions were entered into the church of Christ immediately after the Apostles time, which the devil planted as a preparative for his eldest son Antichrist. Yet we may well say, that the religion of the Papist • s came in, and prevailed, that year in which the Pope first obtained his Antichristian exaltation, which was in the year of our Lord 607. when Boniface the third, for a great sum of money, obtained of Phocas, the traiterous murderer, and adulterous Emperor, that the Bishop of Rome should be called and counted, the head of all the Church. Since that time, that devilish heresy hath always increased in error, until the year of our Lord 1414. in which the Council of Constance decreed, to rob the people of the Sacrament of Christ his blood. From this time it hath again decayed, being mightily subdued by the bright beams of the Gospel, shining in the world, and at the length shall be utterly destroyed.

WHen the coming of Antichrist was in all power of lying signs, and wonders, in so much (that if it were possible) the very elect should be deceived, and a general departing from the faith was foreshowed, and the Church to be driven into the wilderness, what marvel were it? if none of our Church could preach against it, as it first entered: yet because you speak of the first entering of popish religion, which dependeth chiefly upon the Popes authority, you shall hear, that when it first began to advance it self, there wanted not some, either to preach or write against it. When Victor, bishop of Rome about the year of our Lord 200. passed the bonds of his authority, in excommunicating of all the Churches of Asia, many bishops withstood him, and especially Irenaeus, bishop of Lions, and Policrates of Ephesus, as witnesseth Eusebius, libro 5. cap. 25. Eccle. S. Cyprian, also reproveth Cornelius, bishop of Rome, for that he was moved by threatening of heretics to receive their letters, & did not send them back into Africa, to their own bishop lib. 1. Ep. 3. Also when Stephanus, bishop of Rome, was bold to communicate with Basilides, and Martialis, two Spaniards, that were justly excommunicated and deposed by y ^e bishops of their own province, & sought to restore them: Cyprian and his fellow bishops of Africa, being required to give their advise, gave counsel, that in no wise they should be received, not a little blaming Stephanus, that being far of, and ignorant of their cause; he would take upon him, to defend such wicked men. lib. 1. Ep. 4. Likewise when the same Stephanus, threatened excommunication to Helenus and Firmilianus, and almost all the Churches of Asia, because they thought that such as were baptized by heretics, should be baptized again: he was misliked by Dionysius of Alexandria, and diverse other godly bishops, as appeareth by his Epistle written to Xystus. Euseb. lib. 7. cap. 5. Cyprian also reproveth him very sharply, for the same opinion, accusing him of presumption and contumacy Epi. ad Pompeium, and in his epistle to Quintinus, he saith plainly, that Peter himself was not so arrogant, nor so presumptuous that he would say he held the primacy, & that other men should obey him as his inferiors. When Anastasius, Innocentius, Zozimus, Caelestinus, bishops of Rome all on a row, challenged prerogative over the bishops in Africa, by forginge a false Canon of the Nicene Council, they were withstood by all the bishops of Africa, who decreed, that none under pain of excommunicatiō, should appeal to any bishop, beyond the sea. Council. Aphrican. cap. 92. and that the bishop of the chief see, should not be called prince of priests, or highest priest, but only bishop of the chief see. Conc. Aph. cap. 6. When Celestinus bishop of Rome dealt hardly with the Novatians, Socrates testifieth, he could do not good with them, because they envied his ambition, saying that the bishopric of Rome, like as of Alexandria, was long before grown beyond the bonds of priesthood, into foreine lordship. Lib. 7. cap. 11. By these examples it is plain, that although the mystery of iniquity, began to work in Victor, Cornelius, Stephanus, Anastasius, Innocentius, Zozimus, Boniface, and Caelestinus, yet it was reproved, by some godly men: as Irenaeus, Polycrates, Dionysius Alexandrinus, Cyprianus, the Council of Africa, and Socrates the Historiographer.

WHen the scripture telleth us, that the mystery of iniquity, preparing for the general defection, and revelation of Antichrist, wrought even in S. Paul's time 2. Thess. 2. it is folly to ask, whether suddenly and in one yere all Religion was corrupted. And yet all nations never consented to the doctrine of the Papists, for as it hath been often said, the Greek church, and other Oriental churches, hath never received the Popish religion, in many chief pointes, and especially, in acknowledging the Popes authority: what preaching, teaching, and writing hath been against it, is shown before, and shall be more declared hereafter.

NO forsoothe, but by little and little, in the Latin Church: as for the Greek & Oriental Churches, never received nor used your Latin service books.

WHen Durande, your own doctor, showeth what Pope sewed on every patche, that belongeth to your Mass, it were folly for us to say: it came in suddenly, and impudency in you, to affirm that it came whole from the Apostles, which was so long a framing in so many pieces.

FIrst it is manifest, that men had no warrant out of God his word to pray for the dead: and it cannot be proved for 200, years after Christ, by any credible author, that it was used in the Church: wherefore it is certain, that it was first planted by the devil, as were other abuses: And because it hath a pretence of Charity, deceived simple men the sooner. Yet did it not so prevail, in the primitive Church, that they durst define, what profit the souls received thereby: for Chrysostom in his 3. Homelie, upon the first Chapter of the Epist. to the Philippians, saith: Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij, modici quidem, attamen iuuemus eos. Let us procure them some help, small help truly, but yet let us help them. Likewise, Augustine in the 9. book and 13. Chapter of his confessions, where he prayeth for his father and mother, declareth how uncertain he was of that matter, one while he feareth the danger of every soul that dieth in Adam : An other while he believeth, that they need not his prayer, yet he desireth God to accept the same, and move other men to remember them in their prayers: Thus it is necessary that they wander, which lean unto men's traditions without the word of God.

WHether suddenly or by little and little, men were brought to such superstition, that they required help of Saints, it maketh little matter, seeing it is contrary to the word of God, and the example of the primitive Church, for 200. years after Christ. Yet it is to be thought, that it grew up, as other errors, by little and little. And S. Augustine in his book, De cura pro mortuis agenda, wearieth him self, and in the ende can define nothing, in certain, how y ^e Saints in heaven should hear the prayers of men, on earth. Such doubtfulness they fall into, that leave the word of God, and leave to traditions.

FIrst y ^e Greek church, & other churches both in Asia, & Ethiopia, never received the Latin tongue: but to this day continue in their vulgare tongue. The Western Church, for the most parte all spake and understood Latin, as the sea coast of Africa, Italy, France, Spain, Britain: as for Germany, was lately converted to the faith. Then seeing they spake Latin, and had their common prayer in Latin: The tongue of their common prayer was not altered, but their speech was altered from the tongue of their common prayer: and this was not suddenly, for it was more than twelve hundred years after Christ before it wa • taken for a Catholic doctrine, that common prayer should be used in latin. S. Augustine preached in latin & all the people understood him, and that they might the better understand him, he doth use such phrases and terms which were not pure latin, but commonly used of the people as Ossum, and Foenerare, &c. But soon after his time, when the Goths, and Vandalles, oueranne the Empire, the latin tongue which before was not pure among the people, began daily to be more corrupted, and yet remained after a sort latin, until the year of our Lord 768. when Charles the great began to r • igne in France, and long after: for within the time of his reign, which was 47. years, a Council was holden at Turon, in France, what year it is not certain, but it is probable, that in the latter ende of his empire, in which it was decreed, that every bishop, should have certain homilies. Et easdem quisque aperte studeat transfer in rusticam Romanam linguam aut Theotiscam; quo facilius cuncti possint intelligere quae dicuntur. Turon. 3. cap. 17. And that everyone study to translate them plainly, into the rusticall Roman tongue or into the Theotisce tongue, that all men may more easily understand what is said. By this Canon, it is evident, that at this time, the people understood the Latin tongue, though it were very rude and rustical. And where the Canon prescribeth the same homilies to be translated either into the rude latin tongue, or into the Theotisce tongue. Although this word Theotisca, seem to be corrupted, yet it is most certain that they meant Dutch tongue, for as much as Carolus magnus, had a great part of Germany under his dominion, and the Germans, as never thoroughly subdued by the Romans, never thoroughly received the latin tongue. Yet it is manifest, that they understood their common prayer in the latin tongue, though not perfectly, because the Canon saith: Quo facilius &c. That all men may more easily understand, signifying that they understood the pure latin tongue though hardly and not perfectly. About the year of our Lord 813. the knowledge of the latin tongue, began more and more to wear away, from amongst the common people, which when the bishops perceived, they decreed in the Council of Magunce, cap. 25. that every Sondaye, and holy day, there should be a sermon in such sort, that the common people might understand it: and in the 45. Canon. they decreed, that every Christian, should learn the Creed, and the Lord his prayer, Et qui aliter non potuerit, vel in sua lingua hoc discat, that is, And he that cannot, yet let him learn it in his own tongue. Whereby they declare, that they desier to retain the latin tongue still, but rather than the people should be ignorant, they command them to learn their prayers and belief in their mother tongue. Also by the 43. Canon, wherein they judge that no preeste can say Mass alone, it appeareth that the people commonly understood the latin service: for they ask how he should say: Dominus vobiscum, and admonish the people to lift up their hearts, and diverse like sayings, where there is none by him but him self. Now if the people understood not these sayings, it were all one, whether they were present or absent. Also in the Council of Rhenes, holden in France about the same time, the like decree was made cap. 15. that bishops study to preach sermons, and homelies of the holy fathers so that all men may understand, according to the property of their tongue. Finally in the Council of Lateran holden under Pope Innocent the third, Anno Dom. 1215. in which Council transubstantiation was first established, the 9. chapter, it was plainly decreed that forasmuch as within one city and diocese people of diverse languages be mingled together, having under one Faith, diverse rites, and manners, we straitly command, that the bishops of such cities and diocesses, provide able men, which according to the diversity of their rites, and languages, celebrate unto them, the divine service, and minister the sacraments, instructing them both by word and example. Hereby it appeareth, that when the latin tongue, was either almost, or altogether grown out of the common people's understandings, order was taken that common prayers should be said and sacraments ministered in the mother tongue of every nation. But the bishops which should have seen it put in execution, either negligently omitted it, or willingly refused to do it, because it was more for their profit to keep the people in blind ignorance. So thus I have shown, that suddenly the tongue of common prayer, was not altered.

WHo can tell the original of every blind custom and peuish tradition, of every old error and foolish fashion it is sufficient to show, that these things have no ground in the scripture of God, they were not taught by Christ and his Apostles, nor received in the church that followed immediately after them, and then we are bold to say, with Tertullian: This prejudice there is against all heresies, how soever they came up or whensoever they sprange up, That is true that was first, and that is false, that is latter, therefore from the beginning it was not used to pray for the dead nor to the dead, from the beginning common prayer was not in an unknown tongue. Wherefore prayer for the dead and to the dead, with prayer in a strange tongue are false, whensoever they began, or how long soever they continued.

BEfore you demand what year the religion of the Papists came, in and whether it came in suddenly: and as though we should answer that it came in suddenly, you demand, who preached against it &c. This is to fight with your own shadow: for we say not that it came in suddenly, but that it entered by small degrees at the first and therefore was less espied by the true Pastors, especially being earnestly occupied against great heresies, and open adversaries, that sought to beat down the chief foundations of Christian faith, as the Valentinians, Marcionistes, Manichees, Arians, Sabellians, and such like monsters. So when Satan had gotten in one foot, by such crafty pollitie, he never rested, until he had thrust in his whole body, with the power of Antichrist.

SO often as you demand one thing, so often must I answer after one sort, this mutation was not all in one year, nor in one hundredth years, nor in one thousand of years, for transubstantiation no small article of your religion, was not decreed until the year of God 1215. what preachers have withstood your doctrine at diverse times are declared before in the answer to the 8. Article 2. demand.

I Have noted in the answer to the 6. article 3. demand, the names of diverse heretics, that first preached diverse articles of your religion, and further I note unto you Pelagius, and Coelestius, which tought that free will without grace could do somewhat towards eternal salvation, and that grace was given according to merit, which article you teach also with culler of a distinction De congruo & condigno, which is a mere cavil: for God is as much bound unto congruity, as to dignity or worthiness, and as he can do nothing against worthiness, no more can he do anything against congruity, which is a kind of Equity. And whereas you brag, to note unto us everyone of our Capitaines &c. except you note unto us the Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, Evangelists, and Christ himself, you shall never be able to perform that you promise, for we teache nothing but the eternal truth of God, wherefore we refuse not to be counted heretics, if you can prove, that we hold any one article of faith, contrary to the scripture: you may perchance note the names of them, that preaching the truth of our doctrine, against your received errors, were accounted of the world for heretics, but you must prove that their opinions are contrary to the word of God, or else all your labor is in vain: we confess also, that some articles of our doctrine, were taught by heretics, as there was never no heresy, which had not many things common with true Religion, but yet in those points they were no heretics, neither did they err. Yea but you will say, they were condemned for those opinions, as erroneous. I will not dissemble, that which you think the greatest matter. Arius tought, that prayer for the dead was unprofitable, as witnesseth both Epiphanius, and Augustinus, which they compte for an error, but neither of them both, reproveth it by the scripture. Wherefore, if Arius had not been an Arian, this opinion could not have made him an heretic. Also he tought that fasting days are not to be observed, if he espied the superstition of fasting days and reproved it, that was no error at all. But if Arius was an heretic, for denying prayer for the dead to be profitable, why were the Heracleonites, accused of heresy, because they buried their dead with inuocations Epiph. lib. 1. Tom. 3. Haeres. 36. Augustine, also by authority of Philaster chargeth the same Arius, with abstinence from flesh, if this be an heresy, then be all Papists heretics, which compte abstinence from flesh an holy fast. Again you will bring in Iouiniane, which affirmed that virginity was no better than marriage, which if it be well understood, is no error at all: for although virginity in some cases and respects, and for some persons is better than marriage: yet is it not simply, that is in all respects and cases, and for all persons better than matrimony. And if he tought further that such as could not contain, though they had vowed Virginitie, should nevertheless be married, this was the doctrine of S. Paul : It is better to marry than to burn. And Epiphanius was of the same judgment, although he compte it an offense to marry after their vow, yet he saith: It is better to marry then to burn. Melius est itaque vnum peccatum habere, & non plura, &c. It is better to have one offense, rather then many. It is better for him that is fallen from his course, openly to take a wife according to the law, and to repent longe time that vow of his virginity, and so again be brought into the Church, as one that hath done amiss, as one that is fallen and broken, and having need to be bound: rather then to be wounded daily, with privy darts of that wickedness, which y ^e devil putteth into him. So knoweth the Church to preach, these are the medicines of healing. Ep. lib. 2. Haer. 61. this medicine the popish church will not acknowledge, but will separate them from their wives, as they did in Queen Mary's times. S. Ieronym also, who was a most bitter enemy unto Jovinian, plainly affirmeth, that rather then they which have professed virginity, should live incontinently, they ought to marry. Sanctum Virginum propositum & coelestis angelorúmque familiae gloriam, quarundam non been se agentium nomen infamat. Quibus aperte dicendum est, vt aut nubant, si se non possunt continere, aut contineant, si nolunt nubere. Epi. ad Demetriadem. That is: The name of certain virgins, which behave them selves not well, doth blemish the holy purpose of virginity, and glory of the heavenly and angelike family. To whom must be plainly said that either they should marry, if they cannot contain, or else contain if they will not marry. Note well this saying of S. Ieronym, the great aduancer of virginity, and dispraiser of marriage. Moreover if Jovinian taught that fasting, abstinence from certain meats, and other bodily exercise of them selves profit little, his doctrine agreeth with S. Paul. 1. Tim. 4. but if he taught (as he is charged) that such things profited nothing at all, we agree not with him in that opinion. Last of all Vigilantius, shall be brought in, who wrote against invocation of Saints, superstition of relics, and other ceremonies, him Ieronym reproveth or rather rayleth on him: for his reasons are nothing worth that he hath against him, therefore howsoever Ieronym esteemed him in his rage, if he had none other opinions contrary to the truth: we doubt not to acknowledge Vigilantius (as many godly and learned Bishops of his time did) for a true preacher and reprehender of that superstition whereunto Ieronym was to much addict, although he do somewhat qualify the matter. If any man think his reasons to be effectual, let him ma • ke this one, that he useth, and thereby judge the rest, he saith of the Martyrs: Sequuntur agnum, &c. They follow the lamb whether soever he goeth. If the lamb be everywhere, therefore they which are with the lamb, are to be thought to be everywhere. Beside this evil consequence, consider what perilous assertions these be: that the lamb is everywhere, & that y ^e martyrs are everywhere, this is to destroy the humanity of Christ, and to give divinity unto the Martyrs: for Christ concerning his humanity, according to which, he is called a Lamb, is not everywhere, but in one place alone, as S. Augustine saith Ep. ad Dardanum 57. Secundum hanc formam non est putandus vbi{que} diffusus, that is: According to this form it is not to be thought, that he is diffused everywhere. Again no creature is everywhere, in more places than one, at one time. Wherefore to say that the souls of Martyrs, be everywhere, is to deny them to be creatures and so make them gods. I doubt not but S. Ieronym if he had quietly considered these absurdities, would have revoked them as erroneous and heretical: but while he rather followed affection, then judgment, you may see how he was deceived. Thus seeing we have noted to you the names of diverse heretics, which first preached certain articles of your doctrine, and you are not able to name any, which preached any article of our doctrine, but the same was consonant to the Scripture. If you were as ready to perform, as you are to promise, you should recant.

I Have named before Victor, which was the first that went about to usurp authority over other Churches. Also I have named Boniface, the third, which was the first that challenged to be universal bishop: For Gregory the great saith: Nemo meorum decessorum hoc prophano vocabulo vti voluit, That is: None of my predecessors would use this profane word. The same Gregory, as Hulderichus, bishop of Auspourge doth testify, was y ^e first that compelled priests to live unmarried, which afterward when he saw the inconvenience, he revoked. Thus having named diverse Popes that first brake the course of their fathers faith, and regiment &c. and more could rehearse but for avoiding prolixity, I challenge your promise that you must recant.

The 12. article hath 3. demands.

IVstinus Martyr, in his second Apollogie to the Emperor, declareth plainly what order of service and ministration of sacraments our Church had before Papistry prevailed. On the day called Sunday (saith he) there is a meeting together of all them that dwell in the City or in the country, and the monuments of the Apostles, or the writings of the Prophets are read until it be thought sufficient, when the reader hath made an ende, he that is our overseer (or chief minister) maketh a sermon of admonition and exhortation to follow those good things that are read. After this we all stand up together and make our prayers, and as we have said before, when our prayers are ended, there is brought forth bread and wine & water, and the chief minister, doth likewise with all his might yield prayers and thanksgiving, and the people answereth Amen. Then is made distribution to everyone and receiving of those things for which thanks was given, and to them that be absent, it is sent by the deacons. Such as are riche and willing do give alms what they will, &c. By this one authority, it may be seen though other might be brought, what order of service and ministration of sacraments our Church used before Papistry gat the upper hand.

IT may trouble a wise man to answer all the questions that a fool can propound: you require to see a book of Communion in English, or that lacked &c. When it is confessed, that the English nation received their religion first from Rome, at such time as Religion there was very corrupt, what marueill is it, if we cannot show you such a Communion book as you require, but we can easily show you out of the scripture, the the Communion ought to be ministered in the vulgare tongue, that prayer for the dead and to the dead ought not to be used, that the sacrament ought not to be turned into a sacrifice, that there ought to be a communiō of many receauers and not a private mass, that the substance of the bread is not changed, that the elements of the sacrament are not to be honored: these I say we can prove out of the word of God, the Catholic writers of the old Church. And though perchance, it will be hard to find a communion book in English, yet have I found you a canon of the Lateran Council, that it ought to have been translated into English, yet are there found diverse monuments of Antiquity, as Prayers, Psalms, and Homilies, &c. in the old English or Saxons tongue, in which the real presence, transubstantiation, and other points of Popish doctrine are plainly confuted. There may be shown you also Bybles both the old Testament and New in the English tongue of diverse translations, in old written hand. Also great books of English homilies inueighing directly against the Pope and all Popish doctrine in old English written hand, with diverse other small treatises and pamphlets of like matters, if these would do you any good, you might have the sight of them, when you please.

THe Church of the Brytannes before Augustine came in, with Romish service, had they not trow you Authentical service? which continued in the faith of Christ even from the Apostles time. The Grecians also & Oriental churches, have they not unto this day, their Authentical service? which is not yours? If you cannot deny this, you should recant.

The 13. article hath 2. demands.

ALthough all godly men wish more severity of discipline to be used, in receiving them that come out of heresies to serve in the Church, than is commonly practiced in England: yet you are highly deceived, if you think we esteem your offices of Bishops, priests, deacōs, any better than the state of lay men, but far worse: for we judge them to be nothing else but Antichristianitie, heresy, and blasphemy. And therefore we receive none of them to minister in our church, except they forswear your religion: And so their admission is not an allowing of your ordering, but a new calling unto the ministry.

YOu presume to much as I said before to think that we receive your orderinge to be lawful or your ministering of sacraments to be pure. And if you gather, that we admit your ministration of sacraments because we do not rebaptize them that were baptized by you, we may likewise gather that you admit our ministration of sacraments, because you do not rebaptize them that are baptized of us, nor marry again those that are married in our Church: whereas you compt marriage to be a sacrament, so that our accepting of your doings doth no more allow your church, than your accepting of our doings, doth allow our Church. And as touching the sacrament of Baptism, because you retain the Institution, in baptizing in the name of the Father, the Son, and the holy Ghost: and in as much as the sacraments take not their effect of the minister, but of God, we receive it: as of other heretics which likewise retain the Institution. Wherefore there is no cause why you should think we allow yours to be the true Church thereby: So that there is good cause why you should recant.

The 14. article hath 5. demands.

THe service of God hath small need of furniture in outward things: for God being a spirit, is not worshipped with outward pomp but with spiritual and inward reverence. And as for other furniture that is necessary, was decreed to the Church by the Emperor Constantine and his successors, that were of our Church, before the reuelatiō of Antichrist. Notwithstāding the Church was in better case, before such furniture was granted, than it was since. Therefore it is a small reason to challenge the Church of Christ by outward furniture.

Our assemblies were kept in secret places, long time after Christ's Ascension, in most cuntries, that were subject to the Roman empire. Wherefore the building of material churches proveth nothing at all the builders to be members of the mystical Church, that is the body of Christ. Howbeit in such realms and cuntries where the faith of Christ, was received by public authority, as in this lande of Brytaine, there were churches built as our Chronicles declare. And when Constantine had given peace to the Church: he also built Oratories and great Synagoges called Basilicas, for our assemblies and service.

AS the church continued longe without material churches, so also without large possessions, for the living of bishops, yet in Brytish Church our histories make mention that the possessions and places of the Pagan Flamines, and Archiflamines were converted to the use of Ecclesiastical bishops and archbishops, so soon as Lucius, the king received the faith. Also the same histories do testify, that when Augustine came into Britayn, there were still 7. bishops and one archbishop among the Britain's. And in the Roman Empier Constantine, and other Christian Emperors appointed great possessions for the maintaining of the ministers of the Church.

THe Church of God hath always had schools, or Universities for the mainteinance of godly learning. For the first Colleges of monks in solitary places, were nothing else, but Colleges of students, that were after, as occasion served, taken to serve in the Church, as appeareth by Chrysostom in his book De Sacerdotio, where he showeth y ^t Basilius, who was a Monk with him, was taken by violence and made a minister of the church, as he him self was afterward. Also in the bishops house was a college of students: and our histories testify, that at Bangor, in Wales was a great University of learned men. Also of late days, you may hear that diverse Universities, Schools, and Colleges are erected by Protestants, in Germany, and other contries that have received the gospel: As at Wittemberge, Geneva, Zuriche, Conigsperge in Prussia, &c.

HEre are many words to little purpose. What if it were granted that all churches that now remain were built by Papists, and for popish uses, what had you won thereby. The same challenge might the Idolaters have made to the Apostles: Shew us a temple in all the world that was not built by Idolaters, and to maintain Idolatry? Certeinly they could show none when the Temple of Jerusalem was destroyed. But for all your brags, we are able to show that such Churches as were built by true Christians were not built to such ende as yours are: for they were all built in the honor of God, and the most of yours in the honor of creatures: for whereas you have one Church in the honor of Christ, you have near a thousand in the honor of Saints: For Basilius magnus in his 141. epistle proveth y ^e holy Ghost to be God because he hath a Temple. For Omne Templum Dei Templum est. Every temple is the temple of God. Also Didymus, in his book De spiritu sancto, which S. Ieronym translateth, useth the same reason and to the same purpose. S. Augustine in the same matter is very plentiful: as in his book De vera Religion cap. 55. speaking of the Saints he saith: Quare honoramus eos charitate non seruitute, nec eis templa construimus, &c. Wherefore we honor them with love and not with service, neither do we build temples unto them: for they will not be so honored of us because they know that we our selves when we are good, are the temples of the highest. In this saying beside his judgment for building of temples, note that he will not have Saints to be honored with service, which he calleth seruitus, and is the same that dulia is, contrary to the Papists which will worship them with service called dulia, or seruitus. Also in his 174. epistle to Pascentius, he saith, the holy Ghost could not have our bodies to be temples except he were God, And in his Enchiridion ad Laurentium, cap. 56. he saith: howe should he not be God which hath a temple? Also in the 8. book cap. 27. De ciuitate Dei. Nec tamen nos ijsdem martyribus templa, &c. he saith: Christians build no temples unto Martyrs which were to make them gods. And in the 22, book cap. 10. De ciuitate Dei. Nos autem Martyribus nostris non templa sicut dijs, sed memorias sicut hominibus mortuis, quorum apud Deum viuunt spiritus fabricamus. Nec ibi erigimus altaria in quibus sacrificemus martyribus, sed vni Deo & martyrum & nostro sacrificium immolamus: ad quod sacrificium sicut homines Dei, qui mundum in eius confession vicerunt, suo loco & ordine nominantur, non tamen à sacerdote qui sacrificat inuocantur, Deo quippe non ipsis sacrificat quamuis in memoria sacrificet eorum, quia Dei sacerdos est non illorum. Ipsum vero sacrificium corpus est Christi quod non offertur ipsis quia hoc sunt & ipsi. that is: We truly do not build temples to our martyrs as unto gods, but memories as unto dead men whose souls live with God. Neither do we there set up aultars in which we should sacrifice unto the martyrs, but to God only which is God both of the martyrs and of us, do we offer sacrifice: at which sacrifice they are named in their place and order, as men of God which have overcome the world in his confession: yet are they not called upon by the Priest that doth sacrifice, for he offereth sacrifice to God and not to them although he do sacrifice in their memory, because he is the Priest of God and not of them, and the sacrifice is the body of Christ which is not offered unto them because they them selves are the same. Here also beside building of churches, note that no sacrifice ought to be offered to Martyrs, but prayer is a sacrifice, therefore it ought to be offered only to God. Secondly, that Martyrs were not called upon in time of the sacrifice but only named for remembrance. Thirdly, that Altares were not built in the honor of Martyrs or other Saints as they be in Popish churches: as our Ladies altar. S. Peters altar. S. Laurences altar &c. Fourthly, that the body of Christ, which he saith was the sacrifice that was offered, was not the natural body of Christ but his mystical body, because he saith the Martyrs and it are all one, whereby it is manifest, that he meaneth the sacrifice of thanks giving offered to God for the redemption of his church by the death of Christ. Wherefore if this one place were well weighed, it will interpret and answer all places of the ancient doctors, where mention is made of sacrificing the body of Christ at the time of the communion. But to return to building of churches the same Augustine, contra Maximinum Arrianum. Lib. Titul. 11. hath these words: Nunc si templum alicui sancto angelo excellentissimo de lignis & lapidibus faceremus, anathematizar emin a veritate Christi, & ab Ecclesia Dei, quoniam creaturae exhiberemus eam seruitutem quae vni tantum debetur Deo? Si ergo sacrilegi essemus faciendo templum cuicun{que} creaturae, quomodo non est Deus verus cui non templum facimus, sed nos ipsi templum sumus? that is: If we should build a temple of wodde and stones to any holy and most excellent Angel, should we not be accursed from the Truth of Christ and from the Church of God, because we should show that service unto a creature which is due only unto God? Therefore if we should be sacrileges by making a temple to any creature, how is he not true God to whom we do not make a temple, but we our selves are a temple. If this be true, how be not the Papists accursed from the Truth of Christ, and from the Church of God which build and uphold churches to Angels, as S. Michaels, S. Gabriel's, &c? So that to build churches as Papists do, is church robbing or sacrilege. Furthermore whereas you will us to name one church whose chancell is not built in all fashions to serve popery. First it is manifest that the first Churches which were built for Christians had not the same fashion of chancels and other partes that most churches have in England, for that purpose read the Panegyricall oration made before Paulinus bishop of Tyrus. Euseb. lib. 10. cap. 4. In which is described the fashion of that church built in that city far unlike the moste parte of churches at this day in all partes, and specially in the chācel which was in the midst of that church, a place compassed in with grates or wooden latesses called Cancelli, whereof this word chancel is derived, and the alter stood in the midst of it whereof some similitude remaineth yet in old Cathedral churches. Contrariwise your chancells in most churches be at the East ende and the altar hard at the wall, there was also but one alter in that church, but you in every church must have many, it is certain also in their church the Ministers and Deacons stood round about the table or a • lter, but so they cannot about your aultars except some of them stand on the top of the wall or in the window. Moreover if you mark the most parte of old churches in England you shall plainly see, that the chancells are but additions built sense the churches, of likelihood by the parsons that disdained to have their place in the midst of the people as the old manner was. Also you may see some churches built round: as at London the Temple, and another is at Cambridge of y ^e same fashiō. And some churches have the steple at the Est ende, very vnhandsomely for placing of the rood lofte. Again many churches have cross Isles in which the people cannot see the chancell, nor the high alter, which argueth that there was no use of such chancells when they were built: For such churches as are latelie erected have the chancell and church all of one building, and are made of such fashion that men may see the high alter in every parte of them: Beside this, in the Oriental church, as their ceremonies are diverse from yours, so no doubt the fashion of their temples differeth from yours. As for chalices, the church in the beginning was content with wooden cups, and then came Zepherinus and brought in the use of glasses. Acacius Amidenus is commended for selling the golden and silver vessels of the church, to redeem captives. Socrat. lib. 7. cap. 21. S. Ambrose also Offic. lib. 2. cap. 8. saith the church hath gold, not to keep it but to be bestowed for necessary uses, for which it is lawful to break, melt, and sel, even the holiest vessels of all. But of your church it is true that one said of old time: ye had wooden chalices, and golden priests but now you have golden chalices, and wooden priests: your vestimentes are of as good stuff as your chalices. The old church knew none such, but as your own Authors write: when they went to celebrate they changed the affection of their mind rather than the garments of their body: as Antoninus witnesseth of Fulgentius. Howbeit we are content that your church by her gorgeous garments as well as by other things should declare it self to be that woman which is described to be clothed in purple, gold, perles, and such like ornaments Apoc. 17. Finally whereas you will us to name one church that for the special intent of the builders, was not prepared in all sortes for Popish practices: Although I could name many, yet for examples sake, I name Pantheon, a church in Rome, prepared by the special and only intent of the builders fo • Cybelle, the great mother of the gods and for all false gods of the heathen, which now is called the church of Mary and Alhalowes. Then this church with many other in Rome, and other places, being monuments of the faith and religion of the Pagans and not of yours, except yours and theirs be all one, as they are very like, you are bound by your promise to recant.

The 15. article containeth in effect 3. demands.

IT is an easy matter to name diverse companies agreeing in one meaning & belief: as the church of the Grecians, the church of the Ethiopians, the church of the Chaldeans, Moscouites, &c. But especially the whole company of Protestants in Europe do agree in all necessary articles of true faith, by which we are justified.

THe Greek church in doubts will be ruled by the Patriarch of Constantinople, and so will the rest of the Oriental churches by their chief Patriarchs and bishops. And the Protestants in Europe will also be ruled by their Superiors, so far as their superiors are ruled by God's his word.

TO the communion and company of the Grecians, I name the Moscouites and Russians agreeing in Religion, and so humbly affected, and these are not of the fellowship, that you call the Catholic communion: Among the Protestants, to the church of Saxony, I name the church of Dennemarcke, or to the church of Hel • etia, the church of France, or to the church of England the church of Scotland, but so, that none of these allow any consent or submission, but to the Truth, which must be tried only by God his word. And seeing none of these are of the Popish communiō, if your promise be anything worth, you must recant.

The 16. article containeth one demand, and one challenge.

SEeing you give so large scope, I will name S. Paul, who I think is confessed on both sides to be holy and learned, and a member of the true Church, whom I can prove by his writings, that in all articles of faith, he taught the same, which we believe. And for trial of this, because it would require a whole volume, if I should prove every particular article, wherein we dissent from you Papists: If you will name an article, wherein we agree not with S. Paul, If I be not able to prove that we agree with him in the meaning thereof, I will revoke that article and agree with you therein.

YOu shall never bring us, neither in the beginning, nor in the end to acknowledge that S. Paul is against us in any article of our Faith, but we agree wholly with him. Nevertheless I know what you mean, & will not be afraid to utter. Forasmuch as immediately after the Apostles time, corruption entered into the Church, which was hardly kept out, while they lived: as we may learn by the Epistle to the Corinthians, you think that we dare not depend upon any one man's judgment: and therein you are not deceived: for we must depend only upon God's word. But where you say there is none but he dissenteth from us in diverse articles of great importance, you say untruly: for you are not able to prove that Justinus Martyr, or Irenaeus, two of the most ancient authentical writers, that the Church next unto the Apostles had, are against us, in any point of doctrine wherein we differ from you? Yet are there certain errors in them, which neither you, nor we allow, as is touched before in the answer to the 11. article 1. deman. But they are both wholly against you in diverse articles of your doctrine, and namely in transubstantiatiō, which is one of the greatest articles of Popery: as Irenaeus, in the 34. cap. of his 4. book Contra heresies: Quemadmodum enim qui est a terra panis &c.. Even as the bread▪ which is of the earth after it hath received the invocation of God, is not now common bread, but the Eucharistie, or (bread of thanks giving) consisting of two things earthly & heavenly, so our bodies receiving the Eucharistie, are not now corruptible, having hope of resurrection. Here you see plainly, that Irenaeus affirmeth the sacrament, after consecration to consist of the earthly substance of bread: which may better be understood, when we know that he reasoneth against such heretics as denied the world to be made by God, saying that he would never have made so great a mystery of bread, which is a creature of the world, if the world had not been made by him. Justinus, in his second Apology to the Emperor. 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 &c. We do not receive these things as common bread and a common cup but even as Jesus Christ our Savior was incarnate by the word of God and took upon him flesh and blood for our salvation: So we are taught that this meat for which thanks is given by the word of prayer from him of which our flesh and blood are nourished by transmutation, is the flesh and blood of Jesus that was incarnate. Here, he plainly affirmeth that the substance of the Sacrament is turned into the nourishment of our bodies. Therefore it remaineth still after the consecration. The other writers of later years, as they have some errors which neither you nor we do allow in them, so we are not afraid to confess that they have some corruption, whereby you may seem to have color of defense for invocation of Saints, prayer for the dead, and diverse superstitious and superfluous ceremonies, yet not so addict to these, nor joined with such absurdities as yours are. But for the chief pointes of Christian Religion, and the foundation of our faith, that is, for the honor of God, the offices of Christ, Redemption, Justification, Satisfaction, the fruits of Christ his passion, Grace, faith, works, authority of God his word, authority of the Pope, real presence, transubstantiation, Communion in both kinds, Images, &c. the most approved writers Tertullian, Cyprian, Origen, Epiphanius, Hilarius, Chrysostomus, Ieronymus, Ambrosius, Augustinus, &c. are utterly against you, and therefore cannot be of your church. But for as much as they hold the foundation, that is Christ, though they have diverse errors & superstitions, they were doubtless, the members of the true Church of Christ, which because you are not able to disprove, reason would you should recant.

The 17. Article containeth 5. demands.

BEcause you would make simple men believe, that there be so many diverse sects of Protestants, as you have given them names, I will first discuss these sects, and afterward answer your question. Lutherans, you mean them that follow Luther's opinion of the Sacrament. Zwinglians, follow Calvin's judgment of the same. Confessionistes, them that exhibited their confession at Auspurge, which were both the Lutherans and Zwinglians, so these 3, names may be contracted into two: Lutherans and Zwinglians. As for Illyrians, if you call them of Flaccius Illyricus, they be Lutherans, in opinion of the Sacrament, and differ only in ceremonies, which cannot divide them from the faith. Calvin, and they that be of his judgment, agree plainly with Zwingli, so that of five names, there remain but two sortes differing in opinion, whereunto you join the Swenkefeldians and Anabaptists. Now to your question, these be not all of one Church, for y ^e Swenkefeldians & Anabaptists be detestable heretics, but y ^e Lutherans & Zuingliās (as it pleaseth you to cal thē) are of one true church, although they differ in one opinion, concerning y ^e Sacrament, for although the one affirm a real presence, y ^e other deny it, yet they both consent in this, that y ^e body of Christ, is received spiritually, not corporally, with the heart, and not with the mouth. Wherefore, this dissention is not so great (though there be error on the one side) but that they may be both of the Church of Christ, as well as S. Cyprian, the Martyr, and all the Bishops of Africa, and a great many of Asia, differing with Stephanus, bishop of Rome, and the rest of his opinion in rebaptizing such as were baptized by heretics.

WE have always abhorred the heresies of the Anabaptists, Libertines, Swenkefeldians, Dauidians, Seruitians, and all such. But that Luther & Zwingli, may be both of one Church, differing only in one opinion of the Sacrament, is declared before.

SAluation is the gift of God, and not in the power of any company, or sect of men: but this we affirm, that out of that Church, whereof we count Luther, and Zwingli, notwithstanding their diverse opinions (which is but in one matter of the Sacrament) to be members, there is no salvation.

NO man requireth you to believe all these, but the true Catholic Church only. Neither do we requite you to believe any one company of men, more then another: but to believe the truth before falsehood. Now, which of them hath the truth, that they all brag of, you must search in the word of truth, desiring the spirit of truth that you may understand and believe the truth, and so without doubt, you shall come to the knowledge of the truth, and of the Church of God, which is the pillar and stay of truth.

Such is your impudency in this matter, as in all other, that you would make men believe that the Anabaptists, Swenkefeldians, Libertins, and other abhominable heretics, be Protestants: But it is well that you can make none but fools think so: as for the Protestants, they need take no great deliberation to answer your demands but you had more need to lay your heads together to reconcile the Thomistes, Albertistes, Ockamistes, Scotistes, Reales, and Nominalls, which be all sects of Papists, and especially your Canonistes, and divines, about the articles of your religion, that is: whether the Pope be above the Council, or the Council above the Pope. Whether the Pope may err and not the Council, or whether the Council may err and not the Pope. These two: the Popes determination and the Councils determination, being the rules of truth in your religion and not agreed upon: how can any truth be certain in your Church? As for Luther, and Zwingli, they agree upon one rule of truth, that is the word of God, and differ only for the applying or laying of this rule, & yet but in one matter & that not the greatest. But you Papists, some holding of the Pope, and some of the Council, as rules of truth, can have no ground nor certainty thereof. Therefore if you would have me, or any man, to be of your belief. First determine how I shall know when I am in a right belief: one saith, if the council alloweth it, another saith if the Pope alloweth, what shall I do, when one of these is against another? yea when one Pope is against another, and one council against another, shall I think that truth changeth so often as they change. Moreover when one Pope granteth, that the council is above the Pope and that the Pope may err. Likewise one council granteth, that the Pope is above the council and that the council may err, as it hath been within the 200. years, the councils of Constance and Basel, determined that the council was above the Pope and that the Pope may err. Contrariwise, the council of Ferraria, and Florence, determined that the Pope was above the council and that the council might err. Martinus 5. the Pope chosen by the council of Constance, was of the same judgment that the council: But Eugenius 4. that gathered the council of Ferraria, and Florence against the council of Basel, was of the contrary judgment. Now I would say he were a witty fellow, that could reconcile this gear together. For, if he be a Canonist that holdeth this opinion: that the Pope cannot err, whē the Pope himself granteth that he may err, which way shall he turn him self? For, if this proposition be true: the Pope cannot err, then this is true also, that the Pope may err: for if he cannot err he cannot err in saying so: And if the Pope erred in saying, he could err where he cannot err, then this proposition is false, the Pope cannot err, so one proposition shall be both true and false, which is impossible. Likewise if he hold that hilde that the council cannot err, and the council it self confesseth it that it may err. Gentle master N. reconcile me these together, which concern a case that hath been in practice and still is, in the Papistry, and may here trouble a man's conscience that would believe your church, and if he have any wit, restrain him forever coming into your church: If you cannot untie this knot nor wind yourself out of this maze, unless you will be still obstinate, it were wisdom for you to recant.

The 18. article hath but one demand.

I Aunswere that they which cannot be content with the name of Christians, but chose unto them selves new names after the calling of their sect masters: as Arians, Pelagians, Franciscans, Dominicanes, Benedictines, Gilbertines, Augustinians, Scotistes, Thomistes, Albertistes, &c. are none of the Catholic church: But the true Christians which desier most of all to be so called, and compting it a most honorable name without choosing any other name, be of the Catholic church, although in reproach, they be called of you Calvinists, and Lutherans. As for the name of Protestants, came first of them that made protestatiō against the decree of Spires in Germany, and from that time hath been attributed to the professors of the Gospel: which name they do not so much delight in, as you do in the name of Papists. Therefore, if nothing else do let you but the name▪ there is no cause why you should not recant.

The 19. article hath but one demand.

THose that by true Christians, have been called and counted for heretics, have proved so in deed, and therefore the Papists, being called and counted heretics of true Christians, without doubt, are heretics in deed. But it hath not been always true, that they, which of the people commonly called Christians, were called and taken for heretics, proved so in deed. For the true Christians of the Arian people, that were called Christian people, were called and taken for heretics, and in reproach, were called Homousians, and Athanasians, yet they proved and were in deed, true Christians and no heretics. So the true Christians at this day, being of the Papists, which after a sort, are named Christians: called heretics, and in reproach Protestants, and Calvinists, in that their faith agreeth with the word of God, prove them selves in deed, to be true Christians, & no heretics. Therefore you have bound yourself to recant.

The 20. article hath 3. demands.

YOu yourselves, will not accompt the Grecians for true Christians, and yet by consent of nations, and prescription of as many years as you can prescribe, they be, and ever have been called Catholics, if you say: they, are not called by you, I answer: no more are you so called by thē. And sense the time that you departed from them, as great a portion of the world, and as many nations, have called them Catholics, as you are able to show on your side. Therefore either you must compte them true Christians, or else you must grant that they, which have ben long called Catholics, are not always true Christians.

HE is a foolish sophister, that reasoneth from names to things, as you do most vainly and childishly: we mislike the names of Church, & Catholic, because we do sometimes use these names: Congregation, and Gospellers or Protestants, and therefore be no true members of the Catholic church: we neither mislike nor mistrust those names as you slander us, neither do we boast and trust only in these names, without the things them selves, as you do, and as your forefathers the wicked Jews, crying: the Temple of the Lord, the Temple of the Lord, the Temple of the Lord: when they had nothing less than the Temple of the Lord, but rather a den of thieves: So, you cry, the Catholic church, the Catholic church, the Catholic church, when you have nothing in deed but the synagoge of Satan. But because you make so much of these two names, Church, and Catholic, let us see what great mysteries are contained in them. This word, Church, cometh of the Greek word Kyriaka, in Latin Dominica, in English, the Lord his house: for so were they wont, in old time to call their temples, or oratories, so that this word, church, proprely signifieth a material temple, and cannot signify the fellowship and communion of Christian people, but by a figure. Therefore if we other whiles use this word, Congregation, which cannot deny, but it is the English word of this Greek name Ecclesia, that the Scripture useth, and signifieth without figure y ^e same thing that this word, Church, doth by a figure, you may be ashamed, if you were not impudent, to find any fault with us for so doing. Likewise this word, Catholic, cometh of the Greek word, and signifieth Universal, or over all, which word the common people doth not understand. Therefore we expound it plainly and say: that the Catholic Church, is the Congregation of Christ, dispersed over all the world. What reasonable man can reprehende this doing, and not rather your folly, which think it enough, if the people can prate like parates: Catholic, Catholic, and understand not what Catholic meaneth. Thus, as we do not refuse these words: Catholic, and Church, because they are commonly received, so do we interpret them, by Universal, and Congregation, because they are not else, commonly understanded.

HEre you bewraye yourself evidently, and acknowledge, that we do not slander you, when we say: you boast only of the Catholic church: For you declare plainly, that you have no better argument then the very name of the Catholic Church, to prove, that you be the Catholic Church: if this be the best argument, all the rest is little worth. For if the only name of an honest man, is enough to prove an honest man, many a knave may prove him self an honest man, and if the very name of learning, make a learned man, many an asse may prove him self to be a learned man, or if y ^e name of a good Christian, prove a man to be a good Christian, every hypocrite may prove him self a good Christian. Likewise if you have no greater argument, that can more condemn us, then that we are not called the Catholic Church, then can you no more condemn us, then Christ and his Apostles, that were not only, not called the true Church, but also were called heretics & deceivers by the people of the Jews, which were as rightly called God his people, as they that give you the name of Catholic Church, are called the Christian world. It is well you have nothing better to prove your Church, then the honorable name of Catholic, nor anything more to condemn our Church, then that we are not called Catholic, and yet we have as many nations, and more then you have, that by public authority, call us Catholics, and you heretics, although you most shamefully slander us, that we do refuse the name being offered unto us. Seeing you boast so much of the name, Catholic, you shall hear what some of the old writers judged thereof. Chrysostom, in an homelie, that he writeth of Adam, and Eve, in the later ende hath these words, after he hath told them that he hath no need to repeat such depe questions, as those men have handled which have fought against heretics: Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secūdum praedictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt, vt prorsus opinemur Catholicum, quod apparuerit praefixis sententijs esse contrarium, that is, we believe that what so ever the Apostles have taught us according to the foresaid rules is sufficient, in so much that in no wise, we think that to be Catholic which shall appear to be contrary to the sentences before determined. By this you may see that Chrysostom thought it not sufficient to have the name of Catholic, for he judged nothing to be Catholic in deed, that was contrary to the rule grounded in the writings of the Apostles. Wherefore how so ever you boast of the honorable name of Catholic, except you can prove that your opinions agree with the Scripture, they are not Catholic in deed, by Chrysostom's judgment. S. Augustine also, in his book de Genese ad literam imperfecto cap. 1. speaking of the Catholic faith, saith: This is an article thereof, that we should believe. Constitutam ab eo matrem Ecclesiam quae Catholica dicitur, ex eo quia vniuersaliter perfecta est, & in nullo claudicat & per totum orbem diffusa est. That he hath appointed a mother Church, which is called Catholic, of this, because it is universally perfect, & halteth in nothing, and is dispersed over all the world. S. Augustine here, is not content that the Church be only called Catholic, but showeth when it is that, which it is called, and therefore the popish Church, not being universally perfect, as most Papists will confess, that many things in their church have need of reformation, & halting in many things from the truth of God his word, neither yet being dispersed over all the world but contained in a corner of Europa, is not by S. Augustine's rule the Catholic Church. Furthermore S. Augustine, contra Epistolam Fundamēti cap. 4. against the Manichees plainly declareth, how far forth, not only the name of Catholic, but also how far universally, consent, succession, antiquity, are to be allowed: Vt ergo hanc omittam sapientiam, &c. Therefore to omit this wisdom which you do believe to be in the Catholic Church, there be many other things which may hold me most righteously in her bosom. The consent of people and nations holdeth me, the authority begun with miracles, nourished with hope, increased with charity, confirmed by antiquity, doth hold me. The succession of Priests from the very seat of Peter the Apostle, unto whom our Lord after his resurrection, committed his sheep to be fed even unto this present bishopric, doth hold me. Last of all that very name of Catholic doth hold me, which name, not without a cause, this Church alone hath so obtained, among so many heresies, that whereas all heretics would be called Catholics, yet when a stranger shall ask: where men meet at the Catholic Church, none of the heretics dare show him, either their principal temple or house. All this, you will say maketh exceeding much for us: yea, but hear that which followeth: Apud vos autem, vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat, sola personat veritatis pollicitatio: quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur, vt in dubium venire non possit: proponenda est omnibus illis rebus, quibus in Catholica teneor, that is: But among you where there is none of these things, that may provoke or hold me, there soundeth the only promise of truth, which if it be shown so manifest that it cannot come in doubt, is to be preferred before all those things, by which I am holden in a Catholic Church. By this you may plainly see, that though consent, antiquity, succession, and the name of Catholic, be good confirmation, when they are joined with the truth, yet when a truth is severed from them,, it is more to be regarded then they all: & it is truth that maketh Catholic, to be esteemed, and not Catholic, that giveth authority to truth: Wherefore, seeing it were better to prove your Church, to be Catholic, then to boast, that it is so called, & to disprove our Church so to be, then to say: it is not so called: The best way for you, is to recant.

The 21. article containeth but one demand.

THis demand, is like a drunken man's dream, having neither head nor foot: whether they should believe the church was lost: whether they should believe the church that was unknown to them, &c. But if your demand have any sense in it: This is my answer. The church was never lost, but hidden from the eyes of the world: Therefore, if the people that where taught that article: To believe the Catholic church, and were baptized to your church, understood that this church, was not the Catholic church, which was so commonly called, but that God had a secret Congregation, which was in deed, the true Catholic church, they were bound to forsake your church, and to believe the secret Congregation: for if a man had ben baptized of the Arians and being brought up by them, had learned that article, to believe the Catholic church, which the Arians would expound to be them selves, if afterward, by God his help, this man understood, that the church of the Arians, was not the catholic church, as he was taught it was, but that Athanasius, and a few other, that were banished and persecuted, were the true Catholic church: he was bound to leave the Arians, commonly called the church, and to join him self with the secret, banished, hid, and persecuted church of Christ. But as for your Popish church, in that time of blindness and error taught not the people that article, nor any other but kept them back from the knowledge, as well of that article, as of all other things that were necessary to their salvation: for you taught them nothing else, but to pronounce, and that full il fauoredly, like popingeys, certain latin words, which they understood no more than stocks or stones. So that the people had no instruction of you, no not of the name of God, in many places but that they received by uncertain talk of their parents, as it were from hand to hand: for how many thousand parishes are there in England, that within these 60. years would declare, that they never heard sermon in their life. As for that they heard of their service, they learned as much of it, as of the ringing of their belles, which was a sound without understanding. Therefore you may be ashamed to speak of teaching the people, their belief and all things necessary for salvation, when you have counted it heresy to learn their creed in English, or to read the scripture in English, in which is contained all thing necessary to be known for everlasting salvation. Finally because you require me to show you that the Christian people of those days, were bound to believe any other church than that, which taught them the article of the church and baptized them, I trow I will so show it you, that for both your ears, you dare not deny it: how say you? The Christian people of the Greek church, which were taught by the Greek church, that article of the church, and by the same Greek church were baptized, whether ought they to believe any other church but the Greek church? If you say no: then you acknowledge the Greek church to be the true church which denieth the Popes authority, if you say yea: Then you are welcome home, you recant.

The 22. article, although it be very confuse, yet it containeth in effect 3. demands.

NO man alive that knoweth what the true Church meaneth, will say, that any man can be saved out of the true Church, for he that is not a member of the body of Christ, cā by no means receive any benefit of Christ to his salvation. Therefore how long so ever the true Church were hidden, whether it were a thousand years (as you bear men in hand that we should say) or two thousand years it is not material, this is certain, that out of this Church, none could be saved, and though you count it small, as in deed in respect of the world, it is but a small flock, and few are elected, and few find the streit gate of life. Luke 12. Matth. 7. & 20. yet is the number of it greater, then man's eye commonly can discern. As when Elias thought that he only had been left alone of the true Church: God answered, that he had yet reserved 7000. that never bowed their knee to Baal. 1. Reg. 19. And as Isaiah declareth when the people should be almost all destroyed, yet a remnant should be saved, which though it seemed to be small, yet it should overflow and fill all the world with righteousness, Esa. 10. and though it shall be like a gathering of grapes when vintage is ended, or the shaking of an olive tree when men think they have left no • hing upon it, yet there be two or three in the top among the boughs, & four or five under the leaves in the highest branches. Isaiah. 17. & 24.

THe true Catholic Church was never so secrete or hidden but it might be known of all those that had eyes to see it, whose hearts were lightened with the spirit of God and were enstructed by the word of God, that they might understand the truth, and know the spouse of Christ from the common strompet of Antichrist.

WE take not upon us to medle with God his judgments, whom he condemneth, & for what causes, further then the word of God teacheth us, namely that as many as have not believed in the only son of God, are condemned for their unbelief, other secret causes we remit to his secrete counsel and knowledge. And whereas you say that the popish church practiseth all holy functions that Christ left for the salvation of his Church, it is most false: for first you do not preach remission of sins in the blood of Christ only, for either you preach not all, or else you preach remission of sins in anything, rather then the only merits of Christ, as in men's own merits, works of supererogation, pardons, masses, beggarly ceremonies, as holy water, auriculer confession &c. Secondly, you minister not the Sacraments purely according to Christ his institution, but either corrupt and defile them with man's traditions, as you do Baptism, or else clean change the use of them, as in the Lord's Supper, which you make a Sacrifice, an idol, a Priests breakfast, and defraud the people of the one half of the sacrament, as though you were wiser then he, that instituted it in both kinds. Thirdly, discipline you have converted into tyranny and covetousness, retaining nothing but the name of it alone: Wherefore seeing you exercise no holy function after Christ his institution, but clean contrary to the same, and do obstinately defend the filthy whore of babylon against the clear light of the Gospel, & the true spouse of Christ, ye shall be damned except you recant.

The 23. article containeth 2. demands.

YOu would fain have a great number of Articles and therefore you bring in one matter often times in diverse phrase of words, that it might seem a new matter when it hath been uttered twice or thrice before: as this Article is contained before in the 5.8. and 9. Articles, where you shall find it more largely answered. But let us see, what this strange demand requireth, we must show him a church, or else imagine by good reason a church of Christ without preaching, ministering, and discipline for a thousand years together. Although we will not grant that it hath so longe continued without these exercises, yet because you give us leave to imagine, we can imagine that it may as well continue without public preaching, ministering, and discipline for a thousand years, as it did for three hundred years before Constantine. But you will say there was preaching ministering, and correcting, though it were not known to the tyrants and persecutors, so say I unto you, for that thousand years there was gathering together for preaching, ministering, and correcting, though the Pope and his persecuting Prelates could not always see it, nor come to the knowledge of it: for if they had once intelligence of it they smarted for it, as is known by the stories of the Waldenses, Bohemians, &c. Furthermore continual exercise of preaching, ministering of sacraments, and executing of discipline, are notes of a quiet and peaceable Congregation, not of a dispersed, persecuted, and disquieted Church. How often doth S. Cyprian cōplain, that the brethren could not be gathered together for executing of discipline, whereby it is certain, that likewise they could not be gathered together for other exercises. Therefore the intermission of these exercises in a persecuted Church, doth not prove the same to be no true Church: But where so ever there be two or three gathered together in the name of Christ, there is he in the midst of them. But whereas you require the spirit of prophesy (except you mean the gift of interpreting the Scriptures) the Church in the most quiet and flourishing state, may want the spirit of showing things to come, as well as the gifts of tongues, healing, &c.

WE utterly deny, that beside the true Church, there was an untrue church, that practiced those offices to the salvation of any man: for once again I tell you, you have neither the preaching of the word, nor ministering of Sacraments, nor execution of discipline, according to the truth of God his institution, but either altogether changed, or else greatly corrupted. And whereas you say, that the popish church only hath practiced these offices: I ask you again whether the Greek Church be a parte of your Church, and whether the Papists in England be a part of your Church. The Grecians you will say, are not: but the English Papists are. Then have I found out by your own judgment, the Church of the Grecians, practicing these offices being an untrue church, & the church of y ^e English Papists not practicing the same, yet granted of you to be a true Church. Therefore you are bound to recant.

The 24. article containeth 10. demands.

AS the number of your articles doth draw to an ende, so your matter is far spent, and therefore to make up your number, you must repeat one thing twice. This demand is contained before in the 11. and 12. articles, where also it is fully answered. Notwithstanding, seeing it cometh again it shall be briefly answered in this place. The Church is not called the pillar of truth, because it should stand always in the sight of the world: for then the defection, which S. Paul speaketh of, could not have come, neither should the Church fly into the wilderness, as was declared to S. John: But it is called the pillar of truth, because that where so ever the Church is, either visible or invisible, there is the truth. So though the Church were hid a certain time in the wilderness, yet there was truth with the Church. You seem to be a good Arithmetrician: for no number soundeth in your mouth but a thousand. Nevertheless how long so ever it was, the pillar of truth decayed not, And as God gave his spirit, diverse times was bold to challenge preaching and ministering of the Sacraments, yea, and so boldly, that it cost many of the chalengers their lives. As Berengarius, Bruno, Marsilus de Pandua, Johannes de Gaudano, Johannes Wycliffe, Waldo, Johannes Hus, Ieronymus de Praga, &c. Thus it is manifest that the Church hath diverse times challenged her right, and withstood falsehood.

THere is no man can show this: for it is a false lie, that all gifts of the spirit, & function of the holy Ghost were either taken from the true Church, or given to the adulterous church. And this hath been shown more then once or twice before.

THe Devil hath bent all his force and ordinance, he hath armed all the power of darkness, he stirred up • yrantes, heretics, Popes, Saracenes, and Turks to destroy the Church, the dragon, that old serpent Satanas, the Devil, stood before the woman to devour her child, he persecuted her into the wilderness, he cast out of his mouthe, a great river to carry her away, he made war with the rest of her seed that keep the commandments of God. Apoc. 12. but yet in despite of the devil, the Pope, and all her enemies, she is to this day preserved, and shall be to the worlds end: Therefore the gates of Hell, have not prevailed against her, nor the promise of Christ hath failed. And whereas you say, that your bastard church hath spoiled her of all holy actions, government, and Christian name, it is a most impudent lie, as it is true, that you saw a bastard church usurped her holy name, counterfaicted her holy actions, and turned her government into tyranny.

SHe hath not been neglected of him, but felt his continual aide, he hath given her safe deliverance of her child, & taken it up from the cruelty of the Dragon, he hath provided her a place in the wilderness, he hath made war with the Dragon for her sake, and driven him out of heaven, he hath given her Eagles wings to fly into the wilderness, he hath caused the earth, to swallow up the water that should have carried her away, he hath given the remnant of her seed, Victory over the Dragon. Finally, his merciful protection and loving care over her, hath never more notably appeared than that against so many dangers and enemies all this while he hath preserved her, until such time as he hath thought good, now to bring her out of her secret place in the wilderness, into the open sight of the world again.

THe true church, consisting of God his elect, and the lively members of the body of Christ, shall never commit such adultery that she shall be divorced from him. But the visible church, by Idolatry and superstition may separate her self from Christ, and be refused of him, as God speaketh by Isaiah to the church of Jerusalem cap. 1. How is the faithful City become an harlot? It was full of judgment, and justice lodged therein, but now they are murderers. Thy silver is become dross, and thy wine is mixed with water. Thy Princes are rebellious and companions of thieves &c. even so may he say to the church of Rome: how is that faithful church become an harlot, true Faith and Religion have dwelled in her, but now Idolatry and superstition: thy silver is turned into dross, and thy wine is mixed with water, thou hast nothing pure and uncorrupted, thy Princes be rebellious Antichrists &c. Thus I have shown that the visible church, may become an adulteress, and be deuorced from Christ.

THis hath been often answered before, Christ hath never wanted his spouse in earth, though the blind world cannot always see her, or when they see her, will not acknowledge her to be his spouse, but persecute her, as if she were an adulteress.

THese are but one thing in diverse phrases, as he hath never wanted his spouse in earth, so hath he never been an head without a body, and seeing these words in this sense are relatives (for Christ is called a head in respect of the Church which is his body, and the Church is called a body, in respect of Christ that is her head) I answer you by a rule of the Logicians: No man knoweth a relative, except he know the correlatiue thereof, Therefore, though Christ had a body in earth, yet could it be known of none, but such as knew Christ the head of that body. Of whom, when the Papists were ignorant, specially when they appointed another head in earth, it is no marueill, if they could not see the body of Christ, though he have never been without it.

THis hath been answered immediately before, it sufficeth that it be known to Christ the head. As he saith: My sheep hear my voice and I know them. John 10. And to them that be of the members of the same body. As for the rest, it is not necessary that they should always see it, which will never acknowledge it. Neither is it so small, as it is thought of, it is dispersed in many places over all the world, and yet few in comparison of the malignant church, whose number is as the sand of the sea, &c. Apoc. 20.

NOthing else is to be looked for of the world, but hatred and contempt, as Christ him self saith: You shall be hated of all men for my names sake. Matth. 10. & S. Paul biddeth us look on our calling, not many wise men, according to the flesh, not many mighty men, & not many noble men: but God hath chosen the foolish things of this world to confound the wise, and the weak of this world to confound the strong. 1. Cor. 1. And what hath the true church to boast in but in the Cross of Christ. Gal. 6. than the which, nothing is more shameful, contemptible or reprochefull to the wisdom of this world: what knowledge or preaching hath the true church but Jesus Christ crucified, which to the Jews is an offense and to the Greeks foolishness, but to them that be called, both Jews and Greeks it is the power and wisdom of God to everlasting salvation. 1. Cor. 1. Rom. 1. So that as the church in the sight of God and his Saints is most glorious and honorable, so in the sight of the world it hath always been most base and contemptible.

THis also hath ben declared before in the second demand of this Article. There be certain singular perogatives, which are not continually with God his Church: as the gift of tongues, the gift of prophesy, the gift of healinges &c. but there be other perogatives of God his spirit, that are necessary for the salvation of God his elect, as the gift of understanding, the gift of Faith, the spirit of adoption, &c. and these the spou • e of Christ hath never wanted. Wherefore if you will be partaker of those benefits which are received in the church of Christ, you must forsake your Romish religion, and recant.

The 25. article hath 2. demands.

THe reader must not be offended with me for any tedious repetition of mine answers, seeing you give the occasion, by propounding your demands so often. This demand hath a false principle: that the church ought to be a Christian man's only stay in all troubles and tempests of doctrine: for whensoever any such tempests do arise, there is as great question and doubt of the Church, as there is controversy of the doctrine: for as every heretic challengeth unto him self the truth of opinions, so also doth he challenge the possession of the church, so that the church is always in as great question as the doctrine. And then is it to be sought out and tried only by the scriptures, as we have declared at large in the answer to the 4. Article, 2. demand. Secondly whereas you demand: whether she could be so hid or close that no man could find her, because I have answered to this demand four or five times already, I will now answer in one word: Although she was bidden and close from the world, yet was she known to them that were her children.

THe Church hath never been afraid to do her office towards her children and true members, in teaching, • xhorting, comforting, confirming, &c. neither hath the spirit of God failed to lead her into all truth, and Christ hath been with her ever more, and shall be to the worlds end. But that the spirit of God, truth, and the Church of Christ, should depart from the greatest number of the world, is proved by S. Paul, 2. Thess. 2. and by the Revelation of S. John. Apoc. 12. Therefore if the spirit of truth did lead you, you should recant.

The 26. article containeth in effect but 3. demands.

THere is no man of what age or years soever he be that can be saved, except he be a member of the Catholic church. But how necessary it is to believe the Catholic church, it is very doubtful, as you demand, and as the conclusion of this article seemeth to require. If you mean that it is necessary to believe the Catholic church, that is to say, that God hath an holy universal Congregation, I grant it is necessary to believe. But I utterly deny that y ^e Romish church is that holy Catholic church. But if you mean (as it seemeth) and as the rest of the Papists do interpret that article, I believe the Catholic church, that is: I believe, whatsoever the church doth allow, to be true: I deny that it is necessary to salvation, that a Christian man should so believe the Catholic church, both because the church may err, & also because something may be commonly received of the church, which is not material to salvation. And that this is a false interpretation of this article of our Creed, I believe the Catholic church, that is: I believe what so ever she doth set forth or maintain, to be true, appeareth manifestly by the words them selves: For whoever was so ignorant in the Latin tongue, to think that Credere Ecclesiam, and Credere Ecclesiae, were all one in signification. In deed if the words were: Credo Ecclesiae Catholicae, in the dative case, this interpretation might take place, but when it is in the accusative case, Credo Ecclesiam Catholicam, A boy that would conster it otherwise than thus: I believe that there is a Catholic church, were worthy to have a doosen stripes for his labor. Moreover this common distinction of Credere in Deum, that is: to put our trust in God. Credere Deum, that is: to believe that there is a God, and Credere Deo, that is: to give credit to God, that he speaketh the truth, plainly overthroweth this foolish and false interpretation: For we say not: Credo in Ecclesiam, that is: I put my whole trust in the Church, for that were blasphemy, against God, in whom only we must believe, neither do we say: Credo Ecclesiae, that is: I give credit to the Church, as though she should always speak the truth: But we say and confess against all heretics and schismatics: Credo Ecclesiam &c. that is: I believe, that there is one Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic church, whereof I am a member &c. Finally, when the articles following, are spoken in one context and phrase, it cannot be chosen, but that they must have one kind of interpretation Communionem Sanctorum, Remissionem peccatorum, Carnis resurrectionem, that is: I believe the Communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the Resurrection of the body, &c. whereof the interpretation must needs be this: I believe that there is a Communion of Saints, that there is forgiveness of sins, &c. Even so I believe, that there is a Catholic Church, which is an article of our creed, necessary to be believed of every Christian man, but to believe all and everything that the Catholic church, by commō consent doth maintain, is no article of our Faith, and therefore not necessary to salvation.

BEcause these colewortes have been sodden twice or thryse already, they are not worthy to be shown in several dishes, but even as they are here mingled all together in an hochpotte. Of these notes that you make proper to the Catholic Church (as it hath been declared before) some are not always necessary in y ^e catholic church: As open preaching in the face of the world, open ministering of Sacraments and execution of discipline, these are not to be required in a persecuted Church. Some were proper for a time, and then ceased, as working of miracles, and diverse other functions of the spirit. Some are never necessary in the Church, as succession of Bishops, uniformity in ceremonies, &c. But of all these notes, there is not one that is proper to the Church of Rome: for she hath not always practiced open preaching, and never preached the word of truth, she hath converted but few nations to her Religion, from Gentilitie, and them rather by war, than by preaching: she never had sense she first arose, the ministering of sacraments according to Christ his institutiō, she hath hard matters in controversy, not for furtherance of Justice, but for love of money. Her iudiciarie power, may be dispensed withal for money. She hath had no orderly succession of Bishops, except an hore be an orderly Bishop of the Church of Rome: And except so many schisms as they write of, be orderly successions: she hath not uniformity in all ceremonies, for diverse nations, and diverse Churches in these nations have diverse ceremonies, as Sarum, York, Bangor, &c. in England: she hath not unity in faith: for it is not yet determined, of one of the greatest articles of Popish faith, whether the Pope be above the church: she hath no holy functions of God his spirit, but profane usages of men's inventions: she hath no true miracles, but the power of Antichrist in lying signs and wonders. She hath nothing less then the true sense of God his word, which submitteth the same to her own corrupt and changeable judgment. She is not bewtified with estates commended in Scripture, as Apostles, Evangelists, Prophets, Pastors and Teachers, but with Popes, Cardinals, Monks, Canons, Friars, &c. In steed of virgins, she hath filthy strumpets, her Nuns, or else such foolish virgins as bring no oil in their lamps: she hath no Martyrs, but obstinate traitors, as Becket, Fisher, More, &c. she hath no confessors of truth, though she have ten thousand mainteyners of falsehood and lies: Wherefore if these be the notes of y ^e Catholic Church, y ^e Church of Rome can in no wise be that same.

I Have proved, even immediately before that not one of those notes, which you count to be marks of the true Church, is proper to your Church. And therefore it is not the truth, neither ought it to be obeyed in anything. And as for doubts that arise by difficulty of Scripture, or contention of heresy, must be resolved and determined, as it is abundantly declared before, only by the Scriptures: for the hard places of the Scripture must be opened by easy places, and heretics must be confuted, by the Scriptures: for there is never heresy, but there is as great doubt of the Church, as of the matter in question, only the Scripture is the stay of a Christian man's conscience, which I would wish that you would truly embrace and recant.

The 27. article containeth 5. demands.

THe true and only Church of Christ, can never be void of God his spirit, and yet she may err from the truth, and be deceived, in some things, even as there is no true Christian man that is void of God his spirit, for he that hath not the spirit of Christ, is none of his. Rom. 8. yet may every true Christian err, and be deceived in some things, according to the saying of the Scripture, every man is a liar. Wherefore the whole Church militant consisting of men, which are all liars, may err all together, as every part thereof, although neither the whole Church nor any true member thereof be void of God his spirit.

THis gentle offer must needs be taken, I will prove unto you, that the church of Rome, hath falsely interpreted diverse sentences of scripture, and therefore by that which she hath done, it cannot be doubted but that she may do it. S. Augustine was in this error, that he thought Infantes must receive the sacrament of the body and blood of Christ, under pain of damnation, and was deceived by false interpretation of this scripture: Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood &c. John. 6. This error and false interpretation, he affirmeth to be common to all the Western church, & to Pope Innocent him self. Contra duas epist. Pelag. ad Bonifacium lib. 2. cap. 4. & contra Iulianum lib. 1. cap. 2. Furthermore the second Council of Nice, how many texts of scripture doth it falsely interpret, which it were to tedious to repeat, yet for examples sake I will rehearse some of them. God made man to his own image Gen. 1. therefore we must have images in the church. No man lighteth a candle and setteth it under a bushel Math. 5. therefore images must be set upon the altars. As we have heard, so we have seen in the City of our God, Psal. 48. that is: God must not be known by only hearing of his word, but also by sight of images. If these be not true interpretations I report me to you. Beside these, I will bring you a sentence of holy Scripture, not only falsely interpreted in sense, but also falsified in words, and concerning not a small matter, but even one of the chief articles of our Faith. It is written in the 10. chapter of the Gospel after S. John the 29. verse 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 . My Father which gave thē unto me (speaking of his sheep) is greater than all. This sentence, hath the Council of Lateran, holden under Pope Innocent the 3. where were present 70. Metropolitans, 400. Bishops, 12. Abbates, and 800. Priors commentualles in all 1300. Prelates, falsified in words, after this manner, Pater quod dedit mihi, maius est omnibus, that is: That which the Father hath given me, is greater than all. This sentence they allege, to prove that God the Father begetting his Son from everlasting, gave his own substance unto him, the words be in the 2. Canon. Pater enim ab aeterno filium generando, suam substantiam ei dedit, iuxta quod ipse testator: Pater quod dedit mihi, maius est omnibus. At dici non potest, quod partem suae substantiae illi dederit, & partem retinuerit ipse sibi, cum substantia Patris indiuisibilis sit &c. that is to say: For the Father, begetting his son, from everlasting, gave him his own substance, according as he himself witnesseth: that which the Father gave me, is greater than all. But it cannot be said, that he gave him part of his substance, and kept parte unto him self, when as the substance of the Father is indivisible &c. Go your ways now and persuade us, that your church cannot interpret any sentence of the scripture, falsely, when the Lateran Council, which is your represented church hath thus both falsefied, and falsely interpreted, this scripture. Perswade men, that they may safely lean to the interpretation of your church, when among a thousand and three hundred Prelates, gathered canonically in a Council, not one was found that could espy such gross abusing of the word of God, but let it pass in a Canon, under the name of the whole Council. Perswade men, that in all controversies, & condemning of errors, they must be ruled by the determination of your Church, When the Fathers of the Lateran Council, cannot confute the error of Joachim Abbot, concerning the Divinity of Christ, but by falsefying and false interpreting of scripture. These few examples of an infinite number, I have set forth, because they are sufficient, both to satisfy your challenge, and to persuade the simple, that the church of Rome may falsely interpret the scripture, which you would bear them in hand were impossible.

THe true and only church of God, is so guided by God his spirit and direct • d by his word that she cannot induce any damnable error to continue. Yet, as it is declared before, she hath no such privilege granted, but that she may be deceived, in some things: for her knowledge is imperfect, and her prophesying is imperfect. 1. Cor. 13. And it is true that S. Augustine saith: even the whole church is taught to say: Forgeue us our trespasses. And if general Councils be the church represented (as you Papists do teache) S. Augustine plainly affirmeth that they may err: De Baptismo contra Donatistas, lib. 2. cap. 2. Quis autem nesciat sanctam scripturam Canonicam tam veteris quam noui Testamenti &c. And who knoweth not, that the holy Canonical scripture, as well of the old, as of the new Testament, is contained within her certain bounds: and that it is so preferred, before all later writings of bishops, that of it, no man may in any wise doubt, or dispute, whether it be true, or whether it be right, what so ever is known to be written therein: and that the writings of bishops, which have been written, or are now in writing, may be reprehended, if they have gonne astraie, anything from the truth, both by the saying that is perhaps more wise, of any man, that is more skillful in that matter, and by the more grave authority and wisdom of other better learned bishops, and also by Councils: and that even those Councils which are gathered in every region or province, ought to give place without all doubt, to the authority of the general Councils, which are gathered out of all the Christian world: and that even the very general Councils, may often be amended, the former by the later, when as by any trial of things, that is opened, which before was shut, and that is known which before was hidden, without any swelling of wicked pride, without any stubbornness of arrogance, without any contention of peuishe envy: with holy Humility, with Catholic peace, with Christian charity. Thus far, S. Augustine, which clearly affirmeth, that general Councils may often err, which may often be amended, but that the authority of God his word, is to be preferred before the writings of all Doctors, and Decrees of all Councils, and that it only cannot err. The Council of Carthage the 3. ca. 23. determined, that all prayers at the altar, should be directed only to the Father, and not to the Son, or the holy Ghost, whether this be an error to define that it is unlawful to pray to God the Son, and God the holy Ghost, let every man judge. But you will except, that this was a provincial Synod, and not a general Council. But I answer you, it hath the authority of a general Council, because it was confirmed in the sixth general Council holden at Constantinople in Trullo. And as for the Popish church, that it may err, what need we better proof than the prayer, which it maketh, after the ending of every general Council, Precamur scilicet vt ignorantiae parcas & errori indulgeas, that is we pray truly that thou wouldest spare our ignorance & pardō our error. And again, Et quia conscientia remordente tabescimus, ne aut ignorantia, nos traxerit in errorom, aut praeceps forsitan voluntas impulerit a Iustitia declinare, ob hoc te poscimus, te rogamus, vt si quid offensionis in hac Concilij celebritate attraximus, condonare, & remissibile facere digneris. that is: And because we are grieved with remorse of conscience, lest either ignorance have drawn us into error, or perhaps rash will hath driven us to decline from Justice, therefore we pray thee, we beseech thee, that if we have drawn unto us any offense in the celebration of this Council, thou wouldest vouche safe to pardon, and to make it remissible &c. If it be impossible for the general Council to err, what need they pray to God to pardon their error, and when their own conscience condemneth them and compelleth them to confess, and that before God, that they may err, what impudence is it in any man, to contend that they cannot err? Furthermore the second Council of Nice, determined that Angels, and souls of men had bodies, were visible, and circumscriptable, and therefore might be painted, and this it affirmeth to be the judgment of the Catholic church, Con. Nice. 2. Actione 5. If this be not to induce an error, to make men believe that Angels and spirits have bodies visible and circumscriptable, there was never any error sense the world began. Finally, when they say the Pope cannot err, they acknowledge that such general Councils as condemned Popes, for heretics, did err, as the sixth general Council of Constantinople in Trullo, which condemned and accursed Pope Honorius for an heretic, Actione 13. Even as Pope Leo, the 2. did also, as appeareth in his epistle, to the Emperor Constantine. Also the Council of Constance did err, which condemned Pope John the 23. for denying the immortality of the soul, and the resurrection of the body. Session. 11. which Council, Pope John him self affirmed to be most holy, and that it could not err. Session. 12. And the Council of Basil did err, which deposed Pope Eugenius, the 4. Session. 34. the same Council being confirmed by Pope Nicolas the 5. Session 43. If you say: these two last Councils did not err, in condemning and deposing these Popes: Then the great general, and OEcumenicall Council of Ferraria, and Florence, did err, in disallowing the determination of these Councils. Thus it is manifest that the Romish church, which they them selves confess, to be represented in a general Council, may err, which hath so often erred. And if it may err, and be deceived it self, what man is he, that need to doubt: Whether it may induce any error among the people.

IF the church had not approved many unprofitable and hurtefull usages, among the people in S. Augustine's time, what need had he to complain, that many of God his cōmaundemēts, were little regarded, & man's presumptions so highely esteemed, Sed hoc nimis doleo &c. But herewithal I am to much grieved, that many things which in God his book are most holsomly commanded are less regarded, and all things are so full of so many presumptions, that he is more greuousely reproved, which in his vtas hath touched the earth, with his bare foot, that he that hath buried his mind in drunkenness. Therefore if it be an unprofitable and hurtefull usage, to prefer man's traditions before God his commandments, the Church in S. Augustine's time approved an unprofitable and hurtefull usage. Furthermore, if the Church cannot approve an unprofitable or hurtefull usage, wherefore are so many ceremonies, as were approved in S. Augustine's and S. Ambroses times, abrogated and disanulled, either because they were unprofitable, or else hurtful. Last of all, what superstitious usages, doth the church of Rome still approve? even such as the wiser sort of Papists are ashamed of.

THe true Church of Christ, in such places as she is, suffereth no man damnably abusing her Religion, without open • eprehension, as in the days of Waldo, Wycliffe, Hus, &c. whereof sufficient mention is made before, but because she is not in all places at all times, many men, yea whole nations, may damnably err, and not be reprehended of her, As all the Mahometistes, which occupy the greatest part of the world, who doth, or hath always openly reprehended them. And the Romish Church, can well enough abide, y ^e true Religion of Christ, to be damnably abused, not only without reprehension, but also with allowing: For when the Friars, Dominicanes, & Franciscans, had forged a new Gospel, out of the doctrine of Ioa • himus, and the visions of Cyril, which they called the Gospel of the holy Ghost, the Gospel that should endure hereafter, the everlasting Gospel: which diuilish gospel they affirmed to be so much more perfect, then the Gospel of Christ: as the Sun is more perfect then the Moon, & a kernel of a nut, before the shell: yet did not the Church of Rome, once reprehend it. So that it was cultiued 55, years, and at length set forth to be openly expounded in the University of Paris, Anno Dom. 1255. without open reprehension of any, but such as were counted heretics for their labor, As Gulielmus de S. Amore, Gerardus Sagurellus, &c. And finally, when the matter was brought before the Pope, Anno Dom. 1256. by Gulielmus de S. Amore, and other sent from the University of Paris, the Pope and the Cardinals, took o • der that it should be privily burned, and not openly reprehended, for shaming their orders. Mathaeus Paris. Whereby it is clearly proved, that the Romish Church hath suffered wicked men, damnably to abuse Religion, without open or privy reprehension for the space of 55. years, and at length without open reprehension, when there was no remedy but it must needs be reprehended, wherefore if there be any grace in you, you will recant.

The 28. article containeth 3. demands.

IF you ask of true Faith, repentance, discipline, &c. these might be signs of the true Church, but if you mean unity in any faith, &c, as it seemeth by your words, the Mahometistes and Turks, are the true Church, for they have unity in their faith, austerity of life, sharp discipline, fasting, alms, devotion, obedience, gravity, Constance, &c. as much, or rather more then the popish church.

YOu have not unity in true faith: for you know not what it meaneth, but are utter enemies unto it, and in your own principles, there is no unity, whether the Pope or the Council be superior, &c. you may, as all hypocrites, pretend austerity of life, when you are most luxurious rioters, as the world knoweth: your discipline is not so sharp, but money will make it blunt: you have great penance but no true repentance, you have much abstinence from meats, which is the doctrine of diuills, but you fast as little as other men: your alms are large but without faith, and therefore sin: your devotion is blind, and not godly, but like her mother Ignorance: you are disobedient to Christian Magistrates, submitting yourselves to Antichrist: your gravity and constancy in all cases, is better commended of yourself, then known of other men: Wherefore being void even of these, which you make the signs of the true Church, you are none of the true Church, except you recant.

WE acknowledge that in the outward face of our church, be many hypocrites, chargeable with these crimes that you speak of, and we yield our selves guilty before God of grievous offenses, that our life is not aunswerable unto our doctrine: Nevertheless we doubt not, but God for Christ his sake, will have mercy upon us. But if in life and conversation we be compared with you Papists, even the chiefest of your church, as Popes, Cardinals, Bishops, Monks, &c. We dare approve our life to be honester both before God and men. You shall never be able to charge us with such riot, whoredom, adultery, incest, sodomitry, bestiality, murder, poisoning, necromancie, apostasy, blasphemy, &c. as both the world seeth to ouerflowe in your Prelates at this day, and we are able to bring forth of your own Cronicles and Hystories, to have ben committed in times past: wherefore, for very shame, leave of this comparison. We meinteine no stews, neither of males nor females, we set forth no books in commendation of Sodomitry, we exact no tribute of Cour • isans, to keep open bawdrie, we privilege no writings that teache men to committee vylanie, worthy of a thousand deaths. Therefore be not so impudent, to charge us with these crimes above the Papists, but rather forsake that filthy whore, the mother of all fornication, and recant.

The 29. article containeth 8. demands.

WHy might not our Church, when it was most hidden, be as rightly called Catholic, as the Church of the Apostles, when it was so particular, that it was contained in the narrow bonds of Jury: for it is not called Catholic, because it should be everywhere, for that it never was nor shall be: But because that where so ever it be, in partes, it is one body of Christ. The Popish church is not in every parte of the world: For Muhammad's sect is in the greatest parte. Many cuntries are Idolaters and the most parte of them that profess the name of Christ, are not in the fellowship of the Popish church: And whereas you say: that no man alive could name the place where it was, you make an impudent lie: For although it were unknown, to the Papists, and enemies thereof, yet was it known to the true members thereof. It was in Italy, whē Marsilius of Padua, preached: in France, when Waldo preached at Lions, and there about. In England, when Wycliffe taught: in Bohemia, when John Hus, and Ieronyme of Prague did florishe.

IT had the spirit of God to sanctify the true members of it, and it had sacraments to testify the same: Also did not the Bohemians baptize: Were not paupers de Lugduno baptized? &c. But if you count their Baptism no Baptism, why did you not rebaptize in Queen Mary's time, all those that were baptized by our Church in King Edwards time?

NOne of us will grant you, that our Church began first to grow, when it was last brought to light, and knowledge of the world: for it hath continued even since Christ. But if there arose, or were renewed many heresies, with it, that is no new matter, but an old practice of the devil. For as soon as the Church of Christ began to grow up after his ascension, even in the Apostles time, there were many sects and heresies, As the Jews that maintained the law, they that denied the Resurrection among the Corinthians Hymenaeus and Philetus, Simon Magus, Cerinthus, Ebion, Marcion, Basilides, Valentinus, Carpocrates, &c. So that there were many more heresies, at the first preaching of the Gospel, in, and immediately after, the Apostles time, then at the last restoring of the public preaching thereof unto the world in our days: And yet the Apostolic Church was one Church, and so is ours at this day one and the same.

YOu are never able to answer the arguments that are brought to prove that Peter was never Bishoppe at Rome. And then where is all your brags of Apostolic sea, and succession, &c. But be it that Peter was there, except you prove succession of doctrine and faith as well as succession of men, your successiō is not worth a straw. And our Church, which holdeth all the doctrine of the Apostles, and none other but the doctrine of the Apostles, shall be truly called, and found, the Apostolic Church, when your with all her succession of Antichrists whore, whoremongers, heretics, Sodomites, blasphemers, conjurers, &c. shabe Apostaticall, rather than Apostolical.

HOw base, and contemptible soever it be, in the eyes of the wicked despisers of it: yet did it not only require, but also subdue all nations to the obedience of the Faith, so many as were ever subdued, in the days of the first Christian Emperors, and before. And sense, when it was most defaced by the tyranny of Antichrist, it was of such majesty, that it both required and obtained the obedience of the realm of Bohemia, and in process of time, hath obtained the obedience of almost all the nations of Europe. If the church of Rome retain the like majesty, why doth it not now, require the like obedience of all nations, both Christians and Turks. you will say: It requireth, but it cannot obtain. Even so, I answer of our Church, it hath always been worthy to require: but it hath not pleased God, that it should always obtain.

THe four best general Councils were gathered by our Church, and the Emperors, that were defenders of the same, and not by the bishops of Rome. Neither were they Presidentes in them, as it is manifest, that other men were Authors of the Canons, or distinctions: As of the Nicene, Alexander Bishop of Constantinople of the Constantinopolitane. Nectarius bishop of the Ephesine. Cyrillus bishop of Alexandria of the Chalcedonense. Anatolius of Constantinople &c. and in other general Councils where the bishop of Rome was president, I answer as John Patriarch of Antioch did, in the Council of Basil, his presidence was: Honoraria ad beneplacitum Concilij eis data: non authoritatiua, nisi ex concessione aut permissione habente vim concessionis aut ex tolerantia, that is: For honor sake granted to them so long as it should please the Council, and not of authority but either by grant or permission being of the force of a grant or else of sufferance. And I conclude as he doth, the Pope was never President either of honor, or of authority, but by the grant or permission of the Council. And how is the Popish church able to gather general Councils at this day? who will come at her calling? Except a few Spaniards, and a ioly company of buckram bishops of Italy? general Councils of all the world, can never be gathered, but either whē there is a Monarchy, or else (which is not to be looked for) that all the Princes of the world, will consent together.

BEcause this demand hath been answered so often before, I will say the less now. The free course of discipline, in time of persecution may be hindered: As it was in S. Cyprians time, when the members of the Church be dispersed: but the power of discipline, hath always remained, and when occasion served, been executed: As the Bohemians, excommunicated the Adamites, and the civil Magistrates punished them by the sword.

AS many of these names as are proper to the Church by scripture, or Doctors agreeing, with scripture, have been always justly challenged of right to pertain to our Church and Congregation.

I mean these:

Our Church doth rightly challenge, to be the body of Christ, which acknowledgeth Christ to be her only head, Savior, Redeemer, Priest, King, Intercessor. &c. The Popish church cannot challenge this name, because she doth not acknowledge Christ to be these only and wholly.

THe spouse of Christ, heareth the voice of Christ, and is ruled thereby, so doth our Church, therefore she is spouse of Christ. But the Romish church goeth a whoringe after her own inventions, committeth gross idolatry, and will in no wise be ruled only by the voice of Christ, there she is not the spouse of Christ.

HOwe tenderly Christ loveth his Church, the true members thereof, which have received the first fruits of his spirit, do better understand in heart thā can be expressed with words, & howe he abhorreth the whore of Babylon the Romish Synagogue, the Scripture doth plentifully declare.

Our Church, expressing the simplicity of a fayer dove, may justly challenge this name: But the Babylonicall Strompet your church, in craft and subtilitie, is more like a fox than a dove.

THe true Church, in which we are, is the house or family of God, which he governeth by his stewards, the sincere preachers of his word. The popish church is the Synagogue of Satan, where the preaching of God his word is despised, and the word it self, made subject to men's determinations and authorities.

SAinct Paul by this title doth admonish Pastors, and Preachers, how great a burden and charge they sustain, that the truth of the Gospel cannot be continued in the world, but by their ministry in y ^e church of God, which is the pillar and stay of truth, this their duty true preachers considering, are diligent in their calling to set forth the Gospel and to preach the truth. But the popish church, which is not the upholder, and mainteyner, but the ouerthrower & oppressor of the truth, compelling it to give place to falsehood and error, can by no equity challenge this name, to be called the pillar and stay of truth, but rather of falsehood and lies.

Our Church is the city of God, built upon the foundations of the Patriarchs, Prophets, and Apostles, Jesus Christ being the head corner stone: ruled by the laws of God only, retaining that form of regiment and common wealth, that Christ him self hath prescribed. The Church of Antichrist, is founded upon seven hills, Apoc. 17. upon the traditions, dreams, phantasies, and devises of men, refuseth to be ruled only by the laws of God, hath clean altered and changed the form of regiment prescribed by God, & set up another, full of Antichristian pride, cruelty, and tyranny. Therefore in no wise may be called the city of God, But Babylon the mother of fornication, Sodoma and Egypt, where our Lord is daily crucified in his members.

THis saying of our Savior Christ in the 5. of Matthew, is not properly meant of the Church, but of the Apostles & their successors the ministers of y ^e Church, even as these sayings: You are the salt of the earth, you are the light of the world, A city built upon an hill cannot be hidden, neither is a candle lighted to be set under a bushel. By which words, he teacheth them above all other men, to look diligently to their life and conversation: for as they excel in place and dignity, so the eyes of all men are set upon them. As a city built upon an hill, must needs be seen of all them that come near it, so they being placed in so high an office and dignity shall be noted and marked above all other men. As a candle is not lighted but to be set on a candlestick & to give light unto all them that come into the house, even so a Minister and Preacher of God his word is not ordained for any other ende but that he should shine before men in true doctrine and good manners. Hereby it appeareth how fondly some Papists would seem to prove out of this place that the Church must always be visible, when the words are not applied to the Church, but to the ministers thereof, I know some of the doctors expound this place otherwise, but the context of the words doth plainly confute their error.

AS a gardē or orchard walled in or enclosed with hedges, is more esteemed of the owner, thē great broad fields, and the trees and flowers that grow therein are preserved and kept more safely, then such as are wild and grow abroad, right so the Church of Christ severed from the rest of y ^e world, though it be small in compass, yet is it more esteemed of him then all the world beside. But the Church of Rome, which will not be enclosed with the walls or hedges of God his word, but wandreth at large after her own inventions, cannot be called the enclosed garden of Christ.

THe true Church of Christ is also compared to a spring or founteine, which is shut in or sealed up from the profane waters of worldly vanities, ministering the water of life to all the children of God. But as for the popish church, which ishueth out of the bottomless lake, is a stinking puddle of all false doctrine and heresy, whereof the whore beareth a cup full. Apoc. 17. out of which all nations have dronk, Apoc. 18. So far is it, that she should be a well, sealed up by Christ.

THe description of the Spouse of the Lamb, set forth in S. John's Revelation, doth in all pointes most aptly agree unto our holy Church and congregation. But the popish church, which is not content to be clothed in that white shining silk, which is the Iustificatiō of Saints made white in the blood of the Lamb, but with the filthy rags of man's righteousness, Isaiah 64. is no Spouse of Christ, but the darling of the devil.

NO place in all the scripture doth more plainly set forth the estate of our Church than this 12. of the Apocalypse. She is clothed with the sun of righteousness Jesus Christ, which is her beauty. She treadeth under her feet, the Moon of mutability, changeableness, and inconstancy, she is crowned with 12. stars, which is the doctrine of the 12. Apostles, the word of God. She is always fruitful, and persecuted by the devil and his members, but yet by Christ defended, protected, and provided for in all dangers and adversities. But the church of Rome, is that whore of Babylon clothed in purple and scarlet, gold, precious stones, and perles, described Apoc. 17. sitting upon the beast with seven heads, which are the seven hills, and is the great city that had dominion over the kings of the earth.

ALthough this saying be not proper nor peculiar unto the Church only, but common to every society and fellowship of men that continue in godly unity, yet doth it most aptly agree unto our Church, which holdeth one unity of doctrine, faith, and religion of Christ. But the Popish church how so ever it brag of unity, because their agreement is not in verity, cannot be that cohabitation of brethren, which the Psalmist doth so highely commend.

THe hill which David so extolleth Psal. 68. is the mount Zyon, which though it be small, yet it excelleth the high and fruitful hill of Basan, because God had chosen it to place his tabernacle thereupon: even so the church of Christ, though it surmount not over kingdoms in worldly dignities and commodities, yet to such as David was, the little hill of Zyon is more worth, than all the seven hills of Rome.

IN all the Scripture the Church is not compared to an holy Anchore, but in the sixth to the Hebrews Faith in God his promises, is compared unto a sure & steadfast Anchore of our souls, upon which Faith seeing our Church is built we may truly say that in our Church only is this sure anchore, which the popish church doth so much despise that she counted it heresy for us to fly unto Faith, tanquam ad sacram anchoram, that is: As to our only sure refuge.

THe Vineyard of the Lord is of his own plantinge, dressed & tilled by such husbandmen, as he hath placed in it, which will yield him fruit in time convenient. This agreeth aptly unto our Church, which alloweth no plant, but such as is planted by our heavenly Father. This Vineyarde cā not the popish church be compted, which plucketh up the vines planted by God, and in the steed of them setteth thorns and thistles after the devises of men.

THe land of the living in scripture signifieth this present life, as: I trusted to see the goodness of the Lord in the lande of the living. that is: Although I was near death, yet I believed that God would preserve me in this life Psal. 27. And unto Doeg, he saith: Psal. 52. God shall destroy thy root out of the lande of the living. that is: Out of this life. Also Hezekiah, in his psalm. Isaiah. 38. I shall not see the Lord, even the Lord in the lande of the living. that is: I shall no more praise God in his temple here in this life. And when you shall bring forth a place of scripture where it is proprely applied unto the church, it shall be an easy matter to prove that we only are the lively members of Christ, which abide in his body receuing all benefits of life from him which is our head: And easy it will be to prove that you are the lande of the dead men, which are strangers from the life of God Ephes. 4. which are alive in this world and not dead unto Christ.

ALthough this saying alleged out of the 45. Psalm, be figuratively meant of the church, as it is literaly spoken of Pharaoh's daughter whom Solomon married: yet being alleged not after the truth of the Hebrew but after the error of the old translation, I will not interpret it contrary to my conscience (as S. Ieronym • ayeth) according to that corrupt version but according to the truth of the text, which is: The Queen in a garment of gold of Ophir, As for compassing with varieties, it is not in the text. By this figure the spiritual magnificence of the church of Christ gathered of the Gentiles is set forth unto us, and therefore let not the Papists dream that material gold is the ornament of Christ his spouse, but as it is before said, of the whore of Babylon.

DAuid in the 35. Psalm promiseth that he will give thanks unto God after his deliverance, in a great company and solemn assembly of people, such as was wont to come together at the holy meetings in the Sanctuary. This is the true and the simple meaning of this text. And it were to violent an interpretation to enforce it to be a prophesy of the church of Christ, although it be true that the church is a great congregation and a mighty people, yet remembering therewith that in comparizon of all the world it is as Christ him self calleth it: A little Flock.

IN the Arch of Noah, as S. Peter testifieth 1. Pet. 3. but a few, namely 8. souls were saved in the water, even as many as were obedient unto the voice of God, the whole world beside were drowned. Wherefore how few soever we be: As the Papists say we are not many, so long as we obey the voice of God, we doubt not but we shall be saved in the Arch. And the Papists with all their universality and multitude, despising the law of God, shall perish with the wicked world.

THe old Tabernaecle was a figure of the true Church, and we know that none shall dwell therein but such as be described in the Psal. 15. Therefore let the Papists brag as long as they list of the Tabernacle of the highest, yet shall they not dwell there, neither shall they rest in his holy hill, because they be not endued with such virtues, springing of true, and a lively faith: As in that Psalm be set forth.

THe church is the feelde and flower of God, in his feelde he soweth none but good seed, & the chaff shall be purged from his flower. The Papists are some of these tares, whom the envious man hath sowed while men were a sleep, and the chaff, which after it be purged from the corn together with the tares shall be burned in the unquenchable fire.

IErusalem that is from above is free, which is the mother of us all, which embrace Jesus Christ as our only Redemer from the bondage and curse of the law. As for that step mother of Rome which bringeth men into captivity through ceremonies and traditions of men: Begetteth unto bondage as Agar did, and is become the mother, not of the faithful, but of abhominable fornication Apocalip. 17.

THe church of Christ is the Nurse of Christians, which bringeth them up and feedeth them first with milk, and afterward with stronger meats according as they are able to receue it 1. Cor. 3. Heb. 6. But Rome, which feedeth her babes with poison of man's traditions in steed of the milk of God his word, & will rather see them famish than they should taste of God his word, may well be a nurse of Antichristians, but never did good unto Christians.

TRue opinions are confirmed out of the word of truth, wherefore our church which holdeth no doctrine, but such as is tried by the word of truth most truly may be called the true believing church. Contrarywise, the Popish church which so manifestly dissenteth from the word of truth that she dare not be judged thereby, but most blasphemously submitteth the same to her corrupt and false judgment, may justly be called a false believing church.

THis hath been often proved before: And namely in the first, second, third, and fourth demands of this last Article.

AS S. Augustine saith: The church of Christ is taken out of his side: as Eve was out of Adams side, which so long as she obeyeth the voice of her • usbande, is not deceived by the serpent: But if she be absent from him, that she be not instructed by him, she is deceived by heretics Augusti. De Genes. contra Manichaeos libro. 2. cap. 24. & 26. by which place of Augustine it is proved that the Church may err, if she be not ruled by the word of God.

THe church may be called the house of Peace, because there is in it Peace and agreement in the chiefest Articles of the Faith, or because in it is taught us the Peace and reconciliation wrought by Christ, whereby we knowing that we are justified by faith, have peace with God. Rom. 5. But neither of these Peaces are in the church of Rome: for there is dissention in doctrine and their doctrine dissenteth from the truth: as for the peace of conscience is altogether unknown unto Papists, even as the justification of Faith, by which only it is obtained.

THe house of Refuge or defense may also be applied to the Church, out of which is no salvation: And in whose bosom it becometh every man to rest, which shall look for the refuge and defense of God. But God forbid that any man should seek for refuge or help at your church, which must be overthrown with such violence as a great mylstone that is cast into the Sea, and shall be found no more Apoc. 18.

AS our church is the pillar and stay of truth, so is she also the house of Truth, which knoweth nothing but him that is the Truth it self Jesus Christ and his most holy Scripture: In which this truth is signed and testified. But your Synagogue is the house of lies, where beside men's doctrines and traditions which are nothing but lies, there be also leaden legendes of lies, Promptuaries of lies, Festiuals of lies, and other infinite books of lies.

HOw should not our Church be the society and fellowship of Saints, which is sanctified and purged by the blood of Christ, which hath received the spirit of sanctification, by which we cry: Abba, Father, which is guided and governed by the most sacred and holy word of God. And how can the Popish church be the fellowship of Saints, when she refuseth the sanctification of Christ his one oblation and sacrifice, as sufficient to make them perfect, which scorneth at the spirit of sanctification, which can abide anything, rather than to be directed only by God his holy word: Finally which acknowledgeth no saints, but such as the most unholy Pope, for money doth canonize and make saints.

AS many of these excellent names, as in the word of God, or the doctors agreeing with the word of God, are proper or pertaining to the true Church of Christ, so many have I proved to be proper and pertaining to our most holy and well ordered Congregatiō. And moreover that they can in no wise be rightly applied to that most abhominable, Idolatrous, and disordered Synagogue of Rome, which is utterly departed from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils, being so lively painted forth and even pointed forth by the scripture to be that Antichristian church, whereof the holy Ghost prophesieth, that no man, except he will willfully be blind, can be ignorant thereof, so that if you be not stark blind, and given up into a reprobate sense, when you consider these things you will recant.

IF you had not added this conclusion, we might have conceived some hope, that upon further instruction in such matters as troubled your conscience you would have ben contented to be reformed after God his word, and good counsel. But now you declare that you are so obstinately bent that what so ever be proved against you, you will not receive it as truth but yield unto it perforce. As for me, Although I know there are very many which with more learning and eloquence could have answered your demands, yet being such as they are, I submit myself to the judgment of all them, that be learned and godly minded, whether I have not directly and plainly, without color or fraud of words, & without all digression answered the same, so that I doubt not, but as many as are tractable, and stayed upon these doubts only, may be fully persuaded by these not very long and yet sufficient Answers.

3 W Hether this occasion of your writing were true, or only pretendid, it is all one to our purpose. But where you commend your freinde, for that he learned to believe first, and sought to understand afterward, which you take to be the natural order of a Christian school, if you had shown where you learned that method, his commendation should have been the greater, and your judgment the weightier. For we learn by Saint Paul, a contrary order, namely first to hear the word of God preached and expounded, and then to believe it. Rom. 10. For God by the riches of his grace, hath abounded towards us, in all wisdom and understanding, and hath opened unto us, the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure, so that after we heard the word of truth, the Gospel of our salvation, we have thereby believed, and so are sealed with the holy Spirit of promise, laboring and praying, that those which have received the first grace of knowledge, and understanding, may daily more and more, increase in the same, that they may be full filled with knowledge of God's will, in all wisdom & spiritual understanding. Col. 1. And as for that blind faith, which must be thrust upon men's consciences, to be accepted before they see what ground it hath, we leave it, as meet for sect masters and heretics, and in no wise to be admitted by the Disciples of Christ, who calleth all men to hear him, and understand him. Matt. 15. Mar. 7. But faith (say you) in most matters must direct reason. But I say, reason in all matters must be subject to faith. For the natural man with all his reason, neither doth, nor can perceive the things of the spirit of God, for the eye hath not seen, nor the ear hath heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things that God hath prepared for them that love him, but God hath revealed them to us by his spirit. 1. Corinth. 2. And this is the thing that deceiveth you (Master Allen ) which more like a master of profane arts, then a good student of holy Divinity, can put no difference between carnal reason, and spiritual understanding. For that knowledge and understanding of God's holy mysteries, contained in his word, whereupon our faith is grounded, we have, not by light of natural reason, but by revelation and opening of God's spirit. But omitting this matter, as touched by the way, with two other pages following, as containing nothing material to be answered, I will come to the third leaf and second face, where you promise an orderly proceeding in the matter you take in hand. Which order of yours, if you had not professed yourself to observe, men might have taken your hochpot, to be such as your matter would bring forth, & that the treaty of Purgatory should be like the troublesome state thereof: but when you are not content, to have your method counted to be of the nature of your matter, but you will needs make boast of an orderly proceeding, in so disordered a cause, you must not be offended if your confusion in stead of order, be sometime discovered.

Howbeit the want of order were a small fault, if the matter were pregnant and certain. But what assurance shall other men have of your doctrine? when you yourself affirm, and have learned (as you say out of Irenaeus ) that such doctrine and mysteries, may not be safely had at such a man's hand as you are, but only of holy Priests and Bishops, which with the succession of their office, have received a sure and certain gift of truth according to the pleasure of their father. It is the duty, not only of a good teacher, but even of a good Christian, to say with the Psalmist: I have believed, and therefore I have spoken. If you believe not these matters, why have you uttered them▪ • f you believe them, then be bold to show us your grounds, out of the word of God. For other persuasion, then • uch as is grounded upon the hearing of God's word will never of Christians, be counted for true belief, so long as the 10. chapter to the Romans remaineth in the Canon of the Bible. But I know your meaning: you affect the praise of humility and modesty. For wavering and uncertainty in faith among Papists is counted mod • sty, but this modesty is soon forgotten, and this boldness now utterly refused, in the next leaf • ollowing, is not only resumed by yourself, but also enjoined to others. Be bold (& blush not you might say, though you should for shame) to charge any of our aduersa •• es, &c. A sudden change he that even now, neither can nor must be bold, although he h • d many more gifts then he hath, and studied much longer then he hath done, to expound the holy Scripture, without danger to him self, and his hearers, because he hath not the certain gift of truth, with ordinary succession: by and by is grown to such a full persuasion of truth, expressly proved by argument and autho • itie, that men must be bold upon his warrant, to charge all his adversaries, either to be held thereby, or else with no honesty to escape his hands. A man would marvel, to behold this speedy alteration, if he did not understand the true difference, between the certain faith of a Christian, and the obstinate blindness of an heretic. For when he compareth his opinion with the authority of God's word where upon true faith is built, he will not, he cannot, he must not be bold, to understand the scriptures, he wanteth that certain gift of truth: but when he remembereth that he cannot deceive others, nor retain the glory of constancy him self, by doubtfulness and uncertainty: then he • aunteth & braggeth, of the force of his feeble arguments, and insufficient au • horitie. But concerning the place of Irenaeus, by him alleged, I must admonish the reader, that his meaning was not, that everyone that succedeth in a Bishops seat, hath as necessarily annexed to his see, that certain gift of verity, whereby, he may expound the Scripture without error, as (master Allen perhaps would insinuate) But that some in the first age of the Church, as they succeeded the holy Bishops and elders that were ordained by the Apostles, in place and office, so also it pleased God their father, that they should succeed in the like gifts and namely in that excellent gift of interpretation of the Scriptures, which was but extraordinary, and for a season. For if it had been an ordinary thing, that every Bishop by succession, should receive that gift, there should never have been any heretic Bishops, as there have been many: and again, that prerogative, which Master Allen him self will affirm, to be peculiar to the Bishop of Rome, should be made common to every other blind Bishop, where so e • er he sat, which were a great absurdity in popery it self. And as for the gift of the interpretation of scriptures, God g • ueth it still though not in such full measure, nor commonly without ordinary means allowed in the Scripture, as reading, comparing, praying, never the less, with as full persuasion in matters concerning God's honor & our salvation by his holy Spirit, as ever he did bestow the same in any age. And as for the helps of learning requisite for the same, as knowledge of the tongues and rational sciences, there was never greater sto • e in the church of Christ, son Christ his time: ye if we shall judge by the writings and stories of all ages (unless we will be as impudent as master Allen) we must say, there was never so great store of learning in any age, as (God's holy name be praised) there is now in these our days, in men professing Christian religion: with what conscience can master Allen affirm? that there was never less store of learning then in this age, when even in remembrance of men that are alive, there was a great deal less store then is now, but in their fathers and grandfathers time, there was almost nothing but rudeness and barbarousness, even with the same conscience, that soon after he affirmeth that pleasure is ever joined to the Protestants doctrine, which more prevaileth then the preachers persuasion. If you had meant Master Allen that peace of God which passeth all understanding, which they taste of, that by the Protestants doctrine have learned that they are justified by faith. Phil. 4. Rom. 5. and to that perpetual joy in the holy Ghost, whereunto we are exhorted by the Apostle. Phil. 4. wherein the kingdom of God consisteth. Rom. 14. we willingly would have consented, that such pleasure is always joined to the Protestants doctrine: but seeing it is more like, you speak of carnal pleasures, I must say thus much to confound your blasphemous tongue, and to dashe out your slanderous writing: let the world witness that heareth our doctrine, and God judge that seeth our hearts, whether carnal pleasures be joined to our teaching, which daily preach with all vehemency and earnestness, unfeigned repentance, mortification, denial of our selves, bearing of the cross, hatred of this world, amendment of life, holiness and righteousness, and that under pain of everlasting damnation. And whether pleasure more then the godly persuasion of the preachers, prevaileth to win professors of our doctrine, if it be not so clearly seen in this Church of England, by the means of the great peace and tranquility, we have through God's singular goodness, under the happy government of our Sovereign Lady enjoyed these many years: look to those Churches of God in France, and the low countries of Germany, which within these twenty years have been for the most part planted, grown up, & flourished altogether under the heavy cross and most sharp persecution, what carnal pleasure hath allured them? what worldly voluptuousness hath and doth still entice them, in so great multitudes to embrace this doctrine? whereof if they taste never so small, they see present danger of death or loss of all their goods with banishment. Surely, this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvelous in our eyes. But to conclude: this man, if he cannot have love and praise for his valiant enterprise, yet by patient bearing of hatred and reproach, he maketh full account of satisfaction for his sins. O miserable conscience of the Papists, which have no peace with god through faith in his infinite mercy, but seek to satisfy the streightnes of his eternal justice, by such beggarly shifts as these, which also he is so uncertain whether they will serve his turn, that he feareth lest he lose all his labor, if he happen to lose the straight line of the Churches truth, which in these dark days, a man may quickly lose. What say you M. Allen ? is it so hard a matter to keep the straight line of the Churches truth in these dark days? Why? Where is the city built upon an hill that cannot be hidden? Where is that visible and known Church which cannot err? If that which was wont to be the only rule of truth among Papists fail you, try another rule of the Protestants, and as Augustine exhorteth you, search the word of God in the holy Scriptures, and then undoubtedly you shall find the truth and the Church also, that is the pillar of truth, though the days be never so dark, or your eyes never so dymme: if with like humility you would submit yourself to the judgment thereof, as you pretend to do to the ministers and pastors of your faith and religion. The Lord if it be his will, open your eyes, that you may see the truth, and give you grace when you see it, that you strive not against it, to your own destruction.

TO THE PREFACE.

1 I F you had not promised and professed an orderly proceeding in this cause, we would never have inquired, whether good order would require, that an heretic should have been first defined, before he were divided. And especially in this controversy, where either party chargeth other with heresy, it had been convenient, that the right definition or description of an heretic had been first set down, that men might thereby have learned who is justly to be burdened with that crime. For an heretic is he, that in the Church, obstinately maintaineth an opinion, that is contrary to the doctrine of God, contained in the holy Scriptures, which if any of us can be proved to do, then let us not be spared, but condemned for heretics. But if just proof thereof cannot be brought against us, but contrariwise we be able to show manifest evidence, that our adversaries doctrine is clean contrary to the Scriptures of God, then let the name of heretics be applied to them, to whom the definition doth agree, with further punishment due to calumniators, that slander other men in that whereof they are guilty them selves. Now to the matter of this Preface, which as the argument declareth, consisteth of three partes, whereof the first is, that there be two sorts of heretics, y ^e one pretending virtue, the other openlie professing vice. This part is shown in three leaves following. In y ^e substance of which point I will no • differ with you, yet something will I note in your handling thereof, as occasion moveth me. First you affirm that heresy and all willful blindness is undoubtedly a just plague of God for sin, I mislike not your affirmation, but I marvel how you can affirm this, and be a good Catholic: when we cannot say half so much, but we are charged by you, to make God y ^e author of sin. But such is the force of truth, that oftentimes the enemies thereof them selves, when they speak without contention cannot auoyed a true confession. God therefore, as this Papist cannot now deny, punisheth sin with sin, not as an evil author, but as a righteous judge. Proceding further you say that Christ hath given all heretics this mark, that there unseemly works should ever detect their feigned faith: wherein, you speak not only contrary to the truth, but even to your own affirmation before. For our Savior Christ hath appointed false prophets to be known by their fruits, which is there false doctrine contrary to God's word, cloaked with the sheep skins of feigned holiness and virtue, which though it be many times discovered, yet is it many times so closely conveyed, that it clearly escapeth the judgment of all men. Who was ever hable to chardge that damnable heretic Pelagius with any notorious crime or wicked behavior in his outward life and conversation? you yourself confess, that there appeared in him nothing, but gravity, constancy, and humility. If his doctrine had not been found contrary to the word of God, he should never have been tried to be a faulse prophet by his works. Such are many of his scholars the free will men of our time, whose opinion, if it were not manifestly repugnant to the authority of the holy Scriptures, there manners are unreprovable in the judgment of mortal men. The like may be said of Jovinian (who if he were so great an heretic, as you make him) yet he himself as you show after out of Augustine, offended not in that, which he persuaded others to do. Your last example of heretics openly professing vice, is of Mahomet, by whose licentious doctrine, you affirm that your faith & Christ's Church, were brought to a small room & very great straits. If this be true tha • you affirm, that the Catholic Church must be otherwise esteemed, and by other notes then you are wont to describe it: or else, your Church by your own assertion cannot be counted Catholic. For if Christ's Church be brought to a small room and great straits, where is universality, Consent of all nations, multitude of people, &c. that you are wont to talk of? But by your discipline the school of lust hath been reasonably, till our days, kept under, & the gravity of Christian manners as the time served, orderly upholden. You do well to qualify your asseveration with those terms, reasonably, orderly, and as the time served. For otherwise the whole Christian world should be witness against you, and yet to show, with what reason, order, or opportunity, the school of lust hath been shut up before our time, or yet is. Wher your doctrine most prevaileth, let the filthy stews and brothel houses, opened in every city, yea and at your mother city of Rome, most licentiously of all other, not only by your governors permitted, but also by your doctors defended, let them I say, bear sufficient witness against you.

2 You have undertaken to prove that our time is troubled with heretics openly professing vice, by whom if you would mean the Anabaptists and Libertines of our time, we would not strive with you: but seeing you are not ashamed to accuse thereof the true worshippers of God & professors of his Gospel, I must plainly tell you, that you are a blasphemer of God & a sclaunderer of his Saints. But let us consider your profess, and so we shall best bewray your blaspheming. First you will men to look back to y ^e Christian Epicures, whom before you named, from which mumber you except the wicked Mahomet, as though he also were a Christian Epicure, & we (say you) our doctrine, attempts & the whole race of our proceedings compared with them, shall not only match them in all points, but pass them in most. If your meaning were as your words sound, I would easily agree with you, when you name yourself and your fellow Papists. But because I know, whatsoever you speak here of yourselves, you understand of us that are your adversaries, I must prove that which you said to be true, & that which you meaned to be false. For to leave your general tayling, not meet to be answered: I will come to your particular crimes which are sacrilege, incest, apostasy feasting and chambering. Then who are gilty of sacrilege? but they that rob God of his honor, and give it to stocks and stones? who are rather to be charged with incest then they which beside their abominable filthy life, allowed dispensation for such persons to marry, as the law of God and nature abhorreth? and where is apostasy to be found, if it be not in them which are clean departed from the faith of Christ, attending to spirits of error and doctrines of devils, forbidding to marry and commanding to abstain from meats which God hath created to be received with thanks giving. 1. Tim. 4. and as for feasting, where is it more gluttonous, then among the greatest professors of fasting? Even their Carthusian fasts, and their good friday fasts, among the wealthy of that sect, compared with the sobre diet of Christians, is voluptuous banqueting. And concerning chambering, if the world were not to to full of examples of their filthy lechery, which profess wiuelesse chastity: yea if their brutish lust were not broken out of the secrete chambers into the open stews, I would spend more time to prove it. Then let all men indifferently judge who hath not matched, but also overpassed the Epicurean heretics of the former ages. There is yet another crime contained in his former exception, and that is, that we follow Mahomet, in allowing often diuorses and marriages in men's wives life. We allow no diuorses, but such as Christ alloweth for adultery, and we wish that adulterers were punished as God commanded in his law, and then the other question of marriages were soon answered. But howsoever the adulteress liveth after diuorsment, she is no more the wife of him from whom she was diuorsed. But far many more causes of diuorsement doth the Popes canon law devise, and if marriage after diuorsement be unlawful, why is it dispensed with all by the Pope? But to return to our former accusations, which are so eagerly followed, that before any one piece of proof is brought against us, they are said to be so manifest, that we have not so much as any reasonable excuse to hide them, but only to term vice by the name of virtue. And then we must be examined by what right we change the names of things that cannot alter their natures. Stay a while your examination M. Allen, this is no orderly proceeding. Good order would require, that you should first prove us gilty of the crimes, and then to take away our excuses. Howebeit, I blame you not if you leave of the proof of those things, which would sooner reprove yourselves, then convict your adversaries. And yet that you may see howe clear a conscience we have in these crimes objected, I will not refuse to answer your interrogatories, although by no lawful and orderly proceeding I can be compelled thereto. In primis, who authorised you to call that extirpation of superstition, which our fathers called sacrilege. To this I answer, I care not what your fathers called or counted sacrilege. But God our heavenly father commanded us to break, burn and destroy, all your idols, and to deface all the monuments of them. Deut. 12. And all the godly Patriarchs and fathers, both before Christ's coming and since, have given us example of obedience unto this commandment, and the observation thereof they have termed the extirpation of superstition and idolatry. Or that blind devotion which our holy Elders named true religion ? we learned of our Savior Christ and his Apostles to condemn that for blind devotion which is not grounded upon certain knowledge of God's word, you worship you know not what, saith Christ to the Samaritan. John. 4. S. Paul chargeth the obstinate Jews, with zeal without knowledge. Rom. 10. How can they for sin and shame honor that with the name of holy marriage that S. Ambrose termeth aduoultry, S. Augustine worse then aduoultery, and they with all the residue of doctors horrible incest. The holy Ghost hath taught us to call marriage honorable in all men, and the bed undefiled, whatsoever any man hath said to the contrary. And yet diverse godly men of the ancient fathers, as Hieronym and Epiphanius allow marriage in them that cannot contain, although they have vowed virginity, even as the spirit of God also hath spoken by S. Paul. Because it is better to marry then to burn. Epipha. lib. 2. Haere. 61. Hieron. Epi. ad Demetriaden. And now that I have answered your questions: I must be bold to demand the same of you, what authority you have to change the names of things when you cannot alter their nature? Who taught you to call that religion, which holy Scripture calleth Idolatry, or that true devotion, which God calleth vain worshipping, where learned you to call a gluttonous feast of fish, a religious fasting? or a sumptuous banket of wine, spices, fruits and deintie conseites, a straight and holy abstinence? with what face or conscience can you call that overflowing lust of your popish unmarried Clergy, a pure and undefiled chastity? Finally, where learned you but of the Devil him self to command abstinence from meats and marriage, for religions sake? to some men at all times, and to all men at sometimes? If for these and an hundred such, you can show no better warrant, then the terms of your fathers, the practice of your elders, or the authority of mortal men, the curse of God pronounced by Isaiah, against them that call evil good, or good evil, must needs be turned over unto you. But to go on with this orderly proceeding, whereby we are first accused and then by and by condemned, without ever being convicted, or once put to the trial. Next of all, lest men should marvel howe so manifest impiety could so mightily prevail, they are told that it is only present pleasure, and similitude of manners that joineth so many unto us. And for proof hereof, men must call to remembrance the first entrance of this misery how these preachers have had certain persons in admiration for their own advantage. We refuse not the trial, but let men on God's name call to remembrance howe our doctrine began to be restored in these last days. I pray you what private advantage could they by any likelihood be supposed to seek, which incurred manifest danger of their lives by the least suspicion of their profession? or what persons could they have in admiration, when all Princes & great personages were their greatest persecutors? but they wan them by flattery, and sewed them cushians under their elbows, and laid pillows under their heads. This is in deed a sore accusation, but where is the proof? Forsoth to such as made no store of good works, they cast only faith under their elbowe to lean upon. O impudent blasphemer, which of us ever taught that such a faith as is not lively, & fruitful of good works, did ever profit any man but to the increase of his damnation? To such as were burdened with promise of chastity, they made a cushen for their ease. To such as had rashly vowed that which they could not possibly perform, not we but S. Paul saith, if they cannot contain let them marry, for it is better to marry then to burn. S. Ieronym otherwise an immeasurable aduancer of virginity, & dispraiser of marriage Ep. ad Dem. speaketh of virgins, that professed chastity and lived vnpurely, &c. aperte dicendum est, vt aut nubant si se non possunt continere, aut contineant si nolunt nubere. It must be plainly said unto them, that either they should marry if they cannot contain, or else contain if they will not marry. Epiphanius lib. 2. haer. 61. calleth marriage for such men not a cushen for their ease, but an wholesome medicine against their disease and the wound of burning, and that saith he, was the doctrine of the Church in his time. To such as cast an eye upon Church goods, they borrowed a pillow of Judas, why was not this sold and given to the poor ? If ever any man heard this text alleged by any preacher for such purpose, let that man be counted such one as M. Allen termeth him, if no man were heard ever to speak after that manner, let M. Allen be taken for a man of such truth, as he showeth him self to be. But it is a small thing to break the bonds of modesty in a few points, if a man strive not to pass impudency it self in shameless lying. Commit what you list, omit what you list, your preachers shall praise it in their words, and practice it in their works. Sauing that vain glorious affecters of painted eloquence, be sometime so careful of their words, that they forget their matter. I would have thought that the father of lies him self the continual accuser of God's Saints, would have feared forever loss of his credit, to have uttered so unseemly a slander of us. But I suppose that this disciple of his more regarding how finely, then howe truly he inueyeth against his adversaries, had such pleasure in allusion of these terms commit and omit, praise and practice, words and works, that he respected not what sense they made, so they were handsomely matched together. Well, howsoever our works shall be found when they shall be openly judged before him that best doth know them, I am sure they shall not prove worse then the popish clergy, and if they shall be examined by man's judgment, me think they should be very unequal Judges, before whom we should not be able to approve our innocence, in comparison of our adversaries doings. But that in words we praise all manner of sin, whether it be in committing that which God forbiddeth, or in omitting that which God commandeth, If that I say can be proved against us, then let our enemy pursue our soul and take it, yea let him tread our life down to the earth and lay our honor in the dust. But to return to our works, what example is brought out to confirm the same? Not the particular faults of some of our profession, that might bear some color of confirmation lest for the infirmity of everyone of our side he might be requited with the enormities of an hundredth of his own sect, but that he chooseth which is common to most of our preachers, & not to be found in any one of theirs. This no doubt must be some great offense to justify so heinous an accusation. In deed a great mote in the Papists eyes, that is the marriage of our ministers. Blessed be God, that although some singular persons may be accused of notorious crimes, yet our whole state cannot be charged by this instrument of Satan with no greater fault, then the allowance of God's own institution. And yet see howe this rolling rhetorician scoffeth with the school men's term of Annexum ordini. Be like S. Paul taketh marriage to be so annexed to the order of an ecclesiastical minister, that he never describeth the perfect pattern of a Bishop or Deacon, but one of the first pointes is, that he be the husband of one wife. But I pray you M. Allen though you cannot away with the marriage of vowed Priests: are you also angry with the matrimony of our new disordered ministers (as it pleaseth you to call them) which never took your order, nor meddled with any vows? you were wont to account them for mere lay men, and will you not allow the marriage of lay men at least wise to be lawful, if you cannot with the Apostle call it honorable? Is that which the Apostle counteth honorable, of you called licentious life? and which the spirit of God nameth an undefiled bed, dare you term it contemptibly a couch for delicate persons ease? What have you here to cloke your open blasphemy, for your words are not of the abuse, but of the state of marriage it self. You proceed with like modesty to affirm that we have removed all those means that might serve for the abating of sins dominion, and which are they? For soth the Sacrament of penance, fasting, and the opinion of purgatory. To the first we answer that we know no Sacrament of penance instituted by Christ, but the doctrine of repentance defaced by the false and devilish persuasions of auriculer confession, superstitious satisfaction, and popish absolution we have faithfully restored, according as the same is taught in the holy Scriptures of God. And those other we have removed as being not only contrary to the doctrine of God's word, but also as most pernicious pillows and blasphemous boulsters of all sin and security. For what fear or conscience could be of sin intended or committed, where this persuasion took place, that, the fast once rehearsed in the ear of a priest, and a few words by him pronounced after a sory satisfaction of a pelting penance according to the Priests pleasure, was a full and sufficient discharge both before God and the world. And as for the power and authority of pardoning or retaining sins, that our Savior Christ hath committed to his ministers, is not taken away by us, but truly declared to be the judgment of God and not the absolute authority of man. But how blasphemously the Papists challenge unto them selves this authority, let it appear by this that M. Allen calleth it, that power which the son of man hath in earth to forgive sins, by which words our Savior Christ challengeth unto himself, that which is proper unto his divinity, although he were humbled in the shape of a servant upon earth, namely an absolute authority to forgive sins, which none hath in heaven or in earth but only God. And as to the removing of fasting, if that be fasting which they call fasting, namely the eating of fish, it hath not been diminished but increased in our time, and as for true fasting and abstinence in deed, it hath been publicly commanded & observed as occasion was offered, and private fasting with the right use thereof is still commended in our doctrine, & men exhorted unto it. Only the abuses, superstition and devilish doctrine set forth by the papists is removed, if it be little practiced, it is because among many professors there are but few followers of the Gospel. But look upon the persecuted congregations and you shall see often public fasting, the private exercise the Lord knoweth, and hath commanded to be covered rather then opened. Now must we come to y ^e opinion of purgatory, which in deed together with mass of Scala coeli, we have utterly removed and digged up even from the very foundations, howsoever M. Allen gathering together the old rude rubbish, & tempering it with new & fine cement, would labor to build it up again. And even as I said of popish confession and satisfaction, so say I of purgatory, we abhor the opinion thereof, not only as blasphemous against the blood of Christ which purgeth us from all our sins, but also as a very canch of careless security, which Satan hath devised to advance the dominion of sin. For where as the fear of everlasting torments of hell fire is the right terror to bridle iniquity, as that which is due for sins and wickedness, & yet restraineth not the ungodly from their abominable life, what restraint shall there be when the eternal pains are changed into temporal, & the temporal pains may be redeemed by so small a price as popish satisfactions may be bought for? which redemption if it be neglected in men's life, yet it may be performed by their friends after their death. M. Allen saith few of us consider the deep wound that sin maketh in man's soul. But we may justly say to the Papists that they neither consider the depth of the wound, nor the perfection of the medicine. For we consider the wound of sin to be as deep, as the deepest pit in hell, which will not be filled up with the slabbersawce of men's merits and satisfactions, but only with the blood of the only son of god, which is so sovereign a salve for this so desperate a sore, that of them that were the children of wrath and dead in sins, it quickeneth them, raiseth them to life, and placeth them in heaven with Christ. Ephes. 2. And as for that painful penance, that M. Allen complaineth to be so neglected in our time, he chargeth us unjustly with the cause thereof. For within time of man's memory, before the light of the Gospel did shine openly, we saw no such painful penance commonly, but v. ladyes psalters, v. pater nosters, v. pence to v. poor men in remembrance of the v. wounds, v. fry days fast and such like. And as for pilgrimage, it was but a pastime for such as loved to roue about the cuntryes. The hardest penance was to pay so dear for the paltry of Monks merits, and Friars fables, Popes pardons, and such like. Et hinc illae lachrymae. This maketh the bitter complaint, that this marchaundise will no more be bought, but this is the judgment of God upon the great whore of Babylon.

3 Here (as I take it) in the second face of the 18. leaf, beginneth the 3. matter promised in the argument, namely a brief note of the authors intent, &c. The chief consideration (as I gather) is for that men endeavor not to make amends and recompense, by satisfying for their sins, and therefore for answering some part of God's justice, and perfect purging of the same sinful life past, there remaineth sharp punishment after this life. I will commit to Christ, to be revenged, the horrible injury done to his death and blood shedding, which if it be not a full answering of God's justice, and a perfect purging of all our sinful life, in vain shall we seek it else where. But I will reason with M. Allen in his own principles. What say you Sir? remaineth there some part of God's justice to be answered by suffering? Surely, if the passion of Christ will not serve, that was the immaculate lamb of God, it were strange that the suffering of a sinful man should satisfy the same.

And if suffering of the party that hath sinned be necessarily required, for answering some part of God's justice, howe can the same suffering be mitigated by masses, pardons, merits, &c. or clean taken away by a pardon of Iubely, à poena, & culpa ? Again, howe can the merits of another, abate his punishment, which must suffer him self to answer God's justice? If the justice of God be not answered by the offering of Christ, how is it answered, when any man's suffering is by any of your means mollified or taken away? But it sufficeth you that your forefathers, more then a thousand years ago, called that place of sufferance, purgatory. But I pray you what is it called in the Scripture? either of the old testament or the new, or in the first and second hundredth years after Christ? Diuerse errors be older then a thousand years, but age can never make falsehood to be truth, and therefore I way not your proud brags worth a straw. I am one of the least of God's ministers, and not worthy, in respect of my greatest infirmities, of the lowest place in his Church, yet by his grace and the authority of his holy word, I shall be able to overthrow, both this and all other babylonicall bulwarks, that are cast up by Satan and all his instruments. For the defense of popish heresy, against the t • uth of God. And neither the myst of men's inventions, which you call the light of apostolic tradition, shall be able to darken the truth of the Gospel, nor the errors of mortal men, which you term the force of God's truth, shall bear down thauthoritie of God's holy spirit. And as for the torment of conscience, by inward acknowedlging of the truth openly withstanded, it is not like you could so lively describe it, if you had not experience of it in yourself. Our consciences (most humble and hearty thanks we yield to the infinite mercy of God) are washed white and purged from all blackness, by the precious blood of Christ, which is the propitiation for our sins, that cleave unto him by true & lively faith: and open judgment shall one day show, that all obstinate Papists, which seek to establish their own justice, shall be void of the justice of God, & while they wrestle to come out of purgatory, they take the high way to fall headlong into hell. God lighten the eyes of them that are blind of simplicity, and confound all such as sin of malicious wickedness. The excuse of your sharp speech, perhaps might seem probable, if you did not use intolerable sclaundering and railing, which neither by zeal of truth, nor example of godly fathers, can well be shadowed, much less warranted.

CAP. I.

1 A Lthough the argument of this chapter be but one, yet I thought it good to divide the answer into two partes. The former part containeth his proposition, the latter his confirmation. And first concerning the sufficiency of Christ's redemption, there is nothing can be spoken so magnifically, but that the worthiness thereof passeth and excedeth it. I will therefore agree with you in that you say of the comfort, sufficiency and abundant p •• ce of the death of Christ, and I would you would always agre with yourself in the constant confession of the same truth, I receive also that which you affirm, that the benefit of his death, extendeth also to the members of his mystical body. But in that which you make to be the only mean, whereby the same is conveyed and applied unto us, I cannot but dissent from your judgment. For the mean on God's behalf, by which we are made partakers of the fruits of Christ's passion, and so grafted into his body, is his holy spirit of promise, which is the earnest and assurance of our inheritance, who worketh in us faith, as the only mean by which the righteousness of Christ is applied unto us. Eph. 1. And as for the Sacraments, which you seem to make the only condittes of God's mercy, we are taught in the holy Scriptures, that they are the seals of God's promises given for the confirmation of our faith, as was circumcision to Abraham, when he was justified before through faith, Rom. 4. You will us in the margent, to mark the ground of your cause, which is in deed a good admonition. For seeing the ground of your cause leaneth upon your only affirmation, and is contrary to thautority of God's word, injurious to the spirit of God, and neglecting the faith of Christ, what so ever you build thereupon, must needs be like the foundation. But howe should your free will be maintained? if God's spirit had any place, that distributeth to everyone according to the good pleasure of his own will. 1. Cor. 12. And how should the Sacrament give grace of the work wrought? if faith were requisite in them that receive them. Of like authority it is, which you say, that like effect is not given to all the Sacraments. Surely all the Sacraments of Christ's institution, have like effect in God's elect. But let us hear your difference. By baptism all sin committed before, and the punishment thereof, is clearly forgiven, by the Sacrament of penance, though the sin be forgiven, yet there remaineth a temporal punishment. When the Pope giveth a general pardon à poena & culpa, doth he not it by y ^e sacrament of penance? if he do it by y ^t sacrament, then are temporal pains also remitted thereby. Thus one falsehood overthroweth another. But Christ you say the author of this sacrament, meant not to communicate such efficacy • o this, as to Baptism. Here are two assertions, first of the author, then of the force of this Sacrament, but neither of both able to be proved by the word of God. Nevertheless here is brought in that which is thought to be the pillar, not only of purgatory, but also of all other popish satisfactions: namely the chastisement and correction, that God ministereth to his children, whose sins he hath pardoned, which is not a satisfaction for the sins past, but a warning for the time to come, and is never accounted in scripture, for an answering of God's justice, but a token of his mercy, being not the punishment of a judge, but the chastisement of the father to the amendment of his child that suffereth, and for an admonition of other, that they likewise offend not. Heb: 12. And after this manner, are also those places to be understood, where God is said to punish the offenses of his children. But whereas M. Allen allegeth the saying of Christ unto the Angel of the Church of Ephesus, Apoc. 2. But I have somewhat against thee, &c. to prove that God hath somewhat to say for our offenses pardoned, I marvel whether he were sleeping or waking when he wrote it, for there the pastor and Church is charged, for their offense which is not to be pardoned, except they repent, & if they repent to be clearly remitted. But 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , or, age poenitentiam, with M. Allen, is do penance, & doing of penance, with him soundeth to make satisfaction. He professeth in one place his ignorance in the Greek tongue: but if he would but acknowledge what poenitere in Latin signifieth to be sory, he need not to have occupied him self in alleging that place. But proceeding a little further, he maketh two causes why the debt of temporal punishment remaineth to be discharged by us. One for some satisfaction of God's justice, as though the satisfaction of Christ were imperfect. An other to answer the Church of her right (as S. Augustine saith). In deed the old discipline of the Church, required that open offenders, should not only repent privately before God, but also show open signs of hearty repentance for satisfying the Church, by whom they were to be received as before their repentance they were cast out. And in this sense, satisfaction is often used by the ancient fathers, and not to fulfill the righteousness of God, either by doing or suffering of anything. Seeing therefore that God • justice is thoroughly satisfied by Christ's suffering, there remaineth no satisfaction to be supplied by men. For the afflictions of the faithful, are t • e matter of their patience and conformity with Christ their head, the punishments that are inflicted upon them, are the corrections of mercy, not the satisfactions of justice. There remaineth therefore no temporal punishment for satisfying of God's justice in our life, and much less after our death.

2 Now cometh in the colorable confirmation of this false proposition, and that by examples of the holy Scripture, which must therefore more diligently be weighed, because they are so seldom alleged. But first he must rail a crash at the forsaken Protestants, which would so gladly live at ease in their only faith, that they list neither to satisfy for their sins, nor to procure God's mercy with good works. Doubtless ( M. Allen ) they list not by seeking to justify them selves, procure to be forsaken of God. But you Papists are they, that seek to justify yourselves, like the old pharisees, and boast of your prayers, fastings and satisfactions, but God knoweth what you are within. As for our only faith shall stand before God, when your infidelity shall condemn you, and the fruits of our only faith shall appear to God's glory, when the vain brag of your meritorius works shall be discovered to your eternal shame. But to come to your examples, I must admonish the Reader, that neither your wit, memory, diligence, nor learning, deserveth any commendations, for alleging them that have so often before been abused, by all them that of your side have defended your cause, of whom you are but a translator or borower, not an author or observer yourself. And therefore I might justly refer the Reader to the learned and godly answers of so many, as have impugned this heresy before, but because every man either cannot or will not seek further then this book, I will briefly answer every example, as it is an easy matter to do, they are so unfitly applied to the purpose for which they are alleged. The first example is of our first parent Adam, whose sin though it were pardoned through Christ, yet he and all his posterity feeleth the punishment thereof. An argument very far fetched to maintain the pains of purgatory. The miseries of this life in that they be common to the godly, with the wicked, they sufficiently declare, that they are no satisfaction for sin, but a demonstration of our miserable condition to humble us, & make us desirous of restitution by Christ. And although they were enjoined by the curse of God against sin, yet to those that are delivered from the curse of God by the blessed seed Jesus, they also are converted into blessings. Hereof the godly rejoice in afflictions, knowing that afflictions work patience, patience worketh trial, trial hope, and hope confoundeth not, yea by them we are made conformable unto Christ, that suffering with him we may reign with him. Rom. 5. & 8. As for that which Adam suffered after his death, when you have declared it, then will I also confute it. Next followeth the examples of the Israelites which often fell, were punished and rose again. The former example was not so far of in time, as this is in matter, for that example although it were impertinent, yet it had some similitude with the cause, for that Adam was pardoned, and yet bare some part of punishment. But here are brought in the whole people, among whom many were wicked, and commonly more hypocrites then true Israelites, and yet the very text alleged out of the 88. Psalm, declareth that the godly children which were punished, were chastised in mercy, and not condemned by justice. And as for the saying of God. Exod. 32. that notwithstanding he had pardoned the Israelites, yet he would visit their sin in the day of vengeance, little helpeth the matter. For the pardon was general to the whole people, that he would not destroy them from being a nation, as appeareth in the 14. verse of that chapter, but not particular to everyone, that he would remit their sin & take them into his favor, as appeareth verse 33. where he saith, that who so ever had sinned he would put him out of his book. The same answer serveth for the like text. Num. 14. But Moses & Aaron are examples of this matter most manifest. I answer to the punishment of Moses & Aaron, as to the punishment of all other faithful persons, they were not to satisfy the justice of God, but to declare his mercy in admonishing them, and others by their examples, how odious sin is unto him, and yet even the chastisement of God is a benefit unto his children, not only because it is a sign of his fatherly love toward them, but also because he converteth it always unto their reward and profit. As in the example of Moses and Aaron, it was a fatherly rod to discharge them of guiding God's people, and entering into the lande of promise: but in the mean time it was a great benefit that they were discharged of a heavy and troublesome burden, and entered sooner into that land of eternal life, whereof the other was but a sign and shadow. And therefore the Psalmist saith justly of them, that God was merciful unto them, in revenging their inventions. But because S. Augustine's words may be of more credit with you, he saith of the death of Moses & Aaron, that they were signa futurorum non supplicia indignationis Dei. Signs of things to come not punishments of God's displeasure. Quaestion. Num. lib. 4. Quest. 53. But the example of King David is counted a great and special bulwark of this cause, which notwithstanding is answered even as the rest. David the child of God, was beaten with the merciful rod of God's fatherly correction, and set as an example to God's children of all ages, to show how God abhorreth murder and adultery. And although the pain were bitter for the time, as all chastisement is, yet no doubt but he received great profit thereby. Heb. 12. And as for the plague for numbering the people, it fell upon them for their own sins, as the text is plain. The saying of Gregory, that God leaveth no sin unpunished, which is pardoned: if it be understood that all the sins of the faithful are punished in Christ, which became sin for us, it is most true. But if he mean that God punisheth all sins that he pardoneth in the parties them selves, it is contrary to the manifest word of God, and infinite examples of the Scripture. The Publican, the prodigal child, the debtors, all clearly remitted, do plainly prove that God freely forgiveth, justifieth, rewardeth the penitent sinners, without exacting any punishment of them for answering of the debt, satisfying for the sins, abusing his fatherly clemency. Luke 7. & 15. & 18. Finally for avouching mine answer, I would wish no better authority of the ancient fathers, then even that which M. Allen him self allegeth out of Augustine contra Faustum, lib. 23. cap. 67. that the punishment of David, was flagelli paterni disciplina, the chastisement of God's fatherly scourge, as he doth most plainly declare the same in his book de peccatorum meritis ac remission, lib. 2. cap. 33. and for a flatt conclusion contradictory to M. Allens assertion, I will use the very words of Chrysostom in the 8. Hom. upon the Epistle to the Rom. Vbi venia ibi nulla erit poena. Where there is forgiveness, there is no punishment.

CAP. II.

1 I F M. Allens titles of his chapters were as sufficient reasons, as they be bold affirmations, there were no man able to stand against him. But I can well compare them to the arguments of those vain fables that were wont to be printed in english of Beuis of Hampton, Guy of Warwick, & such like, where the arguments show how such a Knight overcame such a Giant, how such a sorcerer wrought such a miracle, which are told as confidently as though they were true, and yet there is no man of mean wit so ignorant, but he knoweth them to be feigned fantasies. Even so with M. Allen, to affirm is to prove, to deny is to confute, briefly in his titles, and at large in his chapters. But if he would as he pretendeth, have removed all those reasons, that we bring against his false conclusion, or any of them all, he must have proved, that Christ hath not satisfied the justice of God perfectly by his death and suffering, that God doth not freely forgive us our sins, that he is still an angry Judge against them that put their trust in him. He must have proved against Ezekiel, that what time so ever a man doth truly repent, the Lord doth not put all his sins out of his remembrance, against David, that he hath not removed our sins from us as far as the East is from the West. Against S. John, that if any man sin after Baptism, Jesus Christ is not our advocate with the father, and propitiation for our sins. If he could say anything against these reasons & authorities, with an hundred more of the same sort, he were worthy to be heard. But because that is to hard a matter for him to take in hand, without all shame or show of truth most impudently, he fayneth a contrariety between Melanthon and Calvin, but not once noting by one letter where the same is to be found in any of their works, lest their manifest words out of the same places being brought against him, should reprove his shameless lying. Melancthon he saith, acknowledgeth some temporal pain after remission of sins, to be discharged in this life, but not in the life to come. Calvin will have none at all. O brazen face and iron forehead: doth Calvin deny thafflictions of this life? or Melancthon affirm that they are suffered for satisfaction of our sins. Doth Melancthon deny the passion of Christ to be a perfect answering of the justice of God? or Calvin affirm, thereby to be taken away the merciful correction of God? Would God that all that profess the religion of Christ agreed in all pointes as truly, as they do in this. But admit that M. Melancthon or any man beside, should grant, that the sufferings of the godly in this life, are some parte of satisfying unto the justice of God, what were purgatory promoted thereby? Forsoth then of necessity it must be induced, that some parte of these sufferings are aunswerable in the next world to come, what necessity call you this? even such as he suffereth, which being bound hand and foot with a straw, cannot steare to help him self. But let us see this adamantine chain of Master Allens necessity. If any punishment remain, it must needs rise by proportion, weight, continuance, number and quantity, which if it be not all discharged in this life, then it is to be answered in the life to come. By proportion Master Allen? What proportion? Arithmetical or Geometrical? If it be by arithmetical proportion, then so many thousands of sins, whereof everyone deserveth one death, must be punished by so many thousand deaths. If by geometricall proportion, then so many offenses committed against that infinite majesty, cannot be answered, but by infinite and eternal punishment, and which way so ever you take it, by weight, number, time or measure, it is evident, that while you seek for purgatory, you have found out hell. For otherwise saith the spirit of God, in the person of the faithful, He hath not dealt with us according to our sins, neither rewarded us after our iniquities, Psal. 103. But as heaven is above the earth, so great is his mercy, as a father hath compassion on his children, so hath the Lord compassion on them that fear him. This is another manner of proportion M. Allen, then you Papists can skill of, which think such a necessity to be of this conclusion, that if any sins be punished in this life, they must be punished after this life also. For if nothing but justice be sought against sins, then followeth nothing but eternal damnation, if mercy may moderate the matter, what necessity is in this consequence? some sins are sometime punished in this life, ergo in the life to come. Thus I have reasoned, supposing that any man had granted, that the justice of God must be satisfied with our sufferings in this life: for I myself had rather see the Pope at the devil, then I would affirm the sufferings of Christ to be insufficient to answer perfectly the justice of God. But behold Christian reader the blasphemy of these popish serpents, first they will seem in words thoroughly to acknowledge the benefit of Christ's passion, lest that every man y ^t heareth them speak, should spit at them. When they have thus obtained audience, then they will gather in them selves, & begin in some part to diminish the perfection thereof, & so proceed until they have in deed, though not in words clean excluded Christ and all his merits, whereof thou hast a plain example in this hypocrite, who in the beginning of his first chapter, confesseth liberally the effect of Christ's death▪ afterward restraineth the force thereof, to sins committed before baptism, then bringeth in punishment, for answering the justice of God in this life, afterward extendeth the same unto the life to come, & last of all, estemeth the punishment by proportion, weight, continuance, number & quantity of the faults committed: which of necessity thrusteth back again the sins into eternal torments. And what then becometh of the propitiation for our sins purchased unto us by the blood of the son of God?

2 This peace should prove that the fatherly rod of God's mercy, is a sword of his justice to punish those sins that are remitted. But what manner of proves bringeth he. S. Paul (he saith) in plain words writeth, the body is dead because of sin, and death is the reward of sin. In deed S. Paul writeth so, but is the mercy of God turned therefore into justice, or his rod into a sword? or he from a merciful father into an angry judge? to omit howe unfitly he joineth these 2. places together, whose sense is so far differing, for in the former saying: Rom. 8. he speaketh of the relics of sin, that are not altogether abolished in them that are regenerate: in the latter Rom. 6. he showeth that they which serve sin, deserve eternal damnation: what is this to the proof of his conclusion? but his purpose was only to make some show of variety of places: for by and by he returneth to the places alleged, and answered before, of David, and of the people of Israel, whereunto he adjoineth the saying of Augustine, that God leaveth not the sins of them unpunished, whom he hath pardoned. One answer serveth all, if there were ten times as much of this sort. That God punisheth not to satisfy his justice, but to show his mercy toward his children, to bring them to repentance, to humble them, to make them beware of the like sins, to admonish others by their example, but in no wise that they should make a mendes by due punishment, for that which by transgression was committed, which answer howsoever he would seem to eleuate by words, yet he bringeth no matter against it, but even the places by him self alleged in the chapter before, which either all or almost all, do plainly confirm it, as is before noted, and none of them all confute it.

3 He ascribeth more courtesy to the other sort whose opinion is of his own framing, but yet they please him not altogether, because their doctrine giveth license to evil livers. For if a man were sure to be discharged at his death for all pain for his sin, then it were madness to travail further for his offenses in this life, then he must needs. M. Allen speaketh here according to his own affection, & the sense of all Papists, which will take no pains to please God, but only for their profit: they will not bestow one half penny for the love of God, nor suffer a fillippe for the glory of God, but for the satisfaction of their sins, and increase of their merittes. And therefore that which is the chief cause, that doth and ought to move, and the principal ende for which all godly men are moved to seek to please God by good works, namely the love of God, and the glory of God, the Papists think to prevail with no man, because they are void of it them selves. But may not a man now justly enforce, that the opinion of purgatory & satisfactions of sins after this life, is the very doctrine of licentiousness, to maintain wicked men in their presumptuousnes? For what hast will they make to amendment & newness of life, when they have hope of release after their death? The other absurdity riseth of devilish envy, that God should be more liberal to them that repent, at the hour of death, then to them that were but small offenders, converted long before. And therefore ( M. Allen) I will answer you, as the householder answered those murmurers, which grudged that they which wrought but an hour were made equal in reward with those, that had borne the burden & heat of the day. Is thy eye evil, because God is good? is it not lawful for him to do what he will with his own? Matth. 20. But this is that which always deceiveth the papists, because they measure the reward by justice and not by mercy. I think M. Allen is angry with Christ, that he did not send the penitent thief into purgatory, but even that day promised to be with him in paradise. For Origen is alleged to prove, that a just Judge must have consideration of punishment, both for quality and quantity. He never thinketh of Ch • ist all this while, who was stricken for our sins and wounded for our iniquities, in whose punishment God had regard of such quality and quantity as his justice required. Es. 53. For the chastisement of our peace was laid upon him. but we say with the prophet: Lord if thou look straightly to our sins, who were able to abide it, but with thee there is mercy & therefore thou shalt be feared. Psa. 130. But for a stronger proof, there is alleged a place out of Apoc. 18. look howe high Babylon did exalt herself, & how delicatly she lived, give her so much woe & torment again. Now I promise you, I will say M. Allen is a cunning Logitian, if he can draw a good argument out of this place to prove that God punisheth his children to satisfy his justice. The whorish church of Rome is justly condemned to eternal torments, for her pride & voluptuousness, there ore God's children are punished to answer the justice of God. The people of God are commanded to reward Babylon according to her wickedness, and to spare her no more then she s • ared them in her tyranny. What pertaineth this to y ^e afflictions of God's Saints? But because this matter toucheth the point, he will tarry longer with his adversary, & demand why God taketh punishment in this world for sin already remitted. And then he will compel him to answer for satisfying of his justice, which if it be not performed in this life, it must be in the life to come. This is a fine kind of reasoning, M. Allen, that you will enforce your adversary both to answer you, & also to answer what you list, & then you are good enough for him. Is this the logic of Louayne? Nay you have a finer reason then this, punishment & judgment for sin properly appertaineth not to this world, but to the next life. Then would I grossly infer, therefore the temporal pains that the godly suffer in this world, be not properly punishments for sin. But it is of mercy and grace that they suffer in this life, that I grant, but not to satisfy for their sins. Of which matter you do untruly call Saynct Paul to witness. 1. Cor. 11. as whē he is heard to speak him self, it will appear manifestly: If we would judge our selves (saith he) we should not be judged, but when we are judged, we are chastised of the Lord, because we should not be condemned with the world. Here is chastisement to amendment, or obstinacy to condemnation, but never a word sounding toward purgatory, here is a manifest difference, between the judgment which God exerciseth towards his children, which is chastisement to avoid damnation, & that judgment by the which the impenitent world is condemned. But in the next life (you say) there is no place for our working but sufferance alone, &c. what then shall other men's works avail, when our own will not serve? and yet it is a matter not so fully agreed upon among you papists, whether a man may merit in purgatory. But to take your own affirmation and not to charge you with dissention of other men (because you dissent so much from yourself) who so weigheth the ground of your first book, must needs confess that it overturneth your second book, & if the matter of your second book be true, then is the ground of your first book false. For the ground of purgatory you would make the justice of God, which requireth punishment for sins committed in this life: but how can that stand? if God accept y ^e work of other men to release them, that should suffer by his justice: if these works will answer the matter, thē there is no such necessity of purgatory to satisfy his justice. So that one of your books is a pretty confutatiō of the other. As for the saying of Augustine helpeth you nothing at all, only he showeth that God punisheth not all sins in this world, because many are reserved to eternal torments. But howe uncertain his judgment was concerning purgatory in that Enchiridion ad Laurentium, he him self most plainly declareth. Tale aliquid etiam post hanc vitam fieri incredibile non est: & vtrum ita sit quaeri potest. It is not incredible, that such a thing may be after this life, and whether it be so or no it may be doubted, and either it may be found, or else it may be hid, that some faithful should pass through a certain purgatory fire, &c. cap. 69. By which words it appeareth that Satan was but then laying his foundations of purgatory, & had not yet finished this work by a great deal, and that this was not so grave a doctrine, nor so constant a faith of the fathers, as M. Allen boasteth of in the former cap. Fol. 25.

4 This man hath hitherto raked in purgatory, now he will step a foot further into hell, and all to find a case where sins remitted are punished after this life, and then he will return again into purgatory. For this purpose we must consider with him, that Adam and all the just of those days, were punished for their sins forgiven, not only in this life, but many hundredth years after their departure. For whose delivery the Catholic Church (he saith) holdeth & our creed teacheth, that Christ descended into hell. First mark how he agreeth with him self, & after how he cavilleth with the holy Scripture of God. Here he saith that Abraham and all the just were punished in hell, afterward in the next leaf, he saith that all the just in those inferior partes were not in like felicity with our father Abraham, or other of such perfect holiness, and in the next leaf after that, he affirmeth out of Augustine, that Abraham's happy resting place cannot be found in Scripture, to be termed hell. But that the fathers of the old law before Christ, were not in hell, although they were not, nor yet are in perfect blessedness, God providing a better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Heb. 11. It is to be proved with manifest arguments and authorityes out of holy Scriptures. For seeing they all believed in Christ, they had everlasting life, and entered not into condemnation, but passed from death to life. John 5. And to what ende was Christ called the lamb, that was slain from the beginning of the world, but that the benefit of his passion, extendeth unto the godly of all ages alike? Isaiah speaking of the righteous that are departed out of this life, saith that there is peace, and that they shall rest in their beds, Isaiah 57. like as he affirmeth that Tophoth, which is Gehinnom or hell, is prepared of old for the wicked, Es. 30. So that felicity and rest was the portion of the godly fathers of the old time after their death: and hell was prepared but for the wicked and ungodly. The same doth our Savior Christ teach in the history of Lazarus and the rich man. Luke 16. where the soul of Lazarus was carried by Angels not down to hell, but up into Abraham's bosom, from which hell is manifestly divided, when it is said that the rich man being in hell in torments, lifted up his eyes and saw Lazarus a far of: which words do plainly confute, that drowsy dream of the Papists concerning limbus patrum, which they say is but an edge and border of hell. But Christ maketh hell one place, and Abraham's bosom another, and not that only, but the one far from the other, yea a great distance between the one and the other, therefore no edge nor border of hell, but a place of comfort, an high place: for the rich man looketh up, and seeth a far of Lazarus in the bosom of Abraham, who was a true child of Abraham by faith, for faith maketh children unto Abraham. Rom. 4. And even as faith was imputed to Abraham, so is it to all that be his children by faith as well as it was to Abraham, if righteousness belongeth to Abraham's children, the reward of righteousness also pertaineth unto them, therefore Abraham's bosom was open to receive all the children of Abraham, even as the bosom of God was ready to receive Abraham, because he was his son through faith. And now to confute your vain reasons which either be manifest wrestinges of the holy Scripture, or else are built upon the authority of mortal men. First you allege that the place into which Christ descended, was called a lake without water, in which the godly fathers were. Zacharias 9. but this is so evident an abusing of the word of God, that he which doth only read that verse of Zacharias in the original tongue, must needs confess, that those words have another sense, for God there contineweth his speaking to Jerusalem, or the daughter of Zion : saying, he hath delivered her prisoners by the blood of her covenant, from the lake without water, that is from miserable and desperate captivity, where appeared no comfort. For the pronoun thou, is of the feminine gender, wherefore it is most clear that this is not spoken of Christ but of the Church of Christ. As for the common translation, which turneth the feminine gender into the masculine, & the first person into the second with manifest depravation of the sense, is not to be admitted in this case. Now that prison which you bring out of 1. Pet. 3. is the prison of the damned souls, into which S. Peter doth not say that Christ descended, but that he came in the days of Noah by his spirit, and preached to those that were then disobedient, and therefore are their spirits now in perpetual prison and torment. And this is the true and natural sense of S. Peters words, which by means of that predicate error, rather then of any great obscurity in them, hath been diversely wrested by expositors. The words of Irenaeus may be well understood of Christ's coming down from heaven to save mankind, which deserved just condemnation for sin, rather then of his descending into hell, and the name of Adam seemeth to be taken in these words, rather for a noun common then for a proper name. He hath words towards the latter ende of the fifth book that sound more like to this matter, where he saith: Cum enim Dominus in medio vmbrae mortis abierit, vbi animae mortuorum erant, post deinde corporaliter resurrexit, & post resurrectionem assumptus est, manifestum est, quia & discipulorum eius, propte • quos & haec operatus est Dominus, animae abibunt in inuisibilem locum, definitum eis à Deo, & ibi vsque ad resurrectionem commorabuntur. Seeing the Lord went in the midst of the shadow of death, where the souls of the dead were, and afterward arose corporally, and then was taken up: it is manifest, that the souls of his disciples for whom the Lord wrought these things, shall go into an invisible place, appointed for them by God, and there shall tarry until the resurrection. Neuertheles out of these words can nothing be necessarily enforced, but that the soul of Christ, when he was dead, was in the place of the godly that were dead before him, which no man denieth. If you urge that he was in the midst of the shadow of death, I answer, that is a phrase of the Scripture, signifying that he was verily dead, and that death had him in possession, after which manner of speech S. Peter saith, that God raised him again, loosing the sorrows of death, and you yourself count it a blasphemy to say, that he suffered any torments in hell after his death, and Irenaeus him self affirmeth, that it was such a place as all his disciples shall rest in until the time of the general resurrection, which plainly overthroweth your fantasy. Eusebius Emissenus helpeth you as little as Irenaeus, for he speaketh rhetorically, of the glorious victory that Christ obtained against hell, & the power of darkness, by his death and passion, and descending into hell, whose words if you would expound grammatically, you will make a mad sense of them, & he shall be smally beholding unto you. But it is plain enough, except it be to him that will seek confirmation of errors, out of that which is truly spoken, that he meaneth that the effect and power of Christ's death, mightily vanquished the power of hell & eternal damnation, not which it had actually over the godly, but which by the justice of God, it should have had, if his sacrifice had not purchased mercy. And therefore he saith, Aeterna nox the everlasting night, which adjective is referred also to the gnashing & cheines of the damned. For it was eternal not temporal damnation, from which they were delivered by Christ's death. And therefore that fond shift, which M. Allen imagineth, which he saith may seem like to be the authors meaning, is not worth a straw, as being enforced and brought to the words by him, not expressed in them, by Eusebius. But when these will not help, the supposal of S. Augustine is set down, which because it is but the authority of a man, & him not constant with him self always, it is not of sufficient weight, to bear down the testimony alleged out of God's word. The same man contra Felicianum ad Optatum cap. 15. writeth these words. Si igitur mortuo corpore, ad paeradisum anima mox vocatur, quenquam ne adhuc tam impium credimus, qui dicere audeat, quoniam anima saluatoris nostri, triduo illo corporeae mortis apud inferos custodiae mancipitur. If therefore the body being dead, the soul is immediately called to paradise, believe we yet that there is any man so ungodly, that he dare say, that our Saviors soul, in that 3. days of his bodily death, was committed to prison in hell, &c. In these words, he seemeth utterly to deny, that he came in that prison of hell. You will say he denieth that he tarried there so long, but not that he came not there at all. But then mark this reason, if the souls of good mē immediately are called to paradise, much more was Christ's soul immediately received into paradise, who committed the same into his fathers hands.

5 Now this lusty gallaunt as though he had fully repaired and fortified the old ruinous and battered towers of limbus patrum, with canuas painted walls, he standeth upon his bulwark of brown paper, and crieth defiaunce to all his enemies, and especially he uttereth his spite against Calvin, as a notorious enemy of his cause & quarrel. Whom because he is to young to encounter withal, by any wit, learning, reason, or truth, he spitteth out against him, most impudent sclaunders, railings and lies, in which faculty, he hath strived so much to show him self eloquent, that not satisfying him self with the voice of a man, he hath borrowed the tongue of the Devil him self, or at the least wise, for fear he should not lie thoroughly given over his shameless tongue to be wagged by the father of lies. For what man with any show of human reason would accuse Calvin to deny the sufficiency of the redemptiō of Christ, to affirm that Christ went down into hell after his death to be punished there with the damned him self, for to amend the lack of his passion upon the cross? whose doctrine God him self, the Angels, and all the world doth know and testify, to be directly contrary to these sclaunders. For whoever more constantly affirmed, or more substantially proved the sufficiency of our redemption, by Christ's death? what asse so unlearned, if he can but conster Calvin's latin, in his catechism, institutions, or any part of his works, where he entreateth of that article of Christ's descense in to hell, may not plainly see, that he utterly denieth his descending into hell, after his life, affirming the same to be understood of the wrath of God, which he sustained for our sins before his death, at that time especially when he that was God, complained that he was forsaken of God, which mystery if M. Allen understand not, it is no marvel, seeing he abridgeth so much the benefit of Christ's redemption, as all papists do always, and he specially in this his defense of purgatory, and yet he is not ashamed to say of Calvin: this beast writeth against our blessed Saviors death. If I did not moderate somewhat my corrupt affections, I could requite him the like reproaches, but this much I must needs say. Is Calvin a beast for speaking the truth to the glory of Christ's redemption, & Allen an honest man, for sclaundering him to the defacing of God's honor? But because he would not be thought to have spewed out all his poison against Calvin, he goulpeth up another bowlefull of railing and sclaundering against our Bishops, who have not only suffered, but also commended Calvin's books to be read, and studied of the simple curates, affirming that they do privily set forth by books, that which they dare not openly preach. If every man that can be a witness, that M. Allen lieth in this matter, should pull one hear from his head or bearde, they would leave him never an hear of an honest man behind them. But that he may return to his gentle adversaries, with whom is less dangerous dealing, there be some (he saith) that grant the punishment of the fathers, after their death, of whose liberal concession, he doubteth not but to patch up his Purgatory. In which practice he is not unlike a fond fellow, of whom I have heard men jest in Cambridge, who when he was, non plus, as they term it, in disputation, and all his argument spent, that he had provided: Now (saith he) will I dispute of your concesses and grants. So M. Allen for every matter, when his own reasons fail, hath the concessions of his adversaries which if they will not frankly make, he will forcibly compel them to say what he will have them. Last of all he saith, it is presumption, & such as toucheth the very providence of God, with injury, to say, that he letteth any sinner scape unpunished, which repented not until the hour of death, as for whom he hath no scourge in the next life as he had here, if death had not prevented his purpose. But these he calleth childish cogitations, but he might well have termed them devilish imaginations, which will control the wisdom and mercy of God under his blind reason and corrupt affections and not suffer God to show mercy upon whom he will show mercy. Rom. 9. without his blasphemous and envious murmuring. His promise made so pleasauntely, not to digress from his fautlesse matter, how perfectely he performeth, we shall see afterward.

CAP. III.

1 BEcause this man would show him self mindful of his promise hereafter, he is even now wandered out of Purgatory into excommunication, which notwithstanding he counteth no digression at all, because it doth set forth the order of God's justice in the next life, and prove Purgatory, which were neither so nor so, but that he hath a special grace, to make all things serve his purpose, though they be never so far from it. Omnia ex omnibus, he can make what he list of everything. We confess the power of excommunication given by Christ unto his Church, and the severity of the punishment thereof to be greater, then the swelling words of M. Allens eloquence can express: but where as he addeth, that it hath been the perpetual usage of God's church, for satisfying of God's wrath, to enjoin penance and works of correctiō, before they would absolve, which was the old custom, or else after the release of their offense which was the new fashion, he showeth him self ignorant of the right use and end of that authority, which our Savior hath committed unto his Church. For the chief ende of this discipline, is to bring the sinners to repentance, which if it may be obtained by admonitiō, the sword of excommunication must not be drawn out. As appeareth plainly by Christ's own words Matth. 18. If private admonition, where the offense is not public, may prevail to win our brother, there needeth no witness to be called. If two or three may serve to admonish: y ^e matter need not to be referred to the Churches knowledge: and he that heareth the Church, so that by the admonition thereof he is brought to hearty repentance, is not to be cut of from the Church, nor to be delivered to Satan, for how should the Church refuse him, whom God receiveth: But if he obstinately contemn the gentle admonition of the Church, or as our Savior saith, if he refuse to hear the Church, then let him be as an heathen or publicane. For afterward if being excommunicated: he show hearty tokens of repentance, without any further satisfaction, he is to be received again, as appeareth most manifestly, in the receiving of that Corinthian which was excommunicated, of whose unfeigned repentance, when the Apostle had intelligence, he writeth again to the Corinthians of him saying. It is sufficient for that same man that he was rebuked of many, but now you ought to forgive him and comfort him, that he should not be swallowed up with over much heuines. 2. Cor. 2. And as for the practice of the old and puerer Church, by enjoining of works of repentance, was, that they might not be deceived by conterfect repentance, instead of true and earnest reformation, not to satisfy the wrath of God against sinners (which is not satisfied, but by the blood of Christ) but to satisfy and assure the Church (as much as man might judge) of the unfeigned and hearty repentance of the offender. For how so ever the old writers use the word of satisfaction, something vnproprely, yet their clear affirmation of the only satisfaction of Christ's death, declareth what they understood, when they used that term in another sense. But this is not to be omitted, that M. Allen confesseth the Papists, to have left the old usage of the Church, which was first to set satisfactiō, and then to absolve, and now of late, to have taken up a contrary custom that is, first to absolve then to enjoin penance. This practice therefore lacketh antiquity, one of the chief pillars of Popery. But this he saith is for great causes, but what causes, he doth not express: it is sufficient that the Church cannot err, though they do that which is contrary to the usage of the ancient Church, without ground of Scripture, and against the commandment of Christ. How hard Cyprian was to absolve them, that were excommunicate, before they had shown great fruits of repentance, and how careful, that the Church should not be deceived by them, that vpō counterfected penaūce, required absolution, appeareth by many of his epistles, & in his Sermon De lapsis. But because we shall have a more proper place to speak of satisfaction in the next Chapter, we will now follow M. Allen in this matter of excōmunicatiō.

2 He saith that excommunication was oftentimes joined with torment of body, and sickness, and sometimes with death. Of torment and sickness he bringeth no proof, but of death in Ananias and Sapphira. But where findeth he, that they were excommunicated? I find that they were punished with death for their hypocrisy and dissimulation, but there is no word, nor half word, of their excommunication, and whereas you say, it was for retaining back of certain Church goods, S. Peter saith, it was for: lying and tempting the holy Ghost: And those Church goods were not for vain ostentation of golden copes, chalices, or such like superstitious vanities, but for the necessary relief of the poor. Again, I know in what sense you call S. Peter Christ's vicar, well if the Pope be in the same office Peter was, why doth he not likewise punish those whom he taketh to be Church robbers, if he lack the power (as I am sure he lacketh not the will) then hath he not the authority Peter had. And if Peter did this as Christ's vicar, then is not he Christ's vicar, that cannot do as Peter did.

3 That certain times and ordinary terms were appointed, in which they that grieuousely offended, should show their repentance, the same was not for satisfaction for their sins, but for certain demonstration of their reap̄taunce, which thing appeareth even by the same canons of the Councils which you allege, For when godly discipline began to decaie, whereof Cyprian complaineth often in his epistles, men that notoriously offended would sometime, by thretning and terrors, sometime, by refusing the censure of that church, by whom they were condemned, sometime by flattering the constant Martyrs, and so deceiving them, that they would become suitors for them (at whose request the Church many times was entreated) would seek to thrust them selves again into the communion of the faithful, before they had shown sufficient tokens of sorrow, for so grievous faltes, of which enormyties Cyprian much complaineth as one that was much troubled with thē. as Lib. 1. Epist. 3. Lib. 3. Epist. 15. For remedy of which enormities, and for avoiding of all subtle practices, to restore discipline to the ancient severity, decrees were made by the ancient Councils, in which certain times of trial were appointed, for offenders, to approve their repentance, with regard of the heynousnesse of their crimes: but yet with such moderation, that they might be received before the time appointed, if they shown sufficient fruits of repentance, as appeareth most plainly, in the 11. Canon of the Nicone Council, where it is said: Ab omnibus vero illud praecipue obseruetur, vt animus corum & fructus poenitentiae attendatur, &c. Let this be chiefly considered of all (that are excommunicated) that there mind and fruictes of repentance be considered, for they that with all fear, continual tears, and good works, show their conversion, not only by words but in deed and in truth. &c. With them the Bishop may deal more gently, whereas those that think it is sufficient only to enter into the Church, are charged in any wise to keep the ordinary time. &c. Wherefore he that gathereth that pains are due to sins after remission of them, by example of them that remitted no sins, but after sufficient pains suffered for them, or amends made for them, I hold him not only malicious blind, but beastly unreasonable.

4 Mark here gentle reader, what an absolute power of remissiō of sins, this Papist doth ascribe to the Church, that she might (he saith) by good authority, freely release men of their sins, without satisfying of God's justice, but that she will not, except in some case, where she findeth such dolour and zeal in the offender that her chief and principal Pastors, may by there sovereign authority, wholly discharge him of all pains to come. Mark here the sovereign authority of the Pope not subject, no not to the justice of God. For else how should the Popes pardons stand, or Christ's merits be excluded? if the Pope had not power to do by his sovereign authority, that Christ could not do by his bitter passion, to discharge penitent sinners of all pains to come: you see therefore, that y ^e Popish church, is not as a wife subject to Christ her spouse, to exercise on earth the authority of Christ in heaven, according to his will, but a presumptuous harlot, to claim sovereign authority in earth, whereunto he is bound, which is in heaven. For otherwise, though the old fathers, that were most earnest in maintaining the Churches authority, as Cyprian Sermo. de lapsis, speaking against thē which thought it was sufficient, if they were received by the ordinary authority of the Church, although they were not truly penitent, writeth thus. Nemo se fallat, nemo decipiat. Solus dominus misereri potest. veniam peccatis quae in ipsum commissa sunt, solus potest ill largiri, qui peccata nostra portauit, qui pro nobis doluit, quem Deus tradidit pro peccatis nostris. Homo Deo esse non potest major, nec remittere, aut donare indulgentia sua seruus potest, quod in dominum delicto grauiore commissum est, ne adhuc lapso, & hoc accedat ad crimen, si nesciat esse praedictum: Maledictus homo, qui spem habet in homine: Dominus orandus est, dominus nostra satisfaction placandus est, qui negantem negare se dixit. Let no man (saith he) deceive him self, let no man begile him self. It is only the Lord that can show mercy. Only he can grant pardon to offenses that are committed against him, who hath borne our sins. Who hath suffered sorrow for us, whom God hath given for our sins. A man cannot be greater, then God, neither can the servant by his indulgence remit or forgive that which by so great offense is committed against the Lord, lest this offense also be added to him that is fallen away, if he know not that it is fore shown. Cursed is that man that putteth his trust in man. The Lord must be entreated, the Lord must be pacified with our satisfaction which saith he doth deny that man that denieth him. In these words, Cyprian not only plainly denieth that absolute & sovereign authority of men, which M. Allen affirmeth, but also declareth, what he meaneth by satisfactiō of God. Namely that those which counterfected repentance, and though, by some outward observations, to satisfy the Church, might know they had to do with God, who was not pleased, but with inward and hearty conversion, whose knowledge they must satisfy, with true repentance in deed, as they seek to satisfy judgment of the Church by external signs and tokens thereof. But to return to the common case of Christian men, (for the Popes cases be out of the common case of christen men) M. Allen saith penance (and by penance he still meaneth punishment) is for no other cause enjoined, but to save them from more grievous torment in the world following. In deed true repentance delivereth men from eternal torments, but what is this to purgatory? even as much as the saying of Augustine, by him alleged, where he saith that God punisheth in this life with temporal pains those, whose sins are pardoned, lest they should be reserved in finem, that is forever, which is to be chastised by the Lord, lest we should be damned with the world, of which matter enough hath been said already. To conclude this chapter (because the words following contain nothing but a vain repetition of that which he hath often said before) the censure of excommunication, with the power of binding and loosing, remaineth still inviolable to the Church, now the opinion of purgatory is overthrown, as it did before the doctrine of purgatory ever came into the world.

CAP. IIII.

1 THat a detestable error may be defended with a shameless lie, he beginneth this chapter with a devilish slander. He reporteth that Melancthon (but showeth no place where, lest his impudent lie might be evidently reproved) doth boldly improve all chastisement of our bodies as unnatural torments, to the injury of our person, and the excellencye of our natu • e, and in a manner he is as bold with S. Paul whose express counsel, he saith is, that men should chastise their bodies, where he willeth to judge them selves. As though it were all one, for men to judge them selves, and to chastise their bodies. In deed else where S. Paul commandeth, and by his example commendeth Christian chastisement of men's bodies, by abstinence and fasting, and that not for fear of purgatory, but for danger of eternal damnation. This do I (saith he) for the Gospel's sake, that I may be made partaker of it, and again I chastise my body and bring it in subjection, lest while I preach to others, I myself should become a castaway. 1. Cor. 9. So that all godly men did not chastise their bodies in respect of the avoiding of the temporal pains of purgatory, as M. Allen affirmeth in the title of this chapter, but contrariwise all godly men that followed S. Paul's doctrine and example, had also the same respect that he had. But to return to Melancthon, it may be that in some place of his writings, he improueth the immoderate exercise of bodily chastisement, by which some have killed them selves, some made them selves leapers, some made them selves unable to execute the office of ecclesiastical administration, whereunto they were called by God. But in these cases he hath S. Paul for his warrant, who forbiddeth Timothy the drinking of water, and willeth him to use a little wine, because of his stomach and his often infirmities, assuring him that such bodily exercise profiteth but a little. 1. Tim. 4. & 5. But that Melancthon improueth all godly chastisement of men's bodies, and for godly purposes, it will never be proved until M. Allen have brought purgatory with all men in as great credit as ever it was with any man.

2 Now let us hear what this bragger bringeth to prove that all godly men have chastised their bodies for fear of purgatory. First David in the 51. Psalm, prayeth God to wash him thoroughly from his iniquity, &c. ergo he was afraid of purgatory. I might justly refuse to answer this argument, lest I should defer anything unto it. But let Ambrose answer by M. Allen him self alleged. He so protested his hearty repentance, that he left a testimony thereof to all the world to come. But because S. Ambrose is alleged, rather for the glory of his name, then for the help of his authority in this place S. Augustine is annexed to supply that wanted in S. Ambrose. But that you may see what patching this proctor of Purgatory useth of the doctors sentences, he allegeth not Augustine upon the very words of the 51. Psalm, which make nothing for his purpose, but upon another Psalm, where the argument is nothing like. If Augustine could have found Purgatory out of Amplius laua me, he would have uttered it there, where he expoundeth those words, whereby it appeareth plainly that M. Allens argument standeth upon his own invention, and not upon Augustine's authority. But yet Augustine speaketh of the amending fire in the place by him alleged. He doth so in deed: but I have shown before, and more will show hereafter, that as Augustine had no ground of that fire, but in the common error of his time, so sometimes he affirmeth that it is a matter, that may be doubted of sometimes that there is no third place at all. And that he hath no ground of Scripture in that place of the 38. Psalm, is evident, because David prayeth that God will not punish him in his fury, nor in his wrath, for when so ever he punisheth in his fury and plagueth in his wrath, they must needs perish eternally, he prayeth therefore, that that sickness or other affliction; which God hath laid upon him, might be a merciful chastisement of a father, and not a just punishment of a judge. But whereas the impure mouth of this. Allen is once again opened in railing against the godly preachers of our Church as flatterers of men in dangerous diseases, I would he might hear the children of thunder, inueying with mighty power of God's spirit against sin and wickedness, and calling men to true & unfeigned repentance, peradventure he might be moved to cease his sclaundering for shame of the world, if he did not forethinke him of his wickedness for fear of God. But Nabuchodonizer had a sore corrosiue plaster applied to him, that healed him, and that was alms & mercy toward the poor. He might have alleged many examples, and none less fit to show what painful penance, (as he termeth it) was enjoined by godly prophets. For it was the easiest that could be enjoined to so rich a prince, for so great offenses, to be liberal to the poor. Although David in that place, cited by him, speaketh of no redemption of sins, as that corrupt & false translation which he followeth, doth seem to talk of. But Daniel willed Nabuchodoniser to break of thaccostomed course of his cruelty and tyranny, by alms and liberality. The Ninevites in deed by fasting and lamenting, but most of all by turning from their wicked ways, shown their hearty repentance: and John the Baptist requireth the fruits of repentance, and what godly preacher doth not so? but where did Nathan, Daniel, Jonah, John the Baptist speak one word of purgatory? or of satisfying the justice of God for their sins by such means.

3 Here he asketh leave of the Reader to be somewhat long in rehearsing the opinions of diverse doctors, to confirm his former falsehood, but he should rather have asked leave of the doctors them selves, to bely them so beastly, & to rack their sayings so violently far from their purpose and meanings. And to begin with Origen, what doth he in that place by him alleged? but exhort men unto hearty and earnest repentance, by humbling them selves before God, and acknowledging their sins, which holy Scripture testifieth to be the way to prevent the wrath of God. And what his judgment was concerning satisfaction for sins, he declareth sufficiently in his 3. book upon the Epist. to the Rom. cap. 3. where often times he repeateth, that a man is justified before God by faith only, affirming that in forgiveness of sins, God respecteth no works but faith only, as he proveth by the parable that our Savior used unto Simon the Pharisee. Luke 7. and answereth also those objections, which even the Papists at this day, make against us for teaching that faith only doth justify us in the sight of God. S. Cyprian (as I have sufficiently shown before) calleth such as had fallen in time of persecution from the profession of christianity, to hearty repentance, and to testify the same, by submitting them selves humbly, unto the discipline of the Church. But it is strange to see, how vnconsideratly M. Allen allegeth his places, that oftentimes they contain more plain matter against him, then apparent proof by violent wrasting can be wrong out from them. I marvel M. Allen either seeth not him self, or thinketh that other men cannot espy, that Cyprian exhorteth men to confession of their offenses in this life, where only satisfaction and remission made by the Priests is acceptable unto the Lord. If men cannot satisfy, nor Priest remit, but whilst men are in this life, then farewell satisfaction for the dead and purgatory.

4 Now followeth the authority of S. Augustine, both right and counterfeit, the counterfeit Augustine, that writ the work de poenitentia, &c. I vouchsafe not to answer, because I weigh not the authority, but detest the impudency of him that had patched up such a piece a work, to father upon S. Augustine, as no man of less learning then Augustine was, would abide to go under his own name. The other place in his Enchiridion sufficiently expoundeth it self, that it speaketh of remission of sins in the Church, which according to the discipline of that time, required satisfaction according to the quantity and quality of the offense. The words of S. Ambrose import none other thing, but that an heinous offense must be earnestly bewailed, if repentance be not counterfeted. And where as M. Allen is in a peck of troubles, between that which he supposeth to be the opinion of Ambrose, and that which he allegeth out of Augustine, to prove that the pains of purgatory shall not continue after the resurrection, it is not all worth the pains he taketh about it. For that the said fallen virgins, should not think she had been penitent enough, if she obtained absolution in the judgment of men, he assureth her as Cyprian in his sermon de lapsis, doth the fallen men of his time, that forgiveness of sins is proper unto God only, and followeth not of necessity the sentence of men, but the sentence of men ought to follow the judgment of God. And those words, in die iudicij, about the meaning whereof, M. Allen vexeth him self, are to be understood by the opposite ab humano die, for thereby it is manifest, that the judgment of God is set against y ^e judgment of men. And that is the phrase of the scripture which S. Ambrose followeth, as when S. Paul saith of the Corinthian, that his soul may be salfe in the day of the Lord Jesus Christ, he meaneth not that he should be punished in purgatory, though he repent unto y ^e general day of judgment, but as S. Peter Act. 3. affirmeth, that our sins are forgiven against the coming of Christ to judgment, signifying that then the full fruit of forgiveness of sins shall appear, when we shall thereby be discharged in the judgment of God. But what S. Ambrose thinketh of that kind of satisfaction, whereof M. Allen speaketh, is plain by those words which he uttereth of Peter in his exposition of S. Luke lib. 10. cap. 2. Lachrymas eius lego, satisfactionem non lego. I read of his tears, I read not of his satisfaction. But unto the other kind of satisfaction, whereby the church is satisfied, our Savior Christ driveth Peter, when he causeth him to blot out the memory of his treble denial, with a treble confession of his love: As Augustine also acknowledgeth: but if purgatory be so necessary to satisfy God's justice by temporal pains of sinners, according to the time, &c. and purgatory shall cease at the day of judgment, as you affirm out of Augustine, howe shall the same be satisfied in such as die immediately before the day of judgment, so that they have not had time enough, there to be sufficiently purged, the like may be demanded, of all them which in a moment shall be changed from mortality to immortalitye, at the very coming of Jesus Christ to judgment. These questions M. Allen will trouble your head to answer and retain your former principles, more then that whereof you make your doubt, and your determination as uncertain as your doubt: while you are so cumbered, on the one side to uphold purgatory, upon color of satisfying God's justice, on the other side, to maintain the Popes pardon, without satisfying of God's justice, so that how so ever you satisfy yourself in your own fantasie, I promise you no reasonable man can be satisfied by your doubtful disputations, and unsteadfast conclusions.

5. Here, because you have no likely matter out of S. Ieronyme to serve your turn, yet to make a show of his name, you must repeat that, which is nothing like to your matter. Paula was penitent for her sins, with prayers, alms, and fasting, and all for fear of purgatory. So saith M. Allen. But Ieronyme saith not so, M. Allen is here all the credit of the matter, believe him as you list. But if any man had rather believe Chrysostom speaking of such kind of works, as M. Allen and his fellows, count to be the chief works of penance, whether they serve for satisfaction for our sins unto God, let him consider what he writeth, in his treatise de compunctione cordis, lib. 2. Non requirit Deus ciliciorum pondus, neque concludi inter angustias cellulae, ne{que} in obscuris antris & tencbrosis sedere iubet: hoc solum est quod exposcatur à nobis, vt semper recordemur mala nostra, &c. God requireth not the burden of heavy garments, not to be shut up with the straits of a little cell, neither doth he command us to sit in obscure and dark dungeons or dens: this only is that which is required of us, that we should always remember our evil life, &c. you see therefore by Chrysostom's judgment, that neither the satisfaction of God's righteousness, nor any obedience of God's commandment, hath banished the Heremites, closed up the Anachorets, and cloyed the world with cloysterers, but the superstitious and slavish fear of purgatory, & the blasphemous presumptuous pride of men's merits. I pass over, as not proper to your matter, that for the honor of Christ, you except his mother, from confessing her self to be indebted to God, and not to be in the number of those, by whom the Lord's prayer is to be said. Such honor neither doth God allow her, nor she arrogate unto her self, but acknowledgeth her own baseness, and joyfully accepteth God's salvation. It is greater honor to Christ, to be savior of his mother, then to have such a mother, as had no need of his salvation. He him self more then once, is read to have reproved her, wherein he had done her wrong, if she had committed no trespass. Luke. 2. John. 2.

6 But list you hear, how this presumptuousse pratler, cannot conclude his chapter which he began with lying upon Melancthon, but by slandering of Calvin. He feigneth that Calvin in the words by him rehearsed, confesseth all the doctors to be against him, and yet setteth not a butten for them all. The best reproof of this calumniation, shall be to send them that be desirous to know the truth, unto the whole discourse of Calvin, upon satisfaction Insti. lib. 3. cap. 4 which who so list to do, shall plainly see, whether Allen doth him not here open wrong. But because every man either cannot for the lack of the book, or will not for want of good affections towards Calvin, take so much pains, as to peruse his own writing. I will answer in a word or two.

After that Calvin hath most substantially proved, both by authority of holy Scripture, and also by consent of ancient doctors, that their is no satisfaction unto God for our sins, but only the death of Christ, he cometh at length, to speak of the word of satisfaction, which saith he, as it is often used in the old writers, so sometime hardly, as improperly (that M. Allen calleth roughly) or if any of them have erred about satisfaction, it were not reason, that their error should prevail against the open truth. And clearly to convict M. Allen, of a loud lie, where he saith that Calvin confesseth all the doctors to be against him, his words follow immediately after those rehearsed by M. Allen: Sed non credam eos ipsos adeo fuisse rudes & imperitos, vt eo sensu illa scripserint, quo à nouis istis satisfactionariis legūtur. That is, how soever they have either erred, or spoken vnproprely of satisfaction, yet I will not grant, that the same men were so rude and ignorant, that they did wright those things, in that sense, in which they are read by these new satisfactionaries. Then doth he bring forth diverse testimonies both out of Chrysostom and Augustine to show what their judgment was of satisfaction agreeable to the Scriptures by which must be expounded, what so ever they have uttered that seemeth either erroneous or at the lest vnproprely spoken. As for that reverend father M. Jewel whom this arrogant Louanist, calleth the English bragger, how well he hath answered his challendge, his own learned labors, do more clearly testify unto the world, then that it can be blemished by this sycophants braynlesse babbling.

CAP. V.

1 T Riumphing before the victory, and that is more, before the encontry of hand strokes, (for we come to joining but now) you will now win your spurs or else it shall be a black day with all Protestants. I will be as short in mine answer, as you are in your arguments. And that I may put on an armor of proof, to bear of your terrible haileshot, your first argument hath neither good form nor matter, no more hath your second, no more hath your third? If you or any for you, will prepare yourself to give a bitter charge, either I or some other, shall be ready to shape you another answer. But because here is nothing in this brief joining, but which hath been largely discharged before, in answer to your longe excursions, it were nedelesse to make such vain repetition, as you do, especially in your last short argument, in which space all the substance of your large book might easily have been placed, only to fil up a competent length of the fifth chapter, and with such a tedious enlarging of a superfluous matter, as a young practiser of Rhetoric would be ashamed to use, in a feigned declamation, much worse becoming an ancient master of art, professing to truss up his arguments by Logic, to make a perfect persuasion. As for the promise of further proof, both out of the Scriptures and out of the doctors that followeth after this gallant joining, and lusty challenge, shall have no prejudice of my disabling of the mean to perform it until it appear by plain conference of his arguments and mine answers, that his words are but wind, and his promise but prattling.

CAP. VI.

1 O Nce again I pray you note this orderly proceeding, look when he maketh such a liberal promise, as in the chapter going before, the performance shall not follow by and by after, but by interlacing of other matter, it shall be first out of mind, and then he may better keep his credit, when he goeth about to perform it. Yere while he would in all the hast, make direct proof by holy Scripture, of the doctrine of purgatory, but now as though purgatory were already proved, he will show for what use it serveth, namely to cleanse and qualify the soul of man, that it may be meet to enter into the holy places. And for this purpose, he showeth at large, which might have been uttered in brief, that the corruption of man's sinful nature is so great, and the perfection of dignity, whereunto we are called so high, as man, except he be thoroughly purged, is no meet person to be partaker thereof. But lest he should be thought here to forget the perfect restitution by Christ, he confesseth the perfect purgation of our sins to be wrought by his blood, yet he saith, it is not meet that the might of that mercy should work in this freedom of our will, without all pain or travel of the offenders. This is to give with one hand, and to pull away with the other hand. But that this enemy of the cross of Christ, shall not thus pass away with his reservations and exceptions, that which he granteth, we will take at the hand of God, and not of this impure blasphemer: who by his holy spirit teacheth us that the blood of Christ doth purge us from all our sins: & being washed by him we are thoroughly clean. John 13. So that although our sins were as redd as scarlet, they are made as white as snow. Isaiah 1. Then being thoroughly purged, washed & cleansed as white as snow, we are made capable of the heavenly inheritance and the fruition of eternal glory. And if any man had rather believe an Angel, before M. Allen, an elder of the heavenly consistory, sooner then a young palting proctor of purgatory: Let him hear what is said to S. John in his revelation, 7. cap. whereby is declared by what privilege, all the faithful departed appear in innocence before the throne of God. These are they (saith the Angel) that came out of that great affliction, and have washed their stoles and made them white in the blood of the lamb: therefore they are in the presence of the throne of God, and serve him day and night, &c. Mark here that they which came out of this great affliction, were not purged thereby, after M. Allens fantasy, but that they washed and made white their garments, in the blood of the lamb, by whose righteousness they being clothed, may appear in innocency before the throne of God. As for that which is cited out of Ambrose, of the fiery sword, is meant of the sorrow of repentance, and with no equity can be racked to the pains of purgatory.

2 Consider what wholesome doctrine this student in Divinity gathereth out of the Scriptures of God. David not content with remission of his sins, seeketh to be better cleansed, to have them wholly blotted out, and to be made as white as snow▪ but by what means M. Allen ? or at whose hands? Dare you say that he prayeth God to cleanse him better by his own suffering, then he was by God's merciful pardon? What was figured by the bunch of Isope, dypped in the lambes blood, with which he desireth to be sprinkled, assuring him self that thereby he shall be washed whiter then snow? Was it purgatory, or the aspertion of the blood of Christ? O horrible blasphemer, wilt thou never acknowledge the omnisufficiency of the benefit of man's redemption by the son of God? shall thy vain gangling and iumbling of thy devises with God's decrees, obscure the glory of our Lord and Savior Christ his passion, who hath loved us, and washed us, from our sins by his blood, and made us Kings and Priests in the sight of God, who hath given him self for his beloved Church, that he might sanctify it, and cleanse it, by the washing of water, through the word, that he might make it unto himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blame. What similitude hath this with Allens prattling of pureness and patching in of purgatory? As for the place alleged out of Isaiah the 4. Because he dare not abide by it him self, but confess that it is but a conjecture of his own, to draw it to purgatory which in deed is plainly spoken of the reformation of the Church in this life. I need spend no more time in answering it.

3 Now I trow cometh the confirmation of purgatory out of the holy Scriptures, or else it will never come, when two texts are alleged at once. But although M. Allen hath rather craftily confounded, then faithfully compared these two texts together, for all his protestation of plain dealing: yet will I severally consider them, and show both by the plain circumstances of the places them selves, and also by the judgment of the ancient doctors, that neither of them both appertaineth any whit to purgatory. First Malachi prophecieth plainly of the first coming of Christ, and of his fore runner John the Baptist, as the words going before, without all controversy do declare. Behold I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord whom ye seek, shall speedily come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant whom ye desire, behold he shall come saith the Lord of hosts, but who may abide the day of his coming, &c. witness of this is no less, then even our Savior Christ him self, Luke the 7. alleging this saying of the Prophet, for the coming of John the Baptist. These words also, where it is said that the Lord shall come into his temple, do sufficiently declare, that he describeth the office of Christ, in reforming the corrupt state of the Church at his first coming, and not in judging the quick and the dead at the last appearing. Finally the exact trial and purging that he speaketh of, is y ^e discovering of hypocrites by his doctrine, whereof also John the Baptist preacheth, that his fan is in his hand, and he shall purge his floor, &c. To conclude, that this may not be thought to be mine own collection, it is the judgment and interpretation of Ieronym upon this very text Malachi the 3. in every point: who with all his learning, could find no purgatory fire spoken of in this cap. Now to the other place o • Paul, that it can by no equity be drawn to purgatory for all M. Allens likelihood numbering in the margent, it shall be manifest by as many evident arguments. First S. Paul speaketh not generally of all men, but of preachers only that are buylders of God's Church. Secondly he speaketh not of all their works, but of their preaching or building only. Thirdly he speaketh never a word of purging or making clean of men's works, but of the trial of the work of building which is doctrine. But what doctrine is tried to be true or false, substantial or superficial by the fire of purgatory? Fourthly the works are said that shall be tried by fire, and not the persons. Fifthly the gold and silver abideth, the straw and stuble consumeth, through the fire of this trial, which is the judgment of God, and not the pains of purgatory. And this is the judgment of Ieronym upon the place of Malachi, before rehearsed, where also he applieth the text of Isaiah 4. before cited by M. Allen. fol. 59. The Lord (saith he) is a consuming fire to burn up our wodde, hay, and straw. The other observations be also taken out of that ancient doctor whose commentary upon the epistle to the Corinthians hath gone under the name of Ieronym and is annexed to his works, saving that by gold, silver, wodde, straw, &c. he understandeth the men them selves, and not their works. But as for purgatory he findeth none by that text. S. Augustine also although otherwise, inclining to the error of purgatory, yet he is clear that this text proveth it not, neither ought to be expounded of it, and that he showeth by many reasons, Enchirid. ad Laurentium cap. 68. where he affirmeth that by the fire is meant the trial of tribulation in this life, Chrysostom upon the same text, understandeth by the fire everlasting punishment even of him that shall be saved through fire without any mention of purgatory, except it be in reproving them that denied immortal punishment to be meant by this place. in 1. Cor. 3. Hom. 9. But if the place were to be considered absolutely, without regard of circumstances, as the Papists do when they expound it for purgatory, yet cannot it aptly be framed thereto, because he saith that every man's work, or the man him self if they will, shall pass through that fire, but they thē selves affirm, that perfect good men shall not come there at all, nor very wicked men, but only men of a middle sort, but by trial of this fire whereof S. Paul speaketh, good men shall receive reward when their work endure, therefore this is not the fire of purgatory.

CAP. VII.

1 THat the judgment of God beginneth at the death of every man and so continueth until the full manifestation thereof in the last day, is clearer by the Scripture of God, then that it needeth the confirmatiō of man's authority. But that Ambrose is alleged to prove, that every man immediately after his death, doth feel that he must look for in the day of judgment, I marvel to what purpose it is brought in, if it be not to overthrow purgatory. For if it be true, as it must needs be, no man feeleth pain after this life, but he that shall feel it eternally. And surely to the same effect he speaketh in his book de bono mortis where he commendeth the death of the faithful quia deteriorem statum non efficit, sed qualem in singulis inuenerit, talem iudicio fururo reseruat, & quiet ipsis fouet, & praesentium inuidiae subducit, & futurorum expectatione componit. Because (death) maketh not their state worse, but such as it findeth in every man, such it reserveth into the judgment to come, and quietly chierisheth them and both taketh them away from the envy of things present, and settleth them in expectation of things to come. Thus saith Ambrose plainly in this place, whatsoever he speaketh allegorically of the fiery sword in other places. Well it is evident (you say) that the souls departed sleep not, of which error Luther also was noted. I never hard any man of credit note him thereof, who is well known to have been of a clean contrary judgment: but I read in the acts of the Council of Constance, that Pope John the 23 was condemned for denying the immortality of the soul, the resurrection of the dead and the life everlasting. But if the souls sleep not, then they be awake in purgatory, or if ye reason not so subtly, you mean, that if they be at all in purgatory, they be there immediately after their departure out of their bodies. But how shall we prove, that they come there at all? Forsooth by the sayings of the Prophet and of the Apostle before alleged, which are so plain proof and so evident to be understood, of them selves, that they need none other interpretation. But how plain it is, that they serve nothing to that purpose, I have sufficiently declared already: yet must we further follow the same matter, because here are brought in the authority of the doctors to agree with M. Allens gloss.

2 The first place is given unto Augustine, because he is in a manner confessed to be a patron of some of our opinions, though he be not of all. This doctor in his 20 book de ciuitate dei, is said to expound the text of Melachy as M. Allen hath done of the pains of purgatory. But read the place with indifferent judgment who so can and will, and he shall plainly perceive, that Augustine speaketh not of M. Allens purgatory, which is said to be immediately after men's death, but of certain purging pains, which he supposeth some shall suffer at the last day of God's general judgment, and yet he is so uncertain of that exposition, that he doubteth whether this purging, whereof the Prophet speaketh, may not be understood of that separation, which shall be of the godly from the wicked in that day. Howbeit 21. book cap. 13. of the same work, he concludeth very clearly, that some suffer temporal pains after this life. This may not be denied: but how unconstant Augustine was in his error, appeareth by this, that sometime he doubteth whether there be any such matter, other whiles he seemeth plainly to deny all other receptacles of the souls departed beside heaven and hell. For both in his Enchiridion ad Laurentium cap. 69. & de octo Dulcitij in quaestionibus quaest. 1. he saith, that as it is not incredible, that such a matter may be after this life, so it may be doubted, whether it be so or no. Likewise in his book de fide & operibus cap. 16. he hath these words speaking of that text to S. Paul 1. Corinthians. 3. Siue ergo in hac vita tantum homines ista patiuntur, sieve etiam post hanc vitam talia iudicia subsequantur, non abho • ret quantum arbitror a ration veritatis, iste intellectus huius sententiae. Whether men suffer these things in this life only, or whether such judgments follow after this life also: the understanding of this sentence abhorreth not as I think, from the way of truth. Again in Hypognost. contra Pelagianos lib. 5. he acknowledgeth the kingdom of heaven for to receive the godly, and hell fire for the punishment of the wicked, but a third place saith he we are altogether ignorant of, neither do we find it in the holy Scriptures. He writeth against the Pelagians, that imagined a third place, for the rest of infants, that were not baptized, but the same reason serveth as well against the popish purgatory, because we find it not in the holy Scriptures: to the like effect he writeth de verbis Apostoli sermon 14. where he acknowledgeth the right hand and the left hand of God, that is the kingdom of heaven, and the pains of hell: the middle place he utterly denieth, wherein infantes may be placed because there is no mention thereof in the Gospel. But to return to the third place, alleged by M. Allen, out of S. Augustine, ser. 3. Psal. 103. How would he have us to take it for a confirmation of his exposition of S. Paul's words, touching the pains of purgatory, which are said to begin immediately after this life, when he him self confesseth that it is to be understood of the universal conflagration of the world at the day of judgment? Thus you see that here were great brags made, that Augustine's authority maintained his interpretation of those 2. texts of Scripture, concerning popish purgatory, which he him self contendeth to begin as soon as men are dead: When Augustine in both those places (as the plain circumstance of the place declareth the one, and the conf • ssion of M. Allen admitteth the other) speaketh of a kind of purging which he did think should not be, before the whole world were purged at once by fire.

3 As he saith little out of Ambrose so it is soon answered: first it maketh little for him, that Ambrose expoundeth the wodde, hay, and stuble, vain curious and unprofitable doctrine, for that prouethe, that only the work of teachers shall pass the trial of this fire, which is the judgment of God's spirit the true discerner of doctrines, but yet Ambrose expoundeth the fire to be a purging and a punishment. But whether it be in this life or after this life, you have no ground out of this place of Ambrose, and therefore it finally availeth your cause. And that Ambrose allowed no purging after this life, is plain enough by those words which he writeth upon the 40. Psalm: For where the prophet saith he shall be made happy on earth: Ambrose inferreth, Bene addidit in terra, quia nisi hic mundatus fuerit, ibi mundus esse non poterit. He hath well added on earth, for if he be not cleansed here, he cannot be cleansed there.

4 The last place is reserved for S. Ieronym, who seemeth to give a perfect testimony for M. Allens behoove, if he be no further examined, then M. Allen rehearseth his words. but howe little they make for him if they be duly discussed, except it be to prove Ieronym an Origenist, and so to discredit his testimony, I will stand to the judgment of all reasonable Papists, that will vouchsafe to weygh the matter with me, and not be willfully deceived. For first it is manifest, that Ieronym writing upon these words of Isaiah, whose worm shall not die nor the fire be extinguished, speaketh of the last judgment in the ende of the world, and then rehearseth the arguments of them, that thought the punishment of that worm and fire should be ended after long time, and great torments: which thing Ieronym saith must be left to the only knowledge of God, &c, whom he confesseth to be a merciful judge, and so it may be, that he will release the eternal torments that wicked Christians have deserved after the day of judgment, but he defineth nothing. And as for M. Allens purgatory, which he defendeth to begin straight way after men's departure hence, he speaketh never a word. But rather of the purging fire of God's judgment, which some of the Origenistes did extend to the purifying and saving of all Christians, were they never so wicked, from whose opinion he seemeth not altogether to descent, though he do not plainly allow it. And that he writeth upon the first of Ezekiel, to which place M. Allen sendeth us, he speaketh of the providence of God, which so governeth the afflictions of his Saints, that that which seemed to be a punishment is converted into a medicine. As children imagine that spirits and goblines be in every dark corner: So M. Allen never readeth fire and torment, but by and by he dreameth of purgatory.

CAP. VIII.

1 WHether M. Allen knew that his former witnesses did not agree, or that he would give a taste of his bountiful dealing in pressing us with more testimonies then needed, he will now produce Origen, whom though he confess to be infamouse for heresy, yet evē of his error, he will not doubt but to ground his purgatory. Origen will have men pass through a fire, but to make it plain that he meaneth not y ^e fire of Popish purgatory, we shall perceive by other places of his writings, that he speaketh of such a fire, as all men be they never so just, shall pass through, affirming that all mē have need of purifications after his life, ye Peter & Paul and such like in Num. Hom. 25. & in Psal. 36. Hom. 3. But all men pass not through the Popes purgatory. I pass over here the gross allegory, that he maketh of the blood of Devils by which a man shall be washed and purified in the kingdom of God, that being so purified and made clean he may enter into the city of God. Num. Hom. 25. But how soever he doteth about passage through fire and purifications after this life, yet he affirmeth in another place that the day of Christian men's death is the deposition of pain, whereby it appeareth that either he was not constant with him self, or else that Origen's purgatory was a painlesse purgatory. His words are in Job Lib. 3. Nam priores diem natiuitatis celebrabant, vnam vitam diligentes, & aliam post hanc non sperantes. Nunc vero nos non natiuitatis diem celebramus, cum sit dolorum atque tentationum introitus, sed mortis diem celebramus, vtpote omnium dolorum depositionem, atque omnium tentationum effugationem. The former men did celebrate, the day of nativity, as they that loved but one life, and hoped for none after this. But now we do not celebrate the day of Natiuitie, seeing it is the entrance of sorrows and temptations, but we celebrate the day of death, as that which is a deposition of all griefs, and an avoiding of all temptations.

2 Now followeth a confuse and tedious discourse of Augustine's judgment, touching Origen's error, but it may be reduced unto these two pointes. First why Augustine would not interpret that place of Paul. 1. Cor. 3. of purgatory: and secondly whether Augustine were in any doubt at all of purgatory, between which two questions is begotten a third conclusion, that purgatory serveth only for venial and light offenses. To the first he seemeth to say, that Augustine refuseth to understand that place of purgatory, either because he cold not otherwise withstand the arguments of the Originests, or else because he would take all hold away from them, rather then that it was his constant judgment, because in other places, where he was free from contention he ever grounded purgatory vpō that place. How honorable this answer is for Augustine, or how beneficial for Allen, using Augustine's authority, I refer to be judged of all them that be wise and learned. To the second he saith, that Augustine never doubted, whether there were any pains of purgatory after this life, but whether men after their death retained any carnal affections. I will once again rehearse the words of Augustine, that all indifferent, men may judge, whether M. Allens answer may stand with his saying in a reasonable meaning. Tale aliquid etiam post hanc vitam fieri incredibile non est: & vtrum ita sit quaeri potest. It is not incredible, that some such thing is done after this life, and whether it be or no, it may be inquired of, that is (saith M. Allen ) whether men have any carnal affection to their wives, children &c. after this life, it may be a question. But Augustine goeth further in the same place and saith: Et aut inueniri aut latere, nonnullos fideles, per ignem quendam purgatorium quanto magis minúsue, bona pereuntia dilexerunt, tanto tardius citiusque saluari. Non tamen tales de quibus dictum est, quod regnum Dei non possidebunt, nisi conuenientes poenitentibus eadem crimina remittantur. And either it may be found, or still be hid, that some of the faithful, by a certain purgatory fire, by how much they have more or less loved transitory God's, by so much later or sooner, are they saved, but yet not such, of whom it is saved, that they shall not possess the kingdom of God, except the same crimes be forgiven them being sufficiently repentant for them. These words are so plain against M. Allens new forged meaning, that I suppose he never read them in Augustine's own books, but only received his notes of some elder Papists, that had spent more time in gathering them, but had not such audacity to utter them as M. Allen, of which conjecture, there is no small likelihood sone after. I omit his foolish supposition, if S. Augustine had but said: belike there is no such mean place in the life following. &c. I have already without M. Allens suppositiō shown, that Augustine some where said, he knew neither third place, nor mean place, nor none could find in the holy Scriptures, nor Gospel of God. Nevertheless with much wrangling to defend the vncerteinety or inconstancy of Augustine's judgment touching purgatory, we have won so much, that purgatory serveth to purge none but very small and light offenses. But how longe shall we hold this? Scarse to the latter ende of this chapter. For in the next capter, he findeth out a shift to wring in heinous and deadly sins also. For else the release of small faults, would not be half so gainful.

3 Next ensueth the authority of Ieronym or Bede, or perhaps, neither of them both, but yet of some old writer, which holdeth, that from light sins, men may be absolved after their death by pains, prayers, alms, or masses. This was a writer for M. Allens tooth, but neither of antiquity, nor credit sufficient to carry away this cause.

The judgment of Oecumenius and Theodoretus, though they were writers about that time, when corruption of doctrine had greatly prevailed, yet are they not clear for popish purgatory, which the Greek Church although they pray for the dead, yet would never agree to acknowledge.

4 Last of all here is vaunt made of the testimony of Remigius, as though he were a new author, and perhaps M. Allen in his notes, found him so, but it is nothing else but the saying of Ieronym almost word for word upon 3. Malachi, 3. which before we have shown sufficiently to be ment of the judgment that Christ should exercise by his doctrine, at his first coming, and nothing at all pertaining to purgatory. And therefore these golden words (as you cal them M. Allen) have a leaden exposition, when they be drawn from the preaching of the Gospel, to the maintenance of purgatory.

CAP. IX.

1 NO marvel but you must crowe like a cock of the game, you have obtained such a noble victory out of Origen's error, and specially you have discover • d such a solemn secrete to the young petits of popery, that only venial sins are cleansed by purgatory, that they are much beholding to you. But lest your kitchen should be cold if none but venial sins should pass through the heat of purgatory, you have found out a sutle shift, howe to bring mortal sins also through y ^e same pykes of purgatory, for discharge of which you know men will bestow more cost, then for release of those, that with only sprinkling of holy water, as you wott well, may be washed away. Therefore mortal sins must be remitted in this life, and then they may be purged in the fire of purgatory, as being now become in the case of venial sins. O deep mysteries revealed out of the bottomless pit, which have no ground at all in the word of God, but are manifestly overthrown thereby, even from the foundations. For the foundation of this doctrine, is the distinction of venial and mortal sins, whereas the word of God plainly determineth, that every sin is mortal and deserveth eternal death, seem it never so small. Cursed is everyone that abideth not in all things that are written in the law to fulfill them. Deu. 27. The soul that sinneth shall die. Eze. 18. The reward of sin is death. Rom. 6. And as for that distinction, which S. John maketh of a sin to death, a sin not to death, hath nothing common with that of the papists, for all sin that by the mercy of God is pardonable, he calleth a sin not unto death, for which God is entreated that giveth life to them that have so sinned. And that sin he counteth unto death, which is irremissible, as obstinate & willful apostasy. Heb. 6. blasphemy against the holy ghost. Math. 12. &c. for which it is not lawful io pray. Thus by judgment of God's word, are all sins mortal which Papists call venial, and all that they count mortal, by God's spirit are counted venial. For by the justice of God, all sins are mortal, but by his mercy, they are all pardonable, except that sin unto death, whereof S. John speaketh. 1. John. 5. But to return to M. Allens shift, and to examine whether it will satisfy the judgment of those old writers, which affirm that only small and light offenses are cleansed by the fire of purgatory. M. Allen saith, mortal sins become venial, by remission. The Scripture teacheth that sins forgiven are not imputed at all. But M. Allens doctrine is, that remission of sins doth not take sins away but only changeth their nature, from mortal to venial, yea he is not ashamed to vouch Augustine to warranty, as though he should say, that a mortal sin forgiven, is become a venial trespass, &c. If all men were blind, this fellow would play trimly with their noses, when he will be so bold with all men that can see: Augustine's words as he citeth them in Latin are these. Quaedam enim sunt peccata quae mortalia sunt, & in poenitentia fiunt venialia, that is, there are some sins which are deadly of their own nature, but by repentance they are made venial. I have translated them as he doth, saving that he calleth poenitentia penance which I, to avoid the ambiguity of the english word, as it is taken by the Papists, have turned repentance. Now is it all one to say, that such sins as of their own nature deserve death, may yet be pardoned to him that repenteth? which is the manifest meaning of Augustine's words, and that which M. Allen fathereth upon him, as though he said, a mortal sin forgiven is become a venial trespass? Again this doctors words are plain of light and small offenses, and not of heinous and great offenses, that by pardon are made little offenses.

2 The rest of this chapter is so vainly consumed, in serching how the perfect men shall pass through purgatory and feel it not, that it is not worth the answering, but only to see how he is combred to reconcile the doctrine of the Papists concerning purgatory, and the opinions of the old writers, touching them that pass through fire into paradise. For their opinion (as we have seen before) was that all men were they never so just, passed through that fire, and were purified thereby. The Papists affirm, that perfect just men come not at all in their purgatory, as the M of the sentence teacheth lib. • . dist. 21. M. Allen to retain the authority of the old writers, holdeth that perfect just mē pass through this purgatory, without sense of pain, or making any stay there, yea he doubteth not to affirm, that Christ him sel • e passed through the fire of purgatory, though he could not feel the smart of it, because he was pure from sin. Is not this wholesome doctrine think you? to be so careful to rack the fiery sword, that Ambrose speaketh of, unto purgatory, that he is not ashamed to invent a new article of our faith, that Christ descended into purgatory.

CAP. X.

1 HEre according to M. Allens orderly proceeding, is alleged for purgatory a place out of S. Matthew, where Christ saith to him that neglecteth to reconcile him self to his adversary, before he came to the judge, that he shall be cast into prison from whence he shall not come, until he have paid the uttermost farthing. The meaning of Christ is plain, that he shall never come out no more, then that wicked servant, which was cast in prison until he should pay the whole debt which was ten thousand talents. Matth. 18. But before we go any further, let us se how the doctrine of this chapter agreeth with that we had in the chapter next before. The • e we were told, that purgatory serveth but for venial sins, or else for such mortal sins as by forgiveness in this life obtained, are made venial trespasses. But here not only vices and fleshly conversation, but also contempt of all that preach Christ and repentance of our loathsome life past, &c. are said to be the debt that must be discharged in purgatory to the uttermost farthing, then the which no vice is more mortal, nor farther from forgiveness. For he that not only leadeth a loathsome life, but also contemneth all those means that Christ hath wrought to reduce him to the perfecton of a Christian godly life (I use his own words) how can he have remission of his sins in this life, and yet M. Allen dare promise him, that the toleration of bands in the prison of purgatory, shall recompense his debt, and bring him from thence into the blessed presence of Christ. M. Allen hath the most passing faculty of any that ever I heard, to build one thing in one leaf, and to overthrow it him self again in the next. Nevertheless I cannot abide that he should promise a pardon of that payment, which Christ sweareth shall be made unto the uttermost farthing. For he that refuseth reconciliation or repentance in this life, must not look for a pardon after this life. Therefore if M. Allen will needs understand this prison for purgatory, I will be so bold upon Christ's oth and earnest asseveration to affirm, that he which is so imprisoned shall neither look for mercy nor satisfaction by other men's payment, but by his own suffering. But let us see how he proveth, that this place is to be understood of purgatory? First by likelihood that he should not have said: he shall not escape until he hath paid the uttermost farthing, but rather, cast him into the dark dungeon of everlasting damnation. M. Allen either cannot, or will not see, that Christ here continueth an allegory of a temporal judgment, as Matt. 18. where he hath the same, Donec, as the same in like sense is often used else where. Secondly the name of imprisonment, will not well admit (he saith) any other meaning, but of a temporal torment, as though hell is not called a prison. 1. Peter. 3. And Apoc. 20. which is a place of everlasting torments. Therefore here is no show of matter but big words only

2 In this part are two testimonies alleged, one of Rupertus, another of Paulinus, of which Rupertus affirmeth his exposition of the adversary, but touching purgatory he saith nothing. Paulinus interpreteth the adversary somewhat otherwise, but he speaketh of them that do agree with him in the way of this life, whose sorrow he saith shall not exceed seven days, but what sorrow they shall abide that contemn this agrement, he saith nothing, but generally of the accompt of the uttermost farthing. I marvel whether M. Allen was awake when he alleged these two testimonies for purgatory, or whether he thought that all men should be asleep that should read them.

3 The place of Cyprian hath more couller, but yet not so clear for purgatory as M. Allen would seem to make it. For first it is plain by the words both going before and following after, that he speaketh of adulterers that are pardoned in the Church, of whom some bishops that were Cyprian his predecessors had so hard a judgment, that they did utterly seclude them from reconciliation, and allowed them no place of repentance, but Cyprian was not of that unreasonable severity, for his Church did receive them, although they compted them not equal with martyrs or continent persons. For it is one thing to be admitted by pardon, as adulterers are, but yet with some note of ignominy, another to come to glory, as martyrs and continent persons do. It is one thing by denying of reconciliation to adulterers in this life, to drive them to that prison, from whence they shall not come till they have paid the uttermost farthing, another thing to compt them vnreconciled, like them that immediately receive the reward of there faith and virtue. It is one thing for a man after he hath been longe time vexed with sorrow for his sins, to be reformed as one that hath been long purged in the fire, another thing by suffering persecution to have purged all his sins. Finally it is one thing to hange upon the sentence of God in the day of judgment, as they seem to do which being penitent for their heinous sins, yet are not absolved from them by the Church: An other thing to be assured of their crown, which have strived lawfully. And this I take to be the simple meaning of Cyprians words, agreeing with the circumstance of the place. But if they were otherwise meant by him, surely they cannot but with carte ropes be drawene to the Popes purgatory. For those that stand by pardon he excludeth from glory, and those that are reformed by sorrow and purged by fire, he suspendeth until the last day, and then maketh them uncertain of the sentence also: which cannot stand with the Papists opinion of purgatory: no more then that which he writeth in his treatise against Demetrianus toward the ende. Quando isthinc excessum suerit, nullus iam locus poenitentiae est, nullus satisfactionis effectus. Hic vita aut amittitur aut tenetur &c. When men are gone hence, there is no place of repentance, no effect of satisfaction: while we are here life is either lost or held. And exhorting Demetrianus him self to repentance which had been a wicked man and a persecutor of the Christians, he saith to him: Tu sub ipso licet exitu, & vitae temporalis occasu, pro dilictis roges Deum, qui vnus & verus est, confessionem & fidem agnitionis eius implores, venia confitenti datur, & credenti indulgentia salutaris de diuina pietate conceditur, & ad immortalitatem sub ipsa morte transitur. If thou although it but a little before the ende and decay of this temporal life shall pray to God for thy sins, which is the only true God, If thou desire confession and faith of his knowledge, pardon is given to him that confesseth, and wholesome forgiveness of the goodness of God is granted to him that believeth, and even from the hour of death he passeth into immortality. By this appeareth what Cyprian his judgment was of purgatory and the effect of satisfaction after this life.

4 As for this authority of Eusebius which hath served for a patch to piece up so many homilies, of so many diverse men as a Cuckowes song uttered in diverse places, seemeth neither to have Eusebius nor Augustine, nor any other good author to be the father of it, but even some cowled cuckowe, that hath left this egg in so many birds nests to be hatched under their wings, and to be counted for one of their chickens, but that your voice doth soon bewray it. And here a man may note a great piece of cunning in them that had the writing out of books, about those times when errors began to take strength, that not only whole works were falsely intitled to diverse good authors, but also patches inserted to their own works. And if anything by them were once spoken, that sounded to the confirmation of those errors, that was thrust into diverse places of their writings, lest it should scarce be espied in one. And hereof it cometh, that such sayings in Augustine, Chrysostom and other, as seem to allow prayer for the dead, be so often repeated in their writings, and especially in homilies that were taken of their mouths, by Scribes and Notaries. But who so ever was the father of this sentence as he speaketh friendely for the pains of purgatory, so he showeth himself an utter enemy to the release of the same. So doth that Augustine which addeth his exhortation to these words by him repeated. But the other Augustine, which writeth upon the 103. Psalm saith, that God shall appear to them only, which are not cast into prison when they be departed out of this life, therefore I muse wherefore those words are here brought in. For Augustine (as I will show afterward) understandeth that prison for hell and eternal torments. Bernard although he be too young to depose in this cause, yet he speaketh not so much to avouch the pains of purgatory as to deny the remedy or remission of them: wherefore his testimony helpeth not purgatory so much one way, as it hindereth the Papists gain another way.

5 Here M. Allen like Thraso upon the stage alone, must show his vein in foolish insultation, as though he had overthrown a whole army of men, when he hath not killed a mouse: he lacketh but his Gnato to hold him up with ait aio, negat nego. For we must be examined, and M. Calvin, & M. Jewel must be posed, as though men had nothing to say, but that which M. Allen will imagine they can say. For my part I will not refuse to satisfy his demand. He will know and have us aposed, from whence we have that new meaning of our Saviors words, that he which is cast into prison for neglecting of reconciliation while he is in the way, is cast into hell, from whence he shall never come. As it is most plain by the very words of the text that our Savior Christ speaketh of judgment with all extremity, & without all mercy, so this sense hath sufficient witness of antiquity greater then that I think M. Allen dare except against them. First Chrysostom upon this place of Matthew understandeth the prison to be a temporal punishment of imprisonment in this life affirming that Christ doth not only threaten torments of hell fire after this life, but also citation, judgment and imprisonment. But that ancient doctor whose commentary of 54. homilies hath long gone under Chrysostom's name being by Erasmus judgment as ancient and well learned as he, hath these words upon that place. Si autem quam diu in via huius vitae es, non feceris pacem cum aduersario quem laesisti, sed sic inimicantes per mortem ieritis ante iudicem Christum, tradet te Christo, conuincens te reum in iuditio eius, & iudex tradet ministro: id est Angelo poenarum crudeli, & ill mittet te in carcerem Gehennae. But if thou shall • not have made peace with thine adversary whom thou hast offended, while thou art in the way of this life, but that you go on in your contention by death before Christ the judge, he shall deliver thee to Christ conuicting thee to be gilty in his judgment, and the judge shall deliver thee to the minister, that is to the cruel angel of torments, and he shall cast thee into the prison of hell fire.

Augustine de sermon Domini in monte lib. 1. Non exeas inde donec soluas nouissimum quadrantem, semper non exiturum esse quia semper soluit nouissimum quadrantem, cum sempiternas poenas terrenorum peccatorum luit. Thou shalt not come out until thou hast paid the uttermost farthing, he meaneth that he shall never come out, because he is always paying the last farthing, while he suffereth everlasting pains for his sins committed on the earth. S. Ieronym saith the sense of that place is manifest by that which goeth before and followeth, that the Lord exhorteth us to peace and concord, while we are in this life, and reproveth them that seek any other interpretations. Chromatius also an old writer upon this place of S. Matthew saith: Tradi ministro, &c. id est praeposito tormentorum, vt missus in carcerem Gehennae, debitas peccati poenas absoluat. To be delivered to the minister that is to the chief tormentor, that being cast into the prison of hell fire, he may pay the punishment due for his sin: again in the same place, à quo tradetur ministro, id est angelo tormentorum, mittendus in carcerem Gehennae. Vnde non dimittetur, nisi etiam nouissimum quadrantem reddat, id est omnem poenam debiti etiam vsque ad nouissimum peccatum exsoluat. By the judge he shall be d • liuered to the minister, that is to the angel of torments to be cast into the prison of hell fire. From whence he shall not be let go, except he pay even the last farthing, that is, he shall pay all the punishment that is due unto the last sin. Now let M. Allen say, if he dare, that these witnesses lack either age or credit, or else let him say tongue thou diddest lie when he said our interpretation of the Scripture was without all reason, likelihood, or authority.

But now to the appositions a word or two, though out of the compass of purgatory, but we must follow M. Allen whether so ever it pleaseth him to range. M. Allen what Flaccius or any such as he is hath said neither do I know neither do I regard, let them answer for them selves: But whereas you charge M. Calvin to expound the oil whereof S James speaketh cap. 5. for a medicinal salve or ointment, all rethoricke set aside, I say plainly you lie, for he utterly rejecteth that exposition, Interpreting that place of the grace and gift of the healing, which then was used in the Church with the outward sign of oil, as appeareth also Mark. 6. But as for them that interpret the first faith which those widows reject, that after they wax wanton against Christ, they will marry, &c. for the faith of Baptism and christianitye, they cannot follow a better doctor, then S. Paul him self in the same chapter, where he saith, that who so neglecteth to provide for his own family, hath denied the faith and is worse then an infidel? what faith is this? but the faith of Christianity, but yet he is more plain in these words, where he calleth it the first faith, for what is the first faith, but the faith of Baptism and Christianity, and as for M. Allens cavil, she that breaketh her faith of Baptism, shall be damned for marriage, is not worth a rush. For S. Paul saith not, she shall be damned for marriage, but because she hath rejected the first faith, that is such wanton young houswifes proceed so far, that at length they forsake widowhood, christianity and all. But if M. Allen were posed where he findeth this word 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 in the Scripture, used for a vow or promise made to God, perhaps he would answer he is no Graecian, then let him pose D. Hardinge, or some other with the same question, and with all let them show how the first faith can be expounded for the last vow, that a body hath made, if he have made more then one. For the Papists hold that these women made one vow in baptism, another of there widowhood. What so ever M. Jewel hath affirmed against the Papists, he hath so substantially and learnedly defended, that he need not to have any other man to answer for him. Therefore if it were not to choke M. Allen in his own collar, I would travail no farther in this question. The Church you say cannot err, and that company is the Church, which hath the Pope for their head, if therefore it can be proved, that the Pope and all they that take his part, have erred, it is sufficiently shown, that the Church may err. S. Augustine was in this error (as you will not deny) that the Sacrament of the body and blood of Christ was to be ministered unto infants, but of the same opinion he affirmeth, that Innocentius Bishop of Rome, and all the Church in his time was, therefore the Pope and all the Church did err. read Augustine contra Iulianum lib. 1. cap. 2. where he saith of Innocentius: Qui denique paruulos definiuit, nisi manducauerint carnem filij hominis vitam prorsus habere non posse, which hath defined that infantes, except they eat the flesh of the son of man, can have no life at all in them. And by eating the flesh of the son of mā, he meaneth eating the Sacrament of his flesh and blood, as it is evident to them that will bestow the reading of Augustine's discourse in that place.

CAP. XI.

1 YOu should break your old wont, if you did not in this chapter overthrow something, that you have built in that which went next going before. He hath labored all this while to prove, that purgatory hath ground in the Scriptures, now he confesseth franckely: that there hath been no text of scripture by him alleged to prove it, but it may have another meaning, and is sometime other wise construed of the fathers them selves. I will ask no more to prove that purgatory hath no ground in the word of God, which is not an ambiguous oracle, that may be drawn every way like a leaden rule, & hath but one true sense or meaning, which is the right meaning of the holy Ghost. For although diverse men may give diverse interpretations of some obscure and hard place, which all contain no impiety or falsehood, yet the spirit of God meaneth but one thing, and not what every man's wit and judgment will take it to be. True it is that so longe as the proportion of faith is kept, the Church beareth with them that give wrong interpretations, but the spirit of God which is in his Church, alloweth not wrong interpretations for right. And where as M. Allen alloweth all the interpretations that the fathers have made of the text by him alleged, as true, so long as they affirmed no error, he may by the same reason affirm, that contradictories are true, as in that saying of him that shall not come out until he have paid the uttermost farthing: some have expounded, that he shall be always punished, some that he shall not be always punished. One saith he shall never be released, another saith, he shall be released at length, how is it possible that both these interpretations can be true? and yet both these interpretations are found in some writers. But his suerest shift is, that the doctrine of purgatory, was a known truth in all ages. But this is the whole matter in controversy. For how can it be taken for a known truth in all ages, which hath none so suer ground in any text of scripture, that cā be wrested for it, but the same text may have another, and that a true interpretation. But of the antiquity of that error, we shall have better occasion hereafter to discuss in the second book, where this matter is of purpose entreated of. In the mean time, we will take that which is here granted so liberaly, that there is no text of scripture alleged for purgatory, but it may be otherwise truly interpreted, and not of purgatory, and that the fathers have so done by M. Allens own confession.

2 The sufficiency of Christ's passion is compted a light argument to M. Allen, but the weight thereof shall not withstanding bea • e down all the blasphemous doctrine of Popery. He saith thereby we cloke falsehood and licentious living. The Lord knoweth that he • claundereth us. Then he will frame our argument thereof as he list, but there in he doth us too much wrong. But thus we reason in deed: Christ hath paid the full price of our sins, therefore there is no parte of the price left to be paid by us. Christ hath fully satisfied for our sins, therefore their remaineth no satisfaction for us. Christ hath suffered for our iniquities, therefore we are healed by his stripes. And yet we neither exclude repentance, nor the true fructes thereof, which are good works, but rather we establish them. For Christ hath paid the price of their sins, that repent and believe in him, that follow his steppes, that walk in his precepts, but neither our repentance, nor our faith nor good works deserve anything, only the death of Christ is all our merit, and the only mean by which the same is applied unto us and we receive it, is our faith, thus the scripture teacheth, thus we believe. And as for that vain amplification of M. Allen, that the full force of Christ's death would sup up all sin, death, hell, and pain, we may see there by how Satan deludeth heretics to extend the benefits of Christ's death upon a fond supposition beyond the limittes of his will, & not to allow the same to stretch so far, as God's determination hath appoint • d it. Christ hath satisfied for our sins, yet we must make satisfaction our selves. Christ by his suffering is become a cause of salvation to all that believe in him, yet every man by good works must procure his own salvation. These are the enemies of the cross of Christ, which glory in their own shame whose ende is confusion.

3 Touching the word of Satisfaction, used by the old writers, I have shown before, that they used it not in that sense, which the Papists do. And I confess with M. Allen, that they not only knew, but also have expressed the valewe, of our redemption by Christ in such words, as it is not possible, that the Popish satisfaction cannot stand with them. Against the value of which redemption, if they have uttered anything, by the word of satisfaction or anything else, we may lawfully reject their authority, not only though they be doctors of the Church, but also if they were angels from heaven. There hearty bewailing of their sins, and fructes of true repentance, that they shown, not to justify them selves thereby, but to humble them selves before God, and to cause their light to shine to his glory, we pray God we may follow, not to set up our righteousness, but to the praise of his name.

CAP. XII.

AFter the exhortation to your fellow Papists to stand in awe of purgatory, you bring in the meditation of Bernard for fear of the fire thereof. If you mean thereby to terrify your fellow Papists, it is somewhat, for you know he is a very late writer, and therefore his authority with us is of small accompt in such cases, as he followeth the common error of his time. I would both you & your fellows not for fear of temporal pains, but either for love of God, or fear of eternal damnation, would leave your blasphemous heresies, contrary to God • word, your sclaundering, persecuting, and murthering of God's Saints, and reforming your life after the rule of God's Gospel, would take hold of Christ by faith, to your eternal health, and so sorrow for your sins, that you might rejoice always, as the children of God do. The saying of Emissenus proveth no fear of purgatory, but of God's judgment unto condemnation prevented by repentance.

2 That Ambrose that writ the preparatory to mass, might be afferd of purgatory, & of tormēting by devils also, as his words are. But Ambrose of Millayne wrate no such book. It is sufficient for Papists, that every unlearned asse may entitle his fantasies to some ancient writer, and then they must be authentical. But draff is good enough for swine. As for that Ambrose that wrote upon the 118. psalm, showeth a fear of hell, if God should deal with him according to his justice, but by the grace and mercy of God, which is dispensed by his ministers, he recovereth himself being assured that all they that trust in him, shall not be confounded. M. Allen translateth per ministerium sacerdotij, for my ministry and priesthood sake, as though he joined his priesthood with the grace of Christ. I had rather refer it to the priesthood of Christ, but that I have given the true meaning of his words before.

3 Concerning Augustine we have answered before, that as that error of purgatory, was somewhat risely budded up in his time, so he seemeth not always to be clear of it, although in some places he is not so certain of it, but that he affirmeth it may be inquired of, and peradventure shall be found to be so, peradventure it shall still remain hid or unknown.

4 Now followeth a large and needless apology of visions and revelations, the doctrine of which is briefly and plainly set forth in the word of God, what so ever is consonant to the word of God is to be received, that which is not agreeable therewith, is to be detested, although not a man from purgatory, but an angel from heaven were the bringer of it. Then seeing the doctrine of purgatory is blasphemous against the merits of Christ's death, though all those fables of visions that are feigned to defend it were true stories, yet are we nothing moved with them. I pass over the impudency of this man, which is not ashamed to compare so many thousand fables, or illusions of Satan, as are reported to the maintaining of purgatory: to the revelation of S. Paul and the Apocalypse of S. John, or the appering of Moses and Elias with Christ. They may be in deed a great number of them not unlike to that spirit of Samuel which was raised by the witche, which as Augustine affirmeth, and M. Allen dare not simply deny, was the spirit of the Devil him self.

5 The tales that you tell out of Gregory and Bede, may be heard as they are told, and believed as they deserve, but that you make the opinion of purgatory such an article of faith, that no article with more force of the spirit, nor with more grave authority was set forth sense the beginning of Christian religion (and yet never taught in the scripture) that is by no means to be borne with all. If Satan hath labored to plant that error, which is most blasphemous against Christ, and occasion of most licentious wickedness in all them that profess Christ and believe it, if Satan (I say) hath bent all his force to plant such an error, by which his kingdom is so much aduaunsed, no wise man can marvel. Of like leaven it is that you affirm. That never nation was converted to the faith but it had purgatory taught by word and confirmed by miracle. O impudent affirmer. Of so many nations as S. Luke recordeth in the Acts of the Apostles to have been converted to the faith name one, unto which you can prove that purgatory was taught either by word or miracle. But to be sure, you name all even of the primitive Church, when that abundant flood of faith was spread over all countries. But when the proof cometh, you leap but 600. years from Christ, to Gregory's dialogues, from which time I will not deny but you may have great store of such stuff, as you have miracles now in Flaunders of the honest woman of the old Baylye in London, and such like.

6 Here is an exhortation unto Papists, first to the priests that they will show the fructe of this doctrine in their conversation. For my parte, • am persuaded if fear of eternal torments in Hell, that God threateneth by his scriptures, will not terrify them, the feigned pains of purgatory which they can by their own Masses and other like merits avoid, will not restrain them. The lay men are exhorted to submit them selves to the priests, who have such an ample commission, that they may both pardon and punish sin, even as Christ him self did upon earth. But what availeth this submission? when the ignorant or negligent priest, that weigheth not the penance, in even balance with the offense, doth not by his absolution or pardonning take away one hours torments of purgatory as both M. Allen him self in effect confesseth, and the Master of the sentence also teacheth: unto whom M. Allen hath been so good a scholar, that he hath borrowed of him not only his judgment, but in diverse places his very words also he hath translated.

CAP. XIII.

1 THis is a very needless discourse, unless it were to make up a browen doosen of chapters, to inquire of the nature or condition of purgatory fire &c. and then to be able to determine nothing of it. If we shall give credit to those visions, revelations, and apparitions, which M. Allen defended so pithily in the last Chapter before, there is no man knoweth his own house, better thē we may know every corner of purgatory, the place, the length, the breadth, the depth, the fire, the water, the burning, the scalding, the broiling, the frying, the whipping, the hanging, &c. At the least wise, if M. Allen would have taken so much foolish pains, as to have translated out of that worshipful author which he citeth, that which he hath written of the quality and condition of the pains of purgatory, he migh • have enlarged this chapter by two or three leaves. That beastly asse and shameless counterfector, that calleth him self Cyrillus (in the devils name) Bishop of Jerusalem, writing to such an Augustine as he was a Cyril, of the miracles of S. Ieronym, maketh a large discourse of the pains of hell and purgatory, as he learned of Eusebius and of 3. dead men whom Ieronym caused to be restored to life after he had shown them the pains of purgatory and hell, and this to confute the error of them that denied purgatory, I would marvel surely whether impudency in him that invented that fable, and set it out under the name of Cyrillus were greater then in M. Allen that allegeth his name & authority as antique & authentical, saving that, that counterfecter played the fool in the night, but Allen bringeth him forth in the broad day light.

2 Here we are taught what the difference is between the pains of hell and purgatory. This difference is not in quality nor quantity, but in respect of continuance, and of the persons. The one is eternal, the other temporal, they that are in one, are desperate and impatient, the other in hope and patience without sin or danger of sinning. Surely if those tales were true, that are told of them that are in purgatory, there appeared in some but small patience. One that was promised by an Angel that he should tarry but 3. days in purgatory, after he had been there but one day, told the Angel to his face, that he was no Angel but a deceiver, affirming that he had been there many years. A monk that died without absolution in the absence of the Abbot, after his death was absolved, and enjoined for penance to tarry in purgatory until his body were buried, whereat he cried so horribly, that his voice was heard all over the abbey, saying, O unmerciful man, hast thou commanded me to tarry so long in purgatory? A Bishop suspēded a priest for saying every day mass of requiem, but as the same Prelate went over a churchyard, the dead arose every man with such tools as they occupied in their life, threatening him, that he should die for it, he did not restore them their soul priest. Again one that promised his brother to say mass for him immediately after his death, made hast to perform his promise, as soon as the breath was out of his hody: but when mass was done his brother appeared to him saying, O unfaithful brother, thou hast well deserved the curse of God for me, thou hast let me lie in torments these 20 years, and neither thou nor any of my brethren would vouchsafe to say one mass for me. If these and such like narrations, of which the popish homilies and other writings are crammed full, were true revelations, there were small patience, mekenes, or love, in some of the purgatory penitentionaries. Yet M. Allen saith: these are the inferior partes, which boweth their knee and reverenceth the name of Jesus, as the Apostle saith Philip. 2. For those that be in the deep hell, cannot praise nor confess his blessed name as the Prophet saith: Although that which David saith, be true of the damned spirits, yet he speaketh generally of all them that are dead, which cannot praise God in his Church as they do that are alive. But S. Paul to the Philip. speaketh not of any willing obedience, or joyful confession of them that be in hell, but of that which is due to the majesty of Christ, and enforced even from his enemies. For if none should bow to Christ but they that honor him willingly, and praise his holy name cheerfully, this text should not be verified of so many 1000. Turks, Jews and Infidels, that now blaspheme his holy name, but in the day of judgment, unto which time the perfect accomplishment of this prophecy is referred, they with all the devils in hell, shall be brought on their knees and acknowledge that Jesus is the Lord to the glory of God and their eternal confusion. And even now already S. James teacheth that the devils do tremble. But if only the souls in purgatory were meant by them that are under the earth, at the last day when Christ shall have his chief glory, and purgatory as the Papists confess, shall be abolished, then there should be none in the infernal partes, that should bow unto Jesus and acknowledge his glorious majesty according to the prophecy of Isaiah which S. Paul expoundeth of the last judgment. Rom. 14. And therefore although M. Allens affirmation of godly men to have been in the lower partes from the beginning of the world unto the end of the same, were true, as it is most false, yet it would not answer the verity of the prophecy, when at that time there should be none, in which time the prophecy should chiefly be fulfilled, but of what forehead, or mouth doth this proceed? that he affirmeth that Abraham's bosom may appear by Scripture to have been in the lower rooms, though separate from hell His reason seemeth to be, because all places of punishment after this life be in Scripture called Inferna, that is, hell or the lowest places. The Scripture teacheth that Abraham's bosom was a place of comfort, separate from hell, not with a small border, like the popish limbus, but with an infinite distance 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 from whence the rich glutton looking up saw Lazarus a far of in blessed estate, when he him self was in torments. But hereof I have spoken sufficiently before.

3 Once again he desireth Catholics not to doubt of this doctrine, but to prevent the pain appointed by their angry father, with patient receiving the chastisement of their kind mother, whose meek wande in this life, they were better to sustain, then the heavy scourge of their iustely moved father after this life. In this proper antithesis, the kindness of the mother, is preferred before the anger of the father: yea the mercy of the mother, is commended above the justice of the father. It appeareth by this, that the Papists understand not what they say, when they call God father, who taketh unto him that name, to declare his mercy toward us and not his justice, his love and not his wrath, to reward us, and not to punish us, who though he chastise his children for a moment, yet doth he, not exact pains according to the measure of his justice. As for that Prosopopaeia of the mother, opposing her to the father, in word is more rethoricall, then Christian in deed, and because it is unfit for the matter, it is more of garrulity then of eloquence. The rest of the exhortations are such as we have heard before, to accept penance humbly, to add to the penance zeleously, to merit while time serveth diligently, &c.

4 The conclusion hath an exhortation to those whom he termeth deceived with the Maremaides song, to consider the weight of his arguments, whereof he maketh a short recapitulation. First if God have punished his dearest children, not only in this life, but also after this life, then let purgatory have place again: we are content, but until it may be proved out of the word of God, that he hath punished his children after this life, we are not bound by this argument. Secondly if the discipline of the Church, the exercise of the godly, the doctrine of all learned fathers that have preached or done penance, hath been for the avoiding of purgatory, then receive purgatory again. But if the ende of godly discipline, be either to heal the curable by repentance in this life, or to separate the incurable from infecting the sound, if the fructes of repentance and good works of the godly are to be referred, to the testifying of their repentance, and their faith, and to the glorifying of God, if the doctrine of all the godly, that have preached and done penance according to the word of God, have been to the same ends, we may not yet give place to admit purgatory. Thirdly if the word of God make expressly for purgatory, we would not for our lives deny it, nor doubt of it, but if the word of God do neither expressly nor by any probable collection allow, but manifestly condemn it, as blasphemous against the passion of Christ: then must we still not only exclude it from our belief, but also abhor it from our heart. Forthly if all learned men without exception, believed and feared purgatory, we will also believe it and fear it, but until that may be proved, or that any godly learned ever knew of it for 200. years after Christ, we must crave pardon of M. Allen at the least wise to suspend our judgment. Fifthly if it agree with good reason, which agreeth with the word of God, it were reason we should receive it, but we account no reason good that is not consonant to the truth, and therefore if it cannot be won by Scripture, we will not yield for any reason. Six • lie if it set forth the justice of God to answer the hatred of sin as God hath appointed, we refuse it not, but if it be blasphemous both against the righteousness of God and satisfaction for our sins answered in the sufferings of Christ, and against his unspeakable mercies, in providing such a wonderful mean of so perfect redemption, we defy it and the maintainers of it. Seventhly, if it raise the fear of God in man's heart, such as God alloweth, we must needs accept it, but if it raise none but a slavish and that a vain fear of torment, and diminisheth the love of God's goodness and mercy, & excludeth the peace of conscience, there is no remedy but we must still reject it. If it be the bane of proud presumption, we have cause to think well of it: but if it be the provocation of devilish presumption, to ascribe more to our merits then to the mercy of God, we acknowledge that it proceedeth from the prince of pride and presumption against God. If it were the mother of meekness, obedience, devotion and of all Christian conditions, we were to blame if we would not entertain it. But if it be the father of fables and false worship of God, the instrument of infidelity, and sleep of security, which are sworn enemies of all Christian religion, we leave it to Papists, deluded with the errors of Antichrist, and nothing convenient for the disciples and members of Christ, whose pain is their purgatory, whose suffering is their satisfaction, whose merittes are their reward, which are vessels of God's mercy ordained to the praise of his glory.

5 Ask your own conscience M. Allen whether you have not miserably wrested the Scriptures yourself. And let all reasonable men answer whether such texts of Scriptures as you have wrested out of the true sense, I have not wrested out of your hands. And that not by shameful denial of the Doctors, but even by the testimony & exposition of the doctors them selves, with force of matter, rather, then flow of words, with plain meaning rather then with deceitful dealing. And whereas you boast yourself to be a reporter of antiquity, you have shown yourself to be a fauorer of forgery and a corrupter of antiquity. As for the gracious gifts, and conceit of comfort that you brag of in your counterfeit Church of hypocrites and sclaunderous Synagoges of Satan, how so ever you paint it out, with glorious terms, we give most humble & hearty thanks to the infinite goodness of God, which hath given his holy spirit into our hearts, with perfect assurance of his favor everlasting, and hath so furnished his servants with such gifts as he hath thought sufficient for the setting forth of his praise in his Church upon earth, that we need not desire any other gifts or comfort out of his family, but only the continuance and increase of the same, which we have already in his own house, until we shall be translated from this mortal and corruptible state, to the eternal and incorruptible glory, which is laid up in heaven, for all them that wait for the appearing of the glorious God our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, to whom be all honor and dominion both now and evermore. Amen.

THE SECOND BOOKE

TO THE PREFACE.

1 Y Ou have tarried longer in consideratiō of God's justice, then is agreeable to the matter of his mercy, which is the death of his only son our Lord and Savior Christ. And now you will mollyfie the hardness of that handling, with the sory comfort of your unchristian cause. Wherein you have more regard to the heating of your own harthe, then to the cooling of the selye souls, to kindle a good fire in your own kitchen, then to quench the flambes of purgatory. But as I have noted before, that you have hitherto kept this order for the most parte, to plant one thing in one chapter, and then to pull it up by the roots in the next, so you have not forgotten yourself in the division of your books. But that the latter should be a sufficient confutation of the former, or else the former a manifest excluding of the latter. For if the justice of God doth so necessarily require a punishment for sins remitted, that the same could not be satisfied, no not by that only sacrifice, which the son of God offered once for all, on the altar of the cross: it is a cold comfort that a careful conscience can receive, that the same should be done by his merits, or your Masses, which was not done by the blood of Christ Yet now you will talk how the fiery sword may be turned away, surely if the fiery and shaking sword that was set to exclude man from Paradise, was not taken away by the death of Christ, when he opened Paradise, yea the kingdom of heaven whereof Paradise was but a sacrament, unto all believers, I meruaill how either the penitent these had passage into Paradise, or what engines you Papists have to turn it away, which he had not. The words of Damascene if they were not applied (as you say they are) to purgatory pains and remedies of the same, were true of God's justice and his mercy, but as his age is to young, so his authority is to light, to control the truth of the word of God, or the practice of the first & purest Church, which knew no purgatory, nor prayers for the dead. But if our sins forgiven were never so grievous, &c. what mad man would ever write thus? Even such a one as might be allowed to speak thus: if black were never so black before it were clean taken away and perfect white placed in the steed, yet when white is white, it is white. But M. Allen will not allow that the coullor of our sins is clean taken away and a contrary coullor of righteousness set upon us, but that sins forgiven, be but half forgiven, the gilte taken away, the punishment due for the gilte, still remaining. And this one half of forgiveness, is but granted in words, and denied in deed. For if the gilte of our sins be clean taken away from us, and laid upon the person of Christ, and the righteousness of Christ is communicated unto us, what is there left in us that God of his goodness can hate or of his justice can punish? So it is but for a fashion, that the papists grant any parte of our sins forgiven, when they will have us make satisfaction for them our selves. But where as M. Allen is out of measure prodigal in promising releiffe and release of purgatory pains to them whose sins were never so grievous, their vicious life wasted in idle wealth, the space of penance and opportunity of working neglected in time, prevented by sudden death &c: rehersing so many means of mitigation, as sometime the blood of Christ, the residew of his merits, the cry of the mother Church, the memory of the Mass, the merits of all Saints, the prayers of the faithful and works of the charitable: All this notwithstanding take heed you poor Papists, that you give no credit to these flattering words. For it is the opinion of all the old writers, that do allow any of these things, to profit men after their death, and concluded by the Master of the Sentence, and aduouched by Allen him self afterward chapt. 7. that no man can receive benefit after his departure, by any work or will of the living, but he that in his life deserved the same, neither shall anything work upon him more or less, but according to his own deserving in this life. Trust not therefore in these sophistical vanities, which are contrary one to another, but embrace the uniform & undoubted doctrine of God's word, which teacheth repentance, faith, justification, and salvation, not with curious questions to trouble your brains, but with perfect conclusions to quiet your conscience, not suffering you to sleep in security upon hope of help after your death, but charging you to show the force of mortification and fruictes of faith while you are alive. Not puffing up your fantasy with pride of your own merits, but teaching you to ascribe all praise to God's glorious grace, and infinite mercy.

2 The cruel adversary of mankind, and enuyor of God's glory, invented Purgatory to deface the merits of Christ's death, and to blemish the only means of man's, eternal life, which when he could not with any seemly coullor establish, by the authority of the holy Scriptures, the only testimony of his word and will revealed and confirmed by his holy Spirit, he hath invented feigned fables and devilish illusions to deceive the minds of them whom he had inclined unto superstition, and not been ashamed to match them in credit and estimation with the very word of God it self. As appeareth by this scribe of Satan, which nameth the scriptures for a simple show, but by and by addeth other testimonies of God's word, beside the scriptures inspired by God: whereby he maketh equivalent, those false revelations raised up from Hell, with the inspiratiō of the holy Ghost which hath brought the truth from heaven. But now cometh in the order of this deuillyshe horror.

3 You shall never prove by authority of God's word that sins not repented in this life, shall be pardoned after this life, where there is no repentance profitable, nor yet any debt paid but by them that pay it eternally in perpetual torments.

4 When you can prove either by doctrine, or example agreeable to doctrine of the canonical Scriptures, that anything profiteth the souls departed that be not in happy state, we will believe it.

5 You are not able to bring one authentical writer, that within one 100 years and more after Christ, hath allowed prayer for the dead, or any point of purgatory.

6 You shall not prove that either in public or private prayers, the dead were commended otherwise then by way of thanks giving for their departure, or that any suffrages or sacrifice was offered for them by the Apostles or their lawful successors, or many years after the Apostles times.

7 You shall show no heretic that denied your doctrine, but I will show you other heretics before him that allowed it.

8 How vain your brag is of general counsels, it appeareth by this, that with in fouretene hundredth years after Christ, you can find none to serve your turn, until you come to the councils Florins and Trent, whereof the one was held in our grandfathers days, the other within these 20. years, your provincial councils shall be answered by as good provincial councils as they are. And that which I have to say in confutation of your heresy, shall be no worse then the very word of God it self, which is better then y ^e consent of all the world against it. And although the custom of praying for the dead, be an ancient error, so that few of the latter writers there are, but they show them selves to be infected therewith, yet hath it not such an universal consent of all writers, but that I shall be able by God's grace to show that the most ancient and nearest to the Apostles time, received it not, and that they which of later time admitted it, had neither any ground out of the Scriptures to warrant their doing, nor any certainty of faith to assure their conscience, which when it is found in the ende, as it is now said in the beginning, your arrogant boasting and impudent lying together with the falsehood of your opinions, shall be manifest to all men.

CAP. I.

1 YOu were as good to kindle a fire out of y • e and snow, as to go about to frame your fiery forge of purgatory out of this place. The meaning of our Savior Christ is so plain, & his words so express, that no reasonable man can gather any error out of them. For undoubtedly the error of purgatory was first invented before this place was drawn unto it. So is there no heresy so absurd, which Satan putteth into the head of wicked men, but it may find some sound of words in so many books of the holy Scriptures, that by perverse wit may be wrested unto it. But the doctrine of God's truth and all articles of our belief, are plainly taught in the Scripture, either by manifest words, or by necessary conclusion and argument, which by no subtlety of Satā or his instruments, may be avoided or deluded. And this is the difference between heresy and truth, when they both apeale to the authorities of the Scripture. Truth as she hath her foundation in the Scriptures, and in them is learned, so hath she perpetual confirmation in the same, and nothing contrary unto her. But heresy as she is invented in man's head, so she seeketh confirmation in the reason and authority of man, which because they have not full credit with them that profess religion, without the authority of God's word, at length whē it is fully shaped, in the shop of man's brain, then it is brought to the Scripture, to see if it can find any color, by any phrase of words wrested from the meaning, or by any vain collection, that hath no force of necessary conclusion, being content to have but only a cold claim unto the authority of Scripture, although it have the whole scope and purpose of the holy Ghost, yea often times also manifest words against it, which difference as it may be found in all heresies, so in none more notably, then in this error of purgatory. Consider what texts of holy Scripture are alleged for it, and you shall see they cannot bring one, out of which any necessary argument may be framed to prove their cause, or which hath not by learned interpretors of the old time been otherwise expounded then of their cause. As in the text here alleged out of S. Matt. cap. 12. who so ever shall speak blasphemy against the holy ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world nor in the world to come. If the sense were not plain of it self, that he which so sinneth shall not obtain forgiveness in this life, nor be absolved in the last judgment: yet the other Evangelists do plainly expound the meaning. S. Luke saith simply, he shall not be forgiven. S. Mark saith he hath no remission forever, but is guilty of everlasting judgment. Neuertheles behold what a wrangling M. Allen maketh about the interpretation of these words. But I will offer him fair play, he is an ancient master of art, & since he writ this book, he hath added ten years to his study of divinity, in which space he might have been a doctor of the same faculty, let him with all the divinity that ever he studied, or with all the arts that ever he professed, make a true syllogism in form and matter, out of this authority, to prove that God forgiveth sins after this life, which are not remitted in this life, and I will confess the doctrine of purgatory with him, which otherwise I would not do to win all the patrimony of S. Peter that the Pope claymeth in Italy: but until such time as we may obtain a good argument, let us consider such as we have. He signifieth (saith M. Allen) that a man in some case, might perhaps not speed of a pardon in this life, & yet may obtain it in the next: when the matter goeth by perhaps, it is good to beware of after claps, why M. Allen, what sins are those of which a man may perhaps not speed of a pardon in this life, and yet obtain it after this life? If they be truly repented in this life, we have a warrant of God's own mouth without, your perhaps, that in the same hour they shall be remitted. Ezech. 18. & 33. But if they be not repented, where is your warrant that ever they shall be remitted. But I ask again, what sins are those that perhapps may miss of a pardon in this life, and obtain it after this life? by all likelihood they must be some great sins, that perhapps may not speed of a pardon here, and yet find it afterward. There is no man would think otherwise, by these words, nor by the words of Christ, if he understood them so, that some sins might be forgiven after this life, but whē all cometh to all. The Master of the Sentence and Gregory before him, and M. Allen him self would alowe no sins to be forgiven after this life, but very small and light offenses. How be it it is plain, that these words (neither in the world to come) are added by way of amplification: for it is the purpose of our Savior Christ, to set forth to the uttermost, the heynousnesse of blasphemy against the holy Ghost, so that if he had meant that any sins might be remitted after this life, that were not pardoned after this life, he should have meant the greater and not the lesser, for less sins be sooner pardoned and the pardon of greater more hardly obtained. But mark the equity of M. Allen, the horrible blasphemer for all the vehemency of Christ's words, by M. Allens judgment is but in a manner discharged of hope of remission, as though he were not simply and altogether excluded. And the light offender is turned over to purgatory, for his remission: yet M. Allen will stand upon the form & phrase of words, not knowing, that this world is taken for all the time that is unto the ende thereof, and the world to come, not for the state or time of them that are departed unto the judgment, but for the time of eternitye after the ende of this world, or else the words of Christ in Matthew should not be equivalent with the words in Mark, he shall be guilty of everlasting judgment or condemnation, which the old interpretor calleth eternal offense. The like form or phrase of words is used by S. Paul to the Ephesians cap. 1. that Christ is exalted above every name that is named, not only in this world but also in the world to come: by which words he meaneth the supreme and everlasting kingdom of Christ, which extendeth unto all eternity. But if a contentious person like to the Valentiniane heretics, or such like, would invent monstrous names as those heretics did, and prove by this place that there are names named in the world to come, that are not named in this world, should he not have as good ground out of this place as the Papists have of the other?

2 M. Allen in his conscience knoweth, that he hath no ground in the authority of God's word, and therefore he flieth to the authority of man. But that he might seem to be driven perforce to that where unto he doth come most willingly, he pretendeth a fond excuse, because he hath to do with such fickle marchaunts, as will not stick to break boldly the bands of evident Scriptures. But he knoweth in his conscience that he hath no authority of Scripture to charge us, for if he thought we would break the bonds of God's word, he might well think, we would not be holden by the authority of men's writing, and those of the latter sort, six hundredth years after Christ, the eldest. For Augustine make • h as little for them, as he doth against us. Gregory and Bernard, whereunto he addeth Bede, are of opinion that sins not remitted in this world, may be remitted in the world • o come, but how happeneth it, that Chrys • stome and Ieronym which both interpreted that place, could gather no such matter, although they otherwise allowed prayer for the dead? The reason must needs be, because the error of purgatory growing so much the stronger, as it was nearer to the full revelation of Antichrist, Gregory and Bede sought not the true meaning of Christ in this Scripture, but the confirmation of their pausible error. M. Allen thinketh we must be sore pressed with the authority of Gregory, because we m • slike not his authority, where he inveigheth against the supremacy of one Bishop above all other, or where so ever he agreeth with the truth. But he must be once again admonished, that we are bound to no man's authority, no longer then he followeth the authority of God's word And therefore though Gregory were the last of all the Romish Bishops, in whom was any spark of goodness, because Boniface his successor and so all the rest, by Gregoryes own judgment & prophecy were all Antichrists: yet is not all that Gregory writ, of equal authority with the word of God, without authority whereof, we believe not an Angel from heaven, as I have often shown, much less a Bishop of Rome.

3 S. Augustine is much beholding to you, that you give men to wit, that when he was wrangled withal by any misbeleuer, he had occasion to wrest the Scripture, otherwise then the words imported, so you judge of him, because he would not for your pleasure, expound the fire of trial. 1. Cor. 3. For your fire of purgatory. But concerning this testimony of Augustine, it maketh not so much against us, but it maketh as little for you. For if you have translated his words according to his meaning, (as you have not according to his words) he understandeth by this place remission of the pains, and not of the sins, which helpeth you nothing to that which you have taken in hand to prove, that sins are forgiven after this life. And so he seemeth to say in the 13. chapter of the same book. Non autem omnes veniunt in sempiternas poenas, quae post illud iudiciū his sunt futurae, qui post mortem sustinent temporales, nam quibusdam quod in isto non remittitur, remitti in futuro saeculo, id est ne futuri saeculi aeterno supplicio puniantur iam ante dixi. All they come not into everlasting pains which after that judgment shall be to them, that after death suffer temporal pains, for I have said already, that unto some, that which is not remitted in this world, is remitted in the world to come, that is, that they should not be punished in the world to come. In these words he speaketh of release of pains but not of forgiveness of sins. But in the place by you alleged, if the words be truly translated according to the discourse of that chapter, he affirmeth, that after the resurrection & those pains which the spirits of the dead do suffer, there shall be some upon whom mercy shall be bestowed, so that they shall not be cast into eternal fire, &c. So that Augustine in this place, speaketh not of such sins as are remitted in purgatory, but of such persons as are forgiven in the last judgment, when purgatory is ended. Wherefore though Augustine erred in this place, yet he erred from your cause. And whereas you affirm in the margent, that sometime God's justice is answered fully by the pain of the party: you are contrary to the rest of your family, for they hold that the general prayers and sacrifices of your mother Church do help them. Yea the master of the sentence holdeth, that a poor man having equal merits with a rich man, though there be no special prayers, masses, fasting or alms done for him, is holpen as well by the common alms and prayers, as the rich man for whom special prayers and large alms are done. lib. 4. dist. 45. For otherwise the opinion of merits could not stand. And unless M. Allen think that all such masses and prayers in which the dead are generally commended be unprofitable, his proposition cannot stand by his own learning.

CAP. II.

1 IF you ask me by what means they may be releued, whom the blood of Christ hath not purged, from all their sins, surely I must answer you plainly as I have learned in the scripture, that there is no name given under heaven, by which they may be helped, which are not helped by Christ's death Act. 4. But you have merits of men, to help the merits of Christ. O blasphemy! they that cannot be justified by their own merits, by the virtue of them, shall help to justify other. But this is worthy to be noted, that they which are in purgatory, cannot by any motion of mind, attain more mercy, then their life past deserved. Therefore faith either is not in them, or else p • ofitteth them nothing, for that is a notable motion of the mind. Then the merits of other men must profit without faith or else they profit them not all. But without faith it is not possible that they should profit them, for as much as without faith it is not possible to please God, Heb. 13. therefore it is not possible that other men's works alive should profit them that are d • ad. But we have another shift sought out to serve them, that is the communion of Saints. What manner of communion is that which is without faith? But because M. Allen bringeth in the communion of saints. I must show where in the same consisteth. The communion of saints is considered either of the whole body of the church, or else of the Church militant here on earth. The communion of the whole body, is the participation of life and all other offices of life, that every member and the whole body hath of the head, as S. Paul teacheth plainly Ephes. 4. The communion of saints here on earth, as it is a pa • te of the whole communion, so the whole Virtue cometh also from the head, and the members have but the administration thereof, according to the measure and office of everyone. So that when we speak of the universal Church, we believe that all the elect of God are one mystical body, that so liveth by Christ, that it is not possible for any one member thereof to perish: when we speak of the communication of the faithful hear on earth, we mean the dispensation of the grace and gifts of God, which as everyone hath received of God, so of charity he is bound to employ the same, to the profit of his fellow members here on earth: what place is here to merit for them that are dead, when one cannot merit for another that is alive, no not for him self, but every man hath his worthiness of Christ: this is the doctrine of the scripture: the other participation of merittes is a mere devise of men, having no foundation in the word of God, so that M. Allen him self cannot vouch so much as one text of scripture to warranty, where in he can have any coullor for such communion of merits. For that which S. Paul writeth 1. Cor. 12. is manifestly understood of the mutual offices of love, whereby one member hath compassion with another, & by no means teacheth either the estate of the dead, or the merittes of the living. Of like credit it is, that he so constantly affirmeth that the Saints in heaven pray for their fellows beneth, and that they below pray for the help of the Saints above: moreover that Christ our head by whose blood the society standeth, will have no work nor way of salvation that is not common to the whole body in general, and particularly profitable to supply the need of any parte thereof. Here you see by a plain distribution that M. Allen will have other works and ways of salvation, beside the blood of Christ. These things being only affirmed and not proved by the authority of Scriptures, although I might confute at large by the same, yet it shall suffice to answer with that ancient father: That which hath no authority in the Scriptures, is as easily denied as it is affirmed. But it is a world to see what a compass you fetch, to bring in the Mass, for one of the special means. It was wont to be a sacrifice propitiatory both for the quick and the dead, now you have nicer terms for it. Now: it is the sacrifice of the Church. By whom instituted I pray you? which by the will of the author: if you make God the author, where have you one syllable in the Scripture to declare his will? but that which followeth passeth: By the likeness of the exemplar (as in deed being in another manner the very self same.) What is this that I hear? doth the Mass aueyle because it is like the exemplar? if you mean the sacrifice of Christ his passion to be the examplar, the mass is as like it as an apple is like an oyster, for all the apish pageantes that be played in it. We read in the Scriptures, that all the sacrifices of the old law, with the tabernacle, were made conformable to the exemplar and pattern that was shown unto Moses which was Christ Exod. 25. Heb. 8. Act. 7. But that there should be anymore shadows, or resemblaunces, when the body and substance it self is come, it is contrary to the whole scope of the Epistle to the Hebrews. M. Allen hath a shift for that, saying it is the very self same in another manner. But he is so deep in divinity, that he forgetteth his first principles of logic. For every boy in Oxford can tell him, that those things which be like, cannot be the same. If therefore the Mass be like the sacrifice of Christ, then is it not the sacrifice of Christ it self. Again the exemplar and the example be proper relatives, therefore if the sacrifice of Christ be the exemplar whereof the Mass is the example, the Mass cannot be the sacrifice of Christ. Neither will it help, that he saith, It is the self same in another manner, so long as the same respect remaineth. But let him make of his Mass what he can, the Church of God instructed by God's word receiveth no more sacrifices propitiatory, but only the sacrifice of Christ his death, which was offered by no other, but by him self, and that once for all. Seeing that by one oblation he hath made perfect forever, those that are sanctified: Hebr. 10.

2 When all authority out of God's word faileth you, whereby you should prove that the souls departed receive benefit by the merits of the living, you fly to the authority of men. And fi • st Augustine must prove that the godly departed are not separated from the Church, because memory of them is made at the altar. We nothing doubt, but that the souls of the godly departed, remain still in the body of Christ which is his church, but we ground upon better authority then the authority of Augustine, and upon better proof then the reason which he allegeth, or else we might not be so certain of it as we are.

And to the similitude of Athanasius which you note to be Quaest. ad Ant. 34. I answer that in the place by you noted there is no such word nor any of his questions ad Antiochum that I can find, where so ever you had it. Although that book of questions is easily to be seen of all men and confessed of Nannus one of your own side to be none of Athanasius doing: we say that first it must be proved that the souls departed receive benefit by masses, and then we shall not strive for the manner how: but man's authority is to weak to carry away so weighty a matter. And therefore I will be as bold with you as Augustine was with the Donatists de pastoribus cap. 8. Auferantur chartae humanae sonent voces diuinae. Ede mihi vnam Scripturam pro parte Donati. Let men's papers be removed & let the voices of God sound, show me one Scripture for Donatus side, even so M. Allen I will not stick to urge you when you lean wholly to the authority of men. Away with men's writings, let God's word be heard from you, show me but one Scripture, to prove all that you have said in this chapter of the merits of the living to profit the dead,

3 Here but that you have a pleasure to spew out your pestilent poison against that noble light of God's Church M. Calvin, is nothing that need any such exclamation which you make with open mouth, as though Calvin denied the communion of Saints, which he doth most constantly affirm even in the same place out of which you have rent those words that you so bite and tear with your venomous teeth. lib. 3. cap. 20. sect. 24. where he speaketh against invocation of Saints, who being in rest with God (he saith) are not to be drawn by the prayers, unto earthly cares of our necessities, which either they know not, or they cannot help. For that office of charity which the godly do exercise in this life by praying one for another, is grounded upon the commandment of God and upon his promise, which two things are the chief to be considered in prayer. But all these reasons concern not the dead, whom whē the Lord hath removed from our company, he hath left us no intermeddling with them, nor them with us, so far as we can conceive by any conjectures. These be Calvin's words by which he meaneth, that although the affection of charity remain in the dead, yet it is not shown by looking to our earthly necessities, which they know are subject to the providence of God. Moreover they have not (that we know by the Scripture) any commandment or promise to cause them to pray for us, neither have we any to pray to them. And this is that intermeddling which Calvin denieth to be between the dead & the living, namely such as is between them that are living among them selves. As for the exhortation of him that wrote to his brother in the desert, what so ever he was or how long so ever it be since he wrote, because it hath not authority in the word of God, I weigh it as the words of a man, whose credit in divine matters, is nothing without the word of God.

CAP. III.

1 WE have all this while called for authority of the scripture, now we shall have scripture I trow, or else M. Allen shall miss of his purpose Sacrifice, alms, prayers, commended by scripture, to be means to help the souls in purgatory. And the scripture is written. 2. Machab. 12. Prothesauro carbones: we have found coles in the steed of treasure. Is this all the scripture we are like to have? this hath been answered of old to be no holy nor canonical scripture, and that by many reasons. First because it containeth matter contrary to the undoubted word of God. I omit this matter in controversy in the 14. chap. the author of the book commendeth one Razis for killing him self, which is contrary to the word of God. Wherefore M. Allen by authority of this book, & the example of a good man Razis may as well conclude that it is lawful for men to kill them selves, as by the example of Judas, that men may offer sacrifice for the dead. Secondly the author of this book declareth, that he abridgeth the five books of Jason the Cyrenian, into this one, which is a manifest argument, that he was not the instrument of the holy Ghost. For the holy Ghost maketh no abridgements of others men's writings. Again the purpose of the author proveth that he was not directed by God's spirit, for he confesseth that he took this matter in hand, that men might have pleasure in it, which could not away with the tedious long stories of Jason. But the spirit of God serveth not such vain delight of men. Moreover, he showeth what labor and sweat it was to him, to make this abridgement, and to be short, he maketh a very profane preface, ambitiously commending his travel and showing the difference between a story at large, and an abridgment: all which things savor nothing of that spirit, by which the holy Scriptures of God were written, which as S. Peter showeth, came not by private men's will and ordinance, but the holy men of God spake as they were inspired by the holy Ghost. 2. Pet. 1. where as all this preface showeth nothing, but a private motion & an human purpose. And yet the man is to be commended for this, that he doth not boast of anymore revelation then he had, but in the end of this book confesseth his infirmity & desireth pardō, which is as far from the majesty of gods spirit, as it is agreeable to the weakness of our deceivable nature, which are apt to deceive and be deceived. If I have well done (saith he) and as the story required, it is the thing I desired: but if I have spoken slenderly and barely, it is that I could. For as it is hurtful to drink wine alone, and then again water, and as wine tempered with water is pleasant and delighteth the taste, so the setting out of the matter delighteth the ears of them that readeth the story, &c. Who is so void of the spirit of God, that cannot see plainly that this man had neither the purpose to write that which should instruct, much less that should bind the consciences of men, neither the gift so to write as in writing he could not err? But now to come to the text it self, first the Greek copy in this place is so mangled and corrupted that no good sense can be gathered of the words, by which it appeareth, that the devils limbs have been • umbling with this book, as they have been with the old doctors in places where mention is of prayer for the dead. Secondly seeing this fact of Judas, hath no commandment in the law, in which not so much as one pin of the tabernacle, was omitted, lest anything might be left to the will of man, to devise in the worship of God, it is so far of, that it is to be drawn into example, that we may be bold to condemn it for sin, & disobedience, you shall not do (saith the Lord) what seemeth good in your own eyes, but that which I command you, that only shall you do, without adding any thing to it or taking away anything from it. But M. Allen thinketh he hath a sure post to lean unto, because Judas Machabaeus did by this fast testify, his hope of the resurrection, as Iasons abridger saith, and also that prayers for the dead, may be an argument to prove the faith that men have of the resurrection. It is not unlike that this reason prevailed much with the ancient fathers, as appeareth by their writings, for commonly it hath the best color of any reason that they bring to allow prayers for the dead. But if it be weighed with good judgment, it is of no force to prove, that prayers for the dead, are lawful. For as truth may be proved always with true principles, so often times it may be concluded out of false affirmations. As for example, Idolatry proveth that there is a God, but Idolatry is not therefore the true worship of God. Of the heresy of the Pharisees that held Pythagoras opinion, of the passing of one soul into diverse bodies, may be concluded the immortality of the soul, but this doth not justify that error of the Pharisees: by the heresy of Origines which taught that all men should be saved at length, not only the immortality of the soul and the resurrection, but also the infinite mercy of God may be concluded, which all are true articles, yet was not the heresy of Origin true for all this, unless M. Allen hath forgotten that old sophism which children can solute: who so ever saith you are an asse, saith you are a living creature: but he that saith you are a living creature saith true: therefore who so ever saith you are an asse saith true. And such for all the world is M. Allens reason: who so confesseth prayers for the dead confesseth that the dead do live and shall rise again: but he that confesseth that the dead do live and shall rise again doth not err: therefore he that confesseth prayers for the dead doth not err.

2 I will not gain say, but who so denieth the authority of the holy Scriptures, thereby bewrayeth him self to be an heretic as all Papists do, which I will prove afterward. But he that admitteth for scripture, that which is not proceeded from the spirit of God, and thereby will avouch for truth, that which is contrary to the undoubted word of God, is no less heretic then he, for it is all one sin, to add to the word of God and to take from it. But M. Allen pretending to prove the book of Maccabees canonical by authority of the Church, when he cannot by consent that it hath with the scriptures of God, beginneth with the authority of Hieronym. in prol. Mach. But what he meaneth thereby or what place he noteth I know not. But this I know, that in his Preface upon the book of kings he doth not only omit it in rehearsal of the canonical books, but also accounteth it plainly among the Apocryphal. Next he allegeth the canons of the Apostles. Wise canons I promise you: as truly made by the Apostles, as the double canons that lie on the tower hill of London. In which are rehearsed 3. books of Maccabees two Epistles of Clemens for canonical scripture, but the Apocalypse of S. John hath no place at all, by which it may appear, what Apostles they were, that made that canckred canon. Then followeth the provincial Council of Carthage the third, which nameth the 2. books of the Maccabees among the canonical scriptures even as it doth the 5. books of Solomon, whereas the Church alloweth but 3. namely the Proverbs, the preacher, and the Canticles: and although you should number to these, the book of Wisdom, yet can you make but 4. in all that we know of. Again, in what sense they did call those books canonical, appeareth by Augustine, that was one of that Council, namely that they may be read, so it be with judgment. Contra 2. Gaudentij epistolam lib. 2. cap. 23. Et hanc quidem scripturam quae appellatur Machabaeorum non habent Iudaei sicut legem & Prophetas, & Psalmos, quibus dominus testimonium perhibet tanquam testibus suis dicens: oportet impleri omnia quae scripta sunt in lege, & prophetis, & in psalmis de me. Sed recepta est ab ecclesia non inutiliter, si sobrie legatur & audiatur. And this scripture of the Maccabees, the Jews compte not as the law and the prophets and the Psalms, to whom our Lord giveth testimony as to his witnesses saying, it behooved that all things should be fulfilled, that were written of me, in the law, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms. But it is received of the Church not unprofitably, if it be soberly read and hard. Here you see that Augustine howsoever he alloweth those books, yet he alloweth them not in full authority, with the law, Prophets and Psalms, nor without condition of sobriety in the reader or hearer. But Hieronym saith plainly the Church receiveth them not as canonical scriptures: in his preface upon the book of Proverbs: Sicut ergo Judith & Tobiae, & Machabaeorum libros, legit quidem ecclesia, sed eos inter canonicas scripturas non recipit: Sic & haec duo volumina legat ad aedificationem plaebis, non ad authoritatem ecclesiasticorum dogmatum confirmandam. Therefore even as the Church readeth in deed the books of Judith, Tobias, and Maccabees, but yet receiveth them not among the canonical scriptures so may she read these 2. books (videlicet Ecclesiasticus and the book of Wisdom falsely intitled to Solomon) for the edification of the people, but not to confirm the authority of ecclesiastical opinions. Thus if Augustine do simply allow these books, you have Hieronym that doth simply refuse them. If Augustine say the Church receiveth them for canonical, Hieronym saith the Church receiveth them not for canonical. As for Damascene except you would strive with number of witnesses I know not why you allege him, being one to whose judgment as but a late writer in comparison, you know we ascribe small credit. I might produce against him Athanasius or at leste wise one of elder time then Damascene under the name of Athanasius, but that I have alleged already is sufficient to repress that vain and unskillful insultation, that you use in so many wasteful words against us, for refusing the authority of him, that abridged Jason the Cyrenians books, for canonical scriptures.

3 And even as vain & frivolous is this discourse that followeth to show what books of scripture were in old time refused, by what heretics. But you think to match us with them, for denying the Maccabees, where unto you add the Epistle of S. James. If Martin and Illyricus have sometimes doubted of that Epistle, they are not the first that doubted of it, Eusebius saith plainly it is a counterfect Epistle. lib. 2. cap. 23. And yet he was not accounted an heretic, I say not this to excuse them that doubt of it, for I am persuaded they are more curious then wise in so doing, but whereas you join Calvin with them it is because you cannot leave to lie without shame, while you are an instrument to defend devilish errors without show of truth. For Calvin receiveth it, defendeth it, expoundeth it, and in all his writings allegeth it as canonical! scripture. Therefore if he were as ill as you compt him, yet it were shame to lie on the devil. But we shall not need to • ache among the old heresies to find what books of holy Scripture you Papists refuse, when it is an easy matter to take your own confessions and bold assertions, by which it is manifest that you do not as those heretics which you name reject someone or two books but the whole authority of all the canonical scriptures. For when you affi • me that no book of holy Scripture is canonical, but so far forth, as your Church will allow it, who seeth not that you do abrogate all majesty and authority from the word of God submitting it to the judgments of men? Moreover when you will not admit any sense of the scripture, but such as your Church will allow, although the same be contrary to the plain words thereof, what authority do you leave to the word of God: which you make to be but a dead letter until you give it such a sense as it pleaseth you. Finally where you make decrees of men either private or common, customs, traditions, unwritten verities, in which is no certainty at all, not only equivalent, but also oftentimes superior to the authority of holy scriptures, what certainty, credit or estimation do you leave to the scriptures of God above other writings? nay all other writings are in better case then the scriptures are with you. For other writings may be compted the works of their authors, without your censure the holy Scripture may not be compted the word of God, except you list so to allow it: which may as well refuse that which is God's word in deed as you receive and obtrude, that which is not the word of God at all. Other writings have such sense, as the authors have expressed them selves in their works, and may be gathered by their words. The holy Scripture may not have any allowed sense, approved to be the meaning of God the author thereof, by consideration of the words, nor conference of one place with another, but it must needs have such sense, as your Church will fain unto it. Finally other writings are of credit according to the authority of the writers: The holy Scriptures with you, have not credit according to the authority of God the author of them, but according to your determination, that may confer or perferre unto them what you list, whereby it is manifest, that you Antichristian Papists receive only the names of the canonical scriptures, and the metaphysical words abstract from all sense, but the authority, meaning and credit, you utterly deny to be in them, submitting them altogether to your own selves and your most corrupt & perverse judgment. The rest of your tedious railing unto the ende of the chapter, I know not why I should answer further, except it were to waste incke and paper. For the stock of your fructlesse tree being digged up by the roots, the proud tops and brave branches thereof must needs fall down and wither away with it.

CAP. IIII.

1 W Hen you have perforce as you phantysie made a breatch in that strong walle that environed the canonical scriptures, and made a great separation between them and all other writing, by thrusting in the abridgmēt of Iasons story among them, now as though you had taken the city, you make spoil and hauoke, without all order or honesty of all that liketh you within the compass of holy writ and without. Now burials, mournings, alms, fasting, festing, building, times and seasons all are yours. But he that longeth to have his spleen or his gaule moved, let him read these discourses following, if he list to laugh at foolish arguments let him come hither, if he will be angry with froward applications of the scripture here can he not want occasion. And first he hopeth that all they that love the truth will favor his cause, when they hear out of the scriptures, that sacrifice for the dead, was offered at Jerusalem by order of the law? By order of the law M. Allen? show me one jot or title of the law to approve sacrifice for the dead. Et eris mihi magnus Apollo, & Phyllida solus habebis, and I will worship your words as an oracle, and confess that you only have the truth. I know your answer: you have no writing, but you have good reasons, for so good a knight, so many priests, so good a bishop, such an author would never have allowed it, if it had not been according to the law of God. Touching your author we have said enough already, As for the good knight Judas, was not so suer of falling, but David a better knight then he, transgressed the law of God, to carry the ark upon a new chariotte, which should have been borne upon men's shoulders, 1. Chron. 13. wherein not only David, but so many Priests, and Levites, so good a bishop, and the whole general council of Israel did err. Here was neither Zadocke, nor Abiather, nor Abinadab, nor Gad, nor Nathan or any other that made contradiction, until God him self shown his displeasure by killing of Uzzah But because M. Allen thinketh the bishop being so good a man, would never have consented to it, if it had been evil. I would ask of him, who was bishop or high priest then, that he was so good a bishop, and so worthy of his commendation. Suerly if he were a good man, he was much to blame to suffer any such thing to be done, in the temple of God, which was not appointed by the law of God. But if he were a wicked and an ungodly man, by M. Allens own reason, it is not unlike, but that he would for the gain of 2000 drachmes of silver, suffer such a superstitious new usage contrary to the law. Now because M. Allen saith he was so good a bishop, let him chose which it was of these 3. that satte on the seat of the high priest all the time that Judas had any dignity among the people, namely Jason, Menclaus and Alcinus, let him take the best of them (although it appeareth by the story that Menaelaus the worst of them all three, was Bishop in that time) and he shall see, that no man ever (except he were willfully disposed to lie) would bestow such commendation upon him as M. Allen doth, to call him so good a Bishop, and to defend the government of so good a Bishop from suffering any superstitious usage contrary to the law, when they were all three open transgressors forsakers of the law: And what the Priests of that time were, let his own author declare, 2. Mach. 4. The priests were now no more diligent about the service of the alter, but despised the temple, and regarded not the sacrifices, but made hast to be partakers of the wicked expenses at the play, after the casting of the stone. These were those reverend Priests of those days, not unlike your hedge Priests of popery. And although Judas did afterward make a piece of reformation, after the horrible profaning of the temple, and the laws through cruel persecution, yet these Priests were not thereby suddenly changed into godly men careful for the sincerity of God's law: but were ready like the reformed popish Priests that we have seen in our time, to do what so ever the Prince hath commanded, & to be as ready again to do the contrary at another Princes commandment. In such a time, & under so wicked a Priest, no marvel, if such corruption did enter. Moreover, the fact of Judas favoreth not the popish purgatory, where none but venial and light sins are expiable, but those that were slain, for whom the same offering was made, died in deadly sin as appeareth by the story, they had under their coats Jewels, consecrated to Idols, which was so heinous an offense that Judas feared that they should have been all utterly destroyed for their fault, and therefore it might seem, that he caused the sacrifice to be offered not so much to pacify God for them that were killed, as to purge them selves of that pollution and profanation, saving that the author of the book expoundeth that fact otherwise. And whereas M. Allen saith, that prayer for the dead is yet used of the Jews. They that have as good cause to know their custom as he, affirmeth contrary. He citeth Antonius Margarita turned from a Jew to a Papist which avoucheth the same. The rabbins in their writings, when they speak of any that is dead, they only bless his memory, and in the book of their common prayers, and ceremonies printed in the hebrew tongue there is no such form of prayer to be found for the dead. But if any of them (as they do in many ceremonies papizare ) have learned the superstition of the Papists, it is not this alone that they have contrary to the word of God. But let us come to the matter of this chapter, M. Allen asketh what other thing doth all the mourning, fasting, and other ceremonies of burying mean, but a practice for the rest of their souls? I answer with distinction, because his question is with confusion: partly they mean, that those which did such things lamented for the departure of so excellent men, partly they meant to show their hope of their resurrection, mourning & fasting were to express their sorrow, the other ceremonies were to declare that men's bodies should rise again. As for alms I find not that it was used at burials. But what mean you M. Allen (if you be not out of your wits) to imagine prayer for the dead to be practiced at those burials? when in so many burials as are rehearsed in the Scriptures, with all ceremonies used about them, never is there one word, nay not one syllable, to prove prayer for their souls. And yet as a man with a marble face, you are not ashamed to affirm, that rites, offices, diriges, obites, trentalls, &c. were practiced by them, for the relief of the souls in purgatory. It may be that much of your paltry, by fond imitation was taken of such doings to counterfeit the examples of the Patriarchs: (but once again I say) there is no mention in all the Scripture of prayer for • he dead at any burial. Wherefore the authority of Ambrose helpeth you little, who although he commendeth Honorius for solemnising the funerals of Theodosius by the space of 40. days, after the example of Joseph, yet he saith not, that prayer for the dead was taken by the example of Joseph. But see M. Allen (if you can see anything) whether blind affection carrieth you, that you cannot understand the plain latin of Ambrose, or else will not translate it a right. Ambrose speaketh not of his fortieth days mind, but of the solemnity of his funeral kept 40. days together, as in the embalming of Jacob's body was by Joseph. But to say the truth, how simple a reason this was, to take example of, for the time of solemnity of funerals, it is plain by that place which Ambrose allegeth, where it is said that 40. days were bestowed, by the Physicians or Apothecaries in embalming the body of Jacob, to keep it long from putrefaction. And how slenderly he reproveth them that kept 7. days funerals, where if his reason were good by example of Joseph's Poticaries to keep 40. days, theirs were better by example of Joseph him self to keep 7. days. These be the grounds of such superstitions as crept into the Church, first by emulation of the Pagans, and after seeking for colorable confirmation in the examples of the Patriarchs. For avoiding of all which inconveniences that have risen and may rise, by ceremonies practiced at burials, the Church of Geneva very wisely & godly, useth no more ceremonies in burying their dead, then are convenient for the reverent laying up of the corps which is ordained to rise again with glory. Whose still burial is better then your yelling and howling, and their mumming (if you will needs so term it) more commendable, then you masking.

2 As we have had prayer for the dead, so now we shall have fasting for the dead. In deed the words sound more like such a matter then anything that can be said of prayer for the dead. But the sense is evident, they fasted not for them to redeem their souls, but they fasted, to declare their sorrow, because they were slain with the sword as it followeth in plain words. And yet to make the matter more plain, in the same Chapter followeth a large form of lamētation made by David for them, where if ever he had used prayer for the dead, he would have used it: if not for his father in law Saul, yet at leste for his dearly beloved and sworn brother Ionathas. But no such thing came in his mind, as M. Allen foolishly fantysieth of him. But M. Allen saith this matter is more plainly proved, by the Galaadites, that fasted seven days after the burial of Saul and Ionathas, and he is suer, there can no reasonable cause be alleged of their fasting, but only to ask pardon for their sins. I take this to be a more reasonable cause, that they fasted and humbled them selves before God, because they did see the wrath of God against the whole people in the calamity of the king & his son, whose contumelious handling by the uncircumcised, stretched to the dishonor of God. And this was common among the Israelites in any great calamity or danger, or to show their sorrow for profanation of God's glory. And any of these are more reasonable causes, then the superstitious surmise of Beda, with his curious conceit of the six ages of the world, where other make seven and eight ages.

3 What else? if we had not doles at burials, proved by the example of the Patriarchs, all were marred. Therefore Tobias must say for doles. But first we have shown already, by authority of Hieronym, which is proof sufficient against the Papist, that the Church receiveth not this book of Tobias for canonical scripture. And secondly if we should receive it, yet here is nothing that helpeth M. Allens cause but his own simple surmise. He saith in deed the words can have no other sense, yet all that he saith is not gospel, but what if the truer text of Tobias hath other words? First in the Greek there is no mention at all of wine, as is in the Latin nor of setting bread and wine upon the grave of the virtuous, but the sense is this: As before he exhorted his son to feed the hongry with his own bread, and to cloth the naked with his own garments: so now he willeth him to spare the bread out of his own mouth, to bury the righteous, as he him self had done chap. 1. (which is a clear interpretation of this:) but to give nothing at all to the ungodly, or to be liberal to the righteous even to their death and to see them buried honestly. As for the iustes and funerals M. Allen dreameth that the poor came unto, to receive penny dole or soul bread, appeareth in the first and second Chapters how solemn they were, when poor Toby was fain to steal the bodies and bury them privily by night, yet upon that corrupt Latin text (as it should seem) whereupon M. Allen buildeth, they used in Africa to make sumptuous and drunken feasts, upon the graves of men in the places of burial, which they thought not only to pertain to the honor of the martyrs, but also to be some comfort to the souls of the dead. This old superstition Augustine reproveth epist. 64. Aurelio. But it is pretily renewed in the funeral feasts of the Papists, as also the selling of oblations for the dead which he in the same place condemneth.

4 But when shall we make an end if we answer such arguments as these? The widows entreated Peter to restore Tabitha, and shown such garments as she made whilst she lived, therefore prayer and alms helpeth the souls in purgatory. At a word I say, here is no necessary nor probable consequence. But this is notable, that he allegeth the sorrowing of the unbelieving Jews. He is worthy of this benefit, because he loveth our nation and hath built us a Synagogue. Belike he would have men think this Synagogue was some chauntry, that he built for the benefit of the souls in purgatory.

5 What a shameless man is this? to say the soul of Lazarus was restored to his body, at the prayers of Martha & Mary his sisters, who as the Scripture is manifest, did not hope for any restitution before the general resurrection. Yet we need not doubt (saith he) but they prayed daily for his rest. How proveth he that? Forsoth Syr, when Mary went out suddenly to meet Christ, the Jews said, vadit ad monumentum vt ploret. Alacke that M Allen could not put out that pl. and then it should be vt oret ibi. But in good sadness, if the Jews had thought that Mary had gone to pray at her brothers grave, they would not have followed her to hinder her devotions, but she went to wayle, and they followed to comfort her & to forbid her M. Allen saith, that immoderate mourning hath a special mistrust of the resurrection, as S. Paul declareth. 1. The. 4. But joined with prayers and alms, it hath a lively hope of those that sleep in peace, if they sleep in peace what need have they of our prayers? but will you see the ratte taken by his own rumbling? The place of S. Paul 1. Thes. 4. is directly to reprove immoderate mourning for the dead, which is not meet for them that have hope. But how happeneth it, that prayer, and alms be not there joined to moderate mourning? yea how happeneth it, that in so necessary a place S. Paul findeth no other comfort to moderate the mourning of the faithful, but only the quiet rest of them that are a sleep in the Lord, and the hope of their glorious resurrection? Surely if S. Paul had been of Chrysostom's mind he would have prescribed other manner of comforts as Chrysostom doth. But where learned Chrysostom that prayers and alms had any comfort in them for the dead? Surely he allegeth Scripture, but he applieth it madly, and yet he often applieth it to the same purpose, belike it was the best he had for that purpose. God saith unto Hezekiah, I will defend this city for mine own cause, and for David my servants sake. Alas good man what manner of reason is this? be it as he saith, that the memory of David being a righteous man, and not rather the truth of God's promise, made to David, moved him to defend the city from the enemies: doth it therefore follow that prayers and alms are available for the dead for whom we have no scripture, no commandment, promise, nor example to pray? Who if they be of the number of God's elect, be in so happy estate as they cannot be better by our prayer, which supposeth them to be in misery. Hieronym upon the 37. of Isaiah where the same sentence is repeated, referreth these words Propter David &c. to the memory of David being a virtuous man, whereby the Jews were admonished, that not for their merit, but for his mercy sake and for their ancestors sake, God would protect them, but prayer for the dead he findeth not available by these words. The other place of Chrysostom alloweth rather alms that men give before their death, or bequeath in their test • meant because it is a work of their own, then that alms which other men give for them. For if Dorcas was restored to life through her alms, it was through her own alms, that she did give when she was a live, not for any alms that other did bestow for her when she was dead. The third place of Chrysostom showeth, how hardly the people being once n • sl • d in superstitiō, could be kept in any moderation, no not in those times where there was great care, diligence and knowledge, in their pastors: but soon after as these things decayed in the teachers, so superstition daily increased: and where as you note in the margent, that priests in that time were desired to pray for men's souls, I will prove afterward in a more proper place, that in the older time they were called together at burials for another purpose. But such is the nature of men's devises, that although at the first they seem not altogether evil, yet in process of time, they grow to more and more inconueniens, until at the last they come to be altogether abominable. And therefore your collection (M. Allen) being all upon false grounds is nothing to be regarded of old or young. But Satan your suttill master, hath taught your rather to appeal to the judgment of the younger sort, who have not known your horrible idolatry and mischeiuous merchandise of men's souls, then to men of any riper years, which remember your mysteries of iniquity, and are witnesses of your detestable doings. And yet you do clame of the decay of virtue in our days, which whether it have suffered a greater diminishing then in the time of your blind and blasphemous government, let them that have known both the times, consider diligently and judge indifferently. Finally where as you affirm, that your adversaries confess, that the days of Chrysostom were holy and undefiled, and would make young men & boys believe so, you must either bring forth your authors that so confess, or else all men both young and old must say you are a shameless liar: we confess that in those days, the only foundation Jesus Christ was taught, and the article of justification by the only mercy of God was preached: but yet we affirm that much straw, wodde, and other impure matter, was built upon the foundation, which was a preparation to the kingdom of Antichrist, which was not longe after to be revealed. It may be a shame for you Papists, to leave and condemn for heresy, all that is true in those men's writings, and agreeable to the scripture and to make such vaunt for a few superstitious ceremonies, and insincere opinions, which yet if either young or old will indifferently compare with your abominations of desolation, they shall easily perceive that they differe as much from you, as we from them.

CAP. V.

1 NOw we shall see how many ways alms proffiteth men's souls. First alms given by a man's own hands, is allowed for the best, but that my thinks M. Allen should keep men out of your purgatory and not help them: when they be there. And here you will seem, to be zealous in exhorting men to alms, and charge us with jangling against it, because we affirm, that men's works must not presume to win heaven, nor to purge sins, nor to medle with Christ's work of redemption, and the office of only faith, which assertions you call corruptions of Christian conditions. O blasphemous barking of an horrible helhound. Doth the glory of God's mercy and grace, the work of Christ's redemption and the office of only faith hinder alms or corrupt good conditions, who seeth not although it be a foolish thing to boast of our works, but that we are compelled by this sclaūderous tongue of yours, who seeth not more true alms which is given for God's cause in one city where the Gospel is preached, then in a whole cuntrey where popery is received? Neither do we refuse the trial of S. James, with the proudest of the popish hypocrites that make most of their merits. And because you would be of that religion that S. James calleth holy and undefiled, which is to visit the fatherless children and widows in their affliction. If I should speak of singular persons, the trial were neither certain nor possible, let us therefore consider the whole states. Shew me M. Allen if thou canst for thy gutts, or name me any city in the world, where popery prevaileth, that hath made such provision for the fatherless children and widows and all other kind of poor, as is in the noble city of London and in diverse other cities and towns of this land, and by public law appointed to be throughout all the realm of England. I knowledge and confess before the Lord, that it is nothing in comparison of his mercy towards us, nor our duty towards him. But yet blessed be his holy name, that it is sufficient to justify our profession against the Papists, & if not to stop their malicious mouths, yet to condemn their cancred conscience of obstinate lying against the manifest light of truth. And whereas M. Allen will have us told, that the blood of Christ maketh men's works meritorious, we will not let to tell him, that y ^e church of Christ abhorreth that blasphemy, whereby Christ's blood is made not the only nor the principal, but an accessory and helping cause of remission of sins & eternal salvation, and will not doubt to tell him, & all such hypocrites as he is, that neither see, feel, taste, nor know the mystery of Christ's redemption, or anything that ishueth unto us thereof, which mingle merits of men, by what color or conveyance of words what so ever, with the infinite and only cause of our salvation the mere mercy of God. And whereas he biddeth us come into his Church, we say to all them that are curable among them, as the spirit of God hath taught us, come out of her my people, come out of her, lest ye be partakers of her plages and torments. But now at the last, he returneth to his matter of mercy, affirming that after men's departure, the representation of alms by such as received it shall move God exceedingly to mercy. O vain imagination, for which he hath neither Scripture, nor doctor, for neither the example of Peter and the saying of Cyprian helpeth him one jot, because there is not the like comparison between man and God, nor between deliverance from hell which is certain, & purgatory which is the controversy.

2 This matter standeth upon chance medley, for if thou chance (saith he) to be negligent, &c. and more rightly then he termeth the burial of Geneva it may be called a matter of mumchaunce, for he beginneth with a chance, but he hath never a title of scripture, nor any sufficient authority of a doctor, to prove that alms bequeathed in a man's testament helpeth him out of purgatory. And yet as though he had some great speak to make, he protesteth that he speaketh not for priests advantage, because he is not of that room him self &c. but hereby you may see what he counteth alms, chiefly, that which is given unto priests, or else what needeth he to make any such protestation. But he speaketh it because he believeth it, he would fain counter fect his speech like the Apostle, but an ape will be an ape, although he be clothed in purple. For the ground of his belief is not as the Apostles was, the word of God Rom. 10. but the practice of men, which though they were never so good, yet they were such as might deceive and be deceived. But to the matter, the flourish of this doctrine was so great in those times which he commondeth to be so happy, that he cannot find one man that speaketh of it: but he is fain to cite out of Damascene, that which Chrysostom should say. Which words prove no more, but that alms is better given at the last then not at all: of deliverance from purgatory never a word. There is one word oblationibus which perhaps M. Allen would draw to masses, for he translateth it oblation in the singular number, which in the Latin is the plural number. His fetch is easy to find, the Mass though it be said never so often, yet is it called of them but one oblation. But I infer upon his own conscience, Chrysostom's word is oblationibus oblations, therefore he meaneth not Masses, but only alms deeds which in scripture are called oblations or sacrifices where with God is pleased Heb. 13. But I will let this slight gear pass and go to the rest.

3 Now cometh another way of relief, by alms of other men, which being joined with prayers in our country, is as strange as sometime it was common. He would make fools believe, that prayers and alms as they are in deed not so common as they should be, yet among us are not at all. But omitting that slander with the rest, alms for souls departed is never mentioned in the scripture. And although Tobies story be no canonical scripture, yet it is not once mentioned, nor by any reasonable or sober man can be imagined there. But who can let M. Allen to dream that Tobies prayer and alms were for the dead whom he buried? yet who can bear him when he bosteth, that all antiquity doth offer to take his parte, and he may have whom he will to testify the same. This is a strange matter (M. Allen) that you may have your choice of so many and will not vouchsafe to bring one that so doth write of Tobies prayer and alms. But you will say you mean generally of alms and prayers for the dead and thereof you have store of ancient testimonies, and the more ancient the better. I will not deny but you have much dross and dragges of the latter sort of doctors, and the later the fuller of dross. But bring me any word out of Justinus martyr, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, or any that did write with in one 100. years after Christ, that alloweth prayer or alms for the dead, and I will say you are as good as your word. But if neither you nor any Papist for you, be able to do it out of these which I have named (which are the most ancient writers whose works are extant) nor out of an ancient or authentical writer with in the compass that I have named, I may justly say, that you will boast of more in a minute of an hour then you are able to perform all the days of your life. But you will come near the time if you cannot come to it. And Origen shall speak for you all that he can, or at least wise as much as you will give him leave to say. But if a man might be as bold to pose you ( M. Allen ) as you are to pose your betters: where had you this testimony of Origen, did you read it in his own works, or did you borrow it of some other man's collection? I know you will be ashamed to confess the latter, but you may be more ashamed to acknowledge the former. For who soever allegeth this place of Origen, to prove prayers and alms to profit the dead, is a foul falsery of Origen's meaning, & a beastly gelder of ancient authority though it be M. Allen him self. For this place of Origen as it maketh nothing in the world to prove that prayer, and alms profit the dead, but the clean contrary, so doth it plainly declare to what ende those prayers, alms, and oblations that were used in the primitive Church were referred and how in p • ocesse of time, superstitious and erroneous opinions grew of them. Wherefore that this may be evident I will rehearse the whole testimony of Origen, which M. Allen hath so mischieuously mangled. Nam priores diem natiuitatis celebrabant vnam vitam diligentes, & aliam post hanc non sperantes. Nunc vero nos non natiuitatis diem celebramus, cum sit dolorum atque tentationum introitus, sed mortis diem celebramus, vtpote omnium dolorum depositionem, atque omnium tentationum effugationem. Diem mortis celebramus quia non moriuntur hi qui mori videntur. Propterea & memorias sanctorum facimus, & parentum nostrorum vel amicorum in fide morientium devote memorias agimus, tam illorum refrigerio gaudentes quam etiam nobis piam consummationem in fide postulantes. Sic itaque non diem natiuitatis celebramus quia in perpetuo viuent ii qui moriuntur. Celebramus nimirum religiosos cum sacerdotibus conuocantes, fideles vnà cum clero inuitantes, adhuc egenos & paupers, pupillos & viduas saturantes, vt fiat festiuitas nostra in memoriam requiei defunctis animabus quarum memoriam celebramus, nobis autem efficiatur in odorem suauitatis in conspectu aeterni Dei. The former men did celebrate the day of their nativity, loving but one life and not hoping for any other after this. But now we do not celebrate the day of nativity, seeing it is the entrance of sorrows and temptations, but we celebrate the day of death as that which is the putting away of all sorrows, and the escaping of all temptations. We celebrate the day of death, because they do not die that seem to die. Therefore also do we make memories of the Saints and devoutly keep the memories of our parents or friends dying in the faith, as much rejoicing in their rest, as desiring for our selves also a godly finishing in faith. So therefore we do not celebrate the day of nativity, because they which die shall live perpetually. And thus we celebrate it, calling together the devout men with the Priests, the faithful with the clergy, inviting also the needy and poor, filling the fatherless and widows with food. that our festiuitie or joyfulness may be done in remembrance of the rest which is unto the souls departed, whose memory we celebrate, & may be made unto us a savor of sweetenes in the sight of the eternal God. By this place it is manifest that Origen & the east Church in his time acknowledged no purgatory pains, because he confesseth death to be the ende of all sorrows to the faithful. Secondly that they pray not for their friends souls, as being in torment, but that they rejoiced for them because they were in rest. Thirdly that the prayers which they used in the memories of the dead, were not for the dead, but for them selves which were alive, that they might likewise die in the faith as their friends had done before them. Fourthly, that the assembly of the clergy and people, with the feeding of the poor, was not to pray for the dead, nor to merit for their souls, but to rejoice for the rest of the dead, and to be a sacrifice of thanksgiving for them that were alive. This one testimony of Origen shall testify what the judgment of the Greek Church was concerning purgatory & prayers for the dead from the Apostles time unto his days. I wotte well superstition in the Latin Church was somewhat forwarder, in as much as there was the seat of Antichrist appointed to be set up according to the revelation of S. John and the exposition of Irenaeus who judged that Lateinos was the number of the beasts name spoken of Apoc. 13. By the way it may be noted, how M. Allen translateth religiosos the religious men, which word might well be used, but that he would have fools to think, that there were Monks, and fryers in that time, which were used to be called to burials, but it is plain that Origen calleth thē religious, whom by and by after he calleth faithful. Moreover, in the latter end where he libbeth of the conclusion of Origen's words, he translateth: vt fiat festiuitas nostra in memoriam, &c. That the memorial of their rest might be kept solemnly, yet when he hath clipped, shaven, pared, gelded, and falsified all that he can, the dead be in rest, and not in purgatory, for whose sake he imagineth in Origen's time they gave alms. But next followeth a worthy authority of Clement the Apostles own scholar, and he forsooth in his Epistle to James the brother of our Lord, commendeth obites, prayer, and alms for the dead. But why do ye not M. Allen rehearse his own words as they are written in his Epistle? belike you are ashamed of his lousie latin, and think that all wise men would say you are mad, if you believe that Clemens which lived in the Apostles time could write no better style, thē the cobling counterfecter of those epistles. For shame away with such a dirty doctor, as writeth to S. James to see there be no mise tordes murium stercora among the fragments of the Lord's portion, &c. Epist. 2. He was a beastly asse that writ such nasty stuff, and thought to make the world believe, that such a godly and learned father as Clemens was, would write so foolishly, so barbarously, so filthily, so malapertly, of such babbles as were not invented 600, years after, to so holy and excellent an Apostle as S. James was: but the old proverb must always be true: Draffe is good enough for swine. But to put all out of doubt, the example of Iobes sacrifice and alms which were available for his children, and friends, showeth that the alms of men alive profit them that be dead, In deed I read in the book of Iobes sacrifice, and prayer, but I read not of alms given to merit for those that were living, much less for those that were dead. I doubt not but Job gave alms liberally when time & occasion served. But I say those places are unfitly of M. Allen alleged to show the force of alms, where no word of alms is spoken. Howebeit he showeth his reason afterward, why he allegeth this example of Job, because Chrysostom applieth it to the same purpose. I deny not but that Chrysostom doth as substantially allege this example, for prayers to profit the dead, as he doth the saying of God, that he will protect the city for David his servants sake, what shall we say. Those good men in that declining state of the Church, to superstition, being destitute of the clear testimonies of scripture to maintain these plausible errors, are driven to such simple shifts to uphold them, as it is great pity to see. It seemed to Chrysostom the best way to stay the people from immoderate mourning, but he might have used a better way, if he had comforted them as the Apostle teacheth. 1. Thess. 4. 1. Cor. 5. Otherwise when he judged uprightly and according to the scripture his words sound clean contrary to the opinion of purgatory and works of other men to be meritorious for the dead, as in the very next Homilie being the 42. 1. Cor. Quapropter oro & obsecro vos, adeo{que} ad genua supplex procumbo &c. The words are long therefore I will rehearse them in English, and let M. Allen find fault with my translation if he can: wherefore I pray and beseech you yea and I fall down as an humble suitor to your knees, while never so small a portion of your life remaineth be ruled by my sayings, be ye converted, be ye amended into better, lest like unto that richman when we are gone hense, we pouer forth tears which shall nothing profit there, and lament in vain: for whether thou hast a father, or a son, or a friend, or any other whom so ever that putteth his trust in the Lord, none of these shall deliver thee being accused of thine own works. For such judgment is exercised there, every man is judged of his own deeds, neither is any man otherwise saved there. And these things I warn you of, not as he that would make you sad, or bring you into desperation, but that being fed with vain and unprofitable hopes, trusting in this man or that man, we should not neglect our own virtue, for if we be slothful and do slack the matter neither any just man, nor Prophet, nor Apostle, shall help us: but if we be diligent having help enough of our own works, we shall depart hense with great confidence, and enjoy those good things that are laid up for them that love the Lord, which that we may all enjoy let it be so through the grace and mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ. Compare these words with the former, and mark here not only the sound of his words, but the weight of his reasons, where as in all other places that he holdeth the contrary, the words only fauoreth your cause, his reasons are either feeble or none at all.

4 The last parte of this Chapter hath a boisterous brag of two great doctors authorities Gregory Nyssene, & Athanasius the great, but they stand both upon either the credit or judgment of Damascene, neither of which we esteem so much, that we need greatly regard them. Counterfecting was so common in those days and before them, to maintain such errors as could not be proved by scripture. For to pass over that which Tertullian writeth in his book de Baptismo, of the priest of Asia, which was convicted to have feigned certain writings of S. Paul to Tecta : was not the Nycene Council the first and the best, corrupted with counterfect canons by the Bishops of Rome to maintain their usurped authority, in the days of S. Augustine ? which was plainly espied and confuted in the Council of Carthago. 6. cap. 4. & 7. And in the African Council, were there not three faulse quaternions found added to the 5. Council of Constantinople? which was espied in the 6. Council of Constantinople Act. 3. & 12. If men would be so bold with general Councils, think you that they would be afraid of Gregorius or Athanasius writings? And what manner of a Sermon of Athanasius was that, which was read in the 4. action of the 2. Nicene Council? Of the image of Christ and the miracle done in Berytus, that when a Jew strake the image, there issued out water and blood: what a shameless lie is that which Pope Adrian in his epistle writeth, that Constantine was cleansed of a leprosy and baptized of Sylvester at Rome, contrary to the History of Eusebius who lived in Constantine's time and knew him? what faulsyfying of authorities is there to prove the worshipping of images out of Gregory Nissene, Basilius Magnus, Athanasius and Ambrosius, Chrysostom, Cyril, and Hieronym, with diverse other in that lewd Council? wherefor except you could allege their sayings out of their own works, I will never trouble myself to answer them, although if they were there true authorities, there is no cause why we should believe either of them both, in an article of faith without the authority of the word of God. Their time had diverse errors & superstitious ceremonies which they being occupied in fighting against greater heresies that then sprang up, of the Arians, Macedonians, and such like, either had no leisure to espy, or else made less accompt to reform.

CAP. VI.

1 IN the latter ende of the fifth Chapter was promised a whole rank of God's holy host, & all the blessed band of Martyrs and Saints to stand on their side. But this promise is no sooner made then it is forgotten. The title in deed talketh of alms presented for the deceased in time of the holy sacrifice, but the treatise hath never a one that speaketh for it. But M. Allen himself who first speaketh of the decay of popish devotion even in popish time, & then telleth us whence the offertory of the mass took the name, which he saith was of such oblations, as were offered for the dead. But except his word be good payment, he bringeth nothing else for proof. But if we shall rather believe Justinus Martyr, one of the most ancient and authentical writers of the Church, whose works remain: the oblation that was made after the communion was of alms for the relief of the poor. As appeareth in his second Apollogie unto the Emperor for the Christians, where he describeth the whole order of their meeting and what so ever was done, or said among them. As first the reading of the Scripture, the exhortation of the chief minister, the common prayer of the whole Church, the administration of the Lord's supper, and then saith he, 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 &c. They that are rich & such as will, according as every man shall think good give what they will &c. by which it is manifest that in those first and purer days there was no mention at all of sacrifice for the dead, but only oblation for the poor living. And as for the council Bracharense which was held 4. or 5. hundredth years after Justinus time, yet proveth nothing but the commemoration of the dead, and a collation of the faithful but no oblation for the dead. Nevertheless to help the matter be added 2. other provincial councils, namely the council of Vase, and the 4 of Carthage, which excommunicate all such as hinder in any wise, the oblations for the departed, and these decrees also are confirmed by the 6. general council holden at Constantinople. Therefore these ministers that be in the ruffe of their new communion, must be thrust out of the old communion with all a lie a. But whether is he worthy to be thrust, that regarding no communion either old or new of any truth, but his common union of lying and railing together, hath falsyfied both the decrees of Vase and Carthage, what M. Allen? two Councils at one clappe falsyfied? and that not ignorantly but wittingly, not negligently but willfully? and yet must you wipe your lips as though it were not you, and rail like a ruffian upon our ministers in the ruffe of their new communion, when you are not ashamed to faulsyfie the decrees of the old communion? Be not these the words of the Carthage Council Ca. 95? Qui oblationes defunctorum aut negant ecclesiis aut cum difficultate reddunt tanquam egentium necatores excommunicentur. They which either deny to the Churches, or else pay with difficulty the oblations of the dead, let them be excommunicated as murderers of the poor. Likewise the Council of Vase. Ca. 2. Qui oblationes defunctorum retinent, & ecclesijs tradere demorantur, vt infidels ab ecclesia sunt abijciendi, quia vsque ad exinanitionem fidei peruenire certum est hanc pietatis diuinae exacerbationem: quia & fideles de corpore recedentes, votorum plenitudine, paupers consolatu alimoniae & necessaria sustentatione fraudātur, toti ergo tales quasi egentium necatores nec credentes iuditium dei habendi sunt, vnde & quidam patrum hoc scriptis suis inseruit congruēte sententia qua ait: Amico quicquam rapere furtum est, ecclesiam vero fraudare sacrilegium est. They which retain, the oblations of the dead and make delay to deliver them to the Churches, are to be cast out of the Church as infidels. For it is certain that this provoking to wrath of the mercy of God recheth even to the uttermost denying of the faith. Because both the faithful departing from their body, are defrauded of the fulfilling of their desires, and the poor of the comfort of food and necessary sustentation. They therefore that are such, are to be compted as murderers of the poor and such as believe not the judgment of God, wherefore one of the fathers hath put this in his writings, with agreeable meaning whereby he saith. To take away anything from a man's friend is theft, but to defraud the Church is sacrilege. What other thing can be gathered out of those decrees? but that those men are noted with censure, which keep back such things as men that are departed had bequethed, to the Churches, for the relief of the poor, what is this to oblation or sacrifice for the dead: is it all one to speak of oblations of the dead and oblations for the dead? With M. Allen it is all one, for after he hath said, that the Councils do excommunicate all them that hinder the oblations for the departed, he addeth that the canons of the Councils run thus, that they which withdraw the oblations of the departed are excommunicated. But herein he declareth, that he is a manifest falsyfier, not of error but of purpose.

2 That which cannot be proved by the Councils, shall be made cock sure by the doctors, and Damascene that blessed man shall begin the daunse: who as their fables write of hm, had his hand cut of for crafty conveyance, yet was it again restored by miracle by the blessed virgins, after it had been nailed to the Church doors of a longe time. I have often said we defer nothing to his authority, who was both in a corrupt time, and he him self a corrupter of religion by building upon fables and authorities of men as may be manifest to any that shall read his writings, which of the Papists of mean judgment in these days is not ashamed of that fable which he reherseth in Serm. de defunctis? how Gregory should pray and obtain pardon of God for the sins of Troianus an heathen Emperor that was in Hell 4. or 5. hundredth years before Gregory was bishop of Rome, so may they be of the tale of Falconilla and all other like fables avouched by him in the history of Barlaum and Jehoshaphat. But of memories of the dead and prayers for the dead also, we will not strive but that they were used before the times of Beda, Ephraim, and Ambrose, but without warrant of God's word or authorities of scriptures, but such as is so pitifully wrested and drawn unto them, as every man may see, the holy Ghost never meant any such thing as they gather of them.

3 Nay ho there M. Allen, no higher then Tertullian. And when we have examined the testimonies of Tertullian in order as you have brought them, you shall have small advantage out of him, yea your friends shall think you had been better to have made no mention of him. For first I must tell you, that these three lines which are all that he hath written sounding that way, are found in three books which all were written by him, when he was an heretic, & separated from the catholic Church. And therefore it may well be, that all that he speaketh of prayers and oblations for the dead, was only in the conventicles of the Montanistes, of which sect he was an earnest defender, rather then in the catholic Church. And this conjecture seemeth the more probable, because Cyprian which was afterward a catholic Bishop in the same city, where Tertullian sometime had lived, maketh no mention of prayers for the dead, but only of sacrifice for the Martyrs which was none other but the sacrifice of thanksgiving. lib. 4. Ep. 5. But admit that the Church of God in that time, used these superstitious prayers and oblations for the dead, let us consider upon what ground they were used. The firs • place M. Allen allegeth in this form. Oblationes fiebant annua die pro defunctis. But Tertullian's words in libro de corona militis be these. Oblationes pro defunctis, pro natalitijs annua die facimus. We make oblations for the dead, for our births on the yearly day. By which it is evident that M. Allen did not read these word • s him self, but received them of some other man's collection, or sound them in some book of common places. But to the matter: Tertullian him self shall say for me, that the same custom, with many other which he there rehearseth, hath no ground in the holy Scripture. Harum & aliarum eiusmodi disciplinarum, si leges expostules scripturarum, nullam inuenies, traditio tibi praetendetur autrix, consuetudo confirmatrix & fides obseruatrix. Of those and such like disciplines, if you require the laws of the Scriptures, you shall find none, tradition shall be pretended to you to be the author, Custom the confirmer, and faith the observer. It is good to take that which is so frankly given: and more is Tertullian to be commended, that confesseth the ground of his error not to be taken out of the word of God, then they that labor to wre • t the Scriptures to find that which Tertullian confesseth is not to be found in them. I know the Papists will answer that tradition is of as good credit as the Scripture, & is the word of God unwritten, as well as the Scripture is the word of God written. But why then do they not observe all other things, that Tertullian in the same place affirmeth to be tradition, if tradition be the word of God, why do they not give to them that are newly baptized a temper of milk and honey, and from the day of their baptism forbid daily washing all the week after? Why do they not count it a wicked thing to fast on the Sunday, or to pray and worship God on their knees? Why do they not count it a wicked thing to fast between Easter & Whitsuntide, or to pray on their knees all that time? Finally why do not they cross them selves in the forehead, at every step they set forth, at coming in, at going out, at putting on of garments, at putting on of shoes, at washing, at the tables, at lighting of candles, at beds, at stools, and at all things, what so ever they do? What answer can they here make, but that their Church may dispense as well with the word of God unwritten, which they cal tradition, as she doth against the word of God contained in the holy Scriptures. So that always what so ever they prate of antiquity, customs, traditions, unwritten verities, or the word of God unwritten, the authority of their blasphemous church is above them all. Now to the second testimony alleged out of Tertullian. S. Ieronym shall testify for us, that this book, as the other that followeth, was written against the Church, so was also his book de corona militis, when he was out of the Church, whereby it may appear, what good authorities they are, to prove the doctrine of the Church. This book de castitate, he wrote to dissuade a friend of his, whose wife was dead, that he should not marry again, condemning second marriage for adultery, as Montanus his master did, and laboreth to prove that he could not pray for his departed wives soul, nor offer the yearly oblation, if he married another. To the same purpose he reasoneth in his book de Monogamia, where the words alleged by M Allen be so corrupted in all the coppyes, that Beatus Rhenamus confesseth that no sense could be made of them, and these words are the conjectural correction of Beatus Rhenamus. But let them be undoubtedly the words of Tertullian, as they seem to be. Here more manifestly then before he brocheth his heresy of condemning second marriages, for in that the wife prayeth for her husbands soul, and offereth, &c: he would prove that she is still married to him, and that she committeth adultery if she take another, directly contrary to the word of God. Rom. 7. & 1. Cor. 7. yet see either the ignorance or y ^e malice of this Allen, that allegeth those words of this writer, by which he condemneth them that allow second marriage, as deniers of the resurrection, against us that deny prayers for the dead to be lawful by the word of God. And useth the same reason and words to prove prayers for the dead to be allowable, that Tertullian useth to prove second marriages to be damnable. For that accompt which Tertullian saith men and women are bound unto, one to another, he meaneth of the promise of marriage once made between them, which M. Allen, like a wise young man expoundeth prayers & oblations for their souls. The words of Tertullian following immediately where M. Allen leaveth them, are these. Si autem in illo aeuo neque nubent neque nubentur, sed erunt aequales Angels: non ideo, non tenebimur coniugibus defunctis, quia non erit restitutio coniugij. At quin eo magis tenebimur, quia in meliorem statum destinamur, resurrecturi in spiritual consortium, agnituri tam nosmet ipsos, quam nostros, &c. But if in that time, they shall neither marry, nor be married, but shall be equal to the Angels, we shall not therefore not be bound to our wives departed, because there shall not be a restitution of marriage, But so much the more we shall be bound, because we are appointed to a better state, as they that shall rise again into a spiritual fellowship, and shall know again as well our selves, as those that pertain unto us. Wherefore M. Allen once again I must tell you, that we would be sorry to be so near the denial of the resurrection, by denying prayers for the dead, as you are toward the heresy of the Montanistes, in using such reasons to defend praying and offering for the dead, as Tertullian a Montaniste used to maintain his heresy, but I shall have further occasion to retorne to Tertullian, when I shall prove that the opinion of purgatory came first fr •• heretics.

4 Not content with Tertullian's testimony, you will clime higher, even to Clemens the Apostles own scholar, but you shall be brought down with shame enough. I will not here repeat the mise dounge, with the rotten bread in the box, and such baggage as I have discovered before, of this carterly Clement, but because you are so full of posing M. Protestant, as though you were Johannes ad oppositum, I will pose you M. Allen another while, or any M. Papist of you all, that hath a forheade to maintain this trumpery, for Clemen • the ancient Bishops writing. Alas Syr, what if this be proved counterfect that you say is so old? and you without peradventure lie, that of late have found it so ancient, what ground have your scholars then? Tertullian hath discharged you of authority of the scripture already, how will you prove it then to be a tradition of the Apostles? your answer will be still, Clenens saith it. But alacke Sir, whether is it more lick, that Eusebius and Hieronym, that lived nearer to the time of S. Clement by twelve hundredth years, then you, should know or here tell of his epistles and other writings better then you? But Eusebius and Hieronym never heard of such writings as were never seen in the Church 13. or 14. hundredth years after Clemens his death. Where should you have them then but of some counterfecting knawe, that could not otherwise maintain his heresy to be old, but by falsyfying and counterfecting a new, that which never was in the old writers heads. But to show that your shameless Clement, daunceth bare and breechelesse, without all honesty: I will yet pose you further, and bid you call your wits together to answer me. Whether had you rather grant that so holy a Pope as Clemens was, did err, or • hat he was a false knaw that would father an error upon so holy a man's name and credit? your Syr Clemens decreeth that the fortyeth day must be observed for the departed, according to the old form because the people did so observe the bewailing of Moses. But if the scripture affirm that the people bewailed Moses but 30. days Deut. 34. Then is your Clement a falsyfier of God's word, and his foolish decree built upon his false ground. How say you now M. Allen is this Apostolic or apostotatical? is this plain dealing or Popish counterfecting? was Clemens in the Apostles age so ignorant of the scripture? or was he an ignorant hypocrite that feigned this under the name of Clemens ? Truth seaketh not to be maintained which lies, faith looketh not to be defended by falsehood. The Church of Christ craveth no counterfected authority to establish her doctrine. Therefore it is neither truth, nor faith, nor the doctrine of the Church of Christ, that you maintain, defend, and establish by lying, falsyfying and counterfecting, but error, infidelity, and heresy, he therefore that will forsake the certainty of God's word to build upon the traditions of men, for leuing the only pathe of truth, hath a just reward to fall into the pit of error.

5 You had been as good to have left out the comparing of Augustine's oblations with Tobies alms borde, for that custom which most resembled your fantasie of Tobies alms borde Augustine condemneth where he alloweth oblations for them that sleep to profit some what. Sed quoniā istae in caemiterijs ebrietates & luxuriosa conuiuia, non solùm honores martyrum in carnali & imperita plebe credi solent, sed etiam solatia mortuorum, mihi videtur facilius illic dissuade • i posse istam foeditatem ac turpitudinem, si & de scriptures prohibeatur, & oblationes pro spiritibus dormientium quas vere aliquid adiuuare credendum est super ipsas memorias non sunt sumptuosae &c. But because this dronkennesses, and riotous festes used in the Church yeardes of the carnal and unskillful people are wont to be believed not only to be the honor of the martyrs, but also the comfort of the dead, my think it were more easy, that this filthiness and beastlynesse may be there disuaded, if both it be forbidden out of the scriptures, and that the oblations for the spirits of the dead, which truly we must believe doth help somewhat, upon the memories them selves be not sumptuous &c. But if Augustine had known the horrible abuses which grew afterward, by permission of these oblations, he would as well have prohibited them out of the scripture as that hethenish banquettinge in the Church yeardes in honor of the martyrs, as for comfort of dead men's souls. As for Clement that teacheth the priests and deacones to be sober and moderate in eating, where they were bidden to burial feasts, even here also he showeth him self in his own colors. As though in the days of Clemens, when the Church was in great persecution, they had nothing else to do, but to keep sumptuous feasts at their burials, where at the priests, and deacons, were in danger of glouttony & drunkenness, as they were in the Popish church when Popery was in the pride, seldom temperate or sober, and lest of all at burials, and months minds &c.

CAP. VII.

1 HItherto, but that you love to tell your chickens before they be hatched, you need not greatly to boast of your winnings. But now you will show, that prayer and alms helpeth not them that die in mortal sin, and that beside your Clement, with whose cloths you cloy your book, you would fain prove out of y ^e Epistle of S. John cap. 5. For that which S. John speaketh of the prayers that Christian men make for their brethren alive, whom they see to sin, but not unto death, you would take if you could, for prayers to be made for them that are dead, but passed not hence in deadly sin▪ & that which he saith of prayers not to be made for them that sin not unto death, you ween he meant of them that are known to pass hence in continuance of sin. But you that dare not presume to make any interpretation without authority of the old Martyrs, when all cometh to all, have none to father your new exposition upon, but Denys the charterhouse Monk, a yesterdayes bird. But seeing you are not only void of all ancient authority, but also have all the old writers against you, that ever interpreted or alleged this place, let us see what is your reason. Forsooth the letter well weighed, maketh much for you, by the way it may be noted, that you call the word of God the letter, in that sense that S. Paul saith the letter killeth, but I omit that gross contumely against the holy Scriptures, where S. Paul saith the letter killeth, he meaneth not that the holy Scriptures killeth in which is contemed life, but that the law which only commandeth and giveth no power to fulfill it pronounceth sentence of death to them that break it. But to follow your reason. There is no crime so grievous, that man may commit in this life, but the Church prayeth for it & is often heard: therefore it may be thought that the party must be deceased of whom such diversity of deserts doth arise. I deny your antecedent: For the church of Christ, prayeth not for them that sin against the holy Ghost, & our Savior Christ affirmeth that he which sinneth against the holy Ghost shall never be forgiven, who so ever pray for him, and of such saith S. John, that there is a sin unto death, for which we ought not to pray. Samuel was not heard when he prayed for Saul, 1. Sam. 16. Jeremiah is oftentimes forbidden to pray for the obstinate Jews, Jer. 7.11. & 14. And the Lord testifieth, that if Noah, Daniel and Job prayed for the wicked, they should not be heard. Ezek. 14. Therefore there be sins for which the Church ought not to pray, and though she should pray, yet she should not be heard, even of men remaining in this life, your second reason (as I conceive it) is, that so long as men are in • his world, they may repent, & then sin is not to death. Therefore S. John meaneth, that they that died without bond of deadly sin are to be prayed for: your antecedent as before is false, for the Apostle to the Hebrews the sixth chapter, showeth that there be some which sin so horribly in this life, that it is impossible for them to be renewed by repentance. So that your exposition being both void of authority, and contrary to the manifest word of God, of none that is wise, or godly can be received. Beside this the whole context of S. John's words do plainly declare, that he speaketh of prayers for the brethren that are living, and not for them that are dead. But I am to blame to spend so many words in a matter so manifest. If the holy Ghost had ever allowed prayer for the dead, he would once at the lest have uttered the same plainly, in holy canonical Scriptures. But Tertullian, as wise a man as M. Allen, affirmeth (as we heard before) that prayer for the dead, hath no foundation in the Scriptures.

2 All this discourse is needless, to prove that prayers profit, not the infidels, or the impenitent, against them that believe that the souls of the faithful & the repentant are where Christ is, as he prayeth John. 17. Father I will that those whom thou hast given me where I am they also may be with me, that they may see my glory. And even so he saith to the thief no perfect just man, but a sinner repentant: This day thou shalt be with me in Paradise Luke 23. And S. Paul desireth to be dissolved and to be with Christ Philip. 1. This is the faith of the Church, of Christ, and these be the grounds of our faith, void of all doubtfulness, obscurity, sophistry and variable sentence of deceivable men: built vpō the certain foundation of the eternal word of God: The authority of Augustine proveth that the Church prayed not in his time for the spirits of infidels. But the Council Bracharense (as afterward I shall more plainly show) doth insinuate that no prayers were made at all, for the souls of the departed in their Church at their burials, but only a remembrance of them in prayers with thanksgiving and singing of Psalms. For purgatory should seem had not yet traveled into spaine. But touching this assertion of M. Allen, that those which die out of the favor of God, as infidels and such like, are not to be prayed for, whose pain can neither be finished, nor one moment released, or lessened by any of these means: what say you then to Gregory the first, bishop of Rome, which with his vehement prayer as your own Damascene and many others do witness, delivered the soul of Traianus the heathen Emperor from Hell: whereof there riseth a great controversy among your doltish divines, some affirming, that he was delivered out of Hell in deed, some that he remaineth still in Hell, but not in the torm • nts of Hell, in which opinion is Matthew monk of Westminster in his Flores historiarum Anno gratiae 605. How shall we believe the book of Conformities of S. Frances, who is there reported to have delivered not one but many souls out of Hell. If these be fables and lies M. Allen, they be forged in your own shop, whereas purgatory & all such other rotten posts and pillars of your Church were received. If these be true, that be set forth with so great authority, then were not you well advised to publish such principles as be proved false by your own patrons & proctors.

3 These matters stand all upon a false supposition, that any prayers are available for the dead, which when it cannot be proved, it is in vain to show who taketh profit by them, who not, who more and who less, and what becometh of those prayers that be offered for either them that need no help, or that cannot be helped. We learn out of God's word, that what so ever we do pray for according to God's will we shall obtain. 1. John. 5. therefore this one hatchet shall cut asunder all these knottes, prayers for the dead are not according to the will of God, and therefore they are not heard at all, for immediately after death, as M. Allen him self confesseth, followeth judgment, but prayers either need not or boot not, when the party is either aquitted or condemned by the sentence of the judge, which as Augustine saith cannot be indifferent between reward, & punishment. De libero arbitrio. lib. 3. cap. 23.

4 Now cometh a cumbersome case, that whereas he had affirmed before in the beginning of this capter, that there is no crime so grievous that man may commit in the course of this life, but the Church useth prayers accustomably therefore, in which affirmation he includeth sin against the holy Ghost also, now he findeth in Cyprian, a place, where prayers and sacrifice as he thinketh, were denied to him, which had committed but a small fault in it self, and such as Priests do nowadays commonly incur, namely to be an executer of men's testaments. But the matter seemeth to be far otherwise then M. Allen doth take it. Cyprian in the 6. Epistle of his first book, reporteth that there was a decree made in the assembly of the Church, before his time, that no brother departing out of this life, should name any of the clergy to be his executor, or overseer of his will. Ac si quis hoc fecisset non offerretur pro eo, nec sacrificium pro dormitione eius celebraretur. Neque enim ad altare Dei meretur nominari, in sacerdotum prece, qui ab altari sacerdotes & ministros suos Leuitas auocare voluit, & ideo, &c. And if any had done so, there should be no offering for him nor sacrifice for his falling a sleep (so they called departing out of this life) should be celebrated. For he is not worthy to be named at the alter of God in the prayer of the Priests, which would call away his Priests & ministers the Levites from the alter. And therefore seeing Victor, contrary to the form given by the Priests in council was so bold to make Geminus Faustinus an elder his executor, there is no cause that oblation should be made among you for his falling a sleep, or that any prayer in his name should be frequented in the Church, &c. By these words it appeareth first that Cyprian in these terms, sacrifice, Priest, alter, alludeth to the sacrifices of thanksgiving in the law, because he useth also that name of Levites by which he calleth God's ministers. For as for the sacrifice propitiatory, was offered in the law, only by the high Priest once in the year. So that he meaneth no other oblation or sacrifice for the dead but the sacrifice of thanksgiving, which was for their godly departure. And therefore he calleth it not a sacrifice for their sins, but for their falling a sleep. And by prayer he meaneth nor prayer for delivery of the dead out of purgatory, but as Origen saith for the faithful living, to have the like godly departure as he had that was fallen a sleep. And therefore he saith not, that such a one is not worthy to be prayed for, but he is not worthy to be named in the prayer, which was made for them that remained to ende their days happily, as such a one, or such a one whose names were recited in those memories, had already fulfilled their course. For otherwise, what so ever M. Allen iangleth of the severity of the churches discipline, if they had thought the souls of the departed to be in so great torments, and that prayer and sacrifices had been such a necessary help for them, it had been • o much cruelty for one offense & that not so great, either to condemn a man to so horrible punishment, or to deny him utterly all manner of help and comfort. The discipline of the Church when it is most severe, is to bring to repentance them that are in life, not to rage against them that are dead which cannot repent. Nor to reject any man utterly, but him that is certainly known to be utterly forsaken of God. But this Geminius Victor of whom Cyprian thus writeth, was a good Christian, in so much that Cyprian him self calleth him his brother. Geminius Victor frater noster de saeculo excedens. Our brother Geminius Victor departing out of this world, &c. Wherefore if the punishment had extended to the torment of his soul, or the hindrance of relief unto his soul being in torments, the Church would not have been so rigorous against a faithful brother, for maintenance of their own decree, which was not expressly forbidden by the word of God. Wherefore it may appear that this punishment, was only a note of ignominy to Victor him self for his transgression at his departure, & especially an example for the rest of the brethren (as Cyprian saith) that they cal not away the ministers of God from his service, to worldly affairs, lest they be likewise noted of infamy when they are dead.

5 And here now our adversary must occupy his goose quill, like the gooses trumpet to awake us to answer him, as though we were a sleep, or he so well appointed to fight against us, we must be asked howe we can away with this gear. Surely as the sun is not obscured with the dust that a cock casteth up whē he scrapeth on the dunghill, no more is the son of righteousness our only full redemption, or the light of his holy word darkened by all the myste of men's devises, which Allen or his complices can raise out of the whole heap of superstition and error, to deface the glory of his truth. The Lord is our light and salvation, therefore we will not be a feared of purgatory. The word of the Lord is a light unto our steppes and a lantern unto our feet, therefore we will not walk in the darkness of men's traditions. Our works and doctrine shall one day be tried before God, and therefore we make no accompt how we be judged by man's day, and lest of all by such a man's dome, as hath his tongue more ready to rail and slander, then his heart instructed to discern and judge. your way is your own way, and not the way of the Lord, and because you take another way unto salvation, then the only right way Jesus Christ, therefore by his own sentence, you are all thieves and murderers. But because you gather your forces together to show the strength of your cause, I will also generally show your feebleness, to the overthrow of your purpose. The course of your cause you say so agreeth with it self. What else? To prove that there is purgatory, you urge the satisfying of God's justice so extremely, that beside the suffering of Christ and forgiveness of sins, yet there must needs be a suffering of the party that offended. But when you will show by what means this suffering may be either mitigated or clean taken away: you clean take away the extremity of God's justice which before you so earnestly maintained. O worthy agreement of your cause with it self. Beside the agreement with it self it so standeth with reason. Suerly howe reasonable so ever it seemeth to you, that the merits of men should win, that which the merits of Christ could not win: that the suffering of men should satisfy, for that which the suffering of Christ could not satisfy with the justice of God, to them that have there reason rightly reformed it seemeth altogether unreasonable, ( So upholden with scripture. ) Never once mentioned in scripture, and so confessed by Tertullian, one that leaned to some parte of your cause: (so he ordered in all pointes.) So patched together like a beggars cloke with so many peeses of so many colors, one patch out of Tertullian, another out of Augustine, another out of Gregory, another out of Damascene, many stolen out of the monks cowle, and said to be given by Clemens, Athanasius, and such like, some rent away violently against the owners willes, as from Origen, Cyprian, the Councils of Vase, and Carthage, and no small peeses out of drowsy dreams, and mockadoe miracles, narrations, and relations &c. I promise you a goodly ordered cause. But of Cyprians time we must say the truth and shame the devil, so we will and shame the Pope to, his eldest son. It was such time M. Allen, as Cyprian bishop of Carthage, thought him self equal with Cornelius and Stephanus bishops of Rome. 1. lib. epist. 1. cap. 4. de simplicitate praelatorum &c. It was such a time that Cyprian taught, that faith only doth profit to salvation, To. 2. ad Quirin. cap. 42. And that he believed not in God at all, which placeth not the trust of all his felicity in him only. De duplici martyrio. Yea it was such time, that Cyprian would have nothing done in the celebration of the Lord's Supper, and namely in ministering of the cup, but that Christ him self did. lib. 2. epist. 3. And yet it was such a time also, as Cyprian and all the bishops of Africa decreed in Council, that those whcih were baptized by heretics, should be baptized again. And therefore it was no such time, but that he and all his fellows though they held the foundation of Christ, yet might and did err in some opinions, contrary to the truth of God's word. And where you ask whether the time of ignorance, that we limitte for our walk, doth rech so high as Cyprian his time, I would you knew we walk not in ignorance of any time, but in the known path of God's word, which is higher then Cyprians or any mortal man's time. But the time of ignorance which is limited for your walk, that call ignorance the mother of devotion, first is all beside the path of God's word, and then even from the time that the mystery of iniquity began to work. 2. Thess. 2. Even until the time that Antichrist was openly shown in the full power of darkness, in all times when so ever, and where so ever was any peese of miste, or dark corner (though all the rest were light) there were the steppes of your walk. As even in the Apostles time, when the superstition of Angels began to be received, there was one step of your way, which you hold even to this day Colos. 2. And from that time the devil never left to set in his foot, for his son Antichrists dominion, until he had placed him in the temple of God, and prepared the wyde world for his walk.

CAP. VIII.

1 NOwe the good catholic shall have wholesome doctrine taught him, concerning the sacrifice of the mass, which first cometh in place of the sacrifices of the law, and that sacrifice which Judas Machabaeus procured to be made at Jerusalem. Well said M. Allen, shall the sacrifice of the mass shoulder out the sacrifice of Christ his death. The Apostle to the Hebrews teacheth us another lesson. cap. 10. that Christ offering but one sacrifice for our sins, and that but once. cap. 9. hath made perfect forever those that are sanctified: that our sins are taken away by that sacri •• ce, and therefore there is no more sacrifice for sins left. Wherefore it excuseth not, but increaseth your blasphemy, that you say the sacrifice of the mass is all one with the sacrifice of Christ his passion, which was but one sacrifice, and the same but once offered, and by that one oblation hath made perfect all them that receive any benefit by it. But Christ (you say) hath instituted this sacrifice to be offered up for the remembrance of his death, & the cleansing of our sins. Shew one word M. Allen out of the Scripture of any sacrifice instituted by Christ at his last supper, or else you are a most horrible and blasphemous liar. The holy Ghost saith we are sanctified by his will, thorough the offering of the body of Christ once made for all, and where remission of sins is, there is left no sacrifice for sin. Heb. 10. But you are not content to join your sacrifice of the mass, as an appendix unto the only once offered and no more offerable sacrifice of Christ his death, except you proceed and utterly deny all the force and benefit of the oblation of his bitter passion. For you say, that Christ in his last supper, not only gave to his Apostles, but also offered to God his father that body which was after betrayed, and that blood which was shed after also for remission of sins, being that sacrifice which should succeed the bloody offerings of the old testament. what place have you here left for the passion of Christ? O intolerable blasphemy. Christ offered up but one sacrifice, and that you affirm to be before his death: Christ offered but once and that you affirm to be at his supper. By that one sacrifice which Christ did once offer, he redeemed us from all our sins, and that you affirm to have been offered in the sacrament. Do you not now plainly exclude the death and passion of Christ and all the merits thereof? who can abide to hear you afterward, when you say that the sacrifice of the mass, is an application of the benefits of Christ his death unto us, when now you affirm that it is the continuance of that sacrifice which Christ offered and instituted before his death, who never offered but one sacrifice and that but once. O Lord these blasphemers are more worthy to be beaten down with thunderbolts, then their blasphemies so directly contrary to the holy Scriptures have need to be confuted with words.

2 Now we shall hear how many of the old writers call it a sacrifice, but he need not take all that pains, for we confess, that the celebration of the Lord's supper, is commonly, but improperly called of them a sacrifice: Howbeit they meant nothing less, then to set up a blasphemous alter, and new sacrifice, and priesthood against our Savior Christ the only priest, alter, and sacrifice of our redemption, as Augustine calleth him, but only there meaning was, that it was a remembrance and memorial of that only sacrifice with thanks giving for the same. Augustine de fide ad Petrum Diaconum cap. 19. showing the difference of the sacrifices of the old law, the only sacrifice of Christ, and the sacrifice of bread and wine, which the Church offered saith. In illis enim carnalibus victimis figuratio fuit carnis Christi, quā pro peccatis nostris ipse sine peccato fuerat oblaturus, & sanguinis quē erat effusurus in remissionem peccatorum. In isto autem sacrificio gratiarum actio, atque commemoratio est carnis Christi, quam pro nobis obtulit, & sanguinis quem pro nobis idem Deus effudit. For in these carnal sacrifices, there was a figuring of the flesh of Christ, which he being without sin, should offer for our sins, and of his blood, which he should shed for remission of our sins. But in this sacrifice, there is thanks giving and commemoration of the flesh of Christ, which he offered, for us, and his blood which the same God shed for us. In his 23. epistle to Boniface, he showeth, that sacraments, take the names of those things whereof they are sacraments, by a certain similitude and liknesse that they have unto the things, them selves whereof they are sacraments. And so the sacrament of Christ's sacrifice is called a sacrifice as after a certain manner the sacrament of Christ's body is the body of Christ, and the sacrament of Christ's blood is the blood of Christ, even as the sacrament of faith is faith &c. Chrysostom upon the Epistle to the Hebrews in cap. 10. Hom. 17. after he hath shown at large, the force of the only sacrifice of Christ once offered for all upon the Cross, declareth plainly how the sacrament of Christ's death in that time was called a sacrifice, which one testimony is sufficient to declare what all the fathers meant by abusing the name of sacrifice for the celebration of the Lord's Supper. Hoc autem quod nunc facimus in commemorationem quidem fit eius quod factum est. Hoc enim facite inquit, in meam commemorationem. Non aliud sacrificium, sicut pontifex, sed id ipsum semper facimus, magis autem recordationem sacrificij operamur. This that we do, we do it in remembrance of that which was done. For do this (saith he) in remembrance of me. We do not make another sacrifice, as the high priest, but the self same always, yea rather we work the remembrance of a sacrifice. The same thing in effect declareth Cyprian lib. 2. epist. 3. Et quia passionis eius mentionem in sacrificijs omnibus facimus (passio est enim domini sacrificium quod offerimus) nihil aliud quam quod ipse fecit facere debemus. And because in all sacrifices we make mention of his passion (for the sacrifice which we offer is the passion of our Lord) we ought to do nothing but that which he did. Here it is manifest that Cyprian calleth the sacrament a sacrifice, as he calleth it the passion of Christ, and the remembrance of his passion. Irenaeus also showeth that by the name of the sacrifice of the Church, he meaneth not the sacrifice of the Mass, which they call propitiatory for the sins of the quick and the dead but the sacrifice of thanks giving and prayers who writeth these words. lib. 4. cap. 34. Igitur non sacrificia sanctificant hominem, non enim indiget sacrificio deus sed conscientia eius, quae offert sanctificat sacrificium, pura existens & praestat acceptare deum quasi ab amico. Therefore these sacrifices do not sanctify a man, for God needeth no sacrifices, but the conscience of him that doeth offer being pure, doth sanctify the sacrifice, and causeth God to accept it as of a freinde. Justinus martyr also Dial. Cum Tryphone aduersus Iudaeos in plain words affirmeth, that the sacrifice of bread and wine which the Church offereth, is the sacrifice of thanks giving in remembrance of the passion of Christ. The like places might be brought out almost of all the old writers, but for tediousness, and yet to show how improperly some of them used the name of sacrifice, I will cite one place out of Ambrose, Ad virginem lapsam. Si fuisses communi sort defuncta flessent te modicum propter desiderium parents, sed exultassent granditer quia immaculatam praemiserūt virginem hostiam viuam, domino, propitiatricem suorum videlicet delictorū. If thou hadst died by the commō lotte, thy parents would have lamented a little for desire of thee, but they would have greatly rejoiced, because they had sent before them an immaculate virgins, a living sacrifice, propitiatory to the Lord for their sins. Here is the death of a virgins called a sacrifice propitiatory for sins, but very improperly. Therefore if the fathers have spoken anything improperly of the celebration of the Lord's Supper in calling it a sacrifice or by any like term, which have in other places expounded their meaning, to be only a remembrance, a commemoration, a thanks giving for the only true sacrifice of Christ's death which is the propitiation for our sins, we must not contrary to their meaning upon couller of their words set up a new and blasphemous sacrifice to deface the only sacrifice of Christ, much less break out into such open blasphemies, as this Allen doth, that affirmeth this sacrifice of the Mass, to be the only practice of Christ's eternal priesthood, according to the order of Melchizedek which the Apostle comparing Melchizedek with Christ in all things in which he was comparable, never teacheth as any parte of his priesthood Heb. 7. For that which they build upon, which make any resemblance of Melchizedechs offering of bread and wine, with Christ's institution, is a false ground, for Melchizedek did not offer but bring forth, not to God, but to Abraham and his company, not a sacrifice, but a refectiō of bread and wine: Hieronym confesseth that Melchizedek protulit panem & vinum ad Euaginum. & in Quaest. super Genesim. so doth Ambrose de misterijs initiandis ca. 8. so doth Augustine super titulū Psal. 33. Melchizedek brought forth bread and wine, yea the very vulgare translation hath proferens bringing forth. And that he brought it not forth to sacrifice, but to refresh the souldeirs of Abraham : Beside that it is plain by the text that Melchizedek being both a king and a priest, as a king liberally entertained Abraham and his army, and as a priest blessed him: we read also in scholastica historia. cap. 46. At vero Melchizedek rex Salem, obtulit ei panem & vinum quod quasi exponens Josephus ait: Ministrauit exercitui xemia, & multam abundātiam rerum opportunarum simul exhibuit, & super epulat benedixit deum qui Abrahae subdiderat inimicos. But Melchizedek king of Salem offered unto him bread and wine which Josephus expounding, saith, he ministered unto his army gifts of enterteinment and gave them also abundance of things necessary, and beside that feast he blessed God which had subdued unto Abraham his enemies. And out of doubt if the bringing forth of bread and wine had been any thing pertaining to the priesthood of Melchizedek, the Apostle to the Heb. 7. would not have omitted to have compared it with Christ. But of all others folies this is the greatest, that when the Papists have prated never so longe of the sacrifice of bread and wine, at the last, they will have no bread nor wine at all in their sacrifice: wherein they are not only contrary to those of the old writers which compare the celebration of the Lord's Supper, which sometime they call the sacrifice of bread and wine (and yet but a sacrifice of thanksgiving) with Melchizedechs bread and wine: but also they are contrary to them selves.

As for the rest of that railing, which he calleth a description of the new communion, might aptly and truly be verified of the new sacrifice of the mass. And that I may answer words with matter, I will urge the Papists to tell me, what we say or do in the celebration of the holy communion, which Christ commanded us not to say and do, or what Christ did or commanded us to do, which we do not therein? If all the dogged Papists in the world, be not able to show our default herein, as we have shown their infinite abuses and blasphemies, of their mass, then is our celebration the very true communion of the body and blood of Christ, and theirs a very wast of God's worship, a canker of religion, &c. and a very blasphemy of all blasphemies, that ever were uttered since the beginning of the world, whereby every scalde hedge priest, is made not only equal, but also superior to Christ him self, whom he presumeth to offer, who could not be offered by any, but by him self.

3 This part of the chapter, containeth nothing but blasphemous boasting and more then ruffianlike railing. First that the devil which loveth the mass better then he doth holy water, shall not abolish it until the last day and son of perditions appearing. I doubt not but the devil will do all that he can to uphold it, to the ende of the world, and whether he shall prevail or no I will not dispute, but this I will boldly affirm, because I have good warrant, that the son of perdition, who long ago appeared and is now already greatly wasted and consumed with the breath of Christ's mouth, which is his holy word, shall together with the mass, and all them that obstinately defend it, be utterly abolished at the glorious appearing of our Savior Christ in the ende of the world, and from thence forth with him be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, there to be burned with the devil and his angels world without end. 2. The. 2. Apoc. 19. & 20. Secondly he saith that our bare bread bord ministers, &c: shall not out face their Synagogue of Satan, which he calleth the Church of God. But the Lord's table with the bread and wine which we minister in remembrance of Christ's death, and blood shedding, which our ministers, Seniours or elders, and Bishops or superintendents, when they shall be all approved by the word of God, shall be able to abide the judgment of God and be allowed for disposers of his mysteries and ministers of Christ: when your alter, transubstantiation, renting of the Sacrament in pieces, robbing the people of the blood of Christ, worshipping of creatures, &c: with your Pope, Cardinals, Priests, Monks, Friers, Canons, Nuns and all the rest of that romish rabble, having no testimony out of the word of God, either of their names, or of the signification of their names, shall be condemned of heresy, hypocrisy, Idolatry, and blasphemy, and have the reward that to such horrible profaners of God's holy ordinance, appertaineth. Thirdly you boast that your church hath beaten down our prowders the Arians, Macedonians, Anabaptists. It was the Church of Christ, that overthrew those heretics, & not your Antichristian assembly of heretics. And therefore I tell you and be bold of it, that old rotten whore of Babylon your mother, in whose name you threaten us, as one privy of her mischievous and malicious devises, shall never bring to pass that pestilent plat form which was concluded against us in the conspiracy of Trent. The Lord shall maintain his Church, as he hath done hitherto, in spite of the devil and the Pope for all their cruelty, treason, perjury, truce breaking, and most unnatural murdering. But of all other blasphemies who can abide this? that your priesthood in the devils name, is confirmed by a fair oath, Psal. 110. O Lord who would ever have thought that any which professed the name of Christ, would ever have challenged unto them selves against Christ that which never any Turk or Jew durst presume to boast of. What will you leave to Christ O you hell houndes? when you take from him both his kingdom and his priesthood, yea his eternal divinity, and everlasting nativity. For unto whom so ever the priesthood is confirmed by oath, of him that said, Thou art a Priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek, to him is confirmed an everlasting kingdom and an everlasting priesthood: of the same it is said: The Lord said unto my Lord sit thou on my right hand until I make thy enemies thy foot stool: to the same it is said that The scepter of thy power: The Lord shall send out of Zion rule thou in the midst of thine enemies: finally take the priesthood confirmed with an oath and take the whole Psalm unto you. O Lucifer whether wilt thou clime? wilt thou not be content with the old Lucifer to be like unto the most highest, but wilt thou thrust down the most highest him self even the son of God from the right hand of his father, and sit at the right hand of God thyself? O ye that would see how Antichrist sitteth in the temple of God boasting himself • to be God, and exalted above all that is called God or worshipped as God, draw nere and hearken what he saith of him self, by one of his blasphemous mouths. Our priesthood is confirmed unto us by a fayer oath, Psal. 110. For seeing he allegeth the Psal. 110. to confirm his saying, he cannot excuse or qualify the matter by that general royal priesthood which all the children of God have through Christ their head, to offer up spiritual sacrifices unto God. 1. Pet. 2. Apo. 2. For that priesthood which he challengeth by oath, is to offer a sacrifice propitiatory, which he affirmeth the Popish priests to do in their Mass. But lest I might seem to do them wrong in denying unto them that priesthood, which is confirmed by oath Psal. 110. Let us here what the holy Ghost saith thereof Hebr. 7. And in as much as Christ was not made priest without the oath (where as they meaning the sons of Aaron were made priest without an oath, but he with the oath by him that said unto him, the Lord hath sworn & will not reap̄t thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek) by so much is Jesus made surety of a better testament. And among them many were made priests because they were not suffered to endure by reason of death, but he because he abideth forever, had such a priesthood as passeth not by succession. Wherefore he is able perfectly to save those that come unto God by him seeing he liveth forever, to make intercession for them. For such an high priest it became us to have, which is holy harmless, and undefiled, separated from sinners, and made higher then the heavens which needed not daily as those high priest, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, then for the people's: for that did he once for all when he offered up him self. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity: but the word of the oath that was since the law, maketh the son who is consecrated forever more. Mark well the plain words of this testimony, and judge indifferently, whether I charge them with greater blasphemy, then ensueth this there assertion, That there priesthood is confirmed by oath Psal. 110.

4 This collorable and hypocritical complaint containeth nothing for us needful for to answer, for the place of Cyprian, is answered already. But this may be demanded of him, seeing he calleth the sacrifice of the Mass the only ground of all religion and acceptable worship of God, what religion or worship God had before the Mass came into the world? But this is the howling of the merchantes for the decay of Babylon, because no man byeth their ware anymore: what so ever they pretend this is the cause of their mourning, and this lamentation shall be continued even unto hell fire, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth forever.

5 Not altogether out of hope yet, to find some foolish merchantes that will pay dearly for unprofitable wares, you comfort yourself after your complainte, exhorting men to procure the holy sacrifice for their friends and fellows. why M. Allen if there be either such necessity or such profit of that sacrifice, wherefore do not your priests without procurement offer it up to the uttermost advantage that may be had by it? But you must have procurers, yea you must have good pay masters, or else the old proverb must be true: No penny no pater noster. As touching the place of Chrysostom I have shown already by his own interpretation, that although he allow prayers for the dead used in time of the celebration which he calleth sacrifice: yet he alloweth no sacrifice in deed, but only a thanks giving in remembrance of the sacrifice of Christ. But where he saith it was decreed by the Apostles that in the celebration of the holy mysteries, a remembrance should be made of them that are departed, he must pardon us of crediting, because he cannot show it out of the acts and writings of the Apostles. And we will be bold to charge him with his own saying Hom. De Adam & Heua. Satis sufficere credimus quicquid secundum predictas regulas Apostolica scripta nos docuerunt, vt prorsus non opinemur Catholicum quod apparuerit prefixis sententijs contrarium: we think it sufficeth enough, what so ever the writings of the Apostles have taught us, according to the fore said rules, in so much that we compt it not at all Catholic, what so ever shall appear contrary to the rules appointed. And again In Genes. Hom. 58. Vides in quantam absurditatem incidunt qui diuinae scripturae canonem sequi nolunt, sed suis cogitationibus permittunt omnia. Thou seest into how great absurdity they fall, which will not follow the canon of holy Scripture, but permit all things to their own cogitations, but if we be further urged we will allege that which he saith, In Euan. John. Hom. 58. Qui sacra non vtitur Scriptura, sed ascendit aliunde: id est, non concessa via, fur est. He that useth not the holy Scripture but clymeth another way, that is by a way not allowed, is a thief. We may be as bold with Chrysostom, as he said he would be with Paul him self, in 2. ad Tim. ho. 2. Plus aliquid dica, ne Paulo quidem obedire oportet, si quid dixerit proprium, si quid humanum, sed Apostolo, Christum in se loquentem circumferenti. I will say somewhat more, we must not be ruled by Paul him self, if he speak anything that is his own, and anything that is human, but we must obey the Apostle whē he carrieth Christ speaking in him. Wherefore seeing it is certain by testimony of Justinus Martyr, that there was no mention of the dead in the celebration of the Lord's supper, for more then an hundredth years after Christ, we must not believe Chrysostom without Scripture, affirming that it was ordained so by the Apostles.

CAP. IX.

1 NOwe shall we have the practice and examples of the old fathers, concerning sacrifice and prayer for the dead. And here M. Allen before he cometh to the matter, maketh much a do to show how much more certain, the practice is, then the words of any doctor: because the words may be mistrusted, or wrested, the practice cannot be altered. As though he could show us any practice, but that which is uttered in their words, in which if there be any obscurity or improprietie, there shall be as great controversy of their works as of their doctrine, as they used the name of sacrifice in their teaching, so they use it, in declaring what they did practice according to their teaching. And therefore it is not worth a straw that M. Allen thinketh, we may know their meaning rather by their practice then by their words: except he could either in picture, or in vision, describe unto us everything that they did. But let us consider the examples of those things, which he bringeth in to prove that practice is more certain then words. First he cannot deny, but the words of Augustine and Theodoretus stand with us, that the sacrament of Christ's supper is a figure of his body and blood and not the same naturally. But the practice must expound the words, not to stand with us. For they did so carefully keep it, adore it, show it to be worshipped, prayed to it, yea they taught children to call it God and Lord, which they would not have done, if they had not believed it to be the very body of Christ. For this is cited 1. Theodoret. Dial. 2. in the margent. His words be not set down because they be directly against transubstantiation, and nothing favoring the gross imagined presence of Christ's body in the sacrament: for he calleth the sacrament signa mystica, the mystical signs, and the divine mysteries which represent the body of Christ, that is a true body and not fantastical or absorpt of the divinity as the Eutichians dreamed, wherefore it is plain that the adoration he speaketh of, is nothing else but the reverent estimation of the sacrament, to be that which by Christ it is ordained to be, and not any knocking or kneeling as M. Allen would have us believe. Augustine also upon the 98. Psalm is cited, belike to prove the adoration, who in deed, alloweth the adoration of the body of Christ whereof that is a sacrament, but neither can you prove out of that place, that he would have the sacrament honored, nor that the sacrament is the very body of Christ, but even in the same place speaking of the sacrament, he saith in the person of Christ, non hoc corpus quod videtis manducaturi estis, & bibituri illum sanguinem quem fusuri sunt qui me crucifigent. Sacramentum aliquod vobis commendaui, spiritualiter intellectum viuificabit vos. You shall not eat this body which you see, not drink this blood which they shall shed, which shall crucify me. I have commended to you a sacrament, which being spiritually understood shall quicken you. As for Dionysius because he is a coūterfect antiquity I will not vouchasafe to answer him. Basel in his book de spiritu sancto, cap. 27. hath these words: The words of invocation when the bread of thanks giving, and the cup of blessing is shown, which of the holy Apostles hath left us in writing? Before we go any further, I will take this by the way, that what so ever it was, that he spake of, it is not tought by the scripture, no more then many other ceremonies that he rehearseth in the same place. Howbeit it is plain enough, that he meaneth not, that the words of invocation were said unto the bread, or the cup, but unto God who was called upon to bless those his creatures, that they might be sanctified to the holy use of Christ his institution. The showing of the bread and the cup▪ was not to adore it (as M. Allen dreameth) for then he would have called it the body and blood of Christ, but either to stir up the people to pray effectually, or to admonish them that all things were ready that they might prepare them selves to communicate. And whereas he allegeth out of Augustine De Trinit. lib. 3. cap. 10. that children were taught to call it God and Christ, he shamefully abuseth his reader, for no such thing can be gathered out of Augustine's words, which are these: Illas etiam nubes &c. Now as touching those clouds or fire, howe the Angels did make them, or took them upon them to signify that which they did bring message of: Although the Lord or the holy Ghost was shown in these forms what man a live doth know? even as young children know not what is set on the altar, and when the celebration of piety is finished is spent out, whereof or how it is made, whereof it is taken into the use of religion? And if they should never learn by experience of their own, or of others, and never see that show of things but in the celebration of the sacraments, where it is offered and given and said unto them with most grave authority whose body and blood it is, they would believe nothing else but only that the Lord hath appeared to the eyes of mortal men in that liknesse, and that out of such a side being stricken that the same liquor did flowe. These words are plain that Augustine affirmeth that no man knoweth more of those shapes, in which the Angels did appear, then young children would imagine of the presence of Christ in the sacrament, if they were not otherwise instructed, then in telling them when they receive it, that it is the body of Christ. whereby the clean contrary to that which Allen affirmeth is plainly gathered, that children were otherwise instructed, first by experience, because they saw bread else where, then in the celebration, and also by doctrine, when they were able to understand that it was not the Lord him self in the shape of bread, but only a sacrament and representation of him. And by the way note here, one practice of a notable error in Augustine's time, that the sacrament of the Lord's supper was given to children, which wist not what it meant, contrary to the word of God, who requireth men to examine them selves before they receive it, wherefore if any other practice were in his time, or allowed by him contrary to God's word, we are no more bound unto it, then unto this, which even the Papists them selves will confess to be erroneous. Finally what the Christians did by that they were sclaundered with all, is a sory proof, they were sclaundered to have worshipped an Asses head, to kill men and eat them, to use all manner of beastliness in their metings. The rest of the practice that M. Allen nameth, without show of proof, I pass over as unworthy of answer. The practice of Gregory, although it were much more modest then of his successors, yet can it not be excused, but it was contrary to his doctrine whereby he reproved another in that he was not altogether clear him self. Bernard was but of late time, wherefore although he might note some abuses of the Mass, yet he might also say it him self, but how often I cannot tell. Touching Ambrose, which was sodeinely made a bishop, before he was a perfect Christian, if some steppes of hethenishe invocation or rethoricall apostrophees and prosopopees appear to be in him, and some other also about his time, yet was not that generally received of all the Church in his time, nor agreeable to the doctrine of S. Paul who showeth that we can invocate none but him in whom we believe, which to all true Christians is God only.

2 Why M. Allen? what a mockery is this? do you make brag in the title of your chapter, that you will show the practice of all holy men in words and prayers for the dead, and now begin your examples no higher then at Chrysostom's translation, which was well near 400. years after Christ? The people with great plenty of lights, brought Chrysostom's body to Constantinople. Well this ceremony in carrying torches at burials being taken of the Gentiles, they used to honor the memory of them that were dead, as the ceremonies of the Heralds are used for the same ende. What more? The Emperor prayed for his fathers and mothers souls, and as M. Allen thinketh (but the story saith not so) he prayed to S. Chrysostom for them. What else? Atticus caused mass to be said for him, that maketh up all. But where is any mention of mass or sacrifice of the mass M. Allen ? Are you such a cunning interpreter, to expound celebrare sacra solemnia to say mass? In deed such interpretations will help you well to find that, which else you might seek long enough in the old writers and go without for all your labor. It is all one with M. Allen, to celebrate holy solemn service, & to say mass. But you will say, memory was made of him in the prayers, so might there be and yet his soul not prayed for▪ but how agree you with yourself, M. Allen? your opinion is that Theodosius prayed to him as to a saint in heaven, howe then did Atticus cause him to be prayed for as one lying in purgatory? I wisse you forget yourself to much to utter things so contrary, so near together. And as for the funerals of Constantine and Constantius, what so ever you say, have no mention of Mass, nor sacrifice of Mass. In the burial of Constantine, there is mention of prayer for his soul according to the error of the time, and in the funerals of Constantius, there were lights, but there is also shown the use of them, as I have touched already together with the necessity of some of them, because they were lighted in the night. The saying of Chrysostom, with the example of the burial of Paula, show nothing either of Mass, sacrifice, or prayer for the dead. And whereas you bable of the rites of your popish dirige, Ieronym saith, all was singing of Psalms and giving thanks for her godly life & happy departing: Hebraeo, Graeco, Latino, Syro{que} sermon Psalmi in ordine personabant. Psalms were song in Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and Syrian language, by course as there were diverse nations that came to honor the solemnity of her funerals. Finally if your doctrine of purgatory were true, yet Ieronym describeth her to be so perfect a woman, as no prayers needed to be said for her, her life was so full of good works, and her ende so full of faith. And therefore M. Allen, here is nothing for the sacrifice of the Mass, whereof you made your promise to show the practice, in the chief partes of the world, naming Jerusalem for one, when Paula was buried at Betheleem and not at Jerusalem.

3 But let us now follow you into Africa. First you allege Augustine in his book de cura pro mortuis agenda, wherein he is so full of doubts, that he knoweth not him self, what to determine but that he will hold the common opinion received in his time. But this pasteth (M. Allen) that you will content yourself with Augustine's authority, that the pomp of burial, &c. profiteth not the dead, but that you will have lights, ringing, &c. proceeding of love and devotion, to help them, for whom they are procured. If you may go beyond Augustine, why may not we come short of him? But in the 18. chapter, he nameth the sacrifice of the alter, to be profitable to the dead. This soundeth somewhat like the matter, but if it be well marked, it maketh nothing for the propitiatory sacrifice of the Mass, for even in the same place, he calleth it the sacrifice of alms, which is but a sacrifice of thanks giving. And that by this sacrifice he meaneth not the body of Christ, nor a propitiatory sacrifice is manifest in his book de fide ad Petrum diaconum, cap. 19. where he saith, that Christ offered him self for us, that sacrifice whereby God was reconciled, and that the Church offered to Christ the sacrifice of bread and wine in faith, and charity, which is a thanks giving and memorial of his death. The body of Christ is not offered to him self, but thanks giving is offered to him for the offering of his body for us. His words are. Firmissime tene & nullatenus dubites, ipsum vnigenitum, &c. Hold most steadfastly and nothing doubt then, that the only begotten son of God, being made flesh, offered him self for us a sacrifice & oblation for a sweet favor unto God to whom with the father and the holy Ghost by the Patriarchs, Prophets and Priests in time of the old Testament, beasts were sacrificed: and to whom now, that is in the time of the New Testament, together with the father and the holy Ghost, with whom his divinity is all one, the holy Catholic Church, throughout all the world, ceaseth not to offer the sacrifice of bread and wine in faith and charity. For in these carnal sacrifices there was a figuring of the flesh of Christ, which he him self being without sin should offer for our sins. But in this sacrifice there is thanks giving & commemoration of the flesh of Christ which he offered for us and of his blood which the same God shed for us. Now for the other point of invocation of Saints, M. Allen affirmeth, that S. Augustine never doubteth but intercession may be made unto them for the dead, who so ever will take pains to read the treatise de cura pro mortuis agenda, shall find nothing else but doubts and questions of that matter, as cap. 5. Cum ergo mater fidelis filij defuncti corpus desyderauit in Basilicam martyris poni, si quidem credidit eius animam meritis martyris adiuuari, hoc quod ita credidit supplicatio quaedam fuit, & haec profuit si quid profuit. Therefore when the faithful mother desired the body of her faithful son departed to be laid in the Church of the Martyr, if she believed that his soul might be helped by the metites of the martyr, this that she so believed was a certain supplication, and this profited if anything profited. Here Augustine doubteth whether supplications to the Martyr profit anything or no. Moreuer he cannot tell, how the Saints departed should know our necessities or hear our prayers, cap. 15. Proinde fatēdum est nescire quidē mortuos quid agatur, sed dum hic agitur, postea vero audire ab eis qui hinc ad eos moriendo pergant. Wherefore it must be confessed, that the dead truly know not what is done here, while it is a doing, but afterward do here it of them, which by death do pass from hence unto them. Wherefore if we will have anything unto them, we must tarry until some dead may carry our passage, and it must be such a one also, as knoweth our case, or else we are never the near. Possun • & ab angelis qui rebus quae aguntur hîc praesto sunt audire aliquid mortui. It may be also that the dead here some what of those Angels which are present at such things as are done here. cap. 16. Quanquam ista quaestio vires intelligentiae meae vincat, quemadmodum opitulantur martyrs ijs quos per eos certum est opitulari. Although this question passeth the strength of mine understanding howe the martyrs help them whom it is certain to be helped of them. These places and the whole discourse of that book, doth prove, that although Augustine were willing to meinteine the superstition that was not thoroughly confirmed in his time, about burials and invocation of Saints, yet he hath nothing of certainty out of the word of God, either to persuade his own conscience, or to satisfy them that moved the doubts unto him.

4 All this while we have weighted for dirige, and Mass, according to your promise, and now belike we shall have it out of S. Hieronyme I trow. But who will grant you, that the commontary upon the proverbs out of which you allege your testimony, is Hieronyms work? The old copies in parchment, as Amerbachius confesseth, declare that Beda was the author of it. Which you cannot utterly deny yourself, but all is one with you. But so it is not with us, to brag of S. Hieronyms authority and then to allege one that is 400 years younger then he. But either of their judgments weyeth more with you, then any one man's a live, beware what you say, do you not esteem the Popes judgment more than either Bede or Ieronym ? but perhaps you will answer me that the Pope is no man. Nec Deus es nec homo quasi neuter es inter vtrum{que}. Thou art neither God nor man, but a neuter between both, you know who writ this verse unto the Pope, and how it is allowed for catholic in the book of the Popes canon law. Well passing over Bede, we will come to Ambrose, who in deed alloweth prayer for the dead, as it was a common error in his time, but not the sacrifice of the Mass, in that sense the Papists do. I have shown before, howe improperly he useth the name of sacrifice, as in his book de virginibus, lib. 1. Virgo matris hostia est, cuius quotidiano sacrificio vis diuina placatur. A virgins is the oblation of her mother, by whose daily sacrifice the wrath of God is pacified. But speaking expressly of the celebration, he showeth that Christ is not offered but by him self, and that the oblation which is here made of him is but in an image and representation Officiorum cap. 48. Hic in imagine, ibi in veritate vbi apud Patrem pro nobis quasi aduocatus interuenit. Here he is offered in representation, there in deed, where he maketh intercession for us with the father as an advocate. As for the oblations which he nameth in the 8. Epistle to Faustinus, be nothing but prayers. For as he doth but vary his words, where he saith weeping and mourning which are all one, even so it is all one where he saith prayers and oblations. And whereas you say there are none of our new Bishops will follow Ambrose in such kind of letters, they can show better reason not to follow him where he went amiss, then your popish Prelates can show not to follow him where he writ well. which of your Prelates will follow him in his commentary upon the epistle to the Romans? where he so often affirmeth that a man is justified before God by faith only. Or in his commentary upon the Apocalypse, where he interpreteth the whore of Babylon to be the city of Rome, or where he affirmeth that not Peter but the faith & the confession of Peter, is the foundation of the Church: and that the primary of Peter was a primacy of faith not of honor, of confession not of authority, or higher order. De incarnate. Dom. cap. 4. & 5. or in an hundredth places of his writings beside. The other places that you allege out of Ambrose & Paulinus, do not so much help your purpose with prayer for the dead, as they are contrary to your doctrine concerning purgatory. For Ambrose praying for Theodosius, calleth him a perfect servant of God, but you hold that perfect men come not at all in purgatory, and therefore you have qualified the matter by translating perfecto famulo to thy good servant. Gratianus was not baptized, and therefore by your doctrine he should not come in purgatory, but strayt to hell As for the words that Ambrose speaketh of oblations for his brother Satyrus, you do shamefully wrest them contrary to his meaning. For he was so far of from believing his brother to be in purgatory, that he prayeth to him as a Saint in heaven, and the oblation and sacrifice that he offereth to God, is the soul of his brother, and not prayers or masses for his soul. Tibi nunc omnipotence Deus inno xiam commendo animam, Tibi hostiam meam offero, cape propitius ac serenus fraternum munus, sacrificium sacerdotis, haec mei iam liba praemitto. To thee now O Almighty God I commend his innocent soul, to thee I offer my sacrifice, receive mercifully and favorably this gift of a brother, and sacrifice of a Priest, this sacrifice as a part of myself, I now send before me. By which words as it is evident that he meaneth not the sacrifice of the mass, so it is manifest howe licentiously he used the name of sacrifice & oblation, that we may know when he speaketh of the sacrifice of the body of Christ, he meaneth not so grossly as the Papists take it and use it them selves.

5 The words of Paulinus import, that he thought those whom he prayed for were in hell, howe so ever you dissemble it by translating inferna the nether partes, and dare not rehearse his words unto Delphinus: where he judgeth them that were prayed for to be. where the rich man was that desired refreshing of Lazarus. For purgatory in those days was but even a breding, & yet not thoroughly shaped out of prayers for the dead, and such other superstitious ceremonies as were used about the departed.

6 I have sufficiently already declared what Augustine meaneth by the sacrifice of the altar, the sacrifice of our price, the sacrifice of bread, and wine, and what so ever name he giveth it beside. He meaneth nothing else, but the sacrifice of thanks giving for the only propitiatory sacrifice of Christ, whereof the celebration of the sacrament is an effectual memorial, and lively remembrance. In Celebration of which sacrament although the superstitious error of that time allowed prayers for the dead generally, or special remembrance of any in the prayers, yet is it not the belief of S. Augustine, nor of any other in that time, that the sacrament was the natural body and blood of Christ, nor that the natural body of Christ was there sacrificed, as a propitiation of the sins, either of the living or the dead. Seeing therefore that he hath so plainly expounded, what he meaneth by the name of sacrifice, as I have shown in the beginning of this chapter: it is to much folly, upon these improper, but yet in that time usual terms, to go about to build such blasphemous doctrine, as afterward g • ue to be maintained (perhaps by occasion of such improper speech as then was used) of the sacrifice of the Mass, and propitiation both of the quick and the dead. But that I may consider these places particularly, whereof you make so great accompt: First where you will us to take our advantage of your translation, I say you have falsyfied Augustine's words and meaning in the latter ende of the first sentence, to make fools believe that the private Mass was said in Augustine's days, as it is among you. First you call memoriam sui fieri ad altare which is that remembrance of her should be made at the altar: that a memory might be kept for her, as though she would have her son to be a chauntry priest to sing for her, &c. Item you translate vnde sciret dispensari victimam sanctam, where she knew the holy host was bestowed, as though she had meant nothing, but that the host was laid upon the altar where as you should have said, from whence she knoweth the holy sacrifice was dispensed or ministered, by which words it is manifest that the communion was daily received not of the priest alone, but of all them that were present. You are as bold as one of your wisdom may be with such a man, to will M. Grindall to look in his grammar for Augustine's figures, but if I may be so bold with so profound a clearke as you are, I would desire you to look in the etymologies of your grammar, whether sui, be, for her, and vnde where. And if you cannot prove these significations, by that parte of grammar which is called Etymology, that you would defend them by that part of cunning where in you are better learned, called Pseudologia : but to the matter of this testimony, we have in this first remembrance of her, in the next we have the sacrifice of our price offered for her. In deed this soundeth more like the matter you would have: if S. Augustine had not before in plain words expounded his meaning, which is nothing else, but that the communion was celebrated, in ministration of which there was special remembrance of her in the prayers, as there was of all dead in the saith a general memory. And if you ask me what figure S. Augustine used, though I could refer it to diverse figures, yet it may best be excused by Acyrologia, which is an improper kind of speaking, to call that the sacrifice of our price, which was but a thanks giving for the sacrifice of our price, which Christ only offered once for all upon the alter of the cross. As Augustine him self when he speaketh properly will confess. The other two places prove nothing but prayer for the dead used by Augustine. But that you may see all this was but superstition or will worship in him: he him self in a manner confesseth as much in the same place, where he prayeth most earnestly lib. Con. 9. cap. 13. Et credo quod iam feceris quod rogo, sed voluntaria oris mei approba Domine. And I believe that thou hast done already that which I pray for, but Lord approve this voluntary offering of my mouth. His meaning is to allude to the free will offerings of the law, but in deed he declareth that he prayed not according to the rule appointed by God, but according to the corrupt motion of his own mind. As for the place of Possidonius proveth plainly, that it was the sacrifice of thanks giving that was offered for the commendation of the godly and quiet deposition or putting of, of his body, which he before describeth. In steed of which M. Allen translateth, for commendation of his rest as though he had been out of rest, & saith, that not withstanding his holy life and godly departure, yet even that day the city was taken, had oblation for his rest, But if the men of those days had been of M. Allens opinion concerning purgatory, they would not both have compted Augustine for a perfect man, and yet after his death to doubt of his rest. Finally, where he boasteth, that none were saved in those days, but in this faith, he followeth his own vain of lying, and not any proof of ancient writing. For although they were in that time infected with some errors, and that not so great as he chargeth them withal: yet was the faith of their salvation in the only foundation Jesus Christ, and not in merittes or Masses, pardons or pilgrimage, but in the only mercy of God. Tota spes mea (saith Augustine) non nisi magna valde misericordia tua. Da quod iubes & iube quod vis lib. con. 10. cap. 29. Al my hope is nothing else but thy exceeding great mercy. Give that thou commaundest, & command what thou wilt.

CAP. X.

1 THe examples out of Gregory or Damascene, you may spare for your friends, there is none of us, that maketh great accompt of them, and yet neither Gregory nor Damascene, were so gross in their error of prayer for the dead and purgatory, as you: but where you brag of such choice, that you can bring enowe out of what writer so ever we like best: you should passing well provide for the credit of your cause, and the discredit of ours, if out of so great store, you would help us with something out of Justinus Martyr, Irenaeus, Clemens Alexandrinus, or any Authentical writer, which lived within one hundredth years after the Apostles age. But when you begin with Chrysostom's burial, and yet cannot prove that which you pretend, all men may well think, and they which have red the old writers know, you cannot reach so high for all your proud promises. But you will do that, which shall be as good, you will show that we and all nations received these usages of praying and sacrificing for the departed, at our first conversion to the faith. you shall do a great piece of work, and such as no Papist yet, was ever able to do. You shall be a Cardinal if you can do it, yea you shall convert all the Protestants to the Catholic Church of Rome. Go too man, begin. Take the history of the Acts of the Apostles into your hands, in which mention is made of the conversion of many nations to Christ's faith, show that the usage of praying & sacrificing for the dead, was received of them or any of them. Come of quickly, or all the world will say you are but a prating merchant. But you will begin with the conversion of our nation. Go to take Gildas into your hand, which testifieth that the Gospel was preached in this lande in the reign of Tiberius the Emperor: prove unto us that Paul or Simon or Thaddeus or Joseph or who so ever first preached the Gospel in this Ilande, tought prayers or sacrifices for the dead, Prove it I say, and the day is yours forever, if you prove it not, as neither you nor the devil for you is able to do it: the world may see, your swelling brags to be nothing but blown bladders or bubles, in which there is nothing but air, as your words are nothing but wind, yet are you not ashamed, to name Gildas, who, as about the first conuersiō of the Britaynes to the faith he hath no word of any such matters, so where he complaineth of there ruyne and decay, he accuseth the priests of his time for sieldome sacrificing, but of sacrificing for the dead he speaketh not, although the error of praying for the dead were received in other places and whether this country were free from it I am not able to say, nor you to prove, that it was infected with it. And therefore having nothing to show for six hundredth year • almost, in which this lande was never void of Christians, you come in at last with the perversion of the Saxons, by Augustine that proud cruel and unlearned monk, of whose pride and cruelty our stories do testify at large: his ignorance and unskillfulness is bewrayed by him self, in his writings to Pope Gregory. I force little what miracles he wrought to cōfirm his errors, neither do I way worth a fly that longe tale you tell, out of Beda, of him that had his cheines fallen o • in Mass time. That credulous and superstitious age, had many such feigned miracles. 500 such tales are toulde in vitas patrum, serm. discipuli, legenda aurea, the festival &c. But make you no more accompt of Beda his grave authority then of those feigned fables? surely I make this accompt of Beda, that if he had reported the matter of his own knowledge, I would have credited the fact done, and yet tending to the maintenance of false doctrine I would never the sooner have been moved from the truth of God's word. But when he reported it only of hear say, and that not of the parties them selves that might have been witnesses, but of them that heard this one man tell it by him self, it carrieth small credit with it. I believe that such a tale was told to Beda, but what if they added some what to it that told him, and what if he that told them lied? if Beda had not been over light of credit him self, he should not have put it in writing, before he had perfect intelligence, not only of the party him self, but also of that Londiner and gentleman, and those that kept him in prison. But how so ever the matter wear true or false, it is no proof nor prejudice against the truth of God uttered in the holy scriptures. Let Augustine speak for us in his book ae vnitate ecclesiae, against the Donatists, which boasted of miracles, as the Papists do, but Augustine will not allow them for sufficient proves without the authority of the scriptures, non dicat verum est quia ego hoc dico, aut quia hoc dixit ill collega meus, aut illi collegae mei, aut illi episcopi vel clerici, vel laici nostri, aut ideo verum est quia illa & illa▪ mirabilia fecit Donatus vel Potius vel quilibet alius, aut quia homines ad memorias mortuorum nostrorum orant & exaudiuntur, aut quia illa & illa ibi contingunt, aut quia ill frater noster, aut illa soror nostra tale visum, vigilans vidit, vel tale visum dormiens somniauit &c. Sed vtrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant, non nisi diuinarum scripturarum canonicis libris oftendant &c, Let him not say it is therefore true, because I say it, or such a one my companion said it, or those my companions, or those our bishops, or clerks, or lay men, or it is therefore true because Donatus or Pontius or any other did these or those miracles, or because men pray at our dead men's memories and are hard, or because these or these things do happen there, or because this our brother or that our sister saw such a vision waking or dreamed such a vision sleeping, &c. but whether they hold the Church or no, let them show none otherwise but by the canonical books of the holy Scriptures. This place M. Allen if it might take place with you, might serve to cut of all controversies, not only of purgatory, but of the Church it self and what so ever is in question between us. But you are wise enough, you will never venture your cause upon that trial.

2 I am content to stay with you, and ponder as much as is meet, the conversion of the Saxons unto the faith of Christ. And first I say that you reason both falsely and foolishly, to prove that either all opinions were true, or else all false, that the Saxons received at there first conversion. For though prayer for the dead, and other superstitious opinions then received, were false, yet doth it not follow, that all that then was taught them for Christianity was false. For although Augustine had been void of all true articles of the faith, yet the bishops and Christian teachers of the Brytish nation, in whose aid they required, and at last obtained, to the converting of the Saxons, retained the foundation of faith Jesus Christ, and the only sacrifice of his death. And this was the faith that was received even of the Saxons, as appeareth by those homylies that yet remain in the Saxon tongue, appointed to be read unto the people for their instruction, and namely in that printed Saxone homylie, which was appointed to be read at Easter, where in is declared not only the faith of the Church at that time, concerning the sacrifice of Christ his death, but also that heresy of popish transubstantiation, and the real presence of Christ's body in the sacrament is pithily confuted. And therefore it is altogether untrue that you say (M. Allen) that they did institute a sacrifice to the defacing of our redemption, as you do: that they did adore the sacrament, as the natural body of Christ as you do: or counted it a •• opitiatory sacrifice for the quick and the dead as you do: although they used unprofitable prayers for the dead, and many other superstitions, Neither doth it follow, that all that taught or believed those errors, so long as they built upon Christ the only foundation, have perished, or that all they taught was false, because something was untrue: or that God hath deceived us with feigned miracles, which Satan hath shown to set up the kingdom of Antichrist even in the temple of God, with all lying signs and wonders, 2. Thes. 2. To conclude no truth is false, no virtue is vice, no good thing is evil, because all was not true, all was not virtue, all was not good, that was received and practiced among them.

3 There is nothing that you say in this parte, or that you can say in this respect, to prove that the religion here received was in all pointes holy, true, and acceptable to God, because it was in some and those the chief, but it may be said by the nations of the Goths and Vandalles, which were first converted from hethenish idolatry, to the profession of the name of Christ, by the Arian heretics, to defend that there religion was in all pointes holy, true, and acceptable to God, or by them that were converted by the Donatists, Nouations, or any other heretics. For although the Arians were blasphemous heretics, yet they tought many things truly and soundly concerning the faith of christianity. And therefore no more then the religion of the Arians, who first turned those nations was true in all pointes, though it were in many: no more I say was every article that was tought unto the Saxons, which were converted by superstitious Romanists, in all pointes true, notwithstanding that many things and the principal were true: So much therefore as may be justified by the word of God of that doctrine, is holy, true, and acceptable to God, but that which is cont • ary to the doctrine of the holy Scriptures, is neither received from God, nor Christ, neither hath it any testimony of his spirit, by what presumptuous words, o • appearance of signs and wounders so ever it be uttered. Neither is it any greater offense for the English men, to renounce the error of praying for the dead, or abusing the communion to the similitude of a sacrifice, or any other superstition, then or at any time after received: then it was for the Goths or Vandalles, to forsake the heretical and blasphemous opinions of the Arians, by whom they were first persuaded to reverence the name of Christ, or for any other that were turned by any heretics, to forsake their first errors, and give place to the truth after revealed unto them. And whereas you affirm, that we cannot deny, but that Mass, offering, alms, and prayer for the dead, were taught with the first, and proved by miracle with the rest: we may be bold to deny, that they were at y ^e first taught so grossly, as they be now maintained impudently. And as for miracles, I mean such as were prophesied, to be the efficacy of error in the kingdom of Antichrist, we will confess, that these and like errors had always great plenty to establish them, as they which had no authority out of the holy Scriptures to approve them.

4 This and almost all the rest to the ende of the chapter, might be as well the expostulation of the heathen men with the Apostles, or them that first preached the faith of Christ. Were there not as goodly building of temples, colleges, and universities among the heathen as are among us at this day? but all they were built and endowed by men of a contrary religion, doth it there • ore follow, that their religion was good, which erected such noble monuments, both of their common wealth and of their religion? Although it is most false that Allen affirmeth, that this doctrine founded all byshopprickes, built all Churches &c. but admit it were so, what argument were that to prove that his religion were true? Our stories testify, that at the first conversion of this lande to Christianity, in the time of Lucius, that arch flamines of the Pagans, were converted to archbyshopprickes. And the Pagan flamines, were converted to Bishopprickes, and so the temples of the Pagans were converted into the Churches of the Christians. Gregory also instructeth Augustine, how he should convert the temples of the Idolatrous Saxons unto the use of the Christian Churches. If these stories be true, then is it both false that M. Allen saith that his doctrine of Purgatory founded all Bishopprickes, Churches, &c. and also that all Bishopprickes, Churches, colleges, &c. must remain in the religion of them by whom they were first founded: he proceedeth further to charge all our superintendents of perjury, for not keeping their oath made in the university to pray for the dead. Let them that have made such oath answer for them selves, I am sure he lieth of many and of the most of them, for that oath was only in Oxeford for anything that I have heard which university hath yielded few to that place as yet. But it is certain, that your popish Bishops of Queen Mary's time, almost everyone and the chiefest, Bonner, Gardyner, Heth, Hopton, Therlebye, &c. were manifestly perjured, against that oath, which they took in K. Henry & K. Edward his days, to maintain the kings supremacy against the usurped power of the Pope. This all the world knoweth and therefore ye may be ashamed to accuse our superintendents of periurye, of whom I am sure you can name but a few that ever took the oth.

5 The same question you may demand of the fathers of the primitive Church, and in deed the same question or the like was demanded of them, and it is not so hard to answer as you imagine. Many of these Churches and colleges, yea the most notable cathedral Churches in England, were built for preachers of the Gospel and there wives to dwell in. Our stories are plentiful in that point, that they were the first inhabiters of them and afterward, as Idolatry, and superstition prevailed, were with all violence and injury expelled out of them, and monks placed in their steed. If you be so skillful in antiquity as you make yourself, you cannot be ignorant of this, which is testified by Ranulphus Castrensis, Mathaeus Westmonasteriensis the story of Peterburghe and many other. Now whether any meant to maintain preaching against Mass or prayers for their own souls, as we know not whether they did or no, so we compt it not material. Such livings as are appointed by the prince and the law for maintenance of them that preach the Gospel, we may enjoy with a good conscience without regard of their meaning, that first built the houses or possessed the lands. For we must not seek to learn our faith and religion out of their meanings and intents, but out of the word of God. And whether the builders of such places, be saved or damned, it pertaineth not to us to judge, nor to inquire. Such things as were well done of them, we would commend if they were heathen men, but if anything were evil in them, we may not allow it, though they were never so good.

6 Now as touching your vain supposing, if all such lands as were given to maintain prayers for the dead, or other like purposes, either good or supposed to be good should reuerte to the heyers of their first founders, for not performing the intent of the founders, perhaps few monasteries, colleges, or hospitalles, In Italy, Spain, France, or Flaunders, should enjoy • one half penny worth of their lands, or revenues. They meant, not only to be prayed for, but to be prayed for, by men of honester conversation then the greatest parte of those cloysterers are. They are too well known to the world, to be taken for that they be called, holy, religious, and chaste. But suppose as you said, that we had no manner of Churches to assemble in, though bishops wives be not able to build them, yet we doubt not but in the time of peace and tranquility, under godly princes, we should have as many and as fair built Churches as the religion of Christ hath need of. Have you not heard of the Churches built in Orleans and Antwerpe & other places by the professors of the Gospel. But if it were in time of persecution and tyranny, I doubt not, but all godly bishops, had rather serve in a french reformed barn, then in a popish gilded minster. And how so ever you jest like a scornful caytifie, of those holy assemblees of God's children in France, there barns are more like those caves and vaultes under the earth that the old Christian bishops were content to serve in, before the time of Constantine, thē your Idolatrous Babylonicall temples, are like those princely buildings, that by Constantine and other Christian princes were first set up for the public exercise of Christian religion.

7 You are a priuileged person as your own talk doth declare, and therefore you may prate what you list, if he be a mock bishop, which beside his excellent learning, is also a painful and diligent preacher of the Gospel, what are those unlearned Asses, and rechlesse ruffians of your sect, which have nothing of a bishop but a rotchet and a myter, or because I will not charge you with the worst, what are they which if they have some more learning then the rest (of which number there are but few) yet they count it the least part of their office, to preach and teach, which S. Paul counteth to be chief part of a Christian shepherd & overseer. But to leave the name & come to the matter, you mistake that godly man's complaint, if you think he meaneth of superfluous buyldinges of Synagoges, whereof you speak, or the unnecessary enryching of Prelates, whereof you mean, when he speaketh of the necessary sustentations of a great number of Pastors, which through the ravening of your gluttonous Monks, be robbed of their portions. And whereas you answer, it is the fruit of so idle a false faith, as his lordship preacheth, your mastership lieth. For that faith which he preacheth, is both a true and a working faith, which if it were as generally received, in this land, as it is truly preached by him and others, the ministers of God's word could lack no livings, as God be thanked they neither do nor can lack sufficient for necessity, among so many of high authority, nobility, and wealth, as do unfeignedly profess the Gospel, and daily bring forth the fruits of a true, lively, working, and only justifying faith. The Churches of France in time of greatest persecution, yet have always liberally sustained their Pastors, And as for the great grauntes, that Constantine made to Sylvester Bishop of Rome, of such as he made in deed, he made to married Bishops of Rome, as some of them were since Sylvester time, rather then unto Sylvester the conjurer, Hildebrand the hell hounde, Julius the warriar, or any that succeeded Boniface the third, which beside their abominable life, were all heretics and Antichrists. And touching such benefits as were received at the hands of princes, and noble men of our country, if they were meant to be bestowed upon y ^e professors of the truth, and such as serve the altar of God, they are now bestowed according to their founders intent. For they that serve the alter of God, must needs pull down the aultars of idols. And if any portions that were taken from the world, be gone to the wordly again, I mean the Abbeys and their lands, it is the just plague of God upon them, that under hypocrisy of forsaking the world, lived not like men of the world, but like devils of hell. And whereas you ask again, if any man would take from his own wife & children, to bestow upon Priests wives and children, I have answered before, that the chief collegiat Churches in England, were first inhabited of married Priests, which taught sounder doctrine and lived a more chaste life, then the Epicureous Monks that succeeded them. I might ask of you M. Allen if they meant not to maintain Priests wives & their children, whether they meant rather to maintain Priests whores & their bastards, Bishops brothells, and their minions. Sodom and Gomor of Monks & Friars, it was neither Cutberd, William, nor Wilfryde, wether they were holy or superstitious, but the providence of God, that appointed such portion as the Church now enjoyeth, & if the same by any means should be taken from them, yet God hath appointed that they which preach the Gospel, shall live of the Gospel. We are not so careful of worldly livelihood, as you (knowing your own disease) imagine that we should be, that we would come into your filthy Synagogue, to win Cardinals hatts, or Archbishops palls, some of us if they had sought worldly promotion, by abusing their learning & wits, to y ^e maintenaūce of your horrible heresies, needed not to have come frō you, to seek preferment among the Protestants, which you know is neither so great, nor so easy to come by as among the Papists.

8 The conclusion of your chapter, is a recourse to the beginning, you think it is the suerest way, to look to that faith in all points, which this land first received. If men should follow your counsel, as in some things they should follow your faith which you now teach, so in many points & namely in that which you count the chief, (the real presence of y ^e natural body of Christ) they should go as far from that you teach, now, as you would have them come near some things that were received thē. And whereas you wish that Bedes history, for that purpose were made familiar, and some of you in deed have taken pains to translate it into English, they that list not to be deceived but to see into what faith all nations were converted, that were turned by the Apostles, they were better to consider the word of God and the history of the acts of the Apostles, which if you durst abide the trial thereof, you would exhort men to read it, at least wise that understand Latin. And if you were as zealous to set forth the glory of God as you are earnest to maintain your own traditions, one or other of you which have so longe found fault with our translations of the scripture, would have taken, pains to translate them truly yourselves, as well as to translate Bedes book, or else to write such babbles, as you do M. Allen and all the pack of you, but all in vain • , to shadow the same, whose right should easily discuss all clouds of dark doctrine and the more it is impugned, the more bright shall it show, and the more it is compared with darkness the more glorious it shall appear.

CAP. XI.

1 THe arguments of your chapters be like the gates of Lyndum which being but a very little city, had exceeding great gates, in so much that Diogenes willed them to shut them up, for fear least their city went out of them. Even so your titles are merueillous large, but the matter of your treatise, is wonderful straight. In the last chapter, we should have had prayer and sacrifice for the dead, with the conversion of all nations, but a lack we could not obtain so much, as the same altogether in one poor nation of the Saxons, and them (as some think) not so much converted from Gentility to Christ, as perverted from pure Christianity to superstition. Now shall we have every order of celebration, sense Christ's time, with solemn supplication for the souls departed, but our probation shall not begin until three or four hundredth years after Christ's time, saving that for a preamble, we shall have a cople of players come upon the stage, the one to counterfect Clemens the ancient, the other to bear the name of Dionysius the Areopagite. But such disguised doctors, have been already to often shifted out of their players garments, and shown to the world in their own apparel, that any which hath wit should not be now deceived by them. And as concerning the diverse forms of Liturgies, which you say do perfectly and wholly agree with your mass, as they be corrupt, and falsely bear the name of them to whom they be inscribed, so notwithstanding, being of some antiquity, they differ almost as much from your mass, as your mass differeth from our form of celebration of the communion. But to follow you at the heels, as far as you dare go: I will agree with S. Augustine's rule, that the law of believing, should make a law of praying, but faith if it be true, hath no other ground but the word of God, therefore prayer if it proceed of true faith, hath no other rule to frame it by, but the word of God. And though Augustine prove against the Pelagians, which allowed the prayer of the Church, that the Church would not so pray, except she did so believe, yet it followeth not, neither doth he mean to defend, that what so ever the visible Church receiveth is true, if it be not agreeable to the word of God, and therefore all other persuasions set a side, he provoketh only to the scripture, to try the faith and doctrine of the Church. Which rule if he had as diligently followed, in examininge the common error of his time, of prayer for the dead at that time, as he did in beating down the schism of the Donatists, or the heresy of the Pelagians, he would not so blindly have defended, that which by holy Scripture he was not able to maintain, as he doth in that book de cura pro mortuis agenda and else where. And where as you compare our Church to a step dame, and your Synagogue to a natural mother, we may more justly wringe back that comparison upon your noses. For our Church herein approveth her self to be a natural mother, that she neither keepeth back from her true children that heavenly inheritance, which their father hath appointed them, nor dissembleth the eternal abdication of them that be obstinate and rebellious. But your malignant church, showeth her self to be a cursed step dame, both in feeding the wicked with a vain hope of release of pains after this life, and in tormenting the well disposed with a false fear of pains which God hath released, to all them that truly turn unto him. So her terror tormenteth the vertous, deceiveth the wicked, her hope flattereth the ungodly and disquieteth the well affected. The Church of God sendeth her childrē into the everlasting blessing of their father in heaven, the Church of Rome sendeth her bastards out of the blessing of God, not into the warm son, but into hot burning cools of purgatory to be thence delivered at leisure, as she promiseth, but never to come out of hell fire as they shall find.

2 S. Hieronyme in his cataloge of Ecclesiastical writers, reherseth all the books that either were known to be written by Clemens, or said to be his, and were not. First a profitable epistle to the Corinthians, being like in style to the Epistle to the Hebrews. Also under his name went a second Epistle, which was rejected of the ancients, like wise the disputatiō of Peter and Appione written in a large treatise, which Eusebius in the third of his Ecclesiastical story reproveth. This is all that S. Hieronyme could find concerning his writings. Who then hath raised from hell these other Decretal epistles and constitutions, that M. Allen and his companions would flappe us in the mouth with all, being nothing else but impudent lies and foul forgeryes.

3 If Dionysius the Aeropagite, had written anything, or any Dionysius had written any books entitled de ecclesiastica Hierarchia before S. Ieronyms time, or in his time, he would not have left him out in his Cataloge of Ecclesiastical writers, which he continueth from the passion of Christ unto the 14. year of Theodosius the Emperor, or if any such writer, or writing had been known in the Church two hundredth years after, Gennadius which addeth, if any were omitted by Ieronym, and continueth his cataloge unto the reign of Zeno or Anastasius, in which time he lived, he would not have passed him in so deep silence. yea the man him self, even in the words that M. Allen rehearseth, plainly declareth, that he was not that Areopagite converted by S. Paul, for then he would not have said. Quemadmodum a maioribus nostris traditum accepimus, as we have received it of our ancestors. But as we have received of the Apostles them selves, of whom Dionysius him self was turned to the faith. As for Soudas is to late a witness, to know that Ieronym and Gennadius and before them Eusebius knew not. But M. Allen thinketh, he hath made a witty defense for these books, to be written by Dionysius the Areopagite, when he saith we should never have ende, if we should be put to prove, that every man, made these books, that be extant in his name. But what if we should receive all books to be authentical, that bear the name of some worthy person, should we not think you have many goodly treatises in the name not only of ancient doctors, but even of the Apostles them selves? But Origen and Athanasius both name this Dionysius and allege sentences out of him, Shew that M. Allen and you have won the field, for Dionysius credit except it be out of such Origen's and Athanasiusses as this Dionysius is or as Damascene and the second Nycene council allege, to whom what so ever could be counterfected to serve their purpose, was welcome and well received.

4 S. Cyprian should be called to record, if you could tell what to make him say. He plainly commanded the Priests under his jurisdiction not to celebrate for certain notorious offenders. He writeth to the Elders, Deacons, and people of Furnitanes. It were hard for you to prove, that all they to whom he did write were under his jurisdiction. But I have answered before, that neither prayer nor sacrifice for the dead, can be proved out of that place, but thanks giving for the departing, and sleeping in peace of the godly, & prayer for the living to make the like godly ende. As for that which was done in Augustine's time, doth not prove what was done 200. years before him.

5 Now come in the Liturgies under the name of Chrysostom and Basel, which M. Allen will needs translate masses, and who can let him, seeing he saith the word is so used of all divine writers, and Erasmus him self translateth it so. This man is very general, always, all men, all divines &c. But why is Erasmus brought in? who as he translateth Lyturgia for Mass, so he judgeth that Chrysostom and Basel were not authors of those Liturgies, but some later men. But be it that Chrysostom and Basel did write these Liturgies the oldest fathers that can be given them, I would know, what Liturgies they had in those Churches, before Chrysostom and Basel devised those forms that are said to be theirs. And why Chrysostom, Basel, Gregory, or any other that prescribed new forms of service, were not content with the old forms, that were used in their Churches before their days. undoubtedly because they were to simple for their curiosity, to sincere for their superstition, sauoring of the ancient truth, not fauoring their lately received errors. They had in deed in elder time as appeareth by Ephiphanius the name of oblation, but it was for the Patriarchs, Prophets, Apostles, and martyrs, which plainly showeth, that it was but an offering of thanks giving, as Cyprian doth declare, that they offered sacrifice for Laurentius and Ignatius martyrs, when they did celebrate the yearly days in commemoration of their suffering Lib. 4. epist. 5. Of which ceremonies and form of speaking, as the error perhaps took strength, so the authors of these Liturgies thought to confirm it by public authority, which was before but a blind error without a head.

6 For the Liturgies of the Ethiopians and the Armenians, as they are with the other before rehearsed, a great deal more modest then your masses, so are they not of such antiquity that they can prescribe by continual clame, up to the Apostles time, nor with in a hundredth years and more of their time, they sauoure plainly as you confess of the Armenians, the usage of the Greek Church, which follow these Liturgies which beareth name of Chrysostom and Basel.

7 It is a world to see that you have nothing in a manner but forged evidence, to prove the antiquity of prayer for the dead, in public service of the Church. Who is so ignorant in antiquity, but he that will needs be obstinate, that knoweth not those preparatories to that mass, to be none of S. Ambrose his doings. Otherwise it were not hard to prove, that by the name of sacrifice, he meaneth thanks giving for the sacrifice of Christ, as the manner of that vnpropre speech was to term the holy sacrament, which is but the seal of our salvation and not the matter thereof it self. To be brief what so ever Isidorus saith, if all the world agreed, that intercession and sacrifice should be offered for the dead, seeing it disagreeth from the word of God, and the practice of the primitive Church so long as it followed the rule of God's word, it is no whit to be regarded.

8 If you will take M. Allens assurance in so weighty a matter, that useth so commonly to lie, in every tryfling matter, you are worthy to be deceived. And that you may see I do him no wrong, see I pray you how shamefully he lieth in this matter, whereof he maketh such impudent assurance. He saith the same men which brought in the faith, brought in the same order of service, and planted the same supplication, wherein they have vniformly continued, &c: take away the same order, and overthrow the faith which they taught. But who doth not know, that Chrysostom, Basel, Ambrose, Gregory, which he nameth to be the first auctors of those orders of service & forms of supplication, which before he commended, were not the first, that brought in the faith into Cappadocia, Thracia, or Italy. But y ^e Apostles them selves, and that those Churches continued more then 300. years with other forms of public prayers, and celebration of the sacraments before these men were borne. And where he saith there was ever found in the celebration of the sacrament, beside oblation of the host for the quick and the dead, both particularly and generally, a solemn prayer for all departed in Christ: You must take it, as the rest of his assertions, which be ever more general then their probations. But to reprove his vanity, the order of prayers and administration of the holy mysteries, described by Justinus Martyr in his second Apology, and of Tertullian also in his Apologetico do sufficiently declare, what was the usage of the Christians in those purer times. And although there be not set forth unto them, what form of words they used in their liturgy, yet is it expressed for whom and what they prayed. Oramus etiam (saith Tertullian) pro Imperatoribus, pro ministris eorum, & potestatibus saeculi, pro rerum quiet, pro mora finis, We pray also for the Emperors, for their ministers and the powers of this world, for the quiet state of things, for stay of the end. Likewise he showeth, to whom they made their prayers, and what was the chiefest sacrifice that they did offer. Haec ab alio orare non possum, quam à quo sciam me cōsecuturum, quoniam & ipse est qui solus praestat, & ego sum cui impetrare debetur famulus eius, qui eum solum obseruo, qui ei offero opimam & maiorem hostiam, quam ipse mandauit, orationem de carne pudica, de anima innocente, de spiritu sancto profatam. These things I cannot require of any other, but of him of whom I know I shall obtain. For it is he alone, which granteth, and I am he which should obtain, being his servant, which worship him only, which offer unto him that principal and great sacrifice, which he him self commanded, namely prayer proceeding out of a chaste body, out of a harmless soul, and from the holy spirit, This he speaketh comparing the prayers and sacrifice of the Christians, with the prayers and sacrifices of the Gentiles. But that I may return to M. Allen which referreth the institution of prayer, and sacrifice for the dead to Christ, at his last supper, to the secrete suggestion of the holy Ghost, to the faithful delivery of the Apostles, and the constant continuance of all nations. Of whom will he be a feared to lie, when he fathereth such a blasphemy, upon the Apostles, upon the holy Ghost, and upon Christ him self? But let us consider your Sorites. Christ you say no doubt, did institute it: where is the warrant of this undoubted institution? you answer secrete suggestion of the holy Ghost, howe come we to the knowledge of this secrete suggestion? By tradition of the Apostles: who is witness that this is the tradition of the Apostles? Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine, Ieronym, and a great many more. But if it be lawful for me once to pose the Papists, as you do often the Protestants, I would learn why the Lord would not have this doubtless institution, and as you take it, the most necessary use of the sacrament, plainly, or at least wise obscurely set fo • th by Matthew, Mark, Luke or Paul, which all have set forth the story of the action of Christ, the institution of the sacrament, and the ende or use of the same. If it were not meet at all to be put in writing, why was it disclosed by Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine, &c. If it were meet to be put in writing, why were not those chosen Scribes Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul, worthy of all credit, rather appointed for it, then Tertullian, Cyprian, Augustine and such as you name? But against this counterfect institution, secrete suggestion, and feigned tradition, S. Paul cry • h with open mouth to the Corinthians. 1. Cor. 11. That which I delivered unto unto you, I received of the Lord, that the Lord Jesus the same night, &c. In which words he declareth without couler or couerture, what was the true institution of Christ, of what witness he received it, with what fidelity he delivered it, what the sacrament is, and what is the right use of it, to condemn all manner of abuses what so ever may rise either to corrupt this only true substance, and only right order of ministration, or to pervert this only right use and proper ende thereof. I know the Papists will fly to those words of the Apostle, the rest I will set in order when I come, but that is so manifest to be spoken of matters of external comeliness, and not of doctrine of the sacrament, as prayers and sacrifices, that no man which understandeth what 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 , doth signify, can doubt or make any questiō of it. Now touching the credit and worthiness of these, whom he so highly extolleth, as I would not go about to diminish it, if they were to be compared with us, so when they are opposed against the manifest word of God and the credit of the holy Apostles, the instruments of the holy Ghost, there is no cause that we should be carried away with them. But the controversy is not (as M. Allen saith) of the authority of the scriptures in this matter, but of the true meaning of them, which it is more like, that they being such men, then we so far inferior to them, should know, I answer, they them selves for the most parte confess, that prayer and oblation for the dead, is not taken at all out of the scriptures, as Tertullian, Augustine and other, the rest that would seek confirmation in the scriptures, as Chrysostom and such like, do so manifestly wrest them to their purpose, that the Papists them selves are ashamed to use those texts of scripture for their proofs. And as for such places, as the later Papists would violently draw unto their error, they have few or none of the old approved writers which though they allow their error yet that so interpret them, as the place. 1. Cor. 3. and Matth. 5. And what a shameless creature is M. Allen, to say the controversy is about the true meaning of the scripture, when he him self in the next leaf before, affirmeth that prayer and sacrifice for the dead, was instituted by Christ at his last Supper, which the holy Ghost afterward did secretly suggest unto the Apostles, and they as secretly delivered to the nations. For, no word nor half word thereof is contained in their writings, which are to us the only true testimony of their tradition. Thus have these heretics no ground of their heresy, but shift from the word of scripture to secret tradition, from tradition to the meaning of scripture, from the plain meaning of scripture, to the unconstant opinions of men, from the variable and contrary opinions of men in times past, to their own obstinacy and continuance in error in time present & yet he woundreth, that we are so blind, that we cannot see the clear light of the truth. If Satan transforming him self into an angel of light, hath so dasled their eyes, that they cannot see the true light, they are justly plagued, because they have refused the faithful testimony of God's word, which only giveth true light unto the eyes (as the Prophet saith) and given heed to spirits of errors and doctrines of devils, by whom they are blinded in utter darkness, though it be with false imagination and dreaminge of light. Yet see the confidence of the man, he is suer, that if we were examined of our conscience, what trial of this doubt we would wish, there is none we could name, but his cause might well abide it. Why M. Allen, we have testified of our conscience longe ago, that the only authority of God's word written, shall satisfy us, as well in this as in all other matters, if you were as desirous to satisfy us, as you pretend, and as able to perform, as you are to promise, we should have heard before this time some sentence of scripture to maintain, prayer and sacrifice for the dead, not standing upon voluntary collection, but either in plain words or necessary conclusion. For there is nothing that we are bound to know, nothing that we are bound to do, but either in express words or in necessary collection, which is as good as express words, it is set forth in the holy Scriptures. Beside this, you should bring a great prejudice against us, if you could bring the consent and practice of the primitive pure Church for the space of an hundredth years after Christ. But neither of these do we look to see, we before see with our eyes the certainty of those things, whereof now we contend in words and writings.

CAP. XII.

1 IN this chapter, where he vomiteth out nothing but railing and lying, he doth rather bewraye his own infirmity, then touch the strength of our cause. For being troubled with a sore lax of the tongue, which I take to be a like disease in y ^e mouth that it is in y ^e womb, he gusheth out nothing but bragging, and faceing, scolding, and sclaundering, tauntinge and trifling. And therefore I will but briefly confute his vanity and turn him to his matches to contend in that kind of quarreling. The chief argument (he saith) that the Church in times past and Augustine the Churches champion, used against the Pelagians, was to show that their heresy was contrary to the public prayers of the Church: what should I use many words? I appeal to the judgment of all Papists, that have not lost all use of natural reason, and indifferent judgment, which either have read, or will take pains to read, so many works as Augustine did write against the Pelagians, whether of an hundredth arguments, that he useth, this insultation be not one of the feeblest: which took no hold of the Pelagians by force of truth that is in it, but by their own concession and grant, of that prayer to be godly and them to be of the Church that so prayed. But now the controversy is not only of the substance of doctrine, but of the Church it self also. And therefore when Augustine had to do with the Donatists that challenged the Church unto them selves, he setteth all other tryalles aside, and provoketh only to the scriptures. Therefore (M. Allen) if you will teach your scholars to keep us at the baye as heretics, you must not teach them to bark and baule, nothing but the Church the Church, like tinckers curres, but you must instruct them to open conningly out of the scriptures how our doctrine is contrary to the truth, and yours agreeable to the same. I do not blame you if you would fain have that argument of the Church, without trial which is the Church, to take place, for it would ease you and your fellows of much pain, it would serve you both for a sword and a buckler, all other books, arguments and reasons, might be laid a side and keep silence. The Church saith it, and we are the Church, therefore it is true. The scriptures them selves are altogether needless, where this argument may stand for payment. This is so plain a proof, that the adversaries shall not be able to say baffe unto it. In deed they were but sory whelps that could not say baffe to the bleating of such a calf as you are, which think that such a foolish cavil, can carry credit with them that have any cromme of brain in their heads. The Church prayeth so, therefore it is true. Nay Syr, you pray, and practice to control the word of God, therefore you are not the Church of God. Prove that you do not so, or else prate as long as you will. And think not to dorre us with Cyprians name, where as if you had his judgment, we might be bold to say as the same Augustine hath given us example: Nos nullam Cypriano facimus iniuriam, cum eius quaslibet literas, à canonica diuinarum scripturarum authoritate distinguimus. Neque enim sine causa tam salubri vigilantia canon Ecclesiasticus constitutus est, ad quem certi Prophetarum & Apostolorum libri pertinent, quos omnino iudicare non audeamus, & secundum quos de caeteris literis, vel fidelium vel infidelium libere vindicemus. Contra Cresconium Gram. lib. 2. cap. 31. We do Cyprian none injury at all, when we put difference between any of his writings, from the canonical authority of the holy Scriptures. For not without a cause with so wholesome diligence is the ecclesiastical canon appointed, unto which certain books of the Prophets and Apostles do pertain, which we dare not judge at all, according to which we may freely judge of all other writings either of faithful men or infidels. And again in the 32. chapter. Ego huius epistolae authoritate non teneor, quia literas Cypriani non vt Canonicas habeo, sed ease ex canonicis considero, & quod in eis diuinarum scripturarum auctoritati congruit, cum laude eius accipio, quod autem non congruit, cum pace eius respuo. I am not bound to the authority of this epistle, because I count the letters of Cyprian not as canonical scriptures, but I consider them by the canonical scriptures, and what so ever I find in them agreeable to the authority of holy Scriptures, I take it with his praise, that which agreeth not, I reject it with his leave. Judge here (gentle reader) whether Augustine would or should with any indifferency, bind either men to the absolute admitting of Cyprians authority, wherewith he would not be holden himself, and know Allen for a Iangler on Augustine's words against the meaning of Augustine, or any reasonable man.

2 He would know by what churches example, we have left out of our service, which he tormeth like himself, prayers and sacrifice for the dead, as though he hath not been often told by the example of God's Church▪ whereof w • have sure warrant out of God's word by example of the eldest Church, and nearest to the Apostles times, as we have shown out of Justinus Martyr and Tertullian before he became an heretic. And as for him, that affirmed the old Liturgies, to make against your mass, though he be better able to answer for him self, yet have I shown also, that there are none so full of blasphemy, as your mass is. And it is easy to be gathered by Epiphanius, that the old form of liturgy was, but to make mention of the dead, to have them in remembrance. And because they used to make memory of all sortes of men that were dead in Christ, he expoundeth it according to the error of his time, that this memory was a prayer for the sinners, for the just, as Patriarchs, Prophets, &c. a signification that they were inferior to Christ. A simple cause why they should be remembered, but this shift he is driven unto, because he did not consider, that the memory and oblation which the old fathers made for all departed in Christ, was a sacrifice of thanks giving and not of prayers for them. The same order & error do all the later liturgies follow, making memory & prayers for all them that are departed in the faith. In the memory of all departed they follow the old order, in praying for all, they follow the latter error, which had changed the sacrifice of thanks giving into the sacrifice of prayer. But herein they declared, that they had not yet generally received your new doctrine of purgatory, because they prayed not as you do, for them only that are in purgatory, to whom only you confess the prayers to be needful and profitable, but for all that are departed in the faith of Christ from the beginning of the world. And now Syr I have shown, wherein they make against you. But where as you taunt at the author of that book, because he setteth not his name unto it, you show your wit, & bewray your disease. You can neither tell what to speak, nor yet how to hold your peace. In the margent you guess it was M. Pilkington of Duresme: you would fain have such a man to be your adversary, that though you took the foil, y • t you might boast, that you were so bold as to fight with him. But it is an easier matter for such a desperate dicke to beginning a fraye, then to ende it. If I may be as bold to guess as you: I guess that he which made that lusty challenge of the Papist against the Protestant, promising to recant at the ende of every article, if he cold be answered, was such a tried Thraso as M. Allen? if you ask me what is the ground of my guess, to omit the style somewhat like, I will answer as one in Plautus doth: Credo te esse ab illo, nam ita nugas blattis. I take it to be even you, you are so full of bracing and facing. But who so ever he was, was he ashamed of his name because he set not his name unto it? and was the man of Chester ashamed of his name because he setteth it not to his treatise? Finally be all those Papists ashamed of their names, which have written so many petty pamphlettes to be carried abroad in Popish fellows pocketts? O intemperate tongue, which cannot spare such taunts, as redounde to him self and his own good masters reproach. Your lies of offering, worshipping, and praying to the host be reproved already, you say we might with more honesty have coped for one of those Liturgies, if we liked not Gregory's Mass, rather then to have forged a new. I answer we have with more honesty reformed our Liturgy according to the word of God, and example of the oldest Church, then Gregory, Basel, Chrysostom, (if they were theirs) or who so ever were authors of those Liturgies, did leave the ancient Liturgies that were used in the Church before their time, because they did not sufficiently express their errors and superstition, and forge them new of their own contrary to the word of God. And where as you prate of the Latin Church and the East parte, we neither refuse the Latin Church while it was pure, nor receive the East Church where in it was corrupt, but the scripture is a rule unto us to judge all Churches by. Although it were easy to prove by that controversy, which the Britaynes and the Scots had against the Saxons, about the celebration of Easter, that our country first received their conversion from the East Church, whose ceremony they did then defend, even as the East Church did longe before against Victor Bishoppe of Rome. By which it appeareth that this lande did never receive the doctrine and ceremonies of the Latin Church before the time of the Saxons. And whereas you slander us for referringe our faith to an uncertain and unknown Origin, the contrary is manifest, when we refer it to no judgment, or company of men, but to the authority of God's word and all them that will be subject thereunto. But I tarry to longe in these trifles.

3 Every man in the primitive Church, compted the springe of his faith more pure, if he could derive it out of the holy Scriptures, and show the continuance thereof, in any of the Apostolic Churches whereof Rome was but one. And condemned all heresies of novelty or later string, which could not bring the first author of their heresies, either from any of the Apostles: or apostolicke men which continued in the doctrine of the Apostles: as Tertullian doth in that book De praescriptionibus aduersus heresies. The like doth Irenaeus. And that these men specially named the Church of Rome, it was because the Church of Rome at that time as it was founded by the Apostles, so it continued in the doctrine of the Apostles. And these heretics for the most parte had been sometimes of the Church of Rome, as Valentinus, Marcion, Novatus. But none of these fathers, as M. Allen would have it appear, was such a sclaue to the Church of Rome, that what so ever pleased the Bishops of that Sea, they were ready to accept. For then would not Irenaeus so sharply have reproved Victor, as Eusebius declareth of him Lib. 5. cap. 25. Cyprian would not have taken up Cornelius and Stephanus as appeareth by his epistles. Hieronym would not have been so bold to call Rome the purple whore of Babylon Praefat. ad Paulinū in lib. Didym. Nor to compare the bishop of Eugubium with the bishop of Rome Euagrio, nor to make the Church of England equal with the Church of Rome: Nec iam altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia, altera totius orbis existimanda est. Et Gaul, & Britania, & Africa & Bersis & Oriens & Indiae & omnes barbarae nations vnum Christum adorant, vnam observant regulam veritatis. Si authoritas quaeritur, orbis major est vrbe. Neither must we think that there is one Church of the city of Rome another of all the world beside. Both France and Britain and Africa, and Persia, and the Easte, and India, and all barbarous nations worship one Christ, keep one rule of truth. If authority be sought, the world is greater then one city &c. Loe Syr, here is a Church and christianity, and a rule of truth, without the bishop of Rome, without the Church of Rome, yea, and contrary to the church of Rome. For to them that alleged the custom of the church of Rome, he saith: Quid mihi proffers vnius vrbis cōsuetudinem? what bring you me the custom of one city? and Augustine him self, that knwe so well to fetch an heretic over the coles, I trow fetched Zosimus, Boniface, and Coelestinus bishops of Rome meetly well over the coles, when he and his fellows the bishops of Africa, took them with plain forgery, and falsification of the canons of the council of Nice. Consilio Milebitano & Africano. As for that which M. Allen compteth so strange, is for lack of skill and right judgment. For the same cause that moved those ancient fathers to appeal to the judgment of the church of Rome, moveth us now to condemn the church of Rome of heresy. wherefore did they reverence the church of Rome? Ask Tertullian, he answereth because it had by succession retained even until his days, that faith which it did first receive of the Apostles: Therefore it was a true Church, therefore it was an apostolicke Church, which because it doth not now, neither hath done of many years, and hath nothing to boast of, but the empty names of many good bishops, but thrice as many more of cursed Antichrists, therefore it is now a false church, and a company of heretics, departed from the ancient Romaines true and apostolicke faith.

4 Bring this man's faith to Gregory, & then the stream shall drive him to Peter and Paul, Nay M. Allen bring you your faith from Peter and Paul by good testimony of their holy writings, and then you shall not need to row in Cockelaurels bote, neither with stream nor against it. But you offer us fair play, we must bring you one Bishop of Rome, that did set forth by decree, any practice of contrary doctrine, to that which his next predecessor did before him maintain, and you will seek a new mother Church. If I should bring you Sabinianus which controlled the decrees of Gregory : or Stephanus that condemned the decrees of Formosus, from which time the story testifieth, that it grew unto a custom, that every Bishop would condemn his predecessors decrees, you would answer that all this was without your compass. So will you say if I name Honorius, who was an heretic of the sect of the Monothelites, condemned both by his successor and by a general council. I bring no small proofs M. Allen, but such as you cannot with for greater. Look in the sixth general council, holden at Constantinople. Acti. 13. there shall you read that the decretal epistle of Honorius whereby he confirmed Sergius in his heresy, was red, and burned, & Honorius him self anathematized, as an heretic. Loke a little further unto the 18. action, there shall you find the decretal epistle of Pope Leo the second, written to the council wherein he condemneth Honorius his predecessor for an heretic, and his doctrine for heresy. But what say you to Liberius & Felix whereof either one, or as Ieronym affirmeth, both were Arians? how were their decrees liked of their successors? how did they allow the decrees of their predecessors? Finally where as you say, that our earnest & often preaching against the Pope hath won you so many Catholics, we will by God's grace continue to gratify you still by that means, and give you good leave when you have counted your cards, to boast of your winnings.

5 Although we account Latimer for a worthy teacher, and more worthy of the name of an Apostle for his apostolic doctrine, then Augustine the Monk, yet build we our faith (as you know) neither upon him, nor any other, but only upon the word of God. And as for our mother Church, is no certain place, or company of men in any one place upon earth, but Jerusalem which is above, is mother of us all. Galat. 4. And who so ever were children of this Church, would never find fault with our communion, which cannot be condemned by the word of God, and therefore careth not for the comparison of the custom of other men which whether they used the like or not, in form of words, which is not material, so they used not other substance of matter except they did it beside the word of God. How like your Mass is to other country masses, when there was never any mass but yours, I leave it to consider and compare to all them that had rather see the truth them selves, then to be deceived by you.

6 If any man mislike the form of our service, as not differing sufficiently from yours, he showeth his greater zeal in detestation of your idolatry and blasphemy. In the mean time what need this great wondering, for once or twice alteration in the form, where the matter is still retained, when if we shall believe your own stories, your service hath not had much less then an hundredth innovations, so often as one piece or other was added or patched to it. And yet in this one country of England, howe many diverse forms of service had you? so that you could never grow to uniformity? York, Salesbury, Bangor, Hereford, &c.

7 If the civil Magistrates have thought good in some outward ceremony or usage, to bear with the infirmity of the weaker sort of your side, in hope to win them, it is a small matter for you that are the obstinate of that sect to triumph upon, when all your blasphemous doctrine is abolished, and nothing left but a few rags of your robes to look upon. And as for the injunction for Priests marriage, was either to stop your slanderous mouths, when godly ministers wives should have testimoy of their honesty by men of such credit, or else to bridle the lust of your own tounebulls the popish Priests, which when license of whoredom is denied them, and liberty to marry permitted them, would make no better choice perhaps of their wives, then they did before of their women. We can show no cause in the world you say, why we need in any one point of controversy depart from your Church: yes M. Allen, this one cause shall serve for all, because your church is departed from the truth of God's word, and dare not abide the trial thereof, but will sit like a proud dame in a chair, & control the Scriptures, the ordinance of Christ, and the commandments of God him self. But how so ever you boast of her fast sitting, she shall down, she shall down, even to the bottom of hell.

8 Now the youngers must pose their masters (as M. Allen a passing good Logician doth teach them) yea and that is more, he will teach us what to answer also, but saving his wisdom, he must give us leave to answer for our selves. First if we be asked howe we can shift our selves against the general practice of God's Church, for all popish assertions, and namely this of praying for the dead: we answer, that we deny the practice to be general, because we find it not in the holy Scriptures, nor in the most ancient writers, that lived with in an hundredth years and more after the time of Christ. And to the particular practice of the later times, we answer, that it is not sufficient to control the ancient doctrine, and primer practice. If we be required to show some place of any ancient writer, which denieth purgatory or prayers for the dead, we have already shown that Augustine some time doth doubt whether there be purgatory, some time affirmeth there is no mean or third place, but heaven for the elect, and hell for the reprobate, likewise for praying or satisfying for the dead, we have alleged Cyprian and others: your own common law, out of Hieronym, saith, that the prayers of the living profit not the dead. 13. quaest. 2. In praesenti saeculo &c. In this present world, we know that one of us may be helped of another, either by prayers or by counsels, but when we should come before the judgment seat of Christ, neither Job nor Daniel nor Noah, can entreat for any man, but every man must bear his own burden. Yea Gelasius the Pope saith, that no man can be absolved of the Pope after his death 24. q. 2. C. legatur. Wherefore serve the Popes pardons then? To that which is required of the express word of God, forbidding prayers for the dead, we answer, that all places of scripture, that forbid prayers without faith, forbid prayer for the dead, for faith is not every man's vain persuasion, but an assurance out of the word of God, which because we cannot have in praying for the dead, therefore we are forbidden to pray for them. If it be against the hope of Christians to morne for the dead, much more it is against the faith and hope of Christians to pray for them. For by our prayer we suppose them to be in misery whom the word of God doth testify to be in happiness, to be at rest, to be with Christ, John 17. Apoc. 14. And as for a place so expounded by an ancient writer, I will seek no farther then the place of Hieronym even now alleged out of your own canon law upon 2. Cor. 5. referring the reader to many other places alleged in this answer, as out of Cyprian, Origen and others, by which the intolerable lying, bragging, and railing of this miscreant, shall be better confuted, then by any contradiction of words. And where as he saith we challenge the old doctors before the simple, for our partakers, whether they be simple or wise before whom we speak, as we speak not always before the simple only, but often times and commonly before as wise and well learned men as M. Allen, we never make any such challenge of them as the Papists do, which offer to stand to their judgment in all things, and yet in most things yea in the chiefest pointes of religion, that be so in deed, or be so compted of them, they are contrary to the doctors and old councils, for which cause, and not for confirmation of truth, we allege the authority of men, for we have learned, as Augustine saith, to give this honor, only to the canonical scriptures, that we must believe them without controversy, and all other writings we receive so far as they agree with the scriptures and not other wise, wherefore we do not only say that the doctors have erred like men, but we have proved it, so that the Papists them selves cannot say nay for shame. But to that he saith, we do boldly condemn the holy Scriptures, that it out of all measure impudent, and sclaunderous. And that which he citeth out of Irenaeus, belike as he had it of some foolish priest, that fed him with notes of doctors, or as he is impudent enough, to peruerte the fathers meaning, him self, so if he had alleged the whole sentence he might well have taken him self, and the rest of his fellows by the noses, for heretics, by the judgment of Irenaeus, whose words be these. Cum enim ex scriptures arguantur, in accusationem conuertuntur ipsarum scripturarum, quasi non recte hab • ant, neque sit ex authoritate, & quia vary sunt dictae, & quia non possit inueniri veritas, ab his qui nesciant traditionem, non enim per literas traditam illam, sed per viuam vocem. When they be confuted by the scriptures, they are turned into the accusation of the scriptures them selves, as though they were not well, nor of sufficient authority, both because the truth cannot be found of them which know not the tradition, for that was not delivered by writing but by word of mouth. How say you M Allen, who is an heretic by Irenaeus judgment? who accuseth the scriptures as though they were not of sufficient authority, who saith the scriptures are like a nose of wax? who say the truth cannot be found in scriptures without tradition of unwritten verities? In good sooth M. Allen, you have the worst grace of any that ever I knew, in alleging the sentences of the doctors, for you allege few or none, but either in whole or in parte they make against you.

9 We need no shifts M. Allen for the authority of the doctors, whom we never allow for canonical Scriptures, and therefore we may boldly say, as Augustine saith of Cyprian, what so ever we find in them agreeable to the Scriptures, we receive it with their praise, and what so ever is disagreeable to the Scriptures we refuse with their leave. Now by what means they fell into this error that maintained prayer and alms for the dead, I shall have better occasion to show in the answer to the 14. chapter, although it be not greatly material, to know how they came into error, when it is sufficiently proved that they did err. As for the abridgement of Jason, y ^e Cyrenians story, which M. Allen maketh such a precious jewel, I have answered enough before, that the author him self, desiring pardon of his readers, hath testified sufficiently, that he was no scribe of the holy Ghost, as also by many other unavoidable reasons, with the consent of the Catholic Church, which it were superfluous here to repeat. Finally whereas you say, that our answer is contrary to it self, you seek a knot in a rush. For all may be true. First the devil suggested superstitious devotion into the Gentiles, by perverse emulation of whom, Judas might be deceived, and his fact give occasion to the ignorant people of error, and their ignorance first winked at, because it had a show of piety, confirmed by custom, might at length be allowed of Augustine and others who never weighed the matter by Scriptures, but by the commō practice. And this I think is the right degree of prayers for the dead and purgatory.

CAP. XIII.

1 IF prayer for the dead was appointed by the Apostles commandment, why is there never a word thereof in their writings? there is warrant • or lesser matters then this is made of, why is this and all other popish trash counted their tradition, which cannot be warranted by their writing? If I were disposed to pose you, this question would make you clawe your poll an hundred times before you could imagine any coulo • able answer. for right answer you shall never be able to make. But I take not upon me to pose but to answer, first your authority of Augustine, serveth not your turn, for prayers for the dead have not been always observed, namely in the Apostles times, nor long after. The saying of Leo the great, may be backed with the writing of Leo the great. Epi. 10. Sed in hanc insipientiam cadunt, qui cum ad cognoscendum veritatem aliquo impediuntur obscuro, non ad propheticas voces, non ad apostolicas literas, nec ad euangelicas auctoritates, sed ad semetipsos recurrunt. Sed ideo erroris magistri existunt quia veritatis discipuli non fuerunt. They fall into this folly, which when they be hindered by any obscurity, to know the truth, have not recourse to the words of the Prophets, nor to the writings of the Apostles, nor to the authority of the Gospel, but to them selves. But therefore are they masters of error, because they have not ben scholars of truth. In these words Leo as great as you would have him. maketh y ^e Scriptures, & not customs or traditions, the rule of truth. But I will come to your demonstration, which you call a sure way to try the beginning of any doctrine, yet under correction of your demonstrative Logike, I may be bold to say it is not the proper way, nor the way by which all doctrine may be tried, and so you break 2. of those principal rules, that Aristotle giveth for demonstration 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 and 〈 in non-Latin alphabet 〉 for the proper way to try all doctrine is by cōferring it with the word of God Again the first author of every heresy cannot be named. There was one heresy of them that were called Acephali, because there was no head known of them. It is hard to name y ^e first author of the Manichees, whom the heretics them selves call an Apostle of Christ. The Chiliastes, the Oph • tes, the Caineanes, y ^e Sethoites, the Adamianes, the Melchezed • chianes, the Apostolic, the Hemerobaptistes, and an hundred more heresies, shall they be thought to have their heresy from tradition of the Apostles, if the first author of them cannot be named? & yet I ween it will be hard for him to prove out of any authentical writer, that any before Tertullian, either named or allowed prayer for the dead, who was almost 2. hundredth years after the incarnation of Christ.

2 Supposing that this error crept into the Church, though the first author thereof cannot be known, he demandeth whether any man preached against it when it began first to be received. I answer if the Pastors of the Church had done their duty to the uttermost, it could not so easily have prevailed, And yet it is not to be thought but that some of the true Pastors in that time, opposed them selves against it, although the history of the Church in that time wh • n it began to be spread, is to brief & imperfect, that we should be able to name, who they were that preached against it. Of so many heresies as Epiphanius nameth in his time, it were hard to require and impossible to show, who preached against everyone of them, at their first entrance, & yet they be damnable heresies. In S. Augustine's days, of whose time the history of the Church is largely set forth unto us, who preached or writ against that error which he and Innocentius Bishop of Rome, & all the church as he confessed did hold, that infants must receive the holy communion or else they should be damned? Who preached against this error, except perhaps the Pelagians that were horrible heretics? Was all the Church corrupted with it in one day? If every heresy had been beaten down as fast as it sprang, Antichrist should never have set up his throne in the temple of God. If God had not sent into the world the efficacy of error, that they which refused to believe the truth, should be justly condemned to believe lies: the man of sin and son of perdition, had never advanced him self above all that is called God. 2. Thessal. 2. And therefore M. Allen pluck not us by the sleue, but yourself by the nose, you are the heretics that refuse to believe the truth, you are they that turn away your ears from truth to fables, you are they that attend to spirits of error and doctrines of devils, forbidding to marry, and abstaining from meats which God hath created to be received with thanks giving. There is the brande mark of Romish religion, that all the water in Tiberis nor in the Ocean sea, shall not be able to wash out. Must we find out the authors of your heresies? Nay justify them yourselves by the word of God if you can. And because you bring in a witty example of the common wealth, I will answer you with the like. Must the Magistrate either justify a thief’s possession, or else bring out the author where he had it? Nay the thief must bring out good proof, howe and by whom he came by such goods, or else he is worthy to be served like such a one. So shall you not compel us to tell you, where, when, or how your heresy came in, seeing it is sufficient for us to show, that it came not from God, nor by the Apostles, nor through their doctrine. But you do well to conclude your reason in a syllogism, for then by the weakness thereof doth appear your major and minor be both false, or at the least wise unable to be proved of you. For every falsehood hath not been preached against, at the first entry. And how are you able to prove, that purgatory and praying for the dead hath not been preached against? therefore your conclusion is as true and as certain as your premisses.

3 It is not denied, but Tertuillan maketh mention of oblations for the dead, but what kind of oblations, it is not yet agreed upon, but such they were, as were offered for men's births, for they be joined together. Oblationes pro defunctis, pro natalitijs, annua die facimus, we make oblations yearly for the day of men's death, and the day of men's birth. Now it is not like, they offered prayers but thankes giving for men's birth, and even so for their death. For those places, out of the other books, where he speaketh of prayers for men's spirits, I will consider afterward. But in this book de corona militis, if oblations were prayers, which he saith came from the Apostles, he utterly denieth that they came from the Scriptures. Therefore by Tertullian's judgment, you do abuse the Scriptures, which would wrest them to prove out of them that which he saith cannot be proved by them. But think you, prayers for the dead came from the Apostles, because he saith so? If you answer yea, then must you likewise think, that it is a wicked thing to fast on Sunday, or to pray on your knees, for in the same place, he saith that these opinions came also from the Apostles. If you answer, he saith untruly of these, so do we answer of the other. Now come back of your 13. hundredth years, to seek your apostolic tradition where you can find it. All is not Gospel that Tertullian hath said. As for the works of Clemens and Dionysius you know full well, they be not currant, and therefore I marvel at your modesty, that you will not now oppress us with them. But it is because you have store enough beside. Howbeit if the most ancient fail you, it is not for the later sort to help you. If Tertullian had no ground of his saying, when he affirmed that oblations for the dead came from the Apostles, what ground can Augustine have which was 200. years farther from the Apostles time then he? But where you charge us to confess, that the Church in Augustine's time was holy, Catholic, and Apostolic, you must wit, if you will, that although we may so confess, in respect of the substance of true doctrine, which then was taught, yet we do not thereby justify every error & superstition of that age. But as Augustine saith, in his retractations lib. 2. cap. 18. he doth not mean, that the Church is pure and perfect in this life, without all spot of blemish, for even the whole Church by reason of certain ignorance and infirmities of her members, hath need to say every day: Forgive us our debts.

4 When you name Athanasius, and think we should be so sore afraid of his name, you have good reason, for you allege nothing else of him but his name. I have often told you, Damascens report, either for his corrupt judgment, or his cracked credit is nothing regarded of us. And even the authority of Athanasius without the word of God, is the authority of God. And as Augustine saith of Cyprian, we count not all his writing for canonical Scriptures, but we judge them by the canonical Scriptures. The creed commonly called Athanasius creed, although it be very godly and agreeable to the holy Scriptures, yet by the judgment of the best learned, was complied by some later writer, then Athanasius. As for the plague of the Greek Church, which M. Allen judgeth to have fallen upon them, for their departing from the Church of Rome, he judgeth both falsely and unreasonably. For what schism was the Church of Africa first plagued by the Vandals, that were Arians, and afterward utterly subverted by the Saracens? I doubt not but justly, for their sins, but not for leaving the Romish Church.

5 Chrysostom can no more prove, that prayer for the dead came from the Apostles, then Tertullian could prove that oblation for the dead came from them. To detest fasting on Sunday, and to pray kneeling, with diverse like superstitions, Tertullian referreth to the Apostles, as well as prayer for the dead, deny one and doubt of all the rest. And whereas M. Allen upon contemplation of Chrysostom words, falleth into a hidden agony, & crieth alas alas, if he would consider what the same man writeth upon the Epistle to the Philip. Hom. 3. he would not make so great mone, the loss is not so great, Procuremus eis aliquid auxilij, modici quidē, attamen iuuemus eos. Let us procure them some help, in deed but small help, yet let us help them. Loe (M. Allen) your own doctor confesseth it is but small help that can be procured by prayers, alms, or remembrance of them at the celebration of the holy mysteries. You will say that soon after he saith the Apostles that instituted such memory, knew that much commodity came to the dead. Then see how soon he forgetteth him self, when he followeth not the rule of holy Scripture. Again howe like you M. Allen that he alloweth not prayers nor the said memory to help them that were Catechumen, which were learning their catechism, and died before they were baptized? S. Ambrose you say cap. 9. of this book did pray and offer for Gratianus which was but Catechumenus and died before he was baptized. Again how agreeth this with your catholic doctrine which you boast is so well ordered to your hands, that Chrysostom denieth them prayers, and alloweth them alms for their help? Catechumenos vero neque isto solatio dignamur, sed omni huiusmodi destituti sunt auxilio, vno quodam dempto, quo nam illo? pauperibus illorum nomine dare licet, vnde illis non nihil refrigerij accedet. As for them that be Catechumen we count them not worthy of so much as this comfort, but they be destitute of all such aide, except one. What one is that? we may give some thing for their sake to the poor, whereof some refreshing shall come unto them.

6 As for Damascene, I know not wherefore his authority serveth, but to fill up the number, for neither is his credit nor his antiquity comparable with the former, we refuse not the rule of Vincentius Lyrinensis, concerning antiquity, so you can prove that it hath God to be the author, the Prophets and Apostles. As for witness under this antiquity, that which had an erroneous beginning shall have a shameful ending.

7 Nay M. Allen, your prescription is not yet proved, that this gear came from Christ and the Apostles. The oldest witness, that you have alleged, fathered manifest fables upon the institution of Christ, & the Apostles, as you yourself cannot deny, if you have any conscience at all, and therefore not sufficient to be credited for that you allege him. Wherefore you may bestow where you list these swelling brags, of Christ's institution, the Apostles tradition, the universal practice of the primitive Church. And what so ever great words beside you have strained your lunges, to pronounce, you have said nothing for oblation or prayer for the dead, to be the institution of Christ, and all this geere, but I may say the same for the drinking of milk and honey after baptism, for not fasting on Sunday▪ or prayer on knees, &c: by like universality, antiquity, consent, authority.

8 M. Allen marueileth and giveth a special note, that we name not Jovinian, Vigilantius, Berengarius or Wycliffe to be the authors of our doctrine but rather hang upon some sentence of Augustine or Ambrose, and thinketh we are ashamed of the other. In deed if we depended upon any men's authority, or that any man or men were the authors of our faith as it fareth with y ^e popish faith, we should be injurious unto them if we did not acknowledge our foūders, as they do some of theirs. But seeing God him self is the father of that doctrine, which we have received by his holy word, we neither boast upon Augustine, nor Ambrose when they dissent therefro, neither are ashamed of Vigilantius nor Beringarius, when they agree therewith. We refuse not y ^e truth that Tertullian & Origin have taught, because they taught heresies also, neither do we receive y ^e errors of Cypriā & Augustine, because they taught many points of true faith. Only the canonical Scriptures are the rule, by which we judge of all men and their writings, of all doctrine and the teachers thereof. It is a ridiculous thing, that M. Allen like a cold Prophet, taketh upon him to tell what shall be thought of our preachers names, within these hundred years. But what so ever he prateth, the memory of the righteous shall remain forever, neither shall they be afraid of any evil report, their names are written in the book of life which are ordained unto eternal glory, howso ever they be accounted of by the wicked of this world. And yet there is no cause, why we should not think that the names and writings of Luther, Calvin and Bucer, shall remain in good account with God's Church even until they them selves shall come with Christ, to judge the world when in the mean time Eccius, Pighius, Cocleus, and such other shall not be remembered, but as obstinate withstanders of the truth and enemies of the Gospel.

9 M. Allen sta • • our wisdom, there is no man will grant you that the doctors of God's Church Augustine, Ambrose, Chrysostom, Basel, &c. are all together yours, because they have allowed someone or two things that you do, and have condemned the whole substance and principal grounds of your religion. Nay rather count upon y ^e Popes to be the pillars of your Church, doctors of your learning, and fathers of your faith, that have been within these seven, or eight hundredth years, and see whether we might not with more honesty, brag of Jovinian and Vigilantius, then you in your conscience, can glory in a whole hundred of them almost. And whereas you bable of Augustine and the Pelagians, if you were posed to answer upon your conscience: do you defend God's eternal predestination with Augustine, rather then free will with Pelagius ? the only grace of God to be the whole cause of man's salvation as Augustine doth? or the merits of works as the Pelagians do? And whereas you allege that saying of Augustine, dic huic Ambrosio, &c. to prove that Ambrose may not be gain said, what so ever he writ, you shall hear what Augustine him self saith of the same Ambrose, when he was pressed with his authority by the Pelagians, as though he defended freewill in his book de gratia Christi contra Pelagium, cap. 43. Beatus inquit Ambrosius Episcopus in cuius praecipue libris Romana elucet fides, qui scriptorum inter Latinos flos quidem enituit, cuius fidem & purissimum in Scriptures sensum, ne inimicus quidem ausus est reprehendere. Ecce qualibus & quantis praedicat laudibus quamlibet sanctum & doctum, nequaquam tamen authoritati Scripturae canonicae comparandum. Blessed Ambrose (saith the Pelagian) that Bishop in whose books specially, the Roman faith doth shine, which glistered as a certain flower among the Latin writers, whose faith and most pure sense in the Scriptures, no not his enemy durst reprehend, &c. Behold (saith Augustine ) with what & howe great praises he extolleth him, which though he be never so holy and well learned, yet is he not to be compared with the authority of the canonical Scriptures. Loe here the authority of Ambrose, or any man. And by the way note here the heretical brag of the Roman faith. Finally where you stand forth, like a peevish quarrel picker to dare us with S. Augustine's words, we may well say unto you, as to such a busy body: good fellow thou makest more a do then thou needest, here is no man disposed to strive with Clemens, Dionysius, Athanasius, Chrysostom, nor Augustine, if they have spoken anything that helpeth the matter, bring it forth where due trial may be had, in the mean time, brag of them as much as thou wilt, thou shalt never be able to prove, that of 20. errors which thou defendest, they did hold one. If they have spoken otherwise then truth in any matter, they must be told of it as well as other men. But thou must not think, that for one error common with them, thou must hold an 100. contrary to them. Thou doest them wrong, to make them thy partakers, as thou shalt well know when the trial cometh, therefore quiet thyself, and talk of thine own mates, as for those men, thou hast little to do with them, nor they with thee, but for sclaundering of them to be altogether on thy side.

10 Nay M. Allen, though those doctors build some hay or stuble, upon the only foundation Christ, their case is ten thousand times better then yours, which build nothing but dirt and donge tempered with hay and stuble upon no foundation at all except it be the sand, and seek by all means to dignity up the only true foundation of our faith Jesus Christ, making him nothing better then a common person: except his bare name: and woe may be to such Catholics, as can find nothing but hay and stuble, where such store of precious matter is, and the most precious corner stone the foundation of all excellency. And happy be those, which not regarding the streams of waters, that run through the vaynes of earth, but seeking to the only fountain of heavenly truth, contained in the holy scriptures, have certain comfort of salvation while they are alive, and sure possession of felicity with Christ, as soon as they are dead, yea which die not at all, because they believe in Christ which is life, nor enter into judgment, but pass from death of this body, which is temporal, unto life of body and soul which is eternal.

CAP. XIIII.

1 WHen the Apostolic writing, cannot be shown, it is but the point of an heretic to boast of Apostolic tradition. So did the Valentinians, although their heresy were new, when they were confuted by the Scriptures, shrowed them selves under the name of traditions, as we have shown before, out of Irenaeus lib. 3. ca. 2. And therefore it is but vain bragging, that you promise to seek out any other fathers of our persuasion, then the Apostles of Christ, by whose holy writings, we never refuse to be judged. what if any heretic have affirmed something, that is true? is truth worse in an heretics mouth? The devils them selves confessed Christ. Their confession was true, their testimony was refused. So if any heretic have confessed the truth, we may receive the truth and yet reject his testimony. For truth hath testimony of God his word and whether it be affirmed or denied by the devil, it is all one. The high way that you prate of, is a bye way, for the Scripture is the only high way to the truth, with the guidance of God's spirit. And yet that way which you have taken, hath so many hills and holes, woods and thickets, that you have rather flyen over it in a dream and imagination, then travailed through it in deed when you walked through the city of God, which Augustine describeth. I marvel you could not see the western Babylon, Rome, to be the city or common wealth of the devil. lib. 16. cap. 17. lib. 18. cap. 21. cap. 22. cap. 27. The mother of all abominations of the earth, which either invented or tempered of others invention that golden cup full of abominations & uncleanness of her whoredoms, with which she made drunken all the Kings of the earth. And therefore that we cannot read out of the word of God, we shall hear of Purgatory, among the Pagans, Carpocratianes, Heracleonites, and Montanistes, of whose heresies and pestilent practices, the whore of Babylon hath patched up her purgatory and sacrifices for the dead, as by and by I shall declare. In deed the envious man the devil, hath sowed these wicked sect masters. And that doctrine which is first, agreeable to Tertullian's rule is undoubtedly true, and that which is later is false. But howe shall the first doctrine be known but by the word of God, wherein all y ^e doctrine of God is taught. But by y ^e holy Scriptures, which are able to make the man of God perfect and prepared to all good works. And seeing, praying, and offering for the dead as Tertullian him self confesseth, is not taught by the Scriptures, it is no good work whereto y ^e man of God should be prepared. And for as much as you have givē me example of a syllogism in Baroco in the last chapter, I will frame you the like now. All good works are taught by the Scriptures, oblations for the dead are not taught by the Scriptures, therefore oblations for the dead are no good works. The major is S. Paul. 2. Timot. 3. The minor is Tertullian's de corona militis. Deny the conclusion if you dare.

2 Damascene your doctor, which knew the depth of Satan so well, should first have reproved that persuasion by Scripture, and then it had been easy to have found out the policy of the devil. But when we learn by Scripture, that your doctrine is contrary to the faith, and hope of Christians, it is not hard to judge, that the devil invented it, under color of charity to overthrow faith, and under show of help of mē, to dishonor God. You spend many words in vain, to prove that the first author of an opinion being found, the opinion is found to be an heresy. It shall be granted with all favor, but so that no man shall be counted the first author of an opinion, that is able to prove his opinion out of the word of God. And withal, that who so ever is not able to prove by the word of God, any opiniō that he holdeth obstinately, though he have many authors before him yet is he nevertheless an heretic.

3 If you have not a better vnderstander, then you are a rule giver, your rule is false, for though you hedge it in with many conditions, yet you leave out the chiefest, which is that the opinion itself be contrary to the truth, first preached by the Apostles, or else it is no heresy, though it may be truly fathered upon any man private or public, sooner or later. And here I muse why you put in the condition of a private man: belike if the Pope invent a new doctrine, because he is a public person that cannot err, it must not be taken for heresy. In your second rule, except you understand that the opinion of him which is withstāded, be new and of his own invention, the withstanding thereof, no not by good men, maketh it not false. They that defended that heretics should not be rebaptised, were withstood by Cyprian and all the Bishops of Africa (who were notwithstanding their error in the unity of the Church) yet were they not heretics nor their opinion heresy, because it was not of their invention but of the word of God. And whereas you affirm, that we cannot find any of those things invented by them by whom we say they were invented, though we travail until our hearts ache: I answer though you seek until your head ache & lie until you have worn your tongue to the stumpes, you shall neither find those things in the word of God, nor to have any other authors, thē y ^e writers of your own sect have named to be y ^e fathers of most of them. And that you charge us with like saucines towards your Prelates, that you use toward y ^e Jack staws of Geneva, if you had not thereby confessed yourself to be a saucy Jack, you might have given us occasiō to think no less of you. For although perhaps you count the chief teachers of that Church for Jack staws, yet the world can testify, that there is more gravity and modesty in the lightest persons of all that Church, then hath appeared of many Popes and Cardinals of your Church of Rome.

4 Now at the length cometh the author of this heresy by the testimony of Epiphanius and Augustine. But neither of them confuteth it by the Scriptures, but by the common error of their time. I could prove out of Irenaeus and Epiphanius, that the first that brought in estimation the figure of the cross & images were the Valentinians & Carpocratianes. But that is no answer to this matter, I have promised to prove that the opinion of purgatory, had the same original that the most notable heresies had. Tertullian though him self an heretic, yet truly describeth the original of heresies in his book de praescriptionibus aduersus heresies. That as true doctrine was received from Christ by the Apostles, • o heresy from the devil by Philosophers and Gentyles. Also in his book de anima he showeth that all Philosophers which granted the immortality of the soul, as Pythagoras, Empedocles, and Plato, assigned 3. places for the souls departed, heaven, hell, and a third place of purifying. Carpocrates as Irenaeus doth testify, was a great admirer of Philosophy, in so much that with the imagies which he made of Christ, he joined the imagies of Pythagoras, Plato, and Aristotle. This heretic learning out of Plato his philosophy, that men's souls must be purified after their death, invented a kind of purgatory out of the opinion of Pythagoras, and proved it out of that place of S. Matthew. Thou shalt not come forth until thou hast paid the uttermost farthing, even as the Papists do Iren. lib. 1. ca. 24. The Heracleonites as Augustine witnesseth, came yet a step more towards the Papists, for they would redeem their dead after a new manner, namely by oil, balm, water, and invocation said over their heads in the Hebrew tongue. But Montanus of whom Tertullian received his heresy, had in all pointes the opinion of the Papists. First that the Patriarchs before Christ's coming were in hell, that Abraham's bosom was in hell, or in the lower parts (as M. Allen had rather speak) that only Martyrs and perfect men are privileged, of God to go into Paradise, that all small offenses must be punished after this life, where the prison is & the uttermost farthing to be paid, witness of this is Tertullian in his book de anima. ca. de inferis, &c. vlt. an aliquid patiātur animae apud inferos, &c. His words are these, after he hath proved that souls may suffer after their death. In summa, cum carcerem illū, quod Euangeliū demōstrat inferos intelligimus, & nouissimū quadrātem modicum quod{que} delictum mora resurrectionis, illic luendū interpretamur, nemo dubitabit animā aliquid pēsare penes inferos salua resurrectionis plenitudine, per carnē quo{que}. Hoc etiā Paracletus frequētissime comēdauit, si quis sermons eius ex agnitione promissorū charismatū admiserit. To conclude, when we do understand that prison which thing the Gospel showeth, to be hell, or the lower partes, and do expound that the uttermost farthing, which is every small fault, must there be punished with delay of resurrection, no man shall doubt, but that the soul in hell doth suffer something, saving the fullness of the resurrection by the flesh also. And this the comforter hath often times commended, if any man will admit his sayings, by acknowledging of the promised gracious gifts. By the comforter he meaneth the spirit of Montanus, whose heresy he defended. And therefore it is not otherwise to be thought, but that the Montanistes upon the ground of this opinion, not content with the oblations for the dead which the Church then had by perverse emulation of the Gentiles, and yet were but oblations of thanks giving, as they could be no other for the birth days, they added also prayers for the spirits of them that, were dead, whereof Tertullian maketh mention in his books de castitate & de Monogamia, which were both written to heretics of his sect, and by those prayers laboreth to prove, that second marriages are not lawful. Also in his book de anima before named, though for another purpose, he rehearseth a miracle of a woman whom he knew of his sect (for none other he counted of the Church) which after she was dead and prepared to burial, by prayer of the Priests, at the first beginning of his prayer, she took up her hands from her sides, and held them up as they that use to pray, and when the office of burial was ended, laid them down again. This miracle I take to have been an illusion of Satan, to confirm that new opinion, that prayers profited the dead, as that also which he reporteth of hear say, of some of his sect, that when two bodies should be buried in one grave, the one lay further and made room for the other: which was no doubt a sleight of Satan, to commend the unity of heretics. And that the practice of the Church for oblations for the dead at the yearly day of their birth, were taken from the Gentiles, it appeareth by this, that Tertullian counteth them of all one origen with the oblations pro natalitijs, that is for the birth days. which Beatus Rhenanus a Papist, and a great antiquary, doth confess, affirming that by the canons of the Nicene council and other councils, which he hath seen in libraries, those oblations pro natalitijs with other superstitions, that Tertullian fathereth upon tradition of the Apostles, were abrogated. And the oblations them selves, which were at burials, marriages, & birth days, he affirmeth were money that was offered in alms, to the relief of the poor. Origen to much a Philosopher was not content with Plato his purification, but he must bring in Plato's fire also, and that he would build as the papists do, and as he had better reason then the Papists have, out of the 1. Cor. 3. but because the Apostle said, that every man's work, should be tried by fire, he thought that all men should pass through his purgatory, & at length be saved. Afterward when prayers for the dead were grown out of memoryes for the dead, which were without prayers in Origen's time, as appeareth in his words in Job. lib. 3. but kept with alms to the poor and rejoicing for their rest, about S. Augustine's time, the name of purgatory was first invented, by some mediatores and conciliatores of Origen's error, with the erroneous practice of the church. And this was a great corruption of those ancient times, that they did not always weigh what was most agreeable to the word of God, but if y ^e Gentiles or heretics had anything that seemed to have a show of piety, or charity, they would draw it into use, with such correction as they thought was sufficient. So they took the sign of the cross from the Valentinians, oblations for the days of death and birth of the Gentiles, prescript times of fasting and immeasurable extolling of sole life, in the ministers of the Church, from the Manichees, Tacianistes, and Montanistes: prayer for the dead of the Montanistes: purgatory fire of the Originestes, yea Ieronym was almost fallen into the heresy of Tertullian in condemning second marriages: yea evē the name of sacrifice which was commonly used for the celebration of the Lord's supper, they took up of the Gentiles. Finally it appeareth that the faithful in Tertullian's time, which were not of his sect, believed not that the souls of Christians departed, came into his hell or lower partes, where he maketh so many mansions, but that they were placed in heaven where Christ is, against whom he reasoneth after his brawling and taunting manner, that he useth against the Catholics libro de anima, cap. de inferis. And they that so believe, allow no prayers for the dead. Wherefore it is left that Montanus and his followers were the first that taught prayers for the dead to be profitable, because that the souls of the faithful that were not made perfect by martyrdom or other straight penance, must pay the uttermost farthing in prison, and suffer the least offenses in the lower partes, if they were not holpen with prayers. Therefore Arius was not the first that held our opinion but Montanus before him was the first that held your opinion thoroughly, against the Catholics of his time. Wherefore you are welcome home for heretics by your own rule.

5 Barnard was but a late writer to speak of, and whether those that were called in his time Apostolici, were sclaundered for denying of baptism to infantes when perhaps they denied only some of your popish ceremonies which you use, about baptism, I am not able to say, certain it is that the godly called paupers de Lugduno & Waldenses, which were about that time, were sclaundered with many detestable opinions, which it is now well known that they never did hold. But howe so ever it were, that which they affirmed of truth, must not be condemned because of that where in they erred: the Arians were the first that added unto the Symbole the article of descending into Hell: shall we think worse of that article which is true, because of there heresy which is false?

6 I may by the example of Christ answer one question with another: why was it first revealed to the Arians in council holden against Christ? that the article of his descent into hell, was meet to be added to the creed and confession of faith, which was not revealed to so many godly mē as set forth the Symbole, nor to the holy Nicene Council. Aunswere me if you can, or any Robin good fellow of your sect▪ learned or unlearned, is it any prejudice to the truth of that article? or to the right that it hath to be placed in the creed, that it was first added by the Arians? why was the truth revealed to heretics concerning rebaptisation, rather then to Cyprian and so many catholic bishops? why was it revealed to the Pelagians, that infantes might be saved without the participation of the sacrament of Christ's body and blood rather then unto S. Augustine, Innocentius bishop of Rome, and as Augustine saith all the catholic fathers of that time? which thought it was as necessary for them to receive the communion as to be baptized. If heretics should not affirm something that were true, they should never deceive any man. And sometime Satan affirmeth the truth, not because he will have it believed, but rather that proceeding out of his lying mouth it might the sooner be discredited. And therefore sometimes Arians, Pelagians, Anabaptists and such like, by the subtlety of Satan, have affirmed something that is true, either to win credit to their manifold lies, or else to drowen the credit of that truth, among so many errors.

7 That you say of our preaching to be the way to so many heresies, might have been said of the Gentiles and Jews, to the whole Church of Christians. The Gentiles continued constant, so did the Jews without schism in their errors, when the professors of Christianity were rent and torn into an hundredth sects and heresies. There were no heretics but they hated Jews, and Gentiles, as much as the true Christians, was therefore the religion of the Jews and Gentiles better then the religion of the Christians? Yea there never was since Christ any heresy, or heretic, but they agreed in many more things, with the Christians then with the Gentiles and Jews, was therefore the Christian religion false? or the Pagans and Jews superstition true? It is therefore, no d • s • redit of our doctrine, that Arians or Anabaptists of our time, either have anything of yours, or praise anything of ours. Neither our credit, scholars, nor honesty, are in danger for their errors, which they learned not of us: neither are your wit, learning, or heresy the greater, for uttering this foolish conceipte, which no more toucheth us, or defendeth you, then it carpeth the religion of Christ and maintaineth the Idolatry of the heathen. The world seeth what vain reasons you lean unto, being destitute of the word of God. An heretic held this opinion, therefore it is, false. The devil believeth there is one God, therefore shall not Christian men believe so? why would God reueile any truth to heretics? why did the Pharizees, which otherwise were heretics, defend the resurrection of the dead? This vain frothe of words, and smoke of foolish and unlearned questions, will even fall down and vanish away of it self, though it be not blown away by us. The latter end of this chapter, hath one crop of his old custom, to charge Luther with defending of Purgatory, which either was while he remained in ignorance, or else it is but a feigned fable, as many other of him and others are devised by the Papists: who as they err from the truth of God, so they delight in sclaundering of good men: but they shall not prevail, their madness is made known to all men.

CAP. XV.

1 ANd for our parte it is sufficient, that we know God in his holy word to be the first founder of our doctrine, and therefore that they lie blasphemously, which would make any heretic the author of it. And as for the authority of Councils that is alleged against us, we have shown before, that the decrees of 95. Can. of Car. the forth and second of Vase are flatly falsified, which speak not at all of oblations for the dead, but oblations of the dead, that is, such money as the departed have bequethed to the use of the poor. The 79. Can. of the forth Council of Carthage decreed, that if penitents died before absolution, they should have their memory commended with prayers and oblations. The Bracarense decree Can. 39. prescribeth how the money offered at such commemoration of the dead, should be distributed. The 34. Can. of the same Council, whereunto he pointeth us in this place, decreeth that for them that kill them selves, no commemoration should be made nor that they should be buried with Psalms. But wherefore trow you did he omit the next Canon to it? which decreeth that neither the commemoration of the holy oblation, nor the office of singing Psalms, should be bestowed upon them that were cathechised and died before they were baptized. Either he saw not the book him self, or else he misliked that phrase, the commemoration of the holy oblation, whereby the Bishops of that Council expound, what they mean, when they named the holy communion to be a sacrifice. That is, they did not take it to be so properly, but only a commemoration of the holy sacrifice of Christ. As also when we read in the old writers or councils, oblation for the dead, we must not always understand the celebration of the communion as the Papastes imagine, but that money which first was offered for alms, and afterwards superstitiously was taken to be a kind of redemption for their sins. As in the 11. Council of Toledo. cap. 12. is declared where they decree of such penitents, as died before reconciliation: Placuit nobis, vt & memoria talium in eccles • s commendetur, & oblatio pro eorum delicto a presbyteris recipiatur. It pleaseth us (say the Bishops of that Synod) that the memory of such may be commended in the Churches, and the oblation for their offense, may be taken by the priests. This office that was bestowed upon the dead, which so generally of the old writers and councils is called a memory, undoubtedly took the name of that which it first was. Namely nothing but a memory with thanks giving, which after was corrupted to a prayer for them. Lykewise the oblation (as Origen testifieth) at the first was nothing but alms to the relief of the poor, for joy of the rest of them that were departed, and for comfort and godly exercise of them that were a live. But afterward it grew to be compted a redemption for the sins of the departed, and the name of oblation was drawn further to the celebration of the communion, and to be compted a sacrifice for the quick and the dead. But before this Council, there was another Synod held in Spain at Toledo, called Toletan. 3. cap. 21. Where it was decreed, that they which by God's calling departed out of this life, should be ca • yed to their graves, only with singing of Psalms. Forbidding that funeral song which was wont to be song to the dead, and all other unseemly gestures of morning. If you say this doth not exclude prayers and oblations: they add, that it must be thought sufficient for the burial of Christian men's bodies, that the office of singing of godly Psalms is bestowed, in hope of the resurrection. And so throughout the Canon they would have men comforted by the hope of the resurrection, affirming that Christian men's bodies throughout the world ought to be no otherwise buried. As for the decree of the Council of Florence, is but a mere mockery. For it was held not past seven score years a go, when at the same time, there was another Council holden at Basel against it, in which the Pope Engenius the fourth, who gathered that mock Co • ncell of Ferraria and Florentia, was deposed, and another Pope chosen against him. So there was one Pope and his council in Italy, and another Pope with his council in Germany. Goodly gawdes for fools to play with all. As for the holy council which was held the other day at Trent, you did well to put in the margent, for it was not worthy to come in the text. If the determination of that council be so holy, why do you Papists daily break a number of canons decreed therein, which contains scarce a-shadow of reformation? But you can dispense with councils as you list. To omit all other canons, why do not your bishops and parish priests, as often as they minister the sacraments to the people, declare the effect of them to such as receive them in the mother tongue? Session. 8. c. 7.

2 It is true humility that all men should submit them selves to the authority of God's word, and it is horrible presumption, that any man or multitude of men, should take upon them authority to define against the word of God. As the council of Constance which decreeth in plain words that notwithstanding Christ instituted the sacrament to be received in both kinds, and that the faithful in the primative Church did so receive it, yet the custom of the church of Rome shall prevail, and whosoever saith contrary is an heretic, &c. The councils that are received are therefore received, because they decreed truly, and not the truth received because it was decreed in councils. Else why is Nicene council received and Arriminense rejected? why is Ephesinum primum embraced, and Ephesinum secundum detested? Finally, why is the determination of Nicene council which is but one believed, against 10. councils holden by the Arians, but that the Nicene council decreed according to the word of God, and all the rest against it? wherefor if any council decree according to the scriptures as the council of the Apostles did Acts 15. and the council of Nice with diverse other, we receive them with all humility, as the oracles of God. But if any council decree contrary to the authority of the scriptures, as many did, without all presumptiō or pride, we may justly reject them.

3 But that you love to spend many words about a thing of naught, you might have spoken as much in three words as you have done in three leaves. But that I may briefly cut of your lauesh lip labor: whereas you use in deed as great impudency as you charge us withal in words, first you would make our challenge contrary to itself, as though one while we boast of the doctors, and then being driven from them, we fly to the Scriptures. They that daily hear our preaching, & with any diligence peruse our writing, can bear us witness, that you do falsely & shamefully belie us. For we stand for authority only to the judgment of the holy Scriptures, and whatsoever we say of fathers, councils, or the most ancient primitive Church, it is either for testimony of our truth, or for conviction of your lying. For it is, you M. Allen, the Papists, that boast of all antiquity, all fathers, all doctors, all councils, all Churches, to be all together on your side, among whom as we will not deny, but you have some Patrones, of some of your errors, so will we affirm, that you have more enemies, in the greatest of your heresies. And therefore this ishue is rightly joined, and without any Ieofayle upon this point, that the Scripture is to be credited rather then the doctors, the word of God rather then the writings of men.

4 In words you grant our ishue, because you know that all the country of Christians, would otherwise go against you. but in deed you deny it. For y ^e ishue which you would join upon is both captious and doubtful. Captious, because it disioyneth those things which are not to be separated, namely the Scripture and the true meaning thereof. Doubtfull, because it standeth upon a likelihood and not upon a certeinty. For thus you join: whether the old doctors be more like to understand the Scriptures then the Protestants. I have answered before, we will make no comparison with them. Neither will we challenge the likelihood to us, neither will we leave it to them, for whether so ever we do, we shall be never the more certain of the truth. But this will we set down as a most certain principle, that no man can understand the Scriptures, but by the same spirit by which they were written. What then? shall we arrogate the spirit as proper to us and deny it to them? God forbid. They had their measure of God's spirit, & (we humbly thank his majesty) so have we. How then? is the spirit of God contrary to it self, because they and we agree not in all things? God forbid. Cyprian and Cornelius were both endued with God's spirit, and both Martyrs, yet they agreed not both in one interpretation nor judgment of the scripture. what then? there remaineth but this second principle as certain as the first. That the spirit of God hath a meaning in the scriptures, which is not to be sought out of the scriptures, in the opinions of deceivable men, but only in the scriptures, where is nothing but the spirit of truth. These 2. commandments, search the scriptures, and try the spirits: teach how to attain to certainty of truth. For the scriptures are not understood but by the spirit, and the spirits are not tried but by the scriptures. Therefore that the spirit may declare his own meaning, one place of scripture must be expounded by another. All other ordinary means and healpes, of wit, learning, knowledge of tongues, diligence in hearing, reading, and praying, are subordinate and serving to this search and trial. And who so observeth this search and trial most precisely, shall come to the knowledge of the truth most certainly. And who so ever is negligent in this search and trial, though he have otherwise never so many and excellent graces, and gifts, may easily be deceived, yea even when he thinketh he followeth the authority of the scriptures. I could allege for confirmation of this truth, the testimony of diverse of the ancient fathers, which if they had always followed that which sometimes they so highly commended, they should not so lightly have passed over some things, and other things so slenderly have maintained. But my thinks, the testimony of the Pope should be a per se with all Papists. The Pope him self in his canon law (for Caiaphas sometimes doth prophecy) hath allowed this to be the only way to expound the scriptures. Affirming that nowhere else, but even out of the scriptures themselves, the true sense of the scriptures is to be taken. Ascribed to Clemens dist. 37. cap. Relatum. Lex Dei cum legitur non secundum propriam ingenij virtutem, vel intelligentiam legatur, vel doceatur. Sunt enim multa verba in scriptures diuinis, quae possunt trahi ad eum sensum, quem sibi vnus quisque sparte praesumpserit, sed non oportet, non enim sensum extrinsecus alienū & extraneum debetis quaerere, vt quoquo modo ipsum ex s • ripturarum authoritate confirmetis, sed ex ipsis scriptures sensum capere veritatis oportet. When the law of God is read, let it not be read or tought, after the force or understanding of a man's own wit. For their be many words in the holy scriptures, which may be drawn to such sense as every man of his own head shall presume to make, but you may not do so. For you ought not to seek forth without, any forayne or strange sense, that you may confirm it by any means by authority of the scriptures, but you must take the sense of truth out of the scriptures them selves. And thus much for the true understanding of the scriptures and now to your false superstition. First I deny that any of the ancient fathers in Christ his time, or scholars to his Apostles, or within one or two hundredth years after Christ, except one that had it of Montanus the heretic, as he had more things beside, in any one word maintained your cause, for purgatory or prayers for the dead. Secondly of them that maintained prayers for the dead, the most confessed they had it not out of the scriptures, but of tradition of the Apostles and custom of the Church, therefore they are not to be compared unto us in better understanding of the scriptures, for that point, which they denied to be received of the scriptures. Thirdly those of the ancient fathers that agreed with you in any parte of your assertion (for none within four hundredth years was wholly of your error) notwithstanding many excellent gifts that they had, yet maintained other errors beside that, and about that discented one from another, and sometime the same man from him self, and that is worst of all from manifest truth of the holy Scriptures. Therefore neither is their erroneous interpretation in this matter to be received, nor M. Allens wise judgment of us to be regarded.

CAP. XVI.

1 THis chapter is but pro forma tantum to make a show of a confutation, where neither the tenth parte of our arguments are rehearsed, nor those that are named with any couller of reason, and lest of all with authority of scriptures, are confuted. First he will allow us but 4. texts of scripture, because he will not take pains to wrest anymore. And those make nothing for us except all things be in every thing as Anaxagoras said. It should seem M. Allen, that you yourself dreamed so with Anaxagoras, else would you not find purgatory in everyone of them, which we say is in none of them, but rather excluded by them all. But who can prescribe the devil a measure in lying? when he is disposed to lie? we have no scriptures at all, the Catholics have all the scriptures, and the judgment of the whole world upon them: you have said enough, M. Allen, to win the whet stone, if it were as big as any mountain in the world.

2 Before the heresy of Purgatory was planted in the world, how could the old doctors interpret these places, by name against that which they never heard named? yet have they so interpreted some of them, that their interpretation cannot stand with purgatory or prayer for the dead, as I will show in their particular answers. When we require express Scripture for every controversy, we do not require that everything should be named in Scripture, but necessarily concluded out of the true meaning of the Scriptures and purpose of the holy Ghost in them. As for the evident word of God, which you report for trial of your matter, is yet to show, and shall be forever. You shame not to boast of that to be your trial, which you dare as well eat a fagot as abide the judgment of i • , in any lawful conference or disputation: your great bellwethers and Bishops declared before y ^e whole world in the conference of Westminster, what they durst abide, when they came to handestrokes. It is a gay matter for such a chattering pye, as you are, to make a fond flourish a far of in words of common wrangling, to please your patrons and exhibitioners, it is another thing to stand to the proof in deed.

3 If we had no stronger testimonies, then these, and you no better answers then you make to these, yet should not we have so much cause to be abashed at our allegations, as you to be ashamed of your confutations. Your first answer is, that the souls of men at that time continued not where they at the first fell, but went first into the inferior partes, which you call Lymbus patrum, but neither Hezekiah nor the Gospel, knew any such place. For Hezekiah speaketh of the grave, the Gospel of that place of comfort, where the souls of the faithful are in happy estate, even where Christ is. But O learned Logitian, that answereth one controversy with another, as much controuers • d. Nay, stay a while, the article of Christ's descending into hell maketh all out of doubt. If that be so, why do we not say that Christ descended into Abraham's bosom or into Lymbus patrū, or seeing Christ said he would be in Paradise, why say we not that he descended into paradise, and seeing he commended his spirit into the hands of his father, why say we not he descended into his fathers hands. But because these be no absurdities that follow of M. Allen, & that papistical assertion, you shall hear Calvin's absurd doctrine, refuted by the said famous Clerke M. Allen with famous reasons. He will ask (for his answers be questions) what is it to be thought, of those that were raised from death to life, seeing they received their first fall. This were a pretty question for a Sophister in Oxeford to demand in their parleis. But the poor man tormenteth him self in vain, they which deny prayers to be profitable by that place of the wise man, understand the fall of the tree to the South or to the North, to be the judgment of God concerning every man, either of reward or of punishment, which cannot be altered after a man's death. This restreyneth not God from working miracles, and sending some to life again, but showeth what the ordinary state of men is after their departure. This place is of them that die & remain in death, unto the day of the general resurrection, as for the other, although they were dead, yet they were appointed to live again, they fell in deed, but to have a particular rising, but when they fell to abide the general rising, they were in the same case with the rest. But examples will make the matter clear. The soul of Lazarus was 4. days from his body, M. Allen thinketh he was not in heaven, for Christ loved him too well to bring him out of heaven: and not that only, but to reduce him to the vncerteyne state of this life. As though it were injury to Lazarus to forbear the joys of heaven, for the short time of this life, to become such a glorious example, of the majesty of Christ's power, and as though Christ, which brought him to life temporal, was not able in the incerteinty of this life, to preserve him to eternal life. O profane heathenish Sophister, of God's high mysteries. But seeing you think M. Allen he was not in heaven, where think you in your conscience he was? in hell, or in purgatory, or in Abraham's bosom? for you have store of diverse places, if he were in hell, you hold there had been no redemption. And it is not like that he whom Christ loved so well was 4. days in torment. If you say he was in Abraham's bosom, yet he was in comfort and certeinty of salvation, then by your own reason, it is not like that Christ which loved him so well, would abase his happy condition to bring him to the state of this life which is miserable and as you say vncerteyne, yea he had been better in purgatory: for you hold he should have been in certainty of salvation, but so he was not when he returned to the uncertain state of this life, the like may be said of Tabitha. But these be foolish and unlearned questions M. Allen, which the Apostle willeth us to avoid, as gendring strife rather then edificatiō. And yet when you have questioned about them all you can, you shall never prove the common case of the departed in Christ, by these few peculiar cases. For when so ever and how so ever it pleased God, that their souls remained, it was determined of God that they should be restored to their bodies. And although there souls were in heaven and in happiness, as I do not doubt but they were, yet was it no injury nor hurt unto them, to serve the glory of God. For I doubt not but as all the Godly in this life, confess it to be a parte of angelicke felicity, to be obediente to the will of God, so those that were so raised from death, so long as their second life continued, carried in their hearts, a heavenly fruition of the glory of God shining in their restitution: and of their thankful obedience, submitting them selves to the will of God. But when these matters passeth the reach of M. Allens sophystrie, as of which he can prate much, and define nothing, he falleth to another shift: that the fall into the southe, signifieth the certainty of salvation, that the elect be in, after this life, and the fall into the North, the certainty of damnation, that the wicked are in. For though the elect be in purgatory, yet they be in the favor of God, and certain of salvation. But this gloss corrupteth the text, for then they should always lie in purgatory, which is a warm south (if it be as they say) for the certeinty or vncerteinty of their salvation, is as great before they were borne, as after they be dead. It cannot be therefore that the wise man speaketh thereof. And because you crack of the exposition of the fathers, Hieronym in his commentary upon this place, expoundeth the Northe and the Southe not for the states of grace or wrath, but for the places of reward or punishment of them that die. Si dignos Austro fructus attulit in plaga iacebit Australi. Nec est aliquid lignum quod aut ad Aquilonem non sit aut ad Austrum. If it have brought forth fructes worthy of the South, it shall lie in the Southe cost. Neither is there any tree but it falleth either to the North or to the South. As for your babbling of the Sadducees sect, and doubting of the resurrection, bid your Popes and Cardinals take heed of it. Pope John the 23. was condemned for it in the Council of Constance. Epicureisme and Saduceisme is more common at Rome then Christianitye.

4 If there be but two ways in this life, there are but two abiding places after this life. If there be more then two after this life, then there be more ways then two in this life. Controll our Savior Christ's partition as imperfect, if you list. You will say, that needeth not, for purgatory after this life is that straight gate or a piece of it. what else? It is not enough for our English Anaxagoras, to exclude our opinion out of these places, but he must find purgatory in them also. This is plain to make quidlibet ex quolibet. But the commandment of Christ marreth the market of this interpretation, unless you think when Christ willeth us to strive to go in by the straight gate, that he biddeth us strive to go into purgatory.

5 And S. Ieronym with your own canon law shall answer you, that prayers prevail not after this life 13. q. 2. In praesenti, In this present world we know, that we may be helped one of another either by prayer or by council, but when we shall come before the judgment seat of Christ, neither Job nor Daniel nor Noah can entreat for any man, but every man must bear his own burden.

6 The last objection that you list to trouble your head with all, is that voice which was heard from heaven. Apoc. 14. of the blessed state of them that die in the Lord, in the meaning of which you wrest and wrigle, like a snake, that is smitten on the head, but you cannot avoid the strife. First you understand it only of Martyrs, that die in the Lord, and call Augustine to witness thereof. As I will not deny but Martyrs are specially comforted by that voice, so I will affirm, that it is to the common comfort and reward of all the faithful in Christ, who as they live in Christ so they die in Christ. And witness hereof I will not take of flesh and blood, but of the holy Ghost. Rom, 14. None of us liveth unto him self, neither doth any die unto him self, for whether we live, we live unto the Lord, and whether we die, we die unto the Lord. And the Apostle 1. Cor. 15. nameth the faithful that are a sleep in Christ, and 1. Thes. 4. them that are dead in Christ. Wherefore in despite of the devil and the Pope, this blessing appertaineth to all them that die in the Lord Jesus Christ, as true members of his body, and not to them only that shed their blood for Christ. True it is, that all they that would live godly in Christ Jesus, suffer persecution, but not all to the death, else who are those innumerable Saints that no man can number of all nations and tongues, which S. John saw, Apoc. 7. who are likewise in happy and blessed rest, without all manner, lack or hurt, hunger, thirst or heat? but when you are weary of that interpretation, you wring out another: that they in purgatory also be happy, because they be sure of salvation at last, and the rest from labors, is either the rest from sin, or else no more but joy of conscience. witness of this exposition is the canon of the Mass. The witness, the matter and he that useth it, are all of like credit. But if I might pose your conscience M. Allen, can you call that a happy rest, which is joined with such torment & misery, as you bear men in hand is in purgatory? Have you forgotten that you said yere while of Tabitha and Lazarus, that it was a benefit for them to be delivered out of purgatory into this life, and is it now a blessing to be dispatched out of this life into purgatory? And as for that which you allege out of the canon of your mass, declareth that your mass was patched together of many pieces of diverse colors. For you pray for the rest of them whom you confess to be at rest in Christ: you wish easement for them whom you affirm to sleep in peace. As though in Christ were not perfect rest, as though in peace there were torment, and this exposition you yourself are weary of also, and turn again to your former and then back again to the latter. An vnconsta • t man is vncerteyne in all his ways, yet all were little worth, if this place helped not to prove purgatory also. For the pain of purgatory is a sweet pain, a happy rest, a fatherly discipline. And yet as Augustine saith, it is but for small faults, or as you say, for great faults, that by penance are made small. And is God such a merciful father, to punish small faults so extremely in his children, whom he pardoneth of all their great and heinous sins? O blasphemous helhoundes.

CAP. XVII.

1 IT vexeth you at the very heart, that we require the authority of the holy Scriptures, to confirm your doctrine having a plain commandment out of y ^e word of God, that if any man teach otherwise then the word of God alloweth, he is to be accursed. And therefore you run to a childish kind of Sophistry to say that our argument is negative. A perlous point that almost all the Papists think them selves more then Chrisippus, or Aristoteles, when they tell us that our argument is ab authoritate negative. Alacke poor logic. All knowledge that Christian men have of heavenly things, is grounded upon the authority of God's word, therefore as it is no good logic to conclude negatively of one place or book of Scripture, this is not contained in it, therefore it is not true: so of the whole doctrine of God, wherein all truth necessary to salvation is contained, the argument is most invincible that concludeth negatively thus. All true doctrine is taught in the Scripture, purgatory is not taught in the Scripture, therefore purgatory is no true doctrine. And this conclusion M. Allen him self made of man's authority, cap. 13. purgatory and prayers for the dead were not preached against, at their first entry, ergo they are true. But of all men's authority it is false, whereas he saith we are ouerthrowers & destroyers, we confess we are so, of all false doctrine and heresy. For the word of God is appointed not only to teach truth, but also to overthrow error, not only to build faith but to destroy falsehood. But it is a proper conceit wherein he pleaseth himself, as other of his sect do, to tell us that all our faith standeth upon negatives. I could frame the Papists as wholesome a creed all vpō affirmatiues if they will receive it. This is more then boyish babbling. All truth is to be affirmed, all falsehood to be denied. Therefore it is not to be looked what is affirmative and what negative, but what is true or false that is affirmed or denied. But to run through the articles of that creed, which he hath framed for us, we truly believe that man after his fall hath not free will, no not aptness of will, to think anything that is good. 2. Cor. 3. we believe truly, that a man is not justified by works, but by faith only. Rom. 3. And yet we believe that good works are necessary to be in every man that is justified. Iac. 2. we believe that the Church is not always known to the wicked upon earth, neither the universal Church seen at all of men, because it is in heaven, Gal. 4. we believe that the catholic Church hath no chief gouerner upon earth but Christ unto whom all power is given in heaven & earth Matth. 28. we believe there are but 2. Sacraments of the new testament, baptism and the Lord's supper instituted by Christ, 1. Cor. 10. we believe that they give not grace of the work wrought but after the faith of the receiver, and according to the election of God. 1. Cor. 10. Baptism is necessary for all Christians to receive, that are not by necessity excluded from it. 1. Pet. 3. Christ is present at his Supper, but not after a gross and caparnaiticall manner, but as he was present in Manna to the fathers. 1. Cor. 10. There is no sacrifice propitiatory for our sins, but only the sacrifice of Christ's death once offered for all. Heb. 10. There is no priesthood to offer sacrifice propitiatory but only the priesthood of Christ according to the order of Melchizedek Heb. 7. The spiritual priesthood is common to all Christian men and women. 1. Pet. 1. we have an altar of which it is not lawful for them to eat, which serve the tabernacle, and other beside we have none. Heb. 13. we call not upon Saints, because we believe not in them, for how should we call upon them, in whom we believe not? Rom. 10. There is no prayer for the dead nor purgatory after this life, because they that live unto Christ die unto him and being dissolved are with him. John. 17. Christ descended into hell to redeem us out of hell, by suffering the wrath of God for our sins Heb. 5. There is no Lymbus, for the fathers were at rest with God, where they are now: whether we call the place Abraham's bosom, or paradise, or heaven Luke. 16. and 23. 2. Cor. 12. The rest which you add, may be the beginning of the Popish creed, which you may as you list continue negatively or affirmatively after this manner. God a lone knoweth not the hearts of all men. God only is not to be worshipped and served, for Saints have both the one and the other. God only is not true, for the Pope cannot err. Christ is not our only mediator and advocate, for Marie and the Saints are also. Christ's death is not a sufficient redemption for us, for we must satisfy for our selves. Christ's death hath not taken away both our sins and the punishment of them, but the Popes padon may. Christ is not only our high priest according to the order of Melchizedek, for every hedge priest is of the same order. Christ hath not made them that are sanctified perfect by a sacrifice once offered for all. For y ^• greatest part is left to the mass. Our sins are not freely forgiven us by Christ, for we must satisfy for them. A man is not justified by faith without the works of the law, for every man must merit for him self. The scriptures are not sufficient to teach us all truth, but we must have unwritten verities. The word of God is not of sovereign authority, for the decrees of the Pope and general councils be equal with it. This is the Papists creed both in the affirmative and in the negative. But in that you exhort the Papists to read Calvin's institution, and there to see whether he teacheth any truth therein: I would to God that all Papists in England would follow your counsel & pray unfeignedly that God would open there eyes, that they may see his truth if it be taught in that book.

2 What ground or confidence of things not seen and yet hoped for our faith hath, it is not for infidels to judge, no more then for blind men to judge of colors. And as for our negative argument, it is stronger then your affirmative error can abide: & there of groweth the spite. But when as you say we frame our argument, of the name of purgatory only or prayers for the dead, you follow your customable course of lying and sclaundering. And yet we may say it is a great prejudice against your purgatory and prayer, which you make so necessary, and about which no small parte of your religion is occupied, that it is not so much as once named in the scriptures. But we say, and truly say, that neither the name nor the thing it self, is taught or can be proved by y ^e scriptures, & so of all other heresies. All truth may be proved by scripture, either in plain words, or by necessary conclusion, which is all one. And therefore the Arians, or Anabaptists have no more help of this argument then you Papists. As for the perpetual virginity of the mother of Christ, as we can think it is true, so because the scripture hath not revealed it, neither pertaineth it unto us, we make no question of it. what scriptures you have alleged, and howe falsely you slander us, for denying the canonical scripture is set forth at large already.

3 To pass over your saucines and scurrility being as agreeable to your profession and levity, as unmeet for his gravity and dignity whom you name, the argument is of more force then you have wit to understand. But to beat it smaller, that it may enter into your head, or at least wise that they which have any brain in their heads, may conceive the strength of it, I will use your own figure and mode. All lawful sacrifices were prescribed by the law, sacrifice for the dead was not prescribed by the law, therefore it was no lawful sacrifice. you answer that the rehersal of sins proveth not the peculiar persons that may be burdened with those sins. And with this foolish distinction you think you have broken out of prison. But you that so like a proud fool, take upon you to help his ignorance, bewray your own intolerable arrogancy and more then beastly blindness. For if you had red the law whereof you make yourself such a Rabbi, Levite. 4. & 5.12. & 15. you should have seen the peculiar mentioning and plain rehersing of all such persons for whom sacrifice was to be offered, both men and women, the Princes and the private persons the Priest and the whole congregation, yea and special regard of the oblations of the poor. And in the particular rehearsing of diverse kind of persons, and the form of the sacrifice, named according to every particular state, it is so far of, that the dead shall be reckoned that such things are enjoined every of these particular persons to do, as it is plain that none but the living could offer, or have sacrifice offered for thē. What law was appointed touching lamenting for the dead, you may read Levite. 21. how the Priest was forbidden to lament for any, but special persons, also Nu. 19. diverse ordinances concerning the dead yet never any sacrifice or prayer for the dead. When Nadab and Abihu were slain, their father and brethren were forbidden to mourn for them, the people were permitted. By all which it appeareth, not only that no sacrifice for the dead, was offered, but that they were so separated from the living, that the Priests might have nothing to do with any of them, but in special cases. And as for your common shift of the common body of the living and the dead, helpeth you nothing, for although all the faithful make one body in Christ, yet there is one state of them that work, another of them that are judged according to their works, & to put no diversity between them, is not to make a communion but a confusion. But of all other it is a clerkely conclusion that you send M. Grindall to look upon the example of your mass, with is a sacrifice both for the quick & the dead, and thereof will prove that the old law, had but one sacrifice for the live and the dead. In deed there you were to good for him, if y ^e practice of y ^e popish church be a good president for Moses to follow in his law, we will reason no longer. But the fact of Judas Machabaeus putteth all out of doubt. Surely then the fact of every man that transgressed the law, shall be sufficient to prove what the law was and not the book of the law. For else how could he have conceived any sacrifice which he never heard of? How did David conceive the carriage of the ark in a new cart, which he never heard of? except it were of the Philistines that sent home the ark in a cart. And even so it is like, that Judas Machabaeus, if he devised not that sacrifice of his own head, yet took it by imitation of the Gentiles, whose studies and practices, your own author confesseth were more frequented in those days among the Jews, then the preaching or keeping of the law. Finally to all the other howes and whyes, I answer with one word, he had no warrant of his fact in the law of God. Neither doth S. Augustine sufficiently answer y ^e heretic that would prove by that fact, that men dying in deadly sin might be saved by sacrifice. For though they were not uncircumcised for whom Judas sent an offering, yet they died in deadly sin, and such sin, as for which they were justly slain, as your own author confesseth, for the idolatrous iewells, that they had everyone in their bosoms. Concerning the authority of that book and how it was taken by Augustine, I have answered enough before.

4 In God's name let the readers way indifferently, the doings and dealings on both partes, the cause, the truth, their salvation, the Church, and the glory of God above all things. And as they see this pointe handled, so let them judge of the rest. The truth is upholden by evident testimony of scripture, the error, by custom, practice, and judgment of men. The truth seeketh understanding of the scriptures, of the spirit of God in the scriptures, error at the mouths of mortal men. The truth resteth upon the only authority of God, error upon the maintenance of carnal devises. The truth is founded upon the doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles, the other upon Gentiles and heretics. Truth is embraced of the pure and primitive Church of Christ, error is continued from a corrupt state of the Church of Christ, unto a plain departing away into the church of Antichrist. To be short, truth is tried by the word of God, heresy by the invention of men. The holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is that which humbly obeyeth the word of God, and the Synagogue of Satan is that which arrogantly challengeth authority above the word. The true Church shall never decay but alway reign with Christ, the false Synagogue shall daily more and more decay until it be utterly destroyed with Antichrist the head thereof, and last of all be damned with the devil and his angels. And who so would make choice of a true mother Church, from a whorish Synagogue, let him compare our church with the church of Rome, the authority of our church which is the authority of God in his word, with the authority of theirs which is the opinions of men, the majesty and glory of our church which is spiritual, & the whorish outward bravery of theirs which is carnal. And where he findeth the true church, let him know that in the communion thereof, he received his second birth, and not of the place, time, person, or element, where, when, by whom, or with which he was baptized, either among them or among us.

Of the first Book.

• THe Preface, where in be noted two sortes of heretics: the one pretending virtue, the other openly professing vice. And that our time is more troubled by this second sort. With a brief note of the Authors principal intent in this Treatise. Pref. argu. pag. 10.
• [chapter 1] That often after our sins be forgiven by the sacrament of penance, there remaineth some due of temporal punishment, for the satisfying of God's justice, and some recompense of the oftensies past. 31.
• [chapter 2] The double and doubtful shifts of our adversaries pressed by this conclusion, are removed: and it is proved against one sort, that these foresaid skourgies were in deed punishments for sins remitted. And against the other sect, that this transitory pain hath often endured in the next life. 43.
• [chapter 3] That the practice of Christ's Church, in the court of binding and loosing man's sins, doth lively set forth the order of God's justice in the next life, and prove Purgatory. 65.
• [chapter 4] That the many fold works & fructes of penance, which all godly mē have charged thē selves with all, for their own sins remitted, were in respect of Purgatory pains, & for the avoiding of God's judgment temporal as well as eternal, in the next life. 74.
• [chapter 5] A brief joining in reason and argument upon the proved grounds, with the adversaries, for the declaration and proof of Purgatory. 89.
• [chapter 6] That Purgatory pains doth not only serve God's justice for the punishment of sin, but also cleanse & qualify the soul of man defiled, for the more seemly entraūce into the holy placies: with conference of certain texts of scriptures for that purpose. 92.
• [chapter 7] That there is a particular judgment and private accompt to be made at every man's departure, of his several acts and deeds, with certain of the fathers minds touching the texts of scriptures alleged before. 103.
• [chapter 8] Origen is alleged for our cause, upon whose error in a matter somewhat appertaining to our purpose, S. Augustine's judgment is more largely sought: and there with, it is declared by testimony of diverse holy authors, what sins be chiefly purged in that temporal fire. 114.
• [chapter 9] A further declaration of this point, for the better understanding of the doctors words. Wherein it is opened how Purgatory is ordained for mortal sins, and how for smaller offenses: who are like to feel that grief, and who not at all. 125.
• [chapter 10] A place alleged for Purgatory out of S. Matthew, with certain of the ancient fathers judgments upon the same. 132.
• [chapter 11] An answer to certain objections of the adversaries, moved upon the diversity of meaninges which they see given in the fathers writings, of the scriptures before alleged for Purgatory: and that this doctrine of the Church standeth not against the sufficiency of Christ's Passion. 148.
• [chapter 12] An evident and most certain demonstration of the truth of Purgatory: and the grievousness thereof, uttered by the prayers and words of the holy doctors, and by some extraordinary works of God beside. 156.
• [chapter 13] Of the nature and condition of Purgatory fire: the difference of their state that be in it, from the damned in hell: with the conclusion of this Book. 169.

THE ARGVMENTES OF THE Chapters of the seconde book.

• THe preface of this book, wherein the matter of the treatise, & the order of the authors proceeding, be briefly opened. 180
• [chapter 1] That there be certain sins, which may be forgiven in the next life, and that the deserved punishment for the same, may be eased, or utterly released, before the extreme sentence be to the utmost executed. pag. 187.
• [chapter 2] That the faithful souls in purgatory being now past the state of deserving, and not in case to help them selves, may yet receive benefit by the works of the living, to whom they be perfectly knit, as fello • members of one body. 197.
• [chapter 3] What the Church of God hath ever principally practiced for the souls departed, by the warrant of holy Scripture: with the defense of the Maccabees holy history, against the heretics of our time. 205.
• [chapter 4] That the funerals of the Patriarchs, both in the law of nature, and Moses, and Christ, had practice in them for the relief of the souls departed. 220.
• [chapter 5] Man may be relieved after his departure, either by the alms which he gave in his life time, or by that which is provided by his testament to be given after his death, or else by that alms, which other men do bestow for his souls sake, of their own goods. 238.
• [chapter 6] Of certain offerings or public alms presented to God for the deceased, in the time of the holy sacrifice, at men's burials, & other customable days of their memories: and of the sundry minds kept in the primitive Church for the departed. 266.
• [chapter 7] That the benefit of prayer & alms appertaineth not to such as die in mortal sin, though in the doubtful case of man's being, the Church useth to pray for all departed in Christ's faith. 271.
• [chapter 8] What that holy sacrifice is, which was ever counted so beneficial to the live and dead. The punishment of our sins by the he • uy loss thereof. The great hatred which the devil and all his side, hath ever borne towards Christ's eternal priesthood, and the sacrifice of the Church. And that by the said sacrifice of the Mass, the souls departed are especially relieved. 288.
• [chapter 9] That the practice of any point in religion maketh the most opē show of the fathers faith. And that all holy men have in plain words, and most godly prayers uttered their belief in our matter. 304.
• [chapter 10] That we & all nations, received this usage of praying & sacrificing for the departed, at our first conversion to Christ's faith. And that this article was not only confirmed by miracle amongst the rest, but severally by signs and wonders approved by it self. And that the Church is grown to such beauty by the fruit of this faith. 328.
• [chapter 11] That in every order or usage of celebration of the blessed Sacrament and Sacrifice, throughout the Christian world, since Christ's time, there hath ben a solemn supplicatiō for the souls departed. 347.
• [chapter 12] The heretics of our time and country, be yet further urged with the practice of prayers for the deceased, their contrary communion is compared with the old usage of celebration: • hey are ashamed of the first original of their Christian faith, they are weary of their own service, they are kept in order by the wisdom of the civil Magistrates, and are forced to refuse all the doctors. 364.
• [chapter 13] That the praying for the dead was appointed to be had in the holy sacrifice, by the Apostles commandment and prescription: And that our doctors by the majesty of their name, bear down our light adversaries. 386.
• [chapter 14] The first author of that sect which denieth prayers for the departed is noted, his good conditions and cause of his error be opened, what kind of men have been most bent in all ages to that sect. And that this heresy is ever joined as a fit compagnion to other horrible sects. 407.
• [chapter 15] Their falsehood is condemned, and the Catholic truth approved by the authority of holy Councils. Their pride in contemning, & the Catholics humility in obedient receiving the same. And a sleight whereby the heretics deceive the people, is detected. 424.
• [chapter 16] An answer to such arguments as the heretics do frame of the holy scriptures not well understanded, against the practice of God's Church, in praying for the dead, or the doctrine of Purgatory. 436.
• [chapter 17] An answer to their negative argument, with the Conclusion of the book. 448.